/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-12-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Dec 11 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:04] <pimpbot> planet: WebGL Draft Released Today <http://blog.mozilla.com/standards/2009/12/10/webgl-draft-released-today/> ** WebGL Draft Released Today <http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-draft-released-today/>
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  6. # [00:12] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8473] New: Sentence about the effect of changing src/async/defer on <script> is wrong <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0121.html>
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  21. # [02:35] <pimpbot> planet: WebGL Spec Initial Public Draft Released <http://blog.chromium.org/2009/12/webgl-spec-initial-public-draft.html>
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  28. # [03:35] <pimpbot> planet: Upgraded to jQuery 1.4 alpha on http://diveintopython3.org/ and http://diveintohtml5.org/ Let me know if anything broke! <http://twitter.com/diveintomark/statuses/6552122544>
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  42. # [05:36] <pimpbot> planet: What browsers support html 5 websocket? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1252829/what-browsers-support-html-5-websocket>
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  48. # [08:17] * Topic is 'Pursuing conformance solutions for the N-body gravitational system known as "the Web", and in general, collectively performing various acts of unparalleled hubris (This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/)'
  49. # [08:17] * Set by MikeSmith on Thu Jun 18 06:02:08
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  53. # [10:18] * Topic is 'Pursuing conformance solutions for the N-body gravitational system known as "the Web", and in general, collectively performing various acts of unparalleled hubris (This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/)'
  54. # [10:18] * Set by MikeSmith on Thu Jun 18 06:02:08
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  62. # [11:00] <Julian> MikeSmith, yt?
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  64. # [11:02] <Julian> It appears http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-76-objection-poll/results?view=compact is behind an ACL that's not open for group members (maybe it is for W3C members, though)
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  67. # [11:22] <MikeSmith> Julian: OK, I will check into
  68. # [11:22] <MikeSmith> it
  69. # [11:22] <MikeSmith> it claims that the "results are open to anybody"
  70. # [11:23] <MikeSmith> but based on what you said, that seems to not be the case
  71. # [11:23] <Julian> yep
  72. # [11:24] <Hixie> the compact view is never open to non-members
  73. # [11:24] <Hixie> (for reasons i don't grok)
  74. # [11:24] <Hixie> the public results are at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-76-objection-poll/results
  75. # [11:24] <pimpbot> Title: Results of Questionnaire ISSUE-76 - Microdata - Straw Poll for Objections - Web-Based Straw-poll and Balloting System (at www.w3.org)
  76. # [11:25] <Hixie> though so far, it's claiming four people replied but that there are no replies
  77. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> damn
  78. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> the compact view does indeed show the responses
  79. # [11:27] <Hixie> oh hey, i'm getting weird caching effects
  80. # [11:27] <Hixie> how odd
  81. # [11:28] <anne> MikeSmith, are you saying I should make a backup of the fun Roy Fielding posted there before you take it away?
  82. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> heh
  83. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> yeah, archive it while you still got time
  84. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> something funky there
  85. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> I'm seeing the weirdness too
  86. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> different content if you reload a few times
  87. # [11:30] <MikeSmith> not a mirroring problem... all mirrors are showing the same thing
  88. # [11:30] <MikeSmith> must be a DB problem
  89. # [11:30] * Philip thought online polls were generally a solved problem by now
  90. # [11:31] <Hixie> i'm glad roy thinks that quoting monty python consists of a serious and compelling argument
  91. # [11:31] <Hixie> it'll make the chair's job easier
  92. # [11:32] <anne> ah, that's where that is coming from
  93. # [11:33] <MikeSmith> there's worse things to quote
  94. # [11:34] * jgraham thought the credibility was lost more in the first sentence which suggests that he hasn't followed how the procedure he is participating in is supposed to work
  95. # [11:35] <MikeSmith> at least he didn't quote the Dalai Lama
  96. # [11:35] <MikeSmith> or the Obama Peace Prize "war is good" acceptance speech
  97. # [11:36] <anne> not his fault he got the price :)
  98. # [11:36] <Philip> MikeSmith: Hmm, they renamed it from the Nobel Peace Prize?
  99. # [11:37] <MikeSmith> yeah, from now on it will be named after him forever
  100. # [11:38] <MikeSmith> and only awarded to people who bomb large numbers of civilians in Afghanistan with predator drones
  101. # [11:38] <Philip> At least until someone invades Sweden and renames the prize after themselves, I guess
  102. # [11:39] <MikeSmith> you may not have noticed they have also subtly added some implied scare quotes to the name too
  103. # [11:39] <jgraham> I invaded Sweden but I forgot to bring an army
  104. # [11:40] <anne> gsnedders joined
  105. # [11:40] <MikeSmith> I think that prize has always been one long surrealist/absurdist joke
  106. # [11:40] <MikeSmith> (btw, I filed a sysreq about the poll issue)
  107. # [11:42] <MikeSmith> (and talking to systeam on IRC)
  108. # [11:42] <MikeSmith> speaking of war, let's please start a war against language subtags
  109. # [11:42] * jgraham notes that with this type of poll delaying responses to the last moment seems like an obvious benefit
  110. # [11:43] <jgraham> Since it doesn't give people from the opposite view an oppertunity to debunk any novel points you make
  111. # [11:44] <anne> I don't really like the model we have put in place
  112. # [11:44] <Philip> What would you suggest as a better model?
  113. # [11:45] <jgraham> I also note that Sam's suggestion that only people who would otherwise file FOs should respond is rather obviously broken
  114. # [11:45] <anne> I have no idea, I'm just not a fan of the difficulty imposed on keeping the spec as-is
  115. # [11:46] <anne> And the relative ease with which you can create that difficulty
  116. # [11:46] <anne> Since proposing a change is fairly simple
  117. # [11:47] <jgraham> Philip: Given the current model of multiple change proposals and non-poll-polls I would suggest that making the responses hidden and encouraging everyone with an opinion to respond would make the process more likely to favour good technical outcomes and less likely to favour people prepared to game the system
  118. # [11:48] <Philip> Keeping the spec as-is just requires you have better arguments than the people proposing the change, which should only be difficult if the proposed change is a good one
  119. # [11:49] <Hixie> personally i think the system is fine, i'm just worried that the decision will be based on arguments that are then not applied consistently to the rest of the spec
  120. # [11:49] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: typo (whatwg r4434) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Dec/0023.html> ** hixie: typo (whatwg r4433) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Dec/0022.html>
  121. # [11:49] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8156] I think the "the" is extraneous. Should be "It indicates that no referrer information is to be leaked..." <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0126.html> ** [Bug 8142] title: "abbr; dfn;" - remove ";" [ms] <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0125.html> ** [Bug 8156] I think the "the" is extraneous. Should be "It indicates that no referrer information is to be leaked
  122. # [11:51] <Hixie> e.g. if the reasoning is "each independent bit should be split out" and microdata is considered independent, then we should apply that to everything else too
  123. # [11:51] <Philip> jgraham: If the responses are hidden, doesn't that have exactly the same problems as people not posting their responses until the last minute?
  124. # [11:52] <jgraham> Philip: It doesn't have the disadvantage of posting early that is, no matter when you post you have to give your arguments based on the prior discussion and not use your response to try to specifically address points made in other responses
  125. # [11:52] <jgraham> +;
  126. # [11:53] <Philip> Ah
  127. # [11:53] * Philip supposes there's some analogy to eBay sniping
  128. # [11:54] <Philip> where everyone is encouraged to wait until the end in order to get a better deal themselves, but it leads to a worse outcome overall
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  130. # [12:19] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8475] command-apis <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0127.html>
  131. # [12:25] <annevk> Julian, Dan Mangan ftw
  132. # [12:32] * Joins: viper23 (Lukas_Schm@80.153.21.122)
  133. # [12:49] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8476] <canvas> contexts <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0129.html> ** [Bug 8476] New: <canvas> contexts <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0128.html>
  134. # [12:52] <karl> http://www.mpegrf.com/about/
  135. # [12:52] <pimpbot> Title: About (at www.mpegrf.com)
  136. # [12:52] <karl> royalty-free media standards -- a manifesto
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  138. # [13:09] <Julian> Anne, yes?
  139. # [13:09] <annevk> that was it, and thanks I suppose :)
  140. # [13:10] <Julian> ah
  141. # [13:10] <Julian> just saw the mail
  142. # [13:10] <Julian> did youget the CBC radio podcast MP3?
  143. # [13:10] <annevk> i downloaded the album
  144. # [13:11] <annevk> bbl
  145. # [13:11] <Julian> That's the older one (which I don't know yet)
  146. # [13:11] <Julian> the newer one is "nice, nice, very nice" and really excellent
  147. # [13:38] <pimpbot> planet: HTML Canvas element implemented in Flash? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1797535/html-canvas-element-implemented-in-flash>
  148. # [13:58] <gsnedders> anne: I was trying to invade Norway, but got kidnapped into Sweden.
  149. # [14:04] <annevk> that has fail all over it :p
  150. # [14:20] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8450] Case insensitivity of @rel vs case sensitivity of URIs <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0130.html>
  151. # [14:38] <pimpbot> planet: WebGL Spec Initial Public Draft Released <http://blog.chromium.org/2009/12/webgl-spec-initial-public-draft.html>
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  154. # [15:10] <LeifHS> Nobel Peace Price: I understand invading Sweden seems tempting, as they are not member of NATO. But to do something to the peace price you should invade Norway, which is a member ...
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  156. # [15:38] <pimpbot> planet: HTML Canvas element implemented in Flash? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1797535/html-canvas-element-implemented-in-flash>
  157. # [15:50] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8478] section-server <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0132.html> ** [Bug 8478] New: section-server <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0131.html>
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  162. # [17:21] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Full regen to get things back in sync. (whatwg r4436) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Dec/0024.html>
  163. # [17:21] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8479] New: http content-type override mandatory for <object> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0133.html>
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  168. # [17:52] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: markup typo (whatwg r4438) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Dec/0025.html>
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  171. # [18:40] <pimpbot> planet: WebGL Spec Initial Public Draft Released <http://blog.chromium.org/2009/12/webgl-spec-initial-public-draft.html>
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  179. # [19:18] * tlr is now known as tlr-off
  180. # [19:22] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Add <device> (experimental idea for the device APIs WG). Also, switch the WHATWG to an unversioned development model. (editoral: fix a markup error in the w3c microdata vocab specs) (whatwg r4439) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Dec/0026.html>
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  186. # [19:52] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8136] "the DOM text attribute" - s/DOM/IDL/ [pt] <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0134.html>
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  188. # [20:05] <david> Does the HTML5 spec disallow <form> nested inside <form> ? I didn't see where, if it does
  189. # [20:06] <Philip> david: "Content model: Flow content, but with no form element descendants."
  190. # [20:07] <david> thanks
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  192. # [20:08] <Philip> david: (...in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#the-form-element )
  193. # [20:08] <pimpbot> Title: 4.10 Forms HTML5 (at www.whatwg.org)
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  195. # [20:09] <Philip> and "An HTML element must have contents that match the requirements described in the element's content model." in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/content-models.html#content-models
  196. # [20:09] <pimpbot> Title: 3.2.5 Content models HTML5 (at www.whatwg.org)
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  198. # [20:22] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: terminology fixes ('DOM attribute' is so last year) (whatwg r4440) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Dec/0027.html>
  199. # [20:22] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 8136] "the DOM text attribute" - s/DOM/IDL/ [pt]" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Dec/0135.html>
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  226. # [22:46] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11)
  227. # [22:47] * Quits: weinig (weinig@17.246.18.209) (Quit: weinig)
  228. # [22:53] * Quits: aroben (aroben@17.246.16.239) (Ping timeout)
  229. # [22:59] * Joins: aroben (aroben@17.246.16.239)
  230. # [23:00] * Joins: aroben_ (aroben@17.203.12.32)
  231. # [23:02] * Quits: aroben (aroben@17.246.16.239) (Ping timeout)
  232. # [23:07] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@38.117.156.163) (Client exited)
  233. # [23:20] * Quits: drunknbass_work (aaron@71.107.253.243) (Quit: Leaving...)
  234. # [23:26] * Quits: LeifHS (s@84.208.110.159) (Quit: Instantbird 0.2b1pre)
  235. # [23:31] * Joins: mjs_ (mjs@17.246.17.190)
  236. # [23:32] * Quits: hober (ted@174.143.153.77) (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
  237. # [23:33] * Quits: mjs (mjs@17.203.15.143) (Ping timeout)
  238. # [23:33] * mjs_ is now known as mjs
  239. # [23:37] * Quits: aroben_ (aroben@17.203.12.32) (Ping timeout)
  240. # [23:41] * Joins: weinig (weinig@17.246.18.209)
  241. # [23:58] * Quits: tH (Rob@82.4.89.172) (Ping timeout)
  242. # Session Close: Sat Dec 12 00:00:00 2009

The end :)