/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-08-25 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Aug 25 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  7. # [00:10] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7411] New: :invalid and :out-of-range shouldn't match until the user has consciously interacted with the form. Roughly, after the input fires a change event. If, say, <input required> matches :invalid immediately on pageload, it becomes basically useless. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0275.html>
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  9. # [00:40] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7411] :invalid and :out-of-range shouldn't match until the user has consciously interacted with the form. Roughly, after the input fires a change event. If, say, <input required> matches :invalid immediately on pageload, it becomes basically useless. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0276.html>
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  20. # [01:40] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Clarify the conditions under which <object> generated a nested browsing context. (whatwg r3667) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0222.html>
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  25. # [02:10] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7416] New: IDNA has not been previously used or defined. It is not an obvious term. Please expand it or reference a definition on first use. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0281.html> ** [Bug 7415] New: "The rules for parsing simple color values are as given in the following algorithm." --> "The rules for parsing simple color values are given in the following algorithm." <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/
  26. # [02:40] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: ack for last checkin; fix up editorial issues in references. (whatwg r3669) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0224.html> ** hixie: Make it clear that <small> isn't to contain blocks. (whatwg r3668) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0223.html>
  27. # [02:40] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7414] Please add a history section <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0284.html> ** [Bug 7413] Add definition of <html profile> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0283.html> ** [Bug 7412] Add definition of <meta scheme> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0282.html>
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  30. # [03:11] <pimpbot> changes: "hixie: ack for last checkin; fix up editorial issues in references. (whatwg r3669)" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0225.html>
  31. # [03:11] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7411] :invalid and :out-of-range shouldn't match until the user has consciously interacted with the form. Roughly, after the input fires a change event. If, say, <input required> matches :invalid immediately on pageload, it becomes basically useless. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0286.html> ** [Bug 7417] New: Why use radians as opposed to degrees? Does this mean I can never draw a complete circle becau
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  51. # [05:41] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7419] New: Add replaceState() — e.g. consider panning on a maps application, not all the steps should be new states for back/forward, but we do want to update the url for persistence. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0288.html> ** [Bug 7418] New: See if we can make popstate more synchronous so that when it fires, the doc is in the expected state, rather than three back-button-steps later. But consi
  52. # [05:59] <pimpbot> planet: Mozilla Project Meeting Minutes: 2009-08-24 <http://blog.mozilla.com/meeting-notes/archives/220>
  53. # [06:11] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Remove an unnecessary paragraph that people couldn't agree about. (whatwg r3671) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0227.html> ** hixie: xref fix (whatwg r3670) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0226.html>
  54. # [07:12] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7417] Why use radians as opposed to degrees? Does this mean I can never draw a complete circle because I don't have enough bits to represent 2pi? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0289.html>
  55. # [08:12] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7409] It's not clear what labeled control is in cases with > 1 control as a child of the <label> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0290.html>
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  60. # [08:42] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7414] Please add a history section <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0291.html>
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  63. # [09:12] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7421] New: azsxdcfvghjk <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0293.html> ** [Bug 7420] New: dfghjxdcfvbnm,,k sdfghjk gfdsdfgh fghj <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0292.html>
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  67. # [10:29] <anne2> hsivonen, fixed
  68. # [10:30] <anne2> MikeSmith, seeing you're online, when should the document be ready?
  69. # [10:31] <anne2> MikeSmith, in principle it is ready, but I got a request to add links for all the new elements directly to the HTML5 draft
  70. # [10:31] <MikeSmith> anne2: you have time to make changes
  71. # [10:31] <MikeSmith> doesn't need to be ready until webmaster wakes up in US/East time
  72. # [10:31] <MikeSmith> 4-5 hours from now
  73. # [10:31] <anne2> okay
  74. # [10:32] <mjs> so we publish tomorrow?
  75. # [10:32] <anne2> today
  76. # [10:32] <anne2> well, tomorrow for you I suppose :)
  77. # [10:32] <jgraham> Depends how you define tomorrow and what timezone you are in
  78. # [10:33] <anne2> tomorrow is after you go to bed and wake up again
  79. # [10:33] <jgraham> What if you don't sleep for a whole night?
  80. # [10:34] <anne2> (I should probably add a ton of clauses to that, but I won't)
  81. # [10:35] <mjs> 4-5 hours from now will be after I go to bed (though probably not after I wake up again)
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  83. # [10:36] <anne2> MikeSmith, the individual pages stay stable right?
  84. # [10:36] <anne2> e.g. if I make links like http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/semantics.html#the-section-element they'll work?
  85. # [10:36] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)
  86. # [10:37] <MikeSmith> anne2: yeah
  87. # [10:37] <MikeSmith> assuming Hixie doesn't decide to change the section titles or IDs for some reason
  88. # [10:38] <Hixie> if IDs change it's usually jgraham's or gsnedders' fault :-)
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  90. # [10:43] <pimpbot> changes: annevk: remove longdesc (hsivonen); remove duplicate entry (myakura) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0228.html>
  91. # [10:43] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7422] Add definition of <a name>" (4 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0298.html> ** [Bug 7422] New: Add definition of <a name> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0294.html>
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  97. # [11:13] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7423] New: why deprecate s, u, strike, acronym? It makes no sense. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0299.html>
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  99. # [11:43] <pimpbot> changes: annevk: put input types in spec order and linkify them <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0230.html> ** annevk: add links for the new elements; move ruby up <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0229.html>
  100. # [12:07] <hsivonen> hmm. Roy says Hixie defined URL in a way that completely inconsistent with 16 years of Web history
  101. # [12:07] <hsivonen> I can see how it's inconsistent with RFCs but how is it inconsistent with Web history?
  102. # [12:09] <MikeSmith> anne2: you have any remaining changes to make?
  103. # [12:09] * Joins: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233)
  104. # [12:10] <anne2> MikeSmith, no, nothing in particular unless something comes up
  105. # [12:10] <MikeSmith> OK
  106. # [12:12] <MikeSmith> anne2: so I'll plan to copy it over in a couple of hours, then notify webmaster it's there and we're ready to publish
  107. # [12:12] <jgraham> hsivonen: RFCs *are* Web History. We've always been at war with Eastasia.
  108. # [12:12] <anne2> OK
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  110. # [12:14] <Dashiva> More specifically, to Roy they were Web History
  111. # [12:14] * tlr is now known as tlr-bbl
  112. # [12:25] <karl> http://www.usabilitypost.com/2009/08/24/unified-set-of-styles-for-web-interfaces/
  113. # [12:25] <pimpbot> Title: Should There Be a Unified Set of Styles For Web Interfaces? Usability Post (at www.usabilitypost.com)
  114. # [12:28] <hsivonen> IIRC, one of the WAI groups has a guide for unified JS widget behaviors
  115. # [12:35] <hsivonen> hmm. public-html is younger than www-forms, and we are already far along enough that we don't need quotes of news items each time an organization uses HTML5 for something
  116. # [12:38] <anne2> we share such things on IRC
  117. # [12:39] <hsivonen> true :-)
  118. # [12:41] <hsivonen> wow. UTS22 is extreme
  119. # [12:41] <hsivonen> deleting zeros not preceded by digits
  120. # [12:43] <anne2> I hope you're not saying this in relation to some patch for it for Firefox
  121. # [12:43] <hsivonen> I'm not
  122. # [12:43] <anne2> cool, guess it needs to be nuked
  123. # [12:43] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7422] Add definition of <a name> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0300.html>
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  126. # [13:26] <Julian> It appears that currently some issue markers are missing, because the IDs have changed (I assume), example predefined-vocabularies vs predefined-vocabularies-0
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  128. # [13:34] <jgraham> Hmm. Hixie mentioned some ids changing
  129. # [13:39] <Julian> either he needs to be more careful, or we need tests, or we could consider relaxing the matching rules
  130. # [13:40] <jgraham> Julian: I'm not sure what the general solution is but if you have time to patch up the data in tracker now it would be appreciated
  131. # [13:40] <gsnedders|work> Why have the IDs changed, though?
  132. # [13:40] <jgraham> Julian: The ids are autogenerated based on the heading names or something
  133. # [13:40] <jgraham> ask gsnedders|work
  134. # [13:43] <gsnedders|work> There are two sections called "Predefined vocabularies" now…
  135. # [13:44] <gsnedders|work> So that would appear to be a spec change
  136. # [13:44] <gsnedders|work> (And not the tool breaking in some way)
  137. # [13:47] <jgraham> (If anyone has a suggestion how to warn when ids from tracker don't actually match any section, that would be appreciated too)
  138. # [13:47] <jgraham> (the command line tool will write to stderr but there is no stderr on the web)
  139. # [13:49] <gsnedders|work> (Obviously the right solution is to add stderr to HTTP)
  140. # [13:51] <Julian> I can fix the entry in the Tracker, but I'd like to understand what happened, and what we do against it happening again
  141. # [13:52] <Julian> So the IDs aren't in the source? So, if a section title changes the ID will change as well?
  142. # [13:52] <jgraham> Yes
  143. # [13:53] <Julian> That is suboptimal :-)
  144. # [13:54] <Julian> if attaching "-digit" is something that happens automatically maybe the script that adds the annotations should ignore those...
  145. # [13:54] <jgraham> Right but then it would annotate two sections, the right one and one that happened to have the same title
  146. # [13:54] <gsnedders|work> Julian: That won't work, as we have both with and without -0
  147. # [13:55] <gsnedders|work> (what jgraham said, basically)
  148. # [13:56] <jgraham> I agree that this sucks but I don't see an obvious way to solve it
  149. # [13:56] <Julian> match on both "anchor" and "anchor[-[0-9]]" ?
  150. # [13:57] <gsnedders|work> But the annotation only applies to one of those sections
  151. # [14:00] <Julian> Really? At least in this case it applies to both.
  152. # [14:01] <jgraham> There is no special reason that should be true
  153. # [14:02] <Julian> Well.
  154. # [14:02] <Julian> If the ID is generated from the title, and the title is specific enough to identify a spec section...
  155. # [14:02] <jgraham> e.g. imagine if Hixie started using "semantics" as a subheading for each element and there was an issue on the semantics of the "p" element but not on any other element
  156. # [14:02] <Julian> ...than the fact that it appears twice suggests that the issue is likely to apply both.
  157. # [14:03] <gsnedders|work> What about all the sections called "Introduction"?
  158. # [14:03] <jgraham> (I suppose anolis could generate longer but more unique headers somehow)
  159. # [14:03] <Julian> Understood, but that would make that ID obviously totally unsuited for linking from the outside
  160. # [14:04] <Julian> Having the tracker link to "introduction-123" certainly is a very bad idea if the "123" part is likely to change frequently.
  161. # [14:04] * gsnedders|work really ought to stop turning around and speaking to jgraham in the middle of an IRC conversation
  162. # [14:04] <jgraham> Why would semantics-n be inappropriate to link to?
  163. # [14:05] <jgraham> Would it make a difference if it were the-p-element-semantics
  164. # [14:05] <gsnedders|work> Assuming hard coding them is not an option, how do you reduce the number of variables?
  165. # [14:06] <jgraham> (which would be just prone to change, if not more, since there would be two content strings that could lead to it changing)
  166. # [14:06] <Julian> If the link target is not stable you better do not use it to link to it.
  167. # [14:06] <Julian> James, yes, but at least it would cause the link to be dangling (something we can detect) instead of going to the wrong section.
  168. # [14:09] <jgraham> That would be an advantage I guess
  169. # [14:12] <jgraham> I will let gsnedders|work decide what, if any, changes to makes
  170. # [14:12] * myakura finds http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-20090825/
  171. # [14:13] <myakura> so we have no multipage version this time?
  172. # [14:13] * gsnedders|work applies an SEP field
  173. # [14:14] <hsivonen> woo! the heart has beaten
  174. # [14:17] <gsnedders|work> I still don't know how something lives with a beat of 3 beats per year
  175. # [14:17] <jgraham> hsivonen: You don't happen to know if/where Hixie has tests for Window vs WindowProxy do you?
  176. # [14:18] <hsivonen> jgraham: no idea
  177. # [14:18] <jgraham> Oh well, nevermind
  178. # [14:19] * jgraham has a post from mjs on es-discuss that should be enough to reconstruct a test
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  190. # [15:41] <DanC> looks like the heart hasn't beaten yet; http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/ is still the 23 April 2009 draft
  191. # [15:41] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)
  192. # [15:43] <Julian> if it's not too late it would be good if the spec could be regenerated with the fixed issue markers for predefined-vocabularies
  193. # [15:44] <rubys> Julian: I believe that's the plan; and that Mike plans to post it today.
  194. # [15:44] <rubys> MikeSmith?
  195. # [15:45] <Julian> +1
  196. # [15:46] <rubys> (well, perhaps for values of "today" as defined by east coast us that is)
  197. # [15:46] <MikeSmith> rubys: yep, I will be sending the go-ahead to webmaster in a few minutes
  198. # [15:46] <MikeSmith> I've already moved the doc over. just the symlink needs to be set up
  199. # [15:46] <MikeSmith> and still need to copy the html-diff doc over
  200. # [15:49] <anne> Julian, I think only Hixie can gen the spec unless someone uses the fork toolchain that was set up
  201. # [15:49] <Julian> in which case it might make sense to wait until he's awake again
  202. # [15:50] <anne> MikeSmith, btw, currently the main version is the multipage version
  203. # [15:50] <anne> MikeSmith, you should probably change that
  204. # [15:52] <rubys> We should use what Hixie provides, but FYI, I've genned a document before using this: http://intertwingly.net/tmp/html5spec
  205. # [15:52] <rubys> I need to add the command to integrate the issues marker, but it is all straightforward and runs in about 15 secs on commodity hardware
  206. # [15:52] <MikeSmith> I'm not going to make the main version the single-page version
  207. # [15:54] <anne> MikeSmith, my point is that it currently is
  208. # [15:54] <anne> MikeSmith, and I notice I made a mistake in saying that :)
  209. # [15:55] <anne> MikeSmith, try loading http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-20090825/
  210. # [15:55] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)
  211. # [15:55] <MikeSmith> anne: ah, thanks
  212. # [15:55] <MikeSmith> yep
  213. # [15:55] * MikeSmith goes to add .htaccess file
  214. # [16:00] <MikeSmith> anne: fixed (thanks again)
  215. # [16:02] <pimpbot> planet: What developers want from HTML5 <http://standardssuck.org/what-devs-want-from-html5>
  216. # [16:03] <myakura> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-20090825/the-canvas-element.html anyone gets 404?
  217. # [16:05] <myakura> 404 on video.html too.
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  219. # [16:05] <Lachy> myakura, it could be a mirroring problem, or maybe the files just failed to be generated or uploaded
  220. # [16:06] <Lachy> embedded-content-0.html is missing too
  221. # [16:09] <MikeSmith> yeah, I'm on top of it
  222. # [16:09] <MikeSmith> hang on a couple of minutes
  223. # [16:09] <myakura> :)
  224. # [16:10] <MikeSmith> cvs is hanging on me
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  229. # [16:56] <DanC> do firefox/opera/safari support enterprise-style locked down config? http://www.nextgov.com/nextgov/ng_20090819_3426.php?oref=mostread
  230. # [16:56] <pimpbot> Title: USDA unit bans browsers other than Internet Explorer - Nextgov (at www.nextgov.com)
  231. # [17:02] <pimpbot> planet: Creative Collective, Service Week, Extend Firefox, Labs, AMO, Firefox, Thunderbird, and more… <http://blog.mozilla.com/about_mozilla/2009/08/25/about-mozilla/>
  232. # [17:05] <anne> DanC, at university we had managed installs of Opera and Firefox iirc
  233. # [17:06] <anne> DanC, you had to run latest versions etc. from your own private space
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  246. # [18:56] <MikeSmith> issue-51?
  247. # [18:56] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-51
  248. # [18:56] <trackbot> ISSUE-51 -- WAI-ARIA dependency on Role Attribute Module, which takes Curie values. problem for implementations? -- RAISED
  249. # [18:56] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/51
  250. # [18:56] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-51 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
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  258. # [19:31] * DanC picks up work on building a static author-view, waves to gsnedders
  259. # [19:31] * gsnedders waves back
  260. # [19:33] <DanC> hixie suggested I pick up after anolis has done its thing, so I guess I'll have to do my own --filter thingy
  261. # [19:33] <gsnedders> DanC: Running anolis n+1 times should have the same effect as running anolis n times, for all n in the set of integers, n > 0.
  262. # [19:34] <DanC> it's itempotent? nifty
  263. # [19:34] <DanC> idempotent
  264. # [19:34] <gsnedders> It should be.
  265. # [19:34] <gsnedders> (It isn't tested that much, but in theory…)
  266. # [19:35] <jgraham> The issues and filter stuff isn't idempotent
  267. # [19:35] * gsnedders grumbles
  268. # [19:35] <gsnedders> Filter stuff should be, no?
  269. # [19:35] <gsnedders> Because once it's removed .impl, trying to remove .impl again will have no effect
  270. # [19:37] <DanC> hmm... it comes out with "W3C Working Draft 25 August 2009"... should be "editors draft"
  271. # [19:38] <DanC> ugh... same for http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html
  272. # [19:38] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at dev.w3.org)
  273. # [19:40] <DanC> oh well. never mind that for now.
  274. # [19:40] * DanC feels pretty awkward about it, having dinged another WG about it pretty recently
  275. # [19:41] * gsnedders guesses Hixie just hasn't changed it back since publication
  276. # [19:42] <gsnedders> (Yeah, he hasn't touched the spec since publication)
  277. # [19:42] <DanC> oh. so it's not usually like this? good.
  278. # [19:42] <gsnedders> He changed it a few days in advanced of pub so it could be copied over, and normally changes it back in the first/second commit after publication
  279. # [19:42] <DanC> wild... there's a normative reference from HTML 5 to the cookies spec?
  280. # [19:43] <DanC> I guess from the security context stuff
  281. # [19:49] <gsnedders> DanC: But if you just do anolis --filter=.impl overview.html overview.new.html then it should work
  282. # [19:49] <DanC> yes, it seems to
  283. # [19:49] <gsnedders> (As that won't redo jgraham's stuff)
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  286. # [20:10] <DanC> hmm... now I'm confused... where does the splitter put the index file?
  287. # [20:10] * Joins: aroben (aroben@17.246.17.226)
  288. # [20:10] <DanC> and why does it spit out a bunch of CSS on stdout?
  289. # [20:11] <DanC> I'm trying to match the "This specification is available in the following formats: single page HTML, multipage HTML." format, which links to Overview.html for the single-page, and spec.html for the multipage
  290. # [20:12] * DanC hopes mentioning gsnedders and jgraham by name will prompt some help/clues
  291. # [20:12] * gsnedders doesn't know about the splitter, ask Philip
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  295. # [20:13] * DanC browses the source while hoping Philip shows up
  296. # [20:13] <gsnedders> Well, Philip's in Spain, so that may take a while
  297. # [20:18] * DanC doesn't get the fragment-links.js stuff
  298. # [20:19] <DanC> ah... it's not printing CSS stuff... it's printing diagnostics: warning: can't find target for #dom-context-2d-miterlimit
  299. # [20:21] <DanC> I wonder why I'm getting dozens of these: warning: can't find target for #dom-history-length
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  318. # [21:37] <rubys1> jgraham: I pulled (and updated and installed) the latest anolis, but I get "no such option: --annotations"
  319. # [21:37] <gsnedders> rubys1: From my repo or jgraham's?
  320. # [21:38] <rubys1> yours. :-/
  321. # [21:38] <gsnedders> rubys1: There is your problem. :)
  322. # [21:38] <rubys1> where's his?
  323. # [21:38] <gsnedders> http://hg.hoppipolla.co.uk/hgwebdir.cgi/anolis/
  324. # [21:38] <pimpbot> Title: anolis: shortlog (at hg.hoppipolla.co.uk)
  325. # [21:39] <gsnedders> (I will merge it in once jgraham says I should, and I have time)
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  328. # [21:45] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7425] New: comments hould be after the root node <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0301.html>
  329. # [21:50] <rubys1> I'm still not doing something right. Here's what I get for video: <p class="XXX"><b>Status: </b><i>Last call for comments</i></p>
  330. # [21:53] <rubys1> --annotate_w3c_issues
  331. # [22:03] <rubys1> much better
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  334. # [22:10] <rubys1> I suspect that jgraham may not have committed the latest. container.attrib["class"] = "XXX" needs to be something like container.attrib["class"] = "XXX annotation"
  335. # [22:10] <rubys1> in make_annotation in anolislib/processes/annotate.py
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  337. # [22:10] <jgraham> rubys1: Oh I might not have done
  338. # [22:12] <jgraham> rubys1: Try pulling the latest chnge
  339. # [22:13] <rubys1> yup, that did it.
  340. # [22:13] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  341. # [22:14] <rubys1> All I'm missing is the latest header with the correct CSS. Where is this kept?
  342. # [22:15] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.246.16.249)
  343. # [22:19] <rubys1> time(source || strip non html5 || anolis || splitter) == 29 secs
  344. # [22:19] <rubys1> script: http://intertwingly.net/tmp/html5spec
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  347. # [22:46] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7427] When the maxlength attribute is omitted it should return -1 like Opera and Firefox and not 0. (Alternatively it could return the maximum value like Chrome and presumably Safari do, but that seems less nice. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0303.html> ** [Bug 7427] New: When the maxlength attribute is omitted it should return -1 like Opera and Firefox and not 0. (Alternatively it could return the max
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  350. # [23:16] <pimpbot> changes: mike: updated <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0231.html>
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  355. # [23:43] <Hixie> MikeSmith: what's the story with /tr/ deployment? anything i should do to help? any markup errors i need to fix or anything?
  356. # [23:45] <plh> hum, looking at Mike's email, there is a broken fragment to an old part of XHR. He is not sure what to do
  357. # [23:45] <plh> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/XMLHttpRequest-2/Overview.html#document-pointer
  358. # [23:45] <pimpbot> Title: XMLHttpRequest Level 2 (at dev.w3.org)
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  360. # [23:49] <Hixie> oh, yeah, i haven't fixed that reference yet
  361. # [23:49] <Hixie> that will be quite a lot of work
  362. # [23:49] <Hixie> probably not worth doing for this snapshot
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  364. # [23:54] <MikeSmith> yeah, I can't see how that reference can be updated without a rewrite
  365. # [23:54] <anne> plh, MikeSmith, Hixie, it can be replaced with http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-XMLHttpRequest2-20080930/#document-pointer
  366. # [23:54] <pimpbot> Title: XMLHttpRequest Level 2 (at www.w3.org)
  367. # [23:54] <anne> which is not very useful admittedly
  368. # [23:55] <Hixie> k, done
  369. # [23:55] <Hixie> regenning now
  370. # Session Close: Wed Aug 26 00:00:00 2009

The end :)