/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2010-09-26 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Sep 26 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  6. # [01:45] * Topic is 'HTML WG timeline: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/0074.html + discussion guidelines: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/DiscussionGuidelines'
  7. # [01:45] * Set by MikeSmith on Tue Sep 14 11:32:56
  8. # [02:29] <pimpbot> changes: sam: Add a link to tracker requests <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0110.html>
  9. # [02:41] * Quits: tH (Rob@82.1.124.103) (Ping timeout)
  10. # [02:59] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: make the legend rendering requirements only apply when they make sense (whatwg r5504) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0111.html>
  11. # [03:01] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 10547] The rendering requirements for legend in fieldset need to change if the legend is floated or positioned" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1077.html> ** [Bug 10546] It looks like at least some browsers restrict legend display values to "block" <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1075.html> ** [Bug 10741] New: align @extension with @vendor
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  15. # [03:31] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10656] The spec says that for scripts the BOM overrides the HTTP charset <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1078.html>
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  18. # [04:02] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10549] Please remove PARSE_ERR and SERIALIZE_ERR as they are from DOM L&S which should be nuked at some point. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1081.html> ** [Bug 10548] canvas is undefined Line 27 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1080.html> ** [Bug 10244] The processing is not defined if the <ruby> content model is violated (e.g. if there are multiple <rt> element
  19. # [04:05] <hober> I'm pretty surprised there have been no responses on the ISSUE-41 poll as of yet
  20. # [04:30] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Parser: change how <option> is parsed to avoid useless implied tokens. (whatwg r5505) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0112.html>
  21. # [04:32] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10742] attributes must be taken care of <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1086.html> ** "[Bug 10551] r5032 breaks "<option><button><option>" (</option> implied by second <option> does not close <button>, as <button> is in the special category, and second <option> itself is never processed)" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1085.html> ** [Bug 1
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  25. # [05:00] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Apparently an IE oddness that everyone now supports. (whatwg r5508) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0115.html> ** hixie: copypasta (whatwg r5507) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0114.html> ** hixie: you can't get here with GET (whatwg r5506) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0113.html>
  26. # [05:02] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 10333] Spec form.encoding := form.enctype" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1095.html> ** [Bug 10567] How will the input name be processed for multiple files? can mime/multipart "part" names be the same? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1093.html> ** "[Bug 10564] There is no "rightmargin" attribute. This should be "leftmargin"." (2 messages
  27. # [05:30] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: editorial fixes around the parser (no normative changes) (whatwg r5510) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0117.html> ** hixie: Support <annotation-xml encoding='text/html'> in the parser. (experimental) (whatwg r5509) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0116.html>
  28. # [05:32] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10427] Object should be a little less scoping <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1100.html> ** [Bug 10589] figure and figcaption shouldn't automatically close p <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1099.html> ** [Bug 10588] Infinite loop with <math><mi>EOF <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1098.html> ** "[Bug 9887] parsing algorith
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  31. # [09:03] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10559] blur() is handy, and should not be ignored <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1103.html> ** [Bug 10546] It looks like at least some browsers restrict legend display values to "block" <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1102.html> ** [Bug 10740] encourage use of SHARED (vendor) prefixes: experimental--feature <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bug
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  36. # [11:54] * Topic is 'HTML WG timeline: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/0074.html + discussion guidelines: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/DiscussionGuidelines'
  37. # [11:54] * Set by MikeSmith on Tue Sep 14 11:32:56
  38. # [12:04] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10746] New: What's the point of failing in "collect WebSRT cue voice and text"? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1117.html> ** [Bug 10740] encourage use of SHARED (vendor) prefixes: experimental--feature <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1116.html> ** [Bug 10511] fragment identifier algo should use scroll element into view <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/pub
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  40. # [12:34] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10746] What's the point of failing in "collect WebSRT cue voice and text"? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1118.html>
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  48. # [13:04] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10744] None of the event handlers onload/onerror/oncuechange/onenter/onexit are used in the spec <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1119.html>
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  51. # [13:34] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9876] Clarify that a figure can be any content with a caption <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1120.html>
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  54. # [13:52] <grantg> Hello, I'd like to know if there's a way to allow a continuously running webworker to receive a message, since it seems they're blocked?
  55. # [13:52] <grantg> This is for things like joypad input in a js emu I have.
  56. # [13:53] <grantg> Right now it's kinda meshed with the UI and slowed by only being able to use 1 core.
  57. # [13:53] <grantg> It emulates the GB-Z80 (gameboy color emu).
  58. # [13:54] <grantg> I don't want to spam you, sorry, but this is a question that's been burning me.
  59. # [13:54] <grantg> Is this the wrong channel?
  60. # [13:57] <grantg> Referenced site: http://grantgalitz.org/gameboy/
  61. # [13:57] <pimpbot> Title: GameBoy Online (at grantgalitz.org)
  62. # [14:00] <grantg> Leaving, since everybody seems to be away for now.
  63. # [14:00] * Parts: grantg (80e339a2@64.62.228.82)
  64. # [14:04] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10355] Kill most or all of the special IDL attributes for marquee <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1121.html>
  65. # [14:28] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@114.48.39.51)
  66. # [14:34] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10244] The processing is not defined if the <ruby> content model is violated (e.g. if there are multiple <rt> elements, more than 2 <rp> elements, mis-ordered <rp> elements, and so forth. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1125.html> ** [Bug 10411] Why are all the RFCs referenced in .txt versions? The HTML versions are more convenient (and it's silly for HTML to avoid the HTML versions!). <http://lists.w
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  73. # [18:05] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10748] Second example snippet is incompatible with accompanying text <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1127.html> ** [Bug 10748] New: Second example snippet is identical to the first. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1126.html>
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  75. # [18:35] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 10518] Add example showing how to use <a> elements in image maps" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1129.html>
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  80. # [19:03] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Nuke the comment end space state. (whatwg r5513) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0120.html> ** 2Dapi; hixie: Make the anticlockwise argument to arc() optional default false. (whatwg r5512) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0119.html> ** hixie: For <details>, allow any of the roles that support aria-expanded. (whatwg r5511) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public
  81. # [19:05] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10587] Please remove a redundant "still in foreign" check <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1139.html> ** [Bug 10581] Drop the color input type <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1138.html> ** "[Bug 10578] Please remove the 'comment end space' state" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1137.html> ** "[Bug 10
  82. # [19:20] * Joins: anne (annevk@83.85.115.123)
  83. # [19:33] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: remove redundant text (whatwg r5514) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0121.html>
  84. # [19:35] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10248] Canvas requires a Caret Drawing call method <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1149.html> ** [Bug 10518] Add example showing how to use <a> elements in image maps <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1148.html> ** [Bug 10066] replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided (ARIA) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/11
  85. # [20:03] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: correctness in the note (whatwg r5515) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0122.html>
  86. # [20:05] * Joins: sephr (Eli@98.235.57.205)
  87. # [20:05] <sephr> Why can't <source> elements have srclang attributes so the UA can pick media in the locale most-understood by the user? I understand that <track> elements can, but they're only useful for text along with the media.
  88. # [20:06] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10591] conflicting info for table element in aria section <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1152.html> ** [Bug 10066] replace section 3.2.6 with the alternative spec text provided (ARIA) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1151.html> ** [Bug 10591] conflicting info for table element in aria section <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/11
  89. # [20:08] <anne> sephr, i think the expectation is that the audio streams would just be delivered all together with the video stream
  90. # [20:09] <anne> sephr, otherwise you'd have to bundle each audio stream with the video stream separately...
  91. # [20:09] <sephr> anne: I'm referring to having different A/V streams for a video
  92. # [20:09] <sephr> I mean completely different A/V for each language
  93. # [20:09] <sephr> disregard that previous message
  94. # [20:09] <sephr> heh
  95. # [20:10] <sephr> anne: real-word example: I run a major news network which has an online website. We have our news reported by native speakers of every language
  96. # [20:10] <anne> oh, HTML does not deal with localization of content
  97. # [20:10] <sephr> and they are all different videos though only in language and other slight differences
  98. # [20:11] <sephr> anne: but it does...
  99. # [20:11] <sephr> with the srclang attribute
  100. # [20:11] <sephr> there are various elements that support srclang in which HTML can be used for l10n
  101. # [20:11] <anne> there's no good HTML support for a page in two languages
  102. # [20:12] <anne> it's expected that the server handles that difference
  103. # [20:12] <sephr> that's when you use doctype extensions
  104. # [20:12] <anne> there's no such thing
  105. # [20:12] <sephr> that define entities for various sections of your website
  106. # [20:12] <anne> o_O
  107. # [20:12] <sephr> anne: I mean <!DOCTYPE html [ ... ] >
  108. # [20:12] <anne> yeah, that doesn't exist
  109. # [20:12] <sephr> no, it does
  110. # [20:12] <anne> did you validate it?
  111. # [20:13] <sephr> I don't need to. It's a standard thing you can do in XHTML5
  112. # [20:13] <sephr> it's part of the XML 1.0 standard
  113. # [20:13] <anne> oh XML
  114. # [20:13] <sephr> Mozilla uses localized entities for their l10n
  115. # [20:13] <anne> I guess I shouldn't have start arguing that point but instead argue the point about localization
  116. # [20:14] <sephr> you'll see stuff like &message.foo; everywhere in mozilla XUL code
  117. # [20:14] <Hixie> if you are doing it in XML, then just use the same for src=""
  118. # [20:14] <anne> yeah, they don't like it
  119. # [20:14] <anne> ask hsivonen
  120. # [20:14] <sephr> Hixie: is it worth suggestion support for srclang on <source> elements?
  121. # [20:14] <Hixie> &video;
  122. # [20:14] <sephr> ah, oh good idea
  123. # [20:14] <sephr> but still, it seems like it would be better to natively have srclang supported on sources
  124. # [20:15] <Hixie> if we ever add native localisation support, i expect we'd add that to <source>, <img>, etc, at the same time
  125. # [20:15] <Hixie> there are no current plans along those lines though
  126. # [20:15] <sephr> well not really for img
  127. # [20:15] <Hixie> in practice localisation requires so much more than just translating strings
  128. # [20:16] <sephr> Hixie: <source> is for a 'list of choices for media', right?
  129. # [20:16] <sephr> that the UA can decide to pick which one
  130. # [20:16] <Hixie> right
  131. # [20:17] <sephr> my main argument is that it would make this kind of l10n possible in normal HTML5
  132. # [20:17] <anne> it's not really intended for different video streams though; it's for the same video encoded in various ways
  133. # [20:17] <sephr> currently you have to use XHTML5 to do so
  134. # [20:18] <Hixie> yeah, lack of localisation is a known issue
  135. # [20:18] <sephr> anne: encoding can be just one of the factors that the UA evaluates
  136. # [20:18] <anne> also, how does this work with your XML 1.0 and browsers not supporting external entity files?
  137. # [20:18] <sephr> would you mind bringing up srclang on the mailing list, Hixie?
  138. # [20:18] <anne> because that is an optional part of XML that browsers do not support
  139. # [20:18] <sephr> (for <source>, specifically)
  140. # [20:19] <sephr> anne: really? Every single browser supports XML 1.0
  141. # [20:19] <sephr> (speaking about the latest versions)
  142. # [20:19] <anne> the latest version of XML 1.0 is not so much supported... but which browser supports external entity files?
  143. # [20:19] <sephr> IE9 and all of the old versions of every other browser have supported XML for ags
  144. # [20:19] <sephr> anne: every one of them
  145. # [20:19] <Hixie> sephr: well, you can bring it up, but the answer you'll get is the same: we don't do localisation yet for text, when we add that we'll add it for <source> too, and we'll probably never add it because real localisation requires far more than just changing strings so you shouldn't do it on the client side anyway
  146. # [20:20] <anne> sephr, really? hmm
  147. # [20:20] <sephr> yes
  148. # [20:20] <Hixie> only IE supports external DTDs as far as i'm aware
  149. # [20:20] <Hixie> (and in IE it's a perf nightmare)
  150. # [20:21] <anne> yeah, I'm pretty sure we do not support them
  151. # [20:21] <anne> but I haven't checked recently
  152. # [20:21] <sephr> Hixie: talking about <!DOCTYPE {public} {system} [ ... ]>
  153. # [20:21] <Hixie> oh, internal subsets are supported, sure
  154. # [20:21] <sephr> I know that Gecko definitely supports external DTDs
  155. # [20:21] <sephr> they're everywhere in XUL
  156. # [20:21] <Hixie> but you don't want to ship every translation down to the client :-)
  157. # [20:21] <anne> sephr, yes, but not over HTTP they don't
  158. # [20:21] <sephr> that's why I made my l10n.js lib, Hixie
  159. # [20:22] <sephr> you should check that out
  160. # [20:22] <anne> euh, over HTTP they don't
  161. # [20:22] <Hixie> anyway, like i said, localisation requires much more than just translation
  162. # [20:22] <sephr> I tried to make it look all HTML5-standardy
  163. # [20:22] <Hixie> so this is all moot
  164. # [20:22] <Hixie> to do a true localisation you need to have a separate page for each language, in practice
  165. # [20:22] <Hixie> e.g. google seach suggestions are completely different based on your language
  166. # [20:23] <Hixie> if you link to a local news agency, it has to be different in each locale
  167. # [20:23] <sephr> actually, they base it on your IP
  168. # [20:23] <sephr> google ignores your language and they use your IP instead
  169. # [20:23] <Hixie> if you give temperatures, it has to be different units based on the locale
  170. # [20:24] <Hixie> if you give examples of nursery rhymes, they have to be different music for each locale
  171. # [20:24] <Hixie> etc etc etc
  172. # [20:24] <sephr> that could all be done in some big strings files
  173. # [20:25] <sephr> what we really need is a normative language for people to write in that can be very accurately machine-translated :\
  174. # [20:25] <sephr> (to other langs)
  175. # [20:25] <Hixie> um yeah good luck with that :-)
  176. # [20:25] * sephr puts on glasses and lab coat
  177. # [20:34] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Make contextmenu into a MouseEvent. (whatwg r5516) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0123.html>
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  179. # [20:36] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10750] Step 6 of "collect WebSRT cue voice and text" modified the "raw text of the cue" <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1157.html> ** "[Bug 10595] contextmenu event should be a MouseEvent" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1156.html> ** [Bug 10750] New: Step 6 of "collect WebSRT cue voice and text" modified the "raw text of the cue" <http:
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  182. # [21:06] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 10575] It appears that parser-inserted scripts should block if an ancestor browsing context has a style sheet blocking scripts" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1159.html>
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  184. # [21:34] <pimpbot> changes: sam: Issue 110 is resolved <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Sep/0124.html>
  185. # [21:36] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10386] This section shouldn't be .impl <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1161.html> ** [Bug 10354] What happens if you do an IDL get on size for <select size=0>? Does it return 0 or 1? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1160.html>
  186. # [22:05] <Hixie> MikeSmith: bugzilla is failing to send mail
  187. # [22:06] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10656] The spec says that for scripts the BOM overrides the HTTP charset <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Sep/1162.html>
  188. # [22:12] * Joins: Dashimon (noone@84.72.44.201)
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The end :)