/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-12-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Dec 03 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  12. # [02:22] * Topic is 'Pursuing conformance solutions for the N-body gravitational system known as "the Web", and in general, collectively performing various acts of unparalleled hubris (This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/)'
  13. # [02:22] * Set by MikeSmith on Thu Jun 18 06:02:08
  14. # [02:23] * joe is now known as JoePeck
  15. # [02:26] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: another inappropriate mention for the complete spec. (whatwg r4396) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Dec/0006.html>
  16. # [02:26] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8425] New: Cloning a DOMString with unpaired surrogates should throw SYNTAX_ERR, to allow UAs to serialise structured clones as UTF-8. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0042.html>
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  35. # [04:56] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8426] New: Description says "five minutes" example equates to "ten minutes" <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0043.html>
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  38. # [05:33] <CIA-1> v.nu-syntax: sideshowbarker * r509 /trunk/relaxng/warnings.sch: [.sch files] made some minor wording additions to bring the Schematron warnings into sync with the Java warnings
  39. # [05:33] <CIA-1> v.nu-syntax: sideshowbarker * r510 /trunk/relaxng/warnings.sch:
  40. # [05:33] <CIA-1> v.nu-syntax: [.sch] tentatively put role=warning on all messages in warnings.sch, inspired by recent enhancement in oXygen and in anticipation that other Schematron implementations might add support for the role=warning convention
  41. # [05:33] <CIA-1> v.nu-syntax: http://www.oxygenxml.com/pipermail/oxygen-user/2009-November/002902.html
  42. # [05:33] <pimpbot> Title: [oXygen-user] Schematron validation "errors" enhancement (at www.oxygenxml.com)
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  69. # [11:28] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8427] New: Typo in "The PropertyNodeList object can be used to obtained all the values at once". s/obtained/obtain/ <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0044.html>
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  72. # [12:06] <jgraham> Julian: If you are really worried about wasting time reviewing microdata why are you spending so much time on it?
  73. # [12:10] * Joins: tH (Rob@82.4.89.172)
  74. # [12:17] <Julian> because I think having it in the spec is harmful both for the spec, and the credibility of the WG.
  75. # [12:17] <Julian> also, because timbl said so. :-)
  76. # [12:18] <Hixie> how is it harmful to the credibility of the wg?
  77. # [12:18] <jgraham> Given all the other ways that the WG tries to harm its own credibility I hardly think having Microdata or not can be a significant effect ;)
  78. # [12:20] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169) (Quit: tlr)
  79. # [12:21] <jgraham> (but like Hixie I really don't understand why you think it would be)
  80. # [12:28] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8428] New: The first document.getItems() example should use the type "http://example.org/animals#cat" instead of "http://example.com/feline" <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0045.html>
  81. # [12:30] <karl> http://qa-dev.w3.org/wmvs/HEAD/whatsnew.html#v086
  82. # [12:30] <pimpbot> Title: What's New at The W3C Markup Validation Service (at qa-dev.w3.org)
  83. # [12:32] <mjs> one frankly political concern relating to microdata is that if we keep it in we may see opposition to advancing the spec from the TAG, the Director, and possibly other parts of the W3C hierarchy
  84. # [12:32] <mjs> however that is not in any way a technical argument
  85. # [12:35] <Lachy> Can someone add my esw wiki username (LachlanHunt) to this list? http://esw.w3.org/topic/ESWEditorsGroup
  86. # [12:36] <pimpbot> Title: ESWEditorsGroup - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
  87. # [12:36] <jgraham> mjs: I would rather see those people make actual reasoned arguments for any objections than preempt their objections and lose out on the feedback
  88. # [12:37] <mjs> jgraham: that is a reasonable point
  89. # [12:38] <mjs> so far the rationale given by the Change Proposal for removing microdata did not include mention of the opposition of particular persons or groups
  90. # [12:38] <mjs> so that argument is not actually before the WG
  91. # [12:38] <karl> huh esw has changed its editing policy? too much spam? :)
  92. # [12:38] <mjs> Lachy: added you - not sure it will work
  93. # [12:39] <karl> it seems I can't edit my own page :)
  94. # [12:39] <Lachy> mjs, nope. Pages are still immutable. Does it take some time for changes to propagate?
  95. # [12:39] <mjs> Lachy: I don't know
  96. # [12:39] <mjs> I am not sure why it was broken for Tab, or if there is supposed to be delay, or what
  97. # [12:40] <Lachy> well, I'm not too concerned. I don't have any edits to make right now anyway
  98. # [12:40] <mjs> Lachy: I made a test account today and added it to the list, and it appears to have proper editing privileges
  99. # [12:58] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Remove completely bogus example. (whatwg r4398) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Dec/0007.html>
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  103. # [13:08] <anne> I don't get why almost everyone is hyperlinked on that page but I am not
  104. # [13:08] <anne> yet I do have page...
  105. # [13:11] <mjs> anne: I think perhaps because your username is not a proper WikiWord
  106. # [13:12] <mjs> this seems to be the most likely reason, looking at the names of other people that are not hyperlinked
  107. # [13:12] <Lachy> ah, yeah, it's one of those stupid wiki systems without a broken linking mechanism
  108. # [13:12] <Lachy> *with
  109. # [13:12] <mjs> you can explicitly link things too
  110. # [13:12] <anne> mkay
  111. # [13:12] <mjs> it's just that all the links on that page are created by the default WikiWord autolinking
  112. # [13:13] <anne> I don't strongly care I think
  113. # [13:14] <Philip> Maybe you need to log out and in again, to get updated permissions?
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  116. # [13:21] <anne> Philip, was that to me?
  117. # [13:21] * anne has editprivs
  118. # [13:22] <Philip> It was to anyone who says they're on the list but can't edit pages
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  122. # [13:51] <pimpbot> planet: html5 websocket need server? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1530023/html5-websocket-need-server>
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  124. # [14:44] <MikeSmith> Lachy: are you able to edit any pages on the ESW Wiki?
  125. # [14:47] <Lachy> MikeSmith, I am able to now
  126. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> OK
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  137. # [16:29] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 5821] meta/@scheme missing <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0046.html>
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  145. # [16:59] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8430] New: 3.5.4 Minor typo 'thee' instead of 'the'. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0047.html>
  146. # [17:00] <Julian> anne, opera 10.10's XHR still rewrites unknown method names silently to GET.
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  151. # [17:28] <anne> Julian, I know
  152. # [17:34] <Julian> anne, good; please make sure that it stays on the TODO list :-)
  153. # [17:38] <anne> there's not much I have to do about that
  154. # [17:42] <Julian> well maybe you should...
  155. # [17:43] * Joins: myakura (myakura@114.165.33.197)
  156. # [17:44] <Julian> (a colleague of mine just pointed out that it could be worse; how about silently rewriting a POST?) .-)
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  158. # [17:56] <mjs> good morning folks
  159. # [17:57] <anne> regrets for today
  160. # [17:57] <anne> and good morning obviously :)
  161. # [17:57] <anne> well, afternoon here
  162. # [17:58] <cardona507> good morning :)
  163. # [17:58] * Joins: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30)
  164. # [17:58] * MikeSmith heads off to beer up before the call
  165. # [17:58] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@82.44.68.200)
  166. # [17:58] * Joins: dsinger_ (mobile@67.218.103.98)
  167. # [17:58] <dsinger_> zakim, mute dsinger
  168. # [17:58] * Joins: richardschwerdtfe (RichS@99.39.114.91)
  169. # [17:59] <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
  170. # [17:59] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  171. # [17:59] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  172. # [17:59] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-html-wg-irc
  173. # [17:59] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  174. # [17:59] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  175. # [17:59] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  176. # [17:59] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
  177. # [17:59] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  178. # [17:59] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  179. # [17:59] <trackbot> Date: 03 December 2009
  180. # [17:59] <dsinger_> zakim, mute dsinger
  181. # [17:59] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
  182. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
  183. # [17:59] <cardona507> zakim, mute cardona507
  184. # [17:59] <Zakim> sorry, cardona507, I do not know which phone connection belongs to cardona507
  185. # [17:59] * Joins: janina (janina@66.92.170.178)
  186. # [17:59] <Zakim> - +1.831.454.aaaa
  187. # [18:00] <dsinger_> zakim, who is here?
  188. # [18:00] <Zakim> On the phone I see dsinger (muted), Rich, Gregory_Rosmaita
  189. # [18:00] * Joins: rubys1 (rubys@65.190.139.141)
  190. # [18:00] <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, richardschwerdtfe, dsinger_, Stevef, MichaelC, cardona507, myakura, mjs, Laura, LeifHS, oedipus, aroben, miketaylr, kliehm, MikeSmith, gavin,
  191. # [18:00] <janina> zakim, call janina
  192. # [18:00] <Zakim> ... tlr, tH, JoePeck, ROBOd, trackbot, Julian, karl, dsinger, krijnh, shepazu, anne, Yudai, gavin_, hsivonen, Dashiva, jmb, inimino, syp, pimpbot, hober, jgraham, matt, Hixie,
  193. # [18:00] <Zakim> ... gsnedders, Philip, CIA-1, ed_work, xover
  194. # [18:00] <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
  195. # [18:00] <Zakim> +Janina
  196. # [18:00] <Zakim> +Sam
  197. # [18:00] * MichaelC zakim, code?
  198. # [18:00] * Zakim saw 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152) given for the conference code, MichaelC
  199. # [18:00] * Joins: weinig (weinig@71.198.185.234)
  200. # [18:00] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
  201. # [18:00] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  202. # [18:00] <Zakim> +Mike
  203. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  204. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.831.454.aabb
  205. # [18:01] <cardona507> zakim, +1.831.454.aabb is me
  206. # [18:01] <Zakim> +cardona507; got it
  207. # [18:01] <Stevef> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
  208. # [18:01] <Zakim> +Stevef; got it
  209. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aacc
  210. # [18:01] <Zakim> +kliehm
  211. # [18:01] <cardona507> zakim, mute me
  212. # [18:01] <Zakim> cardona507 should now be muted
  213. # [18:01] <MichaelC> zakim, aacc is Michael_Cooper
  214. # [18:01] <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
  215. # [18:01] * kliehm zakim, mute me
  216. # [18:01] * Zakim kliehm should now be muted
  217. # [18:02] <Zakim> + +49.251.280.aadd
  218. # [18:03] <Julian> Zakim, +49.251.280.aadd is me
  219. # [18:03] <Zakim> +Julian; got it
  220. # [18:03] * dsinger_ what does 11 at the front of the topic mean?
  221. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  222. # [18:03] <Zakim> +Matt_May
  223. # [18:04] * Quits: kliehm (kliehm@80.146.185.162) (Client exited)
  224. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.415.595.aaee
  225. # [18:04] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  226. # [18:04] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.226.207.11) (Ping timeout)
  227. # [18:04] <mjs> Zakim, +1.415.595.aaee is me
  228. # [18:04] <Zakim> +mjs; got it
  229. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.715.718.aaff
  230. # [18:05] <mjs> ny volunteers to scribe?
  231. # [18:05] <Zakim> - +1.715.718.aaff
  232. # [18:05] <rubys1> zakim, pick a script
  233. # [18:05] <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick a script', rubys1
  234. # [18:05] <mjs> Zakim, choose victim
  235. # [18:05] <Zakim> I don't understand 'choose victim', mjs
  236. # [18:05] <rubys1> zakim, pick a scribe
  237. # [18:05] <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Michael_Cooper
  238. # [18:06] <oedipus> zakim, victim?
  239. # [18:06] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, oedipus.
  240. # [18:06] * MichaelC great... it picked me recently, but ok
  241. # [18:06] <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
  242. # [18:06] * MichaelC not good voice input audio right now, but I can hear ok
  243. # [18:06] <rubys1> trackbot, start meeting
  244. # [18:06] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  245. # [18:06] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  246. # [18:06] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  247. # [18:06] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
  248. # [18:06] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  249. # [18:06] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  250. # [18:06] <trackbot> Date: 03 December 2009
  251. # [18:06] * Joins: li (c698f03e@128.30.52.43)
  252. # [18:07] * MichaelC agenda?
  253. # [18:07] * Zakim sees nothing on the agenda
  254. # [18:07] <dsinger_> zakim, unmute dsinger
  255. # [18:07] <Zakim> dsinger should no longer be muted
  256. # [18:07] <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009OctDec/0019.html
  257. # [18:07] <pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-12-3: issues, action items, calls for consensus/proposals, task force reports from Maciej Stachowiak on 2009-12-02 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from October to December 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  258. # [18:07] <MichaelC> chair: Maciej_Stachowiak
  259. # [18:08] <dsinger_> zakim, mute dsinger
  260. # [18:08] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
  261. # [18:08] <mjs> trackbot: close ACTION-130
  262. # [18:08] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-130.
  263. # [18:08] <trackbot> ACTION-130 Review status of video codec positions closed
  264. # [18:08] <MichaelC> topic: Review of due and overdue action items
  265. # [18:08] * Quits: li (c698f03e@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
  266. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.715.718.aagg
  267. # [18:08] <MichaelC> ACTION-130 done
  268. # [18:09] <Laura> img Element Change Proposal
  269. # [18:09] <Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20091203
  270. # [18:09] <MichaelC> ACTION-131: Change proposal sent http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Dec/0101.html
  271. # [18:09] * trackbot attempting to add comment notes to ACTION-131.
  272. # [18:09] <trackbot> ACTION-131 Draft ALT spec notes added
  273. # [18:09] <pimpbot> Title: HTML/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20091203 - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
  274. # [18:09] <pimpbot> Title: change proposal:modification to section 4.8.2.1 the img element from Steven Faulkner on 2009-12-03 (public-html@w3.org from December 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  275. # [18:09] * Joins: li (c698f03e@128.30.52.43)
  276. # [18:10] * Joins: CGI163 (836b0067@128.30.52.43)
  277. # [18:10] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  278. # [18:10] <MichaelC> sf: <summarizes>
  279. # [18:10] <mjs> trackbot: close ACTION-131
  280. # [18:10] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-131.
  281. # [18:10] <trackbot> ACTION-131 Draft ALT spec closed
  282. # [18:10] <MichaelC> ms: can close action now that proposal posted
  283. # [18:10] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.226.207.11)
  284. # [18:11] <MichaelC> ACTION-138 still ongoing
  285. # [18:11] <Zakim> +li
  286. # [18:11] <MichaelC> sf: Discussed matrix in A11Y TF just before this call
  287. # [18:11] <Laura> Zakim, aagg is me
  288. # [18:11] <Zakim> +Laura; got it
  289. # [18:11] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  290. # [18:11] <MichaelC> actively working on in TF
  291. # [18:12] <MichaelC> ms: timeline to completion?
  292. # [18:12] <MichaelC> sf: Today was first discussion in TF, not sure of timeline
  293. # [18:12] <MichaelC> perhaps 1 month? should coordinate with A11Y TF facilitators
  294. # [18:12] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-html-a11y-minutes.html
  295. # [18:12] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference -- 03 Dec 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  296. # [18:12] * Quits: dsinger_ (mobile@67.218.103.98) (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
  297. # [18:12] * Quits: richardschwerdtfe (RichS@99.39.114.91) (Quit: richardschwerdtfe)
  298. # [18:13] <MichaelC> MikeS: Planning to discuss over next week in A11Y TF
  299. # [18:13] * Joins: kliehm (kliehm@80.146.185.162)
  300. # [18:13] <MichaelC> could give an update next week, though it probably won't be complete then
  301. # [18:13] * kliehm zakim, who is on the phone?
  302. # [18:13] * Zakim sees on the phone: dsinger (muted), Rich, Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina, Sam, Mike, Stevef, cardona507 (muted), Michael_Cooper, kliehm (muted), Julian, Matt_May, mjs, Laura, li,
  303. # [18:13] * Zakim ... [Microsoft]
  304. # [18:13] <MichaelC> Maciej: this has bumped week to week for months, would prefer to have a single deadline
  305. # [18:13] <MichaelC> Gregory: Task force just starting...
  306. # [18:14] <MichaelC> Janina: Early-mid January is earliest feasible time
  307. # [18:14] <MichaelC> MikeS: January 14 2010
  308. # [18:15] <MichaelC> SteveF: much work already done, some ready for review now
  309. # [18:15] <MichaelC> Maciej: helpful to post what you have as soon as possible
  310. # [18:16] <MichaelC> know some issues in play that good to discuss
  311. # [18:16] <MichaelC> updating due date of action
  312. # [18:16] <MichaelC> ACTION-158 not complete yet
  313. # [18:17] <MichaelC> SteveF: action from TPAC, haven't gotten to yet
  314. # [18:17] <MichaelC> need extra time to work on some things, and also want to bring to A11Y TF
  315. # [18:17] <Zakim> +Masinter
  316. # [18:18] <MichaelC> Maciej: deadline?
  317. # [18:18] <MichaelC> SteveF: 31 December 2010
  318. # [18:18] * Joins: masinter (user@98.207.107.29)
  319. # [18:18] <MichaelC> topic: Review of submitted change proposals
  320. # [18:18] * Quits: oedipus (4615bbaa@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06))
  321. # [18:18] * Joins: oedipus (4615bbaa@128.30.52.43)
  322. # [18:19] * Joins: mhakkinen (opera@76.99.234.187)
  323. # [18:19] * Joins: richardschwerdtfe (RichS@99.39.114.91)
  324. # [18:19] <cardona507> i have a question
  325. # [18:19] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-4 (html-versioning)==
  326. # [18:19] <cardona507> I am on mute so I will type
  327. # [18:20] <cardona507> i am kind of unlclear - is <!doctype html> stll ok?
  328. # [18:20] <masinter> yes
  329. # [18:20] <masinter> and recommended in most situations
  330. # [18:20] <cardona507> thanks larry
  331. # [18:20] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  332. # [18:20] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
  333. # [18:20] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  334. # [18:20] <MichaelC> Maciej: change proposal makes versioning optional but not mandatory, so yes to above question
  335. # [18:20] <Zakim> -dsinger
  336. # [18:21] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-30 (longdesc)==
  337. # [18:21] <MichaelC> Maciej: Charles submitted a change proposal a while back
  338. # [18:21] <MichaelC> makes longdesc nonconforming but optional
  339. # [18:21] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-32 (table-summary)==
  340. # [18:22] <MichaelC> Maciej: Cynthia posted a proposal with a number of changes
  341. # [18:22] <MichaelC> chairs have given structural feedback, expect revision soon
  342. # [18:22] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-56 (urls-webarch)==
  343. # [18:22] <MichaelC> Maciej: Proposal to change normative references
  344. # [18:23] <MichaelC> some discussion has taken place
  345. # [18:23] * Quits: JoePeck (JoePeck@74.69.85.249) (Quit: JoePeck)
  346. # [18:23] * CGI163 is now known as krisk
  347. # [18:23] <MichaelC> speaker1: Suggest people join IRI mailing list to help resolve some of the issues
  348. # [18:24] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-76 (Microdata/RDFa)==
  349. # [18:24] <masinter> s/speaker1/Larry/
  350. # [18:24] <MichaelC> Maciej: Proposal was to publish separate draft
  351. # [18:24] <MichaelC> now there's a propsal to retain within HTML
  352. # [18:24] <MichaelC> there's been discussion on the mailing list
  353. # [18:24] <oedipus> my phone is dying - will rejoin soon
  354. # [18:24] <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
  355. # [18:24] <Julian> q+
  356. # [18:24] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  357. # [18:25] <MichaelC> speaker2: Was proposal to move to separate draft, or just remove altogether?
  358. # [18:25] <MichaelC> Maciej: Proposal was to move to external document but not remove altogether
  359. # [18:25] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-83 (dt-dd-semantics)==
  360. # [18:26] <MichaelC> Maciej: Proposal to not use dt/dd for <figure>
  361. # [18:26] <MichaelC> proposed a new element in place
  362. # [18:26] <MichaelC> chairs have sent structural feedback
  363. # [18:26] <mjs> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html
  364. # [18:26] <pimpbot> Title: Change Proposal Status (at dev.w3.org)
  365. # [18:27] <MichaelC> Maciej: above link shows status is change proposals in play
  366. # [18:27] <MichaelC> probably won't go through individually each week
  367. # [18:27] <MichaelC> just new ones going forward
  368. # [18:27] <Julian> q-
  369. # [18:27] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  370. # [18:27] <MichaelC> speaker3: What are next steps?
  371. # [18:28] <Julian> s/speaker3/Julian/
  372. # [18:28] <MichaelC> Maciej: chairs to review level of consensus and strength of arguments
  373. # [18:28] <MichaelC> help decide which ones to advance
  374. # [18:29] <MichaelC> Julian: What is a change proposal that proposes not doing anything?
  375. # [18:29] <MichaelC> Maciej: Originated with ones in response to editor action on a bug entry
  376. # [18:30] <MichaelC> Julian: Would there be counter-proposals for each proposal?
  377. # [18:30] <MichaelC> Maciej: We might expect this
  378. # [18:30] <Julian> s/Julian/Larry/ (in the last two lines)
  379. # [18:31] <MichaelC> Larry: Is this part of the documented decision process
  380. # [18:31] <MichaelC> s/Julian: Would/Larry: Would/
  381. # [18:31] <MichaelC> s/Julian: What/Larry: What/
  382. # [18:31] <Zakim> -Mike
  383. # [18:31] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
  384. # [18:31] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  385. # [18:31] <Zakim> +Mike
  386. # [18:31] <MichaelC> Maciej: <scribe missed>, but let's take questions offline
  387. # [18:32] <MichaelC> topic: Review of Chair calls for consensus / proposals
  388. # [18:32] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-7 (video-codecs)==
  389. # [18:32] <MichaelC> If we don't receive change proposal by today (3 Dec) will close issue without prejudice
  390. # [18:33] <MichaelC> speaker4: There was a proposal to move video element to a separate document
  391. # [18:33] <MichaelC> Maciej: haven't yet received a formal change proposal on that
  392. # [18:33] <MichaelC> people can submit if they want, by end of today
  393. # [18:33] <Laura> Change Proposal Template: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ChangeProposalTemplate
  394. # [18:33] <pimpbot> Title: HTML/ChangeProposalTemplate - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
  395. # [18:34] <MichaelC> speaker4: thought that would be a way to resolve the codec issue on a different schedule from the rest of HTML
  396. # [18:34] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-63 (origin-req-scope)==
  397. # [18:35] <MichaelC> Maciej: due today 3 Dec, will close without prejudice if no change proposal received
  398. # [18:35] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-76 (Microdata/RDFa) counter-proposals==
  399. # [18:35] <MichaelC> maciej: received one counter-proposal yesterday
  400. # [18:35] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-1 (PINGPOST)==
  401. # [18:35] <MichaelC> Maciej: Need change proposals by 17 Dec
  402. # [18:36] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-2 (PINGUI)==
  403. # [18:36] <MichaelC> Maciej: Need change proposals by 17 Dec
  404. # [18:36] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-27 (rel-ownership)==
  405. # [18:36] <MichaelC> Maciej: Need change proposals by 17 Dec
  406. # [18:36] * Joins: frankolivier (836b0067@64.62.228.82)
  407. # [18:36] <MichaelC> Paul Cotton has volunteered to submit one
  408. # [18:36] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-87 (attr-normalization)==
  409. # [18:36] <MichaelC> Maciej: Need change proposals by 17 Dec
  410. # [18:36] <MichaelC> ==ISSUE-88 (content-language-multiple)==
  411. # [18:37] <MichaelC> Maciej: Leif Halvard Silli has volunteered to submit a proposal by 17 Jan 2010
  412. # [18:37] <MichaelC> that's more than a month but the holidays intervene
  413. # [18:37] <MichaelC> If you care about the issues above, please take action by the deadlines
  414. # [18:37] <MichaelC> speaker4: Clarify closed without prejudice?
  415. # [18:38] <Julian> s/speaker4: Clarify/Larry: Clarify/
  416. # [18:38] <MichaelC> Maciej: Will close in Tracker, and won't consider the issue a blocker for advancement to LC
  417. # [18:38] <MichaelC> if a proposal later comes in, it can be considered
  418. # [18:39] <MichaelC> we need a clear proposal and rationale
  419. # [18:39] <MichaelC> chairs will not try to dig up old discussions
  420. # [18:39] <MichaelC> topic: New issues this week
  421. # [18:39] <MichaelC> Maciej: none we know of
  422. # [18:39] <MichaelC> topic: Status of task forces
  423. # [18:40] <MichaelC> ==HTML Accessibility Task Force==
  424. # [18:40] <MichaelC> Janina: First teleconference was today
  425. # [18:40] <MichaelC> started out mostly procedural
  426. # [18:40] <MichaelC> then started scoping issues to review first
  427. # [18:40] <MichaelC> taking ARIA integration / mapping issues first
  428. # [18:40] <MichaelC> (relates to Steve's action discussed earlier)
  429. # [18:40] <MichaelC> taking 24 and 31 Dec 2009 meetings off
  430. # [18:41] <MichaelC> mailing list is active on a few issues
  431. # [18:41] <MichaelC> video sub-group is forming
  432. # [18:41] <MichaelC> issues and possible solutions were covered in a pre-meeting before TPAC
  433. # [18:41] <Stevef> q+
  434. # [18:41] * Zakim sees Stevef on the speaker queue
  435. # [18:41] <MichaelC> ==Testing Task Force==
  436. # [18:42] <MichaelC> Chris: Mailing list active
  437. # [18:42] <MichaelC> starting a teleconference slot
  438. # [18:42] <MichaelC> q+ to ask about timezone and date of meeting?
  439. # [18:42] * Zakim sees Stevef, MichaelC on the speaker queue
  440. # [18:42] <MichaelC> planning to come back in early Jan with some preliminary activity
  441. # [18:42] <MichaelC> meeting is 8am next week
  442. # [18:43] <MichaelC> <scribe missed timezone and day of week>
  443. # [18:43] <MichaelC> q-
  444. # [18:43] * Zakim sees Stevef on the speaker queue
  445. # [18:43] <masinter> regrets next week -- during TAG meeting
  446. # [18:43] <MichaelC> topic: Scribe for next week
  447. # [18:43] <MichaelC> <the usual resounding silence>
  448. # [18:43] <MichaelC> topic: Other business
  449. # [18:44] <Stevef> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/80
  450. # [18:44] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-80 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  451. # [18:44] <MichaelC> Steve: how do we hold issues open that are being actively open?
  452. # [18:44] <MichaelC> Maciej: when a change proposal comes in, move issue and associated issues to open status
  453. # [18:44] <krisk> HTML Testing Task Force Conf Call -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2009Dec/0001.html
  454. # [18:44] <pimpbot> Title: RE: Testing Task Force Conf Call from Kris Krueger on 2009-12-03 (public-html-testsuite@w3.org from December 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  455. # [18:45] * Quits: richardschwerdtfe (RichS@99.39.114.91) (Quit: richardschwerdtfe)
  456. # [18:45] <MichaelC> s/Chris:/Kris:/
  457. # [18:45] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@82.44.68.200) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.6b1/20091029171059])
  458. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Janina
  459. # [18:45] <Zakim> -mjs
  460. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Mike
  461. # [18:45] <Laura> bye
  462. # [18:45] <Zakim> -li
  463. # [18:45] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  464. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Julian
  465. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Matt_May
  466. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
  467. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Masinter
  468. # [18:45] <Zakim> -cardona507
  469. # [18:45] * Quits: li (c698f03e@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
  470. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Sam
  471. # [18:45] * Quits: cardona507 (carloscard@67.180.160.250) (Quit: cardona507)
  472. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Stevef
  473. # [18:45] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.20.4) (Quit: dsinger)
  474. # [18:45] <Zakim> -kliehm
  475. # [18:45] * Quits: krisk (836b0067@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
  476. # [18:45] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  477. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Laura
  478. # [18:45] <Zakim> -Rich
  479. # [18:46] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  480. # [18:46] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.831.454.aaaa, dsinger, Rich, Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina, Sam, Mike, cardona507, Stevef, +1.617.324.aacc, kliehm, Michael_Cooper, Julian, [Microsoft], Matt_May, mjs,
  481. # [18:46] <Zakim> ... +1.715.718.aaff, +1.715.718.aagg, li, Laura, Masinter
  482. # [18:46] <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
  483. # [18:46] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-html-wg-minutes.html MichaelC
  484. # [18:50] * Quits: kliehm (kliehm@80.146.185.162) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451])
  485. # [18:50] * Quits: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217) (Quit: Laura)
  486. # [18:54] * Quits: frankolivier (836b0067@64.62.228.82) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  487. # [19:08] <MikeSmith> mjs: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Main_Page
  488. # [19:08] <pimpbot> Title: Main Page - HTML WG Wiki (at www.w3.org)
  489. # [19:08] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451])
  490. # [19:08] <mjs> MikeSmith: woot!
  491. # [19:08] <mjs> MikeSmith: do you know if MediaWiki supports templates like we had on the ESW wiki?
  492. # [19:09] <MikeSmith> yeah, it does
  493. # [19:09] <MikeSmith> though I not sure how to do it
  494. # [19:10] <MikeSmith> btw, I *think* the edit perms are automatically tied by LDAP to the actual W3C database
  495. # [19:10] <MikeSmith> such that only members of the HTML WG can edit pages there
  496. # [19:10] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.169) (Quit: tlr)
  497. # [19:12] <hober> "W3C Accounts" means the login we use for pages on w3.org behind http auth?
  498. # [19:12] <MikeSmith> hober: yep
  499. # [19:12] <MikeSmith> same username and password
  500. # [19:12] <MikeSmith> I believe
  501. # [19:12] <MikeSmith> hober: btw, great posting
  502. # [19:12] <MikeSmith> on your blog
  503. # [19:12] <MikeSmith> the most recent one
  504. # [19:13] <hober> hmmm. going to http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ doesn't work.
  505. # [19:13] <hober> oh, thanks.
  506. # [19:13] <hober> it was languishing in my drafts folder for a long time, mostly-done
  507. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> I don't know if you saw, but I added your blog to the Planet HTML5 aggregation a while back
  508. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> yeah, I don't know why http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki doesn't work
  509. # [19:15] <MikeSmith> but I think I can just add a redirect myself to make it redirect to the main page
  510. # [19:16] * Joins: plh (plh@128.30.52.28)
  511. # [19:26] <MikeSmith> myakura: http://www.w3.org/html/ig/jp/wiki/
  512. # [19:26] <pimpbot> Title: Main Page - HTML5 JP IG (at www.w3.org)
  513. # [19:26] <MikeSmith> for JPIG5
  514. # [19:26] <MikeSmith> that one is currently editable by anybody with a W3C account
  515. # [19:26] <Dashiva> JPIG seems like a name asking for puns
  516. # [19:26] <MikeSmith> yeah, that's why I like it
  517. # [19:27] <MikeSmith> we need a pig character as a mascot
  518. # [19:27] <Dashiva> And it should be a .jpg
  519. # [19:27] <MikeSmith> true that too
  520. # [19:28] <MikeSmith> we can make a pig the circled 5 symbol
  521. # [19:28] <MikeSmith> *pig with the
  522. # [19:28] <Dashiva> Like a branding mark
  523. # [19:28] <MikeSmith> yeah, branded pig
  524. # [19:28] <hober> MikeSmith: speaking of planet html5, I could provide you a feed of just my posts tagged html5 if you'd like
  525. # [19:28] <MikeSmith> smoking a peace pipe
  526. # [19:29] * Quits: weinig (weinig@71.198.185.234) (Quit: weinig)
  527. # [19:30] <MikeSmith> hober: that would be good, though maybe not worth the trouble if you've not set it up already. Because I have a filter that just causes any posts that don't have the string HTML5 or "HTML 5" in them to just be ignored
  528. # [19:30] <hober> ahh. ok then
  529. # [19:31] * Quits: LeifHS (s@84.208.110.159) (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b1pre)
  530. # [19:31] <myakura> MikeSmith: goody! thanks a lot!
  531. # [19:33] <MikeSmith> 日本語でどうぞ
  532. # [19:33] <myakura> :)
  533. # [19:33] <MikeSmith> I've not tried adding content in Japanese to any of our MediaWiki instances
  534. # [19:33] <MikeSmith> but I assume there should be no problems
  535. # [19:35] <MikeSmith> myakura: btw, thanks seriously a lot for doing the interpreter stuff today
  536. # [19:35] <MikeSmith> I hope it didn't put you on the spot
  537. # [19:36] <MikeSmith> but you rock mightily at thinking on your feett
  538. # [19:36] <MikeSmith> feet
  539. # [19:36] * Joins: drunknbass_work (aaron@71.107.253.243)
  540. # [19:36] <plh> does the jpig5 folks need an irc channel btw?
  541. # [19:36] <MikeSmith> plh: we did not decide on one yet
  542. # [19:37] <plh> btw, selectors api is an other draft for your list I think
  543. # [19:37] <MikeSmith> myakura: sorry about dropping "full duplex" without a heads-up.. but I don't think most people have any idea what it means in English anyway
  544. # [19:37] <plh> the webapps are trying to move it to CR
  545. # [19:37] <myakura> MikeSmith: my pleasure. to me it was quite interesting talk.
  546. # [19:37] <MikeSmith> plh: yeah, good point
  547. # [19:38] <MikeSmith> myakura: I think I should just say "fully bidirectional network communication"
  548. # [19:38] <MikeSmith> or something
  549. # [19:38] <MikeSmith> isntead
  550. # [19:38] * Quits: drunknbass_work (aaron@71.107.253.243) (Quit: drunknbass_work)
  551. # [19:38] <MikeSmith> plh: understood
  552. # [19:39] <MikeSmith> so it would be a good time to get the JPIG a heads-up about it too
  553. # [19:39] <MikeSmith> and see what feedback we might collect
  554. # [19:39] <MikeSmith> myakura: maybe a message about Selectors API to the list?
  555. # [19:40] <plh> or wait until the cr is published?
  556. # [19:40] * Joins: drunknbass_work (aaron@71.107.253.243)
  557. # [19:40] <MikeSmith> or we could do that, yeah
  558. # [19:40] <plh> current draft is one year old.
  559. # [19:41] <MikeSmith> holy mackerel
  560. # [19:41] <MikeSmith> didn't realize it'd be that long
  561. # [19:41] <myakura> "W3C Working Draft 14 November 2008" wow.
  562. # [19:42] <MikeSmith> blast from the past
  563. # [19:42] <plh> you need to remove the dust before starting reading it :)
  564. # [19:43] <plh> though the new version won't have significant changes in it
  565. # [19:44] <plh> only 2 editorial updates in fact
  566. # [19:45] <MikeSmith> so it is in a state of near-perfection
  567. # [19:45] <plh> indeed
  568. # [19:46] <MikeSmith> OK, http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ now redirects properly as well
  569. # [19:46] <pimpbot> Title: Main Page - HTML WG Wiki (at www.w3.org)
  570. # [19:46] <myakura> think I did the translation (a year ago), so jpig5 folks could read it in detail.
  571. # [19:46] <MikeSmith> that would be good
  572. # [19:48] * MikeSmith steps out a few minutes to replenish his beer supply
  573. # [19:52] <pimpbot> planet: Take Five with HTML5: Device Orientation & Geolocation on the Nokia N900 <http://missmobile.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/take-five-with-html5-device-orientation-geolocation-on-the-nokia-n900/> ** How to add mime-type for <video> element on Firefox ? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1841711/how-to-add-mime-type-for-video-element-on-firefox>
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The end :)