/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2014-03-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Mar 27 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  51. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> darobin: btw I went a looked back at the code I wrote for handling the role attribute
  52. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> see https://github.com/validator/util/commit/3e43844e0b393ede73d4673795e283d1037b8ba6#diff-d1b5381649f22194389b47f8c1e7dfd7R165
  53. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> and https://github.com/validator/util/commit/3e43844e0b393ede73d4673795e283d1037b8ba6#diff-d1b5381649f22194389b47f8c1e7dfd7R181
  54. # [13:21] * darobin JavaReader loading up [== ]
  55. # [13:21] <MikeSmith> what it does is, it goes through the tokens in the role attribute value and if it finds a role that's actually defined in the ARIA spec, it sets the entire attribute value to tha
  56. # [13:21] <MikeSmith> *that
  57. # [13:21] <MikeSmith> and drops the rest of the tokens
  58. # [13:22] <darobin> interesting
  59. # [13:22] <MikeSmith> I guess I should mention, this is a SAX filter that responds to the parser events before the document is exposed to RelaxNG validation
  60. # [13:22] <darobin> that doesn't look like the messages I was getting
  61. # [13:22] <MikeSmith> this is what we also do for data-*
  62. # [13:22] <darobin> right
  63. # [13:22] <darobin> that's what I thought
  64. # [13:23] <darobin> oh, wait, but yes
  65. # [13:23] <MikeSmith> well if it doesn't find a defined aria role, then it just passes on the value as-is
  66. # [13:23] <darobin> the second one does more
  67. # [13:23] <MikeSmith> without tokeninizing it
  68. # [13:23] <darobin> it keeps track of unrecognised and superfluous tokens
  69. # [13:23] <darobin> which is exactly the behaviour I was seeing
  70. # [13:23] <MikeSmith> ok
  71. # [13:24] <MikeSmith> so the problem here is that if epub introduces other valid role values, then this code can't handle those
  72. # [13:24] <darobin> yes indeed
  73. # [13:24] <MikeSmith> we can't really do both
  74. # [13:25] <darobin> makes sense
  75. # [13:25] <MikeSmith> I mean we can't have role="e-pub-thing menu" or whatever
  76. # [13:25] <darobin> at least, not without adding all the book roles
  77. # [13:25] <MikeSmith> yeah
  78. # [13:25] <darobin> but that's probably not a good idea
  79. # [13:25] <darobin> I mean, they only have like 200 :)
  80. # [13:25] <darobin> (proposed ones, thankfully)
  81. # [13:26] <MikeSmith> yeah because we can only use one aria role
  82. # [13:26] <MikeSmith> oh geez
  83. # [13:26] <darobin> well books are indeed complicated
  84. # [13:26] <darobin> they initially used XML for a reason: it maps well to their needs
  85. # [13:26] <darobin> and I think that their use case of trying to capture more semantics in HTML is interesting
  86. # [13:26] <MikeSmith> yeah I think at this point we should try to get people to understand that @role is now @aria-role in practice
  87. # [13:26] <darobin> (and none of the RDFa, MD, etc. stuff matches that well)
  88. # [13:27] <MikeSmith> ok
  89. # [13:27] <darobin> they don't want to extract metadata from HTML like those things do, they want to actually decorate the tre
  90. # [13:27] <darobin> tree
  91. # [13:27] <MikeSmith> that makes some sense I guess
  92. # [13:28] <darobin> well yeah
  93. # [13:28] <darobin> extracting a list of chapters might be useful, but not as useful as actually having chapters in the document that you can read
  94. # [13:28] <MikeSmith> yeah, when you put it that way
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  106. # [16:54] <paulc> trackbot, start meeting
  107. # [16:54] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
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  109. # [16:54] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-html-wg-irc
  110. # [16:54] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  111. # [16:54] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  112. # [16:54] * Joins: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak)
  113. # [16:55] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be html_wg
  114. # [16:55] <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
  115. # [16:55] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  116. # [16:55] <trackbot> Date: 27 March 2014
  117. # [16:57] <paulc> zakim, what is the code?
  118. # [16:57] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
  119. # [16:57] * Joins: jaymunro (~jaymunro@public.cloak)
  120. # [16:58] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
  121. # [16:58] * plh zakim, call plh-work
  122. # [16:58] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
  123. # [16:58] <Zakim> +Sam
  124. # [16:58] * Joins: rubys (~rubys@public.cloak)
  125. # [16:58] <rubys> trackbot, start meeting
  126. # [16:58] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
  127. # [16:58] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  128. # [16:58] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  129. # [16:58] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be html_wg
  130. # [16:58] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  131. # [16:58] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  132. # [16:58] <trackbot> Date: 27 March 2014
  133. # [16:58] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  134. # [16:58] * Joins: Eliot (~Eliot@public.cloak)
  135. # [16:58] <paulc> Sam: I started the meeting earlier.
  136. # [16:59] <Zakim> +Philippe
  137. # [16:59] <paulc> zakim, who is on the phone?
  138. # [16:59] <Zakim> On the phone I see Sam, [Microsoft], Philippe
  139. # [16:59] * Joins: krisk (~krisk@public.cloak)
  140. # [16:59] <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
  141. # [16:59] <Zakim> +paulc; got it
  142. # [16:59] <plh> scribe: plh
  143. # [16:59] <plh> agenda+ action items
  144. # [16:59] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
  145. # [16:59] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  146. # [16:59] <plh> agenda+ decisions this week
  147. # [16:59] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
  148. # [16:59] <Zakim> +??P10
  149. # [16:59] <Eliot> Zakim, Microsoft has me
  150. # [16:59] <Zakim> +Eliot; got it
  151. # [16:59] <plh> agenda+ task force reports
  152. # [16:59] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
  153. # [16:59] <Zakim> +Daniel_Austin
  154. # [17:00] <plh> agenda+ Face-to-face
  155. # [17:00] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added
  156. # [17:00] * cwilso_ is now known as cwilso
  157. # [17:00] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  158. # [17:00] <plh> agenda+ AOB
  159. # [17:00] * Zakim notes agendum 5 added
  160. # [17:00] <jaymunro> zakim, microsoft.a has me
  161. # [17:00] <Zakim> +jaymunro; got it
  162. # [17:00] <Zakim> +glenn
  163. # [17:00] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  164. # [17:00] <krisk> Zakim, Microsoft.aa is krisk
  165. # [17:00] <Zakim> +krisk; got it
  166. # [17:01] * Joins: pladd (~pladd@public.cloak)
  167. # [17:02] <Zakim> +??P19
  168. # [17:02] <Zakim> +pladd
  169. # [17:02] <janina> zakim, ??P19 is me
  170. # [17:02] <Zakim> +janina; got it
  171. # [17:02] <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
  172. # [17:02] <Zakim> agendum 1. "action items" taken up [from plh]
  173. # [17:02] <plh> Sam: none
  174. # [17:02] <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
  175. # [17:02] <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, plh
  176. # [17:02] <plh> zakim, close agendum 1
  177. # [17:02] <Zakim> agendum 1, action items, closed
  178. # [17:03] <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
  179. # [17:03] <Zakim> 2. decisions this week [from plh]
  180. # [17:03] <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
  181. # [17:03] <Zakim> agendum 2. "decisions this week" taken up [from plh]
  182. # [17:03] <plh> Sam: issue-151
  183. # [17:03] <plh> ... by publishing a decision, this triggers responses
  184. # [17:03] <plh> ... those will either died down or turn into bug reports
  185. # [17:04] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@public.cloak)
  186. # [17:04] <plh> Glenn: I'm a bit surprised on the pushback to have clarity
  187. # [17:04] <Zakim> -glenn
  188. # [17:04] <plh> ... being told that this is not an issue isn't conducive to the discussion
  189. # [17:04] <glenn> oops lost my connection
  190. # [17:04] <plh> Sam: suggestion would be welcome
  191. # [17:04] <glenn> calling in again
  192. # [17:05] <plh> ... simply saying that references to whatwg needs to be removed isn't enough
  193. # [17:05] <Zakim> +glenn
  194. # [17:06] <plh> Glenn: my suggestion to remove was just a suggestion. I won't push for it
  195. # [17:06] * slightlyoff_ is now known as slightlyoff
  196. # [17:06] <plh> ... I'll try to document the risk of confusion might be
  197. # [17:06] <plh> ... but we don't have a problem with referencing whatwg, concern is about confusion
  198. # [17:07] <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
  199. # [17:07] <Zakim> agendum 3. "task force reports" taken up [from plh]
  200. # [17:07] <plh> Sam: Testing?
  201. # [17:08] <plh> Kris: possible to update canvas test results for IE11?
  202. # [17:08] <plh> Plh: if you have the results, yes
  203. # [17:11] <tantek> I am against removing references to WHATWG specs just because they're WHATWG.
  204. # [17:11] <plh> Plh: for html 5.0, we're still working on it
  205. # [17:11] <paulc> Canvas test results: http://www.w3.org/html/test/results/2dcontext/
  206. # [17:11] <paulc> HTML 5.0 test results: TBD
  207. # [17:11] <plh> Plh: we're targeting to have results by end of next week
  208. # [17:12] <paulc> Canvas: There is more than one page: http://www.w3.org/html/test/results/2dcontext/failures.html
  209. # [17:13] <plh> Kris: some tests are failing on all implementations for canvas
  210. # [17:14] <plh> Sam: the reports have 404
  211. # [17:15] <plh> A11Y task force
  212. # [17:15] <plh> Janina: we noted Sam's email on canvas
  213. # [17:15] <plh> ... would be good for us to answer next week on implementations
  214. # [17:15] <plh> ... and the spec does appear to be settling down
  215. # [17:16] <plh> ... until we look at the new draft on Monday
  216. # [17:16] <plh> ... hopefully, we should have it right then
  217. # [17:16] <plh> ... don't have an ETA from Chrome
  218. # [17:17] <plh> ... there is a bit of divergence between WHATWG on those functions. so some cycles needed
  219. # [17:18] <plh> ... we're making sure to go through our remaining items around alt text
  220. # [17:18] <plh> ... we'll need to be backported in 5.0
  221. # [17:18] <plh> ... and properly reflected in bugs
  222. # [17:18] <plh> ... we'll do our best to close on that next week, in advance of the f2f
  223. # [17:19] <Zakim> +??P29
  224. # [17:19] <tantek> Zakim, ??P29 is tantek
  225. # [17:19] <Zakim> +tantek; got it
  226. # [17:19] <plh> ... we should probably work in the 5.1 around the gap with table/summary and options for describing tables
  227. # [17:19] <tantek> Zakim, mute tantek
  228. # [17:19] <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
  229. # [17:19] * tantek has read the scrollback.
  230. # [17:20] <plh> ... if they get that done and not controversial, we might ask to port that into 5.0
  231. # [17:20] <plh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-test-infra/2014JanMar/0066.html
  232. # [17:21] <plh> plh: some of the tests are unstable
  233. # [17:22] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@public.cloak) ("My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  234. # [17:23] <plh> ... generating results on 5 different platforms, running 10 times each
  235. # [17:23] <plh> ... generating with the firefox test runner
  236. # [17:24] <krisk> Great information
  237. # [17:25] <krisk> For example http://w3c-test.org/html/browsers/history/the-location-interface/location-stringifier.html
  238. # [17:26] <krisk> Has test that everyone fails, would be great to talk about at the F2F
  239. # [17:27] <plh> Paul: how long will we need at the f2f?
  240. # [17:28] <SteveF> JS said we're making sure to go through our remaining items around alt text. we'll need to be backported in 5.0 and properly reflected in bugs
  241. # [17:28] <plh> Plh: we'll need to bound the discussion. too many test results otherwise. we'll have to rely on folks to tell us what tests to look at and use this to inform CR at rtisk discussion
  242. # [17:28] <plh> Media Taskf Force
  243. # [17:29] <SteveF> all done, on my part
  244. # [17:29] <plh> Paul: not much to report. we're meeting every 2 weeks, concentrating on EME. We're in stable state of 20+ bugs
  245. # [17:29] <plh> ... on MSE, we did have some initials from Google
  246. # [17:29] <plh> ... one other member is digging into the tests
  247. # [17:29] <Zakim> -Daniel_Austin
  248. # [17:30] * Quits: darobin (rberjon@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  249. # [17:30] <plh> ... so we may be ready to have that discussion for MSE tests at the f2f
  250. # [17:30] <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
  251. # [17:30] <Zakim> agendum 4. "Face-to-face" taken up [from plh]
  252. # [17:30] <plh> Sam: registration closes tomorrow
  253. # [17:30] <plh> ... https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-04-Agenda#Potential_Topics
  254. # [17:31] <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
  255. # [17:31] <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, plh
  256. # [17:31] <plh> zakim, close agendum 4
  257. # [17:31] <Zakim> agendum 4, Face-to-face, closed
  258. # [17:31] <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
  259. # [17:31] <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
  260. # [17:31] <Zakim> 5. AOB [from plh]
  261. # [17:31] <Zakim> agendum 5. "AOB" taken up [from plh]
  262. # [17:31] <plh> Sam: polyglot status
  263. # [17:31] <plh> ... bug count is 0
  264. # [17:31] <plh> Eliott: hoping it's ready to be published
  265. # [17:32] <plh> ... will look at the test framework after that
  266. # [17:32] <rubys> s/Eliott/Eliot/
  267. # [17:32] <plh> Sam: on Canvas, was covered earlier
  268. # [17:32] <plh> ... goal is to report progress by mid next week
  269. # [17:33] <plh> ... Alt guidance work
  270. # [17:33] <plh> ... trying to get that done by f2f
  271. # [17:33] <plh> Paul: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Mar/0085.html
  272. # [17:33] <plh> ... only one bug that is in 5.1 that needs to be backported into 5.0
  273. # [17:34] <plh> ... the TF would need to discuss alt guidance future
  274. # [17:34] <plh> ... whether it needs to be dropped
  275. # [17:35] <plh> Janina: we're also tracking an other issue
  276. # [17:37] <krisk> I can scribe
  277. # [17:37] <plh> Topic: Next meeting
  278. # [17:37] <plh> Kris will scribe
  279. # [17:37] <plh> Paul will chair
  280. # [17:38] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  281. # [17:38] <Zakim> -pladd
  282. # [17:38] <tantek> thank you
  283. # [17:38] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  284. # [17:38] <plh> [adjourned]
  285. # [17:38] <Zakim> -glenn
  286. # [17:38] <Zakim> -janina
  287. # [17:38] <Zakim> -Sam
  288. # [17:38] <Zakim> -??P10
  289. # [17:38] <Zakim> -Philippe
  290. # [17:38] <Zakim> -tantek
  291. # [17:39] <Zakim> -krisk
  292. # [17:39] * Quits: jaymunro (~jaymunro@public.cloak) ("")
  293. # [17:40] <Zakim> -paulc
  294. # [17:40] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  295. # [17:40] <Zakim> Attendees were Sam, Philippe, paulc, Eliot, Daniel_Austin, [Microsoft], jaymunro, glenn, krisk, pladd, janina, tantek
  296. # [17:41] * Quits: krisk (~krisk@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
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  301. # [18:17] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
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  306. # [18:31] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  307. # [18:41] * Quits: rubys (~rubys@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
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  312. # [19:02] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
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  318. # [19:10] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
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  322. # [19:56] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  323. # [19:56] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@public.cloak) ("ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]")
  324. # [20:00] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@public.cloak)
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  328. # [20:06] * Quits: anssik (~uid10742@public.cloak) ("Connection closed for inactivity")
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  341. # [21:15] * Quits: jernoble_ (~jernoble@public.cloak) ("My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  342. # [21:21] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  343. # [21:24] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
  344. # [21:24] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  345. # [21:28] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak) ("My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  346. # [21:30] * cabanier_ is now known as cabanier
  347. # [21:31] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  348. # [21:46] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
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  357. # [22:53] * Quits: lgombos (~gombos@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
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  361. # [23:33] * Quits: silvia (~Adium@public.cloak) (silvia)
  362. # [23:33] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  363. # [23:39] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  364. # [23:43] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  365. # Session Close: Fri Mar 28 00:00:00 2014

The end :)