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- # Session Start: Wed Dec 29 00:00:00 2010
- # Session Ident: #html5
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- # [02:01] <tw2113> ewww @ cgcardona
- # [02:01] <cgcardona> what did I do?
- # [02:02] <tw2113> i dunno
- # [02:02] <tw2113> :D
- # [02:02] <cgcardona> hehe
- # [02:02] <cgcardona> i thought it was my question in wordpress
- # [02:03] <tw2113> nah, just for being :D
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- # [08:04] <tw2113> middle of the night all
- # [08:15] <cgcardona> I go walkin in my sleep
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- # [15:00] <prgmrBill> what is the support like for <button>? should I use it, or is it always a safer bet to just stick with input?
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- # [15:26] <Syniq> Is there a rational for this? "target on link elements: Unnecessary. Omit it altogether."
- # [15:26] <Syniq> from: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#non-conforming-features
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- # [15:30] <Ms2ger> Syniq, what would you use it for?
- # [15:30] <Syniq> External links?
- # [15:30] <Syniq> On practically every commercial site on the planet?
- # [15:30] <jetienne> _blank stuff
- # [15:30] <Ms2ger> This isn't about a elements
- # [15:31] <Syniq> Yes, it is.
- # [15:31] <Ms2ger> No
- # [15:31] <Ms2ger> "target on link elements"
- # [15:31] <Ms2ger> "link elements"
- # [15:31] <Ms2ger> "link"
- # [15:31] <Ms2ger> Not "a'
- # [15:31] <Syniq> Then why does the validator flag <a href="blah" target="_blank"> up as a warning?
- # [15:31] <Peter`> Do you ever use <link target="_blank"> ?
- # [15:31] <jetienne> what is the difference between a "element" and "tag"
- # [15:32] <Peter`> The XHTML validator shows that as a warning, Syniq, the HTML(5) validator does not.
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- # [15:33] <Syniq> OK, my mistake, then. It's Zend being idiots when building their validators for Zend Studio.
- # [15:34] <Ms2ger> jetienne, an element is what's in the DOM, a tag is a string
- # [15:35] <jetienne> hmmm
- # [15:36] <jetienne> im not satisfied :)
- # [15:37] <miketaylr> ?g perfection kills element is not a tag
- # [15:37] <bot-t> miketaylr, Perfection kills » Tag is not an element. Or is it? - http://perfectionkills.com/tag-is-not-an-element-or-is-it/
- # [15:37] <miketaylr> jetienne: ^^
- # [15:39] <jetienne> miketaylr: thanks will look
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- # [16:39] <tw2113> yay! I'm likely getting myself a copy of Forklift :)
- # [16:42] <paul_irish> hot
- # [16:42] <paul_irish> how does it compare to cyberduck
- # [16:42] <tw2113> dual pane = win
- # [16:43] <tw2113> i could definitely see productivity increase
- # [16:44] <tw2113> i'm giving transmit a whirl just for the heck of it, and it has 5 days trial left
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- # [16:52] <JocelynD> Hi
- # [16:53] <JocelynD> I'm using a canvas to resize jpeg images client-side before uploading them. Is there a way to specify the scaling algorithm used ? cause scaling result is rather ugly compared to what imagemagick/gimp/whatever is able to do.
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- # [16:57] <Ms2ger> JocelynD, no
- # [16:57] <Ms2ger> File bugs on browsers to implement better scaling
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- # [17:00] <tw2113> aghhhhhhhhhh
- # [17:00] <tw2113> some other people have been part of a latest project, and they tried out their hands at one of the widgets we'll use, and they had to link to Willow Smith youtube
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- # [17:09] <miketaylr> mmm
- # [17:09] <tw2113> mom-made too
- # [17:14] <JocelynD> Ms2ger: ok, thanks for the enlightenment :)
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- # [18:11] <BrianBlakely> Having trouble getting the innerHTML out of an <iframe> in Webkit
- # [18:11] <BrianBlakely> Any advice?
- # [18:14] <monteslu> is the iframe in the same domain?
- # [18:15] <BrianBlakely> No :/
- # [18:17] <BrianBlakely> So, there's probably no hope
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- # [18:17] <BrianBlakely> It just means I can't style this client's product finder, as the creator of said finder never heard of JSONP, apparently
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- # [18:23] <monteslu> or you have to do it on your server side
- # [18:24] <paul_irish> yup. proxy it? iunno. kinda sucks
- # [18:25] <monteslu> yep
- # [18:26] <monteslu> it the other site wants it services to be consumed it really should provide jsonp support
- # [18:30] <BrianBlakely> monteslu: Client engineers aren't always the most logical...
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- # [18:41] <dilvie> Does anybody know what the current browser support is for novalidate and formnovalidate attributes?
- # [18:42] <paul_irish> dilvie: nope. but fire up http://oksoclap.com:1337 in your browsers and try some feature tests.
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- # [18:44] <dilvie> Paul - WTF is that? Awesome!
- # [18:44] <dilvie> =)
- # [18:46] <paul_irish> it's tutti. it's the jam
- # [18:46] <paul_irish> this is #jquery's instance of it.
- # [18:46] <paul_irish> but we can share. ;)
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- # [18:49] <paul_irish> dilvie: no alerts or infinite loops.
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- # [18:53] <paul_irish> nimbupani do you want to be the lead blogger on html5watch?
- # [18:53] <paul_irish> dilvie: wtf. i told you not to
- # [18:53] <nimbupani> def paul_irish
- # [18:53] <nimbupani> seems like its dead since aug :///
- # [18:54] <paul_irish> nimbupani: yup. well neven is giving me the reigns
- # [18:54] <nimbupani> oh good.
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- # [18:54] <dilvie> haha, woops.
- # [18:55] <dilvie> I did the last alert.
- # [18:55] <dilvie> Sorry. );
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- # [18:57] <nimbupani> people doing "proof-of-concept" that "only works in webkit" (but uses features found on all major browsers) and releasing it for the world need to be given a talking to.
- # [18:57] <paul_irish> talk to simurai
- # [18:57] <aj00200> agreed
- # [18:58] <paul_irish> your bf
- # [18:58] <nimbupani> IF ONLY
- # [18:58] <paul_irish> anyway i disagree.
- # [18:58] <nimbupani> whyy
- # [18:58] <paul_irish> http://simurai.com/post/1338679924/css3-flirts
- # [18:58] <paul_irish> "There are people like Paul or Divya that have been pushing me to make them more cross-browser. Thanks and sorry, for letting you down so often. "
- # [18:59] <paul_irish> cant believe i got lumped in with debbie downers like you D:
- # [18:59] <paul_irish> ?ud debbie downer @ nimbupani
- # [18:59] <bot-t> nimbupani, Debbie Downer - Etymology: From the Saturday Night Live character Debbie Downer, played by Rachel Dratch Function: Noun 1. a: a person who says something terribly depressing (a downer), typically only tangentially related to the present circumstance or topic of conversation, and thereby destroys the positive atmosphere. b: a statement that is charactaristic of Debbie Downer Usage note: In the skit, following each downer Debbie voi...
- # [18:59] <dilvie> cross browser is fun.
- # [19:00] <nimbupani> ?slap paul_irish
- # [19:00] * bot-t slaps paul_irish around a bit with a large trout
- # [19:00] <paul_irish> well quick hacks that dont work in ie6 is also fun.
- # [19:00] <nimbupani> well hacks are fun
- # [19:00] <paul_irish> s/ie6/everything but your favorite browser
- # [19:00] <tw2113> i thought we were talking about browsers
- # [19:00] <tw2113> not IE6
- # [19:00] <nimbupani> but if you are doing stuff that is almost standard
- # [19:00] <nimbupani> why not use them!
- # [19:01] <paul_irish> well hey i made css3 please so its trivial in many cases.
- # [19:01] <nimbupani> exactly.
- # [19:01] <dilvie> I've seen some pretty amazing things happen in IE6.
- # [19:01] <dilvie> it's possible.
- # [19:01] <nimbupani> and use mixins and what not to make it as less effort as possible
- # [19:01] <nimbupani> granted it is not trivial to do CSS these days.
- # [19:01] <dilvie> it's just the work/reward ratio is pretty terrible.
- # [19:02] <tw2113> is it just me, or is styling a table, a pain
- # [19:02] <tw2113> even in modern browsers
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- # [19:04] <addyosmani> tutti has some interesting quirks
- # [19:05] <nimbupani> its so much fun.
- # [19:05] <nimbupani> but what are the quirks?
- # [19:05] <dilvie> paul_irish: h5Validate survived our first 1,000 people beta -- but we discovered that inline validation is not enough. You also need to pop up a giant "your form is invalid, dummy!" error message in addition to the inline error messages.
- # [19:06] <addyosmani> I'm not sure if the desired output when passing it HTML strings are that they get rendered directly to the browser, although given it's browser-based i'm not really that surprised
- # [19:07] <dilvie> so my theory that inline is enough to remove the block-form-submit requirement got killed.
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- # [19:11] <BrianBlakely> tw2113: I find that if I mark up my <table>s like the one on this page: http://www.filamentgroup.com/lab/update_to_jquery_visualize_accessible_charts_with_html5_from_designing_with/ … then I have enough hooks to make interesting things happen
- # [19:12] <tw2113> i get to style a jquery calendar plugin
- # [19:13] <dilvie> jQuery is not available on tutti?
- # [19:13] <BrianBlakely> tw2113: If it's UI Datepicker, that can definitely be incredibly annoying while supporting IEs
- # [19:14] <BrianBlakely> I had to support IE6 in such a situation
- # [19:14] <tw2113> sounds right unless my coworkers went with something else
- # [19:15] <tw2113> does that calendar spit out j_eme_calendar stuff?
- # [19:15] <BrianBlakely> tw2113: I don't know what that is
- # [19:16] <tw2113> fun fun nonetheless
- # [19:17] <paul_irish> miketaylr:
- # [19:17] <paul_irish> SlexAxton:
- # [19:17] <miketaylr> yo
- # [19:17] <paul_irish> (and dilvie)
- # [19:17] <dilvie> yes?
- # [19:17] <paul_irish> all input types consider empty string to be an invalid value, right?
- # [19:17] <paul_irish> like.. <input type=number value="">
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- # [19:18] <paul_irish> will be :invalid, afaik
- # [19:18] <dilvie> paul_irish: if it's required, value="" should be marked invalid
- # [19:18] <paul_irish> but if @required is not there, that is not the case?
- # [19:19] <SlexAxton> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/number-state.html
- # [19:19] <SlexAxton> yea
- # [19:19] <SlexAxton> that says
- # [19:19] <SlexAxton> you should be able to set it to ''
- # [19:19] <paul_irish> yup
- # [19:19] <dilvie> paul_irish: Correct, afaik.
- # [19:19] <paul_irish> okay then said modernizr bug report is a browser bug.
- # [19:20] <paul_irish> yup
- # [19:20] <paul_irish> https://github.com/Modernizr/Modernizr/issues#issue/171 btw
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- # [19:22] <miketaylr> not a super useful modernizr feature
- # [19:23] <paul_irish> nah
- # [19:24] <tw2113> turns out we started using a plugin for the events
- # [19:26] <tw2113> oy, one reason i dislike relying on plugins...they insert their own stuff to make sure things work, even if i already have the same stuff covered
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- # [19:29] <BrianBlakely> tw2113: I stopped using a certain popular custom scrollbar plugin for this reason
- # [19:29] <BrianBlakely> (and jQuery, to an extent)
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- # [19:49] <monteslu> that's definitely a plus for dojo, plugin cohesiveness :)
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- # [19:55] <dilvie> paul_irish: is there an easy way to use jQuery in tutti?
- # [19:56] <paul_irish> noo
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- # [20:04] <dilvie> noo? );
- # [20:04] <dilvie> so much for short one-liner feature detection.
- # [20:04] <tw2113> so no that you get two O's
- # [20:04] <dilvie> I'm going to try to paste a bookmarklet.
- # [20:04] <dilvie> I have my own tutti set up.
- # [20:04] <dilvie> I won't break yours. =)
- # [20:05] <paul_irish> sweet.
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- # [20:07] <tw2113> i don't care what any of ya say, Queen was a band so full of win, that *insert something*
- # [20:07] * monteslu inserts something
- # [20:08] <tw2113> http://www.cynicalchicken.net/videos/queen-im-going-slightly-mad/
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- # [20:10] <dilvie> lies
- # [20:12] <dilvie> tutti says ie has console.log
- # [20:12] <dilvie> =)
- # [20:13] <paul_irish> it does in ie8+
- # [20:13] * tw2113 smiles because he just used border-radius
- # [20:13] <dilvie> paul_irish: IE9 running in IE7 mode reports a false positive for console.log.
- # [20:13] <dilvie> as does ieTester
- # [20:14] <tw2113> ugh, i slowly despise IETester
- # [20:14] <tw2113> very crash prone
- # [20:14] <dilvie> slowly?
- # [20:14] <dilvie> I hate IETester.
- # [20:14] <dilvie> I'm hoping that tutti can help get me away from ietester permanently.
- # [20:15] <tw2113> i may take home my xp laptop and install vmware or something just so i can get a copy of Win2k for the sake of native IE6 testing
- # [20:15] <dilvie> If I can run a tutti test server with real old versions running in virtual machines...
- # [20:15] <dilvie> that will make my life so much happier.
- # [20:15] <tw2113> ha, "fork me on github"
- # [20:16] <dilvie> I'd love to turn a tutti box into a way to do automated cross-browser unit testing.
- # [20:16] <dilvie> paul_irish: Are you using tutti for unit tests?
- # [20:16] <tw2113> aye, i should go eat
- # [20:18] <nimbupani> did ya see this paul_irish http://www.mostcontagious.com/section.html?real-time
- # [20:18] <BrianBlakely> I have XP (IE6) and Win7 (IE9) running on two VMWare instances.
- # [20:19] <BrianBlakely> The XP instance wasn't even necessary until Microsoft crapped on Spoon.net
- # [20:19] <BrianBlakely> I miss Spoon.net's IE section ;_;
- # [20:19] <garann> mobile chrome isn't as screwed up as mobile safari, is it?
- # [20:19] <garann> w/r/t contenteditable..
- # [20:20] <BrianBlakely> garann: What is mobile Chrome?
- # [20:20] <miketaylr> i don't believe there is a mobile chrome
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- # [20:20] <miketaylr> unless it's super sekrit
- # [20:20] <nimbupani> its android browser
- # [20:21] <BrianBlakely> nimbupani: Is that even the same codebase, aside from Webkit?
- # [20:21] <miketaylr> oh, no idea. garann: got a test page i can't piont my phone at?
- # [20:21] <miketaylr> *ca
- # [20:21] <miketaylr> n
- # [20:21] * miketaylr sucks at typing
- # [20:21] <garann> i mean mobile-webkit-that-isn't-safari
- # [20:21] <paul_irish> nimbupani: i did.. tweeted it a while back on bplat
- # [20:21] <BrianBlakely> garann: Do you know which channel this is? It's full to the brim with pedantists ;)
- # [20:21] <garann> miketaylr: i don't, but there's a good one on quirksmode
- # [20:22] <miketaylr> ?g quirksmode contenteditable test page
- # [20:22] <bot-t> miketaylr, contentEditable - QuirksMode - http://www.quirksmode.org/dom/execCommand/testpage.html
- # [20:22] <miketaylr> that the one?
- # [20:22] <garann> yeah
- # [20:22] <BrianBlakely> I've never seen that IRC feature - that's mighty fancy
- # [20:22] <miketaylr> http://goo.gl/lToYC.qr
- # [20:23] <garann> BrianBlakely: i did not know that. the description made it sound so friendly!
- # [20:23] <nimbupani> O i see paul_irish
- # [20:24] <nimbupani> its def not pedantic
- # [20:25] <miketaylr> garann: seems broke on my EVO "Internet" app
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- # [20:25] <garann> miketaylr: oh dear.. thanks :(
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- # [20:30] <BrianBlakely> Really excited to learn more about the new webOS devices
- # [20:31] <BrianBlakely> I still port mobile apps to webOS, just because it's so painless
- # [20:32] <BrianBlakely> Here's hoping Palm accrues some respectable marketshare for the most webdev-friendly platform
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- # [20:32] <BrianBlakely> (or that Apple announces HTML5 will be a first-class citizen in iOS 5)
- # [20:33] <dilvie> hmm.. mobile webkit browsers are pretty HTML5 friendly, aren't they?
- # [20:33] <garann> BrianBlakely: that would be nice..
- # [20:34] <BrianBlakely> dilvie: Mobile operating systems are only HTML5 cooperative, however :P
- # [20:35] <BrianBlakely> garann: Yes, but I'm not holding my breath (for either)
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- # [20:44] <tw2113> wooo mom-made chili
- # [20:45] <cgcardona> wow I just realized that localStorage is open to XSS just like a cookie
- # [20:46] <cgcardona> but of course I knew the key in this case cause it was my own site
- # [20:47] <cgcardona> the question is can you figure out the keys for localStorage.getItem() ?
- # [20:47] <cgcardona> or can you cycle through all of them?
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- # [20:54] <miketaylr> yep
- # [20:54] <miketaylr> for loop on localStorage.key(i)
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- # [20:55] <tw2113> i like hearing this from my boss, even if he doesn't know i saw it "It feels good having an office full of dudes that know how to get things done!"
- # [20:55] <cgcardona> miketaylr: i swear i just figured that out :-/
- # [20:55] <miketaylr> hack( localStorage.key(i): localStorage[ localStorage.key(i) ] )
- # [20:55] <cgcardona> nice one
- # [20:55] <cgcardona> ;)
- # [20:55] <miketaylr> heh
- # [20:56] <miketaylr> err, ignoring the obvious syntax error there
- # [20:56] <tw2113> it wasn't an error, you meant to mistype that
- # [20:57] <SlexAxton> ?define sabotage
- # [20:57] <bot-t> SlexAxton, sabotage - (noun) A deliberate action aimed at weakening an enemy through subversion, obstruction, disruption, and/or destruction.
- # [20:57] <tw2113> it's your code, who's to say what it should n shouldn't look like
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- # [21:05] <cgcardona> miketaylr: i got it
- # [21:05] <cgcardona> boom
- # [21:06] <cgcardona> what a cook hack
- # [21:06] * cgcardona tucks that one away ;)
- # [21:06] <miketaylr> >_>
- # [21:06] * Mussious_ is now known as Mussious
- # [21:06] <cgcardona> *cool
- # [21:07] <dilvie> cool? =)
- # [21:07] <cgcardona> wrong word?
- # [21:07] <dilvie> yay! XSS vulnerability!
- # [21:08] <cgcardona> what word would you use?
- # [21:09] <cgcardona> i think it's extremely important to be aware of something like that
- # [21:09] <cgcardona> therefore I think it's really cool that i just figured it out
- # [21:15] <miketaylr> i think http://reddit.com/r/xss is cool
- # [21:16] <cgcardona> didn't know about that one - bookmark3d
- # [21:19] <cgcardona> as a side note - does any one keep js off and approve it on a site by site basis?
- # [21:19] <cgcardona> is it worth the hassle?
- # [21:22] <BrianBlakely> cgcardona: Like wearing a condom over your whole body, IMO
- # [21:22] <cgcardona> quote of tha day much?
- # [21:22] <cgcardona> thats headed straight to twitter my friend
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- # [21:23] <BrianBlakely> Hehe, be sure to @ me (@brianblakely) :P
- # [21:23] <cgcardona> ok
- # [21:23] <BrianBlakely> Cool
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- # [21:37] <paul_irish> ?g css appearance csswg tantek @ SlexAxton
- # [21:37] <bot-t> SlexAxton, Tantek-Mozilla-projects - MozillaWiki - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Tantek-Mozilla-projects
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- # [21:49] <nimbupani> geezz http://cssglobe.com/post/9364/vendor-prefixes-and-web-standards
- # [21:49] <tw2113> hey yoo guis!
- # [21:49] <miketaylr> lol nimbupani
- # [21:50] <nimbupani> totally lolwat-worthy.
- # [21:50] <miketaylr> I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY EXIST BUT WHY DO THEY EXIST
- # [21:50] <nimbupani> :D :D :D :D
- # [21:50] <paul_irish> "Welcome to 2010 Alen."
- # [21:50] <nimbupani> omghtml5-worthy
- # [21:50] <paul_irish> <3 peter gasston
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- # [21:51] <paul_irish> and lars gunther
- # [21:51] <paul_irish> and patrick lauke
- # [21:51] <paul_irish> good people.
- # [21:51] <tw2113> the thing about vendor prefixes....they are targeted at browsers and those browswers' users who are more likely to update
- # [21:52] <tw2113> so in that sense, to me, vendor prefixes are like bandaids on cuts that will heal in time
- # [21:52] <paul_irish> s'a good way to look at it.
- # [21:52] <tw2113> unlike IE hacks which are bandaids being used as tape to hold the freaking thing together
- # [21:52] <paul_irish> and everyone's healed wounds look IDENTICAL
- # [21:52] * Quits: peol (~andree@unaffiliated/peol) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [21:52] <paul_irish> i dont know how far we can stretch this metaphor
- # [21:53] <tw2113> are we using elastic bandaids?
- # [21:53] <tw2113> *badum tsssh*
- # [21:55] <tw2113> "In my opinion, vendor prefixes are unnecessary. If browsers want's to experiment with new properties, what keeps them from doing so and use the "regular" naming conventions?"
- # [21:55] <tw2113> what keeps them? development time for the browser and development time for the standards being used
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- # [21:57] * argonaut29_ is now known as argonaut29
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- # [21:58] <tw2113> back to calendar styling i go
- # [21:58] <nimbupani> http://developer.android.com/guide/webapps/best-practices.html WAT WAT
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- # [22:02] <tw2113> ??????? bacon!
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- # [22:02] <tw2113> i found out how to type bacon symbols on a mac
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- # [23:37] <BrianBlakely> CSS4 needs a "tint" property
- # [23:38] <BrianBlakely> Like to tint the visible pixels of an element
- # [23:38] <BrianBlakely> Like, if I have an icon, and I want to change its color from green to red or somesuch
- # [23:39] <BrianBlakely> tint: #f00 0.5; // Maybe it has a strength setting as well, or maybe it should just require RGBa
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- # [23:43] <cgcardona> interesting idea
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- # Session Close: Thu Dec 30 00:00:00 2010
The end :)