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# Session Start: Thu Aug 12 00:00:00 2010
# Session Ident: #html-wg
# [00:03] * Joins: plh (plh@128.30.52.28)
# [00:28] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: <select required> (whatwg r5283) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0102.html >
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# [00:56] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9628] "willful violation" for detecting the charset <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0167.html >
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# [06:22] * Topic is 'Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0006.html '
# [06:22] * Set by rubys on Thu Jul 22 17:25:01
# [07:30] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Set 'unicode-bidi: embed' on non-inline elements to preserve bidi behaviour when setting them to inline. (whatwg r5284) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0103.html >
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# [11:01] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Remove document.async and restrict document.load to createDocument() documents. (whatwg r5285) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0104.html >
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# [12:59] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10350] New: Do not reward Microsoft's willful violation of standards by "codifying" them in this document <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0168.html >
# [13:30] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10350] Do not reward Microsoft's willful violation of standards by "codifying" them in this document <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0169.html >
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# [15:29] <Lachy> Julian, what's the process for taking the about: URI draft to the next stage?
# [15:30] <Lachy> I believe the current draft is ready for publication. All the feedback we ever got from uri-review has been addressed.
# [15:58] <Julian> ah
# [15:58] <Julian> wait
# [15:58] * Joins: tinkster1 (tai@81.2.120.180)
# [15:59] <Julian> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4395#section-5.2
# [15:59] <pimpbot> Title: RFC 4395 - Guidelines and Registration Procedures for New URI Schemes (at tools.ietf.org)
# [16:00] <Julian> so
# [16:00] <Julian> we discussed on uri-review, but you probably should send a format review request pointing to the latest internet draft
# [16:01] <Julian> for the publication as RFC we need to decide which publication path to use
# [16:01] <Julian> I'm not sure it needs to be on standards track, so "Informational" should suffice
# [16:03] <Julian> to get that published you send a publication request either to the RFC Editor (if you want to use the "individual" publication stream), or to the IESG.
# [16:04] <Julian> the latter variant will probably work better, as I'm pretty sure the RFC Editor will ask the IESG for advice anyway.
# [16:04] <Julian> does this help?
# [16:06] <Julian> some of the information in here: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc-editor/lifecycle78.pdf might help
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# [16:30] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10352] The range of unsigned long should be [0, 2147483647], since no browser allows setting to values outside that range <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0173.html > ** [Bug 10352] The range of unsigned long should be defined to be [0, 2147483647], since no browser allows setting to values outside that range. See <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=586118 >. In the following test case, Mozilla, C
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# [16:54] <pimpbot> planet: Your Questions Answered #12 <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/html5doctor/~3/WO6WKGHsDAI/ >
# [16:57] <gsnedders> hmm, limiting it to the max of a signed long
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# [17:00] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 10352] The range of unsigned long should be [0, 2147483647], since no browser allows setting to values outside that range" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0174.html >
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# [17:33] * rubys changes topic to 'Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0014.html '
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# [17:55] <pimpbot> planet: A Map of the Mozilla Community <http://davidwboswell.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/a-map-of-the-mozilla-community/ >
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# [18:01] <rubys> trackbot, start meeting
# [18:01] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
# [18:01] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
# [18:01] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
# [18:01] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
# [18:01] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be html_wg
# [18:01] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
# [18:01] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
# [18:01] <trackbot> Date: 12 August 2010
# [18:01] <Zakim> +[Apple]
# [18:01] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
# [18:01] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
# [18:02] * plh zakim, call plh-work
# [18:02] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
# [18:02] <Zakim> +Plh
# [18:02] <Zakim> +??P7
# [18:02] * Joins: J_Voracek (irchon@166.205.9.253)
# [18:02] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
# [18:02] <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft] has adrianba
# [18:02] <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
# [18:02] <Julian> Zakim, +??P7 is me
# [18:02] <Zakim> sorry, Julian, I do not recognize a party named '+??P7'
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# [18:02] <Julian> Zakim, P7 is me
# [18:02] <Zakim> sorry, Julian, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
# [18:02] <Zakim> +Sam
# [18:02] <Julian> Zakim, ?P7 is me
# [18:02] <Zakim> sorry, Julian, I do not recognize a party named '?P7'
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# [18:02] <Julian> Zakim, ??P7 is me
# [18:02] <Zakim> +Julian; got it
# [18:02] * Julian gah!
# [18:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
# [18:03] <eliot> zakim, [microsoft.a] is me
# [18:03] <Zakim> +eliot; got it
# [18:03] <Julian> Zakim, who's on the phone?
# [18:03] <Zakim> On the phone I see Radhika_Roy, [Apple], Plh, Julian, [Microsoft], Sam, eliot
# [18:03] <Zakim> [Apple] has dsinger
# [18:03] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has adrianba
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# [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
# [18:04] <plh> scribeNick: plh
# [18:04] <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft.a] has paulc
# [18:04] <Zakim> +paulc; got it
# [18:04] <plh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0014.html
# [18:04] <pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-08-12: action 29; issues 116, 30, 109, 27; bugs 9894, 10066 from Sam Ruby on 2010-08-11 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
# [18:04] <paulc> zakim, who is causing noise?
# [18:04] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, paulc.
# [18:05] <plh> Previous minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0013.html
# [18:05] <pimpbot> Title: RE: {minutes} HTML WG telecon 2010-08-04 [task force week] from Adrian Bateman on 2010-08-05 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
# [18:05] <rubys> zakim, who is making noise?
# [18:05] * Joins: JF (chatzilla@24.23.183.19)
# [18:05] <Zakim> rubys, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: eliot (38%)
# [18:05] <Zakim> +Eric
# [18:05] * Joins: janina (janina@66.92.170.178)
# [18:05] <eliot> I just muted. Sorry
# [18:06] <janina> zakim, call janina
# [18:06] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
# [18:06] <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
# [18:06] <plh> Topic: action items
# [18:06] <Zakim> +Janina
# [18:06] <plh> action-29?
# [18:06] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-29
# [18:06] <trackbot> ACTION-29 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2010-08-15 -- OPEN
# [18:06] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29
# [18:06] <rubys> action-29?
# [18:06] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-29
# [18:06] <trackbot> ACTION-29 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2010-08-15 -- OPEN
# [18:06] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-29 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
# [18:06] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29
# [18:06] <Zakim> +John_Foliot
# [18:07] * Quits: kliehm (kliehm@80.146.185.162) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716])
# [18:07] <plh> plh: the FSF responded that the proposal wasn't compatible with GPL. The PSIG needs to look at the feedback and decides next step
# [18:07] <plh> ... timeline is unknown at the moment
# [18:07] <paulc> When does PSIG meet next?
# [18:08] <plh> plh: I believe it's Wednesday next week
# [18:09] <rubys> action-29 due sept 9
# [18:09] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-29.
# [18:09] <trackbot> ACTION-29 Follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring due date now sept 9
# [18:09] <plh> Topic: New issues this week
# [18:10] <plh> Sam: ISSUE 116
# [18:10] <plh> ... we said it was premature original. we now need to ask for change proposals
# [18:10] <plh> s/original/originally/
# [18:10] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Aug/att-0112/issue-30-decision.html
# [18:10] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-30 (longdesc) (at lists.w3.org)
# [18:10] <plh> Topic: Workg Group decision
# [18:10] <plh> Sam: ISSUE-30 decision came out this week.
# [18:11] <plh> Janina: we discussed about this in WAI and WAI CG. Concern is growing that the Group will receive a formal complaint.
# [18:11] <JF> that someone will include John Foliot
# [18:12] <plh> ... it looks to us that we don't have a mechanism for doing a long alternative write-ups of a complex image
# [18:12] <plh> ... there has been significant corporate deployment, such as within Oracle. There appears to be a hole now, in case people were using longdesc
# [18:13] <plh> ... the TF recommended to keep longdesc in the past.
# [18:13] <plh> Sam: Oracle deployment. Is that new information?
# [18:13] <plh> Janina: might be new indeed. we didn't elaborate on this in the past.
# [18:14] <plh> ... there seems to be significant deployment in intranet sites.
# [18:14] <oedipus> regrets+ Gregory_Rosmaita
# [18:14] * Julian thinks it would be great if Oracle participated more :-)
# [18:14] <plh> Sam: if there is new information, you might request to reopen the issue
# [18:14] <plh> Paul: this topic could be added to the chairs coordination meeting on Monday
# [18:14] <plh> Sam: agreed
# [18:16] <plh> Paul: if there is new information or formal objection, it puts the ball back in our court temporarily
# [18:17] <plh> Sam: (list of pending issues for decisions)
# [18:17] <plh> Topic: Items closing this week
# [18:17] <plh> ISSUE-41?
# [18:17] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-41
# [18:17] <trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- Decentralized extensibility -- open
# [18:17] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/41
# [18:17] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-41 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
# [18:17] <plh> Sam: still looking for advocates
# [18:17] <plh> ... this closes tomorrow
# [18:18] <plh> Paul: I took the liberty to send this to the TAG and sent them a reminder today as well
# [18:18] <paulc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Aug/0006.html
# [18:18] <pimpbot> Title: RE: FW: ISSUE-41: extensibility change proposal advocates from Paul Cotton on 2010-08-12 (www-tag@w3.org from August 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
# [18:18] <plh> ISSUE-100?
# [18:18] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-100
# [18:18] <trackbot> ISSUE-100 -- Remove the srcdoc attribute from the HTML5 specification -- open
# [18:18] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/100
# [18:18] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-100 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
# [18:18] <plh> Sam: the poll is now closed
# [18:18] <plh> Topic: Upcoming Dates
# [18:19] <plh> ISSUE-110?
# [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-110
# [18:19] <trackbot> ISSUE-110 -- Change Control for text/html-sandboxed media type -- open
# [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/110
# [18:19] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-110 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
# [18:19] <plh> Sam: open until September 4
# [18:19] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-100-objection-poll/
# [18:20] <plh> Topic: Current WG surveys
# [18:20] <plh> Sam: got a new one on ISSUE-109
# [18:20] <plh> ... open until August 19
# [18:21] <plh> Topic: Misc items
# [18:21] <rubys> http://w3.org/brief/MTk0
# [18:21] <plh> Sam: decision policy update
# [18:21] <pimpbot> Title: Bug List (at w3.org)
# [18:21] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9894#c4
# [18:21] <pimpbot> 9894: ian@hixie.ch, P2, RESOLVED WONTFIX, The chairs should be required to ensure that decisions result in consistent specifications
# [18:21] <plh> Sam: if people have objections duer to consistency, I encourage them to voice them at the appropriate times
# [18:22] <plh> ... ie in change proposals, or polls
# [18:22] <plh> Topic: HTML WG Status
# [18:22] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/0809-html-plh/Overview.html
# [18:22] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 Update (at www.w3.org)
# [18:23] <plh> Sam: one point of concerns is the current of rate of closures on bugs
# [18:23] <plh> Paul: that's true as my inbox as well. it overlaps with summer and editor has been partially on leave
# [18:24] <plh> Topic: Other business
# [18:24] <plh> 10066?
# [18:25] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10066
# [18:25] <pimpbot> 10066: faulkner.steve@gmail.com, P1, NEW, replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided
# [18:25] <plh> Sam: progress on trying to get new information
# [18:26] <plh> Cynthia: Maciej, Rich, and I met regarding the new information needed. we're working at including the new information. expected a new draft in couple of days, will be discussed next week in HTML a11y, then forward bck to the group after that
# [18:26] <plh> ... so should happen pretty soon
# [18:26] <Julian> q+
# [18:26] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
# [18:26] <rubys> ack next
# [18:26] * Zakim sees Julian at the head of the speaker queue
# [18:26] <plh> ISSUE-27?
# [18:26] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-27
# [18:26] <trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- open
# [18:26] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27
# [18:26] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
# [18:26] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-27 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
# [18:27] <plh> Julian: we have 3 registration requests. two registries: one for link relation, one on metadata on link relation.
# [18:27] <rubys> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/link-relations/current/msg00023.html
# [18:27] <pimpbot> Title: Re: [link-relations] NEW APP DATA (at www.ietf.org)
# [18:27] <plh> ... Ian tried to update one link relation, a relation that came from HTML4.
# [18:27] <rubys> zakim, who is making noise?
# [18:28] * plh can't hear Julian
# [18:28] <Zakim> rubys, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Cynthia_Shelly (81%), Julian (60%)
# [18:28] <dsinger> zakim, who is making noise?
# [18:28] <Zakim> dsinger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Cynthia_Shelly (34%), Julian (24%)
# [18:29] <plh> Julian: the attempt to re-register the relation lead to the discussion about which spec to link to
# [18:29] <plh> ... Ian tried to register pingback
# [18:29] <plh> ... a spec on his personal homepage doesn't satisfy the IETF requirement for stable specification
# [18:30] <plh> ... and attempt to register new metadata in the registry, about conformance requirements for HTML5 (on which elements it is allowed)
# [18:30] <plh> ... we, as designed experts, are not convinced that adding this info in the IANA registry makes sense. there is also disagreement about the requirement itself
# [18:30] <plh> ... need to raise the concern in the HTML Working Group
# [18:31] * plh hopes he captured Julian accurately enough
# [18:31] * Julian will check
# [18:31] * Julian looks good
# [18:31] <plh> Topic: scribe for next meeting?
# [18:32] <plh> Paul: I'll volunteer to chair next week
# [18:32] <plh> Sam: I'll scribe next week
# [18:32] * adrianba will scribe
# [18:32] <Julian> Rephrasing: the designated experts do not believe that there is HTML WG consensus on these flags and would like the HTML WG to discuss this before proceeding
# [18:32] <plh> Sam: I'll defer to Adrian
# [18:32] * plh thanks Julian
# [18:32] <Julian> I will raise this as discussion topic on the mailing list.
# [18:32] <plh> [adjourned]
# [18:33] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
# [18:33] <Zakim> -Julian
# [18:33] <Zakim> -[Apple]
# [18:33] <Zakim> -Plh
# [18:33] <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
# [18:33] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.20.4) (Quit: dsinger)
# [18:33] <Zakim> -Eric
# [18:33] <Zakim> -Sam
# [18:33] <Zakim> -Janina
# [18:33] <Zakim> -eliot
# [18:33] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
# [18:33] * Quits: Mark (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
# [18:33] * plh zakim, who is on the phone?
# [18:33] * Zakim sees on the phone: [Microsoft.a], John_Foliot
# [18:33] * Parts: JF (chatzilla@24.23.183.19)
# [18:33] * Zakim [Microsoft.a] has paulc
# [18:33] * Quits: eliot (eliot@131.107.0.75) (Quit: I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!)
# [18:33] <plh> zakim, drop Microsoft
# [18:33] <Zakim> sorry, plh, I do not see a party named 'Microsoft'
# [18:33] <plh> zakim, drop Microsoft.a
# [18:33] <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] is being disconnected
# [18:33] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
# [18:33] <plh> zakim, drop John
# [18:33] <Zakim> John_Foliot is being disconnected
# [18:33] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
# [18:33] <Zakim> Attendees were Radhika_Roy, dsinger, Plh, adrianba, Sam, Julian, [Microsoft], eliot, paulc, Eric, Cynthia_Shelly, Janina, John_Foliot
# [18:34] * plh rrsagent, generate minutes
# [18:34] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/12-html-wg-minutes.html plh
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# [21:01] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10353] New: good work? no no amaizing work :) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0175.html >
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# [23:02] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10354] What happens if you do an IDL get on size for <select size=0>? Does it return 0 or 1? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0178.html > ** [Bug 10354] "Zero is not allowed" is unclear as normative text. What happens if you do an IDL get on size for <select size=0>? Does it return 0 or 1? Browsers disagree: Gecko and WebKit return 1, IE and Opera return 0. At least in the case of <select size=0>, ret <
# [23:04] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Handle the race condition of a manifest becoming 404 while a page that uses it is loading. (whatwg r5286) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Aug/0105.html >
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# [23:56] <pimpbot> planet: Mozilla MathML Project: overview of future improvements and other bugs to fix <http://www.maths-informatique-jeux.com/blog/frederic/?post/2010/08/12/Mozilla-MathML-Project%3A-overview-of-future-improvements-and-other-bugs-to-fix >
# Session Close: Fri Aug 13 00:00:00 2010
The end :)