/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-10-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 15 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  6. # [00:12] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7917] document.close() should attempt to tokenize <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0196.html>
  7. # [00:46] <pimpbot> planet: "View Source" - a new series about sites using HTML5 <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blogspot/Dcni/~3/YVl53V_GZjU/view-source-new-series-about-sites.html>
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  14. # [02:12] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7923] New: What about local files access? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0197.html>
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  16. # [02:42] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7924] New: xaXAafs <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0198.html>
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  41. # [07:47] <pimpbot> planet: If I use HTML 5's DocType what will happen? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1570418/if-i-use-html-5s-doctype-what-will-happen> ** Questions/comments on http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html ? Ask them here: http://is.gd/4kfhx <http://twitter.com/diveintomark/statuses/4881945363> ** Video on the Web - Dive Into HTML5 <http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html> ** Damn, I wish this were simpler: http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html #h
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  55. # [10:44] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Fix markup error in example DOM tree. (whatwg r4143) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Oct/0064.html>
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  57. # [11:14] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7926] New: Undefine insertion point if parser on call stack doing anything other than running script element <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0200.html>
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  61. # [13:49] <pimpbot> planet: HTML5 Canvas FTW! <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/DasGtqF3A2o/html5-canvas-ftw> ** export canvas data to json <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1571763/export-canvas-data-to-json>
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  65. # [14:15] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7927] New: widht/height says "map to the dimension properties" but the link goes to "maps to the pixel length property" <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0201.html>
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  74. # [15:49] <pimpbot> planet: How can I use the HTML5 canvas element in IE? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1332501/how-can-i-use-the-html5-canvas-element-in-ie>
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  84. # [17:26] <plh> I wonder, do we have a comparison of microdata vs RDFa somewhere?
  85. # [17:27] <mjs> like, a technical level comparison?
  86. # [17:27] <plh> yes
  87. # [17:27] <mjs> I think there have been comparisons in email, but we don't have that information collected in a single place
  88. # [17:27] <mjs> also microdata has been significantly changed since the last time we had a lot of technical discussion
  89. # [17:27] <jgraham> and blog posts
  90. # [17:29] <jgraham> e.g (not these are all out of date wrt microdata)
  91. # [17:29] <jgraham> *note
  92. # [17:29] <jgraham> http://www.jenitennison.com/blog/node/103
  93. # [17:29] <pimpbot> Title: What You Cant Do with HTML5 Microdata | Jeni's Musings (at www.jenitennison.com)
  94. # [17:29] <mjs> a fresh technical-level comparison would be useful for reference
  95. # [17:29] <jgraham> http://bnode.org/blog/2009/05/15/could-microdata-work-better-for-me-than-rdfa
  96. # [17:29] <pimpbot> Title: Could Microdata work better for me than RDFa? - benjamin nowack's blog (at bnode.org)
  97. # [17:30] <mjs> I'm not sure it would change anyone's mind, at least for people who already feel strongly
  98. # [17:30] <mjs> but it might be useful for the silent majority
  99. # [17:30] <jgraham> http://www.jenitennison.com/blog/node/124
  100. # [17:30] <pimpbot> Title: HTML5/RDFa Arguments | Jeni's Musings (at www.jenitennison.com)
  101. # [17:30] <plh> a lot of people are silent in this debate. do they actually care?
  102. # [17:31] <jgraham> plh: Hard to tell. Maybe they just don't want to get dragged into such a polarised topic.
  103. # [17:31] <jgraham> Maybe they have no interest in any form of tree annotation mechanism
  104. # [17:32] <jgraham> Maybe the technologies are too complex to evaluate without a large time investment
  105. # [17:34] <cardona507> for myself it is the later
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  107. # [17:34] <jgraham> http://blog.foolip.org/2009/08/23/microformats-vs-rdfa-vs-microdata/
  108. # [17:34] <pimpbot> Title: Microformats vs RDFa vs Microdata « Philip Jägenstedt (at blog.foolip.org)
  109. # [17:34] <Philip> It shouldn't really take a significant time investment for someone to consider a use case that they are interested in, and evaluate how well they can solve it with microdata and RDFa
  110. # [17:35] <Philip> (If that does take a significant time investment, it indicates the solution is too complex and therefore fails the evaluation)
  111. # [17:38] <mjs> Philip: I'm not sure I agree with that statement in general - it may be that the problem domain has intrinsic complexity
  112. # [17:38] <mjs> for example, it's pretty hard to review <video>, but I would say that is due to the nature of timed media and what people want to do with it, not flaws in video element's design
  113. # [17:39] <mjs> plh: I suspect a lot of people don't care strongly one way or the other
  114. # [17:39] <jgraham> It's pretty hard to evaluate the details of <video> but it's not hard to evaluate it (at least somewhat) from an authouring perspective
  115. # [17:40] <jgraham> (and many people did, noting the increased complexity caused by not having a single mandated codec)
  116. # [17:40] <jgraham> s//baseline/
  117. # [17:43] <plh> thanks for all the pointers. good stuff in them indeed.
  118. # [17:46] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  119. # [17:52] * Joins: kliehm (kliehm@88.68.46.84)
  120. # [17:54] * Joins: dsinger (mobile@67.218.106.111)
  121. # [17:55] <dsinger> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  122. # [17:55] <dsinger> Zakim, this is html
  123. # [17:56] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  124. # [17:56] <dsinger> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  125. # [17:56] <Zakim> sorry, dsinger, I don't know what conference this is
  126. # [17:56] <Zakim> On IRC I see dsinger, kliehm, Lachy, cardona507, myakura, taf2, plh, tlr, manu, MikeSmith, ROBOd, tH, syp, mjs, gavin, Julian, drunknbass_work, Shunsuke, krijnh, karl, gavin_,
  127. # [17:56] <plh> you're early David
  128. # [17:56] <Zakim> ... anne2, hober, shepazu, Hixie, pimpbot, Yudai, Dashiva, jmb, gsnedders|work, ed_work_, hsivonen, deltab, johndrinkwater, jarib, drry, jgraham, RRSAgent, inimino, CIA-1,
  129. # [17:56] <Zakim> ... takkaria, trackbot, Philip
  130. # [17:56] <dsinger> Zakom, this is html
  131. # [17:56] * Joins: paulc (4c401052@128.30.52.43)
  132. # [17:56] <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
  133. # [17:56] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  134. # [17:56] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  135. # [17:56] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  136. # [17:57] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
  137. # [17:57] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  138. # [17:57] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  139. # [17:57] <trackbot> Date: 15 October 2009
  140. # [17:57] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@83.252.235.100)
  141. # [17:57] <cardona507> zakim, mute carlos
  142. # [17:57] <Zakim> sorry, cardona507, I do not know which phone connection belongs to carlos
  143. # [17:57] <dsinger> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  144. # [17:57] <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.408.398.aaaa, +1.831.454.aabb
  145. # [17:57] <paulc> Mike: Can you scribe?
  146. # [17:57] <dsinger> Zakim, aaaa is dsinger
  147. # [17:57] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  148. # [17:57] <manu> zakim, code?
  149. # [17:57] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), manu
  150. # [17:57] <dsinger> Zakim, mute me
  151. # [17:57] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
  152. # [17:58] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  153. # [17:58] * Joins: Travis (836b0055@128.30.52.43)
  154. # [17:58] * Joins: Eliot_Graff (EGraff@131.107.0.104)
  155. # [17:58] <Zakim> + +1.715.718.aacc
  156. # [17:58] <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer
  157. # [17:58] * Joins: adrianba (adrianba@131.107.0.103)
  158. # [17:58] <cardona507> zakim, mute carlos
  159. # [17:58] <Zakim> sorry, cardona507, I do not know which phone connection belongs to carlos
  160. # [17:58] * plh zakim, call plh-work
  161. # [17:58] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
  162. # [17:58] <Zakim> +Plh
  163. # [17:58] <cardona507> how do I tell zakim my phone connection?
  164. # [17:58] <manu> zakim, I am ??aacc
  165. # [17:58] <Zakim> sorry, manu, I do not see a party named '??aacc'
  166. # [17:58] * plh zakim, mute me
  167. # [17:58] * Zakim Plh should now be muted
  168. # [17:58] <Zakim> + +49.251.280.aadd
  169. # [17:58] * Joins: rubys (rubys@65.190.139.141)
  170. # [17:58] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  171. # [17:58] <manu> zakim I am ??1.715.718.aacc
  172. # [17:59] * Joins: tross (836b0047@128.30.52.43)
  173. # [17:59] <Eliot_Graff> Zakim, Microsoft.a is me
  174. # [17:59] <Julian> Zakim, +49.251.280.aadd is me
  175. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Eliot_Graff; got it
  176. # [17:59] <Zakim> + +0131208aaee
  177. # [17:59] <manu> zakim, who is on the phone?
  178. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Julian; got it
  179. # [17:59] <Zakim> On the phone I see dsinger (muted), +1.831.454.aabb, [Microsoft], +1.715.718.aacc, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Plh (muted), Julian, Eliot_Graff, +0131208aaee
  180. # [17:59] <plh> zakim, aacc is Manu
  181. # [17:59] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  182. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Manu; got it
  183. # [17:59] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  184. # [17:59] <MikeSmith> paulc: would rather not scribe -- I scribed two other telcons so far today, and some phone connection flakiness to boot
  185. # [17:59] * shepazu zakim, call shepazu
  186. # [17:59] * Zakim ok, shepazu; the call is being made
  187. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Shepazu
  188. # [17:59] <paulc> PaulC just joined.
  189. # [17:59] <manu> scribenick: manu
  190. # [17:59] <gsnedders> Zakim, +0131208aaee is me
  191. # [17:59] <Zakim> +gsnedders; got it
  192. # [17:59] <adrianba> zakim, Microsoft.a has adrianba, travil, tross, krisk
  193. # [17:59] <Zakim> +adrianba, travil, tross, krisk; got it
  194. # [18:00] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
  195. # [18:00] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  196. # [18:00] <Zakim> +Mike
  197. # [18:00] <Zakim> +Sam
  198. # [18:00] <Zakim> + +049699435aaff
  199. # [18:00] * dsinger mike arrived
  200. # [18:00] <MikeSmith> Zakim, Mike has MikeSmith
  201. # [18:00] <Zakim> +MikeSmith; got it
  202. # [18:00] * kliehm zakim, aaff is me
  203. # [18:00] * Zakim +kliehm; got it
  204. # [18:00] * gsnedders (Who is that who is speaking? Sam?)
  205. # [18:01] <kliehm> zakim, mute me
  206. # [18:01] <Zakim> kliehm should now be muted
  207. # [18:01] * plh Paul and Manu
  208. # [18:01] * gsnedders doesn't recognize voices :)
  209. # [18:01] * Joins: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30)
  210. # [18:01] * Joins: Laura (laura@131.212.34.80)
  211. # [18:02] <cardona507> zakim, +1.841.454.aabb is me
  212. # [18:02] <manu> Paul: There is a version 2 of the agenda, sent to the WG list
  213. # [18:02] * Joins: frankolivier (836b004b@64.62.228.82)
  214. # [18:02] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0476.html
  215. # [18:02] <pimpbot> Title: [VER 2] {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-10-15: AIs, Task Forces, F2F meeting plans from Paul Cotton on 2009-10-15 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  216. # [18:02] <Zakim> sorry, cardona507, I do not recognize a party named '+1.841.454.aabb'
  217. # [18:02] <manu> Paul: I've had some background discussions with people offline so we can speed the meeting up.
  218. # [18:02] <plh> zakim, aabb is cardona507
  219. # [18:02] <Zakim> +cardona507; got it
  220. # [18:02] <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
  221. # [18:02] <Zakim> On the phone I see dsinger (muted), cardona507, [Microsoft], Manu, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Plh (muted), Julian, Eliot_Graff, gsnedders, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft.aa], Shepazu, Mike,
  222. # [18:03] <Zakim> ... Sam, kliehm (muted)
  223. # [18:03] <plh> zakim, you're a good bot
  224. # [18:03] <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has adrianba, travil, tross, krisk
  225. # [18:03] <Zakim> Mike has MikeSmith
  226. # [18:03] <Zakim> I don't understand 'you're a good bot', plh
  227. # [18:03] <cardona507> zakim, mute me
  228. # [18:03] <manu> Topic: Action Items
  229. # [18:03] <Zakim> cardona507 should now be muted
  230. # [18:03] <Laura> zakim, aacc is me
  231. # [18:03] <Zakim> sorry, Laura, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
  232. # [18:03] <manu> Paul: Agenda Item 1a
  233. # [18:03] <manu> Paul: Issue 07 ACTION 130
  234. # [18:03] <dsinger> Zakim, unmute me
  235. # [18:03] <Zakim> dsinger should no longer be muted
  236. # [18:04] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009OctDec/0004.html
  237. # [18:04] <pimpbot> Title: Re: {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-10-15: AIs, Task Forces, F2F meeting plans from Dave Singer on 2009-10-14 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from October to December 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  238. # [18:04] <paulc> Status report on 1a: tp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009OctDec/0004.html
  239. # [18:04] <manu> Paul: David mentioned no progress and that we extend this 2 weeks.
  240. # [18:04] <Laura> zakim, +1.715.718.aacc is me
  241. # [18:04] <Zakim> sorry, Laura, I do not recognize a party named '+1.715.718.aacc'
  242. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.415.595.aagg
  243. # [18:04] <manu> David: haven't achieved anything reportable, but am spending alot of time on this
  244. # [18:04] <paulc> David is making progress but does not have something to report yet.
  245. # [18:04] <manu> David: Lots of meetings, talking with lots of people.
  246. # [18:05] <cardona507> :)
  247. # [18:05] <manu> Paul: Let's be more accurate with 2 weeks...
  248. # [18:05] <manu> David: Why dont' we defer this and discuss where we are with the F2F
  249. # [18:05] <Zakim> +Radhika_Roy
  250. # [18:05] <gsnedders> s/t'/'t/
  251. # [18:05] <manu> Paul: that would be November 5th
  252. # [18:05] <Laura> +Laura
  253. # [18:05] * Zakim wonders where Laura is
  254. # [18:06] <rubys> action-130 is due in 3 weeks
  255. # [18:06] * kliehm zakim, aacc is Laura
  256. # [18:06] * Zakim sorry, kliehm, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
  257. # [18:06] <MikeSmith> action-130 due 2009-11-05
  258. # [18:06] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-130.
  259. # [18:06] <trackbot> ACTION-130 Review status of video codec positions due date now 2009-11-05
  260. # [18:06] <dsinger> Zakim, mute me
  261. # [18:06] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
  262. # [18:06] <manu> Paul: Moving on to agendum 1b
  263. # [18:07] <manu> Paul: In v2 of the agenda, I pointed at Larry's update - there was a meeting
  264. # [18:07] <manu> Paul: He is making some progress, he agreed that we could just extend this item.
  265. # [18:07] <paulc> Larry's report: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0433.html
  266. # [18:07] <pimpbot> Title: Regrets for tomorrow; URL/IRI progress, ISSUE-56/ACTION-37 from Larry Masinter on 2009-10-14 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  267. # [18:07] <manu> Paul: Any objection to extending this by two weeks.
  268. # [18:07] <paulc> action-137 is due in 2 weeks
  269. # [18:07] <manu> s/weeks./weeks\?/
  270. # [18:08] <paulc> action-137 due in 2 weeks
  271. # [18:08] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-137.
  272. # [18:08] <trackbot> ACTION-137 Update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), due date now in 2 weeks
  273. # [18:08] * Joins: richardschwerdtfe (RichS@99.39.114.91)
  274. # [18:08] <manu> Paul: item C, Action-138
  275. # [18:08] <manu> Paul: Steven says that we have an agreement to file bugs once the Accessibility Task Force is engaged.
  276. # [18:08] <manu> Paul: I propose that we extend this action two weeks out
  277. # [18:08] <Zakim> +Rich
  278. # [18:09] * Joins: Dzung_Tran (chatzilla@134.134.139.71)
  279. # [18:09] <manu> Paul: There is an agendum on the task force
  280. # [18:09] <paulc> action-138 due in 2 weeks
  281. # [18:09] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-138.
  282. # [18:09] <trackbot> ACTION-138 Produce a matrix based on Henri's work due date now in 2 weeks
  283. # [18:09] <richardschwerdtfe> agenda?
  284. # [18:09] * Zakim sees nothing on the agenda
  285. # [18:09] <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
  286. # [18:09] <Zakim> -Manu
  287. # [18:09] <manu> Paul: Manu took the action to discuss this on the mailing list
  288. # [18:09] <paulc> Manu's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0420.html
  289. # [18:09] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-76: Need feedback on splitting Microdata into separate specification from Manu Sporny on 2009-10-14 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  290. # [18:09] * plh zakim, unmute me
  291. # [18:09] * Zakim Plh should no longer be muted
  292. # [18:10] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  293. # [18:10] * kliehm @Rich, agenda is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0476.html
  294. # [18:11] <mjs> there's noise on the line
  295. # [18:11] * rubys zakim, who is making noise?
  296. # [18:11] * dsinger someone scraping their mike?
  297. # [18:11] * Zakim rubys, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Joseph_Scheuhammer (17%), Radhika_Roy (53%), Mike (18%)
  298. # [18:11] <Zakim> +Manu
  299. # [18:11] <Laura> zakim, who is on the call?
  300. # [18:11] <Zakim> On the phone I see dsinger (muted), cardona507 (muted), [Microsoft], Joseph_Scheuhammer, Plh, Julian, Eliot_Graff, gsnedders, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft.aa], Shepazu, Mike, Sam,
  301. # [18:11] <Zakim> ... kliehm (muted), +1.415.595.aagg, Radhika_Roy, Rich, Cynthia_Shelly, Manu
  302. # [18:11] <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has adrianba, travil, tross, krisk
  303. # [18:12] <Zakim> Mike has MikeSmith
  304. # [18:12] <paulc> action-139 due in 1 week
  305. # [18:12] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-139.
  306. # [18:12] <trackbot> ACTION-139 Propose 3 separate HTML5 drafts and the external Microdata draft due date now in 1 week
  307. # [18:12] <mjs> q+
  308. # [18:12] * Zakim sees mjs on the speaker queue
  309. # [18:12] <manu> Manu: Discussion is ongoing
  310. # [18:12] <mjs> q-
  311. # [18:12] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  312. # [18:12] <taf2> is Zakim a bot?
  313. # [18:12] <rubys> taf2: yes
  314. # [18:12] <manu> Topic: Agenda Item 2
  315. # [18:12] * dsinger 415 595 aagg should tell zakim who they are
  316. # [18:13] <manu> Paul: How do we generate official Working Draft responses
  317. # [18:13] <Laura> zakim, aagg is me
  318. # [18:13] <Zakim> +Laura; got it
  319. # [18:13] <manu> Paul: Working on documents we might want to review... opened a call for volunteers to review MathML 3.0
  320. # [18:13] * Quits: dsinger (mobile@67.218.106.111) (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://rooms.derflash.de)
  321. # [18:13] <paulc> call for volunteers: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0475.html
  322. # [18:13] <pimpbot> Title: Call for Volunteers: Review of MathML 3.0 Last Call from Paul Cotton on 2009-10-15 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  323. # [18:13] <paulc> to review the MathML 3.0 spec
  324. # [18:14] <manu> Paul: Last week, when we talked about this - we might want to create an issue to switch MathML from v2.0 to v3.0
  325. # [18:14] <manu> Paul: Getting link to the bug 7848...
  326. # [18:14] <pimpbot> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7848 pcotton@microsoft.com, P2, NEW, MathML version used in HTML5
  327. # [18:15] <paulc> action-127 due in 1 week
  328. # [18:15] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-127.
  329. # [18:15] <trackbot> ACTION-127 establish process for "official WG response" to other WG's RFC on LC drafts due date now in 1 week
  330. # [18:15] <manu> Paul: Making progress on this item, we can continue to extend it... looking for volunteers to address this bug
  331. # [18:15] * Joins: annevk2 (opera@83.227.4.198)
  332. # [18:15] * Joins: krisk (836b0069@128.30.52.43)
  333. # [18:15] * MichaelC zakim, call cooper-mit
  334. # [18:15] * Zakim ok, MichaelC; the call is being made
  335. # [18:15] <annevk2> Zakim, passcode?
  336. # [18:15] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), annevk2
  337. # [18:15] <Zakim> +Cooper
  338. # [18:15] * MichaelC zakim, mute me
  339. # [18:15] * Zakim sorry, MichaelC, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
  340. # [18:16] <manu> Topic: Document Last Call process
  341. # [18:16] * annevk2 conference is full?
  342. # [18:16] * kliehm @taf2, Zakim cheatsheet http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Teleconference_cheat_sheet#DURING_THE_MEETING:
  343. # [18:16] * MichaelC zakim, I am Cooper
  344. # [18:16] * Zakim ok, MichaelC, I now associate you with Cooper
  345. # [18:16] <pimpbot> Title: Teleconference cheat sheet - Protocols and Formats Working Group Wiki (at www.w3.org)
  346. # [18:16] <manu> Paul: Give us an update, Maciej
  347. # [18:16] * MichaelC zakim, mute me
  348. # [18:16] * Zakim Cooper should now be muted
  349. # [18:16] <manu> Maciej: The last call comment process
  350. # [18:16] <manu> ... we published a draft for discussion... there was good feedback... changes were made.
  351. # [18:16] <adrianba> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0341.html
  352. # [18:16] <manu> ... fixed a few issues... one significant comment still outstanding.
  353. # [18:16] <pimpbot> Title: RE: [minutes] 20091008 HTML Working Group call from Adrian Bateman on 2009-10-12 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  354. # [18:16] <manu> ... from Adrian bateman.
  355. # [18:17] <manu> ... I'd like to continue the action until next week.
  356. # [18:17] <paulc> action-141 due in 1 week
  357. # [18:17] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-141.
  358. # [18:17] <trackbot> ACTION-141 Document Last Call comment process due date now in 1 week
  359. # [18:17] <manu> Paul: Once we get a revised version, we should get a call for consensus.
  360. # [18:17] <Zakim> +Amit
  361. # [18:17] <annevk2> Zakim, Amit is me
  362. # [18:17] <Zakim> +annevk2; got it
  363. # [18:18] <manu> Manu: I was asked to do a Change Proposal, what should I do?
  364. # [18:18] <rubys> q+
  365. # [18:18] * Zakim sees rubys on the speaker queue
  366. # [18:18] * shepazu is not sure what the problem with filling out a change proposal is...?
  367. # [18:18] <manu> Maciej: You can volunteer to do a CP before the document has a call for consensus.
  368. # [18:18] <paulc> ack rubys
  369. # [18:18] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  370. # [18:18] * Zakim hears Cynthia_Shelly's hand up
  371. # [18:18] <manu> Manu: I'll write up a change proposal.
  372. # [18:18] * Zakim sees Cynthia_Shelly on the speaker queue
  373. # [18:20] <Zakim> -Shepazu
  374. # [18:21] <manu> Maciej: The contents of Manu's proposal doesn't have everything that we'd ask to have in a Change Proposal.
  375. # [18:21] <mjs> http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html#change-proposal
  376. # [18:21] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Working Group Decision Policy (at dev.w3.org)
  377. # [18:21] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.20.4)
  378. # [18:21] <manu> Maciej: There are 4 things that we ask to be in a CP
  379. # [18:21] <Zakim> -dsinger
  380. # [18:21] <Zakim> +[apple]
  381. # [18:22] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
  382. # [18:22] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  383. # [18:22] <manu> Maciej: Indication on how baseline spec was changed.
  384. # [18:22] <gsnedders> Zakim, q?
  385. # [18:22] <Zakim> I see Cynthia_Shelly on the speaker queue
  386. # [18:22] * dsinger nb zakim says the phone conference is full (again) so no-one else can all in right now
  387. # [18:22] <manu> Maciej: Rationale... and impact statement.
  388. # [18:22] * Julian thinks we have all the informatiion required by the CP list
  389. # [18:22] <paulc> ack cyn
  390. # [18:22] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  391. # [18:23] <manu> Cynthia: Is there any place to host a change request at this point?
  392. # [18:23] <manu> Cynthia: How should be submit change proposals?
  393. # [18:23] <manu> Maciej: I'll try to set this up... a wiki... to make this process easier.
  394. # [18:23] * Julian prefers copies sent by email so the text is archived properly
  395. # [18:24] <manu> Cynthia: Comments about process itself.... on PF call, question came up about the one month deadline.
  396. # [18:24] <manu> Cynthia: how does this work with a backlog of issues?
  397. # [18:24] <manu> Maciej: We are not sending a call for volunteers for backlog of issues to ensure that the list doesn't get swamped
  398. # [18:25] <manu> Paul: So, the 30-day date only starts once somebody volunteers to do the task.
  399. # [18:25] <manu> Cynthia: Once an issue has been escalated and had a WG decision.
  400. # [18:25] <manu> Cynthia: Once there is consensus, is there a deadline for the editor to make the change?
  401. # [18:26] <manu> Paul: Don't think so, Maciej?
  402. # [18:26] <manu> Maciej: We can't exit last call until all comments are addressed... so it behooves the editor to address all LC comments.
  403. # [18:27] <manu> Paul: If the editorial team can't keep up, that's a problem.
  404. # [18:27] <manu> Maciej: It depends on the nature of the change proposal.
  405. # [18:28] <manu> Cynthia: I'm concerned that editorial changes may get preference based on the editor's preferences.
  406. # [18:28] <manu> Paul: If that becomes an issue, you should approach the chairs.
  407. # [18:28] <manu> Paul: There are ways the chairs could mitigate the issue.
  408. # [18:28] <manu> Maciej: I agree.
  409. # [18:29] <manu> Paul: Adrians issue is still outstanding, we'll leave the e-mail discussion open until next week
  410. # [18:29] <manu> Paul: Item C - Action-150 create bugzilla entry
  411. # [18:29] <manu> Topic: Item C - Action-150 create bugzilla entry
  412. # [18:29] <manu> Paul: manu created this bug as requested.
  413. # [18:30] <manu> Paul: Maciej asked that the bug become split into separate issues.
  414. # [18:30] <manu> Paul: The discussion could continue on the HTML WG.
  415. # [18:30] <manu> Maciej: It's better to file issues as separate bug reports.
  416. # [18:31] <manu> Maciej: My comments are just a suggestion...
  417. # [18:32] <manu> Maciej: We should close the action... up to Manu how he should proceed.
  418. # [18:32] <paulc> close action-150
  419. # [18:32] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-150.
  420. # [18:32] <trackbot> ACTION-150 Create a bugzilla entry on head/@profile closed
  421. # [18:32] <manu> Manu: I'm concerned with how we deal with as a FPWD.
  422. # [18:33] <manu> Topic: Call for VOlunteers for Test and Accessibility TF
  423. # [18:33] <manu> Paul: We're trying to find volunteers right now
  424. # [18:33] <manu> Topic: Plans for F2F meeting
  425. # [18:33] <manu> Paul: Web poll has said that we might have 25 people + observers in the room
  426. # [18:34] <manu> Paul: We originally reserved the room for 15... how do we have a large enough room?
  427. # [18:34] <manu> Paul: Chairs should take an action to address this issue, if it is an issue
  428. # [18:34] <gsnedders> q+
  429. # [18:34] * Zakim sees gsnedders on the speaker queue
  430. # [18:34] <manu> Paul: don't know how many people have registered as potential observers?
  431. # [18:34] <kliehm> I regret I can't attend TPAC. :-(
  432. # [18:35] <manu> Snedders: We had as many observers last year - 25 observers, 25 members.
  433. # [18:35] <MichaelC> Registrants for HTML: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC09/registrants#html
  434. # [18:35] <manu> Paul: We might encourage some to attend through Thurs/Friday - we should make sure we get the right size of room.
  435. # [18:35] <manu> Cynthia: Room last year worked pretty well last year.
  436. # [18:35] * MichaelC zakim, unmute me
  437. # [18:35] * Zakim Cooper should no longer be muted
  438. # [18:36] <manu> Cynthia: 4-5 rows of seats
  439. # [18:36] * annevk2 it's not publicly visible (well, it asked for a password)
  440. # [18:36] * MichaelC zakim, mute me
  441. # [18:36] * Zakim Cooper should now be muted
  442. # [18:36] <gsnedders> ack me
  443. # [18:36] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  444. # [18:36] <manu> Michael: We have 40-60 people... should work with Mike and Susan to make sure the room is big enough.
  445. # [18:36] <manu> Paul: I'll make sure that I and ???? will take care of this...
  446. # [18:37] <manu> Topic: Joint Meetings
  447. # [18:37] <manu> Paul: Two joint meetings planned
  448. # [18:37] <manu> Paul: First is with TC-39
  449. # [18:37] <manu> Paul: Common topics are more interesting to WebApps than us.
  450. # [18:37] <manu> Paul: That's on Friday
  451. # [18:37] <manu> Paul: TAG has approached the co-chairs about scheduling joint meeting between TAG and HTML WG
  452. # [18:37] * Joins: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.32)
  453. # [18:37] <manu> Paul: They have a slot after lunch on Thursday
  454. # [18:38] <manu> Maciej: The format of the meeting itself...
  455. # [18:38] <manu> Maciej: We haven't decided on a format yet...
  456. # [18:38] <manu> ... we're trying to use the 'unconference' style for the meeting - BarCamp style
  457. # [18:38] <manu> ... short statement introducing the meeting
  458. # [18:39] <manu> ... short 5-10 minute lightning presentation or presenting a breakout session
  459. # [18:39] <manu> ... straw poll of attendees, schedule sessions on the fly
  460. # [18:39] <manu> ... this will work well because people can focus on the areas that they are interested in.
  461. # [18:39] <manu> ... it will help more people attend things they are more interested in.
  462. # [18:40] <manu> ... smaller groups will be more successful at discussing items.
  463. # [18:40] <manu> ... video element came out of last years TPAC using this approach.
  464. # [18:40] <paulc> ACTION: Maciej to outline unconference format for F2F meeting - 1 week
  465. # [18:40] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  466. # [18:40] * RRSAgent records action 3
  467. # [18:40] <trackbot> Created ACTION-153 - Outline unconference format for F2F meeting - 1 week [on Maciej Stachowiak - due 2009-10-22].
  468. # [18:40] * gsnedders (It basically didn't happen last year, FWIW)
  469. # [18:40] <manu> Paul: We need to give you an action to get this format out in from of the working group.
  470. # [18:40] <manu> Paul: Next week we anticipate a call for topics.
  471. # [18:40] <annevk2> unconference++
  472. # [18:41] <gsnedders> (Mini-sessions basically didn't happen last year, FWIW)
  473. # [18:41] <mjs> this was at TPAC 2 years ago, for the record
  474. # [18:41] <mjs> that we did the unconference style
  475. # [18:41] <paulc> ACTION: paulc (or Mike smith) to check on room size and number - 1 week
  476. # [18:41] * RRSAgent records action 4
  477. # [18:41] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  478. # [18:41] <trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - (or Mike smith) to check on room size and number - 1 week [on Paul Cotton - due 2009-10-22].
  479. # [18:41] <manu> Someone: We may want to have multiple groups of 10 people be in separate rooms.
  480. # [18:42] <manu> Paul: We'll see if we can get a large room that we can divide.
  481. # [18:42] <manu> Paul: Mike and I will look into that... any other comments on F2F meeting.
  482. # [18:42] <annevk2> ACTION-154?
  483. # [18:42] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-154
  484. # [18:42] <trackbot> ACTION-154 -- Paul Cotton to (or Mike smith) to check on room size and number - 1 week -- due 2009-10-22 -- OPEN
  485. # [18:42] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/154
  486. # [18:42] <paulc> Scribe for next week?
  487. # [18:42] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-154 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  488. # [18:42] <manu> Paul: Any scribe for next week?
  489. # [18:42] * Joins: taf2_ (taf2@38.99.201.242)
  490. # [18:42] <manu> Paul: Maciej is up for chairing next week.
  491. # [18:43] <manu> Paul: Any objection to adjourning.
  492. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Rich
  493. # [18:43] * dsinger wow, early!
  494. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  495. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Cooper
  496. # [18:43] <Zakim> -kliehm
  497. # [18:44] * paulc ok
  498. # [18:44] <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
  499. # [18:44] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-minutes.html manu
  500. # [18:44] * Quits: taf2 (taf2@38.99.201.242) (Ping timeout)
  501. # [18:44] * taf2_ is now known as taf2
  502. # [18:44] <manu> rrsagent, make log public
  503. # [18:44] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, manu
  504. # [18:44] * Quits: kliehm (kliehm@88.68.46.84) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458])
  505. # [18:44] <Zakim> -cardona507
  506. # [18:44] <Zakim> -Plh
  507. # [18:44] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aa]
  508. # [18:44] <Zakim> -annevk2
  509. # [18:44] <Zakim> -Julian
  510. # [18:44] <Zakim> -[apple]
  511. # [18:44] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  512. # [18:44] <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
  513. # [18:44] <Zakim> -gsnedders
  514. # [18:44] <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
  515. # [18:44] <Zakim> -Laura
  516. # [18:44] <Zakim> -Mike
  517. # [18:44] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.20.4) (Quit: dsinger)
  518. # [18:44] <Zakim> -Manu
  519. # [18:44] * Quits: paulc (4c401052@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
  520. # [18:44] <Zakim> -Sam
  521. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Eliot_Graff
  522. # [18:45] * Quits: Eliot_Graff (EGraff@131.107.0.104) (Quit: Always try to be modest, and be proud about it!)
  523. # [18:48] * Quits: tross (836b0047@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC)
  524. # [18:48] * Parts: Travis (836b0055@128.30.52.43)
  525. # [18:48] * Quits: frankolivier (836b004b@64.62.228.82) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  526. # [18:48] * Parts: krisk (836b0069@128.30.52.43)
  527. # [18:50] * Parts: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30)
  528. # [18:51] * Quits: Dzung_Tran (chatzilla@134.134.139.71) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458])
  529. # [18:53] * gsnedders (I'll help with cleaning up the minutes in ten minutes or so)
  530. # [18:54] * Quits: adrianba (adrianba@131.107.0.103) (Quit: Bye!)
  531. # [18:55] * Quits: Laura (laura@131.212.34.80) (Quit: Laura)
  532. # [18:59] * Quits: drry (drry@211.9.170.91) (Ping timeout)
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  534. # [19:04] * Quits: annevk2 (opera@83.227.4.198) (Quit: annevk2)
  535. # [19:04] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  536. # [19:04] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  537. # [19:04] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.398.aaaa, +1.831.454.aabb, dsinger, [Microsoft], +1.715.718.aacc, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Plh, Eliot_Graff, Julian, Manu, Shepazu, gsnedders, adrianba, travil,
  538. # [19:04] <Zakim> ... tross, krisk, Sam, +049699435aaff, MikeSmith, kliehm, cardona507, +1.415.595.aagg, Radhika_Roy, Rich, Cynthia_Shelly, Laura, Cooper, annevk2
  539. # [19:04] <plh> zakim, bye
  540. # [19:04] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  541. # [19:04] <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
  542. # [19:04] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-minutes.html manu
  543. # [19:04] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 15 Oct 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  544. # [19:14] * Quits: mjs (mjs@69.181.42.237) (Quit: mjs)
  545. # [19:22] * Quits: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.32) (Connection reset by peer)
  546. # [19:23] * Joins: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.32)
  547. # [19:32] <gsnedders> s/discuss where we are with the F2F/discuss where we are at the F2F?/
  548. # [19:32] <gsnedders> s/weeks\?/weeks?/
  549. # [19:34] <gsnedders> s/Manu took the action/item D, Action-139, Manu took the action/
  550. # [19:34] <gsnedders> s/bateman/Bateman/
  551. # [19:35] <gsnedders> s/How should be submit/How should we submit/
  552. # [19:37] <gsnedders> s/I'll try to set this up... a wiki... to make this process easier./I'll try and set up a namespace on the HTML WG wiki for this, to make the process easier... But you can also send it as an email or an attachment./
  553. # [19:38] <gsnedders> s/for backlog of issues to/for the entire backlog of issues to/
  554. # [19:38] <Philip> (A namespace? Heretic!)
  555. # [19:38] <gsnedders> s/Adrians/Adrian's/
  556. # [19:39] <gsnedders> s/manu created/Manu created/
  557. # [19:40] <gsnedders> s/deal with as/deal with the issues as/
  558. # [19:40] * gsnedders does like how he's minuted as "Snedders" :)
  559. # [19:41] <gsnedders> s/We had as many observers last year - 25 observers, 25 members./We had as many observers as working group members last years - around 25 members, 25 observers./
  560. # [19:42] * Joins: annevk2 (opera@83.227.4.198)
  561. # [19:42] <gsnedders> s/4-5 rows of seats/a rectangle of tables, and 4-5 rows of seats at the back/
  562. # [19:43] <gsnedders> s/I and ???? will/I and the other chairs/
  563. # [19:44] <gsnedders> s/years/year's/
  564. # [19:44] <gsnedders> s/Someone:/Anne:/
  565. # [19:45] <gsnedders> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  566. # [19:45] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-minutes.html gsnedders
  567. # [19:45] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 15 Oct 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  568. # [19:46] <gsnedders> Chair: Paul Cotton
  569. # [19:46] <gsnedders> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  570. # [19:46] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-minutes.html gsnedders
  571. # [19:46] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 15 Oct 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  572. # [19:46] * Joins: sbublava (sbublava@77.116.68.244)
  573. # [19:49] <gsnedders> rrsagent, stop
  574. # [19:49] * RRSAgent is not logging
  575. # [19:49] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Can you remove the noise at the start of the log?
  576. # [19:50] <gsnedders> manu: Does that look all right to you?
  577. # [19:50] <Philip> (And the end)
  578. # [19:50] <manu> woops, sorry
  579. # [19:50] <manu> I was elsewhere, just saw your message now, gsnedders...
  580. # [19:50] <manu> one sec, lemme read backwards to see what you're talking about...
  581. # [19:51] * gsnedders only just sent it
  582. # [19:51] * Quits: cardona507 (carloscard@67.180.160.250) (Quit: cardona507)
  583. # [19:51] <gsnedders> Do the edited logs look all right?
  584. # [19:51] <manu> This URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-minutes.html ?
  585. # [19:51] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 15 Oct 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  586. # [19:51] <gsnedders> yeah
  587. # [19:51] <gsnedders> (Well, if MikeSmith removes the noise at start/end)
  588. # [19:52] <manu> right, so I'm not certain how HTML WG formats the minutes... but the following things jump out at me:
  589. # [19:52] <manu> the Present/Regrets list looks wrong
  590. # [19:53] <manu> the Action Items are wrong...
  591. # [19:53] <gsnedders> As far as I can tell, it depends on who does the minutes :)
  592. # [19:53] <manu> ha, well, I did them wrong, then.
  593. # [19:53] <gsnedders> (And they're quite often a lot worse than that)
  594. # [19:53] <annevk2> typically nobody cares
  595. # [19:53] <gsnedders> There's no real consistency, so I'm not sure you can be wrong. :)
  596. # [19:53] <annevk2> so typically I don't bother to fix stuff like that
  597. # [19:54] <manu> hrm... let me check some stuff... make sure I didn't screw up the action items...
  598. # [19:56] <manu> Chair: Paul_Cotton
  599. # [19:56] * gsnedders wonders why the need for the underscore
  600. # [19:58] <manu> habit - When you don't use underscores in the present list, rrsagent treats it as two different people, so - Paul Cotton would be two people - "Paul" and "Cotton"
  601. # [19:58] <manu> I don't think you need it for Chair: ... let's see
  602. # [19:58] <manu> Chair: Paul Cotton
  603. # [19:58] <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
  604. # [19:58] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-minutes.html manu
  605. # [19:58] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 15 Oct 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  606. # [19:58] <gsnedders> I had it like that before :)
  607. # [19:58] <manu> no need for underscores...
  608. # [19:58] <manu> in 'Chair:', specifically
  609. # [19:59] <gsnedders> Right, I know it's often used elsewhere
  610. # [19:59] <gsnedders> (I don't think it's required anywhere)
  611. # [20:02] <manu> damn, time pressures - gotta go
  612. # [20:02] <manu> The minutes look good Geoffrey - thanks a bunch for cleaning them up
  613. # [20:02] <manu> :)
  614. # [20:02] <manu> Oh a completely unrelated note, I need to chat with you about Anolis at some point in the future...
  615. # [20:03] <manu> Specifically about asking if it can generate HTML 4.01(strict.dtd)...
  616. # [20:03] <manu> I was asked to re-format the HTML+RDFa spec as HTML 4.01 for publishing (it didn't pass W3C pubrules as HTML5)
  617. # [20:04] <manu> Sooo, I had to pass it through tidy... which generated 4.01 (transitional.dtd), not (strict.dtd).
  618. # [20:04] <manu> I was wondering if there was some magic flag I could pass to it that would generate an HTML5 document that Tidy could clean into a HTML4.01 strict document?
  619. # [20:04] <manu> or if there was a HTML 4.01 (strict.dtd) output option?
  620. # [20:05] <manu> rrsagent, bye
  621. # [20:05] <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-html-wg-actions.rdf :
  622. # [20:05] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to create a bugzilla entry on head/@profile [1]
  623. # [20:05] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-html-wg-irc#T16-30-41
  624. # [20:05] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Paul to enter a bugzilla entry on MathML 3.0 [2]
  625. # [20:05] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/08-html-wg-irc#T16-33-46
  626. # [20:05] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Maciej to outline unconference format for F2F meeting - 1 week [3]
  627. # [20:05] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-irc#T16-41-12
  628. # [20:05] <RRSAgent> ACTION: paulc (or Mike smith) to check on room size and number - 1 week [4]
  629. # [20:05] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-irc#T16-42-00
  630. # [20:05] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  631. # [20:06] <manu> Also, why does Anolis strip '"' characters around attribute values in the generated document?
  632. # [20:07] <manu> ... and do you prefer to be refered to as Geoffrey, Geoff, gsnedders or Sneddon?
  633. # [20:07] <manu> gotta go, I'll check this window in 2 hours... ciao.
  634. # [20:13] * Quits: manu (chatzilla@206.158.104.51) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceweasel 3.0.12/2009082121])
  635. # [20:14] * Joins: manu (chatzilla@206.158.104.51)
  636. # [20:23] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.203.15.228)
  637. # [20:23] <mjs> manu: are you still around?
  638. # [20:23] <annevk2> two hours from now
  639. # [20:25] <mjs> I see
  640. # [20:25] <mjs> I'll look for him when he gets back
  641. # [20:34] * Quits: myakura (myakura@114.163.221.102) (Connection reset by peer)
  642. # [20:35] * Quits: annevk2 (opera@83.227.4.198) (Quit: annevk2)
  643. # [20:40] <gsnedders> manu: Anolis runs a full parser and serializer (by default in the form of html5lib, which has a bunch of options which control how the serializing is done, including that of quotation marks around attr values)
  644. # [20:40] <gsnedders> manu: The issues with the DOCTYPE are a issue with html5lib (which I had some intention of working on soon). It should work with HTML 4.01 fine, though, if you manually re-add the DOCTYPE.
  645. # [20:41] <gsnedders> manu: As for name, Geoffrey, gsnedders, Snedders… it's all fine… Just not Geoff. :)
  646. # [20:42] <gsnedders> manu: If there are any other issues with using HTML 4.01 apart from the DOCTYPE, send me an email or ping me on IRC
  647. # [20:48] * Parts: rubys (rubys@65.190.139.141)
  648. # [20:54] <Philip> Isn't there some command-line option to change the quoting behaviour?
  649. # [20:55] <jgraham> Philip: yes
  650. # [20:55] <jgraham> Also thre is an option in pimpmyspec.net
  651. # [20:55] <Philip> manu: You could use some command-line option to change the quoting behaviour
  652. # [21:01] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmithX@mcclure.w3.org) (Ping timeout)
  653. # [21:03] * Quits: taf2 (taf2@38.99.201.242) (Quit: taf2)
  654. # [21:16] <manu> Geoffrey: Thanks for the info... also thanks Philip. jgraham
  655. # [21:16] <manu> jgraham: What's the command line option to change the quoting behavior?
  656. # [21:17] <manu> mjs: I have a dev meeting in 5 minutes... but should be done in an hour - if you could put your concerns in this chat window, I could respond to them after I'm done with the dev meeting.
  657. # [21:18] <jgraham> manu: I don't recall of he top of my head gsnedders might know, or the documentation is linked from pimpmyspec.net
  658. # [21:18] <jgraham> or try --help
  659. # [21:18] <manu> not in --help, afaict
  660. # [21:18] <gsnedders> serializer options aren't in help
  661. # [21:18] <jgraham> gsnedders: Oh
  662. # [21:18] <manu> also tried looking at the source for a bit... wasn't evident from there either.
  663. # [21:18] <jgraham> Well that sucks
  664. # [21:18] <gsnedders> Can't remember what it is either though
  665. # [21:19] <mjs> manu: ping me after your meeting please, if you have time then
  666. # [21:19] <gsnedders> manu: look in the "anolis" file itself
  667. # [21:19] <mjs> manu: would like to chat briefly in an interactive medium
  668. # [21:19] <manu> mjs: sure - via IRC? or other method?
  669. # [21:19] <mjs> manu: IRC is fine by me, or we can use phone or AIM or voice chat or whatever you like
  670. # [21:19] <mjs> as long as it's realtime
  671. # [21:19] * jgraham discovers the documentation isn't linked at all
  672. # [21:20] <manu> mjs: I have 3 minutes before this meeting - could we do 4:15pm?
  673. # [21:20] <jgraham> manu: --quote-attr-values I think
  674. # [21:20] <manu> mjs: IRC is fine - this channel... does that work for you?
  675. # [21:20] <gsnedders> manu: --quote-attr-values
  676. # [21:20] <gsnedders> jgraham: heh
  677. # [21:20] <manu> jgraham: thanks :)
  678. # [21:20] <mjs> manu: just ping me when you're free - shouldn't take more than 10-20 minutes
  679. # [21:21] <manu> ack
  680. # [21:21] <mjs> manu: 4:15 is ok though it will make my life easier if it's earlier than that
  681. # [21:21] <jgraham> gsnedders: Those are some of the most useful options they shoudn't be supressed in the help
  682. # [21:21] <jgraham> +;
  683. # [21:21] <gsnedders> jgraham: The problem is how to make it clear they only apply to one serializer
  684. # [21:21] <manu> sorry Maciej - got company stuff to take care of before 4:15pm - I'll ping you then... and if that's not a good time, just catch me on Skype: manusporny at your convenience...
  685. # [21:22] <manu> I'm free from 4:15pm-6:15pm EST today.
  686. # [21:22] <mjs> manu: basically I'd like to explain my reasoning for suggesting various actions to you, and also hear out your concerns
  687. # [21:22] <gsnedders> manu: http://hg.gsnedders.com/anolis/file/e75817a809b8/anolis#l155
  688. # [21:22] <pimpbot> Title: anolis: anolis@e75817a809b8 (at hg.gsnedders.com)
  689. # [21:22] <mjs> manu: I can wait until tomorrow, I'm not in a rush, just seems like something better handled in realtime
  690. # [21:22] <mjs> manu: I don't use Skype but I'm sure we'll figure something out - good luck w/ your meetings and such
  691. # [21:23] <manu> mjs: agreed and sounds good - it would be a good discussion to have, get everyone aligned with how we're going to proceed with these contentious items.
  692. # [21:23] * manu is afk.
  693. # [21:26] <jgraham> gsnedders: Possibly you can make it say "html5lib serializer options (only apply with --serializer=html5lib)"
  694. # [21:32] * Joins: taf2 (taf2@38.99.201.242)
  695. # [21:32] * Quits: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.32) (Ping timeout)
  696. # [21:35] <gsnedders> jgraham: Couldn't work out how.
  697. # [21:51] <pimpbot> planet: put unminified html5-video.js in the right place <http://hg.diveintohtml5.org/hgweb.cgi/rev/ae6cdb74b54d0a3d0feb8420f3331d304d28b3a1>
  698. # [22:06] * Joins: J_Voracek (irchon@166.205.7.62)
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  700. # [22:08] * Joins: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.32)
  701. # [22:15] * Quits: taf2 (taf2@38.99.201.242) (Quit: taf2)
  702. # [22:16] <manu> mjs: I'm back...
  703. # [22:17] <mjs> hi manu!
  704. # [22:17] <manu> voice or IRC? Voice == more bandwidth for discussion.
  705. # [22:17] <manu> hi :)
  706. # [22:17] <manu> depends on how much time you have...
  707. # [22:17] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7932] New: element.properties says "If the element has an item attribute". The item attribute is now called itemscope. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0203.html> ** [Bug 7931] New: The "loop" label in the 'A start tag whose tag name is "li"' is misplaced, or there is something else wrong that is making the loop useless. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0202.html>
  708. # [22:17] <manu> I have 2 hours...
  709. # [22:17] <mjs> I can spend approx half an hour to 45 minutes now
  710. # [22:17] <mjs> but it should not take even that long (I hope)
  711. # [22:17] <manu> ok phone or IRC? I can call you if needed.
  712. # [22:32] * Quits: sbublava (sbublava@77.116.68.244) (Quit: sbublava)
  713. # [22:47] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: xref typo (whatwg r4144) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Oct/0065.html>
  714. # [22:55] * Quits: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.32) (Ping timeout)
  715. # [22:56] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  716. # [22:59] * Quits: manu (chatzilla@206.158.104.51) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceweasel 3.0.12/2009082121])
  717. # [23:17] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7927] widht/height says "map to the dimension properties" but the link goes to "maps to the pixel length property" <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0204.html>
  718. # [23:32] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169) (Quit: tlr)
  719. # [23:44] * Quits: plh (plh@128.30.52.28) (Quit: always accept cookies)
  720. # [23:51] <pimpbot> planet: SVG not working when access on localhost. Why? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1574967/svg-not-working-when-access-on-localhost-why>
  721. # [23:55] * Joins: aroben (aroben@67.218.106.159)
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  723. # Session Close: Fri Oct 16 00:00:00 2009

The end :)