/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2012-09-06 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  55. # [14:10] <gitbot> [html] darobin pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/06b3575a8ce82ee19d697da50b489bd2d70707a5
  56. # [14:10] <gitbot> [html/master] refer to space characters instead of repeating - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16974 - Robin Berjon
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  62. # [14:39] <gitbot> [html] darobin pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/7fa39560197bafdb46c76d647d0321f216f7255c
  63. # [14:39] <gitbot> [html/master] minor clarity tweak - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18199 - Robin Berjon
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  66. # [14:45] <gitbot> [html] darobin pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/3e589bc6751d9d4b8f746c7b25cab64e118e397e
  67. # [14:45] <gitbot> [html/master] added gopher to the white list - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18067 - Robin Berjon
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  72. # [15:36] <gitbot> [html] darobin pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/html/compare/3e589bc6751d...371fe7e3b699
  73. # [15:36] <gitbot> [html/master] give a name to algo for parsing legacy font sizes - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18125 - Robin Berjon
  74. # [15:36] <gitbot> [html/master] fix broken markup introduced in 04cee206fd88d2d8f938b31e92b19fc91d356eb7 - Robin Berjon
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  77. # [15:44] <gitbot> [html] darobin pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/9b59fcfc27c1cd0f991def712d8de2b13be05717
  78. # [15:44] <gitbot> [html/master] moronic typo - Robin Berjon
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  96. # [18:03] <gitbot> [html] darobin pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/ab4b3dab8da4e150d18e7f514e2009d6f95381ca
  97. # [18:03] <gitbot> [html/master] define handling of XML documents that trigger no specific external processing (e.g. Atom) and that either have an HTML/SVG/MathML element somewhere inside or don't - https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15180 - Robin Berjon
  98. # [18:04] * Parts: gitbot (gitbot@108.171.174.178)
  99. # [18:07] * Joins: Barbara (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  100. # [18:08] * darobin away for a few minutes, might join the call slightly late
  101. # [18:08] * Joins: rubys (rubys@98.27.59.167)
  102. # [18:08] <rubys> trackbot, start meeting
  103. # [18:08] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
  104. # [18:08] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  105. # [18:08] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-html-wg-irc
  106. # [18:08] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  107. # [18:08] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  108. # [18:08] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  109. # [18:09] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be html_wg
  110. # [18:09] <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
  111. # [18:09] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  112. # [18:09] <trackbot> Date: 06 September 2012
  113. # [18:09] * Joins: paulc (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  114. # [18:09] * Joins: krisk (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  115. # [18:09] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
  116. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Sam
  117. # [18:10] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  118. # [18:10] * Joins: MartinSoukup (martin.sou@71.19.185.162)
  119. # [18:10] <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
  120. # [18:10] <Zakim> +paulc; got it
  121. # [18:10] * Joins: MFoladare (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  122. # [18:10] <paulc> zakim, who is on the call?
  123. # [18:10] <Zakim> On the phone I see Sam, [Microsoft]
  124. # [18:10] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc
  125. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.613.287.aaaa
  126. # [18:11] <MartinSoukup> zakim, aaaa is MartinSoukup
  127. # [18:11] <Zakim> +MartinSoukup; got it
  128. # [18:11] <Zakim> +Radhika_Roy
  129. # [18:11] <Zakim> + +49.322.110.8.aabb
  130. # [18:11] <paulc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012JulSep/0025.html
  131. # [18:11] <jaymunro> zakim, microsoft has me
  132. # [18:11] <Zakim> +jaymunro; got it
  133. # [18:11] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  134. # [18:12] * Joins: janina (janina@69.140.165.18)
  135. # [18:12] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  136. # [18:12] <krisk> zakim, Microsoft.a is krisk
  137. # [18:12] <Zakim> +krisk; got it
  138. # [18:12] * plh zakim, call plh-work
  139. # [18:12] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
  140. # [18:12] <Zakim> +Plh
  141. # [18:12] <Zakim> +??P9
  142. # [18:12] * Joins: Eliot (Eliot@131.107.192.45)
  143. # [18:12] <janina> zakim, ??P9 is Janina
  144. # [18:12] <Zakim> +Janina; got it
  145. # [18:12] <paulc> I think [Microsoft] has paulc, [Microsoft.a] has Jay and [Microsoft.aa] has Kris K
  146. # [18:13] <paulc> You have to wait for Zakim - a little slow at times
  147. # [18:13] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  148. # [18:13] <Eliot> zakim, microsoft.a has me
  149. # [18:13] <Zakim> +Eliot; got it
  150. # [18:13] <paulc> zakim, who is on the call?
  151. # [18:13] <Zakim> On the phone I see Sam, [Microsoft], MartinSoukup, Radhika_Roy, +49.322.110.8.aabb, krisk, [Microsoft.aa], Plh, Janina, [Microsoft.a]
  152. # [18:13] <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has Eliot
  153. # [18:13] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has jaymunro
  154. # [18:13] <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
  155. # [18:13] <Zakim> +paulc; got it
  156. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
  157. # [18:13] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  158. # [18:13] <Zakim> +Mike
  159. # [18:13] <Zakim> +Judy
  160. # [18:14] <plh> zakim, aabb is Barbara
  161. # [18:14] <Zakim> +Barbara; got it
  162. # [18:14] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  163. # [18:14] <hober> Zakim, Apple is me
  164. # [18:14] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  165. # [18:15] <paulc> scribenick: paulc
  166. # [18:15] <paulc> Topic: Actions due today
  167. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> agenda?
  168. # [18:15] * Zakim sees nothing on the agenda
  169. # [18:15] * darobin Zakim, passcode?
  170. # [18:15] * Zakim saw 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org) given for the conference code, darobin
  171. # [18:16] <paulc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012JulSep/0025.html
  172. # [18:16] <paulc> No actions
  173. # [18:16] <Zakim> +??P31
  174. # [18:16] <darobin> Zakim, ??P31 is me
  175. # [18:16] <Zakim> +darobin; got it
  176. # [18:16] <paulc> Topic: New issues this week
  177. # [18:16] * darobin muted
  178. # [18:16] <paulc> No new issues
  179. # [18:16] <paulc> Topic: Items closes last week
  180. # [18:16] <paulc> ISSUE-131?
  181. # [18:16] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-131
  182. # [18:16] <trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? -- closed
  183. # [18:16] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
  184. # [18:17] <paulc> Consensus to defer to future version of HTML
  185. # [18:18] <paulc> Split for ISSUE-74
  186. # [18:18] <paulc> The original bug will be marked for future processing
  187. # [18:18] <paulc> ISSUE-201
  188. # [18:18] <plh> bug related to 131 could be 7011 or 7404
  189. # [18:18] <paulc> ISSUE-201?
  190. # [18:18] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-201
  191. # [18:18] <trackbot> ISSUE-201 -- Provide canvas location and hit testing capability to fallback content -- open
  192. # [18:18] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
  193. # [18:18] * Joins: cabanier (cabanier@192.150.10.200)
  194. # [18:18] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/index.php?title=User:Eoconnor/ISSUE-201&oldid=13386
  195. # [18:18] <paulc> CfC closed on Aug 30
  196. # [18:19] * Joins: gitbot (gitbot@108.171.174.178)
  197. # [18:19] <gitbot> [html] darobin pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/20ab137355a21e4f6de2740ae997819f1b8f01ed
  198. # [18:19] <gitbot> [html/master] revert addition of gopher as per https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18067 - Robin Berjon
  199. # [18:19] * Parts: gitbot (gitbot@108.171.174.178)
  200. # [18:19] <paulc> We have consensus on the above proposal and waiting for Editors to apply it.
  201. # [18:19] <MikeSmith> q+ to comment on issue 206
  202. # [18:19] * Zakim sees MikeSmith on the speaker queue
  203. # [18:19] <paulc> ISSUE-206?
  204. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-206
  205. # [18:19] <trackbot> ISSUE-206 -- Should HTML5 have a meta generator exception to the alt requirement? -- open
  206. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/206
  207. # [18:19] <Zakim> +mjs
  208. # [18:19] <paulc> We have consensus on part of this ISSUE-206
  209. # [18:19] * Joins: gitbot (gitbot@50.57.128.197)
  210. # [18:19] <gitbot> [html] rubys pushed 3 new commits to feature/whatwg: https://github.com/w3c/html/compare/15888f44778f...63289e0e25cd
  211. # [18:19] <gitbot> [html/feature/whatwg] [e] (0) I don't really understand why this is an improvement, but in the interests of avoiding unnecessary forking... - ianh
  212. # [18:19] <gitbot> [html/feature/whatwg] [e] (0) Provide a hook for other specs. - ianh
  213. # [18:19] <gitbot> [html/feature/whatwg] [e] (0) Explain why gopher isn't on the list - ianh
  214. # [18:19] * Parts: gitbot (gitbot@50.57.128.197)
  215. # [18:19] <paulc> Mike Smith: I have been trying to get consensus here
  216. # [18:20] <paulc> Mike smith: I am not planning to work further on this until next month.
  217. # [18:20] <plh> q+
  218. # [18:20] * Zakim sees MikeSmith, plh on the speaker queue
  219. # [18:20] <paulc> Mike Smith: I wanted to sync up with others and cannot do that until next monght.
  220. # [18:20] <plh> ack Mike
  221. # [18:20] <Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to comment on issue 206
  222. # [18:20] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
  223. # [18:21] <paulc> Mike Smith: We have made positive progress to agree to drop metagenerator
  224. # [18:21] <paulc> Mike Smith: Coming up with an alternative is separate and harder to achieve.
  225. # [18:22] <rubys> ack plh
  226. # [18:22] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  227. # [18:22] <paulc> PLH: Mike - are you saying you still want to solve this in HTML5.0? Or should we defer the alternative to HTML.Next?
  228. # [18:22] <paulc> Mike Smith: I am okay with deferring it but Henry might not agree.
  229. # [18:22] * Joins: erikadoyle (erikadoyle@131.107.165.59)
  230. # [18:23] <Zakim> -darobin
  231. # [18:23] <paulc> Mike Smith: I was to be in sync with henry to ensure that validation services are in sync.
  232. # [18:23] * darobin pfffft
  233. # [18:23] * Joins: adrianba (adrianba@131.107.147.140)
  234. # [18:23] <paulc> Maciej: Are Ted's proposal acceptable to Mike?
  235. # [18:24] <paulc> Mike: What is acceptable to me depends on what is acceptable to Henry.
  236. # [18:24] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  237. # [18:24] * darobin Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
  238. # [18:24] * Zakim +darobin; got it
  239. # [18:24] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aaa]
  240. # [18:24] <paulc> Mike: Henry and Mike came up with a very long attribute name and others did not like it.
  241. # [18:24] <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft.aaa] is me
  242. # [18:24] <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
  243. # [18:24] <paulc> Mike: I am neutral about the attribute name but I want to wait until a talk to Henry.
  244. # [18:25] <MikeSmith> q?
  245. # [18:25] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  246. # [18:25] <paulc> Mike: Not much to add - let's move on
  247. # [18:25] <paulc> Topic: Items Closing this week
  248. # [18:25] <paulc> No items closing this week
  249. # [18:25] <paulc> Topic: Items closing next week
  250. # [18:25] <paulc> No items closing next week
  251. # [18:25] <adrianba> rrsagent, pointer
  252. # [18:25] <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-html-wg-irc#T16-15-40
  253. # [18:25] <paulc> Topic: New Calls this week
  254. # [18:26] <paulc> No new calls this week
  255. # [18:26] <paulc> Topic: New surveys this week
  256. # [18:26] <paulc> No new surveys
  257. # [18:26] <paulc> Topic: Decisions this week
  258. # [18:26] <paulc> No new decisions
  259. # [18:26] <paulc> Topic: Other business
  260. # [18:26] <paulc> ISSUE-30?
  261. # [18:26] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-30
  262. # [18:26] <trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- open
  263. # [18:26] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30
  264. # [18:27] <paulc> Sam: Lots of discussion on the preceding TF meeting
  265. # [18:27] <paulc> q+
  266. # [18:27] * Zakim sees paulc on the speaker queue
  267. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> q?
  268. # [18:27] * Zakim sees paulc on the speaker queue
  269. # [18:27] <paulc> Are there minutes available?
  270. # [18:27] * Joins: Judy (jbrewer@128.30.52.169)
  271. # [18:28] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-html-a11y-minutes.html
  272. # [18:28] <mjs> q+
  273. # [18:28] * Zakim sees paulc, mjs on the speaker queue
  274. # [18:28] <paulc> Mike: There was no agenda but the meeting did occur.
  275. # [18:29] <paulc> Mike: Richard help this discusion about ISSUE-204. Several others participated in that discussion. M Cooper scribed that discussion well.
  276. # [18:29] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@84.215.193.125)
  277. # [18:30] <paulc> Mike: Rich's points helped clarify some items for me on the call. Where the points of disagreement are and where the possible agreements might be.
  278. # [18:30] <paulc> ack paulc
  279. # [18:30] * Zakim sees mjs on the speaker queue
  280. # [18:30] <rubys> ack mjs
  281. # [18:30] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  282. # [18:30] <paulc> Maciej: Could someone give a brief summary of the discussion?
  283. # [18:30] <paulc> Sam: I have excerpts ready and can comment on them.
  284. # [18:31] <paulc> Maciej: Sounds like a good plan.
  285. # [18:31] <rubys> (11:24:43 AM) Stevef: i agree with mike that we should try to reach consensus without formal objection
  286. # [18:31] <rubys> +1
  287. # [18:31] <rubys> (11:35:28 AM) MichaelC: propose we say something like "in the future, user agents my have the ability to expose semantics of hidden descriptions" and encourage providing those semantics
  288. # [18:31] <rubys> Please post suggestioned rewording into the bug report(s) themselves. If we converge to a small number of stable proposals quickly, I would support reopening issue 204 and proceeding directly to survey on those proposals.
  289. # [18:32] <MikeSmith> q?
  290. # [18:32] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  291. # [18:32] <paulc> Sam: If we can get the proposals out maybe re-opening the issue and going to survey on a small number of proposals.
  292. # [18:32] <Zakim> -darobin
  293. # [18:32] <paulc> Janina: I don't think we are that stage.
  294. # [18:33] <paulc> Judy: Text is still not enough.
  295. # [18:33] <paulc> Janina: And Rich S is on vacation for a couple of week.s
  296. # [18:33] <Zakim> +??P4
  297. # [18:33] * darobin Zakim, ??P4 is me
  298. # [18:33] * Zakim +darobin; got it
  299. # [18:33] <plh> q+
  300. # [18:33] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
  301. # [18:33] <paulc> Sam: current text is not enough but maybe we can get a small number of stable proposals
  302. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> q?
  303. # [18:34] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
  304. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> ack plh
  305. # [18:34] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  306. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> plh means hober
  307. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> oh
  308. # [18:34] * hober he means jcraig and myself
  309. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> yeah
  310. # [18:34] <paulc> Philippe: Rich was reporting on the TF that he was talking to James. It would be useful for James and Rich to be in sync.
  311. # [18:35] <paulc> Ted: I agree and we continue to work the issue.
  312. # [18:35] <MikeSmith> q?
  313. # [18:35] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  314. # [18:35] <plh> s/and Rich/and Ted/
  315. # [18:35] <rubys> (11:38:58 AM) MichaelC: it would be OK for HTML to have an attribute to solve this problem
  316. # [18:35] <rubys> ... perhaps "LongdescZeroEdit" could be be updated to advocate a new "describedby" (sans "aria-") attribute?
  317. # [18:35] <paulc> Sam: someone proposed a specific HTML attribute
  318. # [18:36] <paulc> Janina: I suggested this in the TF meeting.
  319. # [18:37] <paulc> Janina: Second proposal PF would be willing to mint a ARIA 1.1 (post ARIA 1.0) attribute for this functionality.
  320. # [18:37] <paulc> q+
  321. # [18:37] * Zakim sees paulc on the speaker queue
  322. # [18:37] <rubys> ack next
  323. # [18:37] * Zakim sees paulc at the head of the speaker queue
  324. # [18:37] <Judy> q+
  325. # [18:37] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  326. # [18:37] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  327. # [18:37] <rubys> ack next
  328. # [18:37] * Zakim sees Judy at the head of the speaker queue
  329. # [18:37] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  330. # [18:38] * Quits: tmpsantos (tmpsantos@192.198.151.43) (Quit: Leaving)
  331. # [18:38] <MikeSmith> q?
  332. # [18:38] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  333. # [18:38] <paulc> Judy: On the TF meeting there was also discussion about the suggestion to split out ARIA from HTML5
  334. # [18:39] <hober> The PFWG charter: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/charter201006
  335. # [18:39] <adrianba> PF has Requirements for ARIA 2.0 (Note) in the charter
  336. # [18:39] <mjs> ARIA charter is here, for reference: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/charter201006
  337. # [18:40] <Judy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/charter201006#deliverables
  338. # [18:40] * Quits: ArtB (abarsto@192.100.120.42) (Quit: Leaving.)
  339. # [18:40] <paulc> The current charter says "Requirements for ARIA 2.0 (Note) "
  340. # [18:40] <Judy> q+
  341. # [18:40] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  342. # [18:40] <MikeSmith> q?
  343. # [18:40] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  344. # [18:41] <MikeSmith> ack Judy
  345. # [18:41] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  346. # [18:41] <paulc> janina: The current charter has us creating ARIA 1.0. The Requirements is being done.
  347. # [18:41] <mjs> q+
  348. # [18:41] * Zakim sees mjs on the speaker queue
  349. # [18:41] <plh> q+
  350. # [18:41] * Zakim sees mjs, plh on the speaker queue
  351. # [18:41] <MikeSmith> q?
  352. # [18:41] * Zakim sees mjs, plh on the speaker queue
  353. # [18:41] <paulc> Judy: There is discussiona about ARIA 1.1 ideas and some longer term features.
  354. # [18:42] <Zakim> -darobin
  355. # [18:42] <paulc> Judy: PF is working on a charter extension which might include some ARIA 1.1 work.
  356. # [18:42] * darobin ffs :(
  357. # [18:42] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  358. # [18:42] <MikeSmith> q?
  359. # [18:42] * Zakim sees mjs, plh on the speaker queue
  360. # [18:42] <rubys> ack next
  361. # [18:42] * Zakim sees mjs at the head of the speaker queue
  362. # [18:43] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
  363. # [18:43] * darobin Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
  364. # [18:43] * Zakim +darobin; got it
  365. # [18:43] <plh> q-
  366. # [18:43] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  367. # [18:43] <paulc> Maciej: Is there a draft available of the ARIA,Next requirements?
  368. # [18:43] <paulc> Janina: There are tracker items but no actual document.
  369. # [18:43] <rubys> (11:42:40 AM) MichaelC: plh: it's clear that people here don't want to remove ARIA from HTML
  370. # [18:43] <rubys> Agreed. The harder question is: can we get people who actively want to make ARIA in HTML to work to provide proposals that they can live with? Not providing a proposal and objecting to all is not a path forward. I'm pleased to see that people have resumed providing suggestions in the form of comments on the existing bugs.
  371. # [18:43] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
  372. # [18:43] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
  373. # [18:43] <Judy> q+
  374. # [18:43] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  375. # [18:44] <rubys> ack next
  376. # [18:44] * Zakim sees Judy at the head of the speaker queue
  377. # [18:44] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  378. # [18:44] <Judy> s/There is discussiona about ARIA 1.1 ideas and some longer term features./ARIA 2.0 requirements discussion has also identified potential nearer-term ARIA 1.1 features.//
  379. # [18:45] <paulc> Judy: In terms of where the discussion happens on ISSUE-204 soltuion, that is part of the Formal Objection.
  380. # [18:45] <paulc> Judy: The discussion needs to be happening in close cooperations with the WAI TF.
  381. # [18:46] <MikeSmith> q?
  382. # [18:46] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  383. # [18:46] <plh> q+
  384. # [18:46] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
  385. # [18:46] <paulc> Sam: Not a problem but the conclusions from any WAI TF discussions they should coome back to the HTML WG
  386. # [18:46] <paulc> Philippe: Could some one give a ptr to the WAI PF Tracker?
  387. # [18:46] <Judy> q+
  388. # [18:46] * Zakim sees plh, Judy on the speaker queue
  389. # [18:47] <paulc> Judy: It would be clearer in a few weeks since they are working on the Tracker items.
  390. # [18:47] <rubys> ack next
  391. # [18:47] * Zakim sees plh at the head of the speaker queue
  392. # [18:47] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  393. # [18:47] <paulc> Judy: PF is interested in HTML WG feedback.
  394. # [18:47] <paulc> janina: I don't have the URI available.
  395. # [18:48] <Judy> s/working on the Tracker items/working on separating out ARIA 1.1 and ARIA 2.0; and my understanding is that PFWG will be interested in feedback and input on the 1.1 list.
  396. # [18:48] <paulc> Janina: The idea of the ARIA 1.1 items is to handle items quickly and to handle items related to HTML discussion.
  397. # [18:48] <paulc> Judy: This might be available in 3-4 weeks.
  398. # [18:49] <paulc> Judy: I was on the queue to point the problems with pulling out ARIA from HTML5.
  399. # [18:49] <paulc> Judy: There is on list and off list discussion.
  400. # [18:49] <paulc> q+
  401. # [18:49] * Zakim sees Judy, paulc on the speaker queue
  402. # [18:50] <plh> ack Judy
  403. # [18:50] * Zakim sees paulc on the speaker queue
  404. # [18:50] <paulc> Judy: People are reacting to the proposal.
  405. # [18:50] <paulc> Sam: But now people are actually discussing the technical matters in ISSUE-204
  406. # [18:51] <paulc> Judy: The FO contains both technical and procedural objections.
  407. # [18:52] <paulc> Judy: Solving only the technical problems may not be enough.
  408. # [18:52] <paulc> Judy: The technical discussion need to happen on the ARIA TF.
  409. # [18:52] <mjs> I just want to note for the record in the minutes that Judy said it's not her or Janina's preferred outcome to make progress on resolving the Formal Objection
  410. # [18:52] <paulc> Janina: The procedural issues are not about ARIA. 149 without problems and 1 with problems.
  411. # [18:53] <Judy> s/Judy: This might be available in 3-4 weeks./Janina: This might be available in 3-4 weeks./
  412. # [18:53] <paulc> Janina: There has not been a proble overwhelmingly but there is one that is a problem.
  413. # [18:53] <paulc> Sam: Janina: The other 149 were done correctly?
  414. # [18:54] <paulc> Judy: I think Janina is saying that the outcome was okay.
  415. # [18:54] <paulc> Judy: What is the agenda item?
  416. # [18:54] <paulc> Sam: Issue-30 is the agenda item.
  417. # [18:55] <paulc> Sam: It is appropriate to discuss the Formal objection since it is blocking ISSUE-30.
  418. # [18:55] <rubys> ack next
  419. # [18:55] * Zakim sees paulc at the head of the speaker queue
  420. # [18:55] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  421. # [18:55] <MikeSmith> fww, I agree with Sam that that the discussion here has been useful
  422. # [18:55] <Judy> jb: it sounds are though you are actually discussing the FO itself, which is both procedural and technical, and which I don't think is appropriate to discuss here.
  423. # [18:56] <Judy> ...this is not to say that technical progress is not useful, but that this is not the full context of the FO.
  424. # [18:56] <paulc> Paul: the chairs put the split out ARIA forward since we are under tremendous pressure to unblock ISSUE-30
  425. # [18:57] <MikeSmith> q?
  426. # [18:57] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  427. # [18:57] <paulc> Paul: the proposal has got some people talking and working on at leat the technical part of ISSUE-204
  428. # [18:57] <paulc> Janina: Paul - thanks for your opinion.
  429. # [18:57] <paulc> Janina: The TF thinks this would only delay HTML5 further.
  430. # [18:58] <paulc> Paul: Why would you think it will delay?
  431. # [18:58] <Judy> q+
  432. # [18:58] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  433. # [18:58] <paulc> Janina: PF would make an objection about this.
  434. # [18:58] <Zakim> -darobin
  435. # [18:58] <rubys> ack next
  436. # [18:58] * Zakim sees Judy at the head of the speaker queue
  437. # [18:58] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  438. # [18:59] <Zakim> +??P4
  439. # [18:59] <rubys> q+
  440. # [18:59] * Zakim sees rubys on the speaker queue
  441. # [18:59] * darobin Zakim, ??P4 is me
  442. # [18:59] * Zakim +darobin; got it
  443. # [18:59] <paulc> Judy: If the Chairs intent to make A11Y optional in HTML5 ...
  444. # [18:59] <paulc> Judy: If the Charis want to unravel all the work already done and cause less A11Y then you would been sendint that message
  445. # [18:59] <Zakim> -darobin
  446. # [18:59] * darobin cries
  447. # [19:00] <paulc> Judy: Under the pressure the Chairs feel losing the work done (for both groups) would be a loss
  448. # [19:00] <Zakim> +??P4
  449. # [19:00] * darobin Zakim, ??P4 is me
  450. # [19:00] * Zakim +darobin; got it
  451. # [19:00] <Zakim> -darobin
  452. # [19:00] <paulc> Sam: It is not our choice to make A11y optional but we are trying to figure out to make our schedule pressure
  453. # [19:00] <paulc> Sam: Anyone else?
  454. # [19:01] <paulc> No one.
  455. # [19:01] * darobin ok, I think there's a serious problem with my connection, sorry — giving up for now
  456. # [19:01] <paulc> New editor: Robin Berjon
  457. # [19:02] <paulc> Judy: There needs to additional followup on the list about the Chairs proposal to split out ARIA.
  458. # [19:02] <Zakim> +??P4
  459. # [19:02] * darobin Zakim, ??P4 is me
  460. # [19:02] * Zakim +darobin; got it
  461. # [19:03] <rubys> I note that Judy said that she will follow up on list
  462. # [19:03] <paulc> Sam: Welcome to Robin to role as new HTML5 editor.
  463. # [19:04] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/QA/2012/09/the_flowing_standard.html
  464. # [19:04] <paulc> Sam: Robin has posted a blog entry on the QA blog.
  465. # [19:04] <paulc> Sam: this has got some attention.
  466. # [19:04] <paulc> ;<)
  467. # [19:05] <paulc> any other business?
  468. # [19:05] <paulc> None
  469. # [19:05] <paulc> Topic: Chair and scribe for next meeting
  470. # [19:05] <Judy> s/additional followup on the list about the Chairs proposal to split out ARIA/additional followup on the list clarifying problems with splitting out ARIA./
  471. # [19:05] <paulc> Kris: Do you want a testing TF report?
  472. # [19:05] * darobin if I scribe I can't be closing bugs at the same time, as I've done in this meeting :)
  473. # [19:06] <paulc> Sam: We will do the TF reports next week.
  474. # [19:06] <Judy> s/On the TF meeting there was also discussion about the suggestion to split out ARIA from HTML5/On the TF meeting there was also discussion about the suggestion to split out ARIA from HTML5, and clear opposition to that./
  475. # [19:06] * hober that was me
  476. # [19:06] <paulc> Scribe for next week: Ted volunteered for next week.
  477. # [19:07] <Zakim> -MartinSoukup
  478. # [19:07] <Zakim> -Mike
  479. # [19:07] <paulc> Topic: Adjournement
  480. # [19:07] * Quits: jaymunro (jaymunro@131.107.174.192) (Quit: jaymunro)
  481. # [19:07] <Zakim> -Plh
  482. # [19:07] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  483. # [19:07] <Zakim> -hober
  484. # [19:07] <Zakim> -krisk
  485. # [19:07] <Zakim> -Janina
  486. # [19:07] <Zakim> -adrianba
  487. # [19:07] * Parts: janina (janina@69.140.165.18)
  488. # [19:07] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aa]
  489. # [19:07] <Zakim> -mjs
  490. # [19:07] <paulc> We adjourned at :56 meetings after the hour.
  491. # [19:07] <Zakim> -darobin
  492. # [19:07] <Zakim> -Judy
  493. # [19:07] <Zakim> -Barbara
  494. # [19:07] <Zakim> -Sam
  495. # [19:07] <paulc> rssagent, generate mintues
  496. # [19:07] <paulc> rrsagent, generate minutes
  497. # [19:07] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-html-wg-minutes.html paulc
  498. # [19:08] * Quits: Eliot (Eliot@131.107.192.45) (Quit: I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!)
  499. # [19:09] * plh zakim, who is on the phone?
  500. # [19:09] * Zakim sees on the phone: [Microsoft], Radhika_Roy
  501. # [19:09] * Zakim [Microsoft] has paulc
  502. # [19:09] <plh> zakim, drop Microsoft
  503. # [19:09] <Zakim> [Microsoft] is being disconnected
  504. # [19:09] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  505. # [19:09] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.32.11)
  506. # [19:10] <plh> zakim, drop Roy
  507. # [19:10] <Zakim> sorry, plh, I do not see a party named 'Roy'
  508. # [19:10] <plh> zakim, drop Radhika_Roy
  509. # [19:10] <Zakim> Radhika_Roy is being disconnected
  510. # [19:10] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  511. # [19:10] <Zakim> Attendees were Sam, paulc, +1.613.287.aaaa, MartinSoukup, Radhika_Roy, +49.322.110.8.aabb, jaymunro, [Microsoft], krisk, Plh, Janina, Eliot, Mike, Judy, Barbara, hober, darobin,
  512. # [19:10] <Zakim> ... mjs, adrianba
  513. # [19:10] * plh rrsagent, generate minutes
  514. # [19:10] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-html-wg-minutes.html plh
  515. # [19:10] * Quits: paulc (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  516. # [19:10] * Quits: MFoladare (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  517. # [19:13] * Quits: erikadoyle (erikadoyle@131.107.165.59) (Quit: erikadoyle)
  518. # [19:15] <darobin> well, that's 12 bugs down for me today — heading home :)
  519. # [19:23] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.32.11) (Quit: dsinger)
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  558. # [23:46] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@173.5.50.142)
  559. # [23:54] * Joins: jarek (jarek@83.27.236.51)
  560. # Session Close: Fri Sep 07 00:00:01 2012

The end :)