/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-09-30 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Sep 30 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  12. # [00:37] <pimpbot> planet: Sniffing for RSS 1.0 feeds served as text/html <http://blog.whatwg.org/content-sniffing-still-sucks> ** <audio> element autobuffers no matter what <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1495146/audio-element-autobuffers-no-matter-what>
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  16. # [02:14] <Iapetus> Why is there not an HTML tag that delimits symantec content?
  17. # [02:16] <Dashiva> Because McAfee would complain
  18. # [02:17] <Dashiva> Did you mean semantic?
  19. # [02:17] <Iapetus> Yes, sorry
  20. # [02:17] <Dashiva> The common practice nowadays seems to make metadata inline with the actual content
  21. # [02:18] <Dashiva> So the entire document is (or isn't) semantic
  22. # [02:22] <Iapetus> It is a common search engine practice to divide a web page content into semantically related content before indexing because the page ranking index algorithm was designed to rank scientific abstracts.
  23. # [02:22] <Iapetus> It works best when this is done.
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  25. # [02:23] <Iapetus> So why not allow a page creater to indicate to a search engine symantic content. This idea clearly fits within the game theoretic model of allowing a self-determined social publisher/searcher vs. a hierarchically imposed model.
  26. # [02:24] <Iapetus> In this case imposed by the search engine.
  27. # [02:25] <Iapetus> Dashiva, that is the reason I believe it should be there.
  28. # [02:25] <Dashiva> How would such a system deal with dishonest pages?
  29. # [02:25] <Iapetus> If this tag were found on a page the tag would then take precedence over the segmentation algorithm unless it meets a better-fit criteria.
  30. # [02:25] <Iapetus> So a better-fit criteria would deal with dishonest pages.
  31. # [02:26] <Dashiva> But if the search engine was able to determine that, why would it need the extra data at all?
  32. # [02:27] <Iapetus> Because the publisher of information should have control over how information is found.
  33. # [02:28] <Dashiva> Isn't this more or less what Google is doing with those rich snippets?
  34. # [02:29] <Iapetus> Isn't a snippet a micro-format.
  35. # [02:30] <Dashiva> They use something similar to RDFa
  36. # [02:30] <Dashiva> and microformats too, I guess
  37. # [02:31] <Iapetus> I have spoken to developers that are frustrated by indexing intranet sites. And want to have control over how it is indexed internally.
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  39. # [02:32] <Dashiva> That seems like a different issue, though
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  41. # [02:32] <Iapetus> Without defining a hierarchical structure that the intranet is published from.
  42. # [02:32] <Dashiva> Those instructions can be given inline or separately
  43. # [02:33] <Iapetus> Well currently there are a fair number of automatic segmentation algorithms. I would think a human would be better at this is many cases.
  44. # [02:33] <Iapetus> And it would fit into the game theory model of a self adapting framework for how people want information to be found and how people think the information can be found.
  45. # [02:34] <Dashiva> Again, allowing the information to be provided seems unrelated to how the information is provided
  46. # [02:35] <Iapetus> I understnd the seperation of concerns issue.
  47. # [02:35] <Iapetus> There are already meta-tags though in HTML.
  48. # [02:35] <Iapetus> That violate this seperation of concerns issue.
  49. # [02:35] <Dashiva> What I mean is that this isn't something for HTML, it's for the search engines and webmasters to handle
  50. # [02:35] <Iapetus> How do webmasters handle it?
  51. # [02:36] <Iapetus> Buy engaging in countless trickes to arrange links etc.
  52. # [02:36] <Iapetus> tricks that is
  53. # [02:36] <Dashiva> That's what rich snippets and searchmonkey and the like are handling
  54. # [02:36] <Dashiva> The search engines provide hooks that the webmasters can use
  55. # [02:38] <Iapetus> I do not see how rick snippets are related to this. They just allow you to put information that is used int he link search results.
  56. # [02:39] <Iapetus> They are not used to direct the page-ranking algorithm's segmentation.
  57. # [02:39] <Dashiva> Those are the current hooks
  58. # [02:39] <Dashiva> If Google decides it wants to let webmasters control segmentation, they can provide hooks for that too
  59. # [02:40] <Iapetus> i say force it on them
  60. # [02:40] <Dashiva> That would be somewhat impractical
  61. # [02:41] <Iapetus> I suppose you are entirely correct.
  62. # [02:42] <Iapetus> <div class="item pagesegment>
  63. # [02:42] <Iapetus> make it a microformat
  64. # [02:42] <Iapetus> Without microformating
  65. # [02:43] <Iapetus> Dashiva, thanks for the dialog. I do appreciate this. I do understand your viewpoint now and agree with it.
  66. # [02:44] <Iapetus> I will propose a microformat.
  67. # [02:46] <Dashiva> Good luck
  68. # [02:48] <Iapetus> Thanks. I do understand the seperation of concerns issues here better. And understand that a tag is not where this belongs because it does not have to do with content. I don't like the meta-tags in HTML. But it is a trade off.
  69. # [02:54] <Iapetus> I suppose the idea of a meta-tag having page scope has long been dismissed.
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  80. # [05:38] <pimpbot> planet: Mozilla Platform Meeting Minutes: 2009-09-29 <http://blog.mozilla.com/meeting-notes/archives/240>
  81. # [06:39] <pimpbot> planet: Is there a limit to the length of HTML attributes? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1496096/is-there-a-limit-to-the-length-of-html-attributes>
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  83. # [06:46] <aniasis> Hello
  84. # [06:47] <aniasis> I am having an issue with trying to keep a counter in my xsl:for-each
  85. # [06:53] <MikeSmith> aniasis: we don't do much with xsl on this channel
  86. # [06:54] <MikeSmith> aniasis: you might want to try posting about the issue to the xsl-list mailing list
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  89. # [06:56] <MikeSmith> aniasis: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list/
  90. # [06:56] <pimpbot> Title: Mulberry Technologies, Inc. - XSL-List, Open Forum on XSL (at www.mulberrytech.com)
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  98. # [08:22] <MikeSmith> issue: should spec discourage use of "legacy" doctypes?
  99. # [08:22] * trackbot noticed an ISSUE. Trying to create it.
  100. # [08:22] <trackbot> Created ISSUE-84 - Should spec discourage use of "legacy" doctypes? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/84/edit .
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  102. # [08:26] <MikeSmith> issue-84: see http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7727
  103. # [08:26] * trackbot attempting to add a note to ISSUE-84.
  104. # [08:26] <trackbot> ISSUE-84 Should spec discourage use of "legacy" doctypes? notes added
  105. # [08:26] <pimpbot> 7727: julian.reschke@gmx.de, P2, RESOLVED WONTFIX, legacy doc type does not need to be discouraged by "SHOULD NOT"
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  133. # [16:41] <pimpbot> planet: Compare/contrast HTML, XHTML, XML, and HTML5 <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1429065/compare-contrast-html-xhtml-xml-and-html5>
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  165. # [21:12] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7711] The "strong native semantics" are worded very similarly -- but not quite the same -- for input type=Number, input type=range, and progressbar. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/1103.html> ** [Bug 7686] No need to require user interface in cache update algorithm <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/1102.html> ** [Bug 7768] Manifest download error means obsolete or
  166. # [22:12] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7778] "interpreted as a character encoding" is not linked to a defined algorithm <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/1105.html> ** [Bug 7778] New: "interpreted as a character encoding" is not linked to a defined algorithm <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/1104.html>
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  174. # [22:43] <pimpbot> planet: HTML5 Ajax to a different domain? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1500275/html5-ajax-to-a-different-domain>
  175. # [22:43] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7779] New: Missing task source for application cache events <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/1106.html>
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  182. # [23:43] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7633] The use of @summary should be encouraged when circumstances warrant <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Sep/1107.html>
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The end :)