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- # Session Start: Sun Jan 09 00:00:00 2011
- # Session Ident: #html5
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- # [01:06] <ben_c> I'd say best to 'use a similar order of elements in the source as they're displayed'
- # [01:06] <ben_c> Good to keep core site navigation near the top, for the screen readers
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- # [02:17] <tw2113> anyone know any reason why i shouldn't join the Mozilla Developer Network?
- # [02:18] <Thasmo> ben_c, ye thats one fact which would benefit to have the source in the displays order. Are there any other advantages or disadvantages?
- # [02:19] <ben_c> Thasmo: for semantic / maintainability sake it's pretty useful
- # [02:19] <thatryan> tw2113: no, i joined, so you should too ;)
- # [02:20] <tw2113> would it help my e-penis grow at all?
- # [02:20] <thatryan> dude, totally
- # [02:20] <Thasmo> ben_c, I was used to put the content on top in terms of "indexability" for search engines primary. Is that nonsense then?
- # [02:20] <tw2113> SOLD!
- # [02:22] <ben_c> Thasmo: Google crawls your content and makes a document outline, including the nav (which helps them find other content), so I can't really see the benefit of content before the nav
- # [02:22] <ben_c> how much navigation have you got!
- # [02:22] <tw2113> now...to figure out how i'll be able to benefit
- # [02:23] <Thasmo> ben_c, depends on the project - I was just used to this from my former company and now I just want to put light on it and change it if its bullshit.
- # [02:23] <ben_c> I'd scrap it if I were you ;-)
- # [02:25] <thatryan> best documentation there
- # [02:27] <tw2113> win! "The easiest way to make sure that the Standards mode is activated for HTML, is to use this doctype declaration: <!DOCTYPE html>"
- # [02:27] <Thasmo> :>
- # [02:28] <tw2113> also: "Mozilla doesn’t display the alt attribute as a tooltip, because it has been observed that doing so encourages authors to misuse the attribute."
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- # [02:29] <tw2113> not sure if it'd validate, but if you really need a tooltip on an image...provide a title tag
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- # [02:32] <thatryan> lots of ways to make tooltips show up yeah
- # [02:33] * tw2113 cries all these add-ons i want to use again aren't updated for beta8
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- # [02:36] <Thasmo> tw2113, https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/15003/
- # [02:36] <Thasmo> it enables to use old extensions which _MAYBE_ work in firefox4 beta 8
- # [02:37] <Thasmo> e.g. I use the developer toolbar and it works quite well so far
- # [02:37] <tw2113> web developer toolbar got updated
- # [02:37] <tw2113> last i saw at least, earlier this afternoon
- # [02:39] <tw2113> no love lost for Inkscape...but I decided to make MDN my new homepage
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- # [02:41] <tw2113> personally, i think Inkscape is in line for a big user boost as they work natively with SVG
- # [02:44] <tw2113> reasons to drink coffee before drinking alcohol: so you're awake enough to enjoy the process of potentially passing out
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- # [03:03] <Thasmo> Does anyone know how to rearrange bars in firefox 4? It seems I can only drag/drop icons but now wholw bars. I want to put the bookmarks-bar above the web developer toolbar but I dunno how.
- # [03:03] <tw2113> i get the developer bar as the last one
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- # [03:04] <Thasmo> ye I also had it at last one, but - not sure why - it's now above
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- # [03:05] <Thasmo> Hm seems I need an addon for that - weird. https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/3571/
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- # [03:19] <tw2113> chrome makes for a good twitter client :D
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- # [03:58] <tw2113> grrr
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- # [04:03] <tw2113> thatryan are you able to log into MDN?
- # [04:04] <tw2113> hmmm, odd, now it shows me as logged in
- # [04:12] <cgcardona> oh no its tw2113 - stash the chickens!
- # [04:12] <tw2113> :D
- # [04:13] <thatryan> tw2113: yup
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- # [04:16] <thatryan> oops
- # [04:16] <thatryan> when the battery warning comes on plug the thing in!
- # [04:18] <tw2113> i think i got it working, it was doing some weird stuff for me
- # [04:18] <tw2113> i need to figure out why i have the browser stats page from W3Schools bookmarked
- # [04:19] <tw2113> they can't do math right
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- # [04:20] <tw2113> they list by all browser, and the example i'll use is IE
- # [04:20] <tw2113> they say it had 27.x% of the market share in december
- # [04:20] <tw2113> then you dive a bit deeper into just the IE versions
- # [04:20] <tw2113> they take that 27.x% and divide by which version
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- # [04:21] <tw2113> which is a big NO
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- # [04:21] <tw2113> when dividing between just the IE versions, the total should add up to 100%
- # [04:21] <tw2113> http://w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_explorer.asp
- # [04:22] <tw2113> anyone get the moronic stuff i'm talking about? :D
- # [04:22] <thatryan> Dont say the "IE" word on a saturday!
- # [04:22] <thatryan> and no
- # [04:22] <thatryan> lol
- # [04:23] <tw2113> you're going to make me explain better?
- # [04:23] <thatryan> nope :D
- # [04:23] <thatryan> just gonna nod my head ;)
- # [04:24] <tw2113> *facepalm*
- # [04:24] <thatryan> http://media.photobucket.com/image/picard%20facepalm/powderny/picard-facepalm.jpg
- # [04:24] <tw2113> nonetheless the bookmark is removed
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- # [04:35] <thatryan> what are you working on tonight tw2113
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- # [04:37] <tw2113> further bookmark cleanup at the moment
- # [04:37] <tw2113> a number of bookmark imports have made duplicates
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- # [04:47] <thatryan> lol http://twitter.com/#!/darthvader/statuses/23947660008361985
- # [04:47] <twitterhapy> http://bit.ly/gkEFt9 @darthvader -- Just got a spam trying to sell me the #StarWars trilogy on blu ray. *maskpalm*
- # [04:49] <tw2113> any of you think you're good with html color hex's?
- # [04:52] <tw2113> like...looking at it and being able to somewhat tell what color it'd be
- # [04:56] <thatryan> sure, if it is all 0's, F's, or 6's :D
- # [04:57] <tw2113> http://yizzle.com/whatthehex/
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- # [05:35] <tw2113> any of you know if it's possible to retrieve doctypes with xpath?
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- # [06:50] <tw2113> cgcardona you wouldn't happen to know anything about regex expressions would you?
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- # [06:53] <cgcardona> i'm pretty much a newb - however I have a friend who will be at my house in about an hour who is a complete regex wizard - if you wan wait that long
- # [06:53] <cgcardona> tw2113: ^
- # [06:53] <cgcardona> what tha problem?
- # [06:54] <tw2113> i need a regex expression that can retrieve doctypes
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- # [06:56] <tw2113> nothing special other than html doctypes
- # [06:56] <cgcardona> which doctypes? xhtml 1.1 strict/transitional, html 4 strict/transitional, & HTML5?
- # [06:57] <cgcardona> *4.01
- # [06:57] <tw2113> well, for the sake of simplicity, the html5 one
- # [06:57] <tw2113> i'm using preg_match
- # [06:57] <cgcardona> right
- # [06:57] <tw2113> if it finds <!DOCTYPE html>, do this, else, do that
- # [06:58] <cgcardona> and that isn't working good enough?
- # [06:58] <tw2113> nope, it doesn't seem to be keeping with the >'s
- # [06:59] <cgcardona> can you use < > ?
- # [06:59] <tw2113> and all the doctype have "!DOCTYPE html"
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- # [06:59] <cgcardona> good point
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- # [07:00] <tw2113> keeps giving me deliminator errors
- # [07:02] <cgcardona> tw2113: what about this? http://txt2re.com/index-php.php3?s=%3C!doctype%20html%3E&-1
- # [07:04] <tw2113> i'll give it a shot
- # [07:04] <cgcardona> thus said the junkie
- # [07:04] <tw2113> badum ching
- # [07:05] <tw2113> i already found a way around content scraping everything
- # [07:06] <tw2113> curlopt_rage = 1-150 bytes
- # [07:06] <cgcardona> road_rage = 150 fights
- # [07:07] <cgcardona> do you have any idea how often wordpress has a security update (on average)?
- # [07:07] <cgcardona> my boss just wants some type of figure
- # [07:07] <tw2113> usually when they're detected and how critical it is
- # [07:08] <tw2113> if it's low and won't do much, they'll just build the fix in or i assume add to a queue for a security push
- # [07:08] <tw2113> but if they find a big one, they'll push right away after fixing
- # [07:08] <cgcardona> i'm looking for a log but can't locate it
- # [07:09] <cgcardona> here we go http://codex.wordpress.org/Changelog
- # [07:10] <cgcardona> google "wordpress changelog" and who knows what you might find :-/
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- # [07:19] <tw2113> grr
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- # [07:20] <tw2113> fuck "experts-exchange.com" too
- # [07:26] <cgcardona> tw2113: how come?
- # [07:26] <cgcardona> bad advice?
- # [07:27] <tw2113> they're just crap in general without any solid base of evidence
- # [07:27] <tw2113> they annoy me with their generally good google results standing and making you pay to get the results
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- # [07:31] <NiftyLettuce> ello
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- # [07:38] <cgcardona> howdy
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- # [08:37] <NiftyLettuce> paul_irish_: yt? quick ?
- # [08:38] <tw2113> cgcardona give me your site url
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- # [08:40] <cgcardona> which site url? my personal url?
- # [08:40] <tw2113> any of them
- # [08:40] <tw2113> all of them
- # [08:40] <NiftyLettuce> can anyone help debug this http://www.jsfiddle.net/5JjES/ ? basically I'm trying to issue an alert whenever the x or y coord of the spotlight go inside the red box (so eventually when you mouse over one of the links the spotlight fades out
- # [08:40] <NiftyLettuce> woops wrong chan
- # [08:43] <NiftyLettuce> oh snap
- # [08:43] <NiftyLettuce> im a dummy
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- # [09:43] <antonkovalyov> hey guys
- # [09:43] <antonkovalyov> not sure if anybody's here right now but anyways
- # [09:43] <antonkovalyov> i don't remember who exactly but somebody was wondering about san francisco javascript meetup the other day
- # [09:44] <antonkovalyov> i spoke to matt (organizer of the js meetup) today and he wants to organize one in february. so if you want to talk, let me know
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- # [09:52] <tw2113> i'm about to go to bed, but i'll say hi at least antonkovalyov
- # [09:52] <antonkovalyov> ohai
- # [09:52] <antonkovalyov> sleep is for sissies
- # [09:52] <tw2113> i know
- # [09:52] <tw2113> consider me a girl
- # [09:53] <tw2113> to make up for it, know that with curl and some preg_match, i can now decently effectively sniff for doctypes
- # [09:54] <antonkovalyov> oh neat
- # [09:54] <antonkovalyov> you earned 8 hours of sleep then, haha
- # [09:54] <antonkovalyov> (sorry, i am intoxicated right now)
- # [09:54] <tw2113> regex made me want to give myself a haircut
- # [09:54] <jeffszusz> regular expressions would make anyone want to cut things
- # [09:55] <tw2113> more or less, i have nested preg_matches
- # [09:55] <tw2113> first one looks in a curl return of 150bytes for any instance of DOCTYPE
- # [09:55] <tw2113> second one looks for "html p" with case insensitive searching
- # [09:56] <tw2113> and since html5 doctype has "html>", it returns negative, and the rest return either no doctype or positive, and that's all i needed anyway
- # [09:56] <tw2113> html5 vs the rest vs none
- # [09:56] <jeffszusz> hm
- # [09:57] <jeffszusz> why do you need to do that? if you write the doc you know what doctype it is
- # [09:57] <tw2113> if anyone thinks of a better way, or perhaps a way to regex "html>", i'd greatly appreciate the string to use
- # [09:57] <tw2113> but this is for an hcard plugin for wordpress, and i can't know who's going to use which
- # [09:57] <jeffszusz> ohhh
- # [09:58] <tw2113> general plan is...if html5 doctype, tack on the hcard profile link to the wp_head()
- # [09:58] <tw2113> if not, leave a note somewhere saying to apply the profile link to the <head> tag
- # [09:59] <tw2113> :D
- # [09:59] <tw2113> and maybe "come with me if you want to live" in an austrian accent
- # [10:00] <tw2113> anyways, i've rambled enough and it's 3am
- # [10:00] <tw2113> night
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- # [10:00] <jeffszusz> llol
- # [10:01] <cgcardona> haha
- # [10:03] <cgcardona> what a cool guy
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- # [10:17] <antonkovalyov> hey people
- # [10:17] <antonkovalyov> what statistical data from sites are you interested in?
- # [10:18] <antonkovalyov> disqus is installed on tons of websites and i am going to gather some nice data (libraries on the page, their versions, built-in objects redefined, etc.)
- # [10:18] <antonkovalyov> if you have something interesting in mind you want to gather from half a million websites or 350 mln unique monthly visitors, let me know
- # [10:19] <antonkovalyov> that's my projects for next week and the data will be ready in a month
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- # [10:22] <HAITI> that sounds very interesting anton
- # [10:22] <antonkovalyov> yeah i am pretty excited about that
- # [10:22] <mikew3c> antonkovalyov: might be worth posting to the whatwg mailing list to ask
- # [10:23] <mikew3c> http://lists.whatwg.org/listinfo.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org
- # [10:23] <antonkovalyov> mikew3c, will do tomorrow
- # [10:24] <antonkovalyov> let me just write it down so i don't forget
- # [10:28] <mikew3c> antonkovalyov: some of the kinds of stats that have been useful in the work on the html5 spec -
- # [10:28] <mikew3c> http://code.google.com/webstats/index.html
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- # [10:29] <mikew3c> and data like the Opera MAMA reports
- # [10:29] <mikew3c> http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/mama/
- # [10:29] <mikew3c> e.g., http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/mama-phrase-block-list/#phrase
- # [10:30] <antonkovalyov> awesome
- # [10:30] <mikew3c> and more:
- # [10:30] <mikew3c> http://philip.html5.org/data.html
- # [10:34] <antonkovalyov> thanks man. i skimmed over those pages, don't know if it is a good idea to gather all at once. but i am pretty sure i will be able to get some very useful info.
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- # [18:58] <monteslu> paul_irish_, just noticed the network tab in chrome 9 beta. Huge improvement.
- # [18:59] <monteslu> if it could show json as a sub tab it would be pretty much be on par with firebug's net stuff
- # [18:59] <monteslu> thoght its probably good enough now to be my main dev browser
- # [19:00] <monteslu> s/thoght/though
- # [19:01] <sean`> man, chrome is my dev browser for months now
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- # [19:25] <cgcardona> chrome is a golden god
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- # [20:28] <tw2113> :D
- # [20:32] <cgcardona> :D indeed
- # [20:32] <thatryan> :D ++
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- # [22:30] <HAITI> foals - blue blood
- # [22:32] <krijnh> tw2113: the video for that presentation is also up btw, http://fronteers.nl/congres/2010/sessions/reasons-to-be-cheerful-chris-heilmann
- # [22:32] <tw2113> woo
- # [22:33] <tw2113> *downloads*
- # [22:33] <krijnh> :)
- # [22:34] <krijnh> Vimeo has better quality
- # [22:34] <tw2113> i was tempted for the webm...but went for the ogv
- # [22:34] <krijnh> But all webdevs should watch this
- # [22:35] <krijnh> (Same with http://fronteers.nl/congres/2010/sessions/reusable-code-for-good-or-for-awesome-jake-archibald btw :P)
- # [22:36] <tw2113> mmmmm qdoba mexican grill tacos
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- # [22:40] <krijnh> (And of course paul_irish_'s thingy: http://fronteers.nl/congres/2010/sessions/the-state-of-html5-inaugural-address-paul-irish - enough spamming for doay)
- # [22:40] <krijnh> (How can you get from today to doay? :S)
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- # [23:29] <thatryan> paul_irish: lol do you dance each time you are on stage? :)
- # [23:35] <paul_irish> it's likely.
- # [23:35] <bot-t> (6 hours 18 mins ago) <Peter-> tell paul_irish registerProtocolHandler (and registerContentHandler for that matter) were removed from WebKit in July, following crbug.com/44984. Not sure if that is still relevant for your UD list.
- # [23:35] <paul_irish> thx bot-t
- # [23:35] <bot-t> paul_irish, I'm a bot you know..
- # [23:35] <paul_irish> i kno.
- # [23:36] <thatryan> lol
- # [23:36] <tw2113> ?8ball did paul_irish really know you were a bot?
- # [23:36] <bot-t> Ask again later.
- # [23:36] <tw2113> ?8ball did paul_irish really know you were a bot?
- # [23:36] <bot-t> You may rely on it.
- # [23:37] <tw2113> just checking
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- # [23:37] <thatryan> almost seems like bot has a personality
- # [23:39] <paul_irish> bot-t's a best friend.
- # [23:39] <tw2113> ?8ball did bot-t actually come up with the idea for modernizr?
- # [23:39] <bot-t> Yes.
- # [23:39] <tw2113> :O conspiracy
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- # [23:40] <thatryan> lol
- # [23:40] <tw2113> ?8ball did bot-t start the whatwg in direct opposition to the w3c?
- # [23:40] <bot-t> Signs point to yes.
- # [23:41] <tw2113> :O :O again
- # [23:41] <tw2113> bot-t is taking over the internet
- # [23:44] <tw2113> wow http://muppetswithpeopleeyes.tumblr.com/
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- # Session Close: Mon Jan 10 00:00:00 2011
The end :)