/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2012-07-12 / end

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  151. # [18:04] <glenn> zakim, this will be html_wg
  152. # [18:04] <Zakim> ok, glenn; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
  153. # [18:04] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
  154. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P6
  155. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P13
  156. # [18:04] <glenn> zakim, ??p6 is glenn
  157. # [18:04] <Zakim> +glenn; got it
  158. # [18:04] <glenn> trackbot, start meeting
  159. # [18:04] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
  160. # [18:04] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  161. # [18:04] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-irc
  162. # [18:04] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  163. # [18:04] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  164. # [18:04] <yang> zakim, ??P13 is me
  165. # [18:04] <Zakim> +yang; got it
  166. # [18:04] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be html_wg
  167. # [18:04] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  168. # [18:04] <trackbot> Date: 12 July 2012
  169. # [18:04] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
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  175. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Sam
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  178. # [18:09] <Zakim> +??P27
  179. # [18:09] <glenn> mjs: i already started trackbot
  180. # [18:09] <janina> zakim, ??P27 is Janina
  181. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Janina; got it
  182. # [18:09] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  183. # [18:09] <eliot> Zakim, Microsoft has me
  184. # [18:09] <Zakim> +eliot; got it
  185. # [18:10] * Joins: MFoladare (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  186. # [18:10] <glenn> Chair: mjs
  187. # [18:10] <glenn> ScribeNick: glenn
  188. # [18:10] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  189. # [18:10] <glenn> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012JulSep/0004.html
  190. # [18:10] * Joins: krisk (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  191. # [18:10] <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
  192. # [18:10] <Zakim> +paulc; got it
  193. # [18:10] <paulc> zakim, list attendees
  194. # [18:10] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc
  195. # [18:10] <glenn> Topic: ACTION items due by Thursday, July 12
  196. # [18:10] <Zakim> +Radhika_Roy
  197. # [18:11] <Zakim> +[GVoice]
  198. # [18:11] <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has eliot
  199. # [18:11] <Zakim> +eliot; got it
  200. # [18:11] * Joins: ddorwin (Adium@24.18.54.82)
  201. # [18:11] <glenn> ACTION-217?
  202. # [18:11] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-217
  203. # [18:11] <trackbot> ACTION-217 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to create a joint Path location add hit testing binding CP for ISSUE-201 that binds canvas to fallback content (Rich, Ted, Frank) -- due 2012-06-21 -- OPEN
  204. # [18:11] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/217
  205. # [18:11] <ddorwin> zakim, [GVoice] is me
  206. # [18:11] <Zakim> +ddorwin; got it
  207. # [18:11] <Zakim> +Laura_Carlson
  208. # [18:11] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  209. # [18:12] <Zakim> +mjs
  210. # [18:12] <krisk> zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is krisk
  211. # [18:12] <Zakim> +krisk; got it
  212. # [18:12] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  213. # [18:12] * Joins: cjones (cjones@92.25.193.251)
  214. # [18:12] <Zakim> +hober
  215. # [18:12] <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft.aa] has adrianba
  216. # [18:12] <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
  217. # [18:13] <paulc> zakim, list attendees
  218. # [18:13] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba
  219. # [18:13] <glenn> mjs: one item ACTION-217
  220. # [18:14] <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft.aa] has adrianba, frankolivier
  221. # [18:14] <Zakim> adrianba was already listed in [Microsoft.aa], adrianba
  222. # [18:14] <Zakim> +frankolivier; got it
  223. # [18:14] <glenn> ... Ted and Frank are working this, SF has commented proposing his own
  224. # [18:14] <paulc> Steve's proposal is at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions
  225. # [18:14] <paulc> This is a revision to Ted's proposal
  226. # [18:14] <glenn> hober: some outstanding feedback from SF and Rich which might result in some changes
  227. # [18:14] <glenn> ... but thinks it is stable
  228. # [18:14] <Zakim> + +1.818.370.aaaa
  229. # [18:15] <glenn> paulc: SF submitted comments/changes to Ted's proposal
  230. # [18:15] <glenn> ... operative question is that others need to review SF's counter proposal
  231. # [18:15] <glenn> mjs: may need to go to survey, but two proposals are much closer now
  232. # [18:16] <paulc> Status of ISSUE-201: http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201
  233. # [18:16] <glenn> close ACTION-217
  234. # [18:16] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-217.
  235. # [18:16] <trackbot> ACTION-217 Create a joint Path location add hit testing binding CP for ISSUE-201 that binds canvas to fallback content (Rich, Ted, Frank) closed
  236. # [18:16] <glenn> paulc: should there be new action on Ted to review?
  237. # [18:16] <glenn> mjs: thinks ML thread is sufficient
  238. # [18:17] <glenn> janina: heard from rich will post soon
  239. # [18:17] <paulc> Active discussion at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0064.html
  240. # [18:17] <glenn> janina: nobody is disagreeing, sounds more like clarification discussion
  241. # [18:17] <glenn> mjs: still should be able to reach consensus
  242. # [18:18] <glenn> ... continue discussion on ML
  243. # [18:18] <glenn> Topic: New Issues This Week
  244. # [18:18] <glenn> none
  245. # [18:18] <glenn> mjs: one tracker request
  246. # [18:18] <glenn> ... to be LC2 comment
  247. # [18:18] <glenn> Topic: Items closed Last Week
  248. # [18:18] <glenn> ISSUE-189?
  249. # [18:18] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-189
  250. # [18:18] <trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
  251. # [18:18] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
  252. # [18:19] <glenn> ISSUE-200?
  253. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-200
  254. # [18:19] <trackbot> ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements -- open
  255. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200
  256. # [18:19] <glenn> mjs: both calls have closed
  257. # [18:19] <glenn> Topic: Issues Closing This Week
  258. # [18:19] <glenn> none
  259. # [18:19] <glenn> Topic: Items Closing Next Week
  260. # [18:19] <glenn> ISSUE-199?
  261. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-199
  262. # [18:19] <trackbot> ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements for ARIA attributes -- open
  263. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
  264. # [18:20] <glenn> mjs: CfC active, revisions to CPs, consensus proposal present
  265. # [18:20] <glenn> Topic: New Calls This Week
  266. # [18:20] <glenn> ISSUE-199?
  267. # [18:20] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-199
  268. # [18:20] <trackbot> ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements for ARIA attributes -- open
  269. # [18:20] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
  270. # [18:21] <glenn> Topic: New Surveys This Week
  271. # [18:21] <glenn> ISSUE-200?
  272. # [18:21] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-200
  273. # [18:21] <trackbot> ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements -- open
  274. # [18:21] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200
  275. # [18:21] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call MIke
  276. # [18:21] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  277. # [18:21] <Zakim> +MIke
  278. # [18:21] <glenn> ISSUE-189?
  279. # [18:21] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-189
  280. # [18:21] <trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
  281. # [18:21] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
  282. # [18:21] <glenn> mjs: Julian raised issue that IETF desires further discussion, will check with Philippe
  283. # [18:21] <paulc> q+
  284. # [18:21] * Zakim sees paulc on the speaker queue
  285. # [18:21] <glenn> ... may put survey on hold, but should still provide input
  286. # [18:22] <glenn> paulc: plh says go ahead with survey
  287. # [18:22] <paulc> ack paulc
  288. # [18:22] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  289. # [18:22] <glenn> paulc: will respond on ML on this thread
  290. # [18:22] <glenn> Topic: Decisions This Week
  291. # [18:22] <glenn> none
  292. # [18:22] <glenn> Topic: Task Force Reports
  293. # [18:22] <glenn> [1] Testing Task Force
  294. # [18:23] <glenn> kris: good morning, didn't meet last week will meet next week
  295. # [18:23] <krisk> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Upcoming_meetings
  296. # [18:23] <glenn> ... schedule has been extended and posted on wiki
  297. # [18:23] <glenn> ... had discussed spec change about pattern repeat, opened bug sent to list
  298. # [18:23] <krisk> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0065.html
  299. # [18:23] <glenn> ... will have to see what consensus develops
  300. # [18:23] <yang> q+
  301. # [18:23] * Zakim sees yang on the speaker queue
  302. # [18:23] <glenn> ... q/c?
  303. # [18:24] <mjs> ack yang
  304. # [18:24] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  305. # [18:24] <glenn> yang: what day is testing call?
  306. # [18:24] <krisk> Please see http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing
  307. # [18:24] <glenn> kris: see above link
  308. # [18:24] <glenn> yang: ok
  309. # [18:25] <paulc> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Conference_Calls
  310. # [18:25] <glenn> ack yang
  311. # [18:25] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  312. # [18:25] <yang> q+
  313. # [18:25] * Zakim sees yang on the speaker queue
  314. # [18:25] <glenn> [2] Accessibility Task Force
  315. # [18:25] <glenn> janina: not a lot to report
  316. # [18:26] <glenn> ... people have continued working on their tasks
  317. # [18:26] <glenn> ... lack of quorum in last call
  318. # [18:26] <glenn> ... progress, but slower than usual
  319. # [18:26] <glenn> ... chairs are aware of status changes on ISSUE-194, etc
  320. # [18:27] <glenn> ... and on ISSUE-201, nothing to add on what's been said
  321. # [18:27] <glenn> ... strongly opposed to moving ISSUE-203 forward before resolving ISSUE-30
  322. # [18:27] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aabb
  323. # [18:27] <glenn> [that is the TF is opposed]
  324. # [18:27] <glenn> mjs: yang is on queue
  325. # [18:28] <glenn> yang: noticed on ML that may decide on 3 options on ISSUE-194
  326. # [18:28] <paulc> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-194
  327. # [18:28] <glenn> ... will we discuss on this call?
  328. # [18:29] <glenn> janina: can do if folks like
  329. # [18:29] <glenn> paulc: chairs are preparing a survey on three options
  330. # [18:29] <glenn> yang: a new survey?
  331. # [18:29] <glenn> paulc: [explains process]
  332. # [18:29] <glenn> yang: another question
  333. # [18:30] <glenn> ... for ??? detection ???
  334. # [18:30] * Joins: KevinStreeter (KevinStree@192.150.10.201)
  335. # [18:30] <glenn> [scribe: did not follow question]
  336. # [18:31] <glenn> paulc: question is about hit testing and whether it is related to accessibility
  337. # [18:31] <paulc> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201
  338. # [18:31] <glenn> ... see ISSUE-201
  339. # [18:31] <glenn> paulc: [explains process about task forces]
  340. # [18:31] <glenn> ... answer is yes, it is an accessibility related issue
  341. # [18:32] <glenn> ... as are many other issues on status page posted above
  342. # [18:32] <glenn> ack yang
  343. # [18:32] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  344. # [18:32] <glenn> Topic: Other Business
  345. # [18:32] <glenn> ISSUE-189?
  346. # [18:32] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-189
  347. # [18:32] <trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
  348. # [18:32] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
  349. # [18:33] <glenn> mjs: CP was revised as requested by chairs, now have gone to survey
  350. # [18:33] <Zakim> - +1.818.370.aaaa
  351. # [18:33] <glenn> ... some questions about IETF coordination, but will proceed
  352. # [18:33] <glenn> ISSUE-201?
  353. # [18:33] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-201
  354. # [18:33] <trackbot> ISSUE-201 -- Provide canvas location and hit testing capability to fallback content -- open
  355. # [18:33] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
  356. # [18:33] <glenn> mjs: two proposals now with slightly different variants
  357. # [18:33] <glenn> ... from hober and SF
  358. # [18:33] <glenn> ... q/c?
  359. # [18:34] <glenn> ISSUE-204?
  360. # [18:34] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-204
  361. # [18:34] <trackbot> ISSUE-204 -- Exempt ARIA attributes from the rule that prohibits reference to hidden elements -- open
  362. # [18:34] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204
  363. # [18:34] <glenn> mjs: seems to have material differences in CPs
  364. # [18:35] <glenn> hober: JF and I went back and forth on this
  365. # [18:35] <glenn> ... have gotten closer, hope to find compromise wording
  366. # [18:35] <glenn> ... a little more work to get agreement with JF
  367. # [18:35] <yang> q+
  368. # [18:35] * Zakim sees yang on the speaker queue
  369. # [18:36] <glenn> janina: would be happiest if we can reach consensus on language
  370. # [18:36] <glenn> ... not sure how to move in that direction, would be good if hober can move this
  371. # [18:36] <glenn> ... great concern is there are large # of disabled users not using screen readers
  372. # [18:37] <glenn> ... problems with tab approach
  373. # [18:37] <glenn> ... probably not meeting all use cases
  374. # [18:37] <laura> "Every good-faith effort has been made here, and if at this time you and Jonas are still unprepared to endorse the V4 CP, then I will ask the Accessibility Task Force for their endorsement of the V4 CP and ask that the Chairs proceed with a WBS survey on Issue 204." - John Foliot, June 29.
  375. # [18:37] <laura> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0176.html
  376. # [18:37] <glenn> mjs: yang on queue
  377. # [18:38] <mjs> ack yang
  378. # [18:38] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  379. # [18:38] <glenn> yang: why does ARIA need to see hidden element?
  380. # [18:38] <glenn> worried about breaking service logic
  381. # [18:38] <yang> why let ARIA see the hidden, it will ruin the JS dynamic service logic
  382. # [18:38] <glenn> s/worried/... worried/
  383. # [18:39] <glenn> hober: thinks what yang is asking is whether elements that are hidden, with visibility toggled from script
  384. # [18:39] <glenn> ... shouldn't propose a problem for ARIA attributes
  385. # [18:40] <glenn> ... should be OK
  386. # [18:40] <glenn> s/propose/pose/
  387. # [18:40] * Quits: trackbot (trackbot@128.30.52.169) (Client exited)
  388. # [18:40] <glenn> yang: if disabled users use ARIA, then they can see hidden elements?
  389. # [18:41] <glenn> ... does ARIA differentiate between hidden and not hidden?
  390. # [18:42] <yang> can user see the difference by aria for hidden and not-hidden?
  391. # [18:42] <glenn> mjs: suggests taking this discussion offline
  392. # [18:42] <glenn> ... or discuss on ML
  393. # [18:42] <paulc> Yang could also attend the A11Y TF meeting
  394. # [18:42] <glenn> yang: ok
  395. # [18:42] <glenn> Using ARIA in HTML
  396. # [18:42] <glenn> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0165.html
  397. # [18:42] <yang> any A11Y TF conference call information?
  398. # [18:43] <glenn> mjs: any q/c about this document (Using AREA in HTML)?
  399. # [18:43] <glenn> glenn: what is intended purpose of this doc? for info only?
  400. # [18:43] <hober> s/AREA/ARIA/
  401. # [18:44] <glenn> paulc: intent is to fill in gaps, more readable
  402. # [18:44] <glenn> ... less jargon
  403. # [18:44] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@128.65.71.119)
  404. # [18:45] <paulc> From 0165.html: "My intention is to provide a non normative resource that fills in the gaps in the current HTML5 specification and a document that is more readable (i.e. less jargonist)"
  405. # [18:45] <glenn> glenn: thanks, yes
  406. # [18:45] <glenn> paulc: points out that it does deviate from HTML5
  407. # [18:46] <glenn> glenn: do we need further action by WG?
  408. # [18:47] * Joins: trackbot (trackbot@128.30.52.169)
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  410. # [18:47] <glenn> paulc: at present, author is requesting feedback
  411. # [18:47] <glenn> ... no specific actions for WG at this time
  412. # [18:48] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@128.65.71.119)
  413. # [18:48] <glenn> paulc: there is a bugzilla component for this...
  414. # [18:49] <paulc> Bugzilla component and link: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%20WG&component=Using%20ARIA%20in%20HTML
  415. # [18:49] <glenn> glenn: asks janina if A11Y TF has any position on this document
  416. # [18:50] <glenn> janina: not at this time, has not discussed
  417. # [18:50] <glenn> ... there is a group in TF working on mapping
  418. # [18:50] <glenn> ... so unclear
  419. # [18:50] <glenn> ... TF needs to discuss
  420. # [18:50] <glenn> Topic: AOB?
  421. # [18:51] <paulc> q+
  422. # [18:51] * Zakim sees paulc on the speaker queue
  423. # [18:51] <glenn> paulc: wants to report that group of members dealing with work on media proposal
  424. # [18:51] <glenn> ... continue to meet on weekly basis
  425. # [18:51] <glenn> ... significant advances on both EME and MSE proposals
  426. # [18:51] <paulc> EME minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0034.html
  427. # [18:52] <glenn> ... substantial changes to both interfaces to be more O-O
  428. # [18:52] <glenn> ... any one interested in that work should contact paulc
  429. # [18:52] <glenn> ... also see public-html-media archive
  430. # [18:53] <glenn> Topic: Scribe for Next Meeting
  431. # [18:53] <glenn> ack paulc
  432. # [18:53] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  433. # [18:53] <glenn> mjs: any volunteers
  434. # [18:53] <paulc> Paul will be chairing
  435. # [18:53] <glenn> Ted volunteers. Paul C will chair.
  436. # [18:53] <Zakim> -mjs
  437. # [18:53] <Zakim> - +1.415.832.aabb
  438. # [18:53] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  439. # [18:54] <Zakim> -krisk
  440. # [18:54] <Zakim> -MIke
  441. # [18:54] <Zakim> -Janina
  442. # [18:54] * Parts: janina (janina@69.140.165.18)
  443. # [18:54] <Zakim> -hober
  444. # [18:54] <glenn> Topic: Adjournment
  445. # [18:54] <glenn> mjs: adjourned
  446. # [18:54] <Zakim> -yang
  447. # [18:54] <glenn> ... see you next wek
  448. # [18:54] <Zakim> -Sam
  449. # [18:54] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aa]
  450. # [18:54] <Zakim> -Laura_Carlson
  451. # [18:54] <paulc> zakim, list attendees
  452. # [18:54] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba, frankolivier,
  453. # [18:54] * Quits: laura (laura@131.212.213.192) (Quit: laura)
  454. # [18:54] <Zakim> ... +1.818.370.aaaa, MIke, +1.415.832.aabb
  455. # [18:54] <glenn> s/wek/week/
  456. # [18:54] * Quits: yang (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  457. # [18:55] <glenn> rrsagent, draft minutes
  458. # [18:55] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html glenn
  459. # [18:55] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  460. # [18:55] <glenn> zakim, who's on phone?
  461. # [18:55] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, glenn.
  462. # [18:55] <glenn> zakim, who's on the phone?
  463. # [18:55] <Zakim> On the phone I see glenn, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin
  464. # [18:55] <Zakim> -glenn
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  468. # [18:59] <glenn> trackbot, end meeting
  469. # [18:59] * trackbot is ending a teleconference
  470. # [18:59] <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
  471. # [18:59] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba, frankolivier,
  472. # [18:59] <Zakim> ... +1.818.370.aaaa, MIke, +1.415.832.aabb
  473. # [18:59] <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  474. # [18:59] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html trackbot
  475. # [18:59] <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
  476. # [18:59] <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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  479. # [18:59] <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
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  489. # [19:44] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, ddorwin, in HTML_WG()12:00PM
  490. # [19:44] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  491. # [19:44] <Zakim> Attendees were glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba, frankolivier, +1.818.370.aaaa, MIke,
  492. # [19:44] <Zakim> ... +1.415.832.aabb
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The end :)