/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2010-01-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jan 07 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:01] <anne> Julian, you still around?
  4. # [00:01] <anne> Julian, can HTTP really have headers called # or !?
  5. # [00:01] <anne> Julian, it seems so ... weird
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  7. # [00:06] <hugo> anne: that is what the RFC says
  8. # [00:06] <hugo> (re: HTTP headers)
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  11. # [00:07] <anne> hugo, indeed
  12. # [00:08] <anne> I wonder what the reaction will be if I register ! as a header name
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  14. # [00:10] <Philip> ! is hard to Google for, if you want to find out what it means
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  17. # [00:14] <anne> Philip, just do http !
  18. # [00:14] <anne> or some such
  19. # [00:17] * Philip wonders what header is so super special and amazing that it deserves a shorter name than everything else
  20. # [00:20] <hugo> xml:id=":" is correct, too, if I am not mistaken
  21. # [00:21] <anne> the value being 'id=":"'?
  22. # [00:22] <anne> if so, yup
  23. # [00:22] <hugo> the attribute xml:id with the value :
  24. # [00:22] <anne> ooh
  25. # [00:22] <anne> thought we were still talking about HTTP
  26. # [00:22] <hugo> my bad
  27. # [00:23] <anne> well, the thing with HTTP header is that they're somewhat restricted but not really
  28. # [00:24] <anne> headers*
  29. # [00:24] <anne> e.g. " is not allowed but ' is
  30. # [00:24] <anne> very arbitrary
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  34. # [00:28] <hugo> anne: because the quotation mark is a special symbol in HTTP (depending on the context), whereas apostrophe has absolutely no meaning
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  36. # [00:28] <hugo> I guess
  37. # [00:28] <hugo> in contrast to XML's apostrophe and quotation marks as attribute's value's delimiter, for instance
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  40. # [00:36] <anne> mkay
  41. # [00:36] <anne> if that goes for all characters I suppose that's the explanation
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  50. # [01:49] <hugo> anne: yes, the qualified name of the WHATWG HTML5 will be ::dom (equivalent to ::org::w3c::dom)
  51. # [01:50] <hugo> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2006/webapi/WebIDL/Overview.html?rev=1.204&content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#idl-modules
  52. # [01:55] <hugo> while we were at HTTP, there's a bug in cvsweb (at least in the version W3C is running) - removing "%20" from that URL results in wrong encoding
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  141. # [18:03] <MikeSmithX> trackbot, start meeting
  142. # [18:03] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  143. # [18:03] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  144. # [18:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  145. # [18:03] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
  146. # [18:03] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  147. # [18:03] <trackbot> Date: 07 January 2010
  148. # [18:03] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  149. # [18:03] * MichaelC zakim, this will be html
  150. # [18:03] * Zakim html matches both WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM and HTML_WG()12:00PM
  151. # [18:03] * tlr-bbl is now known as tlr
  152. # [18:03] * MichaelC zakim, this will be html_wg
  153. # [18:03] * Zakim ok, MichaelC, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  154. # [18:03] * MichaelC zakim, code?
  155. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  156. # [18:03] * Zakim saw 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152) given for the conference code, MichaelC
  157. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  158. # [18:04] <anne> i cannot dial in today unfortunately
  159. # [18:04] * Joins: dsinger (mobile@67.218.110.7)
  160. # [18:04] <anne> and also not for the next three weeks
  161. # [18:04] <Eliot_Graff> Zakim, Microsoft.a is me
  162. # [18:04] <anne> while I'm at it...
  163. # [18:04] <dsinger> zakim, mute me
  164. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Eliot_Graff; got it
  165. # [18:04] <Zakim> +cardona507
  166. # [18:04] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
  167. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
  168. # [18:04] <Zakim> -Julian
  169. # [18:04] <cardona507> Zakim, mute me.
  170. # [18:04] <Zakim> cardona507 should now be muted
  171. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Philippe
  172. # [18:05] <Zakim> +kliehm
  173. # [18:05] * kliehm zakim, mute me
  174. # [18:05] * Zakim kliehm should now be muted
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  176. # [18:06] <mjs> hi everyone
  177. # [18:06] <janina> zakim, call janina
  178. # [18:06] <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
  179. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Janina
  180. # [18:06] <Zakim> +mjs
  181. # [18:06] <cardona507> hi
  182. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Julian
  183. # [18:06] * Joins: krisk (836b0068@128.30.52.43)
  184. # [18:07] <rubys> scribe: rubys
  185. # [18:08] * kliehm zakim, who's on the phone?
  186. # [18:08] * Zakim sees on the phone: MarkMiller, +1.613.998.aaaa, Masinter, Sam, [Microsoft], dsinger (muted), Eliot_Graff, Cynthia_Shelly, cardona507 (muted), Michael_Cooper, Philippe, kliehm
  187. # [18:08] * Zakim ... (muted), Janina, mjs, Julian
  188. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.218.340.aabb
  189. # [18:08] <rubys> maciej: I have a bonus item that will be covered at the end of the agenda
  190. # [18:09] <MikeSmithX> Zakim, call Mike
  191. # [18:09] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmithX; the call is being made
  192. # [18:09] <rubys> topic: ACTION-29 on Philippe Le Hégaret
  193. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Mike
  194. # [18:09] * Joins: hober (ted@174.143.153.77)
  195. # [18:09] <rubys> plh: the psig met yesterday, and will be preparing a question for the AC
  196. # [18:09] <rubys> plh: some question about whether the MIT license was the most appropriate, some suggested the Apache license.
  197. # [18:09] <Laura> Zakim, aabb is me
  198. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Laura; got it
  199. # [18:09] <rubys> plh: new target, end of this month
  200. # [18:10] <rubys> action-29 due 28 Jan
  201. # [18:10] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-29.
  202. # [18:10] <trackbot> ACTION-29 Follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring due date now 28 Jan
  203. # [18:10] <rubys> topic: ACTION-127 on Maciej Stachowiak
  204. # [18:10] <cardona507> what other wgs?
  205. # [18:10] <rubys> maciej: I've still not sent this out, move it out by two weeks
  206. # [18:10] <rubys> action-127 due 21 jan
  207. # [18:10] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-127.
  208. # [18:10] <trackbot> ACTION-127 establish process for "official WG response" to other WG's RFC on LC drafts due date now 21 jan
  209. # [18:11] <masinter> action-127?
  210. # [18:11] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-127
  211. # [18:11] <trackbot> ACTION-127 -- Maciej Stachowiak to establish process for "official WG response" to other WG's RFC on LC drafts -- due 2010-01-21 -- OPEN
  212. # [18:11] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/127
  213. # [18:11] <rubys> mjs: [describes action item]
  214. # [18:11] <rubys> topic: ACTION-158 on Steve Faulkner
  215. # [18:12] * Joins: shelleyp (shelleyp@70.243.138.84)
  216. # [18:12] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  217. # [18:12] <rubys> Action-158?
  218. # [18:12] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-158
  219. # [18:12] <trackbot> ACTION-158 -- Steve Faulkner to bring question to group: Do we want changing of element handler and role semantics via attributes to be deprecated? -- due 2009-12-31 -- OPEN
  220. # [18:12] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/158
  221. # [18:12] * Quits: dsinger (mobile@67.218.110.7) (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
  222. # [18:12] <rubys> mjs: I'm not happy with setting a new date with Steve present, will check with him offline
  223. # [18:13] <rubys> cynthia: the task force has discussed this
  224. # [18:13] <rubys> mjs: will check with steve and the TF offline
  225. # [18:13] <rubys> topic: ACTION-161 on Maciej Stachowiak (on behalf of Leif Halvard Silli)
  226. # [18:14] <rubys> Roy to take over this action, will revisit next week
  227. # [18:14] <rubys> topic: ACTION-162 on Michael(tm) Smith
  228. # [18:14] <rubys> mike: I think there already is a component
  229. # [18:14] <masinter> action-162?
  230. # [18:14] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-162
  231. # [18:14] <trackbot> ACTION-162 -- Michael(tm) Smith to bug tracker for web site? -- due 2010-01-07 -- OPEN
  232. # [18:14] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/162
  233. # [18:15] <rubys> mjs: that's fine, if it is there, we can close the action
  234. # [18:15] <plh> "HTML WG website"
  235. # [18:15] <rubys> mjs: component is html-wg-website
  236. # [18:16] <rubys> close action-162
  237. # [18:16] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-162.
  238. # [18:16] <trackbot> ACTION-162 Bug tracker for web site? closed
  239. # [18:16] <rubys> topic: ACTION-163 on Michael(tm) Smith
  240. # [18:16] <masinter> closing action should have pointer to resolution in action item?
  241. # [18:17] <masinter> Could someone add a note to Action-162 pointing to the reason why it was closed.... the location of the tracker for the web site isn't in the minutes.
  242. # [18:17] <rubys> mike: new wiki is setup, but the conversion has not been done
  243. # [18:17] <rubys> mike: We shouldn't put new content into it until the migration is complete
  244. # [18:18] <rubys> action-163 due 14 jan
  245. # [18:18] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-163.
  246. # [18:18] <trackbot> ACTION-163 MediaWiki successor for current MoinMoin based wiki due date now 14 jan
  247. # [18:18] <masinter> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/162?changelog doesn't even show who closed the issue or why it was closed
  248. # [18:18] <rubys> topic: ACTION-166 on Paul Cotton
  249. # [18:18] <paulc> see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jan/0214.html
  250. # [18:19] <masinter> yes, agree, move on
  251. # [18:19] <rubys> paulc: I think my emails and links are completely clear
  252. # [18:19] <rubys> close action-166
  253. # [18:19] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-166.
  254. # [18:19] <trackbot> ACTION-166 Recheck status of issues 10 and 73 closed
  255. # [18:19] <rubys> topic: ISSUE-4 (html-versioning)
  256. # [18:19] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.20.4)
  257. # [18:20] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  258. # [18:20] <rubys> mjs: larry has incorporated feedback from the chairs. Any questions or comments?
  259. # [18:20] <Zakim> -dsinger
  260. # [18:20] <rubys> larry: the proposal changed substantially based on comments from the mailing list
  261. # [18:20] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
  262. # [18:20] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  263. # [18:20] <rubys> topic: ISSUE-30 (longdesc)
  264. # [18:20] <Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ChangeProposals/longdesc
  265. # [18:20] <rubys> mjs: updated by charles based on feedback, and posted on the wiki
  266. # [18:21] <masinter> there are more comments on the ISSUE-4 change proposal that continue to need discussion
  267. # [18:21] <rubys> mjs: any questions or comments?
  268. # [18:22] <rubys> larry: this also affects versioning based on elements and attributes that were on HTML4 vs what is in HTML5
  269. # [18:22] <rubys> mjs: we need to look at concrete issues
  270. # [18:22] <rubys> topic: ISSUE-88 (content-language-multiple) due Jan 3
  271. # [18:23] <masinter> issue-88?
  272. # [18:23] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-88
  273. # [18:23] <trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should meta/@content allow a list of languages instead of just a single language? -- OPEN
  274. # [18:23] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/88
  275. # [18:23] <rubys> mjs: roy has volunteered, new due date 21 jan
  276. # [18:23] <rubys> topic: ISSUE-66 (image-analysis) due Jan 16 (awaiting proposal from Matt May)
  277. # [18:24] <rubys> ISSUE-74 (canvas-accessibility) due Jan 16 (ACTION-133 on Richard Schwerdtfeger)
  278. # [18:24] <rubys> mjs: new date end of february
  279. # [18:24] <rubys> topic: ISSUE-79 (meta-keywords) due Jan 16 (no volunteers)
  280. # [18:25] <rubys> Larry: I saw something in the IETF dealing with dublin core use of meta keywords
  281. # [18:25] <rubys> Julian: a specification that used to be in the IETF has moved to the dublin core group
  282. # [18:25] <rubys> larry: it might be useful to link that to the issue
  283. # [18:25] <rubys> mjs: send an email to the list
  284. # [18:25] <Julian> http://dublincore.org/documents/dc-html/
  285. # [18:26] <Julian> q+
  286. # [18:26] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  287. # [18:26] <rubys> topic: ISSUE-81 (representation-vs-resource) due Jan 16 (no volunteers)
  288. # [18:26] <rubys> topic: ISSUE-27 (rel-ownership) due Jan 21 (ACTION-160 on Paul C)
  289. # [18:26] <rubys> mjs: all that is needed is a writeup, and I feel that there is good progress
  290. # [18:26] <paulc> Issue 27: See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jan/0215.html
  291. # [18:26] <rubys> mjs: any questions or comments?
  292. # [18:26] <Julian> q+ to say that Roy volunteered to work on a proposal for ISSUE-81 once other issues are resolved
  293. # [18:26] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  294. # [18:27] <rubys> larry: I wonder if we should have an action to talk to the dublin core group
  295. # [18:27] <rubys> mjs: volunteer?
  296. # [18:27] <rubys> larry: I'll send an email
  297. # [18:27] <rubys> action on larry to send an email to the dublin core group
  298. # [18:27] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  299. # [18:27] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - on
  300. # [18:28] <rubys> action larry to send an email to the dublin core group
  301. # [18:28] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  302. # [18:28] <trackbot> Created ACTION-169 - Send an email to the dublin core group [on Larry Masinter - due 2010-01-14].
  303. # [18:28] * plh zakim, who is making noise?
  304. # [18:28] <rubys> julian: ...open issues on profile...
  305. # [18:28] * Zakim plh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Eliot_Graff (59%), mjs (84%), Julian (9%)
  306. # [18:28] <rubys> [unintelligable]
  307. # [18:29] * dsinger mjs, you are breaking up badly
  308. # [18:29] * dsinger and have disappeared
  309. # [18:29] <rubys> topic: Review of Chair Calls for Consensus
  310. # [18:29] <cardona507> yeah
  311. # [18:29] * dsinger we heard the question, but not 5 seconds vefore that
  312. # [18:29] * masinter thinks it's the background noise
  313. # [18:29] * MichaelC mute
  314. # [18:29] * MichaelC zakim, mute me
  315. # [18:29] * Zakim Michael_Cooper should now be muted
  316. # [18:29] * MichaelC in case it was me
  317. # [18:30] <rubys> topic: ISSUE-59 (normative-language-reference) due Jan 7 (extended from Dec 17)
  318. # [18:30] <rubys> topic: ISSUE-67 (html-parsing-dom) due Jan 7 (extended from Dec 17)
  319. # [18:30] <masinter> wasn't clear about the commitment to publish these as working group product
  320. # [18:31] <rubys> the tag is ok with closing both of these tomorrow, with the request that Mike's document be published in a non-normative manner and with the addition of a schema
  321. # [18:31] <paulc> q+
  322. # [18:31] * Zakim sees Julian, paulc on the speaker queue
  323. # [18:32] <rubys> mjs: for a document to go to last call, we need a working group decision, and we can't do that without the actual document
  324. # [18:32] <Eliot_Graff> zakim, mute me
  325. # [18:32] <Zakim> Eliot_Graff should now be muted
  326. # [18:32] <rubys> larry: the wg is committed to html5, why can't it commit to Mike's document?
  327. # [18:32] <rubys> mjs: there is a charter commitment for html5
  328. # [18:33] <rubys> larry: I'm trying to figure out where the commitment lies
  329. # [18:34] <rubys> mjs: For us to make a decision, we need a resolution; I would rather do that with a concrete document rather than an hypothetical
  330. # [18:34] <rubys> larry: then the issue should remain open
  331. # [18:34] <rubys> mjs: the agreement is for a non-normative document
  332. # [18:34] <rubys> mjs: we can take this offline. Feel free to object on the mailing
  333. # [18:35] <rubys> larry: do you understand the point?
  334. # [18:35] <rubys> mjs: I'm not sure I do, but lets take it offline
  335. # [18:35] <paulc> q-
  336. # [18:35] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  337. # [18:35] <paulc> ack Jul
  338. # [18:35] <Zakim> Julian, you wanted to say that Roy volunteered to work on a proposal for ISSUE-81 once other issues are resolved
  339. # [18:35] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  340. # [18:35] <rubys> topic: New issues this week
  341. # [18:35] <Julian> q-
  342. # [18:35] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  343. # [18:35] <rubys> mjs: none, but as the buglist is cleared, I expect some to surface; everybody please monitor the bugs you care about
  344. # [18:36] <rubys> topic: HTML Accessibility Task Force
  345. # [18:36] <rubys> mike: we had a meeting just before this one, I'll post a link to the minutes
  346. # [18:37] <krisk> 6 Month Testing Task Force Conf call dates posted -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2010Jan/0000.html
  347. # [18:37] <rubys> mike: video did not make much progress over the holidays, but canvas should have something to report in a few weeks
  348. # [18:37] <krisk> I expect that this month we will start to have tests submitted into the w3c CVS server.
  349. # [18:37] <rubys> topic: Testing Task Force
  350. # [18:38] <rubys> mjs: bonus item: WG decision on Microdata will be published today
  351. # [18:38] <masinter> q+
  352. # [18:38] * Zakim sees masinter on the speaker queue
  353. # [18:38] <Laura> Accessibility Task Force Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-html-a11y-minutes.html
  354. # [18:38] <MikeSmithX> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0108.html <- minutes of a11y TF
  355. # [18:38] <MikeSmithX> RRSAgent, make minutes
  356. # [18:38] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmithX
  357. # [18:38] * Julian would like to hear the resolution now
  358. # [18:38] * MikeSmithX only now notices that Laura beat me to it
  359. # [18:38] <rubys> larry: on the url bug, I expect that will be issue-56 will have to go forward
  360. # [18:39] <rubys> s/will be issue-56/issue-56/
  361. # [18:39] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  362. # [18:39] <rubys> mjs: adjourned
  363. # [18:39] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  364. # [18:39] <cardona507> thanks everyone
  365. # [18:39] <Zakim> -mjs
  366. # [18:39] <Zakim> -Philippe
  367. # [18:39] <Laura> bye
  368. # [18:39] <Zakim> -Masinter
  369. # [18:39] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  370. # [18:39] <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
  371. # [18:39] <Zakim> -Janina
  372. # [18:39] <Zakim> -MarkMiller
  373. # [18:39] <Zakim> -Julian
  374. # [18:39] <Zakim> -kliehm
  375. # [18:39] <Zakim> -Eliot_Graff
  376. # [18:39] * Quits: shelleyp (shelleyp@70.243.138.84) (Quit: shelleyp)
  377. # [18:39] <Zakim> -cardona507
  378. # [18:39] <rubys> trackbot, publish minutes
  379. # [18:39] <trackbot> Sorry, rubys, I don't understand 'trackbot, publish minutes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
  380. # [18:39] <krisk> bye
  381. # [18:39] <Zakim> - +1.613.998.aaaa
  382. # [18:39] * Quits: Eliot_Graff (EGraff@131.107.0.103) (Quit: Download IceChat at www.icechat.net)
  383. # [18:39] <Zakim> -Mike
  384. # [18:39] * Parts: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30)
  385. # [18:39] <Zakim> -Laura
  386. # [18:39] <rubys> rrsagend, publish minutes
  387. # [18:39] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  388. # [18:40] <masinter> the problems in issue-56 are editorial, not technical disagreement, so some help would be useful
  389. # [18:40] <rubys> rrsagent, publish minutes
  390. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-html-wg-minutes.html rubys
  391. # [18:40] <Zakim> -Sam
  392. # [18:40] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  393. # [18:40] <Zakim> Attendees were MarkMiller, +1.613.998.aaaa, cardona507, Masinter, Sam, Julian, [Microsoft], dsinger, Cynthia_Shelly, Eliot_Graff, Michael_Cooper, Philippe, kliehm, Janina, mjs,
  394. # [18:40] <Zakim> ... +1.218.340.aabb, Mike, Laura
  395. # [18:40] * Quits: paulc (836b0056@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06))
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  435. # Session Close: Fri Jan 08 00:00:00 2010

The end :)