/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2012-02-16 / end

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  84. # [18:07] <Julian> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  85. # [18:08] <adrianba> trackbot, start telcon
  86. # [18:08] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
  87. # [18:08] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  88. # [18:08] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-html-wg-irc
  89. # [18:08] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  90. # [18:08] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  91. # [18:08] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be html_wg
  92. # [18:08] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  93. # [18:08] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  94. # [18:08] <trackbot> Date: 16 February 2012
  95. # [18:08] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  96. # [18:08] * Joins: rubys (rubys@98.27.59.167)
  97. # [18:08] <Zakim> +glenn
  98. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  99. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  100. # [18:09] <Julian> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  101. # [18:09] <Zakim> On the phone I see Radhika_Roy, +1.619.846.aaaa, Julian, glenn, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a]
  102. # [18:09] <Julian> Zakim, mute me
  103. # [18:09] <Zakim> Julian should now be muted
  104. # [18:09] <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
  105. # [18:09] <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
  106. # [18:09] <hober> Zakim, aaaa is me
  107. # [18:09] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  108. # [18:09] <paulc_> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
  109. # [18:09] <Zakim> +paulc; got it
  110. # [18:09] * hober is on the bus and can't scribe, sorry paulc
  111. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Sam
  112. # [18:10] <paulc_> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012JanMar/0015.html
  113. # [18:11] * Joins: Judy (jbrewer@128.30.52.169)
  114. # [18:11] <rubys> topic: ACTION items due by Thursday, February 16
  115. # [18:11] <rubys> paulc: none
  116. # [18:11] <rubys> scribe: rubys
  117. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
  118. # [18:11] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  119. # [18:11] <Zakim> +Mike
  120. # [18:11] <Judy> zakim, code?
  121. # [18:11] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Judy
  122. # [18:11] <rubys> topic: New Issues This Week
  123. # [18:11] <rubys> issue-204?
  124. # [18:11] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-204
  125. # [18:11] <trackbot> ISSUE-204 -- Exempt ARIA attributes from the rule that prohibits reference to hidden elements -- open
  126. # [18:11] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204
  127. # [18:11] <rubys> paulc: split off issue 30
  128. # [18:11] <rubys> issue-205?
  129. # [18:11] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-205
  130. # [18:11] <trackbot> ISSUE-205 -- Define what author guidance and/or methods should be provided to those that wish to create accessible text editors using canvas as a rendering surface. -- open
  131. # [18:11] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/205
  132. # [18:12] <Zakim> +Judy
  133. # [18:12] <rubys> paulc: split off issue 131, simplifying that issue
  134. # [18:12] <rubys> issue-80?
  135. # [18:12] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-80
  136. # [18:12] <trackbot> ISSUE-80 -- document conformance and device dependent display of title attribute content -- open
  137. # [18:12] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/80
  138. # [18:12] <rubys> reopened: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0105.html
  139. # [18:13] <rubys> paulc: one tracker request (escallation on a non-last call item)
  140. # [18:13] <paulc_> http://w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG&keywords=TrackerRequest
  141. # [18:13] <Zakim> +mjs
  142. # [18:13] <rubys> paulc: chairs are prioritizing last-call items first, we have not processed this request
  143. # [18:13] <rubys> topic: Items Closed Last Week
  144. # [18:13] <rubys> judy: I have comments on 204
  145. # [18:13] <rubys> paulc: go ahead
  146. # [18:14] <rubys> judy: Janina and I are requesting a co-ordination call with you (paulc) on the split of issue-30 and the timing
  147. # [18:15] <rubys> paulc: can you put a link in the minutes to the concerns?
  148. # [18:15] <rubys> judy: it would be valuable to have a call
  149. # [18:16] <rubys> paulc: I will check my calendar
  150. # [18:16] <rubys> judy: if you aren't available, I would appreciate meeting with at least one of the co-chairs
  151. # [18:16] <rubys> paulc: send us an email, and we will find a slot that works
  152. # [18:17] <rubys> topic: Items Closed Last Week
  153. # [18:17] <rubys> issue-172?
  154. # [18:17] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-172
  155. # [18:17] <trackbot> ISSUE-172 -- restore <rb> as an optional element -- open
  156. # [18:17] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/172
  157. # [18:17] <rubys> issue-183?
  158. # [18:17] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-183
  159. # [18:17] <trackbot> ISSUE-183 -- Enhance and simplify the time element -- open
  160. # [18:17] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/183
  161. # [18:17] <rubys> issue-184?
  162. # [18:17] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-184
  163. # [18:17] <trackbot> ISSUE-184 -- Add a data element -- open
  164. # [18:17] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/184
  165. # [18:18] <rubys> three call for alternate proposals above closed on Feb 11
  166. # [18:18] <rubys> issue-131?
  167. # [18:18] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-131
  168. # [18:18] <trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? -- open
  169. # [18:18] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
  170. # [18:18] <rubys> issue-179?
  171. # [18:18] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-179
  172. # [18:18] <trackbot> ISSUE-179 -- {audio,video} require param child (or equivalent) -- open
  173. # [18:18] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/179
  174. # [18:18] <rubys> both call for proposals closed Feb 11
  175. # [18:18] <rubys> paulc: this agenda doesn't cover items that closed yesterday (or today)
  176. # [18:19] <rubys> paulc: if there are no change proposals, expect the issue to be closed. If there are no counters, expect a call for consensus
  177. # [18:19] <rubys> topic: Items Closing This Week
  178. # [18:19] <rubys> issue-193?
  179. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-193
  180. # [18:19] <trackbot> ISSUE-193 -- Remove CSS example that promotes inaccessible content -- open
  181. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/193
  182. # [18:19] <rubys> issue-194?
  183. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-194
  184. # [18:19] <trackbot> ISSUE-194 -- Provide a mechanism for associating a full transcript with an audio or video element. -- open
  185. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/194
  186. # [18:19] <rubys> issue-195?
  187. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-195
  188. # [18:19] <trackbot> ISSUE-195 -- Enhance http request generation from forms -- raised
  189. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/195
  190. # [18:19] <rubys> issue-196?
  191. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-196
  192. # [18:19] <trackbot> ISSUE-196 -- Define user agent http response handling behaviour -- raised
  193. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/196
  194. # [18:19] <rubys> issue-197?
  195. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-197
  196. # [18:19] <trackbot> ISSUE-197 -- Accept attribute should allow file extensions in addition to the current allowed values -- open
  197. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/197
  198. # [18:20] <rubys> paulc: all the above closed yesterday
  199. # [18:20] <rubys> issue-182?
  200. # [18:20] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-182
  201. # [18:20] <trackbot> ISSUE-182 -- Advice in spec about annotations promotes inaccessible content -- open
  202. # [18:20] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/182
  203. # [18:20] <rubys> issue-185?
  204. # [18:20] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-185
  205. # [18:20] <trackbot> ISSUE-185 -- Drop the pubdate attribute -- open
  206. # [18:20] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/185
  207. # [18:20] <rubys> issue-188?
  208. # [18:20] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-188
  209. # [18:20] <trackbot> ISSUE-188 -- Text tracks in HTML should be defined in a way agnostic of the specific caption format -- open
  210. # [18:20] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/188
  211. # [18:20] <rubys> issue-189?
  212. # [18:20] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-189
  213. # [18:20] <trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
  214. # [18:20] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
  215. # [18:20] <rubys> issue-198?
  216. # [18:20] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-198
  217. # [18:20] <trackbot> ISSUE-198 -- Ensure innerHTML and related APIs are subject to the W3C patent policy -- raised
  218. # [18:20] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/198
  219. # [18:20] <rubys> issue-199?
  220. # [18:20] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-199
  221. # [18:20] <trackbot> ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements for ARIA attributes -- raised
  222. # [18:20] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
  223. # [18:20] <rubys> issue-200?
  224. # [18:20] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-200
  225. # [18:20] <trackbot> ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements -- raised
  226. # [18:20] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200
  227. # [18:21] <rubys> issue-201?
  228. # [18:21] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-201
  229. # [18:21] <trackbot> ISSUE-201 -- Provide canvas location and hit testing capability to fallback content -- open
  230. # [18:21] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
  231. # [18:21] <rubys> issue-202?
  232. # [18:21] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-202
  233. # [18:21] <trackbot> ISSUE-202 -- Missing alt should not be considered conforming in the presence of figcaptions over 50 words in length -- raised
  234. # [18:21] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202
  235. # [18:21] <rubys> issue-203?
  236. # [18:21] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-203
  237. # [18:21] <trackbot> ISSUE-203 -- All Media Elements should have the ability to have both short and longer textual descriptions associated to the element -- raised
  238. # [18:21] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/203
  239. # [18:21] <rubys> paulc: the above closes today
  240. # [18:21] <Judy> With reference to agendum # 1 above, and the request to meet w/ Paul or another Co-Chair regarding procedural concerns about new issue #204, background is in Text Subteam minutes, with notes following "30: Longdesc" http://www.w3.org/2012/02/14-text-minutes.html#item01
  241. # [18:22] <rubys> topic: Items Closing Next Week
  242. # [18:22] <rubys> issue-187?
  243. # [18:22] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-187
  244. # [18:22] <trackbot> ISSUE-187 -- Document conformance has to be stable over the time -- open
  245. # [18:22] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/187
  246. # [18:22] <rubys> issue-190?
  247. # [18:22] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-190
  248. # [18:22] <trackbot> ISSUE-190 -- Replace poor coding example for figure with multiple images -- open
  249. # [18:22] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/190
  250. # [18:22] <rubys> issue-191?
  251. # [18:22] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-191
  252. # [18:22] <trackbot> ISSUE-191 -- Replace/complement <ins> and <del> elements by a cleaner wysiwyg-safe attribute-based solution -- open
  253. # [18:22] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/191
  254. # [18:22] <rubys> issue-192?
  255. # [18:22] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-192
  256. # [18:22] <trackbot> ISSUE-192 -- title attribute definition does not match reality -- open
  257. # [18:22] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/192
  258. # [18:22] <rubys> paulc: these four close Feb 23
  259. # [18:23] <rubys> topic: New Calls this week
  260. # [18:23] <rubys> issue-80?
  261. # [18:23] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-80
  262. # [18:23] <trackbot> ISSUE-80 -- document conformance and device dependent display of title attribute content -- open
  263. # [18:23] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/80
  264. # [18:23] <rubys> paulc: this was reopened, and as we got a change proposal, we have issued a call for alternate or counter proposals closing March 14
  265. # [18:23] <rubys> issue-131?
  266. # [18:23] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-131
  267. # [18:23] <trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? -- open
  268. # [18:23] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
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  271. # [18:24] <rubys> paulc: we have proposals, so we have issued a call for alternate or counters, also closing on march 14th
  272. # [18:24] <rubys> issue-158?
  273. # [18:24] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-158
  274. # [18:24] <trackbot> ISSUE-158 -- HTML4's content-model for <object> should continue -- open
  275. # [18:24] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/158
  276. # [18:24] <Zakim> +??P6
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  278. # [18:24] <rubys> paulc: also closed on March 14th
  279. # [18:24] * Joins: janina (janina@98.233.46.141)
  280. # [18:24] <rubys> issue-204?
  281. # [18:24] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-204
  282. # [18:24] <trackbot> ISSUE-204 -- Exempt ARIA attributes from the rule that prohibits reference to hidden elements -- open
  283. # [18:24] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204
  284. # [18:24] <rubys> paulc: we granted until March 10th to provide a proposal
  285. # [18:24] <rubys> issue-205?
  286. # [18:24] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-205
  287. # [18:24] <trackbot> ISSUE-205 -- Define what author guidance and/or methods should be provided to those that wish to create accessible text editors using canvas as a rendering surface. -- open
  288. # [18:24] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/205
  289. # [18:25] <rubys> paulc: call for alternate or counter proposals closes march 14th
  290. # [18:25] <janina> zakim, who's here?
  291. # [18:25] <Zakim> On the phone I see Radhika_Roy, hober, Julian (muted), glenn, [Microsoft], adrianba, Sam, Mike, Judy, mjs, ??P6
  292. # [18:25] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc
  293. # [18:25] <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, J_Voracek, JVoracek, Judy, rubys, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc_, adrianba, Julian, MFoladare, myakura, shepazu, dveditz, drublic, davidb, anne, glenn, ArtB, nonge__,
  294. # [18:25] <Zakim> ... tantek_, krijnh, mjs, arronei, tantek, Hixie, [tm], gavin, MikeSmith, rektide, Jedi, webben, heycam|away, johndrinkwater, ed, pingo, Dashiva, jgraham, inimino, CIA-1, trackbot,
  295. # [18:25] <Zakim> ... lgombos, hiro, hober, hsivonen, gsnedders, paul___irish, Philip, jmb
  296. # [18:25] <rubys> topic: New Surveys this week
  297. # [18:25] <rubys> paulc: there are none
  298. # [18:25] <rubys> topic: Decisions this week
  299. # [18:25] * Joins: plh (plh@128.30.52.28)
  300. # [18:25] <rubys> paulc: there are none
  301. # [18:25] * Quits: plh (plh@128.30.52.28) (Client exited)
  302. # [18:25] <rubys> topic: Other Business
  303. # [18:25] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/QA/2012/02/openweb-weekly-27.html
  304. # [18:26] <rubys> paulc: this is nearly two weeks old, there may be a more recent one
  305. # [18:26] <rubys> topic: re-open request for issue 31
  306. # [18:26] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0139.html
  307. # [18:26] * Joins: plh (plh@128.30.52.28)
  308. # [18:26] * Quits: JVoracek (J_Voracek@71.21.195.70) (Ping timeout)
  309. # [18:26] <rubys> paulc: we originally could not find new information, and the a11y task force is working on a revised version
  310. # [18:27] <rubys> janina: we have a strong interest in having this taken up again; the proposal has significantly been beefed up.
  311. # [18:28] <rubys> janina: unclear that this was dealt with appropriately originally
  312. # [18:29] <rubys> janina: we are now pointing to the original decision to justify the reopening
  313. # [18:29] <paulc_> Revised request is in: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
  314. # [18:29] <rubys> janina: we should have a email to the chairs and wg by monday
  315. # [18:29] * Quits: drublic (drublic@95.115.33.166) (Ping timeout)
  316. # [18:30] <rubys> topic: Request to Reconsider Meta Generator Alt Exception
  317. # [18:30] <rubys> paulc: the chairs have reviewed this request and will be responding today
  318. # [18:30] <rubys> topic: i18n WG position on Issue-172 "restore <rb> as an optional element"
  319. # [18:30] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0103.html
  320. # [18:30] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0197.html
  321. # [18:31] <rubys> paulc: chairs want to make it clear what the next status is
  322. # [18:31] <rubys> topic: Change proposal reviews
  323. # [18:31] <rubys> issue-30?
  324. # [18:31] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-30
  325. # [18:31] <trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- open
  326. # [18:31] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30
  327. # [18:31] <rubys> paulc: we have having a dialog with Laura on 30
  328. # [18:31] <rubys> issue-170?
  329. # [18:32] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-170
  330. # [18:32] <trackbot> ISSUE-170 -- make URIs valid link relations -- open
  331. # [18:32] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/170
  332. # [18:32] <rubys> paulc: we are having dialogs with the authors of the proposals on 170
  333. # [18:32] <rubys> issue-134?
  334. # [18:32] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-134
  335. # [18:32] <trackbot> ISSUE-134 -- Provide tablist and tab states for menu and command elements respectively -- open
  336. # [18:32] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134
  337. # [18:32] <rubys> paulc: the chairs are having dialogs with the various authors and the WG can expect more
  338. # [18:33] * nonge__ is now known as nonge
  339. # [18:33] <rubys> janina: Thanks for 134, I am concerned about recent developments around longdesc, this is not just Laura's proposal but a TaskForce backed proposal
  340. # [18:34] <rubys> janina: we are disappointed that a split off happened based on ARIA, it would have been helpful to have been coordinating that more closely
  341. # [18:34] * Joins: adrianba_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  342. # [18:34] <rubys> paulc: janina is repeating judy's concerns about issue 204
  343. # [18:35] <Judy> q+
  344. # [18:35] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  345. # [18:35] * Quits: adrianba (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  346. # [18:35] <rubys> paulc: the feedback on 30 was to put the material relevant to the change proposal in the proposal itself
  347. # [18:35] <rubys> ack judy
  348. # [18:35] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  349. # [18:35] <rubys> judy: there appears to have been changes in the advice over time over this
  350. # [18:36] <rubys> judy: in the past, we were advised to put in links; perhaps we could get more uniform guidance?
  351. # [18:37] <rubys> paulc: the underlying principle is to help the CP authors to make their case as possible; in this case we found some arguments that we thought the author could use to make their proposal stronger; if the authors don't wish to make their proposal stronger, that's their choice.
  352. # [18:38] <rubys> judy: I'm hearing that you prefer all of the text to be a single page?
  353. # [18:39] <rubys> paulc: we review each on their merits, and in this case we thought this particular proposal would be improved by making this specific text into the base text.
  354. # [18:39] <rubys> paulc: any other business to raise?
  355. # [18:39] <rubys> topic: Chair and Scribe for next meeting
  356. # [18:40] <rubys> paulc: Maciej likely will be the chair
  357. # [18:40] <rubys> glenn: I can scribe
  358. # [18:40] <rubys> topic: Adjournment
  359. # [18:40] <rubys> rrsagent, publish minutes
  360. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-html-wg-minutes.html rubys
  361. # [18:40] <Zakim> -Mike
  362. # [18:40] <Zakim> -Julian
  363. # [18:40] <Zakim> -glenn
  364. # [18:40] <Zakim> -adrianba
  365. # [18:40] <Zakim> -Sam
  366. # [18:40] <Zakim> -Judy
  367. # [18:40] <Zakim> -??P6
  368. # [18:40] <Zakim> -hober
  369. # [18:40] <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
  370. # [18:40] * Parts: janina (janina@98.233.46.141)
  371. # [18:40] <Zakim> -mjs
  372. # [18:40] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  373. # [18:40] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  374. # [18:40] <Zakim> Attendees were Radhika_Roy, +1.619.846.aaaa, Julian, glenn, adrianba, hober, paulc, Sam, Mike, Judy, mjs
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  423. # Session Close: Fri Feb 17 00:00:01 2012

The end :)