/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2010-08-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Aug 27 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  49. # [12:59] <anne> Julian, why no reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2010JulSep/0246.html ?
  50. # [13:12] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@114.48.82.166) (Quit: The curfew tolls the knell of parting day... the plowman homeward plods his weary way)
  51. # [13:37] <Julian> anne, because I didn't have a good answer right away (nor now), and then forgot.
  52. # [13:38] <anne> fair enough
  53. # [13:38] <anne> shouldn't an issue be raised then?
  54. # [13:39] <Julian> I think we should do that while working onhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/trac/ticket/238
  55. # [13:40] <Julian> Optimally, when replying to that thread, include the issue number in the subject (I just forgot)
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  57. # [13:58] <anne> i have nothing to add really
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  60. # [15:04] <Julian> anne, +1 on followRedirects. I wish the default could be false, though.
  61. # [15:06] <anne> we're not going to change how XMLHttpRequest works by default
  62. # [15:06] <anne> o_O
  63. # [15:07] <Julian> understood
  64. # [15:13] <Julian> anne, if I made a proposal to expose intermediate responses (1xx), would that have a chance of getting considered?
  65. # [15:14] <anne> if the use cases are solid and a varied set of people is interested and it does not break backwards compatibility it will be considered
  66. # [15:14] <anne> well, it will be considered nonetheless, but that will give it a chance
  67. # [15:15] <anne> though ideally not many more features are added at this point
  68. # [15:15] <anne> implementations are somewhat behind already
  69. # [15:15] <Julian> understood
  70. # [15:16] <Julian> use cases are of course a bit chicken-and-egg; there's not a lot of energy specifying 1xx (such as for progress notifications) when clients can't make any use of it
  71. # [15:16] <Julian> I think there's some experimental work for progress notifications using 1xx in Mozilla, though.
  72. # [15:17] <anne> so these are progress notifications for when the actual response is not yet ready
  73. # [15:17] <anne> hmm
  74. # [15:18] <Julian> yes
  75. # [15:18] <Julian> i'll try to find the draft
  76. # [15:18] <anne> so how likely is it that this stuff is going to be obsolete because of SPDY / WebSocket?
  77. # [15:18] <Julian> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-decroy-http-progress-04
  78. # [15:18] <anne> (or needed a lot less)
  79. # [15:18] <Julian> but I think there was something newer as well.
  80. # [15:18] <anne> I think I saw that
  81. # [15:19] <Julian> not sure whether SPDY would change that at all; isn't that mainly a more efficient way to encode HTTP messages?
  82. # [15:20] <Julian> here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2010AprJun/0210.html
  83. # [15:21] <Julian> so they're experimenting with Chrome
  84. # [15:27] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@38.117.156.163)
  85. # [15:29] <anne> SPDY also changes the way connections work
  86. # [15:29] <anne> but I'm not sure to what extent
  87. # [15:31] <Julian> "SPDY is intended to be as compatible as possible with current web-based applications. This means that, from the perspective of the server business logic or application API, the features of HTTP must not change. To achieve this, all of the application request and response header semantics are preserved, although the syntax of conveying those semantics has changed. Thus, the rules from the...
  88. # [15:31] <Julian> ...HTTP/1.1 specification in RFC 2616 apply with the changes in the sections below."
  89. # [15:32] <anne> hmm
  90. # [15:32] <Julian> maybe it's time to subscribe to that mailing list
  91. # [15:32] <anne> I thought it did things like sending data it anticipated the client might need
  92. # [15:33] <anne> contrast your description with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPDY
  93. # [15:33] * Quits: Peter` (peter@85.223.116.170) (Ping timeout)
  94. # [15:33] <Julian> "Server pushed streams. This enables content to be pushed from servers to clients without a request."
  95. # [15:33] <Julian> the description was taken from the spec
  96. # [15:33] <anne> SSL-only too, peehee
  97. # [15:34] <anne> gonna be complex to set up your own server
  98. # [15:34] <hsivonen> I thought SPDY wasn't SSL only anymore
  99. # [15:34] <Julian> and might be controversial in certain environments
  100. # [15:34] <Julian> "The SPDY Specification is split into two parts: a framing layer, which multiplexes a TCP connection into independent, length-prefixed frames, and an HTTP layer, which specifies the mechanism for overlaying HTTP request/response pairs on top of the framing layer. While some of the framing layer concepts are isolated from the HTTP layer, building a generic framing layer has not been a goal....
  101. # [15:34] <Julian> ...The framing layer is tailored to the needs of the HTTP protocol and server push. "
  102. # [15:34] <Julian> see http://dev.chromium.org/spdy/spdy-protocol/spdy-protocol-draft2
  103. # [15:34] <hsivonen> Julian: the kind of states that object to BlackBerry using cryto to talk to the mail server?
  104. # [15:35] <Julian> yes, that kind of states, + Australia I guess
  105. # [15:35] <Julian> and certain companies
  106. # [15:35] <Julian> and certain public instituations
  107. # [15:35] <Julian> just saying
  108. # [15:36] <Julian> henri, while I have your attemtion; did you see my mails wrt to SAXParserfactory and the HTML parser?
  109. # [15:36] * hsivonen looks
  110. # [15:36] <Julian> from last week (no pun)
  111. # [15:37] <Julian> I just noticed that one of the mails only got to Mike.
  112. # [15:37] <Lachy> Julian, what's Australia got to do with it?
  113. # [15:38] <Lachy> Australia isn't against encryption in any way
  114. # [15:38] <Julian> Don't they want to filter certain sites?
  115. # [15:38] <hsivonen> Julian: I found the email. Sorry.
  116. # [15:38] <Julian> (just hearsay)
  117. # [15:39] <Julian> henri, no problem
  118. # [15:39] <hsivonen> Julian: e.g. Finland filters by hostname not by payload
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  120. # [15:39] <Julian> I think it would be cool if the HTML parser could be used out-of-the-box from Saxon, which requires a few tweaks, and probably a new class to be available with empty constructor
  121. # [15:40] <hsivonen> Julian: I had thought Saxon required a more complex factory. Pretty nice if small hacks can fix this.
  122. # [15:40] <Lachy> The Labor government has been pushing for a mandatory filter that would block Refused Classification material based on the URL. But that plan is now all but dead given that no other major party supported the plan, and
  123. # [15:40] <Julian> Henri, Saxon has -x on the command line, which is great because you don't want the HTMLparser to parse the XSLT anyway
  124. # [15:40] <Lachy> because now that they no loner hold a majority in the House of Reps and the Greens will as of July next year hold the balance of power in the senate, there's no chance of it getting passed
  125. # [15:41] <Lachy> it's also unclear whether we will have a Labor or Liberal government, as we're currently in a state of limbo with a hung parliament.
  126. # [15:41] <Julian> Lachy, good to hear.
  127. # [15:41] <hsivonen> Julian: I'd like to integrate this.
  128. # [15:41] <Julian> ok
  129. # [15:41] <Julian> I think there are two parts
  130. # [15:42] <Julian> tuning the setfeature code so that it accepts the two requests Saxon makes (I think these specify defaults that the parser implements anyway)
  131. # [15:42] <Julian> and providing a class that instantiates the parser with the right XmlViolationPolicy for Web content
  132. # [15:42] <Julian> the first of these probably should go into the base class
  133. # [15:43] <hsivonen> one might argue that ALTER_INFOSET should have been the default from day 1
  134. # [15:44] <hsivonen> but it's not the most performant or spec-wise correct mode
  135. # [15:44] <hsivonen> it's the easiest to use in an existing app
  136. # [15:45] <Julian> no opinion on that, except that it's the one you want when using XSLT on web content (as far as I can tell)
  137. # [15:47] <Julian> I see I just repeated what I said in my mail :-) At least I'm consistent...
  138. # [15:48] <hsivonen> Julian: I'm fixing a Firefox 4 blocker, but I'll try to get back to you by email today or on Monday
  139. # [15:49] * tlr-bbl is now known as tlr
  140. # [15:49] <hsivonen> Julian: thanks for the change suggestion. It was simpler than what Mike and I thought was necessary.
  141. # [15:50] <Julian> it's totally non-urgent; take your time (it works for me with my hack so I can run my experiments when I get to them)
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  162. # [20:29] <hober> How is bug #10455 not an attempt to reopen ISSUE-30 without providing any new information?
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The end :)