/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2010-03-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Mar 31 00:00:00 2010
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  30. # [06:04] <Sirisian> Does it say that the canvas tag uses an "immediate-mode" rendering style anywhere in the standard?
  31. # [06:05] <Sirisian> I was looking through and I haven't seen any mention of it
  32. # [06:09] <Dashiva> Just that it's a bitmap canvas, as far as I can see
  33. # [06:14] <Sirisian> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9253
  34. # [06:14] <Sirisian> I was looking at that bug and it got me to thinking that maybe he's referring to something a browser currently is doing
  35. # [06:15] <Sirisian> Or maybe he's complaining because it isn't defined that every operation is in immediate mode?
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  42. # [10:51] <Julian> mjs: now I am
  43. # [10:52] <mjs> Julian: the question I planned to ask you is now obsolete (it was about the MIME registration change controller bug, and you already acted on my comment in the bug)
  44. # [10:53] <Julian> ok
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  50. # [12:53] * Topic is 'HTML WG: Google Wave is just IRC without the pantsuits and feathered hair'
  51. # [12:53] * Set by shepazu on Thu Feb 18 18:30:47
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  97. # [21:50] <rubys> Hixie: ping?
  98. # [21:58] <Hixie> hey
  99. # [21:59] <rubys> I'm going to mark http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9326 as NEEDSINFO. I can't see any reason why you would have a problem with that :-), but mjs suggested I mention it to you before I do it.
  100. # [22:00] <Hixie> i was wondering about that bug
  101. # [22:00] <Hixie> she assigned it to herself
  102. # [22:00] <Hixie> so i figured she was just using it as a reminder to herself or something
  103. # [22:00] <rubys> it was done based on the telecon: http://www.w3.org/2010/03/25-html-wg-minutes.html#item12
  104. # [22:00] <Hixie> but yeah, marking it NEEDSINFO is fine by me
  105. # [22:00] <Hixie> ah ok
  106. # [22:00] <rubys> the overall background is that we are trying to take what was issue 35 and move it towards tangible bugs
  107. # [22:01] <rubys> previously, it got moved to action 138, which is still open (*sigh*)
  108. # [22:01] <Hixie> many bugs instead of the general issue is a positive move, excellent news
  109. # [22:02] <rubys> well, all we have done so far is general issue to general bug, but we're trying.
  110. # [22:02] <Hixie> heh
  111. # [22:02] <hober> this is weird: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Mar/0287.html
  112. # [22:03] <hober> I would have expected control of http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/ to transfer to the HTML WG when the XHTML2 WG ended
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  120. # [22:38] <Sirisian> Hixie, since you're there. I was wondering if you know the background behind "The handling of pixel rounding when the specified coordinates do not exactly map to the device coordinate space is not defined by this specification" at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#dom-context-2d-putimagedata I submitted a bug report regarding it since it causes odd behavior between browsers like FF that use bilinear filtering.
  121. # [22:39] <Hixie> yeah it's so that if you're on a highres display, the browser can use whatever algorithm is most optimal for hte platform when deciding how to round CSS pixels to device pixel boundaries
  122. # [22:39] <Sirisian> I can whip up an example that produces artifacts in browsers because of how they interpret dx and dy in drawImage and other functions
  123. # [22:39] <Hixie> the paragraph above only refers to the putImageData/getImageData stuff
  124. # [22:39] <Hixie> doesn'ta ffect drawImage
  125. # [22:40] <Sirisian> yeah this is probably a complaint that should be made with browsers maybe :\
  126. # [22:40] <Sirisian> yeah but drawImage follows the same undefined rules
  127. # [22:44] <Hixie> it does?
  128. # [22:44] <Hixie> it shouldn't
  129. # [22:44] <Hixie> where does it say that it does?
  130. # [22:44] * Sirisian checks
  131. # [22:48] <Sirisian> http://www.assaultwars.com/javascriptgame/tests/tiling.html <-- example though. Rendering offset in FF using drawImage uses bilinear filtering unlike chrome and other browsers which use nearest neighbor :\
  132. # [22:49] <Sirisian> Not sure if that's intended to allow browsers to be flexible in what they do or not
  133. # [22:50] <Sirisian> Actually chrome is the only modern browser that uses nearest neighbor. It's as if it Math.round's the dx and dy
  134. # [22:51] <Hixie> that's basically antialiasing
  135. # [22:52] <Hixie> we don't currently specify how that should work
  136. # [22:52] <Hixie> similar issue as the putImageData() stuff, but not quite the same
  137. # [22:52] <Hixie> this issue is more the opposite -- how to handle the case when the CSS pixel coordinates are more fine-grained than the device pixels
  138. # [22:59] <Sirisian> Would be nice if there was a drawing flag for telling browsers to use nearest neighbor or bilinear. Especially since there's a performance difference between the two. I think that would give users more control about what they want. Or just say that bilinear filtering must be used when given non-integer coordinates so that Math.round can be used for nearest neighbor filtering.
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  140. # [23:02] <Sirisian> Letting browser control something that could change how something is rendered is a little odd
  141. # [23:03] <Hixie> i don't think what you're seeing is nearest neighbor vs bilinear -- you're rendering the tile aligned in the middle of a pixel, so the UA has to somehow paint half a pixel of the tile and half a pixel of what was there before on one device pixel
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  143. # [23:04] <Sirisian> no it's bilinear filtering. It does it to the whole image.
  144. # [23:04] <Sirisian> and what was there before
  145. # [23:12] <Sirisian> http://www.assaultwars.com/javascriptgame/tests/tiling.html :\
  146. # [23:14] <Sirisian> Not saying that bilinear interpolation shouldn't be used, but if it was intended that all browsers should use it then it should say so.
  147. # [23:15] <Hixie> i don't see why you think it's bilinear interpolation
  148. # [23:15] <Hixie> or maybe i am using the term differently than you are
  149. # [23:16] <Sirisian> You mean why I think the algorithm is bilinear filtering?
  150. # [23:17] <Sirisian> It just looks like it. I've implemented it in the past for fun.
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  152. # [23:20] <Sirisian> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilinear_filtering
  153. # [23:21] <Sirisian> Not really the point though. It's about how browsers decided when to do it.
  154. # [23:21] <Sirisian> decide*
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The end :)