/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2010-12-30 / end

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# Session Start: Thu Dec 30 00:00:00 2010
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:09] <kolor> whats wrong with hsl() ?
# [00:09] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113asw@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Leaving)
# [00:10] <nimbupani> who says anything is wrong with hsl?
# [00:10] <bckenny> it smells funny
# [00:10] <kolor> i mean guy asked for a tint()
# [00:10] <kolor> why not use hsl
# [00:11] <BrianBlakely> kolor: Hi, HSL is just a way of describing a color
# [00:12] <BrianBlakely> "tint" is a way of altering an existing element's overall color
# [00:13] <BrianBlakely> Its text, background, etc
# [00:13] <nimbupani> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tint-tone-shade.svg
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# [00:13] <nimbupani> bckenny is a hsl-racist
# [00:13] <BrianBlakely> nimbupani: This is what I was saying before
# [00:13] <BrianBlakely> SS4 needs a "tint" property
# [00:13] <BrianBlakely> 5:35
# [00:13] <BrianBlakely> Like to tint the visible pixels of an element
# [00:13] <BrianBlakely> 5:35
# [00:13] <BrianBlakely> Like, if I have an icon, and I want to change its color from green to red or somesuch
# [00:13] <BrianBlakely> 5:36
# [00:13] <BrianBlakely> tint: irc://irc.freenode.net/#f00 0.5; // Maybe it has a strength setting as well, or maybe it should just require RGBa
# [00:14] <BrianBlakely> CSS4*
# [00:15] <nimbupani> well changing color from green to red is hardly tinting.
# [00:22] <BrianBlakely> Well shucks nimbupani, call it "hue" then
# [00:23] <nimbupani> yeah i hope calc property gets the attention back.
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# [00:32] <Etherael> What's the situation with html5 and customised scroll areas, such as in html4 you would have used a styled div with extensive customised javascript to pull off?
# [00:34] <BrianBlakely> Etherael: No change
# [00:35] <BrianBlakely> nimbupani: I'd like to see something to the tune of — width: 10%; height: elem.width; — for perfectly square elements
# [00:35] <BrianBlakely> nimbupani: That might be possible with a revised calc
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# [00:37] <nimbupani> i hope it happens BrianBlakely there are people who resist adding such calculations in CSS
# [00:38] <BrianBlakely> nimbupani: I personally think .style should be excluded from JS use as much as is feasible
# [00:39] <BrianBlakely> BTW, one handy thing I've been doing for square elements — padding: 0 10%; width: 0; height: 0;
# [00:39] <BrianBlakely> Of course, this is for specific purposes, not for elements with visible content
# [00:40] <BrianBlakely> Mostly just image replacement (fueled by background-size)
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# [00:41] <BrianBlakely> Oh, actually the padding value should be padding: 10%;
# [00:41] <BrianBlakely> That will always use the width of the parent as a reference, so the top/bottom values will match the left/right
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# [00:57] <Etherael> That sounds a little ambiguous due to order of evaluation though.
# [00:58] <Etherael> What you want is for the inherited property to be equal to the evaluated amount of the parent property, but it might be misinterpreted to mean that you want the inhereted property to be a copy of the parent property, thus evaluated separately.
# [01:04] <BrianBlakely> Etherael: Yeah, there would need to be a distinction between the computed style and the property value
# [01:05] <BrianBlakely> Getting up-to-date computed style is a glaring hole in CSS (well, one of them :P)
# [01:05] <Etherael> Maybe something like you can do in various languages where you can distinguish between a property and a method.
# [01:05] <Etherael> element.value element[:value]
# [01:07] <BrianBlakely> Time to go home, laytah
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# [02:27] <grantg> Is the canvas 2d api covered here?
# [02:27] <grantg> I'm wondering if the canvas api could ever include a color palette api.
# [02:28] <grantg> After working with doing a javascript gameboy color emulator, it got me thinking.
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# [02:28] <grantg> It can allow you to change coloring of multiple tiles on the fly, so why not use it as a 2d api for canvas?
# [02:29] <grantg> anyone have an opinion on this?
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# [02:30] <grantg> (Also, do NOT ask me for a ROM of Pokemon). :/
# [02:31] <grantg> My current work is focused on my WIP js GBA emulator, but the GBC emulator is @ http://www.grantgalitz.org/gameboy/
# [02:32] <grantg> And use Firefox 4 with it, since only firefox 4 right now has a native audio api.
# [02:32] <grantg> Audio kind of works in chrome, but through a hacky and slow data uri trick that involves creating wav pcm data in js and packaging it through a special way.
# [02:33] <tw2113> give them time, it'll all come around in the end
# [02:33] <grantg> tw2113: ?
# [02:34] <grantg> tw2113: I'm asking if there should or could be a color palette api added to the current 2d api.
# [02:35] <tw2113> i was just talking about browser support for X browser
# [02:35] <tw2113> :D
# [02:35] <grantg> Where mappings to the paletting could be done by matching a pixel-component range to a platte to only target x pixels.
# [02:35] <grantg> similar to how masking is done for green screens.
# [02:36] <grantg> But make it so it can be wired in real api, so to possibly be hardware accelerated later on.
# [02:37] <grantg> tw2113: Right now I compute *all* the graphics in javascript.
# [02:37] <grantg> Since the canvas api isn't good enough.
# [02:37] <grantg> Since I need to do things super fast and at one scan line at a time.
# [02:37] <tw2113> :P
# [02:38] <grantg> tw2113: There is a webkit audio api in the works, but it's nothing like the mozilla audio api found in firefox 4.
# [02:38] <grantg> I personally think the webkit audio api sucks for outputting audio.
# [02:38] <grantg> Since it's async.
# [02:39] <grantg> b/c of event handlers being used as the method(s) to write out audio to the system.
# [02:39] <grantg> FF lets you pass your audio array directly to an api function to output audio.
# [02:40] <paul_irish> grantg: you should get on the audio xg and offer your feedback
# [02:40] <grantg> webkit audio makes you have to have a whole audio chaining system going and have a stupid event handler to do something so simple.
# [02:40] <grantg> paul_irish: yeah
# [02:41] <grantg> pauk_irish: The data uri trick I did gave me nightmares, a better way is a must.
# [02:41] <grantg> Though it works in all browsers except IE.
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# [02:41] <grantg> (doesn't work in IE9 as far as I know)
# [02:42] <grantg> paul_irish: Does chrome have typed arrays JITTED yet?
# [02:42] <grantg> Seems that chrome is way slower than firefox 4 on my emulators.
# [02:43] <grantg> specifically Uint8Array and Float32Array
# [02:44] <grantg> Uint8Array is used for the entire memory sub-system, except the CPU registers (A, B, C, D, E, F, H, L, PC, SP) because the CPU registers are explicitely targeted with handling funcs.
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# [02:44] <grantg> Is there a js audio api channel here?
# [02:44] <grantg> Or shalt I do a 90s styled email? :/
# [02:45] <paul_irish> i'm not sure but yeah i saw some perf tests that indicated the typed arrays were kinda slow
# [02:45] <paul_irish> email fo sho
# [02:45] <grantg> paul_irish: typed arrays are 40% faster than normal arrays for me.
# [02:45] <grantg> in FF4
# [02:45] <grantg> slower in chrome only.
# [02:45] <paul_irish> some of them are over in #audio on irc.mozilla.org
# [02:45] <grantg> I was just there.
# [02:45] <paul_irish> but an email to the xg would reach chris, which is who matters :)
# [02:46] <paul_irish> ah
# [02:46] <grantg> Chris doesn't hang out in #audio though. :/
# [02:46] <paul_irish> yeah i figured
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# [02:46] <grantg> And I think he's the one doing webkit audio.
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# [02:46] <paul_irish> yuppp
# [02:46] <paul_irish> whats your last name btw?
# [02:47] <grantg> People are hell bent on saying webkit api is superior to the moz api. :/
# [02:47] <grantg> galitz
# [02:47] <grantg> hence the g in my nick
# [02:47] <grantg> and my URL
# [02:47] <grantg> :P
# [02:47] <paul_irish> got it :)
# [02:47] <grantg> paul_irish: Debugging roms right now
# [02:47] <tw2113> it makes so much sense now
# [02:47] <grantg> debug hell now
# [02:48] <tw2113> grantg i bet you can't tell what paul's last name is
# [02:48] <grantg> lol
# [02:48] <grantg> irishimo. :P
# [02:48] <paul_irish> grantg: you've seen dynamicaudio.js right?
# [02:48] <grantg> Yeah, but I'm a no plugin guy
# [02:49] <grantg> I HATE flash.
# [02:49] <paul_irish> hahah i can dig it :)
# [02:49] <grantg> You should see what I did to get it working in browsers that DON'T support putImageData or canvas entirely.
# [02:49] <tw2113> if i could, i'd make Lady Gaga play whenever paul entered the IRC room
# [02:50] <grantg> http://www.grantgalitz.org/gameboy/js/other/BMPCanvas.js
# [02:50] <grantg> Does kind of what I did for audio, but with creating raw BMP data instead
# [02:50] <grantg> And I do tiling to not go over the IE8 32kb limit
# [02:51] <grantg> slow as hell (0.5 fps) in IE8, but it works once you click through the bizillion slow script warnings.
# [02:53] <grantg> paul_irish: TIL there's an HTML4.01 media player. :D
# [02:54] <grantg> in js
# [02:55] <grantg> Anyhow, I'm looking at doing a fallback as a java app.
# [02:55] <paul_irish> intersting.
# [02:55] <paul_irish> let me know when you do.
# [02:56] <paul_irish> i'm big into fallbacks.
# [02:56] <grantg> But the data uri trick will stay, unless the java fallback is specified in the settings.
# [02:56] <grantg> paul irish: My current config - mozAudio => webkit audio => data uri
# [02:57] <grantg> paul_irish: It's a shame typed arrays aren't jitted yet in webkit.
# [02:57] <grantg> I wonder how fast it'd be in chrome if jitted.
# [02:57] <paul_irish> http://code.google.com/p/v8/issues/entry file it!
# [02:58] <paul_irish> and tell them your use case on why it matters
# [02:58] <grantg> heh, I should also make my stuff benchmarks, since it's cpu emulation in js
# [02:59] <grantg> Order of perf as I see it: Firefox 4, Chrome, Opera, IE9, Safari 5
# [03:00] <grantg> Though IE9 fails on a core statement in the interpreter loop.
# [03:00] <grantg> Since IE9 I guess does some sort of dead code removal on a rarely used, but important, if statement for the program counter bug unique to classic gameboys.
# [03:01] * grantg is disappoint, IE9
# [03:01] <grantg> Also WTF IE9 with no WAVE PCM support? I mean it's Microsoft's codec!
# [03:01] <paul_irish> that's pretty weak
# [03:03] <grantg> As far as I can tell, it fails when determining whether wave pcm can play by the mime type by the canPlayType method.
# [03:04] <grantg> I tried using bgsound, but that just crashed IE9 preview 7.
# [03:05] <grantg> Also a stretched canvas is slow to blit to on anything other than FF4.
# [03:05] <grantg> Even IE9 is slow as shit when trying to render via putImageData
# [03:06] <grantg> U_U
# [03:06] <grantg> <endRant>
# [03:06] <grantg> </endRant>
# [03:07] <grantg> hmm, I need to remove the note that I'm using some code from jsGB
# [03:07] <grantg> I rewrote the little bit I took from it.
# [03:08] <grantg> Ever since I rewrote the entire CPU emulation.
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# [03:08] * grantg gives opcode LD SP, n the evil look.
# [03:09] <grantg> paul_irish: Wait til GBA is out.
# [03:09] <grantg> ARM7TDMI CPU emulation FTW.
# [03:09] <paul_irish> hotttt
# [03:09] <grantg> in js, no plugins
# [03:09] <grantg> Still tooling the opcodes.
# [03:09] <grantg> I hatz teh conditional breaks.
# [03:10] <grantg> paul
# [03:10] <grantg> I might do a NES emu in js as well
# [03:10] <grantg> Since JSNES is way too slow
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# [03:11] <grantg> I mean my GBC emu is faster than it (fullspeed on my mac) and does more MIPs than a NES
# [03:11] <paul_irish> innnnteresting
# [03:11] <paul_irish> get ben firsch in a perf war :)
# [03:11] <paul_irish> well holler when it is.. i'd love to do a spotlight on html5rocks on it.
# [03:11] <paul_irish> and connect you to the jsconf, txjs folks.
# [03:12] <grantg> Probably b/c ben muddied up the memory.
# [03:12] <grantg> paul_irish: My trick was assigning the memory handling functions to an array, and depending on what address is being read, a specific handling func is called
# [03:13] <grantg> Instead of an ugly switch case doing a lookup every read and write
# [03:13] <grantg> that goes 5 levels deep
# [03:13] <grantg> :/
# [03:13] <grantg> paul_irish: TIL there is the whole source code in one file: http://www.grantgalitz.org/gameboy/js/GameBoyCore.js
# [03:15] <grantg> paul_irish: Anyone can do what ever with it, showcase it, mod it themselves, etc.
# [03:15] <paul_irish> intense.
# [03:15] <grantg> It's open source and free to look at. :D
# [03:16] <grantg> fav part is the GBC boot ROM in one js array.
# [03:16] <grantg> :D
# [03:16] <grantg> VBA doesn't even have that
# [03:16] <grantg> (VisualBoyAdvance)
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# [03:17] <grantg> paul_irish: If you're wondering how files can be loaded in, it supports the File API
# [03:18] <grantg> So you can load ROMs into it directly from your comp
# [03:18] <grantg> Though you first need to get the roms from a site like http://www.doperoms.com/roms/Gameboy_And_Gbc/.html
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# [03:18] <grantg> Well, legally, you need to dump the roms from games you own yourself. :/
# [03:19] <grantg> heh, the boot rom wasn't easy to get (thank costis at gbdev).
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# [03:20] <grantg> Shit like that is hidden from normal cpu reads, and requires serious hackery to get (playing doctor on your GB's motherboard).
# [03:20] <paul_irish> i was hoping for drag n drop file reader action :)
# [03:21] <grantg> eh
# [03:21] <grantg> click, file, go to open as, then click local file
# [03:21] <paul_irish> drag n drop!
# [03:21] <paul_irish> do it do it
# [03:21] <grantg> What if someone accidentally dropped an image or something?
# [03:21] <paul_irish> you could even make it look like the top of the gameboy as you drag in
# [03:21] <grantg> :P
# [03:22] <grantg> paul_irish: It runs on mobile safari, forgot to mention that. :P
# [03:22] <grantg> like 5 fps on an iphone 4
# [03:22] <paul_irish> nice
# [03:23] <grantg> Though you need to load in roms on mobile safari through the url address method (ajax'd in through a proxy script).
# [03:23] <grantg> paul_irish: I'm porting it to java and c++
# [03:23] <grantg> So it can run as an applet as well, and as an iphone and android app
# [03:24] <grantg> Since the current iOS GBC emus suck big time.
# [03:24] <grantg> One currently for the iphone even crashes on a test rom. LOL
# [03:24] <grantg> Apparently gameboy4iphone hangs on a HALT opcode test.
# [03:25] <grantg> and locks up the iphone.
# [03:25] <grantg> and the G.B.C. A.D. one just plainly sucks at accuracy.
# [03:26] <paul_irish> shitty
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# [03:29] <grantg> Though thankfuly other people are picking up fixing old emulators and/or writing new ones as well.
# [03:29] <grantg> *thankfully
# [03:29] <grantg> BGB is gonna get an update.
# [03:29] <grantg> after half a decade. <_<
# [03:29] <grantg> So windows users won't be left out in the cold.
# [03:30] <grantg> paul_irish: I had base code for an n64 emu, probably gonna redo it.
# [03:31] <paul_irish> hahah
# [03:31] <paul_irish> that's a hell of a todo list.
# [03:31] <grantg> I need to get dynarec code going for the MIPS r4300i.
# [03:31] <grantg> and webgl working right.
# [03:31] <grantg> paul_irish: Another todo - SNES
# [03:31] <grantg> xD
# [03:31] <paul_irish> but of course.
# [03:32] <grantg> DS is possible
# [03:32] <grantg> TIL there is a Nintendo DS being run in javascript + html5.
# [03:32] <grantg> ;)
# [03:34] <grantg> If anyone is wondering, all the GB/GBC pokemon roms run in the js GBC emulator.
# [03:34] <grantg> heheh
# [03:35] <grantg> paul_irish: There's a js project that already exists that I think does MIPS
# [03:35] <grantg> jsMIPS or such
# [03:35] <paul_irish> ?g jsmips
# [03:35] <bot-t> paul_irish, JSMIPS - http://codu.org/projects/jsmips/
# [03:35] <grantg> I need to see how close it is to what I'm doing
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# [03:36] <grantg> RCP is a bitch though with N64 emulation.
# [03:36] <grantg> Might just stick with HLE like any other N64 emu.
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# [03:38] <grantg> paul_irish: I find it funny I just did the first GameBoy Color emulator in js and I'm already moving on the js GBA and other platforms.
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# [03:39] <grantg> There are shitty GB (non-color) emus that hardly work in js, but nothing even this close or with sound.
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# [03:39] <grantg> Not a demo. :)
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# [03:40] <grantg> full thing. :D
# [03:40] <paul_irish> boom boom
# [03:40] <grantg> ?
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# [03:45] * grantg is redlining at 85% CPU usage
# [03:45] <grantg> Still full speed. :/
# [03:46] <grantg> paul_irish: Also, it's an offline webpage. :)
# [03:47] <grantg> I maketh HTML5 and JS bleed.
# [03:47] <grantg> with localStorage usage
# [03:48] <paul_irish> thats hot
# [03:48] <grantg> It falls under many html5 new tech groups. :P
# [03:50] <grantg> offline + file access + multimedia + performance + storage + graphics + presentation
# [03:50] <grantg> :/
# [03:52] <grantg> One thing that needs to be added to js: Better bitwise
# [03:52] <grantg> You can't type single vars, only give it a value
# [03:52] <grantg> I'd like a ubyte
# [03:52] <grantg> or a u_int_16
# [03:52] <grantg> :P
# [03:53] <grantg> I use typed arrays on the arrays though of course
# [03:54] <grantg> paul_irish: Drag n drop, eh?
# [03:54] <grantg> Can do I guess
# [03:56] <grantg> Anyhow, any word on what I asked when I came in here?
# [03:56] <grantg> a palette system for canvas 2d?
# [03:56] <grantg> As an extension to the api.
# [03:57] <grantg> So things like green screening or color manipulation to multiple pixels at once becomes even easier.
# [03:59] <grantg> like have an event handler that is given the CanvasPixelArray and an array filled with info on the pixels that were found to be a match
# [03:59] <grantg> And the event handler can do the processing
# [04:00] <grantg> but the palette is a matching for the values in the range
# [04:00] <grantg> to target specific pixels
# [04:00] <grantg> Or a direct color conversion could be passed to the api, to skip the event handler entirely.
# [04:01] <grantg> So things like recoloring a bg tile can be done for all the target pixels at once.
# [04:01] <grantg> without having to have a js script sniff out the target pixels manually.
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# [04:04] <grantg> My next question is to provide helper api to webgl for the matrix math.
# [04:04] <grantg> Important enough to add to webgl?
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# [04:12] <grantg> heh, google chrome crashed on the html5rocks cube demo @ http://studio.html5rocks.com/#Cube
# [04:12] <grantg> Turning it too much blew it up. :/
# [04:13] <grantg> paul_irish: Does the chrome store really have flash apps?
# [04:14] <paul_irish> i dont think this helps but check out http://peternitsch.net/bitmapdata.js/
# [04:14] <paul_irish> yup it does
# [04:14] <grantg> ewwww
# [04:14] <grantg> I would have said, if you want to be accepted here, translate your flash crap to js
# [04:14] <grantg> since there's webgl now
# [04:15] <paul_irish> grantg: yeah i think a lot of matrix shit should be added to the Math object
# [04:15] <grantg> yeah
# [04:15] <paul_irish> so everyone isnt including sylvester in their shit
# [04:15] <grantg> so true
# [04:15] <grantg> + it could accelerate the ops
# [04:15] <grantg> gtg
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# [04:39] <bckenny> ha
# [04:39] <bckenny> no more on Math!
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# [12:47] <bx2> hi all - is there any way to detect if user is using ie. Opera browser ? (besides JS of course)
# [12:48] <jetienne> bx2: ie got funky "if"
# [12:48] <jetienne> http://www.javascriptkit.com/howto/cc2.shtml <- this is what i was talking about
# [12:49] <bx2> ok I know about IE
# [12:49] <bx2> but what without Opera
# [12:49] <bx2> *about
# [12:50] <jetienne> bx2: dunno any, but im not authority
# [12:50] <jetienne> bx2: #opera may know
# [12:50] <bx2> :) I know about JS way, but was wondering if there is any native html feature for that - I doubt that thou, but it will do no harm to ask :)
# [12:52] <Ms2ger> No
# [12:52] <Ms2ger> And you probably don't need it either
# [12:52] <jetienne> bx2: from a standard pov, the feature detection is better than the browser detection.
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# [13:05] <sean`> sup JKarsrud
# [13:06] <JKarsrud> nothing much, sean`
# [13:06] <JKarsrud> just updating my CV before next week
# [13:07] <JKarsrud> sup with you?
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# [13:15] <sean`> why the update
# [13:16] <sean`> not much, just chillin @ facebook
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# [14:47] <JKarsrud> sean`: Doing some consulting work for work, and they needed an updated CV. Just had to deliver some transfer papers for a car I sold, so I was afk :)
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# [16:43] <tw2113> any of you know if html5 stuff works even without the doctype?
# [16:43] <nimbupani> of course they do!
# [16:43] <tw2113> just double checking
# [16:44] <tw2113> i have a form to make today
# [16:44] <nimbupani> but their working is suspect in browsers that go into quirks mode without any doctype
# [16:45] <tw2113> only when lacking a doctype? or even with the old ones?
# [16:45] <nimbupani> well when using old ones you should make sure you are using one that triggers standards mode
# [16:45] <nimbupani> coz quirks mode introduces its own set of problems as that mode was designed to render webpages like it was 1996.
# [16:46] <tw2113> wouldn't they just default to text in those cases?
# [16:46] <nimbupani> ?g truth about doctypes
# [16:46] <bot-t> nimbupani, The Truth about Doctypes | Nimbupani Designs - http://nimbupani.com/the-truth-about-doctypes.html
# [16:48] <tw2113> looks like the site it'd be for is xhtml transitional
# [16:48] <Evet> could you recommend a framework to emulate cli?
# [16:49] <tw2113> hmmm, i may just suck it up and use all text fields :(
# [16:49] <nimbupani> no why?
# [16:50] <nimbupani> all you have is an extra attribute.
# [16:50] <tw2113> hmmm
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# [18:34] <dilvie> Does boilerplate reset the new HTML5 pseudo-classes for form validation? :valid, :invalid, :optional, :required, etc...?
# [18:34] <nimbupani> it doesnt "reset"
# [18:35] <nimbupani> just provides basic default styles for input and textarea
# [18:35] <nimbupani> for :invalid.
# [18:35] <dilvie> ok.
# [18:36] <dilvie> Thanks for the tip. =) We need a full reset because we don't want the default browser styling messing with our visual presentation.
# [18:37] <nimbupani> whats a "full reset"?
# [18:38] <dilvie> some browsers do css shadows, others red border color, others add little icons...
# [18:39] <dilvie> I mean full reset of all that garbage.
# [18:39] <dilvie> I don't want the default browser behaviors.
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# [18:40] <tw2113> you want to remove the accessability features?
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# [18:40] <tw2113> me liked cgcardona when he was still cardona507
# [18:40] <tw2113> *whistles* oh hey
# [18:40] <cgcardona> I'm all grown up now
# [18:40] <tw2113> 12?
# [18:40] <dilvie> tw2113: I want to remove the default browser styling of the new form pseudo selectors. We have our own styles that clash with the browser defaults. =)
# [18:40] <cgcardona> when I became a man I put away childish things ;)
# [18:40] <cgcardona> heh
# [18:42] <cgcardona> the internet connection at my house is soooo slow it's seriously an issue
# [18:42] <nimbupani> its an interesting question dilvie
# [18:42] <cgcardona> the weird thing is some days its great and some days it's really slow
# [18:42] <cgcardona> i don't know whats up
# [18:42] <nimbupani> i wonder if we can provide a full-fledged reset.
# [18:42] <dilvie> that would be nice.
# [18:43] <dilvie> We're already using boilerplate. =)
# [18:43] <dilvie> This is for production use at Zumba.com. Millions of people looking at our shiny new HTML5 forms.
# [18:44] <cgcardona> cool
# [18:44] <cgcardona> or is that the wrong word again :-/
# [18:44] <tw2113> wow, according to this article, IE has more uses than downloading chrome/firefox/opera
# [18:44] <tw2113> http://www.theonion.com/articles/internet-explorer-makes-desperate-overture-to-beco,6338/
# [18:46] <dilvie> cgcardona: I hope cool is the right word this time. ;)
# [18:47] <tw2113> i like that the fields default to text when there's no browser support for it
# [18:47] <nimbupani> the only invalid default UI i have seen is the use of box-shadow
# [18:48] <nimbupani> and boilerplate resets that.
# [18:48] <dilvie> yay!
# [18:48] <dilvie> did you check Opera?
# [18:48] <dilvie> last time I looked it was adding stupid icons.
# [18:48] <dilvie> Maybe they took that out.
# [18:48] <nimbupani> yes they have a new UI now
# [18:49] <dilvie> Also, ff 4 beta was doing red borders.
# [18:50] <dilvie> I'll upgrade my Opera. =)
# [18:51] <dilvie> Opera 11: check.
# [18:52] <dilvie> Yay! Stupid icons are gone in Opera.
# [18:52] <dilvie> phwew.
# [18:59] <tw2113> now to just make everyone upgrade to the latest :P
# [19:02] <dilvie> Seriously.
# [19:02] <dilvie> Actually, I think Opera has auto-updates.
# [19:02] <nimbupani> no it doesnt :(
# [19:03] <nimbupani> but you can set it i think
# [19:03] <dilvie> oh crap.
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# [19:07] <dilvie> nimbupani: Thanks for investigating. =)
# [19:07] <nimbupani> no worries dilvie!
# [19:09] <dilvie> I'm trying to get the company to invest in a cross-browser emulation server so our design guys can see how this stuff renders on all our target browsers at once.
# [19:09] <dilvie> That will be nice. =)
# [19:10] * tw2113 throws up the mandatory "sites don't need to look the same in every browser" arguement
# [19:10] * cgcardona agrees
# [19:10] <dilvie> tw2113: Agreed, but they do need to look GOOD in all our target browsers.
# [19:11] * tw2113 also notes that IE6 is no longer a browser, just a monstrosity
# [19:11] <dilvie> LOL
# [19:11] <dilvie> yeah.
# [19:11] <dilvie> No argument there.
# [19:12] <cgcardona> +1234
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# [19:12] <tw2113> ironically..i'm attempting to install Windows 2000 just for a native version of IE6 for testing some stuff
# [19:13] <dilvie> sadly, there are 15-20 times as many visitors using IE6 as Opera for us.
# [19:13] <cgcardona> sad indeed
# [19:13] <dilvie> stupid users.
# [19:13] <tw2113> just a VM
# [19:14] <dilvie> I'm planning to set up a VM server running a bunch of virtualized browser environments -- planning to install IE6 native. Any tips from other people who have done the same?
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# [19:29] <tw2113> i wonder how well Win2k will handle wireless
# [19:32] <cgcardona> good question
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# [19:42] <tw2113> hahahaaha, cgcardona i got the install up and running, it's giving me IE5 :D
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# [19:43] <cgcardona> epic!
# [19:43] <cgcardona> screenshots! I demand screenshot!
# [19:44] <tw2113> no internet with it, probably due to major wireless lack
# [19:44] <tw2113> i'll have to play around a bit more with it at home later when i can get a wired into it
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# [19:55] <cgcardona> the web must have been a sad place before firebug and the dev tools that have followed
# [19:55] <cgcardona> i can't seem to find the link but I read that firebug is about to change
# [19:56] <cgcardona> they are going to create a new model for debugging js instead of stepping through line by line
# [19:57] <cgcardona> fire bug did so much to change the world I am stoked to see what they come up with
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# [21:07] <tw2113> hee, tomorrow should be interesting
# [21:07] <tw2113> i was told to work from home due to bad weather coming in
# [21:08] <prgmrBill> I've done that all week
# [21:08] <prgmrBill> today is the first day I came in
# [21:09] <tw2113> hey! Chance of Snow: 90%
# [21:10] <cgcardona> really?!
# [21:10] <cgcardona> i guess I forgot it was winter :p
# [21:11] <tw2113> you have to go outside to remember that, cgcardona
# [21:11] <cgcardona> :p
# [21:12] <cgcardona> oh I go outside - picture me swimmin here http://goo.gl/PUhpe
# [21:12] <cgcardona> boom
# [21:12] <tw2113> where do you live again?
# [21:12] <cgcardona> kauai
# [21:12] <cgcardona> the northernmost hawaiian island
# [21:13] <tw2113> ah
# [21:13] <tw2113> yeah, that explains your constant warm weather
# [21:13] <cgcardona> the garden island :D
# [21:14] <cgcardona> the weather on the radio is like a joke here - every day it says "mid 80's partly cloudy partly sunny 50% chance of rain" :-/
# [21:14] <tw2113> i'm sure you get tired of that
# [21:14] <cgcardona> yeah it's rough sometimes
# [21:14] <cgcardona> that's why i retreat into this dark cave and stare at this monitor
# [21:14] <cgcardona> it makes me feel safe
# [21:14] <tw2113> tomorrow's high? 11F
# [21:14] <cgcardona> ouch
# [21:15] <tw2113> i've been in much worse
# [21:15] <tw2113> upwards of -40F with windchill before
# [21:15] <cgcardona> dang
# [21:15] <tw2113> you'd be an instant ice cicle
# [21:16] <tw2113> 34F right now, and yet i'm still eating ice cream
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# [21:17] <cgcardona> haha
# [21:17] <cgcardona> nice
# [21:22] <tw2113> sadly, i don't think a table is the most semantic way to lay out some form elements for searching an event calendar
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# [21:36] * tw2113 points at cgcardona and says "just dance"
# [21:36] <tw2113> yah i'm a bit weird
# [21:37] * cgcardona does the electric slide
# [21:37] <cgcardona> oh yeah
# [21:37] <cgcardona> boogie woogie woogie
# [21:37] <tw2113> why do i think it'd be funny to see paul irish dance
# [21:37] <tw2113> plus where is he? he's awol
# [21:37] <cgcardona> "It's electric!"
# [21:37] <cgcardona> he got pulled into tron during the 3d viewing at google is my suspicion
# [21:38] <tw2113> he's becoming part of modernizr
# [21:38] <cgcardona> suspicion
# [21:38] <cgcardona> what a funny word
# [21:39] <cgcardona> it doesn't seem spelled right if you read it over and over
# [21:39] <cgcardona> heh
# [21:39] <tw2113> suspicion
# [21:39] <tw2113> maybe
# [21:39] <tw2113> google says we're right
# [21:39] <tw2113> and we trust the google to not be evil
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# [21:40] <cgcardona> or suspicous
# [21:40] <cgcardona> so we're good
# [21:41] <tw2113> granted my dad and brother think google is failing at not being evil
# [21:45] <cgcardona> i don't think your dad and brother are alone
# [21:45] <tw2113> probably not
# [21:45] <tw2113> i made attempts to clean up my yahoo mail ID
# [21:46] <tw2113> part of me just wanting to go against the grain with gmail and all, but still use my gmail accounts too
# [21:46] <tw2113> the other part is legacy with yahoo
# [21:46] <cgcardona> gmail is the best around
# [21:46] <cgcardona> and fwiw i will forever love what wave could have been
# [21:46] <tw2113> didn't apache pick that up
# [21:47] <cgcardona> they did
# [21:47] <tw2113> makes you wonder what they may do with it
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# [22:26] <cgcardona> as long as it's open source it's fair game for anyone to use which is cool
# [22:32] <dilvie> Why do tutti connections drop all the time?
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# Session Close: Fri Dec 31 00:00:00 2010

The end :)