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- # Session Start: Wed Mar 26 00:00:00 2014
- # Session Ident: #html-wg
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- # [01:24] -gitbot:#html-wg- [syntax] sideshowbarker pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/validator/syntax/commit/bb31139ee133d4da177b4a8b45dd6ebe243bac33
- # [01:24] -gitbot:#html-wg- syntax/master bb31139 Michael[tm] Smith: Re-enable "shortcut" keyword for rel.
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- # [12:51] <MikeSmith> darobin: btw the other day if there are cases in which the validator accepts a list of tokens for @role
- # [12:51] <MikeSmith> the answer is that it always does
- # [12:52] <MikeSmith> if just ignores any of the invalid values and takes the first valid one it finds
- # [12:52] <MikeSmith> or something like that
- # [12:52] <MikeSmith> I forgot exactly but I can look it up and check if you want
- # [13:00] <darobin> MikeSmith: when I checked I couldn't get it to not complain
- # [13:01] <darobin> basically if there's a list of tokens and it understands the first one it complains that the following ones aren't being used
- # [13:01] <darobin> if it doesn't understand the first one it complains that you're using a value that doesn't exist
- # [13:01] <darobin> the context of the question was from the ebook people who are thinking about adding roles that make sense for books
- # [13:02] <darobin> it so happens that a lot of those actually make sense for accessibility, or in general could enhance the AT experience
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- # [13:02] <darobin> so their idea of using @role didn't on the face of it seem bad to me
- # [13:02] <darobin> but they would also like their stuff to be considered happy by the validator
- # [13:04] <MikeSmith> darobin: I don't think they should use role
- # [13:05] <MikeSmith> at this point role is effectively just for aria
- # [13:05] <MikeSmith> and it's already been made massively complicated by aria
- # [13:06] <MikeSmith> as far as document conformance at least
- # [13:06] <darobin> personally I am equally happy with book-type, but I think your opinions would be valuable to have in the loop
- # [13:07] <MikeSmith> if anybody else starts to use role for anything I will just give up and remove all the aria role checking from the validator
- # [13:08] <darobin> the use cases they have are good and valid though, and all they're asking for is a solution they can run with
- # [13:09] <darobin> if you don't like the role option could you please make up an email with the reasons?
- # [13:10] <darobin> (ideally with more than "because it's complicated" :)
- # [13:10] <darobin> my concern is that if we don't help them they'll do what O'Reilly did and just go ahead with data-*
- # [13:10] <MikeSmith> yeah but they don't role. they may think it's a good idea to reuse it but I guarantee it's not
- # [13:11] <darobin> as in https://github.com/oreillymedia/HTMLBook
- # [13:11] <MikeSmith> yeah I'll send mail
- # [13:11] <darobin> that's fine so long as it can be explaine
- # [13:11] <darobin> d
- # [13:11] <darobin> I'm happy with book-type or whatever
- # [13:11] <darobin> of course it won't validate out of the box, but it can become an applicable specification
- # [13:12] <darobin> MikeSmith: I'm not familiar with the validator's architecture, is it possible to sort of add plugins to it?
- # [13:12] <MikeSmith> yeah
- # [13:12] <darobin> so you don't have to maintain a fork if you just want to add validation for something
- # [13:13] <MikeSmith> Yup
- # [13:13] <darobin> sweet
- # [13:13] <darobin> they keep insisting that they'd like their stuff to validate with the validator, but I think that at least in the early days before it's proven tech it makes sense to rely on a separate validator
- # [13:14] <darobin> and if one can just toss in support for book-type or whatever, then world of win
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- # [13:24] <MikeSmith> I thought they already had their own validator. though from what I've seen of it's badly designed. e.g., last I checked it was using a old fork of the validator nu schema, but without the datatype library, and so all the datatype checking replaced by regexps
- # [13:25] <MikeSmith> also they never seemed to understand that they could implement a checker without requiring doc instances to be XML
- # [13:26] <MikeSmith> that was one of their reasons for requiring epub to be xml-only
- # [13:27] <MikeSmith> they claimed it would otherwise be impractical to implement a validator for it
- # [13:27] <darobin> MikeSmith: the epub checker is horrible
- # [13:28] <darobin> it's bad enough that glazou reimplemented his own checker as the first thing when he built epub support into Bluegriffon
- # [13:29] <darobin> I think that's one of the motivations behind them wanting to create a vocabulary that works with the existing infrastructure as much as possible
- # [13:29] <darobin> (let alone the fact that that's a good idea no matter what)
- # [13:29] <darobin> in other words, the current tendency should be encouraged regardless of potential past mistakes :)
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- # [13:45] <MikeSmith> yeah agreed
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The end :)