/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-09-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Sep 22 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  10. # [00:48] <pimpbot> planet: Different perspectives in the Web standards community, part 2 <http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1253571952&count=1> ** What browsers support html 5 websocket? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1252829/what-browsers-support-html-5-websocket>
  11. # [00:50] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Add replaceState() to let people update the state without adding billions of entries to the session history (whatwg r3933) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0185.html>
  12. # [00:50] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7425] comments hould be after the root node <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0576.html> ** [Bug 7419] Add replaceState() — e.g. consider panning on a maps application, not all the steps should be new states for back/forward, but we do want to update the url for persistence. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0575.html>
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  15. # [01:20] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Update impl annotations. (whatwg r3938) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0190.html> ** hixie: Remove introductory text for something that never happens ambiguously and so isn't needed. (whatwg r3937) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0189.html> ** hixie: typo (whatwg r3936) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0188.html> ** hixie: Make
  16. # [01:20] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7445] editorial: This section becomes a subsection of "the xhtml syntax" in the author edition. Maybe either move this section somewhere else or keep the "Rendering" and "Interaction with CSS" headings outside class=impl" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0590.html> ** [Bug 7444] EUC-JP and ISO-2022-JP also need replacement encodings: CP51932 (or eucJP-ms) and CP50221. <http://li
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  18. # [01:48] <pimpbot> planet: Amperbbreviations <http://adactio.com/journal/1612/>
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  20. # [01:50] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: XML documents can't have syntax errors, only documents 'labeled as XML' can have syntax errors. (whatwg r3944) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0196.html> ** hixie: Clarify how to send 'codebase' to a plugin now. (whatwg r3940) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0195.html> ** hixie: What collection? That made no sense. (browsing context's session history definition) (wha
  21. # [01:50] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7470] JimJJewett gmail: The implications of these tables should also appear at element level -- e.g, td model or dom should mention aria- -- unless it is explicitly not exposed, for some reason. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0606.html> ** [Bug 7465] "a IDL attribute" -> "an IDL attribute" (here and elsewhere) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0605.html> ** [Bug 7
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  25. # [02:20] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Clarify that profile='' took multiple tokens. (whatwg r3948) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0200.html> ** hixie: Clarify what I meant by 'an ID /key/'. (whatwg r3947) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0199.html> ** hixie: Mention ARIA in table of contents, for easier scanning. (whatwg r3946) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0198.html>
  26. # [02:20] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7487] An internal general parsed entity is not XML namespace-well-formed in the general case, since a fragment can have text and multiple elements at the top level" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0619.html> ** [Bug 7485] obsolete permitted DOCTYPEs link is broken in author view <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0617.html> ** "[Bug 7484] hea
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  29. # [02:50] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: If you move a node from an HTML doc to an XML doc, you can create nodes with names you otherwise could not. So we have to handle that case also. (whatwg r3951) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0203.html> ** hixie: Gotta make sure that the element itself has no declarations otherwise who knows what that actually means... (whatwg r3950) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0202.h
  30. # [02:50] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7488] "These are the only ways to make a DOM unserializable." - this is not correct so long as DOM Core allows nodes to be moved from an HTML document to an XML document without serializability checking" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0621.html>
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  32. # [03:21] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: typo (whatwg r3953) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0205.html> ** hixie: Try to clarify fallback entries. It's not entirely clear that I did an acceptable job here, but it's a start. (whatwg r3952) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0204.html>
  33. # [03:21] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7501] Change "The value must be a short free-form string THAT giving the name of the Web application that the page represents." It should read- "The value must be a short free-form string giving the name of the Web application that the page represents."" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0630.html> ** [Bug 7497] Add an example to <aside> that shows it being used to hold a blogroll.
  34. # [03:51] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Try to clarify <footer>. (whatwg r3954) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0206.html>
  35. # [03:51] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7503] there is no specification for detection of this feature. how do i know whether to use draggable="true" or revert to a drag simulation library like scriptaculous? - jkwon.work@gmail.com" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0636.html> ** [Bug 7681] link tag: rel: associate pages about the same person across many sites <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/20
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  37. # [04:21] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7682] link tag: rel: associate pages about the same organization across many sites <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0637.html>
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  40. # [06:21] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: More xreffing. (whatwg r3955) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0207.html>
  41. # [06:21] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7504] Occurrences of the terms "Raw text elements", "RCDATA elements", "Foreign elements" and "Normal elements" in the prose of this section should link to their definitions in the definition list above." (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0639.html>
  42. # [08:22] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7599] Either drop the two places that set the "Origin" HTTP header, or update HTML5 to match the Sec-From/Origin I-D (if the latter is stable enough yet). <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0640.html>
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  47. # [09:22] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7484] head/@profile holds a white-space separated list of URIs <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0642.html> ** [Bug 7059] Forking XPath <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0641.html>
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  51. # [09:52] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7694] New: object@classid is missing from list of Content attributes, even though it is essential <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0647.html> ** [Bug 6853] restore meta keywords, search engines use them <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0646.html> ** [Bug 6606] generic 3rd-party <mark>, Smart Tags, and Accelerators prevention <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/
  52. # [10:22] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 6853] restore meta keywords, search engines use them <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0648.html>
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  56. # [10:52] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7506] Clarify that the warning about "The presence of an obsolete permitted DOCTYPE" only applies to HTML, not XHTML which has no restriction on what DOCTYPEs may be used <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0652.html> ** [Bug 7484] head/@profile holds a white-space separated list of URIs <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0651.html> ** [Bug 6853] restore meta keywords,
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  59. # [11:22] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Add a note about how namespaces aren't supported. (whatwg r3956) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0208.html>
  60. # [11:22] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7682] link tag: rel: associate pages about the same organization across many sites <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0657.html> ** [Bug 7681] link tag: rel: associate pages about the same person across many sites <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0656.html> ** "[Bug 7510] Allow elements beyond just HTML, MathML, and SVG into SVG element" (2 messages in thread) <ht
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  63. # [11:53] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Tidy up the content models section. (whatwg r3958) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0210.html> ** hixie: Make the implicit submission mechanism validate the form. (whatwg r3957) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0209.html>
  64. # [11:53] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7519] Should rephrase "All the elements in this specification have a defined content model, which describes what nodes are allowed inside the elements, and thus what the structure of an HTML document or fragment must look like." to more explicitly say that HTML <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0663.html> ** [Bug 7697] New: The type attribute should ammend the Accept header accordingly. HTTP spec is in acc
  65. # [12:23] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Bring the authoring section in line with the parsing section for allowed character references. (whatwg r3961) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0213.html> ** hixie: Add <math> to the same categories as <svg> for consistency. (whatwg r3960) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0212.html> ** hixie: input 'applies' summary table cleanup. (whatwg r3959) <http://lists.w3.org/
  66. # [12:23] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7526] spelling: Before this task is run, *sa* part of the event loop mechanism, the rendering will have been updated to resize the video element if appropriate. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0670.html> ** "[Bug 7524] The list of forbidden Unicode characters in the authoring requirements does not match the list that generates parse errors in #tokenizing-character-references" (2 messages in thread) <h
  67. # [12:53] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: xref (whatwg r3965) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0217.html> ** hixie: Remove redundant paragraph in the 'scope' section. (whatwg r3964) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0216.html> ** hixie: Mention that the permitted DOCTYPEs thing only applies to text/html. (whatwg r3963) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0215.html> ** hixie: U
  68. # [12:53] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7559] What happens when an "option" element has its "selected" attribute removed? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0686.html> ** "[Bug 7558] "MIME type" not xreffed in "and any MIME type ending ..."" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0685.html> ** [Bug 7555] "The scope of this specification does not include documenting every HTML or DOM featur
  69. # [13:23] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Say what the infinite attributes on <embed> are for. (whatwg r3968) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0220.html> ** hixie: Try to clarify what is meant regarding the newline eaten at the front of <pre>s. (whatwg r3967) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0219.html> ** hixie: More tweaks to the profile='' attribute. (whatwg r3966) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/pub
  70. # [13:23] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7593] Use of the "q.v." abbreviation here, while correct, is fairly obscure. Consider dropping "q.v." or rephrasing. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0705.html> ** [Bug 7590] The sentence about HTMLUnknownElement should s/this specification/this specification (or other appliciable specifications)/ to allow delta specs to define HTML elements <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/200
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  74. # [13:51] <pimpbot> planet: Standards.Next: cognition and accessibility <http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2009/standards-next-cognition-and-accessibility/> ** Gmail Mobile team talks Latency and Code Loading <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/uu-OKkTVpZ8/gmail-mobile-latency>
  75. # [13:53] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Remove redundant text in document interfaces requirement. (whatwg r3975) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0227.html> ** hixie: Apparently CSS is now immune to HTML vs XML differences. (whatwg r3974) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0226.html> ** hixie: xref (whatwg r3973) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0225.html> ** hixie: typo (
  76. # [13:53] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7687] Use "representation" instead of "resource" in §6.9 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0726.html> ** [Bug 7693] The term "Draft Standard" means something different in IETF than meant here, which adds to the confusion. "Editor's Draft" would be better. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0725.html> ** [Bug 7697] The type attribute should ammend the Accept header ac
  77. # [14:23] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7622] "There has got to be a better way of doing this, surely." - is there an intent to rewrite this before last call? is there implementor interest? is it considered for removal? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0727.html>
  78. # [14:44] <anne> It might be good to put out a reminder for http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/2009-11-f2f/ if there's still a plan on using that
  79. # [14:45] <anne> krijnh, would it be possible to give pimpbot a distinctive look in the logs?
  80. # [14:45] <anne> krijnh, so it's easier to filter out
  81. # [14:46] <hsivonen> anne: you could use a bookmarklet that triggers on _a=pimpbot
  82. # [14:47] <hsivonen> krijnh: shouldn't that be data-a? :-)
  83. # [14:51] <pimpbot> planet: Introduction to HTML 5 <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/w7woPI4XEdw/introduction-to-html-5>
  84. # [14:53] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7697] The type attribute should ammend the Accept header accordingly. HTTP spec is in accordance with the rules here, in terms of the Accept header being non-authorative. script and style elements already ammend accept header (in firefox) but not for other link <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0730.html> ** [Bug 7542] Remove Section 5. Microdata <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla
  85. # [15:23] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7539] Since @summary is an official part of the table element, it is no longer obsolete. Suffienct warning language exists in it's definition that this entry should be removed <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0732.html> ** [Bug 7510] Allow elements beyond just HTML, MathML, and SVG into SVG element <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0731.html>
  86. # [15:50] <Dashiva> If my anesthesiologist uses RDFa to adjust my dose, I'm moving to a different hospital
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  88. # [16:24] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7687] Use "representation" instead of "resource" in §6.9 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0733.html>
  89. # [16:35] <Philip> I'd be worried if the medical system hadn't standardised on kilograms, and relied on dynamic typing of all weight values to avoid mistakes
  90. # [16:36] <Dashiva> Is it just me, or is completely unrealistic example uses rather common?
  91. # [16:38] <Philip> Maybe realistic examples are too complex and require too much background information to be easily conveyed in a reasonable-length email
  92. # [16:40] <Dashiva> I'm reading this book where AI has taken over analytical stuff like math and stats, so humans no longer study it. And then when a problem appears that's very fuzzy, the AI can't handle it and the humans have forgotten how
  93. # [16:42] <Philip> Sounds like the opposite of Anathem, where there's a whole religion developed to make sure humanity doesn't forget how to do maths and science
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  102. # [18:52] <pimpbot> planet: Canvas Animation Kit Experiment... ...how to clear the canvas? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1417614/canvas-animation-kit-experiment-how-to-clear-the-canvas>
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  104. # [18:54] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7510] Allow elements beyond just HTML, MathML, and SVG into SVG element" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0737.html> ** [Bug 7682] link tag: rel: associate pages about the same organization across many sites <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0735.html> ** [Bug 7681] link tag: rel: associate pages about the same person across many sites <ht
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  107. # [19:46] <drunknbass_work> can someone help me with a few questions with canvas context?
  108. # [19:46] <Philip> Quite possibly
  109. # [19:46] <drunknbass_work> im trying to make a simple game engine and have objects that act as 'views'
  110. # [19:47] <drunknbass_work> and also objects that act as 'layers'
  111. # [19:47] <drunknbass_work> similar to cocoa nsview/uiview and calayers
  112. # [19:47] <drunknbass_work> basically a view object can have sub layers, and a layer object can have sublayers
  113. # [19:48] <drunknbass_work> oops view can have subviews*
  114. # [19:48] <drunknbass_work> follow me so far?
  115. # [19:49] <Philip> Hmm, not really
  116. # [19:49] <Philip> (I have no idea what Cocoa views are)
  117. # [19:50] <drunknbass_work> its just to manage groups of objects that are getting rendered
  118. # [19:50] <Philip> Ah
  119. # [19:50] <drunknbass_work> if you dont make an object or a view or layer it wont get rendered in the canvas redraw
  120. # [19:50] <Philip> What's the difference between views and layers?
  121. # [19:50] <drunknbass_work> the main canvas will automatically have a view added at init
  122. # [19:50] <drunknbass_work> views have much more overhead
  123. # [19:51] <drunknbass_work> but basically a view is noting but a container without its layer
  124. # [19:51] <drunknbass_work> its layer is where the context lives
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  126. # [19:52] <drunknbass_work> right now my 'layer' object could have the same properties, but over time the layer is going to stay lightweight and view will be more bloaty
  127. # [19:52] <Philip> Hmm, sort of almost makes sense
  128. # [19:52] <drunknbass_work> like if something responds to touch, it needs to be a view, etc
  129. # [19:52] <drunknbass_work> layer is basically just a lightweight context to draw
  130. # [19:53] <drunknbass_work> but my question is. i want to kind of make things optimized, so say i have a layer, and it has 10 sublayers(array)
  131. # [19:54] <drunknbass_work> i want to render all these 10 sublayers to a context and save it to that layers context property
  132. # [19:54] <drunknbass_work> and that wouldnt get re rendered until something changed, like one of those layers was moved outside of the group. or the alpha was changed
  133. # [19:54] <drunknbass_work> make sense?
  134. # [19:55] <drunknbass_work> so basically that group of 10 layers has the overhead of redrawing 1 ctx on each redraw, not having to re render the stack of layers per redraw
  135. # [19:57] <Philip> Sounds like you ought to be able to do that simply by drawing those layers onto a new hidden canvas, and then draw that canvas back in a single call whenever you need it
  136. # [19:58] <drunknbass_work> thats what i was wondering about
  137. # [19:58] <drunknbass_work> are there any docs on creating an offscreen context for rendering into?
  138. # [19:58] <Philip> (though that probably only works if either there's no semi-transparency (and no funny composite modes), or you're always drawing those layers onto a black (or transparent) background, or something like that)
  139. # [19:59] <Philip> Just do "var c = document.createElement('canvas'); c.width = 256; c.height = 256; c.getContext('2d')"
  140. # [19:59] <drunknbass_work> i already have a main canvas tho
  141. # [19:59] <Philip> You can create as many as you want
  142. # [20:00] <drunknbass_work> ok
  143. # [20:00] <drunknbass_work> so manybe i should just create one beforehand and leave it so i dont have to use the dom and make one each time
  144. # [20:00] <Philip> (There's no way to have multipled contexts on a single canvas, but you can just have multiple canvases)
  145. # [20:00] <drunknbass_work> i can just clear it when im done'
  146. # [20:01] <drunknbass_work> my question is when you save a context are you saving the pixel data? or a pointer to that context?
  147. # [20:01] <Philip> Creating a new canvas element should be a cheap operation (compared to all the drawing), so you shouldn't need to worry too much about optimising it
  148. # [20:02] <drunknbass_work> bcause if i redraw into this context later i dont want to currupt that ctx i saved on a previous draw
  149. # [20:02] <Philip> Depends what you mean by "save a context"
  150. # [20:03] <drunknbass_work> if i take 10 images, and render them to a context of an offscreen canvas
  151. # [20:03] <Philip> If you use drawImage to draw one canvas onto another canvas's context, then it copies the pixels and they will never change even if you change the first canvas's pixels
  152. # [20:03] <drunknbass_work> and save that to a property of one of my layers or whataver
  153. # [20:04] * Parts: rubys1 (rubys@65.190.139.141)
  154. # [20:04] <drunknbass_work> but that offscreen context will be used to draw into by everything when i need to composite a view/layer
  155. # [20:04] <drunknbass_work> so what i save out of it at the end needs to stay how it was
  156. # [20:04] <Philip> You can save a reference to the context (with normal JS variable assignment), but that's just a reference and not a clone of all its pixels
  157. # [20:05] <drunknbass_work> thats where im confused how to go about it
  158. # [20:05] <Philip> so you have to create a new off-screen canvas (with its own new context) if you want to do some more off-screen drawing without disturbing the first off-screen canvas
  159. # [20:05] <drunknbass_work> that is obviously important i can retrieve the pixels after i render all the stuff
  160. # [20:05] <drunknbass_work> so every layer/view i have is going to have its own offscreen context to draw into?
  161. # [20:06] <drunknbass_work> canvas*
  162. # [20:06] <drunknbass_work> that seems like way too much overhead
  163. # [20:06] <Philip> Every layer/view that you want to cache all of its pixel data will have to have its own offscreen canvas
  164. # [20:07] <drunknbass_work> there is no way to copy the pixels?
  165. # [20:07] <drunknbass_work> this is targeting mobile platforms im afraid that wont work well
  166. # [20:07] <Philip> You copy the pixels by creating an offscreen canvas and copying the pixels onto it :-)
  167. # [20:07] <Philip> You have to store the pixels *somewhere*, and a canvas is the most efficient place to store them
  168. # [20:08] <Philip> and if that's too inefficient, you have to stop storing all those pixels
  169. # [20:09] <drunknbass_work> hmm.
  170. # [20:09] <drunknbass_work> ok i will have to try it out i guess
  171. # [20:10] * Joins: webben (benh@82.152.36.121)
  172. # [20:11] <Philip> (Storing pixels on a canvas will use 4 bytes of memory per pixel, plus a tiny overhead for the canvas element itself)
  173. # [20:11] <Philip> (It's also possible to use getImageData to get an array of pixels, which is probably either 4 bytes per pixel or dozens of bytes per pixel depending on the implementation)
  174. # [20:12] <Philip> (and there's toDataURL to get a base64-encoded PNG version of the pixels, whose size depends on the compression, but you have to stick it into an Image before you can use it and then it'll probably use 4 bytes per pixel)
  175. # [20:13] <Philip> (So just using a canvas is the most efficient approach)
  176. # [20:14] <drunknbass_work> ok cool
  177. # [20:14] <drunknbass_work> thx
  178. # [20:14] <drunknbass_work> just to be clear, there isnt something like this already available right?
  179. # [20:14] <drunknbass_work> like a pure html 5 animation and rendering library?
  180. # [20:15] <Philip> The only one I know of is http://glimr.rubyforge.org/cake/canvas.html
  181. # [20:15] <Philip> but I've never used it myself
  182. # [20:15] <Philip> and there might be others I'm unaware of
  183. # [20:15] <drunknbass_work> k
  184. # [20:16] * Joins: webben_ (benh@217.12.15.52)
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  186. # [20:22] <drunknbass_work> looks cool
  187. # [20:38] <drunknbass_work> ahh i hate how non oo js is
  188. # [20:39] <jgraham> Nah javascript is pretty infinite
  189. # [20:39] <jgraham> At least the web has an ininite amount of javascript
  190. # [20:40] <jgraham> That gives the impression of having been writtn by an infinite number of monkeys
  191. # [20:40] <Philip> In many cases I don't think it's just an impression
  192. # [20:42] * jgraham considers making some serious point about object orientation in javascript, but decides it isn't worth the bother
  193. # [20:42] <Philip> Serious points are rarely worth the bother
  194. # [20:43] <drunknbass_work> i try and use this code that i picked up (still learning js)
  195. # [20:43] <drunknbass_work> and it uses all prototypes
  196. # [20:43] <Philip> In fact, the word "serious" comes from the Latin phrase meaning "not worth the bother"
  197. # [20:43] <drunknbass_work> but it seems to be making my life more difficult using that style
  198. # [20:45] <jgraham> drunknbass_work: It takes some getting used to. I don't have a strong opinion on whether it is good or bad
  199. # [20:46] <jgraham> Although I think javascript has a worse prototype system than other prototype-based languages
  200. # [20:46] <drunknbass_work> well my objects need references outside of their scope and i dont see a way to do that
  201. # [20:46] <jgraham> What do you mean "references outside of their scope"?
  202. # [20:47] <drunknbass_work> like create instance of object A, which inside needs to create an object B
  203. # [20:47] <drunknbass_work> http://pastie.org/626318
  204. # [20:47] <pimpbot> Title: #626318 - Pastie (at pastie.org)
  205. # [20:48] <jgraham> function a() {this.b = new b()}; funcion b() {}; a()
  206. # [20:49] <jgraham> am I missing something?
  207. # [20:49] <jgraham> new a()
  208. # [20:49] <jgraham> rather than just a();
  209. # [20:49] <drunknbass_work> i dont want function b to be inside of a
  210. # [20:49] <drunknbass_work> because i want b to be an object also
  211. # [20:49] <drunknbass_work> which doesnt have to be creatd by a or part of a at all
  212. # [20:49] <drunknbass_work> and wouldprefer no to call it by a.b
  213. # [20:51] <jgraham> function A() {var this_b = b;}; function B() {}; var b = new B(); var a = new A();
  214. # [20:51] <jgraham> I feel like I am missing something...
  215. # [20:52] <drunknbass_work> prototypes?
  216. # [20:52] <drunknbass_work> in my pastie it doesnt work using them
  217. # [20:53] <jgraham> Right, you don't need to init the prototype yourself
  218. # [20:53] <jgraham> Can you post a simpler example that doesn't work?
  219. # [20:53] <drunknbass_work> that example doesnt work
  220. # [20:53] <drunknbass_work> this.CreateCanvasLayer() fails
  221. # [20:55] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7546] "HTML 5" Editor's draft misnamed and suboptimal for HTML content authors unless refactored into HTML (main) and DOM API (appendix). <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0738.html>
  222. # [20:58] <jgraham> drunknbass_work: I don't understand why CreateCanvasLayer would be on ASCanvasManager.prototype
  223. # [20:58] <drunknbass_work> because i put it there?
  224. # [20:59] <drunknbass_work> when i create that object it needs to have another object as part of it?
  225. # [20:59] <drunknbass_work> another object that can be created outside of that function
  226. # [20:59] <jgraham> It is confusing because you would expect the this object to be an ASCanvasManager instance but actually it will be an instance of the CreateCanvasLayer object
  227. # [21:00] <jgraham> or rther s/an instance of/ it's constructor will be/
  228. # [21:00] <jgraham> or whatever
  229. # [21:00] <drunknbass_work> yea
  230. # [21:00] <drunknbass_work> maybe i am using prototypes wrong
  231. # [21:07] <jgraham> drunknbass_work: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/240 might be somehing like what you want
  232. # [21:07] <pimpbot> Title: Live DOM Viewer (at software.hixie.ch)
  233. # [21:09] <drunknbass_work> whats that
  234. # [21:12] <jgraham> The code at the top is a simplification of your pastie code but written in a different way
  235. # [21:12] <jgraham> The log output is at the bottom
  236. # [21:13] <jgraham> Most of the stuff in the middle is irrelevant for our purposes
  237. # [21:13] <jgraham> (But I made it copy the code to the rendered view to make it easier to read)
  238. # [21:18] <drunknbass_work> oh
  239. # [21:25] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7471] JimJJewett gmail: Make explicit reasons for *not* exposing aspect ratio/clipping. (Security vs simplification). Deals with http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/2007/12/SMIL-AudioVideoControlConcepts.html#L2398 note1 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0740.html> ** [Bug 7470] JimJJewett gmail: The implications of these tables should also appear at element level -- e.g, td model or dom should mention aria- -- u
  240. # [21:44] <drunknbass_work> ok i have an object with its own canvas and context2d
  241. # [21:44] <drunknbass_work> and how can i draw that objects context in my main draw loop?
  242. # [21:44] <drunknbass_work> i know drawImage() but thats all
  243. # [21:53] <pimpbot> planet: Introducing Google Chrome Frame <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blogspot/Dcni/~3/TnHTr9Tv5CM/introducing-google-chrome-frame.html> ** Introducing Google Chrome Frame <http://blog.chromium.org/2009/09/introducing-google-chrome-frame.html>
  244. # [21:55] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7473] JimJJewett gmail: Mention explicitly that the mapping for foreign content -- including adopted MathML or SVG -- is left to those working groups. (Otherwise, I would have expected some strong native semantics for math to math) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0741.html>
  245. # [21:59] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  246. # [22:13] * Joins: taf2 (taf2@38.99.201.242)
  247. # [22:20] <drunknbass_work> i dont get it
  248. # [22:20] <drunknbass_work> i create a canvas but i cant reference it?
  249. # [22:20] <drunknbass_work> i get a type error
  250. # [22:21] <drunknbass_work> but if i try to reference my regular can vas im ok
  251. # [22:27] <jgraham> drunknbass_work: Demo (on the live DOM viewer for preference)
  252. # [22:27] <jgraham> ?
  253. # [22:29] <drunknbass_work> what i mean is
  254. # [22:29] <drunknbass_work> if i create a canvas element in my object creation function, if i try and reference it later i get type error
  255. # [22:29] <drunknbass_work> if i pre create it in html it works
  256. # [22:30] <drunknbass_work> this.canvas = document.createElement('CANVAS');
  257. # [22:30] <drunknbass_work> this.canvas.id = 'test';
  258. # [22:30] <drunknbass_work> is that not how to set the id?
  259. # [22:32] <Philip> You shouldn't need to set the id
  260. # [22:32] <jgraham> drunknbass_work: Executable testcases are much easier to work with
  261. # [22:32] <Philip> Just assign the canvas to a variable and reference it that way
  262. # [22:32] <jgraham> (also, what Philip said)
  263. # [22:33] <drunknbass_work> i need to draw and the only way i know of to draw that objects canvas is like this..
  264. # [22:33] <drunknbass_work> this.context2D.drawImage(document.getElementById(this.canvasView.layer.canvas.id),50,50);
  265. # [22:34] <drunknbass_work> or even hardcoding it i still get a type error unless the canvas was already aded to the html
  266. # [22:34] <Philip> drawImage(this.canvasView.layer.canvas, 50, 50)
  267. # [22:35] <drunknbass_work> nice!
  268. # [22:35] <drunknbass_work> thx dude
  269. # [22:53] <pimpbot> planet: Chromie <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/09/22/Chromie>
  270. # [22:55] * drunknbass_work is now known as drunknbass_work|a
  271. # [23:25] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7471] JimJJewett gmail: Make explicit reasons for *not* exposing aspect ratio/clipping. (Security vs simplification). Deals with http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/2007/12/SMIL-AudioVideoControlConcepts.html#L2398 note1 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0750.html> ** [Bug 7470] JimJJewett gmail: The implications of these tables should also appear at element level -- e.g, td model or dom should mention aria- -- u
  272. # [23:28] * Quits: drunknbass_work|a (aaron@71.107.253.243) (Quit: Leaving...)
  273. # [23:36] * Quits: taf2 (taf2@38.99.201.242) (Quit: taf2)
  274. # [23:40] * Quits: plh (plh@128.30.52.28) (Quit: always accept cookies)
  275. # [23:55] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Mention that MathML and SVG semantics are defined in their relevant specs. (whatwg r3976) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0228.html>
  276. # [23:55] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7510] Allow elements beyond just HTML, MathML, and SVG into SVG element <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0756.html> ** [Bug 7542] Remove Section 5. Microdata <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0755.html> ** [Bug 7510] Allow elements beyond just HTML, MathML, and SVG into SVG element <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0754.html> *
  277. # Session Close: Wed Sep 23 00:00:00 2009

The end :)