/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2012-09-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Sep 20 10:47:53 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [10:47] * Now talking in #html-wg
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  29. # [17:57] * ArtB wonders if the HTMLWG calls are actually going to start having some technical discussions ...
  30. # [18:02] * Joins: mjs (mjs@24.6.209.189)
  31. # [18:02] * Joins: jaymunro (jaymunro@131.107.174.192)
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  35. # [18:10] * Joins: rubys (rubys@98.27.59.167)
  36. # [18:10] <paulc> zakim, what is the code?
  37. # [18:10] <paulc> Sam: I guess maybe Zakim is not here yet?
  38. # [18:11] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  39. # [18:11] <rubys> rrsagent, start meeting
  40. # [18:11] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', rubys. Try /msg RRSAgent help
  41. # [18:11] <rubys> trackbot, start meeting
  42. # [18:11] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
  43. # [18:11] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  44. # [18:11] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  45. # [18:11] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be html_wg
  46. # [18:11] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  47. # [18:11] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  48. # [18:11] <trackbot> Date: 20 September 2012
  49. # [18:11] * Joins: ddorwin (ddorwin@74.125.59.73)
  50. # [18:11] * Joins: Eliot (Eliot@131.107.165.38)
  51. # [18:11] * Joins: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.169)
  52. # [18:12] <Zakim> +ddorwin
  53. # [18:12] * MichaelC zakim, call cooper-mobile
  54. # [18:12] * Zakim ok, MichaelC; the call is being made
  55. # [18:12] * Joins: JF (chatzilla@67.188.80.147)
  56. # [18:12] <Zakim> +Cooper
  57. # [18:12] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  58. # [18:12] * Joins: Judy (jbrewer@128.30.52.169)
  59. # [18:12] <Zakim> +Sam
  60. # [18:12] <hober> Zakim, Apple is me
  61. # [18:12] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  62. # [18:12] <paulc> zakim, who is on the phone?
  63. # [18:12] <Zakim> On the phone I see MartinSoukup, [Microsoft], Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Cooper, hober, Sam
  64. # [18:12] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  65. # [18:12] * hober runs to get more coffee
  66. # [18:12] <Eliot> zakim, microsofta has me
  67. # [18:12] <Zakim> +Eliot; got it
  68. # [18:12] * plh zakim, call plh-work
  69. # [18:12] * MichaelC on phone listening but not in front of computer
  70. # [18:12] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
  71. # [18:12] <Zakim> +Plh
  72. # [18:12] <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
  73. # [18:12] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  74. # [18:12] <Zakim> +paulc; got it
  75. # [18:13] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  76. # [18:13] <jaymunro> zakim, [Microsoft.aaa] has me
  77. # [18:13] <Zakim> sorry, jaymunro, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft.aaa]'
  78. # [18:13] <ArtB> zakim, passcode?
  79. # [18:13] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ArtB
  80. # [18:13] <Zakim> +John_Foliot
  81. # [18:13] <jaymunro> zakim, Microsoft.aaa has me
  82. # [18:13] <Zakim> sorry, jaymunro, I do not recognize a party named 'Microsoft.aaa'
  83. # [18:13] <plh> scribe: plh
  84. # [18:13] <jaymunro> zakim, Microsoft has me
  85. # [18:13] <Zakim> +jaymunro; got it
  86. # [18:13] <paulc> zakim, who is on the phone?
  87. # [18:14] <Zakim> On the phone I see MartinSoukup, [Microsoft], Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Cooper, hober, Sam, [Microsoft.a], Plh, [Microsoft.aa], Cynthia_Shelly, John_Foliot
  88. # [18:14] * Joins: adrianba (adrianba@71.231.136.24)
  89. # [18:14] <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has Eliot
  90. # [18:14] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has jaymunro
  91. # [18:14] <Zakim> +Art_Barstow
  92. # [18:14] * Joins: janina (janina@69.140.165.18)
  93. # [18:14] * ArtB good idea
  94. # [18:14] <Zakim> +Judy
  95. # [18:14] <plh> Paul: let's switch to other business
  96. # [18:14] <Zakim> +??P34
  97. # [18:15] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.32.11)
  98. # [18:15] <janina> zakim, ??P44 is Janina
  99. # [18:15] <Zakim> I already had ??P44 as Dom, janina
  100. # [18:15] <Zakim> -Cooper
  101. # [18:15] <plh> Topic: Adaptive Image Element Proposal
  102. # [18:15] * MichaelC zakim, call cooper-mobile
  103. # [18:15] * Zakim ok, MichaelC; the call is being made
  104. # [18:15] <Zakim> +Cooper
  105. # [18:15] <plh> Paul: I took an action item to create a bugzilla component for it
  106. # [18:16] <plh> ACTION: Paul to create a bugzilla component for the Adaptive Image Element Proposal
  107. # [18:16] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  108. # [18:16] * RRSAgent records action 1
  109. # [18:16] <trackbot> Created ACTION-221 - Create a bugzilla component for the Adaptive Image Element Proposal [on Paul Cotton - due 2012-09-27].
  110. # [18:16] <Zakim> +mjs
  111. # [18:16] <plh> Topic: Evolving AppCache discussions
  112. # [18:17] <plh> Paul: ongoing thread about mailing lists
  113. # [18:17] <plh> ... we have people on both sides
  114. # [18:17] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aaa]
  115. # [18:17] <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft.aaa] is me
  116. # [18:17] <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
  117. # [18:17] <plh> ... the technical discussion aren't proceeding in the meantime
  118. # [18:18] <plh> Maciej: I would suggest a preference poll to figure this out
  119. # [18:18] <plh> ... this is not substantive
  120. # [18:18] <plh> [no objection to the idea]
  121. # [18:18] <plh> ACTION: Maciej to create a preference poll for the appcache mailing list
  122. # [18:18] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  123. # [18:18] <trackbot> Created ACTION-222 - Create a preference poll for the appcache mailing list [on Maciej Stachowiak - due 2012-09-27].
  124. # [18:18] * RRSAgent records action 2
  125. # [18:19] * Quits: nonge_ (nonge@80.130.153.24) (Quit: Verlassend)
  126. # [18:19] <plh> Topic: Proposed rewording of ISSUE-204 text
  127. # [18:19] <plh> Paul: can Ted or someone else give a status?
  128. # [18:20] <plh> Ted: additional discussion in bugzilla. last spec edit was to put the new wording as of Thursday last week.
  129. # [18:20] <plh> ... I don't think we've gone to a conclusion on how to tweak the wording further
  130. # [18:20] <plh> Paul: do we have outstanding bugs?
  131. # [18:20] <plh> ... are we moving towards consensus?
  132. # [18:21] <plh> Ted: when I made the edit on Thursday I called for people to file bugs on that text
  133. # [18:21] <janina> q+
  134. # [18:21] * Zakim sees janina on the speaker queue
  135. # [18:21] <plh> ... didn't see any coming so far
  136. # [18:21] <plh> ack janina
  137. # [18:21] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  138. # [18:21] <plh> Janina: apologizes if I didn't catch you wanted additional bugs for that
  139. # [18:22] <plh> ... I'm happy to do that and will do today
  140. # [18:22] <plh> ... I think it's one bug
  141. # [18:22] <plh> ... we have two use cases and we need the language to support them
  142. # [18:22] <plh> Paul: it might be useful to follow up in email as well
  143. # [18:23] <plh> ... is the bugzilla good enough?
  144. # [18:23] <plh> s/bugzilla/bugzilla message/
  145. # [18:23] <plh> Ted: getting as many people involved sounds good to me
  146. # [18:24] <plh> ... so bugs and email is fine
  147. # [18:24] <plh> Topic: Information on TPAC F2F meeting
  148. # [18:24] <plh> Paul: sent a reminder
  149. # [18:24] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@83.38.42.46) (Ping timeout)
  150. # [18:24] <plh> ... we received a request for a coordination meeting
  151. # [18:24] <plh> ... from MLW-LT
  152. # [18:25] <plh> ... we'll start building some sort of agenda
  153. # [18:25] <paulc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Sep/0255.html
  154. # [18:25] * Joins: erikadoyle (erikadoyle@131.107.192.63)
  155. # [18:25] <plh> ... I'll remind people that there is a daily meeting fee, with exceptions for the TPAC sponsors
  156. # [18:26] <plh> ... fee increase after a day in October. It triples!
  157. # [18:26] * Joins: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58)
  158. # [18:27] <plh> --> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2012 Schedule
  159. # [18:27] <plh> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2012/SessionIdeas
  160. # [18:27] <plh> put your proposals for TP breakout sessions there
  161. # [18:28] <plh> Topic: ISSUE-30 change proposal status
  162. # [18:28] <plh> Paul: giving the proposed plan, wasn't sure what to do.
  163. # [18:29] <plh> Janina: the consensus poll has continued to draw a traffic on the list
  164. # [18:29] <Judy> q+
  165. # [18:29] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  166. # [18:29] <plh> ... the ongoing discussion isn't raising new information
  167. # [18:29] <plh> ... it's a fruitful discussion though
  168. # [18:29] <plh> ... not sure if it's important conversation
  169. # [18:29] <plh> ... one of the key contributors is upset by the proposed plan
  170. # [18:30] <Judy> q-
  171. # [18:30] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  172. # [18:30] <plh> ... I support the new approach mindful of the fact that it delays the resolution further
  173. # [18:30] <Judy> q+
  174. # [18:30] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  175. # [18:30] <plh> Paul: maybe the best thing to do is to skip over this for the moment
  176. # [18:30] <plh> ... and talk about the proposed plan
  177. # [18:31] <plh> Judy: the consensus poll was done on schedule and the results were summarized
  178. # [18:31] <plh> ... it supported the earlier consensus
  179. # [18:31] <plh> ack Judy
  180. # [18:31] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  181. # [18:31] <plh> ... there is a discussion going on with some good give and take
  182. # [18:31] <janina> Text Subteam minutes at:
  183. # [18:32] <plh> ... given the proposed plan, it makes sense to figure out how the discussion would be moving from here
  184. # [18:32] <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Sep/0282.html
  185. # [18:32] * Quits: tinkster (tai@86.164.42.28) (Ping timeout)
  186. # [18:32] <plh> ... but the action was complete and reported
  187. # [18:33] <plh> Topic: Getting HTML5 to Recommendation in 2014
  188. # [18:33] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Sep/0243.html
  189. # [18:33] <plh> --> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Sep/0243.html proposed plan
  190. # [18:33] <rubys> http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/html5-2014-plan.html
  191. # [18:34] * plh zakim, who is on the phone?
  192. # [18:34] * Zakim sees on the phone: MartinSoukup, [Microsoft], Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Cooper, hober, Sam, [Microsoft.a], Plh, [Microsoft.aa], Cynthia_Shelly, John_Foliot, Art_Barstow, Judy, ??P34,
  193. # [18:34] * Zakim ... mjs, adrianba
  194. # [18:34] * Zakim [Microsoft.a] has Eliot
  195. # [18:34] * Zakim [Microsoft] has jaymunro
  196. # [18:34] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/QA/2012/09/getting_html5_to_recommendatio.html
  197. # [18:34] <plh> Sam: there is a plan, a blog entry...
  198. # [18:34] <plh> ... the plan emphasizes modularity. gives 2014 for 5.0 and 2016 for 5.1
  199. # [18:35] <plh> ... looking for a call for consensus when the major comments die down
  200. # [18:35] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Sep/0269.html
  201. # [18:35] <plh> ... there is indeed at least on bug in the plan since pubdate is not in the spec
  202. # [18:35] <plh> ... we'll be updating the plan based on feedback
  203. # [18:36] <ArtB> s/at least on bug/at least one bug/
  204. # [18:36] <plh> Sam: for 185, the proposed plan says we retain pubdate but the spec doesn't have it. it's a bug in the plan.
  205. # [18:36] <plh> q?
  206. # [18:36] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  207. # [18:37] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Sep/0284.html
  208. # [18:37] <plh> Sam: we got input from Steve that it would prefer that the Techniques for providing useful text alternatives remains in the HTML WG for now
  209. # [18:38] <plh> .. we'll respect the wish from the editor
  210. # [18:38] <plh> Judy: for now
  211. # [18:38] <plh> Janina: the language in section 4.8 is still a concern for Steve
  212. # [18:38] <Judy> q+
  213. # [18:38] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  214. # [18:38] <plh> ... 4.8 is a problem for a11y
  215. # [18:39] <plh> Paul: we talked about this and didn't put anything in the plan since it talks about open issues
  216. # [18:39] <plh> ... but we understand it's an important concern
  217. # [18:39] <plh> ... maybe it would be better if we can identify how we plan to process this concern
  218. # [18:39] <plh> Janina: indeed, we're still trying to figure out the best process path
  219. # [18:39] <paulc> ack judy
  220. # [18:39] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  221. # [18:40] <plh> s/for now/keeping in HTML WG for now/
  222. # [18:40] <plh> Judy: [corrected minutes]
  223. # [18:40] <plh> ... for issue 30, the summary of the feedback on the decision got truncated in the minutes of the html a11y tf
  224. # [18:40] <plh> ... will need to recreate that
  225. # [18:41] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Sep/0283.html
  226. # [18:41] <plh> Sam: concern regarding validation. we do believe that Mike will be responsive to adding stuff in the w3c validator
  227. # [18:42] <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Sep/0282.html
  228. # [18:42] <plh> ... if there is a problem with that, we should discuss further
  229. # [18:42] <plh> ... Steve created a new spec on how to resolve the hgroup issue
  230. # [18:42] <Judy> s/Judy: for now/Judy: the comment was that the location was a concern for now/
  231. # [18:42] <plh> ... he would prefer we make change the main spec to make it easier for someone to create an extension spec for hgroup
  232. # [18:43] <plh> Paul: the first one requires a correction. second requires a description about section 4.8 and alt techniques. third one needs more discussion. the validator may cause a plan update.
  233. # [18:44] <plh> Sam: it sounds that people are ok to leave the alt techniques in the html wg for now
  234. # [18:44] <plh> Paul: we still need to deal with the underlying concern
  235. # [18:44] <plh> sam: agreed
  236. # [18:44] <plh> q?
  237. # [18:44] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  238. # [18:44] <plh> Paul: any discussion in PF?
  239. # [18:45] <plh> Janina: an topic is the importance of messaging around this and the fact that extensions are first class citizen in the environment
  240. # [18:45] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@195.159.164.228)
  241. # [18:45] <rubys> tf minutes: http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-html-a11y-minutes.html
  242. # [18:46] <plh> Paul: one question regarding the schedule for the CR exit criteria and the CfC for the plan itself
  243. # [18:46] <plh> ... we don't have a firm plan
  244. # [18:46] <plh> ... and people are wondering how long they have to absorbe the plan and give feedback
  245. # [18:47] <plh> Maciej: imho, we could have a CfC on the CR exit criteria next week.
  246. # [18:47] <plh> ... for the plan itself, we need to let it go further for now
  247. # [18:48] <Judy> q+
  248. # [18:48] * Zakim sees Judy on the speaker queue
  249. # [18:48] <paulc> ack judy
  250. # [18:48] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  251. # [18:48] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  252. # [18:48] <plh> Paul: some people in the html a11y didn't pay attention to the CR exit criteria
  253. # [18:48] <rubys> exit criteria: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Sep/0215.html
  254. # [18:48] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  255. # [18:49] <plh> Judy: the update on the CR exit criteria didn't go to the tf
  256. # [18:49] <plh> ... concern about allowing the vertical stacks
  257. # [18:49] <JF> +1 to Judy's comment
  258. # [18:49] <mjs> q+
  259. # [18:49] * Zakim sees mjs on the speaker queue
  260. # [18:49] <plh> ... I do believe that Maciej's update did take this into account
  261. # [18:50] <plh> q?
  262. # [18:50] * Zakim sees mjs on the speaker queue
  263. # [18:50] <paulc> ack mjs
  264. # [18:50] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  265. # [18:50] <plh> Paul: if there is feedback friom the a11y tf, we might delay the cfc for the cr exit criteria
  266. # [18:51] <plh> Maciej: indeed, if we get new feedback, we'll wait
  267. # [18:51] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@85.228.149.209)
  268. # [18:52] * ArtB preliminary scan/feedback -> looks good so far ;-)
  269. # [18:53] <adrianba> +1
  270. # [18:53] <plh> Maciej: I like that the plan results in shipping soon
  271. # [18:53] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  272. # [18:53] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  273. # [18:54] <plh> Topic: Chair and Scribe for next meeting
  274. # [18:54] <plh> Paul: Maciej is on deck to chair
  275. # [18:54] <plh> ... anyone interested in scribing?
  276. # [18:54] <plh> ... I'm at risk for next week
  277. # [18:54] <plh> [adjourned]
  278. # [18:54] <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
  279. # [18:55] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  280. # [18:55] <Zakim> -John_Foliot
  281. # [18:55] <Zakim> -Plh
  282. # [18:55] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  283. # [18:55] <Zakim> -adrianba
  284. # [18:55] * Quits: jaymunro (jaymunro@131.107.174.192) (Quit: jaymunro)
  285. # [18:55] <Zakim> -Cooper
  286. # [18:55] * Quits: paulc (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  287. # [18:55] <Zakim> -Judy
  288. # [18:55] <Zakim> -??P34
  289. # [18:55] <Zakim> -hober
  290. # [18:55] <Zakim> -Sam
  291. # [18:55] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aa]
  292. # [18:55] <Zakim> -mjs
  293. # [18:55] <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
  294. # [18:55] * plh zakim, who is on the phone?
  295. # [18:55] * Zakim sees on the phone: MartinSoukup, [Microsoft], ddorwin
  296. # [18:55] * Zakim [Microsoft] has jaymunro
  297. # [18:55] * Quits: MFoladare (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  298. # [18:55] <plh> zakim, drop ddorwin
  299. # [18:55] <Zakim> ddorwin is being disconnected
  300. # [18:55] <Zakim> -ddorwin
  301. # [18:55] <plh> zakim, drop Martin
  302. # [18:55] <Zakim> MartinSoukup is being disconnected
  303. # [18:55] <Zakim> -MartinSoukup
  304. # [18:55] <plh> zakim, drop Microsoft
  305. # [18:55] <Zakim> [Microsoft] is being disconnected
  306. # [18:55] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  307. # [18:55] <Zakim> Attendees were MartinSoukup, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Cooper, Sam, hober, Eliot, Plh, paulc, Cynthia_Shelly, John_Foliot, jaymunro, Art_Barstow, Judy, mjs, [Microsoft], adrianba
  308. # [18:55] * plh rrsagent, generate minutes
  309. # [18:55] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-html-wg-minutes.html plh
  310. # [18:56] * Quits: ddorwin (ddorwin@74.125.59.73) (Quit: Leaving)
  311. # [19:00] * Quits: mjs (mjs@24.6.209.189) (Quit: mjs)
  312. # [19:00] * Joins: gitbot (gitbot@50.57.128.197)
  313. # [19:00] <gitbot> [html] travisleithead pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/6c55b5b94ab78e600080ac3957a7441cfc4ecda2
  314. # [19:00] <gitbot> [html/master] [HTML5 Bug 11204] Update DOM Parsing spec ref to FPWD - Travis Leithead
  315. # [19:00] * Parts: gitbot (gitbot@50.57.128.197)
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  318. # [19:12] <gitbot> [html] travisleithead pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/7ab1ac615fcda5a342b52d7d866c5c5c41ee9952
  319. # [19:12] <gitbot> [html/master] Revert "[HTML5 Bug 18224] Update to the quirksmode styles" - Travis Leithead
  320. # [19:12] * Parts: gitbot (gitbot@108.171.174.178)
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  325. # [19:33] * abarsto is now known as ArtB
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  340. # [20:19] * abarsto is now known as ArtB
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  352. # [21:12] * Parts: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.169)
  353. # [21:19] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  354. # [21:19] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
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  361. # [22:08] * hiro_away is now known as hiro
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  364. # [22:20] * hiro is now known as hiro_away
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  372. # Session Close: Fri Sep 21 00:00:01 2012

The end :)