/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-01-07 / end

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# Session Start: Fri Jan 07 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:00] <antonkovalyov> hey, is there a way to get normal innerHTML for html5 tag (like <details>) in IE? right now it seems like innerHTML returns "" because IE transforms <details>sometext</details> into <details/>
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# [01:15] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: are you using the html5shiv?
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# [01:23] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, nope
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# [01:25] <antonkovalyov> i need to read its code first
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# [01:25] <antonkovalyov> can't put anything to the embed :(
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# [01:34] <felcom> so say i have a sidebar full of various blog modules, in html5 i can't use aside for a sidebar so would I just use a traditional <div> and just worry about the semantics of the individual modules?
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# [01:38] <felcom> "The <section> tag defines sections in a document. Such as chapters, headers, footers, or any other sections of the document." what the heck kind of definition is that?
# [01:38] <felcom> pretty sure they used sections to define sections
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# [01:46] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: basically you need to do document.createElement('details') before a details tag is ever seen by the IE engine
# [01:46] <paul_irish> if you want said details tag to have a legit innerHTML
# [01:48] <antonkovalyov> oh i see. thanks, paul_irish
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# [02:01] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, (if you're curious) github meetup is next thursday so i am going to move js pub night one week
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# [02:08] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: ah aiight
# [02:08] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: is there a page for the github meetup or just on twitter
# [02:08] <paul_irish> i gotta talk to themmmmmm,
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# [02:08] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, they don't have any page and they announce like a day before. :) but since their office is upstairs i just went there
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# [02:09] <paul_irish> smooth
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# [02:11] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, do you receive my emails from meetup? the site is so confusing
# [02:11] <antonkovalyov> meetup.com*
# [02:14] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: i filter them all to RSS so.... maybe?
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# [02:15] <antonkovalyov> i see :)
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# [02:23] <paul_irish> btw'z http://developers.whatwg.org/
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# [02:24] <kurrent> paul_irish: I love the 'your browser doesnt support canvas' link on mothereffinghsl
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# [02:25] <paul_irish> kurrent: hahah
# [02:25] <paul_irish> good old eabod
# [02:25] <kurrent> the mspaint image is gone though from the link :)
# [02:25] <kurrent> :) rather
# [02:25] <kurrent> :(
# [02:25] <uokesita> what irc client can i ue on mac?
# [02:26] <paul_irish> OMG its gone
# [02:26] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [02:26] <antonkovalyov> i had to load my vm
# [02:26] <paul_irish> NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
# [02:26] <uokesita> :(
# [02:26] <antonkovalyov> to check that link with ie
# [02:27] * paul_irish updates it to http://noyoueatabagofdicks.com/
# [02:27] <kurrent> lol
# [02:27] <antonkovalyov> oh god
# [02:27] <antonkovalyov> :)
# [02:27] <kurrent> one eabod domain isn't enough
# [02:27] <kurrent> thank god we have more
# [02:28] <paul_irish> i think ill register another
# [02:28] <paul_irish> just to be safe
# [02:28] <zachleat> I want to know how many domains paul_irish owns
# [02:29] <paul_irish> not a lot! maybe <15
# [02:29] <kurrent> goeatabagofdicks.com
# [02:29] <kurrent> ...taken! :(
# [02:29] <kurrent> but of course
# [02:30] <paul_irish> eatabagofdicks-platinumedition.com
# [02:30] <paul_irish> fucking 3D transforms the fuck out of that bag of dicks.
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# [02:32] <paul_irish> davidwalsh wouldnt appreciate my potty mouth.
# [02:32] * paul_irish washing mouth out with soap
# [02:32] <davidwalsh> what the eff did you say paul_irish ?
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# [02:35] <paul_irish> permutations of "eff" but with more oomph!
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# [02:38] <zachleat> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/361291/3ddix.png
# [02:38] <zachleat> asciiiiiiii
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# [02:40] <NiftyLettuce> how do I escape the ::selection tag in SASS? ie: : { &:-moz-selection gives me an error since its thinking its a mixin
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# [02:46] <NiftyLettuce> paul_irish: you have any idea on how to escape a mixin in sass? like -moz-selection has a :: before, I tried using backslash to no avail
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# [02:53] <paul_irish> i dont use sass really
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# [02:53] <paul_irish> i just like it.
# [02:53] <paul_irish> zachleat: hahahah omg dude
# [02:54] <paul_irish> so awesomeeee
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# [02:54] <paul_irish> is that actual cappucino?
# [02:54] <zachleat> Put that on a unicode snowman and you have a site that MAKES CASH MONEY
# [02:54] <zachleat> naw, aristo jquery ui
# [02:54] <paul_irish> hot shit
# [02:54] <zachleat> yeah that theme is badass
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# [02:56] <paul_irish> alrra: thx for all the input speech detail.. i'm using it right now
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# [03:02] <Noxxy> not really html5, but is there any way to make the rendering on @font-face look any... nicer?
# [03:02] <zachleat> what os/browser?
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# [03:02] <Noxxy> windows, chrome
# [03:03] <zachleat> Yeah, I've noticed that too. Have you tried playing around with your cleartype settings?
# [03:03] <Noxxy> eh, i'm avoiding it. i wouldn't be able to tell every person visiting the website to adjust their settings too lol
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# [03:04] <zachleat> Yeah, other than that I don't know, sorry.
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# [03:05] <Noxxy> thanks anyway =p. I'll probably just fall back to an image anyway, more controled and nicer looking.
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# [03:24] <paul_irish> Noxxy: where are the fonts from
# [03:24] <paul_irish> google/typekit/fontsquirrel/etc
# [03:24] <Noxxy> font squirrel
# [03:25] <paul_irish> you can try a text-shadow: 0 0 1px hsla(0,0%,30%,0.4);
# [03:25] <paul_irish> or os
# [03:25] <Noxxy> Hm, very good idea.
# [03:27] <Noxxy> works too :)
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# [03:33] <paul_irish> boooom
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# [04:46] <paul_irish> nimbupani: we had that plan to release a 1.0 'n all huh
# [04:47] <paul_irish> i'm AFK all this weekend
# [04:47] <paul_irish> lady's birthday weekend in sonoma
# [04:47] <nimbupani> :/ :/
# [04:47] <paul_irish> you can rls without me!
# [04:47] <paul_irish> :D :D
# [04:47] <nimbupani> if only.
# [04:47] <paul_irish> there's that massive build script patch i need to land
# [04:47] <nimbupani> exactly
# [04:47] <paul_irish> after i figure out wtf it does
# [04:48] <nimbupani> i am gonna work on the website tonite
# [04:48] <paul_irish> nimbupani: can you see if theres anything else in css land we should drop
# [04:48] <nimbupani> yeah i will
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# [04:51] <grantg> paul_irish: Having issues with the canvas 2d api again, ugh...
# [04:52] <grantg> I'm trying to do framebuffer drawing in the js GBA emulator, but seems all the browsers are slow on things like compositing the sub-framebuffers to the master framebuffer.
# [04:52] <grantg> Especially when some things are rotated and scaled in the sub-layering.
# [04:52] <paul_irish> hey grantg
# [04:53] <grantg> hey. :P
# [04:53] <paul_irish> hmm
# [04:53] <paul_irish> you're certainly more expert than I when it comes to canvas perf.. sad to inform you..
# [04:54] <grantg> paul_irish: I'm at phase 2 of the GBA emulator, meaning the ARM7TDMI CPU emulation is workable, but graphics is WIP.
# [04:54] <grantg> :(
# [04:55] <grantg> paul_irish: Anyhow, I didn't have these issues for the GBC emulator because there was no hardware scaling and rotating and hardware framebuffers
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# [04:55] <grantg> just BG and OBJ tiles.
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# [04:56] <grantg> paul_irish: Anyways, the current path for gfx in the GBA is a little complicated unfortunately.
# [04:56] <grantg> Involves software pre-rendering matched with canvas 2d api rendering.
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# [04:56] <grantg> D:
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# [04:57] <grantg> Any word on the audio api in webkit?
# [04:57] <paul_irish> yowch
# [04:58] <grantg> And meanwhile attaining 15 MIPS approx.
# [04:58] <grantg> in the GBA emulator
# [05:00] <grantg> paul_irish: Unfortunately webkit (Especially chrome) has a problem with the .data property being accessed for raw pixel output.
# [05:00] <grantg> webkit / chrome tend to be super-slow on this.
# [05:01] <paul_irish> grantg: dunno where it is. come back earlier in the day and ask Peter`
# [05:01] <grantg> So it trashes my canvas-2d compositing system that takes the pre-rendered data and layers/rotates/scales the images appropriately
# [05:01] <grantg> ok
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# [05:01] <paul_irish> grantg: you cache the .data imagedata variable so you dont access it through foo.data everytime right?
# [05:01] <grantg> yes
# [05:01] <grantg> still slow there
# [05:02] <paul_irish> for speeed
# [05:02] <grantg> I even have frame skipping
# [05:03] <grantg> I wish I could have a DMA function in javascript to do this for me.
# [05:03] <grantg> instead of looping myself
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# [05:04] <grantg> Unfortunately it has to be chewed from a signed 32-bit imaging to 8-bit unsigned manually
# [05:05] <grantg> ARGB=>R,G,B,0xFF
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# [05:06] <grantg> (alpha data loss is on purpose here)
# [05:06] <grantg> at least for the GBC emu, but not the GBA emu.
# [05:06] <paul_irish> are the new Typed arrays of any use to you?
# [05:07] <paul_irish> i guess i heard they're slower. :(
# [05:07] <paul_irish> though if they were why would webgl use em
# [05:07] <grantg> paul_irish: I extensively use them
# [05:07] <paul_irish> anyway.. brb in 10. walking home
# [05:07] <paul_irish> HOT
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# [05:07] <grantg> And webkit sucks at it
# [05:07] <grantg> :(
# [05:07] <grantg> Firefox 4 is the opposite, it's on fire with perf.
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# [05:12] * grantg can't wait to emulate a Pentium 1 system in javascript.
# [05:13] <grantg> Couldn't do it without HTML5 you guys.
# [05:14] <grantg> (Though audio sample writing from js also needs to improve badly)
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# [05:19] <grantg> paul_irish: I have a setting to disable typed arrays in my projects, because webkit doesn't JIT it or JIT it well.
# [05:19] * jeffszusz is filled with RAEGE
# [05:19] <paul_irish> o rly
# [05:19] <paul_irish> grantg: you should file a ticket on v8's tracker for that
# [05:20] <grantg> jeffszusz: RAEAEAEAEGGGE?
# [05:20] <jeffszusz> so much
# [05:20] <grantg> paul_irish: I think there is a report on it already
# [05:20] <jeffszusz> print designers make me feel so dirty
# [05:20] <paul_irish> o
# [05:20] <paul_irish> jeffszusz: why are u so angri
# [05:21] <jeffszusz> ugh
# [05:21] * grantg thinks about the birds that fell from the sky in the midwest and thinks of Angry Birds the game. :/
# [05:21] <jeffszusz> i have this client
# [05:22] <jeffszusz> does all his own artwork, which is fine because i can't draw a circle that doesn't look sickly
# [05:22] <jeffszusz> but he does website layouts as if they were posters
# [05:22] <jeffszusz> everything has to be pixel perfect, with 10pt fonts and absolute positioning
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# [05:23] <jeffszusz> but then he gets miffed when it doesn't look right on a smaller monitor or an iphone
# [05:23] <jeffszusz> lol
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# [05:23] <jeffszusz> and i have two horrifying words for you: Custom Scrollbars.
# [05:25] <nimbupani> use webkits
# [05:26] * grantg is disappointed the background to the W3C working draft is just a plain image and not some cool HTML5 rotated text background. :/
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# [05:41] <grantg> The inset bug was fixed?
# [05:41] <grantg> yay
# [05:43] <grantg> paul_irish: now if only opera can fix its broken box-shadow effect.
# [05:44] <grantg> (moving elements with the effect or altering box-shadow's visibility can cause serious rendering artifacts in Opera 10.50 alpha all the way up to the recent builds)
# [05:44] <nimbupani> wats broak?
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# [05:44] <nimbupani> oh
# [05:44] <grantg> :/
# [05:44] <nimbupani> :/
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# [05:56] <grantg> paul_irish: Oh, I need to upload my drag and drop code to the GBC emu.
# [05:56] <grantg> almost forgot. :/
# [05:56] <grantg> So you can just drop your roms in to load a new game in.
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# [05:57] <grantg> Though the File API method is pretty easy to
# [05:57] <grantg> *too
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# [06:13] <antonkovalyov> haha so true http://xkcd.com/844/
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# [06:40] <craigbarnes> Anyone seen this yet?
# [06:40] <craigbarnes> http://markdotto.com/playground/3d-text/
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# [06:55] <NiftyLettuce> paul_irish: yt?
# [06:56] <NiftyLettuce> paul_irish: how can I use ::-moz-selection and ::selection in SASS? B/c by default : is a declaration for a mixin
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# [07:00] <NiftyLettuce> it would help if I read the line "These selection declarations have to be kept separate"
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# [08:05] <tw2113> ffs it's cgcardona
# [08:05] <cgcardona> you can't get rid of me
# [08:06] <tw2113> who'd want to?
# [08:06] <cgcardona> I don't die I multiply
# [08:06] <tw2113> if we got rid of you, i'd be the only willing punching bag
# [08:06] <cgcardona> :)
# [08:06] <cgcardona> true
# [08:06] <cgcardona> i just had the most surreal experience
# [08:07] <tw2113> you were john wayne but pregnant?
# [08:07] <cgcardona> my friend just gave a talk on iOS forensics and after the talk an FBI agent came up and tried to recruit him
# [08:07] <tw2113> jim, he's an apple occultist
# [08:08] <cgcardona> my friend has a criminal conviction from when he was a kid and he told the FBI agent "i don't think I can get the clearance. I was a really bad kid" and the fbi agent said "we can forgive just about anything"
# [08:08] <cgcardona> classic
# [08:08] <tw2113> they must have wanted him bad
# [08:08] <cgcardona> technical skill > dumbass child mistakes
# [08:09] <tw2113> it's why hackers seem to get a lot of government jobs
# [08:09] <cgcardona> he wrote a piece of software that shows that even if you delete your iOS sms messages they are still on the phone
# [08:09] <tw2113> and any large company would be wise to hire a small handful if they build software
# [08:09] <cgcardona> the govt. gave him an iphone that had 41 text messages - he used his software and carved out over 800 messages that were still on the phone
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# [08:09] <cgcardona> enough extra evidence to convict a guy
# [08:10] <tw2113> makes you wonder what exactly apple has in mind for the stuff
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# [08:10] <cgcardona> my thoughts exactly
# [08:10] <cgcardona> cause it's not like they don't know the stuff is still there
# [08:10] <cgcardona> :-/
# [08:11] <antonkovalyov> wtf
# [08:11] <antonkovalyov> is there a way to securely delete them?
# [08:12] <tw2113> i wonder if android does the same
# [08:12] <cgcardona> i don't know the technical details enough to know exactly how and where they are stored so I don't know for sure antonkovalyov
# [08:12] <cgcardona> i will ask him tomorrow
# [08:13] <antonkovalyov> it could be some optimisation technique
# [08:13] <cgcardona> another crazy thing he showed is that each time your phone connects to a new tower or wifi spot it stores the long lat and timestamp in a db - so he was able to show thousands of connections going back on his phone the whole time he has owned it. He is writing a perl script that will scrape that db and lay it out on a map over time
# [08:14] <cgcardona> so you can see every single tower the phone has connected to over the course of it's life
# [08:14] <cgcardona> tw2113: good question
# [08:15] <antonkovalyov> cgcardona, wow, so you can actually determine person's route post-factum
# [08:15] <cgcardona> yep
# [08:15] <antonkovalyov> that's creepy
# [08:15] <cgcardona> no doubt
# [08:16] <tw2113> ya know what i haven't bothered with much since probably about christmas week?
# [08:16] <tw2113> beer
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# [08:16] <cgcardona> really? why is that?
# [08:17] <antonkovalyov> somebody should make something like ParanoidAndroid
# [08:17] <tw2113> i think the holidays and just end of the month finances
# [08:17] <tw2113> but new year = new raise too, so i have a bit more wiggle room. On top of that, i'm tracking expenses for a month to see what goes where
# [08:18] <tw2113> so very frugal minded
# [08:19] <tw2113> but i'm kind of anxious for some, and tomorrow is friday :)
# [08:21] <tw2113> oh hey, antonkovalyov has me on twitter now
# [08:21] <antonkovalyov> it was fairly easy to find your twitter account
# [08:21] <antonkovalyov> :)
# [08:21] <tw2113> i get that a lot
# [08:21] <tw2113> i've had this name for a decade too, so if you see it as a user ID, chances are it's me
# [08:22] <antonkovalyov> what do the numbers stand for?
# [08:23] <tw2113> oh hey, disqus...i've used their comment system a few times
# [08:23] <tw2113> tw = timberwolves, from the NBA
# [08:23] <tw2113> 21 = Garnett's # when he was with them
# [08:23] <tw2113> 13 = just the number
# [08:23] <cgcardona> wow
# [08:23] <cgcardona> the mystery has vanished
# [08:24] <antonkovalyov> nice :)
# [08:24] <tw2113> sorry about that cgcardona
# [08:24] <tw2113> i should have told him in PM so you would still be curious
# [08:25] <tw2113> i wonder if we could get bruce lawson in here sometime
# [08:25] <tw2113> we already get paul, chris, and remy sometimes
# [08:25] <cgcardona> bruce wayne would be cool too
# [08:26] <tw2113> nah, @god_damn_batman maybe
# [08:27] <tw2113> for instance "Resolution. This year I'm finally going to lose that last .3% body fat."
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# [08:28] <antonkovalyov> "Jeff Bridges in True Grit is just like me. If I had an eyepatch, carried a six-shooter, grew a beard. And was a pussy."
# [08:28] <cgcardona> nice
# [08:29] <tw2113> and i still love @html5douche + @css3hoochie although she has only 1 tweet
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# [08:30] <tw2113> "TODAY I'M GRATEFUL FOR ALL THE YOACHES WHO THINK HTML5 ISN'T READY. GO AHEAD AND OBSOLETE YOURSELVES, IT WILL OPEN UP JOBS"
# [08:32] <tw2113> anyways, i'm going to go to bed before 2am tonight, guaranteed
# [08:32] <tw2113> night you two
# [08:32] <cgcardona> night tw2113
# [08:32] <antonkovalyov> night
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# [08:38] <alcuadrado> how I missed this? http://www.nevermindthebullets.com/ :s
# [08:38] <alcuadrado> although the ie9 advice sucks
# [08:39] <craigbarnes> I'm might get shot for asking this
# [08:39] <craigbarnes> but does anyone know of a decent static site generator written in PHP?
# [08:40] <antonkovalyov> uh
# [08:40] <alcuadrado> what do you mean by static site generator in php?
# [08:40] <antonkovalyov> alcuadrado, i assume something like jekyll
# [08:40] <craigbarnes> Something like Jekyll, Hyde, Middleman etc.
# [08:41] <alcuadrado> yeah, I see
# [08:41] <alcuadrado> but, why php? 0.o
# [08:41] <paul_irish> O.o
# [08:41] <alcuadrado> I mean, you have no server restriction, they are just static files
# [08:41] <craigbarnes> Just doing a little research
# [08:42] <craigbarnes> I don't like PHP much myself but it does seem like a pretty well suited language for that purpose
# [08:42] <alcuadrado> get twig and markdown and that's it =)
# [08:42] <alcuadrado> it'll take you less than an hour
# [08:43] <craigbarnes> I've already used Hyde but it's a bit convoluted
# [08:43] <alcuadrado> maybe there's smth done, i dunno
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# [08:44] <alcuadrado> give yourself a chance ;) with a template engine like twig and any markdown implematation it'll be a piece of cake
# [08:46] <craigbarnes> Yeah I'll have a go at it if no one else has already
# [08:46] <craigbarnes> Am I the only one who think PHP is a perfect language for that use case?
# [08:46] <craigbarnes> am I just crazy?
# [08:46] <alcuadrado> I like php
# [08:47] <alcuadrado> it's a nice piece of shit, which tends to work great
# [08:47] <craigbarnes> haha awesome summary
# [08:48] <alcuadrado> but coding in js is far more enjoyable
# [08:49] <craigbarnes> True but I'm not sure it's very well suited for this :)
# [08:49] <alcuadrado> sure it is
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# [08:53] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, i really don't like how people are starting to think that html5 was created by apple
# [08:54] <antonkovalyov> google should have something like google.com/html5
# [08:54] <paul_irish> reallllly
# [08:54] <paul_irish> people think that???
# [08:54] <craigbarnes> antonkovalyov: who thinks that?
# [08:54] <paul_irish> assholes!
# [08:55] <antonkovalyov> not developers, just curious "pro-users" or how are they called nowadays
# [08:55] <paul_irish> APPLE FANBOYS you mean
# [08:55] <paul_irish> i'm jk. :(
# [08:55] <paul_irish> that sucks
# [08:55] <antonkovalyov> that's good apple pr :)
# [08:55] <paul_irish> well whatever.
# [08:55] <craigbarnes> I've seen Apple fanboys claiming all kinds of things
# [08:55] <paul_irish> apple can like... promote html5 all they want. i honestly have no problem with that
# [08:56] <paul_irish> google owns it more than they do but i dont think thats terribly important for people to know
# [08:56] <craigbarnes> what a few ignorant people believe can't have much of an impact on html5 anyway
# [08:56] <craigbarnes> it only really matters to developers anyway
# [08:56] <paul_irish> craigbarnes: how do you feel about an HTML5 Boilerplate Lite
# [08:56] <paul_irish> HTML5 Liteplate!
# [08:56] <craigbarnes> buzzword!
# [08:57] <craigbarnes> lol I'm not sure - what would it be?
# [08:57] <paul_irish> i have no idea what it would be.
# [08:57] <paul_irish> but it'd basically satify an audience of scaredy cats
# [08:57] <craigbarnes> pretty soon there's going to be 100 other boilerplates I think
# [08:57] <craigbarnes> trying to dilute your fame
# [08:57] <paul_irish> people who go OMG hitting Backspace is TERRIBLLY too much work and i'm scared by htaccess and shit
# [08:58] <paul_irish> sooooo
# [08:58] <paul_irish> iunno. i think its an education problem more than a product problem
# [08:58] <craigbarnes> I always liked the idea of packaging it up on the site as different editions
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# [08:58] <alcuadrado> haha, what a good channel, I must enter more frequently
# [08:58] <paul_irish> people think its too much because they dont understand it all.
# [08:58] <craigbarnes> and keeping the repo developer friendly
# [08:59] <craigbarnes> you could have an "utter moron" edition with just the basics
# [08:59] <paul_irish> craigbarnes: yeah for instance we definitely should(n't) of shipped /demo in the user release
# [08:59] <alrra> paul_irish: htaccess helped me the most for some school projects hehe :P
# [08:59] <paul_irish> perhaps
# [08:59] <paul_irish> alrra: s'what i like to hera
# [08:59] <paul_irish> the htaccess is beautiful.
# [08:59] <alrra> yeap :) much great stuff there
# [08:59] <alrra> :D
# [08:59] <paul_irish> the build script too.. but that's even more of a magic black box than htaccess
# [09:00] <paul_irish> gotta dismystify it so people are like OMG I GET IT NOW. god this is what i wanted!!!
# [09:00] <paul_irish> bcuz it is.
# [09:00] <paul_irish> fuckers.
# [09:00] <paul_irish> :D
# [09:00] <alcuadrado> I think the htacess is one of the best parts of the boilerplate, as not so many people talk about that bits as for example the css reset
# [09:00] <craigbarnes> I think it'd be awesome to just use the build script to package up the releases on the website
# [09:00] <paul_irish> css resets are boring but you can fuck it up
# [09:01] <paul_irish> i enjoyed calling out eric meyer the other day who fucked up his latest revision
# [09:01] <paul_irish> craigbarnes: how so
# [09:01] <craigbarnes> it could take all the work out of building different version (stripped, mobile, full, noob etc.)
# [09:01] <alcuadrado> about the build script, the last time I checked it, it used version numbers like 1, 2, 3... why not just use the MTIME?
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# [09:01] <craigbarnes> just have a build target for each "edition"
# [09:01] <paul_irish> oic
# [09:01] <craigbarnes> stripped would be minified
# [09:02] <craigbarnes> full would be the full repo
# [09:02] <craigbarnes> noob could be a watered down version
# [09:02] <paul_irish> alcuadrado: because integers take up less bytes than MTIME ?
# [09:02] <paul_irish> craigbarnes: it's possible.
# [09:02] <paul_irish> i like calling it "noob" .. that's a good idea
# [09:02] <craigbarnes> you could then make the repo developer friendly
# [09:03] <craigbarnes> you could even bring the configs back and have an nginx build
# [09:03] <paul_irish> heh
# [09:03] <craigbarnes> just ideas
# [09:03] <paul_irish> aye
# [09:03] <alcuadrado> paul_irish, just after writing that I get into the answer by myself :(
# [09:03] <paul_irish> <3
# [09:03] <craigbarnes> I think people who clone the github repo and then make a mess of there server fully deserve it :)
# [09:03] <alrra> paul_irish: for me for me personally - i realy like projects that have a lot of information for which i can learn and then i can select what i want
# [09:03] <craigbarnes> their*
# [09:04] <paul_irish> I KNOW RITE
# [09:04] <paul_irish> haters dont appreciate education
# [09:04] <alrra> yea :))
# [09:04] <paul_irish> i'm still very convinced that this project has done a better job of education of best practices than any number of nettuts/smashingmag/ajaxian/ALA blog posts would ever do
# [09:04] <paul_irish> sluts.
# [09:05] <craigbarnes> but remember, HTML5 isn't ready yet
# [09:05] <paul_irish> ?wa time singapore
# [09:05] <bot-t> paul_irish, 4:02:13 pm SGT : Friday, January 7, 2011
# [09:05] <craigbarnes> there's no need to educated people just yet
# [09:05] <paul_irish> craigbarnes: good call.
# [09:06] <craigbarnes> we've got until 2022
# [09:06] <paul_irish> craigbarnes: i'm really excited about yepnope integration with modernizr and like.. polyfill pandemonium
# [09:06] <alcuadrado> I think your video explanation about the boilerplate teaches more than just reading the boilerplate by myself
# [09:07] <paul_irish> im gonna do two more videos
# [09:07] <craigbarnes> paul_irish: Has that happened already?
# [09:07] <paul_irish> might end up redo'ing that first one
# [09:07] <paul_irish> craigbarnes: noooooo but its close to happening
# [09:07] <craigbarnes> are you recruiting Slex to the Modernizr team?
# [09:11] <paul_irish> he's actually on it, officially now
# [09:11] <craigbarnes> paul_irish: what do you think of head.js?
# [09:11] <paul_irish> SUCKS
# [09:11] <craigbarnes> yeah I thought so too
# [09:11] <paul_irish> i think head.js is up to like.. 70 issues reported on github so far?
# [09:11] <craigbarnes> people are on Google Ajax API tracker begging them to add it
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# [09:11] <paul_irish> it TOTALLY flubs all its feature detection in opera.
# [09:12] <paul_irish> the concept itself is actually totally fine
# [09:12] <paul_irish> but he decided to redevelop a bunch of shit that other people had done
# [09:12] <paul_irish> and as a result.. it's a bigass pile of bugs.
# [09:13] <craigbarnes> Yeah it's kind of a hash-up of stolen code
# [09:13] <paul_irish> it's a bummer. i like the guy. jQuery Tools is pretty sweet. but he shoulda used some existing projects and codified them into head.js
# [09:13] <craigbarnes> I havent seen any credits anywhere
# [09:13] <paul_irish> but anwyay. it's a good kick in the ass to us.. who are more or less competing with it
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# [09:13] <paul_irish> (true!)
# [09:13] <craigbarnes> Modernizr is MIT isn't it?
# [09:14] <paul_irish> MIT/BSD dual..... for .. some odd reaso
# [09:14] <paul_irish> n
# [09:14] <craigbarnes> Just copying jQuery :)
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# [09:14] <paul_irish> jquery is mit/gpl
# [09:14] <paul_irish> i could convince faruk to go public domain with it pretty easily i bet.
# [09:14] <paul_irish> <3 public domain/cc0
# [09:15] <craigbarnes> I don't dig cc0
# [09:15] <craigbarnes> what's wrong with attribution?
# [09:16] <craigbarnes> something to do with copyright assignment I guess
# [09:16] <craigbarnes> @ paul_irish
# [09:16] <paul_irish> ummmmm well.
# [09:16] <paul_irish> nothing's wrong with attribution
# [09:17] <paul_irish> until you decide that it'd make extra work for your downstream citizens to do the attribution
# [09:17] <paul_irish> and decide you dont give a shit about attribution
# [09:17] <paul_irish> which is about where i'm at now
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# [09:18] <craigbarnes> MIT attribution is pretty lenient though isn't it?
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# [09:19] <craigbarnes> you just have to include it in the source code
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# [09:20] <craigbarnes> if it's open source of course
# [09:20] <paul_irish> mmhmm
# [09:21] <craigbarnes> why javascript inherently is anyway
# [09:21] <craigbarnes> which*
# [09:21] <paul_irish> indeed.
# [09:21] <paul_irish> <3 javascript
# [09:21] <paul_irish> closed source javascript is hilarious.
# [09:21] <craigbarnes> lol
# [09:21] <alrra> lol
# [09:22] <craigbarnes> I'm sure someone in the world right now is working on an awesome JS obfuscator
# [09:22] <craigbarnes> called JavaCrypt
# [09:22] <paul_irish> WHOA
# [09:22] <paul_irish> ?g javacrypt OR javascrypt
# [09:22] <bot-t> paul_irish, JavaScrypt: Browser-Based Cryptography Tools - http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/
# [09:22] <craigbarnes> I just coined that term right here
# [09:23] <henrikkok> lol
# [09:23] <paul_irish> craigbarnes++
# [09:23] <paul_irish> See! public domain this page too
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# [09:24] <craigbarnes> Actually I prefer Javascrypt®
# [09:25] <craigbarnes> My product, hands off
# [09:25] <craigbarnes> I have the chat logs to prove it
# [09:26] <paul_irish> all you, bro.
# [09:26] <paul_irish> 1-800-OBFUSCATE-YR-SHIT
# [09:26] <paul_irish> 1-800-OBFUSCATE-YR-SHIT-WIT-JAVASCRYPT
# [09:26] <craigbarnes> ®
# [09:28] <ron_frown> I dont know where better to ask... so anyone done much with websockets or comet? I am trying to gauge realistically how well I'll be able to integrate with it in my app
# [09:29] <ron_frown> so it'd almost have to be a .net app
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# [09:30] <craigbarnes> ron_frown: here is probably a good place to ask but I have no idea myself
# [09:30] <paul_irish> i'm aware of no .net comet/websockets solutions myself
# [09:30] <paul_irish> ?g socket.io ".net"
# [09:30] <bot-t> paul_irish, Socket Class (System.Net.Sockets) - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.net.sockets.socket.aspx
# [09:30] <paul_irish> nope.
# [09:32] <ron_frown> there are a few options
# [09:32] <ron_frown> hell I'll write one from scratch for .net for everyone, just dont have the time to do it right this sec
# [09:32] <ron_frown> which sucks becaus ethat means node.js for nwo
# [09:33] <alcuadrado> do you need bidirectional comunication ron_frown ?
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# [09:44] <ron_frown> uhh no not really
# [09:45] <ACTRAiSER> morning guys
# [09:45] <ron_frown> just to be able to have someone post something to a url, the backend says let person id blah know about it
# [09:45] <ron_frown> if they are subscribed
# [09:45] <ron_frown> but would prefer to be more "live" than polling
# [09:45] <ron_frown> I am going to just install node.js as little as I like the idea
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# [09:47] <alcuadrado> so yes, socket.io is a good option
# [09:47] <alcuadrado> there is also a java implementation if you dislike node.js
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# [09:59] <paul_irish> ^
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# [10:42] <ACTRAiSER> Flying ou t to San Francisco 22nd to 29th January... if any of your guys are in the bay area we are happy to grab a beer or two
# [10:42] <ACTRAiSER> we = Zynga Germany Team
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# [13:12] <craigbarnes> Has anyone used jade much?
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# [13:13] <craigbarnes> paul_irish: Do you know much about http://jade-lang.com/ ?
# [13:17] <danielfilho> hi guys :D
# [13:18] <danielfilho> let me ask you a question.
# [13:18] <danielfilho> how could a jsonp hosted in the cloud mess up my layout but, if I save it locally, all goes ok
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# [13:32] <danielfilho> ok, I'll make it when you guys wake up.
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# [14:28] <paxcoder> yo peeps. is it legal to put a div inside an "a" tag?
# [14:29] <paxcoder> (so as to make the whole div a link, and not use JavaScript for it)
# [14:29] <ben_c> it is in html5, <a> can contain block level elements
# [14:29] <ben_c> http://html5doctor.com/block-level-links-in-html-5/
# [14:29] <paxcoder> kewl thx
# [14:29] <paxcoder> i like that
# [14:31] <paxcoder> ben_c, just occured to me. that'd make all text elements turn into hyperlinks (and get styled accordingly), can this be prevented without explicitly giving a styles for a particular block?
# [14:34] <ben_c> you'd have to style it, but you could use a selector that styles certain children of the a tag
# [14:35] <paxcoder> yeah. still clunky.
# [14:35] <paxcoder> nvm, thx
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# [15:38] <rakeshpai> anyone faced this weird problem where in certain iphones there's no request for the appcache manifest? Details: iPhone iOS 4.2, latest safari, etc. doesn't make a request for the manifest and loads all resources irrespective, older iPhone 3G with iOS 4 loads from appcache even when the server is down.
# [15:39] <rakeshpai> Also, are appcache size limits global to the browser or are they on a per-manifest basis?
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# [15:58] <craigbarnes> Just stumbled on a gem of a question while browsing around
# [15:58] <craigbarnes> behold:
# [15:59] <craigbarnes> "I am going to build a e-comerice website and I was hopping for input onf the best web language to build the website in? "
# [15:59] <craigbarnes> "I am going to build a e-comerice website and I was hopping for input onf the best web language to build the website in? "
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# [15:59] <craigbarnes> "Right now I don't know if we are going to use a database. If I use a database would php be faster than html? "
# [15:59] <craigbarnes> good lord
# [15:59] <rakeshpai> lol
# [16:00] <craigbarnes> That is going to be one hell of an "e-comerice" website
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# [16:01] <Thasmo> I'm curious why he is "hopping" for input. :>
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# [16:02] <craigbarnes> perhaps he has ADHD
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# [16:25] <mokush_> you guys, I'm using requirejs to load some scripts. the problem is that once a certain script was loaded, if I try and load it again, it doesn't load it, it doesn't even run it.
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# [16:39] <tw2113> http://laughingsquid.com/the-other-100-greatest-movie-insults-of-all-time/
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# [16:53] <tw2113> hey paul_irish would jquery mobile be a good thing to invest in if i wanted some sort of slider plugin on mobile devices?
# [16:54] <tw2113> instead of coming up for a different solution for the slider that may be on the desktop version
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# [17:22] <craigbarnes> http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lelp8u1Ha31qz4cuyo1_500.jpg
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# [17:39] <burg> hello. i have two canvases on a page, one above other. and when i try to change style to one of them or to erase one of them, it erases and changes style to both. is this normal?
# [17:40] <tw2113> do they have different classes applied to them?
# [17:41] <tw2113> or are you just referencing them in the css with "canvas {...}"
# [17:41] <burg> tw2113, different id, in fact
# [17:41] <tw2113> hmmm
# [17:41] <tw2113> i don't know enough about canvas to tell if this is how it's supposed to be or not
# [17:41] <tw2113> given the ability with the tag
# [17:41] <tw2113> my best suggestion from my knowledge...try classes
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# [17:46] <mokush_> anybody worked with requirejs/commonjs modules?
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# [18:10] <danielfilho> guys. this is the news today: a JSONP hosted online breaks my markup. If I download it and host locally, all goes right.
# [18:10] <danielfilho> I'm trying to acquire some paranormal power. I'll tell you if I got it, ok? :D
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# [18:18] <bEEEviz> hey
# [18:18] <bEEEviz> can anyone tell me why websql is discontinued and indexedDB used instead? indexeddb stinks
# [18:18] <nimbupani> :D
# [18:19] <bEEEviz> really
# [18:20] <bEEEviz> websql rocks
# [18:20] <bEEEviz> indexeddb does not
# [18:20] <miketaylr> it's because you didn't bring up that argument on public-webapps
# [18:21] <nimbupani> :D :D
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# [18:21] <tw2113> so that's who's fault it is! bEEEviz'z
# [18:21] <tw2113> 's* even
# [18:21] <miketaylr> but also because mozilla and microsoft said they'd never implement it
# [18:21] * tw2113 isn't sure what those do exactly, but i know who to blame
# [18:21] <bEEEviz> i think they dont care a lot about my opinion
# [18:22] <bEEEviz> yes. but why don't they?
# [18:22] <miketaylr> for the answer to that, dig into the mail archives
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# [18:25] <nimbupani> ?g public-webapps list
# [18:25] <bot-t> nimbupani, Old Nabble - w3.org - public-webapps forum & mailing list archive - http://old.nabble.com/w3.org---public-webapps-f35617.html
# [18:27] <paul_irish> btw ya'll big convo about the html5 boilerplate and it's size and scaryness and how to deal with that https://groups.google.com/d/topic/html5boilerplate/Nwy303DS2k8/discussion
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# [18:32] <NiftyLettuce> ty for link paul
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# [18:33] <NiftyLettuce> paul_irish: having trouble with $.include inside of the //remap jQuery to $ on plugins.js, it gives me an "...object is actually just the init constructor 'enhanced'" error
# [18:34] <ben_c> oh I like the suggestion of adding a builder to the H5BP, I personally don't mind using the 'delete key', but can see where this could come in handy
# [18:35] <nimbupani> agreed ben_c
# [18:35] <NiftyLettuce> we should write a GUI for Boilerplate
# [18:35] <NiftyLettuce> integrate CSS3 pie in
# [18:35] <ben_c> Would also give you the chance to educate about each feature without them having to read through the code (although they should) so people understand what they're including instead of just dumping the whole lot in
# [18:35] <nimbupani> GUI :/
# [18:35] <paul_irish> yeahhhhh FEATURE CREEP OMG.
# [18:36] <NiftyLettuce> LOL
# [18:36] <miketaylr> i know some visual basic, guize
# [18:36] <paul_irish> css3 pie is so effing inevitable with a builder.
# [18:36] <nimbupani> :D :D :D
# [18:36] <NiftyLettuce> sparkles and ponies wtf
# [18:36] <nimbupani> VB++
# [18:36] <paul_irish> and sex, NiftyLettuce.
# [18:36] <NiftyLettuce> ^.^ Q(''Q)
# [18:36] <NiftyLettuce> and kirby
# [18:36] <paul_irish> ben_c: this is true
# [18:36] <NiftyLettuce> ms pacman called, she left her nom noms
# [18:37] <NiftyLettuce> paul you removing the plugins.js?
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# [18:37] <paul_irish> i cleaned it out. only left the logging stuff
# [18:37] <nimbupani> why should we remove NiftyLettuce?
# [18:37] <paul_irish> no he's reading my msg in the thread
# [18:37] <ben_c> adding CSS3 pie and other scripts could just be in a list of 'unsupported' thirdparty crap hidden away in the builder?
# [18:37] <NiftyLettuce> oh, i read that wrong in his comment
# [18:37] <NiftyLettuce> msg*
# [18:38] <NiftyLettuce> I read about yepnope, looks a higher learning curve than what I'm comfortable with, but I want to make use of your plugins.js -- and I tried using a $.include inside the (function($) { but it only returns errors
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# [18:39] <paul_irish> hmmmm
# [18:40] <paul_irish> well.. you should just kill the jQuery $ wrapper
# [18:40] <paul_irish> it's not a big deal
# [18:40] <NiftyLettuce> you had it there to clean up plugins from your screencast?
# [18:40] <NiftyLettuce> what does it even do?
# [18:41] <NiftyLettuce> just gets run with the build script? and minifys?
# [18:42] <paul_irish> it....
# [18:42] <paul_irish> ummm.
# [18:42] <paul_irish> if for some reason you need to call jQuery.noConflict()
# [18:42] <paul_irish> but you like referencing jquery with the $
# [18:42] <paul_irish> then you're in a bubble of safety inside that thing
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# [18:43] <NiftyLettuce> nice Paul
# [18:43] <NiftyLettuce> ty
# [18:43] * tw2113 personally thinks that wordpress plugin authors need to check if jquery is aliased already before including their own version into wp_head()
# [18:43] <paul_irish> NiftyLettuce: yepnope will be your bestfriend. it'll just be a few months.
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# [18:44] <alrra> paul_irish: "Hell it even takes over 40 minutes to explain! " lol =)) go watch porn instead :))... c`on sometimes you stay 3 days till you get some things and you don`t have 40 min to just listen and understand quickly without and effort
# [18:44] <paul_irish> :)
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# [18:47] <alrra> paul_irish: i found html5boilerplate searching for something for apache and after watching the 40 min video i has like: yeye i get it now :D
# [18:48] <Thasmo> paul_irish, I notice all your websites/domains are configured to not use the www subdomain. Any reasons for this or is it just a matter of taste?
# [18:48] <tw2113> extra typing mang!
# [18:48] <paul_irish> matter of taste.
# [18:48] <paul_irish> i think its.. http://no-www.org
# [18:49] <nimbupani> who wants a WWW
# [18:49] <tw2113> for instance with mine....http://michaelbox.net vs http://www.michaelbox.net
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# [18:49] <nimbupani> such a mouthful
# [18:49] <paul_irish> Succinctly, use of the www subdomain is redundant and time consuming to communicate. The internet, media, and society are all better off without it.
# [18:49] * tw2113 resists "thats what she said" joke
# [18:49] <paul_irish> do you want to hear people on the news say "just go to aitch t t p colon slash slash dubbleyou dubble you dubble you .....
# [18:50] <tw2113> or just the actual domain + dot com/dot net/etc
# [18:50] <Thasmo> tea tea pee? :>
# [18:50] <paul_irish> tea tea pee!
# [18:51] <tw2113> it's what you do when you drink too much tea....pee
# [18:51] <Thasmo> well I think it would be cool to call it 'age tea tea pee call on slash slash double you ...' xD
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# [18:51] <Thasmo> maybe some1 could make a rap of it
# [18:52] <Thasmo> nvm got the point, but, paul_irish, the http:// isn't the point, is it? I mean I can leave it either I use www or not.
# [18:52] <tw2113> you mean like these, Thasmo ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjDSY8LczFw
# [18:52] <paul_irish> of course.
# [18:52] <paul_irish> if you like typing it thats fine. shit will work.
# [18:53] <alrra> in my language they say v instance of w :/
# [18:53] <Thasmo> rofl paul_irish
# [18:53] <Thasmo> in german it's kinda 'v' - the 'w' is pronounced like 'v'.
# [18:53] <danielfilho> is anyone using jQuery Touch with custom templates?
# [18:54] <alrra> instead~
# [18:54] <danielfilho> anyone knows it?
# [18:54] <NiftyLettuce> acheteeteepee.com
# [18:54] <NiftyLettuce> we should start it
# [18:54] <Thasmo> :>
# [18:54] <NiftyLettuce> danielfilho: I've played with it
# [18:55] <danielfilho> NiftyLettuce: you have something online?
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# [18:55] <NiftyLettuce> Thasmo: you can only leavei to ut if you have htaccess config'd properly
# [18:55] <NiftyLettuce> danielfilho: i will in a sec, hacking bluetooth right now
# [18:55] <Thasmo> NiftyLettuce, nah but the subdomain must be configured.
# [18:55] <danielfilho> NiftyLettuce: cool :)
# [18:55] <NiftyLettuce> OBEX data exchange is whack
# [18:55] <danielfilho> tell me when ok!
# [18:55] <NiftyLettuce> Thasmo: aye oh yea ^^
# [18:55] <Thasmo> htaccess is only for the redirection imo, no?
# [18:55] <masondesu> danielfilho, I'm using a custom jQTouch theme.
# [18:56] <NiftyLettuce> masondesu: linky?
# [18:56] <NiftyLettuce> eyepad galore
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# [18:56] <danielfilho> masondesu: url? I want to see how ppl is using.
# [18:56] <masondesu> It's buggy as shit, working on it right now: http://masondesu.com/mobile-ass-whipping
# [18:56] <danielfilho> I'm planning to contribute with the script. But I want to study it deeply :)
# [18:56] <Thasmo> HyperTextTransferProtokol://WorldWideWeb.google.Commercial/
# [18:57] <Thasmo> Protocol
# [18:57] <Thasmo> eh nvm
# [18:57] <tw2113> aye, it's already noon?
# [18:57] <masondesu> jQTouch isn't buggy. I mean my site
# [18:57] <danielfilho> masondesu: thanks :D
# [18:57] <danielfilho> I get it
# [19:00] <NiftyLettuce> masondesu: wizards and warriors <3 and hotpink <3 paul_irish
# [19:00] <NiftyLettuce> references need more towards unicorns I do believe
# [19:00] <masondesu> haha
# [19:01] <masondesu> Paul Irish brought out the pink highlighter in all of us
# [19:01] <paul_irish> HOORAY!
# [19:01] <Thasmo> :>
# [19:03] <danielfilho> pink highlander?
# [19:03] <tw2113> paul flaunts pink?
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# [19:06] <davatron5000> masondesu: your mobile ass whipping is radical
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# [19:06] <masondesu> haha, I was really hoping to whip mobile ass in a radical way, thx
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# [19:09] <danielfilho> this fixation on unicorns, rainbows and sparkling thinkgs.
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# [19:09] <danielfilho> I think I'll never understand.
# [19:09] <nimbupani> i am a dinosaur connoisseur myself.
# [19:09] <danielfilho> *things
# [19:10] <paul_irish> she is. in a big way.
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# [19:11] <danielfilho> wait. nimbupani is a girl?
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# [19:11] <danielfilho> that's why her site is absolutely gorgeous! :D
# [19:11] <danielfilho> and have no unicorns. or rainbows.
# [19:11] <danielfilho> hahaha
# [19:12] <nimbupani> HA HA HA
# [19:13] <danielfilho> ok, let me get back on work. will have to come saturday AND sunday. damn.
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# [19:14] * tw2113 wants to re-see this nimbupani site
# [19:14] <danielfilho> '
# [19:14] <tw2113> i know i've been there before, but can't recall the url
# [19:14] <danielfilho> nimbupani.com
# [19:15] <tw2113> i should have known
# [19:15] <tw2113> yes yes, very well used color scheme
# [19:15] <danielfilho> i'd send a lmgtfy.com link, but I'm planning to be a good boy today.
# [19:15] <danielfilho> tw2113: and as I said, no unicorns.
# [19:16] <tw2113> being good is overrated
# [19:16] <peol> ?lmgtfy nimbupani website
# [19:16] <bot-t> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nimbupani+website
# [19:16] <danielfilho> GOSH! bot-t has a lmgtfy macro!
# [19:16] <tw2113> i need to remember that site
# [19:16] <danielfilho> I wanna marry this bot.
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# [19:16] <tw2113> !help
# [19:17] <tw2113> .help
# [19:17] <twitterhapy> tw2113: use .follow/.unfollow <id>. Get twitter ID's from here: http://www.idfromuser.com/ -- Please note that these are temporary, ask peol to add permanent ID's.
# [19:17] * Quits: mokush_ (~quassel@188.24.42.76) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:17] <tw2113> ?help
# [19:17] <bot-t> Get FREE A++ HELP - http://workaround.org/getting-help-on-irc
# [19:17] <tw2113> dang
# [19:17] <tw2113> where's the help for bot-t's commands?
# [19:17] <danielfilho> maybe /msg bot-t help
# [19:17] <tw2113> ?8ball tsting
# [19:17] <bot-t> Is that a question?
# [19:17] <tw2113> ?8ball can danielfilho marry you?
# [19:17] <bot-t> Better not tell you now.
# [19:18] <tw2113> i tried danielfilho
# [19:18] <danielfilho> ok tw2113, you've been a nice guy. so you're overrated.
# [19:18] <tw2113> very much so
# [19:19] <tw2113> underused and overrated
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# [19:20] <danielfilho> tw2113: there's still hope.
# [19:20] <tw2113> Nice Guys Anonymous?
# [19:20] <danielfilho> whüt?
# [19:20] <tw2113> i dunno
# [19:21] <stack> hi, does figure and firefox 3.5 have some problem? I don't understand if I have some syntax problem or firefox is "self closing" (like < /> ) the tag.
# [19:22] <tw2113> is figure supported that far back?
# [19:24] <peol> stack, tw2113: From MDC: The <figure> and <figcaption> elements Requires Gecko 2.0 (FF4)
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# [19:24] <peol> MDN*
# [19:24] <peol> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/html/html5
# [19:24] <tw2113> even the 3.6 line won't support it
# [19:24] <tw2113> not natively at least, maybe with the shiv
# [19:25] <stack> peol: so I have no chance to get it working? I'm already using shiv for ie but I don't know if that works also for ff3.5
# [19:25] <tw2113> do you have figure set to display block?
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# [19:26] <paul_irish> ?commands
# [19:26] <bot-t> jQuery bot commands: http://docs.jquery.com/JQuery_bot_commands
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# [19:29] <stack> tw2113: yes
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# [19:31] <tw2113> hmm, might be a FF bug then, i dunno otherwise
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# [19:32] <miketaylr> stack: what kind of problem?
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# [19:36] <stack> mikesusz: I'm going to think of a syntax error somewhere, I'm debugging that thing, I have a <figure> <div>something</div></figure> that in ff3.5 is displayed as <figure></figure> <div>something</div>
# [19:36] <stack> but if I "translate" the figure tag in a div all is dispayed correctly.
# [19:38] <Michael> ?translate My ostrich wears a silly hat when it pole dances to Spanish
# [19:38] <bot-t> Michael, Translation (English -> Spanish) - Mi avestruz lleva un sombrero tonto cuando polo danzas
# [19:39] <Ms2ger> stack, that would probably be a long-fixed Fx bug
# [19:40] <stack> Ms2ger: what does a "long-fixed" means ?
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# [19:40] <Ms2ger> In latest stable
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# [19:43] * NiftyLettuce In the words of Super Mario "let's a go!"
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# [19:44] <mikesusz> ie gradient filter is poking square corners thru border radius. oh well.
# [19:44] <tw2113> ?translate I've got a lovely bunch of cocoanuts to Italian
# [19:44] <bot-t> tw2113, Translation (English -> Italian) - Ho un bel mucchio di noci di cocco
# [19:45] <tw2113> hells yeah
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# [19:56] <tw2113> what is this country coming to?
# [19:56] <tw2113> they're not even allowing a business to have the employees be partially naked
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# [19:57] <tw2113> http://www.nerve.com/love-sex/this-week-in-sex/this-week-in-sex-edition
# [19:57] <Ms2ger> You're making Hooters illegal?
# [19:58] <thatryan> any you folks use sencha touch
# [19:58] <tw2113> they can serve my coffee any way they want to be dressed
# [19:59] <masondesu> thatryan, messed around with it some last weekend, didn't do too much with it
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# [20:06] <NiftyLettuce> ?translate your mom to Italian
# [20:06] <bot-t> NiftyLettuce, Translation (English -> Italian) - la tua mamma
# [20:06] <NiftyLettuce> ?translate paul loves hotpink to Portuguese
# [20:06] <bot-t> NiftyLettuce, Translation (English -> Portuguese) - paul ama hotpink
# [20:06] <NiftyLettuce> lmao
# [20:07] <masondesu> ?translate i am mason to Japanese
# [20:07] <bot-t> masondesu, Translation (English -> Japanese) - 私は石工午前
# [20:07] <masondesu> haha fail
# [20:08] <masondesu> ?translate haha fail to Japanese
# [20:08] <bot-t> masondesu, Translation (English -> Japanese) - 母が失敗する
# [20:08] <masondesu> hahahaha mega-fail
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# [20:31] <NiftyLettuce> how to I access a private method in a plugin from outside the plugin? (ie: if I want to bind an event with the method?
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# [20:34] <paul_irish> cant
# [20:34] <paul_irish> hack the code of the plugin to expose it
# [20:35] <tw2113> i love my lunch today...brownies from a bakery...buy one get one free
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# [21:48] <danielfilho> I think I can't survive this weekend.
# [21:48] <danielfilho> for real.
# [21:48] <nimbupani> :/
# [21:48] <nimbupani> why?
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# [21:49] <norbert_> serious network lag
# [21:49] <norbert_> anyways, would it be easy for someone here to check the source code and see why it's not working in Firefox?
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# [21:50] <norbert_> or would that be lots of work, looking through the code?
# [21:50] <Ms2ger> One could look, but only if such code was linked to
# [21:50] <norbert> hi all, there's a little HTML5 game someone (not me) wrote that works in Chrome and Safari, but the AI fails in Firefox
# [21:50] <norbert> the URL of the game is http://ngupta03.mysite.syr.edu/
# [21:50] <norbert_> there it is
# [21:51] <norbert_> serious network lag, like crazy
# [21:51] <norbert_> lots of code, maybe I should ask the developers in #firefox?
# [21:51] <alcuadrado> let me check
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# [21:52] <norbert_> alcuadrado: thanks
# [21:52] <norbert_> the issue is that the AI on setting "9" (after pressing 9 on the keyboard) is still weak
# [21:52] <norbert_> but only weak in Firefox, not in Chrome or Safari
# [21:52] <alcuadrado> woooooooooooow guy
# [21:52] <alcuadrado> who wrote it?
# [21:52] <alcuadrado> a mathematician? haha
# [21:53] <norbert_> yep
# [21:53] <alcuadrado> they are so obvious haha
# [21:53] <norbert_> :)
# [21:53] <alcuadrado> keep them away from code =)
# [21:54] <alcuadrado> nearly 750 LOC non intented, non organized, and sometimes without line breaks! :s
# [21:54] <danielfilho> nimbupani: I have two deadlines for monday
# [21:54] <danielfilho> next monday.
# [21:54] <nimbupani> o like dat :/
# [21:54] <norbert_> but still, he's coding HTML5, that's good thing; more people working on non-flash things
# [21:54] <danielfilho> we've submitted an application to apple store, but they're late on the approval. so I'm doing the same app, but webapp.
# [21:54] <miketaylr> works fine in opera
# [21:55] <danielfilho> and I have a new "shopping layer" to code, with some backend developers that are in another state. and they can't write a jsonp without messing everything.
# [21:55] <danielfilho> so, I'll work sat and sun.
# [21:56] <norbert_> alcuadrado: error console shows two errors, it seems
# [21:56] <danielfilho> the good part is that #html5 will have my rich and philosophic presence
# [21:56] <norbert_> hum... no, warnings, not errors
# [21:56] <danielfilho> the bad is the same.
# [21:56] <norbert_> probably not the cause of the AI issue
# [21:56] <alcuadrado> norbert_, I'll check those errors, but won't read all that code :s
# [21:57] <alcuadrado> and, indeed, don't let mathematicians code :P
# [21:57] <norbert_> those warnings aren't the problem
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# [21:57] <norbert_> yeah, I'll have to notify the folks in #firefox
# [21:58] <alrra> norbert: it's easier with the mouse clicked on the food hehe :P
# [21:58] <norbert_> it's a Firefox issue
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# [21:58] <norbert> oh
# [21:58] <norbert> well, still got the other
# [22:00] <alcuadrado> I see no error
# [22:01] <alcuadrado> BTW, what is that "game"?
# [22:01] <alcuadrado> I think the AI is learning
# [22:01] <Ms2ger> Weird
# [22:01] <alcuadrado> as it's getting faster
# [22:01] <alcuadrado> what kind of artifitial lerning is it using?
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# [22:03] <norbert> I have no idea
# [22:03] <norbert> the "game" is that you move around with the cursor keys and try to get the 'food' before the AI does
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# [22:03] <norbert> if you press 9 it's on the best setting
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# [22:03] <norbert> but still sucks in Firefox
# [22:03] <tw2113> which version?
# [22:04] <norbert> beta8
# [22:04] <tw2113> just checking
# [22:04] <alcuadrado> ohh, FF4
# [22:04] <alcuadrado> I thought you mean the current release
# [22:04] <peol> btw, it's never too late to retweet this: http://twitter.com/#!/paul_irish/status/27169215669
# [22:04] <norbert> I'm on Linux, so can't check if it works in IE, but probably not
# [22:04] <norbert> so only 1% of all people will have a working game
# [22:04] <tw2113> fuck IE
# [22:04] <norbert> because Firefox and IE are out
# [22:04] <alcuadrado> I don't have that beta currently, and I've a terribly slow connection right now, so I can't help you
# [22:05] <tw2113> do keep in mind though, that even all the modern browsers aren't all at the same place with feature development
# [22:05] <tw2113> all depends on which ones they're focusing on for the next release
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# [22:05] <norbert> yeah
# [22:05] <norbert> from what I can tell though, as an HTML5 noob, it's mostly javascript
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# [22:08] <antonkovalyov> i actually thought that w3schools were affiliated to w3c
# [22:08] <tw2113> i am kind of stopping from checking in on foursquare, at work here
# [22:08] <tw2113> i am up to like 20 checkins and am the only one to
# [22:08] <tw2113> they probably wish
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# [22:12] <danielfilho> masodensu cheated me. he told he was using jQuery mobile. But it is jQtouch.
# [22:12] <danielfilho> I'm a foooooool. tchururuuuu
# [22:12] * tw2113 points and laughs
# [22:16] <tw2113> form alignment....y u no work!?!?!
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# [22:29] <antonkovalyov> hey guys. are there any standard policies on how much time browsers give an unload event listeners when user closes the page (or navigates from it)?
# [22:29] <Ms2ger> Not as far as I know
# [22:30] * Parts: miketaylr (~miket@206.217.92.186)
# [22:31] <tw2113> 42 hours
# [22:33] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [22:33] <antonkovalyov> no seriously. i want to send some data onbeforeunload but i don't know if i will have enough time to do it
# [22:39] <tw2113> any of you know how to successfully target form selects for changing the outline color?
# [22:41] <nimbupani> when a select is focussed?
# [22:42] <tw2113> yeah
# [22:42] <tw2113> drop down list
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# [22:50] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: use a synchronous ajax...
# [22:50] <paul_irish> o wait you can't do proper XHR. :/
# [22:50] <paul_irish> or can you with CORS?
# [22:50] <paul_irish> IE8+
# [22:51] * jacine is now known as jacine|afk
# [22:51] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, we use postMessage and a number of hacks for IE/old browsers (easyXDM) to do cross-domain messaging
# [22:52] <antonkovalyov> so basically it means we're communicating with an iframe
# [22:52] <antonkovalyov> i need to check if browsers waits on that kind of stuff
# [22:52] <paul_irish> doubt it
# [22:52] <paul_irish> sync ajax is how i already recommend to shoot back data in an onbeforeunload
# [22:52] <paul_irish> nothing else is really sync
# [22:53] <paul_irish> so its race conditions !!! yAY
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# [22:58] <paul_irish> hey everyone go here and open it in another incognito window http://oksoclap.com//whyw3schoolssucks load test time!!!
# [22:59] <tw2113> why with incogneto?
# [22:59] <tw2113> just curious
# [23:00] <nimbupani> so it can be two connections
# [23:00] <paul_irish> just because you get a 2nd out of it. the server outsmarts you if you use two of the same tabs
# [23:00] <tw2113> just curious
# [23:00] <tw2113> i don't do incogneto much
# [23:00] <JKarsrud> Sorry, only 16 people are allowed to edit a single pad at the same time in the free version of EtherPad. :(
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# [23:18] <antonkovalyov> haha
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# Session Close: Sat Jan 08 00:00:00 2011

The end :)