/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-09-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Sep 24 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  5. # [00:32] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7715] New: Tests not archived <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0792.html>
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  11. # [01:32] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7670] Use of prefixes is too complicated for a Web technology" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0794.html>
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  13. # [02:00] <pimpbot> planet: Chromie <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/09/22/Chromie>
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  16. # [02:32] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7715] Tests not archived <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0795.html>
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  21. # [04:02] <pimpbot> planet: Canvas Animation Kit Experiment... ...how to clear the canvas? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1417614/canvas-animation-kit-experiment-how-to-clear-the-canvas> ** Chromie Don't Play That <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/09/23/Chromie-Dont-Play-That>
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  35. # [06:03] <pimpbot> planet: jimray - More technical details about Google Chrome Frame <http://jimray.tumblr.com/post/194793633/more-technical-details-about-google-chrome-frame>
  36. # [06:04] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmithX@mcclure.w3.org)
  37. # [06:33] <pimpbot> planet: Video Introduction to HTML 5 <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blogspot/Dcni/~3/repQ8bpvMCA/video-introduction-to-html-5.html> ** Status update, week 38, 2009 <http://feeds.limi.net/~r/limi/~3/6w1vmUnTHw0/status-update-week-38-2009> ** Introducing Google Chrome Frame <http://blog.chromium.org/2009/09/introducing-google-chrome-frame.html> ** Chromie <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/09/22/Chromie> ** Introducing Google Ch
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  44. # [07:59] <MikeSmith> http://omocha.w3.org/wiki/newformat
  45. # [07:59] <pimpbot> Title: Cross browser test format proposal [Web Browser Test Framework] (at omocha.w3.org)
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  48. # [09:34] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7704] It is better to implement canvas.clear() method and allow to resize canvas without clearing it <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0796.html>
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  51. # [09:50] <MikeSmith> issue: Offline Web Applications section should use the term "representation" instead of "resource"
  52. # [09:50] * trackbot noticed an ISSUE. Trying to create it.
  53. # [09:50] <trackbot> Created ISSUE-81 - Offline Web Applications section should use the term "representation" instead of "resource" ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/81/edit .
  54. # [09:50] <MikeSmith> bug 7687
  55. # [09:50] <MikeSmith> bug 7687?
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  57. # [09:53] <MikeSmith> issue-81: escalated from http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7687
  58. # [09:53] * trackbot attempting to add a note to ISSUE-81.
  59. # [09:53] <trackbot> ISSUE-81 Offline Web Applications section should use the term "representation" instead of "resource" notes added
  60. # [09:53] <pimpbot> Title: Bug 7687 Use "representation" instead of "resource" in 6.9 (at www.w3.org)
  61. # [10:04] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7687] Use "representation" instead of "resource" in �6.9 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0801.html> ** [Bug 7688] 'input type=time' forbids legitimate use case <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0800.html> ** [Bug 7689] Cache-defeating semantics are not defined <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0799.html> ** [Bug 7690] In
  62. # [10:06] <MikeSmith> issue-55?
  63. # [10:06] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-55
  64. # [10:06] <trackbot> ISSUE-55 -- head/@profile missing, but used in other specifications/formats -- OPEN
  65. # [10:06] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/55
  66. # [10:07] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-55 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
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  70. # [10:30] <MikeSmith> issue-76?
  71. # [10:30] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-76
  72. # [10:30] <trackbot> ISSUE-76 -- Concerns about Microdata section and inclusion/exclusion of RDFa -- OPEN
  73. # [10:30] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/76
  74. # [10:30] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-76 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  75. # [10:33] <MikeSmith> issue-76: see also the discussion at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7542
  76. # [10:33] * trackbot attempting to add a note to ISSUE-76.
  77. # [10:33] <trackbot> ISSUE-76 Concerns about Microdata section and inclusion/exclusion of RDFa notes added
  78. # [10:33] <pimpbot> 7542: shelleyp@burningbird.net, P2, REOPENED, Remove Section 5. Microdata
  79. # [10:34] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7512] suggested "replacement" for head/@profile does not work" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0803.html>
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  81. # [11:02] <MikeSmith> action-137?
  82. # [11:02] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-137
  83. # [11:02] <trackbot> ACTION-137 -- Larry Masinter to update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), -- due 2009-09-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  84. # [11:02] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/137
  85. # [11:02] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-137 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  86. # [11:04] <MikeSmith> action-137: Larry announced an update to the IRIbis draft: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0854.html and http://larry.masinter.net/iribis-hack.html
  87. # [11:04] * trackbot attempting to add comment notes to ACTION-137.
  88. # [11:04] <trackbot> ACTION-137 Update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), notes added
  89. # [11:04] <pimpbot> Title: proposed update to IRI document posted from Larry Masinter on 2009-09-21 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  90. # [11:04] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Tweaks to handling of bad characters. (whatwg r3982) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0234.html>
  91. # [11:04] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7687] Use "representation" instead of "resource" in �6.9 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0806.html> ** "[Bug 7542] Remove Section 5. Microdata" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0805.html>
  92. # [11:05] <MikeSmith> issue-56: Larry posted an updated IRIbis draft: http://larry.masinter.net/iribis-hack.html
  93. # [11:05] * trackbot attempting to add a note to ISSUE-56.
  94. # [11:05] <trackbot> ISSUE-56 Bring "URLs" section/definition and IRI specification in alignment. notes added
  95. # [11:05] <pimpbot> Title: Internationalized Resource Identifiers (IRIs) (at larry.masinter.net)
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  97. # [11:27] <Philip> jgraham: Re #whatwg: I guess "b" means REVERSE and "h" means PRECEDING, but I don't quite see how that makes any sense at all
  98. # [11:28] * Philip wonders if he's missing some obvious encoding scheme
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  105. # [12:04] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Explain ABNF. (whatwg r3986) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0238.html> ** hixie: Move note to before the examples so it isn't sandwiched (whatwg r3985) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0237.html> ** hixie: Change the media events xrefs so that other occurrences of 'load', 'error', etc, don't xref to the media section. (whatwg r3984) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/P
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  111. # [12:35] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Show that you don't need to put <nav> in <header>. (whatwg r3987) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0240.html> ** hixie: More clarifications, editorial fixes, example fixes, etc. (whatwg r3988) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0239.html>
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  114. # [13:05] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7717] New: If the user does not give permission it is not stated explicitly what will happen. It would be nice if the specification did state that the algorithm will be terminated at that point. (Should an event be dispatched?) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0807.html>
  115. # [13:35] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7718] New: "If a Document or image was generated from a data: URL that was returned as the location of an HTTP redirect" ... "If a Document or image was obtained in some other manner (e.g. ... a data: URL returned as the location of an HTTP redirect ...)" - the last <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0808.html>
  116. # [13:35] <pimpbot> planet: Chromie Don’t Play That <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/09/23/Chromie-Dont-Play-That>
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  123. # [16:09] * Topic is 'Pursuing conformance solutions for the N-body gravitational system known as "the Web", and in general, collectively performing various acts of unparalleled hubris (This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/)'
  124. # [16:09] * Set by MikeSmith on Thu Jun 18 07:02:08
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  134. # [16:36] <DanC_lap> are there enough hooks to build a mozilla extension to say "treat this as text/plain"? sorta like the charset "treat this as big5" menu?
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  136. # [16:38] <hsivonen> DanC_lap: dunno, but someone figured out a way to view application/json but I don't remember what the trick was
  137. # [16:38] <DanC_lap> pointer? (or search keywords to help me find it?)
  138. # [16:39] <hsivonen> no pointer or keywords at hand. sorry
  139. # [16:39] <DanC_lap> oh. http://brh.numbera.com/blog/2009/02/24/jsonview-view-json-documents-in-firefox/
  140. # [16:39] <pimpbot> Title: JSONView View JSON documents in Firefox Blog | BRH.numbera.com (at brh.numbera.com)
  141. # [16:40] <DanC_lap> "What this means is that I created a new component that tells Firefox “I know how to translate documents of type application/json into HTML”."
  142. # [16:43] * Philip wonders if anyone happens to know if/how it's possible to construct a SPARQL ASK query that tests if the graph is equal to some specified set of triples (rather than just if it's a superset)
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  145. # [16:48] <anne> julian, hey, you there?
  146. # [16:50] <julian> Hi Anne.
  147. # [16:51] <anne> julian, I have a HTTP header question; if I define a header that has a U+0020-separated list of tokens; is there something I need to say about trailing and leading whitespace?
  148. # [16:51] <anne> or will they be trimmed due to how header/value works in HTTP
  149. # [16:52] <julian> the way it's supposed to work, and will be defined in httpbis, is:
  150. # [16:52] <julian> trailing (after the header name) and leading whitespace is not part of the actual header value
  151. # [16:52] <julian> let me check
  152. # [16:53] <julian> http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging-latest.html#header.fields
  153. # [16:53] <pimpbot> Title: HTTP/1.1, part 1: URIs, Connections, and Message Parsing (at greenbytes.de)
  154. # [16:53] <julian> "A field value MAY be preceded by optional whitespace (OWS); a single SP is preferred. The field value does not include any leading or trailing white space: OWS occurring before the first non-whitespace character of the field value or after the last non-whitespace character of the field value is ignored and SHOULD be removed without changing the meaning of the header field."
  155. # [16:53] <anne> (I also wonder on any normalization on the value itself; e.g. if an author includes multiple spaces will they as multiple spaces)
  156. # [16:53] <julian> that would be specific to the header value
  157. # [16:54] <anne> cool
  158. # [16:54] <julian> a generic message parser wouldn't be expected to peek into it
  159. # [16:54] <anne> why not MUST be removed btw?
  160. # [16:55] <julian> actually, that part doesn't really make sense, be it MUST or SHOULD
  161. # [16:55] <anne> hmm yeah
  162. # [16:55] <julian> I mean "without changing the meaning of the header field"
  163. # [16:55] <julian> it CAN be removed without changing the meaning
  164. # [16:56] <anne> removing it doesn't really matter either way if it's not part of the value
  165. # [16:56] <julian> and the header syntax MUST be defined such as trailing OWS doesn't affect the meaning
  166. # [16:56] <anne> when is httpbis planned to go final?
  167. # [16:56] <julian> but what we really want is that's it's not part of the field-value
  168. # [16:57] <anne> initially I thought it was going to be a 1-year effort, but it seems to take much longer
  169. # [16:57] <julian> so it MUST be removed before applying header-specific parsing
  170. # [16:57] <julian> I'll try to find out why Roy made it say SHOULD
  171. # [16:58] <anne> i'll go on and assume they're not part of the value
  172. # [16:58] <anne> if they can be in some cases after all I guess I'll clean it up then
  173. # [16:59] <julian> Actually in -07 it says "may"
  174. # [16:59] <julian> yes
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  176. # [17:03] <julian> I just sent email
  177. # [17:03] <julian> The spec really shouldn't require a specific way to handle this, what it needs to make clear is that parsing MAY strip this whitespace, so the syntax of a header can not rely on its presence
  178. # [17:05] <hsivonen> julian: surely the handling should be specific in the black-box sense
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  180. # [17:07] <julian> "The field value does not include any leading or trailing white space"
  181. # [17:07] <julian> " header-field = field-name ":" OWS [ field-value ] OWS"
  182. # [17:08] <hsivonen> julian: shouldn't the processing model then specifically say that leading and trailing WS must be stripped?
  183. # [17:08] <julian> stripped before doiing what?
  184. # [17:09] <hsivonen> julian: before doing higher-level processing on the field value
  185. # [17:09] <anne> hsivonen, I think the intent is that proxies etc. may fiddle with the whitespace but are not required to
  186. # [17:09] <julian> the spec doesn't define how the recipient works internally
  187. # [17:09] <julian> on purpose
  188. # [17:09] <hsivonen> julian: do you mean HTTP doesn't have a normative processing model?
  189. # [17:09] <julian> what's important is how this affects the semantics of the message
  190. # [17:09] <hsivonen> uh oh.
  191. # [17:10] <julian> it's simply irrelevant *when* the insignificant whitespace is removed
  192. # [17:11] <julian> what's important is what's part of the field-value, and what is not
  193. # [17:11] <hsivonen> julian: that'd flow from requiring black-box equivalence with a normative processing model
  194. # [17:11] <hsivonen> "that" being "when"
  195. # [17:12] <julian> it's simply not necessary
  196. # [17:13] <hsivonen> is existing level of interop excellent?
  197. # [17:13] <hsivonen> on points where a normative processing model could have helped?
  198. # [17:13] * masinter is at tag meeting, don't think i can call into HTML-WG
  199. # [17:14] <masinter> it's during lunch break but the phone situation isn't great
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  202. # [17:15] <julian> henri, could you be more specific? are you suggesting that there *is* an interop problem with respect to this?
  203. # [17:15] <hsivonen> julian: I'm not suggesting. I'm asking.
  204. # [17:17] <julian> I'm not aware of an interop problem in this area.
  205. # [17:17] <hsivonen> ok
  206. # [17:18] <anne> masinter, and one should eat during lunch :)
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  217. # [17:56] * kliehm_ is now known as kliehm
  218. # [17:56] * Joins: rubys (rubys@65.190.139.141)
  219. # [17:57] * Joins: Eliot_Graff (EGraff@131.107.0.103)
  220. # [17:58] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
  221. # [17:58] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  222. # [17:59] <Eliot_Graff> zakim, Microsoft is me
  223. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Eliot_Graff; got it
  224. # [17:59] * Joins: cardona507 (carloscard@67.180.160.250)
  225. # [17:59] * Joins: paulc (836b0068@128.30.52.43)
  226. # [17:59] <Zakim> +carlos
  227. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  228. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Sam
  229. # [18:00] <Zakim> +??P32
  230. # [18:00] <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
  231. # [18:00] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  232. # [18:00] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  233. # [18:00] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/24-html-wg-irc
  234. # [18:00] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  235. # [18:00] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  236. # [18:00] <Zakim> +Matt
  237. # [18:00] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
  238. # [18:00] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  239. # [18:00] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  240. # [18:00] <trackbot> Date: 24 September 2009
  241. # [18:00] * Joins: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30)
  242. # [18:00] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  243. # [18:00] <Zakim> +jerryEzrol
  244. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  245. # [18:01] <paulc> PaulC just joined.
  246. # [18:01] <kliehm> zakim, p32 is me
  247. # [18:01] <Zakim> sorry, kliehm, I do not recognize a party named 'p32'
  248. # [18:01] <Zakim> +Radhika_Roy
  249. # [18:01] <kliehm> zakim, ??P32 is me
  250. # [18:01] <Zakim> +kliehm; got it
  251. # [18:01] <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
  252. # [18:01] <kliehm> zakim, mute me
  253. # [18:01] <Zakim> kliehm should now be muted
  254. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.503.712.aaaa
  255. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.251.280.aabb
  256. # [18:01] <anne> Zakim, passcode?
  257. # [18:01] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
  258. # [18:01] <julian> Zakim, +1.251.280.aabb is me
  259. # [18:01] <Zakim> +julian; got it
  260. # [18:02] <Zakim> +laura
  261. # [18:02] <Zakim> +msporny
  262. # [18:02] <Zakim> +Radhika_Roy
  263. # [18:02] * MichaelC zakim, call cooper-mit
  264. # [18:02] * Zakim ok, MichaelC; the call is being made
  265. # [18:02] <Zakim> +Cooper
  266. # [18:03] <Zakim> -msporny
  267. # [18:03] * anne wonders why he is recognized as msporny
  268. # [18:03] * kliehm zakim, who is on the phone?
  269. # [18:03] * Zakim sees on the phone: Eliot_Graff, carlos, Cynthia_Shelly, Sam, kliehm (muted), Matt, jerryEzrol, [Microsoft], +1.503.712.aaaa, julian, laura, Radhika_Roy, Cooper
  270. # [18:04] * hsivonen same SkypeOut gateway?
  271. # [18:04] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.203.14.157)
  272. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P16
  273. # [18:04] <anne> Zakim, ??P16 is me
  274. # [18:04] <Zakim> +anne; got it
  275. # [18:04] * hsivonen that was to anne
  276. # [18:04] * Joins: dtran (chatzilla@134.134.139.71)
  277. # [18:04] <paulc> zakim, pick a scribe
  278. # [18:04] <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose laura
  279. # [18:04] * anne guess so
  280. # [18:04] * anne fixed now
  281. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Rich
  282. # [18:05] * Joins: richardschwerdtfe (RichS@99.39.114.91)
  283. # [18:05] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  284. # [18:05] <anne> scribe: anne
  285. # [18:05] <mjs> hi all
  286. # [18:05] * rubys if we go over the 45 minute mark, I'll take over scribing
  287. # [18:05] * anne ta
  288. # [18:05] * gsnedders considers phoning in, then realizes he has no clue about what has happened in the past month in the wg
  289. # [18:05] * Joins: adrianba (adrianba@131.107.0.74)
  290. # [18:05] <julian> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
  291. # [18:05] <pimpbot> Title: Input for Agenda Planning for the HTML Weekly - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  292. # [18:06] <anne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009JulSep/0044.html
  293. # [18:06] <paulc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0908.html
  294. # [18:06] <pimpbot> Title: Agenda for HTML WG telcon 2009-09-24 - CfCs, Accessibility TF, Testing TF, etc. from Paul Cotton on 2009-09-22 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  295. # [18:06] <pimpbot> Title: FW: Agenda for HTML WG telcon 2009-09-24 - CfCs, Accessibility TF, Testing TF, etc. from Paul Cotton on 2009-09-22 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  296. # [18:06] <anne> Topic: Agenda
  297. # [18:06] <anne> PC: comments on the agenda? missed actions/items?
  298. # [18:06] <anne> PC: lets assume this is ok
  299. # [18:07] <paulc> Topic ISSUE-35/ACTION-138: Produce a matrix based on Henri's work [Steve Faulkner]
  300. # [18:07] <anne> RS: I had one item about drag and drop
  301. # [18:07] <anne> RS: I want to raise an issue on it
  302. # [18:07] <anne> RS: can be put at the end
  303. # [18:07] <anne> LC: I have a procedural question about summary=""; can be put in the end
  304. # [18:08] <anne> PC: I will deal with those as item 9 and move adjourn to 10
  305. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  306. # [18:08] <anne> PC: anything else?
  307. # [18:08] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
  308. # [18:08] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  309. # [18:08] * masinter is in TAG meeting and not paying attention, but will probably be able to do so in about 10 minutes
  310. # [18:08] <Zakim> +Mike
  311. # [18:08] <adrianba> zakim, microsoft.a is adrianba
  312. # [18:08] <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
  313. # [18:08] <anne> Topic: ACTION-138 -- produce a matrix based on HS' work
  314. # [18:09] <anne> LC: about two weeks ago Steve did a pass on that, discussed it, and has since then not have time to work on it; it will be discussed again the week after next
  315. # [18:09] <anne> PC: lets move the action to October 8
  316. # [18:09] <paulc> change due date to oct 8
  317. # [18:09] <anne> LC: sounds good
  318. # [18:09] <MikeSmith> action-138 due 2009-10-08
  319. # [18:09] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-138.
  320. # [18:09] <trackbot> ACTION-138 Produce a matrix based on Henri's work due date now 2009-10-08
  321. # [18:09] <paulc> Topic ACTION-143: Get co-chairs to bring forward a concrete proposal for a testing task force (including scope) [Paul Cotton]
  322. # [18:10] <anne> Topic: ACTION-143 -- on PC; testing task force
  323. # [18:10] <anne> ACTION-143?
  324. # [18:10] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-143
  325. # [18:10] <trackbot> ACTION-143 -- Paul Cotton to get co-chairs to bring forward a concrete proposal for a testing task force (including scope) -- due 2009-09-17 -- OPEN
  326. # [18:10] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/143
  327. # [18:10] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-143 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  328. # [18:10] <paulc> Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0687.html
  329. # [18:10] <pimpbot> Title: RE: HTML WG Testing Task Force from Paul Cotton on 2009-09-17 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  330. # [18:10] <anne> PC: so far we have seen positive items; it seems that creating a TF is acceptable to everyone
  331. # [18:10] <anne> PC: what we need now is a volunteer to get things going
  332. # [18:11] <anne> PC: can I email to ask for volunteers?
  333. # [18:11] <rubys> +1
  334. # [18:11] <anne> MJS: sounds good
  335. # [18:11] <adrianba> +1
  336. # [18:11] <anne> ACTION: paulc to ask for a volunteer to run the testing Task Force
  337. # [18:11] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  338. # [18:11] * RRSAgent records action 1
  339. # [18:11] <trackbot> Created ACTION-146 - Ask for a volunteer to run the testing Task Force [on Paul Cotton - due 2009-10-01].
  340. # [18:12] <Zakim> +??P1
  341. # [18:12] <anne> PC: we wanted a way to figure out a way to be a member of the testing TF without getting email from the HTML WG
  342. # [18:13] <anne> MS: that is not possible because the subscription list of public-html is based on the HTML WG member database
  343. # [18:13] * anne can the TF members not set up a filter?
  344. # [18:13] <anne> PC: what if they explicitly unsubscribe?
  345. # [18:14] <anne> MS: don't think that will work
  346. # [18:14] <anne> PC: so the only recourse would be for the TF members to set up a filter
  347. # [18:14] <anne> MS: most people use some kind of filtering already so this would just be another rule
  348. # [18:15] <anne> PC: just wanted to make sure that we dealt with item 2 under the proposal
  349. # [18:15] <anne> PC: as AB from MS requested this feature
  350. # [18:15] <paulc> The following point will NOT be possible:
  351. # [18:15] <paulc> Note: We may want to figure out how to permit TF members to avoid receiving WG email.
  352. # [18:16] <anne> PC: OASIS is ahead of the W3C here
  353. # [18:16] <rubys> close action 143
  354. # [18:16] * masinter thinks it is probably possible to arrange this
  355. # [18:16] <Zakim> -anne
  356. # [18:16] <anne> MS: [censored o_O]
  357. # [18:16] * anne meh
  358. # [18:16] <Zakim> +??P16
  359. # [18:16] <anne> Zakim, ??P16 is me
  360. # [18:16] <Zakim> +anne; got it
  361. # [18:16] <paulc> Topic ISSUE-54/ACTION-103: Register about: URI scheme [Lachlan Hunt]
  362. # [18:16] <anne> Topic: about URI scheme
  363. # [18:17] <masinter> there was mail on the about URI scheme this week
  364. # [18:17] <anne> MJS: he emailed on this last week
  365. # [18:17] <masinter> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/uri-review/current/msg01009.html
  366. # [18:17] <pimpbot> Title: [Uri-review] draft-holsten-about-uri-scheme-02 (at www.ietf.org)
  367. # [18:17] <anne> MJS: we should probably roll over the action
  368. # [18:18] <anne> PC: I will change the due date to next week
  369. # [18:18] <paulc> See report in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0684.html
  370. # [18:18] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-103 Follow up on the about: scheme Registration from Lachlan Hunt on 2009-09-17 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  371. # [18:18] * MikeSmith will change it
  372. # [18:18] <anne> Topic: update IRI spec based on comments
  373. # [18:18] <paulc> Topic ISSUE-56/ACTION-137: Update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI [Larry Masinter]
  374. # [18:18] <MikeSmith> action-103 due 2009-09-24
  375. # [18:18] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-103.
  376. # [18:18] <trackbot> ACTION-103 Register about: URI scheme due date now 2009-09-24
  377. # [18:18] <anne> MJS: I think LM emailed about this
  378. # [18:18] <masinter> the author/editor of the about URI scheme needs to respond to comments
  379. # [18:19] * anne link?
  380. # [18:19] <masinter> yes, i'm in TAG meeting but we're about to break
  381. # [18:19] <paulc> see report in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0982.html
  382. # [18:19] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-137 on URI/IRI/URL from Larry Masinter on 2009-09-24 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  383. # [18:19] <anne> PC: this one appears to be in progress
  384. # [18:19] <masinter> i'm not on phone but i can respond to questions on IRC
  385. # [18:19] <paulc> "Updating due date to 9/28"
  386. # [18:19] <anne> ACTION-137?
  387. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-137
  388. # [18:19] <trackbot> ACTION-137 -- Larry Masinter to update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), -- due 2009-09-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  389. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/137
  390. # [18:19] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-137 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  391. # [18:20] <masinter> wait, should be OPEN not PENDINGREVIEW
  392. # [18:20] <anne> Topic: outstanding CfC
  393. # [18:20] <paulc> Topic CfC: declare WebSockets out of scope [Maciej Stachowiak]
  394. # [18:20] <masinter> i will do yet another draft, think next monday, that's what i put in the tracker
  395. # [18:20] <paulc> Resolved without objection.
  396. # [18:21] <anne> PC: I believe the first one is resolved
  397. # [18:21] <anne> PC: comments?
  398. # [18:21] <rubys> action-137?
  399. # [18:21] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-137
  400. # [18:21] <trackbot> ACTION-137 -- Larry Masinter to update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), -- due 2009-09-28 -- OPEN
  401. # [18:21] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/137
  402. # [18:21] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-137 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  403. # [18:21] <paulc> Topic CfC: Publish HTML+RDFa as First Public Working Draft [Maciej Stachowiak]
  404. # [18:21] <anne> PC: we haven't seen anyone to object to publication
  405. # [18:22] <anne> PC: we have seen a lot of discussion on content
  406. # [18:22] <paulc> Resolved without objection to publish the first public WGD
  407. # [18:22] <anne> PC: resolved to publish without objection as FPWD
  408. # [18:23] <anne> PC: I will work with Manu to get the document in shape
  409. # [18:23] <anne> Manu: that's be fantastic
  410. # [18:23] <anne> ACTION: paulc to work with Manu on making HTML+RDFa ready to publish
  411. # [18:23] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  412. # [18:23] * RRSAgent records action 2
  413. # [18:23] <trackbot> Created ACTION-147 - Work with Manu on making HTML+RDFa ready to publish [on Paul Cotton - due 2009-10-01].
  414. # [18:24] <anne> Topic: HTML+RDFa
  415. # [18:24] <anne> Manu: after speaking with Henri and reading Maciej and Jonas' feedback it is clear that we need to clarify the current specification.
  416. # [18:24] <anne> Manu: with respect to DOM Level 2 and the infoset
  417. # [18:24] <anne> Manu: we'll start to move the issues from the RDFa wiki to the W3C issue tracker
  418. # [18:25] <anne> PC: do you want an action on this or is it obvious enough?
  419. # [18:25] <anne> PC: the movement of the issues, in particular
  420. # [18:25] <anne> Manu: I wanted to put them in the RDFa TF tracker
  421. # [18:25] <mjs> q+
  422. # [18:25] * Zakim sees mjs on the speaker queue
  423. # [18:25] <anne> Manu: I can email it after the telcon
  424. # [18:26] <anne> MJS: I'd recommend putting them in W3C Bugzilla, not the Tracker
  425. # [18:26] <rubys> ack next
  426. # [18:26] * Zakim sees mjs at the head of the speaker queue
  427. # [18:26] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  428. # [18:26] <paulc> tx sam
  429. # [18:26] * Quits: DanC_lap (connolly@128.30.52.169) (Ping timeout)
  430. # [18:26] <anne> Manu: that might lead to some duplication between the RDFa and HTML tracker
  431. # [18:27] <paulc> Topic Joint HTML and PF WG Accessibility Task Force
  432. # [18:27] * anne (is the RDFa TF some subgroup of the XHTML2 WG?)
  433. # [18:27] <anne> s/Topic Joint/Topic: Joint/
  434. # [18:27] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0956.html
  435. # [18:27] <pimpbot> Title: Re: Accessibility Task Force from Janina Sajka on 2009-09-23 (public-html@w3.org from September 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  436. # [18:28] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force
  437. # [18:28] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Accessibility Task Force (at www.w3.org)
  438. # [18:29] <anne> PC: does anyone have any comments regarding the description on this TF?
  439. # [18:29] <anne> PC: we handle the patent obligation by requiring members of the TF to be a member of the HTML WG
  440. # [18:29] <paulc> Who are the Task Force Facilitators?
  441. # [18:29] * Joins: DanC_lap (connolly@128.30.52.169)
  442. # [18:30] <anne> ACTION: paulc to recruit a Task Force facilitator for the HTML WG
  443. # [18:30] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  444. # [18:30] * RRSAgent records action 3
  445. # [18:30] <trackbot> Created ACTION-148 - Recruit a Task Force facilitator for the HTML WG [on Paul Cotton - due 2009-10-01].
  446. # [18:30] <anne> MC: can we record a formal resolution?
  447. # [18:31] <anne> MJS: if we want to record a resolution we should probably issue a CfC on the mailing list
  448. # [18:31] <anne> ACTION: maciej to issue a CfC to approve the accessibility Task Force and testing Task Force
  449. # [18:31] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  450. # [18:31] * RRSAgent records action 4
  451. # [18:31] <trackbot> Created ACTION-149 - Issue a CfC to approve the accessibility Task Force and testing Task Force [on Maciej Stachowiak - due 2009-10-01].
  452. # [18:32] <paulc> 7. Topic HTML WG Testing Task Force
  453. # [18:32] <paulc> Done above under the action items.
  454. # [18:32] <anne> s/7. Topic/Topic: 7./
  455. # [18:32] <paulc> Topic for drag and drop discussion
  456. # [18:33] <anne> s/Topic for/Topic:/
  457. # [18:33] <anne> RS: the problem we have with the current specification is that it is mouse specific
  458. # [18:33] <anne> AvK: actually, the specification is already written in a way that it is keyboard accessible
  459. # [18:34] <anne> AvK: as a copy and paste operation
  460. # [18:34] <anne> MJS: the current specification dispatches the same events for copy and paste and drag and drop
  461. # [18:35] <anne> RS: we need to create an issue
  462. # [18:35] <anne> MJS: I would prefer to start with a bug in the bug tracker
  463. # [18:36] <anne> RS: who creates the bug?
  464. # [18:36] <anne> MJS: I would recommend you do it since you understand the issue
  465. # [18:36] <kliehm> q+
  466. # [18:36] * Zakim sees kliehm on the speaker queue
  467. # [18:36] <anne> You want: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%20WG
  468. # [18:36] <pimpbot> Title: Log in to Bugzilla (at www.w3.org)
  469. # [18:36] <kliehm> zakim, unmute me
  470. # [18:36] <Zakim> kliehm should no longer be muted
  471. # [18:36] <MikeSmith> q?
  472. # [18:36] * Zakim sees kliehm on the speaker queue
  473. # [18:36] <paulc> ack
  474. # [18:36] <anne> richardschwerdtfe, ^^
  475. # [18:37] <paulc> ack next
  476. # [18:37] * Zakim sees kliehm at the head of the speaker queue
  477. # [18:37] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  478. # [18:37] <anne> MK: drag and drop has been under fire recently
  479. # [18:37] <julian> http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2009/09/the_html5_drag.html
  480. # [18:37] <pimpbot> Title: QuirksBlog: The HTML5 drag and drop disaster (at www.quirksmode.org)
  481. # [18:37] <anne> MK: I think people have asked to remove it from the HTML5 specification, rewrite it, and handle it as a separate draft
  482. # [18:38] <anne> PC: so what you're saying is that this issue might be subsumed by drag and drop might be done in a different way
  483. # [18:38] <masinter> +1 to removing drag and drop, brings in all kinds of stuff
  484. # [18:38] <anne> MK: yes
  485. # [18:39] <anne> MJS: lets keep this as a separate issue
  486. # [18:39] <anne> PC: agreed
  487. # [18:39] <anne> MJS: Firefox, Safari, and Internet Explorer all implement the current model and it is therefore unlikely to go away
  488. # [18:39] <anne> MJS: but we can discuss this offline
  489. # [18:39] <paulc> Topic discussion of summary
  490. # [18:39] * kliehm zakim, mute me
  491. # [18:39] * Zakim kliehm should now be muted
  492. # [18:39] <anne> s/Topic/Topic:/
  493. # [18:40] <anne> LC: [scribe missed]
  494. # [18:40] <anne> MJS: the bug tracker should not affect your action on creating an alternative draft
  495. # [18:40] <julian> one of the bugs related to summary is http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7633
  496. # [18:40] <anne> LC, PC: thanks MJS
  497. # [18:40] <pimpbot> 7633: shelleyp@burningbird.net, P2, REOPENED, The use of @summary should be encouraged when circumstances warrant
  498. # [18:40] * Joins: msporny (msporny@71.171.16.206)
  499. # [18:40] <anne> PC: volunteer to scribe next week?
  500. # [18:40] <paulc> Topic Scribe for next meeting
  501. # [18:40] <anne> PC: no volunteers
  502. # [18:41] * anne (very nice paulc!)
  503. # [18:41] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  504. # [18:41] <Zakim> - +1.503.712.aaaa
  505. # [18:41] <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
  506. # [18:41] <anne> PC: adjourned
  507. # [18:41] <Zakim> -Rich
  508. # [18:41] <Zakim> -Matt
  509. # [18:41] <Zakim> -Sam
  510. # [18:41] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  511. # [18:41] <Zakim> -adrianba
  512. # [18:41] <Zakim> -anne
  513. # [18:41] <cardona507> thanks
  514. # [18:41] <Zakim> -carlos
  515. # [18:41] <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop Mike
  516. # [18:41] <Zakim> -Eliot_Graff
  517. # [18:41] <mjs> well done
  518. # [18:41] <Zakim> -jerryEzrol
  519. # [18:41] <Zakim> -julian
  520. # [18:41] <Zakim> -kliehm
  521. # [18:41] <Zakim> Mike is being disconnected
  522. # [18:41] <Zakim> -Mike
  523. # [18:41] <Zakim> -Cooper
  524. # [18:41] <Zakim> -laura
  525. # [18:41] <Zakim> -??P1
  526. # [18:41] * Quits: Eliot_Graff (EGraff@131.107.0.103) (Quit: Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow)
  527. # [18:41] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  528. # [18:41] * Quits: kliehm (kliehm@88.68.94.152) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458])
  529. # [18:41] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  530. # [18:41] <msporny> zakim, I am ??P1
  531. # [18:41] <Zakim> Attendees were Eliot_Graff, carlos, Cynthia_Shelly, Sam, Matt, jerryEzrol, [Microsoft], Radhika_Roy, kliehm, +1.503.712.aaaa, julian, laura, msporny, Cooper, anne, Rich, [Apple],
  532. # [18:41] <Zakim> ... Mike, adrianba
  533. # [18:41] <Zakim> sorry, msporny, I do not see a party named '??P1'
  534. # [18:41] * masinter notes TAG finally breaking for lunch, too late to call in
  535. # [18:44] <anne> RRSAgent, make minutes
  536. # [18:44] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/24-html-wg-minutes.html anne
  537. # [18:44] <msporny> rrsagent, make log public
  538. # [18:44] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, msporny
  539. # [18:45] <anne> chair: paulc
  540. # [18:45] <anne> RRSAgent, make minutes
  541. # [18:45] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/24-html-wg-minutes.html anne
  542. # [18:45] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 24 Sep 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  543. # [18:46] * Quits: adrianba (adrianba@131.107.0.74) (Quit: Bye!)
  544. # [18:46] * Quits: cardona507 (carloscard@67.180.160.250) (Quit: cardona507)
  545. # [18:47] * Parts: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30)
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  554. # [21:08] * Disconnected
  555. # [21:09] * Attempting to rejoin channel #html-wg
  556. # [21:09] * Rejoined channel #html-wg
  557. # [21:09] * Topic is 'Pursuing conformance solutions for the N-body gravitational system known as "the Web", and in general, collectively performing various acts of unparalleled hubris (This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/)'
  558. # [21:09] * Set by MikeSmith on Thu Jun 18 07:02:08
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  567. # [22:06] * Quits: hober (ted@206.212.254.2) (Ping timeout)
  568. # [22:07] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Clean up the play() and pause() algorithms. (whatwg r3992) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0244.html> ** hixie: Add some more obsolete attributes. (whatwg r3991) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0243.html> ** hixie: Fix error in example. (whatwg r3990) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0242.html> ** hixie: mention <meter> doesn't w
  569. # [22:07] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7721] Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0811.html>
  570. # [22:17] * Parts: rubys (rubys@65.190.139.141)
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  572. # [22:27] * Quits: mjs (mjs@17.203.14.157) (Ping timeout)
  573. # [22:27] * mjs_ is now known as mjs
  574. # [22:36] * drunknbass_work is now known as drunknbass_work|a
  575. # [22:36] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  576. # [22:37] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: try to tweak the text on initializing the canvas (whatwg r3993) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Sep/0245.html>
  577. # [22:37] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7721] Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0812.html>
  578. # [22:44] * Quits: drunknbass_work|a (aaron@71.107.253.243) (Quit: Leaving...)
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  584. # [23:37] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7721] Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0815.html> ** [Bug 7723] New: duplicate word ("first first") should be "first five" <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/0813.html>
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  587. # Session Close: Fri Sep 25 00:00:00 2009

The end :)