/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2010-12-09 / end

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  101. # [07:35] <cardona507> anybody check this data mining book that was on hacker news earlier? http://goo.gl/VecGX
  102. # [07:36] <cardona507> i'm only a few pages in and already getting a lot out of it
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  120. # [09:12] <tofik_> good morning
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  131. # [09:42] <JKarsrud> http://www.jqueery.com/
  132. # [09:43] <JKarsrud> Ooops, wrong room, sorry!
  133. # [09:46] <Epeli> oh,crap rainbows and unicorns :S
  134. # [09:48] <JKarsrud> It wasn't supposed to be posted in this awesome room, but in my company's OT room :P
  135. # [09:51] <Epeli> :)
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  168. # [13:34] <ron_frown> is there a way with html5 alone I can draw the little arrows you might find on say an popup info box (the arrow being the little bit that points at something)
  169. # [13:34] <ron_frown> not canvas
  170. # [13:34] <ron_frown> http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/global/images/showtimes/showtimes-map-infobox-short.png
  171. # [13:34] <ron_frown> something like that, just dynamicly built
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  173. # [13:34] <Peter`> ron_frown, http://nicolasgallagher.com/pure-css-speech-bubbles/demo/ ?
  174. # [13:35] <ron_frown> peter are you a robot?
  175. # [13:35] <ron_frown> haha
  176. # [13:35] <ron_frown> thanks for the very quick response =)
  177. # [13:35] <Peter`> I just tend to bookmark such sites :)
  178. # [13:37] <ron_frown> the twitter example on that page is almost precisely what i want to do
  179. # [13:38] <ron_frown> dont quite see whats actually making the arrow tho... hmmm
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  237. # [17:35] <mokush> have any of you guys used iScroll? or touchScroll?
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  240. # [17:55] <BrianBlakely> No, but I was just going to post this amazing article that shows you how to do something similar: http://code.google.com/mobile/articles/webapp_fixed_ui.html
  241. # [17:56] <BrianBlakely> The WebKitCSSMatrix tip is ridiculously useful
  242. # [17:56] <Peter`> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/73613 :)
  243. # [17:57] <mokush> BrianBlakely: problem is, that's webkit-only
  244. # [17:57] <mokush> how about opera and the rest of the mobile space?
  245. # [17:58] <BrianBlakely> Yeaaahhh… how about them… >_>
  246. # [17:58] <BrianBlakely> :P
  247. # [17:58] <mokush> "best viewed with internet explorer 4 and webkit"
  248. # [18:00] <BrianBlakely> hehe
  249. # [18:00] <mokush> I can't understand why they couldn't just freakin handle overflow: scroll/auto by default
  250. # [18:00] <BrianBlakely> Because that would be too awesome
  251. # [18:01] <mokush> BrianBlakely: true.
  252. # [18:01] <BrianBlakely> And, well, it might interfere with the scrolling of the page itself
  253. # [18:01] <mokush> also, I can't understand why opera couldn't freaking implement flexbox already.
  254. # [18:01] <BrianBlakely> You can't rely on authors to do a good job
  255. # [18:01] <BrianBlakely> mokush: Yeah, very un-Opera-like
  256. # [18:02] <mokush> BrianBlakely: well they do a great job with the standards, so, if that was ironic, it's not justified
  257. # [18:04] <BrianBlakely> It wasn't, heh
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  260. # [18:06] <JonathanNeal> Seriously?
  261. # [18:06] <JonathanNeal> Boilerplate is a public domain word.
  262. # [18:07] <JonathanNeal> :P
  263. # [18:07] <l4rk> yeah hahahaha
  264. # [18:08] <l4rk> mokush: i have
  265. # [18:08] <l4rk> its pretty useless imo
  266. # [18:08] <mokush> l4rk: which one?
  267. # [18:08] <l4rk> probably both, the app we worked on was an ebook reader and we just went with the fade out approach and fade back in once the scrolling was complete
  268. # [18:08] <l4rk> for fixed positioning
  269. # [18:09] <l4rk> not sure what you're using it for
  270. # [18:11] <mokush> l4rk: problem is, the issue is also present on tablets, and I can't use the fade-in-out header+footer technique there.
  271. # [18:11] <l4rk> android tablets/ipad?
  272. # [18:11] <l4rk> same concept should apply to those
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  274. # [18:13] <mokush> l4rk: well, no, because I have a different UI on tablets.
  275. # [18:14] <mokush> and will need both vertical an horizontal srolling in different containers, while the overall ui 'sits still'
  276. # [18:14] <l4rk> :-/ just seems like bit of a hack thats all
  277. # [18:14] <mokush> so using css3 flexbox and iscroll/or-something seemed like a great idea
  278. # [18:15] <BrianBlakely> l4rk: Any specific complaint about these solutions?
  279. # [18:15] * Joins: softdrink (~softdrink@216.194.126.164)
  280. # [18:15] <BrianBlakely> l4rk: Performance, maybe?
  281. # [18:16] <BrianBlakely> l4rk: Just unnecessary, when other workarounds may exist?
  282. # [18:17] <softdrink> when nesting menus, what should the structure be? menu>li+li+li+menu>li… ?
  283. # [18:18] <l4rk> emulating the native concept of scrolling is my complaint
  284. # [18:18] <l4rk> its ridiculous
  285. # [18:20] <mokush> l4rk: well, i agree, but why couldn't they just get overflow:scroll right, so we wouldn't have to use js to scroll a damn container.
  286. # [18:20] <BrianBlakely> l4rk: I feel like Gmail did it very well. I couldn't even tell until I got confirmation straight from the horse's mouth
  287. # [18:21] <l4rk> mokush: yea
  288. # [18:21] <l4rk> BrianBlakely: yeah apple is using the same concept in their mobile framework as well
  289. # [18:21] <l4rk> doesn't mean its right
  290. # [18:22] <BrianBlakely> l4rk: Apple's mobile framework? For JavaScript? Wazzat?
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  292. # [18:22] <l4rk> BrianBlakely: they have an internal library/framework/mystery that they use in all their mobile pages
  293. # [18:22] <BrianBlakely> mokush: Why couldn't they have supported position: fixed, albeit in an altered fashion, for that matter?
  294. # [18:22] <l4rk> its not publically available afaik
  295. # [18:22] <l4rk> but you can beautify and analyze it easily enough
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  297. # [18:23] <BrianBlakely> l4rk: Ah, thought so. I wonder if there are any goodies swimming about in that code
  298. # [18:23] <BrianBlakely> seeeecrets
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  300. # [18:23] <dilvie> is anybody aware of any browser limitations on the length of an attribute name?
  301. # [18:23] <mokush> browsers makers hate web devs, and that's that.
  302. # [18:24] <nimbupani> whattt
  303. # [18:24] <dilvie> I'm creating the standards doc for our use of the HTML5 data-* attributes. Need to standardize our namespace conventions.
  304. # [18:24] <dilvie> Wondering if there are any cross-browser considerations I need to be aware of.
  305. # [18:25] <BrianBlakely> dilvie: I don't know for sure, but considering attr values are virtually unlimited, I would think the same of attr names
  306. # [18:25] <mokush> dilvie: should definetly call microsoft and ask :P
  307. # [18:26] <BrianBlakely> mokush: Vendors don't hate authors, per say, they just don't trust them :)
  308. # [18:26] <softdrink> as long as a browser passes spec, i don't care ;)
  309. # [18:26] <dilvie> I'm going to do a cross browser test to find out if there are any limitations on our target browsers.
  310. # [18:26] <mokush> BrianBlakely: authors=terrorists
  311. # [18:27] <dilvie> If anybody is curious, I'll post any bugs I find on my blog.
  312. # [18:27] <BrianBlakely> dilvie: Link to your blog?
  313. # [18:27] <dilvie> http://ericleads.com/
  314. # [18:31] <mokush> l4rk: what script did you use? iScroll? was it buggy?
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  316. # [18:36] <l4rk> mokush: it was early this year, so stuff might have changed since then
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  318. # [18:36] <l4rk> and no, we just didn't agree with the approach
  319. # [18:36] <mokush> l4rk: and was it the only script-of-type you tried?
  320. # [18:37] <l4rk> i don't know what that means
  321. # [18:37] <JonathanNeal> Any of you guys know how to tell firebug to stop rolling up the firebug panel every time I refresh a page or navigate within the same domain?
  322. # [18:37] <JonathanNeal> This is getting VERY frustrating.
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  325. # [18:37] <JonathanNeal> I think the deactivate tab doesn't remember anymore.
  326. # [18:37] <l4rk> miketaylr: ur the new ie6 fyi
  327. # [18:38] <miketaylr> crap
  328. # [18:38] <bot-t> (16 hours 40 mins ago) <nimbupani> tell miketaylr why does it look like this in Opera 11 :((((( http://dl.dropbox.com/u/952/spiral.html
  329. # [18:38] <bot-t> (12 mins 10 secs ago) <l4rk> tell miketaylr are there viewable release notes for opera 11?
  330. # [18:38] <bot-t> (5 mins 44 secs ago) <nimbupani> tell miketaylr can I have a stuffed O?
  331. # [18:38] <miketaylr> l4rk: about release notes, i think there are a few, one sec
  332. # [18:38] <l4rk> why ren't u in the place we don't talk about
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  343. # [18:58] <softdrink> I have some tabs on a page built with nav>(li+a…). the last one is a "more" menu. semantically, how should I handle that? the <menu> element combined with <li> or <option> or <command> is giving me no end of trouble
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  347. # [19:01] <mokush> l4rk: I ment these 'js-scroller-simulators'
  348. # [19:02] <l4rk> yeah, like i said we didn't like the approach and changed to do the fade
  349. # [19:02] <l4rk> worked better
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  359. # [19:29] <mokush> hey, I found a way to make vbox-hbox using box-sizing instead of css3 flexbox.
  360. # [19:30] <mokush> anybody else used this technique? making the header and footer(for example) absolute, and paddings on the container.
  361. # [19:30] <mokush> and making the container height 100%, and using border-box on it.
  362. # [19:30] <mokush> makes sense?
  363. # [19:31] <Peter`> Make an example page :)
  364. # [19:32] * tw2113 crashes headfirst into the corner
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  367. # [19:37] <mokush> Peter`: http://jsfiddle.net/74xjY/
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  370. # [19:39] <nimbupani> http://jsfiddle.net/74xjY/1/
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  373. # [19:41] <Peter`> http://jsfiddle.net/74xjY/2/
  374. # [19:42] <Peter`> it's fixed height indeed, but that's not always a problem
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  376. # [19:42] <mokush> http://jsfiddle.net/74xjY/3/
  377. # [19:43] <mokush> you can also use percentages or anything else
  378. # [19:45] <mokush> as long as the same value goes into the padding
  379. # [19:46] <mokush> Peter`: I tought using box-sizing on the body would make everything go crazy, but aparently everything works just fine.
  380. # [19:46] <nimbupani> but flex box makes it easier
  381. # [19:46] * Quits: paul_irish (~paul_iris@67.218.106.212) (Remote host closed the connection)
  382. # [19:46] <nimbupani> to have them all liquid
  383. # [19:46] <mokush> nimbupani: it does, and I love flexbox, but opera doesn't
  384. # [19:46] <nimbupani> but flexbox is not a finished draft
  385. # [19:47] <nimbupani> its going to be rewritten
  386. # [19:47] <nimbupani> and all that.
  387. # [19:47] <mokush> nimbupani: so this seems like a good work-around, for anyway.
  388. # [19:47] <nimbupani> yeah
  389. # [19:47] <mokush> rewritten??
  390. # [19:47] <Peter`> not truly rewritten
  391. # [19:47] <Peter`> it'll be updated with renamed properties
  392. # [19:47] <Peter`> to be flex-* instead of box-*
  393. # [19:47] <nimbupani> but i thought Tab said it would be a new proposal?
  394. # [19:48] <Peter`> I dunno, but I can't imagine it being entirely different if it had three implementations
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  396. # [19:50] <nimbupani> yeah me neither. but i am sure the differences will not be insignificant.
  397. # [19:50] <Peter`> yup
  398. # [19:50] <mokush> so the current flexbox is not to be used
  399. # [19:50] <Peter`> Opera 11 is planned for this month
  400. # [19:50] <Peter`> apparently
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  402. # [19:50] <Peter`> that means multiple columns and gradients may not make it :(
  403. # [19:51] <nimbupani> :/
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  406. # [19:53] <mokush> Peter`: you can use box-shadow for gradients, if you really need them.
  407. # [19:54] <Peter`> I know that :) Thank you
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  411. # [19:56] <miketaylr> you can also just use .svg
  412. # [19:56] <Peter`> I'm going to wait for Leif to finish it :p
  413. # [19:57] <miketaylr> that too ;)
  414. # [19:57] <mokush> leif?
  415. # [19:57] <miketaylr> opera core dev
  416. # [19:57] <mokush> oh'
  417. # [19:59] <mokush> does opera have some sort of "--allow-file-blabla" security option like chrome, to be able to use ajax on local?
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  425. # [20:27] <mokush> styling webkit's scrollbars? good/bad idea?
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  433. # [20:31] <JonathanNeal> baaaad
  434. # [20:33] <mokush> but better than using js
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  438. # [20:40] <mokush> how come vodafone sponsored some of ppk's tables?
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  449. # [20:58] <Ms2ger> mokush, they got him the phones he used to test, IIRC
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  451. # [21:00] <nimbupani> baaad +1
  452. # [21:07] <BrianBlakely> mokush: Since when can you style scrollbars in anything but IEs?
  453. # [21:07] <mokush> BrianBlakely: since last year
  454. # [21:07] <Ms2ger> WebKit added some pseudo-elements a while ago
  455. # [21:07] <mokush> http://webkit.org/blog/363/styling-scrollbars/
  456. # [21:07] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@nat/google/x-njsifpxtprobhwmc)
  457. # [21:09] <mokush> pretty stupid, but I'm trying to shut my client up
  458. # [21:14] <BrianBlakely> Don't see a major problem with non-OS scrollbars, Microsoft/Apple/Gnome's aesthetics are not the end-all, be-all
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  462. # [21:16] <BrianBlakely> Wacky jQuery plugins turned me off for a while, but rolling my own solution helped
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  464. # [21:16] <mokush> BrianBlakely: solution for custom scrollbars?
  465. # [21:16] <BrianBlakely> Yah
  466. # [21:17] <mokush> is there a way to make webkit calculate the height of a container with the horizontal scrollbar of the container included, like firefox and opera do?
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  468. # [21:18] <BrianBlakely> I always just add 15 to the base number, that appears to be pretty universal for some reason
  469. # [21:18] <mokush> BrianBlakely: what do you mean?
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  471. # [21:19] <BrianBlakely> I take the base measurement that the browser gives me (such as, for offsetHeight), and add 15 to compensate for the existence of the scrollbar
  472. # [21:22] <mokush> BrianBlakely: my actual problem is that webkit renderes the scrollbars **inside** the container
  473. # [21:23] <mokush> instead of outside, and auto-adjusting the height of the container
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  480. # [21:53] <BrianBlakely> mokush: Hrmm, I never noticed a big difference
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  482. # [21:53] <mokush> BrianBlakely: I managed to get around it with some ugly webkit-only css, with box-sizing
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  494. # [22:09] <danielfilho> have you guys seem this? https://github.com/batiste/sprite.js
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  522. # [22:48] * Joins: binni (~binni@dsl-149-97-250.hive.is)
  523. # [22:48] <binni> anyone here know how to create a polygon with fabric.js and if it accepts 4 points?
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  526. # [22:55] <binni> I tried passing a points param like this: "..points: [[thisPathRect[0].x,thisPathRect[0].y],[thisPathRect[1].x,thisPathRect[1].y], [thisPathRect[2].x,thisPathRect[2].y], [thisPathRect[3].x,thisPathRect[3].y]].." but get error; "array[i] is undefined"
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  529. # [23:01] <binni> hmm, seam to have copy pasted the .x and .y which don't work
  530. # [23:02] <binni> but still, replacing them with [0] and[1] give me the same error
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  534. # [23:04] <pa7> if this was made with websockets it could be really cool http://letmein.at/experiments/multiuser-heatmap/
  535. # [23:05] <tw2113> http://main.makeuseoflimited.netdna-cdn.com/tech-fun/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/browsermarker.jpg
  536. # [23:05] <pa7> tw2113: haha poor IE
  537. # [23:07] * softdrink distributes
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  539. # [23:07] * Quits: prgmrBill (~prgmrBill@unaffiliated/prgmrbill) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  540. # [23:09] <tw2113> distributes soft drinks or that link?
  541. # [23:09] <softdrink> can it be both?
  542. # [23:09] <tw2113> sure
  543. # [23:09] <softdrink> rock.
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  545. # [23:15] * Joins: rudyl313 (4a3e22ee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.62.34.238)
  546. # [23:17] <rudyl313> I'm trying to set a background-color to match the edges of my centered background-image and for some reason, although chrome is reporting that the color is right, the OSX "Digital Color Meter" is confirming that the color is not correct...anybody had experience with this problem?
  547. # [23:19] * Parts: Acwb (~Acwb@ip565f4feb.direct-adsl.nl)
  548. # [23:20] <bckenny> maybe an embedded color profile in the image?
  549. # [23:21] * Quits: pa7 (51d9746e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.217.116.110) (Quit: Page closed)
  550. # [23:26] <rudyl313> bckenny: the weird part is that when I mouse over the background-color area with the DigitalColor Meter the RGB value I get back is different from what chrome is claiming to be the value it is displaying
  551. # [23:26] <rudyl313> bckenny: i.e. its not the image thats the problem
  552. # [23:28] <bckenny> hmm
  553. # [23:29] <bckenny> I'm not familiar with the digital color meter
  554. # [23:29] <rudyl313> my jpeg appears to have the following color profile: "sRGB IEC61966-2.1"
  555. # [23:30] <BrianBlakely> bckenny: It's built into OS X
  556. # [23:30] * Parts: BrianBlakely (~Adium@208.253.25.162)
  557. # [23:30] <bckenny> theoretically, at least, css colors should be specified in sRGB and displayed in sRGB
  558. # [23:31] <bckenny> but I'm not sure what chrome's status is there in terms of color management, or if the OS might then change the color profile for the particular display
  559. # [23:31] <rudyl313> bckenny: yeah, you would think so
  560. # [23:31] <bckenny> and which the color meter is measuring
  561. # [23:31] <bckenny> does it look the same? :)
  562. # [23:31] <rudyl313> I can take a screenshot I suppose
  563. # [23:31] <rudyl313> hold on
  564. # [23:33] <tw2113> anyone else hate joomla?
  565. # [23:34] <tw2113> i'm looking at some rendered pages from it and going wtf
  566. # [23:36] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.81.54) (Quit: nn)
  567. # [23:39] <rudyl313> so here is my screenshot: http://img.skitch.com/20101209-tbfejapqi1775a9prakbmq97hs.jpg
  568. # [23:41] <rudyl313> bckenny: ^
  569. # [23:42] * Joins: pa7 (51d9746e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.217.116.110)
  570. # [23:43] <bckenny> lulz to the "looks ok in the screenshot"
  571. # [23:43] <bckenny> oh color management, is there anything you dont make confusign?
  572. # [23:43] <rudyl313> bckenny: thats another "wtf"
  573. # [23:44] <rudyl313> maybe the jpeg compression in hte screenshot fixed the color
  574. # [23:44] <bckenny> that does imply it has something to do with profiles
  575. # [23:44] <bckenny> so do they not match on your screen?
  576. # [23:44] <rudyl313> not at all
  577. # [23:44] <pa7> lol - funny to see people just searching for nudity and visiting the nude.js project page
  578. # [23:44] <rudyl313> it looks "brown"
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  580. # [23:44] <rudyl313> and you can see in the color meter that it doesn;'t match numerically
  581. # [23:45] <bckenny> how does it look in safari?
  582. # [23:45] <rudyl313> let me see
  583. # [23:46] <rudyl313> bckenny: nope still that brownish-green in safari
  584. # [23:46] <bckenny> hmm, weird
  585. # [23:47] <rudyl313> rudyl313 I'm about ready to use a div inside and div and a 1by1px image
  586. # [23:47] * jacine is now known as jacine|afk
  587. # [23:47] <bckenny> :)
  588. # [23:47] <bckenny> i just stopped using images and try to always use css3
  589. # [23:48] <bckenny> which is really just as bad, but the other way
  590. # [23:48] <bckenny> color management is still kind of a mess across browsers
  591. # [23:48] <bckenny> i know theres an open chrome bug on it, but I dont know what the specifics are
  592. # [23:50] * Joins: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-22-131-46.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  593. # [23:50] <bckenny> at least the specs now are written with it in mind and, for instance, colors used in a canvas are required to match the same colors used in background-colors and what have you
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  595. # [23:50] <bckenny> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=143
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  597. # [23:51] <bckenny> but if its in sRGB alreday, I dont know
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  599. # [23:55] * Parts: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
  600. # [23:57] <pa7> damn.. doing open source stuff consumes lots of time, wish I could do more :l
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  602. # Session Close: Fri Dec 10 00:00:00 2010

The end :)