/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-09-08 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  43. # [08:55] <MikeSmith> bug 7392
  44. # [08:55] <pimpbot> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7392 mjs@apple.com, P2, RESOLVED WONTFIX, Please use some term other than "URL" for Web Addresses
  45. # [09:00] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7392] Please use some term other than "URL" for Web Addresses <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0089.html>
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  47. # [09:30] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7392] Please use some term other than "URL" for Web Addresses" (4 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0092.html>
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  50. # [09:39] <MikeSmith> issue-56?
  51. # [09:39] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-56
  52. # [09:39] <trackbot> ISSUE-56 -- Bring "URLs" section/definition and IRI specification in alignment. -- OPEN
  53. # [09:39] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/56
  54. # [09:39] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-56 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
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  56. # [09:40] <MikeSmith> issue: Spec should use a term other than "URL" for Web Addresses
  57. # [09:40] * trackbot noticed an ISSUE. Trying to create it.
  58. # [09:40] <trackbot> Created ISSUE-78 - Spec should use a term other than "URL" for Web Addresses ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/78/edit .
  59. # [09:51] <MikeSmith> mjs: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/page.cgi?id=fields.html#resolution
  60. # [09:51] <pimpbot> Title: A Bug's Life Cycle (at www.w3.org)
  61. # [09:52] <MikeSmith> that page shows MOVED as a possible value for the Resolution field
  62. # [09:52] <MikeSmith> and says MOVED means:
  63. # [09:52] <MikeSmith> "The problem was specific to a related product whose bugs are tracked in another bug database. The bug has been moved to that database."
  64. # [09:52] <MikeSmith> which seems close enough for our purposes
  65. # [09:52] <MikeSmith> but I don't see how to actually set the resolution to MOVED
  66. # [09:53] <mjs> MikeSmith: seems ok to me, though I would just retain the original resolution for reference and add a link to the issue
  67. # [09:53] <mjs> (maybe use a keyword to indicate bugs that have been converted to tracker issues
  68. # [09:54] <Hixie> MikeSmith: it gets set to MOVED automatically when you do the move (which you can only do if both bugzilla instances are configured to expect it, iirc)
  69. # [09:54] <MikeSmith> ah, OK
  70. # [09:54] <MikeSmith> well, I can add a new Resolution value to our bugzilla
  71. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> I think I'll just do that for now
  72. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> and call it ESCALATED instead maybe
  73. # [09:55] <mjs> I would say just leave the original resolution and use a keyword to track moved bugs
  74. # [09:56] <mjs> messing with bugzilla resolutions tends to cause problems, I think parts of the code have the available resolutions hardcoded or something
  75. # [09:56] <mjs> and it's also useful to maintain a record of the original resolution
  76. # [09:56] <mjs> (to be fair I guess that is also in the history)
  77. # [09:57] <MikeSmith> mjs: OK, but I still need to figure out what final resolution to set it to in bugzilla.
  78. # [09:57] <MikeSmith> so I can do the keyword thing
  79. # [09:57] <MikeSmith> and then maybe just moved it back to WONTFIX and then finally to CLOSED
  80. # [09:57] <mjs> just leave whatever resolution it was set to before (e.g. WONTFIX or whatever)
  81. # [09:58] <MikeSmith> OK
  82. # [09:58] <mjs> but please don't move it to CLOSED while the issue is pending
  83. # [09:58] <MikeSmith> OK, sorry, I see what you're saying now.
  84. # [09:58] * MikeSmith blames it on jetlag
  85. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> mjs: suggestion for the keyword? ESCALATED? or TRACKER maybe?
  86. # [09:59] <mjs> InTracker or TrackedAsIssue or Issue
  87. # [09:59] <mjs> (sorry if that was too many options)
  88. # [10:00] <mjs> or TrackerIssue
  89. # [10:00] <mjs> (I'm not entirely with-it myself, still fighting off this flu)
  90. # [10:00] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7392] Please use some term other than "URL" for Web Addresses" (5 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0093.html>
  91. # [10:01] <MikeSmith> OK, TrackerIssue seems fine
  92. # [10:02] <MikeSmith> doing it with a keyword is good because that will cause a notification to get sent to the list also
  93. # [10:03] <mjs> excellent
  94. # [10:04] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: AFAIK, MOVED is for moving stuff from bugzilla.mozilla.org to Bugscape.
  95. # [10:05] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: so you probably need to use the feature for moving bugs between bugzillas to set a bug to MOVED
  96. # [10:05] * hsivonen wonders who'd end up looking silly if the WHATWG spec used "URL" and the W3C spec used "Web Address"
  97. # [10:07] <hsivonen> it would just take another Anolis feature
  98. # [10:07] <Hixie> i'd just do it as a regexp in my preprocessor
  99. # [10:07] <Hixie> i already do a bunch of regexps to generate the w3c version
  100. # [10:07] <Hixie> i guess after html5 goes to LC i could rewrite the uri/iri specs to be sane
  101. # [10:08] <Hixie> there's a lot of work to do there
  102. # [10:08] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: thanks for the info about MOVED. so based on what you and Hixie and mjs said, I'll just ignore MOVED and we'll do this TrackerIssue keyword thing instead
  103. # [10:08] <Hixie> which the people who currently claim responsibility for those specs don't even think needs doing
  104. # [10:09] <Hixie> (like making scheme registration dramatically easier -- at least half the schemes in use aren't registered)
  105. # [10:31] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7392] Please use some term other than "URL" for Web Addresses" (6 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0094.html>
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  120. # [11:31] <rubys> hsivonen: thanks for deploying to validator.nu!
  121. # [11:33] <hsivonen> rubys: btw, it would be nice for JITting and future localization to push the note() calls down to ErrorReportingTokenizer the way the err() calls have been pushed down
  122. # [11:34] <rubys> I couldn't figure out the pattern as to which were pushed down, so initially I simply pushed down note itself.
  123. # [11:34] <rubys> you don't think that would be good enough for modern JITs?
  124. # [11:35] <hsivonen> rubys: it probably doesn't matter for JITting as long as you aren't doing any string concatenation in the error messages
  125. # [11:36] <hsivonen> rubys: and no, I haven't examined JIT output dumps to verify anything
  126. # [11:37] <hsivonen> rubys: the pattern is supposed to be that every error message in the tokenizer has a unique empty method and a real impl in the subclass
  127. # [11:37] <hsivonen> rubys: the tree builder isn't done yet
  128. # [11:37] <hsivonen> (gotta go to lunch before my lunch place closes)
  129. # [11:40] <rubys> hsivonen: (this can wait) err is called 3 times in Tokenizer.java.
  130. # [11:49] <rubys> hsivonen: Error:
  131. # [11:49] <rubys> Element “datagrid” from namespace “http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml” not allowed in this context. (The parent was element “body” from namespace “http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml”.) Suppressing further errors from this subtree.
  132. # [11:49] <rubys> File: file:/home/rubys/svn/checker/syntax/relaxng/tests/html5full-xhtml/valid/001.xhtml
  133. # [11:49] <rubys> Line: 6 Col: 10
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  135. # [11:51] <rubys> hsivonen: committed change moving calls to note() to ErrorReportingTokenizer. Also removed definition of note() itself from Tokenizer.java.
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  138. # [12:46] <hsivonen> rubys: let's consider the 3 calls to err bugs
  139. # [12:47] <hsivonen> rubys: deleted the datagrid test case
  140. # [12:48] <hsivonen> rubys: thanks for pushing down the note stuff
  141. # [12:48] <hsivonen> I'll update the C++ translator accordingly
  142. # [12:48] <hsivonen> actually, no need to
  143. # [12:49] <hsivonen> my previous update already dealt with this pattern, since I copy-pasted the check for warn
  144. # [13:07] <hsivonen> rubys: 14:01 < annevk3> hsivonen, did someone already file a bug that the selected profile is reset in the UI after validating?
  145. # [13:12] <hsivonen> rubys: filed as http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=644
  146. # [13:12] <pimpbot> Title: Bug 644 Parser profile setting doesn't round trip and doesn't get trimmed when default (at bugzilla.validator.nu)
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  150. # [14:02] <rubys> hsivonen: ok round trip is something I understand... but what's this about trimming?
  151. # [14:06] <hsivonen> rubys: there's JS that makes the URLs less crufty by omitting query parameters for form inputs set to default
  152. # [14:06] <annevk> disabling the form control if it's the default value
  153. # [14:06] <hsivonen> rubys: by disabling controls selectively in onsubmit
  154. # [14:21] * rubys wonders why script isn't done via a relative URI
  155. # [14:28] <rubys> 644 is resolved fixed... the script changes haven't been tested
  156. # [14:29] <hsivonen> rubys: the servlet doesn't deal with static data
  157. # [14:29] <hsivonen> rubys: thanks
  158. # [14:30] <annevk> you could still make it relative in the form "//about.validator.nu/icon.png"
  159. # [14:30] <annevk> though nobody does that
  160. # [14:30] <rubys> I was thinking more about local/offline installation
  161. # [14:31] <hsivonen> rubys: I've thought about caching it in RAM, generating a hash-based super-cacheable URL and stuff, but I never got around to it
  162. # [14:32] <rubys> agreed that is it is low priority. Made me wonder for a bit why my changes weren't working though... :-)
  163. # [14:32] <hsivonen> that way, there could be /script/HASH.js where HASH would be computed from script content
  164. # [14:32] <hsivonen> and everything else under /script/ would redirect to /script/HASH.js
  165. # [14:32] <hsivonen> and /script/HASH.js would be cacheable forever
  166. # [14:33] <rubys> Rails does it simpler: script.js?HASH
  167. # [14:33] <rubys> server always serves up the latest
  168. # [14:33] <hsivonen> how is that simpler?
  169. # [14:33] <hsivonen> seems just a syntactic transform of /script/HASH.js
  170. # [14:34] <rubys> always serve up the latest and tell the clients and intermediaries to cache it forever. script.js can be served statically using Apache.
  171. # [14:35] <hsivonen> rubys: what if there are clients out there that try to fetch with a stale HASH? what redirects them to the latest?
  172. # [14:35] <hsivonen> rubys: or does the script end up transferred twice to such clients?
  173. # [14:35] <hsivonen> once with stale URL and later with the refreshed URL?
  174. # [14:36] <rubys> always serve the latest. The page containing the form contains the HASH. Yes, there is no way to explicitly get an old version, but that's not a terribly interesting use case.
  175. # [14:37] <hsivonen> rubys: I uploade the script
  176. # [14:38] <hsivonen> rubys: I meant the case where a client out there has an old cached copy of the page
  177. # [14:38] <rubys> that old cached copy will no longer be referenced by newer pages.
  178. # [14:39] <rubys> in this case, when the user fetches validator.nu, it will reference a different URL, which will be fetched, and the latest script will be returned. Eventually the old version will drop from the cache.
  179. # [14:40] <hsivonen> I concede that it's not particularly interesting, but it seems to me that my setup doesn't transfer the script twice in a race condition that arises if the script changes after the page has been generated but after the client fetches the script
  180. # [14:40] <rubys> No server logic at all, except for the one place where the script name is put into the form.
  181. # [14:40] <hsivonen> my postulated setup that is--not the current actual setup
  182. # [14:40] <rubys> typically users fetch the page, and then notice the script tag. I don't know of any clairvoyant browsers out there.
  183. # [14:41] <hsivonen> 1) fetch page, get old link to script
  184. # [14:41] <hsivonen> 2) script changes
  185. # [14:41] <hsivonen> 3) fetch old script URL, get new script
  186. # [14:41] <hsivonen> 4) fetch page again, get new link
  187. # [14:42] <hsivonen> 5) fetch new URL, get new script data second time
  188. # [14:42] <hsivonen> of course this isn't important
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  190. # [14:42] <rubys> the alternative is to maintain the last 'n' copies of the script on the server.
  191. # [14:43] <hsivonen> rubys: or to do the redirect so that at step #3 the client is redirected to the new URL and at step #5 the client gets Not Modiefied
  192. # [14:43] <hsivonen> or rather, doesn't issue a GET at all at step #5
  193. # [14:44] <annevk> premature optimization?
  194. # [14:44] <hsivonen> annevk: totally
  195. # [14:45] <annevk> glad you realize, happy coding then :)
  196. # [14:46] <rubys> hsivonen: how often do you tend to update validator.nu?
  197. # [14:46] <rubys> ... by that I mean push changes out to the server?
  198. # [14:46] <hsivonen> rubys: there's no systematic pace
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  200. # [15:32] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 6496] [blocked on aria] Allow <img aria-labelledby> to act as a caption <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0096.html> ** [Bug 7542] New: Remove Section 5. Microdata <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0095.html>
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  212. # [17:32] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7545] New: Atom (RFC 4287) defines a "logo" in addition to the "icon": "The image SHOULD have an aspect ratio of 2 (horizontal) to 1 (vertical)". Consider doing the same here. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0099.html> ** [Bug 7544] New: Atom (RFC 4287) further specifies that "The image SHOULD have an aspect ratio of one (horizontal) to one (vertical) and SHOULD be suitable for presentation at a small si
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  222. # [20:03] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7508] <dialog> needs a way to add non-speech related information <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0100.html>
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  224. # [20:39] <MikeSmith> action-96?
  225. # [20:39] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-96
  226. # [20:39] <trackbot> ACTION-96 -- Henri Sivonen to to ensure editor removes Origin header: from spec -- due 2009-09-09 -- OPEN
  227. # [20:39] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/96
  228. # [20:39] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-96 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  229. # [20:40] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: action 96 is on you and due date for it has come up. (you changed the due date a couple months ago)
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  231. # [20:41] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: seems like it can be closed at this point
  232. # [20:43] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I'm ok with closing if you are
  233. # [20:45] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK. I'm actually not sure why we were keeping it open. But anyway, during the telcon I will suggest closing it
  234. # [20:46] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: Zakim picked me as a "victim". I don't want to track it.
  235. # [20:46] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: understood
  236. # [20:47] <MikeSmith> though maybe we need to get somebody else to take another action on it. I guess the issue now is that there are people who have objected to any mention of Origin in the spec at all
  237. # [20:47] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: anyway, I'll add a note to the issue with a copy/paste of our IRC conversation here
  238. # [20:48] <rubys1> is origin still in the spec?
  239. # [20:48] <MikeSmith> rubys1: yeah, though it's not really defined in the spec
  240. # [20:49] * Joins: laplink (link@193.157.66.7)
  241. # [20:49] <rubys1> then to me there still is work to be done (be it a bug or an issue, I care not)
  242. # [20:49] <MikeSmith> the current spec just says in a couple places, "Send a header named Origin with the following contents"
  243. # [20:49] <rubys1> I don't believe that origin is the current name, nor do I believe the IETF is comfortable with the idea.
  244. # [20:49] <MikeSmith> rubys1: well, then it seems somebody other than hsivonen will need to take an action on it
  245. # [20:49] <rubys1> demote it to raised
  246. # [20:50] <MikeSmith> rubys1: I was just talking about action 96. but if you want to issue moved to raised, I can do that too
  247. # [20:51] <rubys1> ah, I was confused. closing action 96 is fine with me.
  248. # [20:51] <MikeSmith> ok
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  257. # [21:48] <MikeSmith> I really wish people would avoid using words like "disastrous" in bug/issue reports
  258. # [21:49] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: What a disastrous bug report, using such a word.
  259. # [21:58] <MikeSmith> the text of the bug report is fine, really
  260. # [21:59] * Quits: laplink (link@193.157.66.7) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  261. # [22:00] * MikeSmith considers changing the bug description but decides that getting some sleep is probably a bigger priority at the moment
  262. # [22:01] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.)
  263. # [22:04] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7546] New: "HTML 5" Editor's draft misnamed and disastrous for HTML content-authors unless refactored into HTML (main) and DOM API (appendix). <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0101.html>
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  277. # Session Close: Wed Sep 09 00:00:00 2009

The end :)