/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2010-08-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Aug 19 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  5. # [00:44] <pimpbot> planet: CSS3 Transitions and Transforms in Gmail for the iPad <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blogspot/Dcni/~3/zl84GEuL1ds/css3-transitions-and-transforms-in.html>
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  15. # [02:44] <pimpbot> planet: Microsoft to Co-Chair New W3C Web Performance Working Group <http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/08/18/microsoft-to-co-chair-new-w3c-web-performance-working-group.aspx>
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  18. # [03:14] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9887] parsing algorithm should allow HTML content in MathML <annotation-xml> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0410.html>
  19. # [03:45] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10395] New: test test test <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0411.html>
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  48. # [10:47] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10395] test test test <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0412.html>
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  60. # [11:47] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9662] canPlayType should return enum instead of string <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0415.html> ** [Bug 9517] Homogenize linkage of external sources <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0414.html> ** [Bug 9662] canPlayType should return enum instead of string <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0413.html>
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  63. # [12:47] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9887] parsing algorithm should allow HTML content in MathML <annotation-xml> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0416.html>
  64. # [12:47] <pimpbot> planet: Will Native Mobile Applications Wither Away? <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/IfRcn0WQbWI/whither-native-applications-yes-says-whitherapps-com>
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  70. # [13:48] <pimpbot> planet: An Implausibly Illustrated Introduction to HTML5 Web Workers <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/ijPvA-xLI6M/an-implausibly-illustrated-introduction-to-html5-web-workers>
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  85. # [15:19] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10399] New: base64 def in algorithm for put to data URI <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0417.html>
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  89. # [15:50] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9662] canPlayType should return enum instead of string <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0418.html>
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  99. # [17:32] <MikeSmithX> bug 10006
  100. # [17:32] <pimpbot> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10006 contributor@whatwg.org, P3, NEW, clearTimeout/clearInterval are not clear what the behaviour should be if handle is not in the list
  101. # [17:32] <MikeSmithX> bug 10066
  102. # [17:32] <pimpbot> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10066 faulkner.steve@gmail.com, P1, NEW, replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided
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  105. # [17:50] <pimpbot> planet: RT @OReillyMedia: #Ebook Deal of the Day: HTML5: Up and Running - Only $9.99. Use code DDHUR http://oreil.ly/cjrJAY <http://twitter.com/diveintomark/statuses/21585521311>
  106. # [17:53] <plh> issue-41?
  107. # [17:53] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-41
  108. # [17:53] <trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- Decentralized extensibility -- open
  109. # [17:53] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/41
  110. # [17:53] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-41 - Web Performance Working Group Tracker (at www.w3.org)
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  113. # [18:01] <plh> trackbot-ng, start telcon
  114. # [18:01] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
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  116. # [18:01] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-html-wg-irc
  117. # [18:01] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  118. # [18:01] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  119. # [18:01] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  120. # [18:01] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be html_wg
  121. # [18:01] <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
  122. # [18:01] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  123. # [18:01] <trackbot> Date: 19 August 2010
  124. # [18:01] * plh zakim, call plh-work
  125. # [18:01] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
  126. # [18:01] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
  127. # [18:01] <Zakim> +Plh
  128. # [18:01] <paulc_> phone problems - in process of joining
  129. # [18:02] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  130. # [18:02] * Joins: eliot (eliot@131.107.0.69)
  131. # [18:02] <Zakim> + +1.732.859.aaaa
  132. # [18:02] <paulc_> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
  133. # [18:02] <Zakim> +paulc; got it
  134. # [18:02] <Zakim> +Sam
  135. # [18:03] <paulc_> zakim, who is here?
  136. # [18:03] <Zakim> On the phone I see Plh, [Microsoft], +1.732.859.aaaa, Sam
  137. # [18:03] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc
  138. # [18:03] <Zakim> On IRC I see eliot, Zakim, RRSAgent, manoski, paulc_, rubys, MikeSmith, kliehm, shepazu, aroben, plh, Yudai, Martijnc, Lachy, gavin__, laplink, arronei, hober, karl, ed_work_,
  139. # [18:03] <Zakim> ... Shunsuke, Julian, bryan_sullivan, anne5, Peter, CIA-1, webben, gavin, tH, Philip, jwm, krijnh, inimino, gsnedders, jgraham, scotfl, Hixie, johndrinkwater, drry, jmb, trackbot,
  140. # [18:03] <Zakim> ... pimpbot
  141. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  142. # [18:03] <eliot> Zakim, [Microsoft.a] has me
  143. # [18:03] <Zakim> +eliot; got it
  144. # [18:03] <paulc_> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0015.html
  145. # [18:03] <pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-08-19: WG decisions, Decision Policy, TF reports from Paul Cotton on 2010-08-17 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
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  147. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Julian
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  149. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Eric_Carlson
  150. # [18:04] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
  151. # [18:04] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  152. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Mike
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  154. # [18:05] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  155. # [18:05] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  156. # [18:05] <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is adrianba
  157. # [18:05] <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
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  159. # [18:05] <adrianba> ScribeNick: adrianba
  160. # [18:05] <adrianba> Scribe: Adrian Bateman
  161. # [18:06] <adrianba> Chair: Paul Cotton
  162. # [18:06] <adrianba> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0015.html
  163. # [18:06] <pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-08-19: WG decisions, Decision Policy, TF reports from Paul Cotton on 2010-08-17 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
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  167. # [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.425.941.aabb
  168. # [18:06] <Zakim> +John_Foliot
  169. # [18:06] <MikeSmith> agenda+ would like to ask on behalf of members of the HTML TF if the chairs have any status update on Leif's appeal/objection to the longdesc decision
  170. # [18:06] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
  171. # [18:06] <krisk> zakim, aabb is krisk
  172. # [18:06] <Zakim> +krisk; got it
  173. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Rich
  174. # [18:07] <adrianba> TOPIC: ACTION items due by Thursday, Aug 19
  175. # [18:07] <adrianba> paulc: None
  176. # [18:07] <adrianba> TOPIC: New Issues This Week
  177. # [18:07] <adrianba> paulc: None
  178. # [18:07] <adrianba> TOPIC: Working Group decisions
  179. # [18:07] <adrianba> paulc: two parts, pending which hasn't changed and a separate item pending appeal
  180. # [18:08] <adrianba> ISSUE-30?
  181. # [18:08] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-30
  182. # [18:08] <trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- closed
  183. # [18:08] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30
  184. # [18:08] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-30 - Web Performance Working Group Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  185. # [18:08] <adrianba> paulc: think it would be appropriate to have the team give an update
  186. # [18:08] <JF> http://www.malform.no/messages/appeal-issue-30.html
  187. # [18:08] <pimpbot> Title: Appeal of ISSUE-30 to the Team Contact (at www.malform.no)
  188. # [18:08] <Joshue> zakim, code?
  189. # [18:08] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Joshue
  190. # [18:08] <adrianba> MikeSmith: as i understand it Leif has asked for this to be escalated for the attention of the director
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  192. # [18:08] <JF> "...in the end caused me to write this Appeal to the Director – via the Team Contact, Mike Smith."
  193. # [18:08] <adrianba> ...I'm not sure what action we need to take
  194. # [18:09] <adrianba> ...escalating within the team means working harder to reach consensus
  195. # [18:09] <janina> zakim, call janina
  196. # [18:09] <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
  197. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Janina.a
  198. # [18:09] <Zakim> -Rich
  199. # [18:09] <adrianba> ...course of action is for Leif and others to continue to have a discussion with the chairs about it
  200. # [18:09] <adrianba> ...if that's acceptable to the chairs
  201. # [18:09] <janina> zakim, drop janina
  202. # [18:09] <Zakim> Janina.a is being disconnected
  203. # [18:09] <Zakim> -Janina.a
  204. # [18:09] <adrianba> ...if the chairs would like another approach we can do that
  205. # [18:10] <adrianba> ...the language in the process document means we don't escalate issues like this
  206. # [18:10] <janina> zakim, call janina
  207. # [18:10] <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
  208. # [18:10] <Zakim> +Janina
  209. # [18:10] <adrianba> ...if someone in the WG feels their not getting due process from chairs then the team contacts take action on that
  210. # [18:10] <adrianba> ...if chairs are acting in bad faith or does not have a foundation in the working process of the group the team should step in to fix that
  211. # [18:10] <adrianba> ...i don't feel that we are there with this issue or any other that has come up so far
  212. # [18:11] <JF> q+
  213. # [18:11] * Zakim sees JF on the speaker queue
  214. # [18:11] <adrianba> ...i think the right way is to continue to deal with this in the group
  215. # [18:11] <adrianba> paul: are you putting this back in the chairs court?
  216. # [18:11] <adrianba> plh: not yet - there is still more discussion that needs to happen
  217. # [18:11] <Zakim> +??P0
  218. # [18:12] <Joshue> zakim, ??P0 is Joshue
  219. # [18:12] <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
  220. # [18:12] <Joshue> zakim, mute me
  221. # [18:12] <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
  222. # [18:12] <adrianba> jf: for the record, the chairs mentioned an option to escalate to the director
  223. # [18:12] <adrianba> janina: but not as a suggestion, more to complete the options
  224. # [18:12] <adrianba> paulc: i was really trying to make sure my view of the options was out there
  225. # [18:13] <Joshue> q+
  226. # [18:13] * Zakim sees JF, Joshue on the speaker queue
  227. # [18:13] <adrianba> ...i take that if plh is telling us this isn't in the chairs hands then the team and the chairs will continue to work on this
  228. # [18:13] <paulc_> ack JF
  229. # [18:13] * Zakim sees Joshue on the speaker queue
  230. # [18:13] <adrianba> plh: the team didn't reply so the chairs can't give a timeline
  231. # [18:13] <adrianba> ...i can't give a timeline right now
  232. # [18:13] <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
  233. # [18:13] <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
  234. # [18:14] <adrianba> ...in theory this could run until last call
  235. # [18:14] <paulc_> ack joshue
  236. # [18:14] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  237. # [18:14] <adrianba> ...but we don't want to wait that long if possible
  238. # [18:14] <adrianba> Joshue: this seems to be a deadlock between the TF and the WG
  239. # [18:14] <adrianba> ...i hope this doesn't diminish the steps we're taking to improve a11y in html5
  240. # [18:15] <adrianba> ...we're looking for guidance from the chairs about how to move forward
  241. # [18:15] <adrianba> paulc: we're spending a lot of time on this
  242. # [18:15] <JF> +1 to Josh
  243. # [18:15] <adrianba> Joshue: we have to try to work out some kind of way to find a solution that both sides are happy with and that improves a11y in the spec
  244. # [18:15] <adrianba> paulc: this is the first time the wg has made a decision that has not gone the way the TF wanted
  245. # [18:16] <adrianba> paulc: i'll leave that comment standing, if your question was a follow-on to the question of timeline
  246. # [18:16] <adrianba> ...i will say that we're working on this and trying to find an acceptable solution
  247. # [18:16] <Joshue> zakim, mute me
  248. # [18:16] <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
  249. # [18:16] <adrianba> paulc: i'm going to try to move us on
  250. # [18:17] * Joins: mjs (mjs@69.181.196.33)
  251. # [18:17] <adrianba> ...it's obvious that the chairs and the team need to give this a high priority and we're doing that
  252. # [18:17] <Zakim> +Maciej
  253. # [18:17] <adrianba> JF: please can you communicate this back to public-html
  254. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> q?
  255. # [18:17] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  256. # [18:18] <adrianba> plh: this is one of the highest priority items that the team and chairs are dealing with
  257. # [18:18] <adrianba> paulc: I will take the request for mail to the next chairs meeting
  258. # [18:18] <adrianba> TOPIC: Decision Policy Update, Maciej S
  259. # [18:19] <adrianba> paulc: in the agenda there are links to the current, draft edited, and to the outstanding bugs
  260. # [18:19] <Zakim> -Joshue
  261. # [18:19] * Quits: Joshue (Joshue@86.44.238.1) (Quit: Quitting!)
  262. # [18:19] <adrianba> paulc: outstanding bugs most important: http://w3.org/brief/MTk0
  263. # [18:19] <pimpbot> Title: Bug List (at w3.org)
  264. # [18:19] <adrianba> mjs: most of the bugs have been filed over time and dealt with
  265. # [18:20] <adrianba> ...the most important remaining one is the process for getting into Last Call
  266. # [18:20] <thugbot> [localhost] MikeSmith: bugzilla problem: HTTP error 500
  267. # [18:20] <adrianba> ...we're working with the team on identifying the best way to handle this
  268. # [18:21] <Zakim> -John_Foliot
  269. # [18:21] <adrianba> mjs: fpwd bug will probably not update the policy - they don't happen very often and we don't have problem handling them
  270. # [18:22] <adrianba> paulc: i think it's fair to say that if we weren't discussing the LC bug we'd have distributed the v2 to the WG for consensus
  271. # [18:22] <adrianba> ...and we're going to try to figure out the LC plan as soon as possible so that we can hand all this to the WG soon
  272. # [18:22] <adrianba> TOPIC: Items closed last week
  273. # [18:23] <paulc_> issue-41?
  274. # [18:23] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-41
  275. # [18:23] <trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- Decentralized extensibility -- open
  276. # [18:23] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/41
  277. # [18:23] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-41 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  278. # [18:23] <adrianba> paulc: we did a call for advocates on the 5 proposals for issue-41
  279. # [18:23] <adrianba> ...as a result the chairs have dropped change proposals 1 and 2 from the list
  280. # [18:23] <adrianba> ...this leaves us with 3 proposals
  281. # [18:24] <paulc_> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-041
  282. # [18:24] <pimpbot> Title: Change Proposal Status (at dev.w3.org)
  283. # [18:24] * Julian IE9 comes to mind
  284. # [18:24] * rubys chuckles at the "modern brower" comment
  285. # [18:24] * plh won't quote Paul on that :)
  286. # [18:24] <adrianba> paulc: chairs are pleased that we took this step - a survey with three proposals will be easier
  287. # [18:25] <adrianba> ...more likely that we'll have a successful survey with less items to respond to
  288. # [18:25] <adrianba> ...chairs are discussing schedule for taking this forward
  289. # [18:25] <adrianba> ...started on tuesday, will be on our agenda again on monday
  290. # [18:25] <adrianba> ...could be we'll do this fairly quickly
  291. # [18:25] <adrianba> TOPIC: Items Closing This Week
  292. # [18:25] <adrianba> ISSUE-109?
  293. # [18:25] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-109
  294. # [18:25] <trackbot> ISSUE-109 -- change ARIA section title and add extra text about use of ARIA -- open
  295. # [18:25] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/109
  296. # [18:25] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-109 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  297. # [18:26] <adrianba> paulc: just bringing this to your attention
  298. # [18:26] <adrianba> TOPIC: Current WG Surveys
  299. # [18:26] <adrianba> paulc: None
  300. # [18:26] <adrianba> TOPIC: Task Force reports - Testing Task Force
  301. # [18:26] <adrianba> krisk: we met last on the 10th, meet again on 24th
  302. # [18:27] <adrianba> krisk: group is focussing on automating the getElementByClassName tests that msft and opera have submitted
  303. # [18:27] <adrianba> ...and reviewing canvas tests
  304. # [18:27] <adrianba> ...hoping that these will be completed by next time we report
  305. # [18:27] <paulc_> paulc: Have you approved more tests?
  306. # [18:28] <paulc_> Kris: No
  307. # [18:28] <adrianba> ...ramification of the automation - we probably will go back and change tests already approved
  308. # [18:28] <adrianba> ...no more have been approved while we work on this
  309. # [18:28] <adrianba> paulc: so you're focusing on this rather than increasing the approved test count
  310. # [18:28] <adrianba> krisk: nothing else to report
  311. # [18:29] <adrianba> TOPIC: Task Force reports - Accessibility Task Force
  312. # [18:29] <adrianba> paulc: two specific items
  313. # [18:29] <adrianba> ISSUE-85?
  314. # [18:29] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-85
  315. # [18:29] <trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 -- open
  316. # [18:29] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/85
  317. # [18:29] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-85 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  318. # [18:29] <adrianba> ISSUE-9?
  319. # [18:29] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-9
  320. # [18:29] <trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- how accessibility works for <video> is unclear -- open
  321. # [18:29] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/9
  322. # [18:29] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-9 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  323. # [18:30] <adrianba> janina: let me do them in reverse order
  324. # [18:30] <adrianba> ...judy and i worked on remaining edits for the requirements doc for media
  325. # [18:30] <adrianba> ...we commited to group that we will complete this by friday
  326. # [18:30] <adrianba> ...expecting that the doc will continue to evolve
  327. # [18:30] * Joins: kennyluck (kennyluck@114.25.209.129)
  328. # [18:30] <adrianba> ...but we think it's relatively complete for the kind of things
  329. # [18:31] <adrianba> ...for the aria mappings, everyone in the tf agreed that this should come back to the chairs
  330. # [18:31] <Zakim> +John_Foliot
  331. # [18:31] <adrianba> ...we did this before and the chairs asked for more edits
  332. # [18:31] <adrianba> ...we met to do this over the past couple of weeks and we have completed this
  333. # [18:31] <adrianba> ...will be coming within a day
  334. # [18:31] <paulc_> Issue-9: When the Requirements are provided we will update http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-009 and the WG will discuss the Requirements.
  335. # [18:31] * trackbot attempting to add a note to ISSUE-9.
  336. # [18:31] <trackbot> ISSUE-9 how accessibility works for <video> is unclear notes added
  337. # [18:31] <Zakim> -John_Foliot
  338. # [18:31] <pimpbot> Title: Change Proposal Status (at dev.w3.org)
  339. # [18:31] <adrianba> ...in terms of other areas, we think we are still stuck on canvas
  340. # [18:32] <adrianba> ...we have our approach and ian wanted a different alternative - nothing new here so far
  341. # [18:32] <Zakim> +John_Foliot
  342. # [18:32] <adrianba> ...keyboard access and drag&drop are things we need to focus on
  343. # [18:32] <paulc_> Issue-85: When the TF has updated bug 10066 the Chairs will ensure it gets expedited processing.
  344. # [18:32] * trackbot attempting to add a note to ISSUE-85.
  345. # [18:32] <trackbot> ISSUE-85 ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 notes added
  346. # [18:32] <pimpbot> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10066 faulkner.steve@gmail.com, P1, NEW, replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided
  347. # [18:32] <adrianba> ...haven't taken up these yet
  348. # [18:33] <adrianba> paulc: for issue 9 the change proposal page says it is for the tf to provide req document
  349. # [18:33] <adrianba> ...for issue-85 once the tf have updated bug 10066 the chairs will expedite it
  350. # [18:33] <adrianba> janina: on cavnas, we think we're in a bit of a stalemate here
  351. # [18:33] <adrianba> ...between the editor and the tf recommendation
  352. # [18:34] <adrianba> ...sticking point between caret drawing and focus
  353. # [18:34] <adrianba> ...would require authors to take an extra step to get a11y
  354. # [18:34] <adrianba> ...ian wanted to come up with a caret drawing api that would deal with this automatically
  355. # [18:34] <paulc_> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-074
  356. # [18:34] <pimpbot> Title: Change Proposal Status (at dev.w3.org)
  357. # [18:34] <adrianba> ...but there is a good deal of engineering to do this
  358. # [18:34] <adrianba> ...we're looking for an estimate of how much effort this would be
  359. # [18:35] <adrianba> paulc: it is fair to say that the chairs of PF and HTML WG are tracking this closely
  360. # [18:35] <adrianba> janina: yes
  361. # [18:35] <adrianba> paulc: one other item: i understand there is some progress looking at input queue of a11y bugs
  362. # [18:35] <adrianba> janina: we recognise we haven't kept up with new bugs
  363. # [18:35] <adrianba> ...we have created subteams for specific tasks
  364. # [18:36] <adrianba> ...at the beginning of august we created a sub-team to look at these new bugs
  365. # [18:36] <adrianba> ...they have met twice and are making progress - expect to have recommendation from them next thursday
  366. # [18:36] <adrianba> ...last week they said they were half way through which is good progress
  367. # [18:36] <adrianba> paulc: them progress is for taking up in tf?
  368. # [18:36] <adrianba> janina
  369. # [18:36] <adrianba> janina: in many cases it's resolutions
  370. # [18:37] <adrianba> paulc: are you updating the bugs with recommendations from tf?
  371. # [18:37] <adrianba> janina: i expect that is our next step
  372. # [18:37] <adrianba> paulc: thanks for the positive news on issue 9 and 85
  373. # [18:37] <Julian> q+
  374. # [18:37] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  375. # [18:37] <adrianba> TOPIC: Misc items
  376. # [18:37] <adrianba> ISSUE-27?
  377. # [18:37] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-27
  378. # [18:37] <trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- open
  379. # [18:37] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27
  380. # [18:37] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-27 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  381. # [18:38] <adrianba> paulc: fair amount of discussion on the list
  382. # [18:38] <Julian> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/link-relations/current/msg00057.html
  383. # [18:38] * Quits: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58) (Ping timeout)
  384. # [18:38] <pimpbot> Title: Re: [link-relations] NEW APP DATA (at www.ietf.org)
  385. # [18:38] <paulc_> ack Julian
  386. # [18:38] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  387. # [18:38] <adrianba> julian: i think there are two points
  388. # [18:39] <adrianba> ...one, the designated experts in this case mark nottingham is asking w3c about what to do - ian pointed to whatwg spec
  389. # [18:39] <Julian> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Aug/0139.html
  390. # [18:39] <pimpbot> Title: link relation metadata considerations, was: Update on Issue-27, was: ACTION-182 and Issue-27 from Julian Reschke on 2010-08-13 (public-html@w3.org from August 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
  391. # [18:39] <adrianba> two, the metadata question about adding new data
  392. # [18:39] <adrianba> ...we didn't really agree in the link relations group about whether this is a good idea
  393. # [18:39] <adrianba> ...i made a proposal to the group (link above)
  394. # [18:39] <adrianba> ...but i haven't seen any discussion yet so not sure how to proceed
  395. # [18:40] <adrianba> paulc: first question, for the registration ian was attempting we need to get agreement on which link to use?
  396. # [18:40] <adrianba> julian: we need to decide whether to point to w3c or whatwg and if w3c is it wd or ed
  397. # [18:40] <adrianba> ...i think w3c needs to decide this
  398. # [18:41] <adrianba> paulc: does either plh or mikesmith want to comment?
  399. # [18:41] <plh> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5
  400. # [18:41] <pimpbot> Title: HTML5 (at www.w3.org)
  401. # [18:41] <adrianba> plh: i haven't reviewed this but my answer would be to link to the TR version
  402. # [18:41] <MikeSmith> q?
  403. # [18:41] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  404. # [18:41] <adrianba> paulc: that coincides with what i suggested
  405. # [18:41] <MikeSmith> issue-27?
  406. # [18:41] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-27
  407. # [18:41] <trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- open
  408. # [18:41] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27
  409. # [18:41] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-27 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  410. # [18:42] <Julian> q+
  411. # [18:42] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  412. # [18:42] <adrianba> ...is our problem here that we have issue-27, we're in the implementation phase, how should we proceed here?
  413. # [18:42] <paulc_> ack Julian
  414. # [18:42] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  415. # [18:42] <adrianba> julian: i think the question related to issue-27 is we are now testing to see if the registry works
  416. # [18:42] <adrianba> ...this includes a number of things including adding the registry then adding more meta data
  417. # [18:43] <adrianba> ...for the things in html4 and html5, someone should send a mail to the link relations to update these and point to the latest html5 doc
  418. # [18:43] <adrianba> ...we haven't had that
  419. # [18:43] <rubys> q+
  420. # [18:43] * Zakim sees rubys on the speaker queue
  421. # [18:43] <adrianba> ...what we have had is an attempt to link to whatwg
  422. # [18:43] <adrianba> ...the designated experts weren't happy with that
  423. # [18:43] <adrianba> paulc: sounds like someone should take an action to do that
  424. # [18:43] <MikeSmith> q?
  425. # [18:43] * Zakim sees rubys on the speaker queue
  426. # [18:44] <paulc_> ack rubys
  427. # [18:44] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  428. # [18:44] <adrianba> julian: i think it would be strange for me to do this
  429. # [18:44] <adrianba> rubys: a different suggestion that doesn't directly address this
  430. # [18:44] <adrianba> ...maybe it is time for us to issue call for counter proposals for issue-27
  431. # [18:44] <adrianba> ...may be there is consensus for a different approach - this is being suggested on the mailing list
  432. # [18:44] * Parts: JF (chatzilla@24.23.183.19)
  433. # [18:45] <adrianba> ...i think it is time to call for concrete proposals
  434. # [18:45] <Zakim> -John_Foliot
  435. # [18:45] <adrianba> paulc: in some ways you're asking my question over again - i asked about bugs but you're saying that we need the questions in the original proposals marked up?
  436. # [18:45] <adrianba> ...i think i was saying the same thing that you did
  437. # [18:46] <adrianba> ...we have a change proposal the wg endorsed - you're suggesting we need to edit this
  438. # [18:46] <adrianba> rubys: i'm not sure the wg endorsed this
  439. # [18:46] <adrianba> paulc: then we should try to get consensus about these including potentially alternate change proposals
  440. # [18:47] <adrianba> ...julian, could we get into the change proposal the various questions
  441. # [18:47] <Julian> it was Mark
  442. # [18:47] <adrianba> ...i also think we should get someone to take the action to send the mail on html4/5 to the link relations list
  443. # [18:47] <adrianba> ...do i have a volunteer?
  444. # [18:48] <adrianba> julian: i can help draft the mail but someone else needs to send it
  445. # [18:48] <paulc_> ACTION on paulc for the things in html4 and html5, send a mail to the link relations email list to update these and point to the latest html5 doc
  446. # [18:48] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  447. # [18:48] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - on
  448. # [18:48] <Julian> mailing list info: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/link-relations
  449. # [18:48] <pimpbot> Title: link-relations Info Page (at www.ietf.org)
  450. # [18:49] <adrianba> MikeSmith: please put the action on me
  451. # [18:49] * Parts: richardschwerdtfe (RichS@99.39.114.91)
  452. # [18:49] <paulc_> ACTION on miketm for the things in html4 and html5, send a mail to the link relations email list to update these and point to the latest html5 doc
  453. # [18:49] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  454. # [18:49] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - on
  455. # [18:49] <paulc_> ACTION miketm for the things in html4 and html5, send a mail to the link relations email list to update these and point to the latest html5 doc
  456. # [18:49] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  457. # [18:49] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - miketm
  458. # [18:50] <paulc_> ACTION" michaeltm fo the things in html4 and html5, send a mail to the link relations email list to update these and point to the latest html5 doc
  459. # [18:50] <paulc_> ACTION: michaeltm for the things in html4 and html5, send a mail to the link relations email list to update these and point to the latest html5 doc
  460. # [18:50] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  461. # [18:50] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - michaeltm
  462. # [18:50] * RRSAgent records action 1
  463. # [18:51] <MikeSmith> ACTION: Michael(tm) to ... for the things in html4 and html5, send a mail to the link relations email list to update these and point to the latest html5 doc
  464. # [18:51] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  465. # [18:51] * RRSAgent records action 2
  466. # [18:51] <trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - ... for the things in html4 and html5, send a mail to the link relations email list to update these and point to the latest html5 doc [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2010-08-26].
  467. # [18:51] <adrianba> julian: the other question was the two flags of meta data ian wants to add
  468. # [18:51] <adrianba> ...about the effect on an A element and a LINK element
  469. # [18:51] <adrianba> ...had been in the html spec for a long time
  470. # [18:52] <adrianba> ...was in the change proposals for issue-27
  471. # [18:52] <adrianba> ...but it could mean that a link relation could be disallowed on a link element
  472. # [18:52] <Zakim> -Eric_Carlson
  473. # [18:52] <adrianba> ...but it would be odd for a link relation to not be allowed on a link element
  474. # [18:52] <adrianba> ...so i would like us to discuss this
  475. # [18:52] <Julian> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Aug/0139.html
  476. # [18:52] <pimpbot> Title: link relation metadata considerations, was: Update on Issue-27, was: ACTION-182 and Issue-27 from Julian Reschke on 2010-08-13 (public-html@w3.org from August 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
  477. # [18:52] <Zakim> +Eric_Carlson
  478. # [18:53] <adrianba> ...without this the metadata in the link registry would be simpler
  479. # [18:53] <adrianba> ...if the html wg decides that's what we want then the ietf will register these flags
  480. # [18:53] <adrianba> ...but we'd like the html wg to make sure this really makes sense
  481. # [18:53] <adrianba> paulc: can you file this as a bug?
  482. # [18:53] <adrianba> julian: i have filed bugs - i need to investigate the status
  483. # [18:54] <adrianba> paulc: if they've been rejected and you disagree then escalate
  484. # [18:54] <paulc_> ACTION: julian to investigate status of bugs on link relations
  485. # [18:54] * RRSAgent records action 3
  486. # [18:54] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  487. # [18:54] <trackbot> Created ACTION-186 - Investigate status of bugs on link relations [on Julian Reschke - due 2010-08-26].
  488. # [18:54] <adrianba> julian: not sure if this is already done - will check and come back by tomorrow
  489. # [18:56] <adrianba> paulc: these actions should move things along, we may need to consider sam's approach after
  490. # [18:56] <adrianba> TOPIC: Other business
  491. # [18:56] <adrianba> paulc: None
  492. # [18:56] <adrianba> TOPIC: Scribe for next meeting
  493. # [18:56] <adrianba> paulc: volunteers?
  494. # [18:56] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  495. # [18:56] <paulc_> Paul will volunteer to scribe next week.
  496. # [18:56] <adrianba> TOPIC: Adjournment
  497. # [18:56] <adrianba> paulc: adjourned
  498. # [18:57] <Zakim> -krisk
  499. # [18:57] <paulc_> Adjourned at 12:55 ET
  500. # [18:57] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  501. # [18:57] <Zakim> - +1.732.859.aaaa
  502. # [18:57] <Zakim> -Eric_Carlson
  503. # [18:57] <Zakim> -adrianba
  504. # [18:57] <Zakim> -Plh
  505. # [18:57] <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop Mike
  506. # [18:57] <Zakim> Mike is being disconnected
  507. # [18:57] <Zakim> -Mike
  508. # [18:57] * Quits: manoski (stanmanosk@68.44.187.37) (Quit: manoski)
  509. # [18:57] * Quits: eliot (eliot@131.107.0.69) (Quit: Hard work pays off in the future, laziness pays off now)
  510. # [18:57] <Zakim> -Janina
  511. # [18:57] * Quits: janina (janina@66.92.170.107) (Quit: using sirc version 2.211+ssfe)
  512. # [18:57] <Zakim> -Maciej
  513. # [18:57] <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
  514. # [18:57] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
  515. # [18:57] <adrianba> rrsagent, make logs public
  516. # [18:57] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, adrianba
  517. # [18:57] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  518. # [18:58] <Zakim> -Julian
  519. # [18:58] * Quits: krisk (477029dc@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC)
  520. # [19:01] <Zakim> -Sam
  521. # [19:01] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  522. # [19:01] <Zakim> Attendees were Plh, +1.732.859.aaaa, paulc, Sam, [Microsoft], eliot, Julian, Eric_Carlson, Mike, Cynthia_Shelly, adrianba, +1.425.941.aabb, John_Foliot, krisk, Rich, Janina.a,
  523. # [19:01] <Zakim> ... Janina, Joshue, Maciej
  524. # [19:01] <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
  525. # [19:01] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
  526. # [19:01] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 19 Aug 2010 (at www.w3.org)
  527. # [19:02] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  528. # [19:04] * Quits: adrianba (Adrian@131.107.0.76) (Quit: Bye)
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  536. # [20:01] * Quits: plh (plh@128.30.52.28) (Quit: always accept cookies)
  537. # [20:02] * Joins: plh (plh@128.30.52.28)
  538. # [20:03] * Parts: eric_carlson (eric_carls@17.203.15.26)
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  540. # [20:04] * Quits: tinkster (tai@81.2.120.180) (Ping timeout)
  541. # [20:06] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.59.50) (Quit: Leaving)
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  544. # [20:14] * Joins: tinkster (tai@81.2.120.180)
  545. # [20:23] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9887] parsing algorithm should allow HTML content in MathML <annotation-xml> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0420.html> ** [Bug 10405] New: Should be "</p>" in <p><button>Submit order</button><p> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0419.html>
  546. # [20:46] * Quits: tinkster (tai@81.2.120.180) (Ping timeout)
  547. # [20:53] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10202] use of "codecs" parameter <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0421.html>
  548. # [20:53] <pimpbot> "planet: HTML5: Up and Running \n - O'Reilly Media <\x0311http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596806026/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter\x0f>"
  549. # [21:23] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10403] New: The argument to putImageData will be an ImageData object or null <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0423.html> ** "[Bug 10202] use of "codecs" parameter" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0422.html>
  550. # [21:28] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Ping timeout)
  551. # [21:30] <thugbot> [localhost] MikeSmith: bugzilla problem: HTTP error 500
  552. # [21:32] <MikeSmith> thanks
  553. # [21:32] * Joins: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233)
  554. # [21:32] <MikeSmith> borkened for real right now
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  557. # [22:53] * Joins: tinkster (tai@81.2.120.180)
  558. # [22:54] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10404] New: pre needs class=idl <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0424.html>
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  563. # [23:24] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9683] tbody element in Polyglot documents <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0427.html> ** [Bug 10066] replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0426.html> ** [Bug 9887] parsing algorithm should allow HTML content in MathML <annotation-xml> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0425.h
  564. # [23:25] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@111.188.28.26) (Ping timeout)
  565. # [23:42] * Quits: aroben (aroben@71.58.77.15) (Connection reset by peer)
  566. # [23:54] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 9887] parsing algorithm should allow HTML content in MathML <annotation-xml>" (4 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Aug/0431.html>
  567. # [23:56] * Quits: plh (plh@128.30.52.28) (Quit: always accept cookies)
  568. # Session Close: Fri Aug 20 00:00:00 2010

The end :)