/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-01-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jan 17 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:00] <chriseppstein> cross posting ftl
  4. # [00:00] <chriseppstein> :{
  5. # [00:00] <nimbupani> OOPS :)
  6. # [00:00] <NiftyLettuce> chriseppstein: :( lol
  7. # [00:02] <paul_irish> pwned
  8. # [00:04] <thatryan> cross posting?
  9. # [00:04] <paul_irish> bitch likes my watermelon. http://paulirish.com/i/7080.png
  10. # [00:05] <nimbupani> more like your watermelon FACE
  11. # [00:05] <thatryan> lol what the hell
  12. # [00:05] <nimbupani> and shush
  13. # [00:05] <thatryan> you are very handsome (handsome)
  14. # [00:05] <nimbupani> why are you posting it in a public forum with her email :(
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  16. # [00:05] <nimbupani> TERRIBLE
  17. # [00:05] <thatryan> ha
  18. # [00:07] <paul_irish> whoops.
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  20. # [00:08] <antonkovalyov> wtf have i just read
  21. # [00:09] <paul_irish> (she is talking about the background of my twitter which is this http://www.artlebedev.com/posters/watermelon/watermelon-1280x1024.jpg
  22. # [00:09] <antonkovalyov> i understood that
  23. # [00:09] <antonkovalyov> i did not understand everything else
  24. # [00:09] <chriseppstein> SO HANDSOME
  25. # [00:09] <paul_irish> me neither!
  26. # [00:10] <thatryan> handsome handsome!
  27. # [00:10] <antonkovalyov> also, i remember that art.lebedev's wallpaper
  28. # [00:11] <antonkovalyov> they have some awesome stuff there http://www.artlebedev.ru/studio/posters/
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  34. # [00:14] * chriseppstein has to run some errands and play with his girl. laters!
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  46. # [00:57] * antonkovalyov has to run some errands and play xbox. laters!
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  53. # [01:07] <paul_irish> merk: mark?
  54. # [01:07] <merk> yo
  55. # [01:07] <merk> hows it going
  56. # [01:07] <paul_irish> good good.
  57. # [01:07] <merk> thanks for getting back to me
  58. # [01:08] <merk> stumbled across your w3fools stuff today
  59. # [01:08] <merk> interesting reading no doubt
  60. # [01:08] <merk> irony is
  61. # [01:08] * Quits: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-txmhxbyaffcyxbps) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  62. # [01:08] <merk> i just taught 2 intro to web classes yesterday
  63. # [01:08] <merk> and left them on the parting note
  64. # [01:08] <merk> that they should take a good look into w3schools
  65. # [01:08] <paul_irish> hahaha. :)
  66. # [01:08] <merk> before next week's class
  67. # [01:08] <merk> ha
  68. # [01:08] <merk> so in a nutshell
  69. # [01:09] <merk> obviously i think your entire site has merit
  70. # [01:09] <merk> my concern is the user-friendliness of the resources you are pointing people out to
  71. # [01:09] <paul_irish> mine too.
  72. # [01:09] <merk> the overwhelming positive about the w3schools thing
  73. # [01:09] <paul_irish> there are big UX and SEO issues with the better resources.
  74. # [01:09] <merk> is the whole try-it-yourself sections
  75. # [01:09] <merk> precisely
  76. # [01:10] <merk> so im just trying to do my due diligence here
  77. # [01:10] <thatryan> could we make a better school? like what w3schools should have been?
  78. # [01:10] <paul_irish> damn it.. heillman isn't online.
  79. # [01:10] * Joins: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-cwbpnyosejakrncx)
  80. # [01:10] <merk> and seeing if i could get some thoughts or other resources that might be as welcoming
  81. # [01:10] <merk> hmm
  82. # [01:10] <paul_irish> i talked to the MDC guys a little bit about this
  83. # [01:11] <merk> interesting
  84. # [01:11] <merk> me and my colleagues run this volunteer training center here in toronto
  85. # [01:11] <paul_irish> it'd be good to write up a post-mortem on this with action items for them
  86. # [01:11] <merk> and slowly we have been trying to consolidate resources
  87. # [01:11] <merk> and put them online in an accessible way
  88. # [01:11] <merk> i would love to be involved in any of these types of discussions
  89. # [01:12] <merk> tho it is a shame that the folks at w3schools arent open to working with yall
  90. # [01:12] <merk> since they already have some good momentum
  91. # [01:12] <paul_irish> yeahhh
  92. # [01:12] <Pewpewarrows> paul_irish: although still in alpha(?), maybe offer MDC integration with jsfiddle?
  93. # [01:13] <paul_irish> merk: maybe..... i should properly email them and say... "will you do X Y Z? if so. i'd be happy to tell everyone that w3schools might actually be legit"
  94. # [01:14] <paul_irish> Pewpewarrows: yah jsfiddle everyyyywhere
  95. # [01:14] <thatryan> i have a jsfiddle in my pants
  96. # [01:14] <thatryan> wait..
  97. # [01:15] <merk> i would be interested to know what the feedback would be
  98. # [01:15] <merk> i just can't see any way of not encouraging people to check out w3schools still
  99. # [01:15] <merk> at this point in time
  100. # [01:15] <merk> and the perspective i am talking from here
  101. # [01:15] <thatryan> what did you say is the problem with the other resources?
  102. # [01:16] <merk> is spending time with 35 students between 18 and 23 who arent fully convinced they need to be taking a web course in their college program
  103. # [01:16] <merk> the problem with the other resources is that they are about as welcoming as a hospital waiting room
  104. # [01:17] <thatryan> ah lol gotcha
  105. # [01:17] <obert-> what's wrong with w3c?
  106. # [01:17] <merk> URL?
  107. # [01:17] <paul_irish> see? :)
  108. # [01:17] <paul_irish> that, merk, is why we did this.
  109. # [01:17] <obert-> w3.org
  110. # [01:18] <thatryan> ha
  111. # [01:18] <paul_irish> ?g w3fools @ obert-
  112. # [01:18] <bot-t> obert-, W3Fools Takes on W3Schools - http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/01/w3fools-takes-on-w3schools.php
  113. # [01:18] <merk> lol
  114. # [01:18] <paul_irish> fuck rww. usurping my SEO
  115. # [01:18] <obert-> ?
  116. # [01:18] <merk> w3.org just had a js error alert box pop up
  117. # [01:19] <obert-> w3schools is a table based layout
  118. # [01:19] <merk> indeed
  119. # [01:19] <merk> but it has a lot of playgrounds
  120. # [01:19] <merk> students love playgrounds
  121. # [01:19] <merk> w3.org is cold
  122. # [01:19] <obert-> http://jsbin.com
  123. # [01:19] <paul_irish> merk: yeah thats fine.
  124. # [01:20] <merk> i would still put w3schools in front of people 10 times out of 10 before that
  125. # [01:20] <obert-> Syntax Errors in the example --> http://xrl.us/bfxwd | Complete bullshit -> http://xrl.us/bfxwf | Can't get it even more wrong if tried --> http://xrl.us/bfxwh
  126. # [01:20] <merk> the streamlined process of: HTML tag list -> resource page -> Try it Yourself
  127. # [01:20] <merk> is great on w3schools
  128. # [01:20] <merk> argh
  129. # [01:20] <obert-> sigh
  130. # [01:20] <merk> the dilemmas of life
  131. # [01:21] <merk> somebody gimme their phone number
  132. # [01:21] <merk> ill phone them right now
  133. # [01:21] <obert-> i really need just to know if an element is block or inline and check css properties
  134. # [01:21] <merk> tell them to come in here
  135. # [01:21] <merk> and lets straighten them out
  136. # [01:21] <obert-> other than that would be so confusing:P
  137. # [01:22] <obert-> and in 2011..talking about w3schools still? :P
  138. # [01:22] <thatryan> hey paul_irish
  139. # [01:22] <paul_irish> ?
  140. # [01:22] <thatryan> what can I do to help? anything? ;)
  141. # [01:22] <obert-> gimme some html5 examples
  142. # [01:23] <paul_irish> write a postmortem to share with MDC & sitepoint
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  145. # [01:24] <thatryan> as in "the death of" w3school
  146. # [01:24] <thatryan> ?
  147. # [01:25] <paul_irish> no a project summary
  148. # [01:25] <paul_irish> lessons learned.
  149. # [01:26] <thatryan> lessons learned from this w3fools project?
  150. # [01:26] <merk> i would love to help out putting something together that we can all be comfortable with
  151. # [01:26] <merk> now i got to walk into class next week
  152. # [01:26] <merk> and tell my students that there is a shit storm brewing
  153. # [01:26] <merk> and to use the w3schools site
  154. # [01:26] <merk> but be cautious
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  157. # [01:27] <Pewpewarrows> hmm I just stumbled upon dottoro.com
  158. # [01:27] * ben_c1 is now known as ben_c
  159. # [01:27] <Pewpewarrows> helpdottoro.com
  160. # [01:27] <Pewpewarrows> dammit, help.dottoro.com
  161. # [01:28] <Pewpewarrows> no idea how accurate it is
  162. # [01:28] <paul_irish> merk: i do not expect to be creating a new site.
  163. # [01:29] <paul_irish> there really only two actionable vectors from here
  164. # [01:29] <thatryan> what are they
  165. # [01:30] <merk> word
  166. # [01:30] <merk> sites are big efforts
  167. # [01:30] <paul_irish> 1) w3schools gets their issues fixed. they improve their inaccuracy reporting workflow (or wikify)
  168. # [01:31] <paul_irish> 2) mdc and other trusted resources do a few things a) capture the beginner audience better with new content b) improve seo c) improve onsite UX
  169. # [01:31] <merk> which of the 2 do you think is more likely to occur?
  170. # [01:32] <merk> it seems that yall are at least on the w3s radar
  171. # [01:32] <merk> if they are fixing some of the things you are bringing up
  172. # [01:33] <merk> and if they are being unresponsive, it is good you brought up the illegitimacy of their 'certificates'
  173. # [01:33] <merk> because that would be their bread and butter i would assume
  174. # [01:35] <paul_irish> both things *should* happen. the first seems easier to me.
  175. # [01:36] <merk> tru story
  176. # [01:37] <alrra> paul_irish: what is the plan with the @w3fools ?
  177. # [01:40] <pluma> merk: what makes you think w3fools is on their radar?
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  179. # [01:40] <paul_irish> pluma: from the RWW reporter who emailed the for comment on it
  180. # [01:41] <pluma> RWW?
  181. # [01:41] <jeffsz_laptop> readwriteweb
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  183. # [01:41] <paul_irish> see link from above.
  184. # [01:41] <alcuadrado> does anyone know a javascript unit testing library that works in the normal browser <script> and webworkers?
  185. # [01:41] <merk> based on what was said about some of the errors on w3schools being corrected after they were pointed out on the w3fools site
  186. # [01:41] <merk> i guess thats an assumption
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  188. # [01:42] <pluma> paul_irish: thanks
  189. # [01:44] <paul_irish> alcuadrado: hmmm good question. i bet you should look at ones that work in node.js and in browser.
  190. # [01:44] <paul_irish> http://oksoclap.com/w3foolspostmortem
  191. # [01:47] <merk> nice
  192. # [01:48] <alcuadrado> good suggestion paul_irish, i'll check them in a minute, if not, I would modify one of them, as I'm planning to do some work with webworkers =)
  193. # [01:52] <thatryan> oksoclap that looks like a cool app
  194. # [01:52] <thatryan> im heading to church right now paul_irish but i will contribute on that when i get back!
  195. # [01:52] <paul_irish> k
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  199. # [02:05] <merk> thanks for taking the time to chat folks
  200. # [02:05] <merk> ill keep an eye open for new stuff going on here
  201. # [02:05] <merk> Peace
  202. # [02:05] <paul_irish> tttyl merk
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  215. # [02:34] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: man that russian translation is blowin up
  216. # [02:34] <paul_irish> :D
  217. # [02:35] <antonkovalyov> in bad sense or good sense?
  218. # [02:35] <obert-> irc attitude is a must:P
  219. # [02:36] <paul_irish> good sense. http://paulirish.com/i/0cd1.png
  220. # [02:37] <antonkovalyov> awesome :)
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  222. # [02:39] <antonkovalyov> what can i say
  223. # [02:39] <antonkovalyov> russian people love html6
  224. # [02:39] <antonkovalyov> html5
  225. # [02:39] <antonkovalyov> haha
  226. # [02:40] <antonkovalyov> why 5 and 6 keys are so close to each other
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  228. # [02:46] <paul_irish> somebody should do something about that.
  229. # [02:47] <obert-> the Master is arrived!!
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  231. # [02:52] <antonkovalyov> we need a keyboard that changes keys each time after you type
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  233. # [02:58] <pluma> paul_irish: wait a minute, are they serious about these css features in webkit? are they in the specs at all?
  234. # [02:59] <paul_irish> specs are being published simultaneously
  235. # [02:59] <pluma> neat
  236. # [02:59] <paul_irish> it's all very experimental right now
  237. # [02:59] <paul_irish> some of the syntax might change
  238. # [02:59] <pluma> I was pretty sure we'd never see anything like sass in the browser.
  239. # [03:01] <pluma> "el.style.values.color.red" <-- damn, I told avk in 2004 that this wasn't going to be possible in CSS because it's silly. OTOH I was 18 at the time.
  240. # [03:03] <pluma> Hmm... okay, I like what I see. let's hope the dust settles soon, so we can start experimenting with this in the wild somewhat reliably.
  241. # [03:06] <paul_irish> yeahhhh!
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  247. # [03:15] <jeffsz_laptop> crap, the Russians are already using HTML6?
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  249. # [03:15] <jeffsz_laptop> we're so behind
  250. # [03:15] <jeffsz_laptop> ;)
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  258. # [03:29] <kavelot> how can I print a text aligned to the right in a canvas?
  259. # [03:30] <paul_irish> there is no .. text handling in canvas
  260. # [03:30] <paul_irish> so like.. you want text to wrap lines? you have to do that yourself.
  261. # [03:31] <paul_irish> so.. you have to calculate the width of the text yourself.. and position it on the canvas to what would make it look right aligned
  262. # [03:32] <kavelot> hm, I found a textAlign property of the canvas
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  264. # [03:34] <paul_irish> ORLY
  265. # [03:34] <paul_irish> ?g canvas cheat sheet html
  266. # [03:34] <bot-t> paul_irish, HTML5 Canvas Cheat Sheet - Nihilogic - http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2009/02/html5-canvas-cheat-sheet.html
  267. # [03:36] <mikew3c> dudes at http://rumpetroll.com/ likes them class attribute a lot … view source/inspect that page & check out the value of the class attribute on the html element
  268. # [03:36] <mikew3c> norwegians are nuts, basically
  269. # [03:37] <paul_irish> mikew3c: that's modernizr + typekit
  270. # [03:37] <mikew3c> you never know what they are going to come up with
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  272. # [03:37] <mikew3c> paul_irish: really?
  273. # [03:37] <paul_irish> yup
  274. # [03:37] <mikew3c> why?
  275. # [03:37] <mikew3c> why you got to do that with class
  276. # [03:37] <paul_irish> both put classes on <html> for authors to style based
  277. # [03:38] <mikew3c> to say what features it uses
  278. # [03:38] <paul_irish> ya
  279. # [03:38] <mikew3c> ah
  280. # [03:38] <paul_irish> .no-canvas div#getagoodbrowseryouschmuck { display : block; }
  281. # [03:39] <jeffszusz> lol
  282. # [03:39] <mikew3c> http://rumpetroll.com/wtfisrumpetroll/
  283. # [03:39] <paul_irish> the typekit ones (google webfont loader) let you fix the FOUT issues
  284. # [03:39] <mikew3c> rumpetroll means "ass troll"
  285. # [03:39] <mikew3c> ok
  286. # [03:41] <mikew3c> hmm, django port to node
  287. # [03:41] <mikew3c> https://github.com/drtyhbo/drty
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  290. # [03:49] <obert-> lol http://www.colorzilla.com/gradient-editor/
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  293. # [03:55] <jeffszusz> 'dirty hobo' ?
  294. # [03:55] <jeffszusz> what kind of name is that for a project lol
  295. # [03:56] <jeffszusz> somehow I think adoption rate is going to be rather low for that one.
  296. # [03:56] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: +++ OK ATH OK)
  297. # [04:06] <daleharvey> so doing a mobile web app inside a uiwebview on android, want to make sure that stuff is saved when hitting the back button
  298. # [04:06] <daleharvey> only way I can think is if its possible to save inside onunload
  299. # [04:06] <daleharvey> *onbeforeunload
  300. # [04:07] <alcuadrado> HTML5 needs an API for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uef17zOCDb8
  301. # [04:09] * Quits: agu10^ (~sbd@190.244.100.66) (Quit: Leaving)
  302. # [04:13] <jeffszusz> lol
  303. # [04:13] <jeffszusz> those are so creepy
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  306. # [04:47] <danbeam> obert: what do you think of the Colorzilla gradient editor?
  307. # [04:47] <danbeam> (what does lol mean? good or bad?)
  308. # [04:49] * Parts: ONEBOYS (~army_one_@58.210.137.42)
  309. # [04:55] <danbeam> obert: my boss wrote it (as well as Colorzilla), that's why I ask, haha
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  311. # [04:57] <obert-> no idea,just found
  312. # [04:57] <danbeam> ah, ok
  313. # [04:57] <obert-> dunno about compatibility
  314. # [04:57] <danbeam> compatibility meaning what?
  315. # [04:57] <danbeam> cross-browser?
  316. # [04:57] <obert-> ie6 vs css3 for instance
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  318. # [04:58] <danbeam> yeah, I see - I think the first line falls back everywhere
  319. # [04:58] <danbeam> and I think he's adding -ms-filter for news IEs (IE8/9 I think...)
  320. # [04:58] <danbeam> new IEs*
  321. # [04:59] <obert-> mhm no idea:p
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  323. # [05:00] <danbeam> I think I tried it for him in IE6-9, FF2-4, Opera 8-11, Chrome (normal, dev channels)
  324. # [05:00] <obert-> so tired
  325. # [05:00] <danbeam> think it'll work
  326. # [05:00] <obert-> yes doesnt sounds so for productive way
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  328. # [05:01] <obert-> to be for production:P
  329. # [05:02] <danbeam> uh, word
  330. # [05:02] * danbeam is now known as danbeam|away
  331. # [05:02] <obert-> bye
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  346. # [05:39] <mikew3c> ah brilliant
  347. # [05:39] <mikew3c> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/16/angry-badly-written.html
  348. # [05:41] <thatryan> yay public pad! that is sweet
  349. # [05:43] <jeffszusz> ahahahaha
  350. # [05:43] <jeffszusz> mikew3c: that's fantastic
  351. # [05:44] <mikew3c> yah fun stuff
  352. # [05:45] <jeffszusz> the narrator's voice is excellent.
  353. # [05:45] <jeffszusz> I wish I sounded like that. I'd make youtube videos about -everything-
  354. # [05:51] <jeffszusz> the game he was ranting about was pretty interesting
  355. # [05:51] <jeffszusz> Super Press-Space-To-Win Action RPG
  356. # [05:52] <mikew3c> the narrator is apparently http://d-mac-double.newgrounds.com/
  357. # [05:52] <mikew3c> http://www.devenmack.com/
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  359. # [05:54] <jeffszusz> lol
  360. # [05:59] <mikew3c> http://www.myspace.com/dmac_pizzacat
  361. # [05:59] <mikew3c> 22 years old
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  363. # [06:03] <thatryan> whats the difference between chrome and chromium on mac?
  364. # [06:06] <jeffszusz> i don't know of any difference other than one has the logos and such filed off
  365. # [06:07] <jeffszusz> but there could be more. not sure.
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  368. # [06:14] <antonkovalyov> thatryan, chromium does not have google services builtin (app store, etc.)
  369. # [06:14] <thatryan> antonkovalyov: gotcha, thanks
  370. # [06:15] <antonkovalyov> wait nvm
  371. # [06:15] <antonkovalyov> i just opened chromium and it has chrome web store
  372. # [06:15] <thatryan> ive never even looked at the chrome web store yet, heh, what is it like pay for extensions?
  373. # [06:15] <antonkovalyov> but i think it is not supposed to
  374. # [06:15] <antonkovalyov> thatryan, they have really nice html5 apps in there
  375. # [06:15] <antonkovalyov> like nytimes — awesome web app
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  378. # [06:17] <antonkovalyov> thatryan, anyway, chromium should not have google branded stuff in it (cc paul_irish)
  379. # [06:17] <antonkovalyov> don't know why app store is there
  380. # [06:20] <thatryan> what is chromium?
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  390. # [07:27] <Evet> anyone played with processing.js?
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  398. # [08:01] <cgcardona> Why isn't there an annual "Update your browser" day? It could be the day that all web developers update as many browsers as possible. We can have competitions with prizes for the most browsers updated. We need an official spokesperson for this cause. ahem *nudge paul_irish - I know you're busy with w3fools - but I say the next meme should be an annual "Update your browser day"
  399. # [08:02] <paul_irish> what do i do as a chrome user
  400. # [08:02] <cgcardona> well as a chrome user obviously you are stoked - but it could be for all the rest of the world not on chrome
  401. # [08:02] <cgcardona> that can be part of the prize - how many people can you get to upgrade to a modern browser
  402. # [08:03] <cgcardona> upgrade your browser - free your mind
  403. # [08:04] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@91.182.129.139)
  404. # [08:05] <Neiluj> upgrade your browser - save a web developer
  405. # [08:05] <cgcardona> what would be the best time of year to do it?
  406. # [08:06] <Neiluj> the day with most of people online
  407. # [08:07] <cgcardona> wonder when that is?
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  409. # [08:07] <cgcardona> "cyber monday?"
  410. # [08:07] <Neiluj> ;)
  411. # [08:07] <Neiluj> dunno
  412. # [08:08] <cgcardona> but that's a shopping day - would it be smart to piggy back another action (upgrading browsers) onto that day?
  413. # [08:08] * Joins: HT (~ht@ip3e83ff64.speed.planet.nl)
  414. # [08:08] <Neiluj> people would probably be reticent to do update this day...
  415. # [08:09] <cgcardona> yeah
  416. # [08:10] <antonkovalyov> installing flash player :'-(
  417. # [08:11] <cgcardona> what would be the upgrade your browser day mascot?
  418. # [08:12] <cgcardona> benny the browser
  419. # [08:12] <cgcardona> ?
  420. # [08:12] <cgcardona> how do you visually and creatively show a browser that needs to be updated?
  421. # [08:12] <cgcardona> visually old?
  422. # [08:12] <Neiluj> crying
  423. # [08:12] <paul_irish> ?g whatbrowser.org
  424. # [08:12] <bot-t> paul_irish, What Browser? - Try a New Browser - http://www.whatbrowser.org/en/browser/
  425. # [08:14] <cgcardona> also how would you keep track of how many you updated? a browser extension that you install each time?
  426. # [08:14] <cgcardona> it would be good to digitally track that so you could have metrics of how many browsers were updated
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  428. # [08:15] <cgcardona> that would actually be pretty cool
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  430. # [08:16] <cgcardona> if each time you got someone to update to chrome or FF or safari you installed a plugin and put in your code or something and it tracked how many you updated
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  432. # [08:17] <thatryan> hey I made a site kinda like that, trying to edge peeps away from old IE :)
  433. # [08:17] <thatryan> http://browsingbetter.com/
  434. # [08:17] <cgcardona> dude this rocks :)
  435. # [08:17] <cgcardona> so we are off to a start -
  436. # [08:18] <paul_irish> hot pink
  437. # [08:18] <thatryan> heh thanks
  438. # [08:18] <cgcardona> whachu mean paul_irish ?
  439. # [08:18] <thatryan> highlight text is hot ;)
  440. # [08:18] <cgcardona> oh snap
  441. # [08:18] <cgcardona> haha
  442. # [08:18] <cgcardona> hot
  443. # [08:18] <thatryan> though I do wish I could design better lol
  444. # [08:19] <cgcardona> actually I dig how this is all one long page
  445. # [08:19] <cgcardona> that scrolls up and down when you click the buttons
  446. # [08:19] <thatryan> yeah thats fun :)
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  449. # [08:20] <cgcardona> so has anyone tried to get a bunch of people to upgrade browsers all at once on one day before that I should be aware of?
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  451. # [08:20] <Neiluj> thatryan: you should put links to anchors on bad/good points :)
  452. # [08:20] <thatryan> Neiluj: like menu item type links directly to the list stuff?
  453. # [08:21] <Neiluj> yup
  454. # [08:21] <Neiluj> #you-dont-know-how :P
  455. # [08:21] <thatryan> good idea thanks, ill do that tomorrow morning!
  456. # [08:21] <thatryan> lol yes
  457. # [08:21] <thatryan> thank you
  458. # [08:21] <Neiluj> thanks to you ;)
  459. # [08:22] <Neiluj> I wish you have a french version I could redirect my
  460. # [08:22] <Neiluj> visitors to
  461. # [08:22] <Neiluj> :P
  462. # [08:22] <thatryan> lol I wish I spoke french so I could make one :D
  463. # [08:23] <Neiluj> put it on github ;)
  464. # [08:23] <thatryan> ah, did not think of that!
  465. # [08:23] <Neiluj> so I can fork
  466. # [08:23] <thatryan> cool ill do that tomorrow too
  467. # [08:23] <cgcardona> nice
  468. # [08:23] <thatryan> also, will give me excuse to learn how to use github more ha
  469. # [08:23] <cgcardona> Neiluj: can't you wget it all?
  470. # [08:24] <Neiluj> cgcardona: lazyyyyy :p
  471. # [08:24] <Neiluj> and I'm not the only french man in the place ;)
  472. # [08:24] <thatryan> one day ill learn a second language :p
  473. # [08:25] <cgcardona> gotcha
  474. # [08:25] <thatryan> heh someone viewed the source on my new site redesign and tweeted one of my code comments
  475. # [08:25] <thatryan> https://twitter.com/#!/ohaibbq/status/26817672331141120
  476. # [08:25] <twitterhapy> http://bit.ly/ih8IfQ @OhaiBBQ -- @ryanolson &lt;!-- FUCK INTERNET EXPLORER --&gt; +1
  477. # [08:25] <cgcardona> sweet
  478. # [08:26] <Neiluj> it happened to me too ;) I wrote something like if($('html').hasClass('ie7') || $('html').hasClass('ie8')) { // no arm, no chocolate
  479. # [08:27] <Neiluj> somebody tweeted about it
  480. # [08:27] <thatryan> ha! nice
  481. # [08:27] <Neiluj> I don't know if the expression exists in english...
  482. # [08:27] <Neiluj> no arm, no chocolate is enough meaningful ? :)
  483. # [08:27] <Neiluj> it's on guetta's website
  484. # [08:27] <thatryan> well now i want chocolate
  485. # [08:29] <Neiluj> ;)
  486. # [08:29] <paul_irish> thatryan: ohaibbq is in #jquery
  487. # [08:29] <Neiluj> the worst part was inside brackets...
  488. # [08:29] <Neiluj> if($('html').hasClass('ie7') || $('html').hasClass('ie8')) {
  489. # [08:29] <Neiluj> jQuery.fx.off = true;
  490. # [08:29] <Neiluj> }
  491. # [08:29] <Neiluj> :D
  492. # [08:29] <paul_irish> good move.
  493. # [08:30] <thatryan> paul_irish: ha oh yeah? do you knwo him
  494. # [08:30] <paul_irish> yupp
  495. # [08:34] <Neiluj> paul_irish: I'm just realizing how much mothereffinghsl would have help me a few months ago ...
  496. # [08:34] <Neiluj> google maps use this instead of rgba for customization
  497. # [08:35] <Neiluj> http://www.davidguetta.com/#/tour/date/6690
  498. # [08:38] <thatryan> goodnight folks, Neiluj catch ya on github by tomorrow :D
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  501. # [08:53] <Neiluj> tomorrow is already today for me...
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  503. # [08:54] <paul_irish> Neiluj: wait did you do the daviidguitta site?
  504. # [08:54] <Neiluj> yup
  505. # [08:55] <Neiluj> not very glad of some things because the project was already late when I started but it's cool
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  508. # [08:58] <paul_irish> its a hot site
  509. # [08:59] <Neiluj> thx
  510. # [09:00] <Neiluj> as the developer, I'm self-critizing about it, it could have been better if I had more time ;)
  511. # [09:01] <Neiluj> for example, the scroll is very special on this site and could have been improved
  512. # [09:01] <Evet> cgcardona: brillant idea
  513. # [09:01] <Neiluj> I'm also sad it's not working right now on mobile devices, I'll work on a dedicated version later
  514. # [09:01] <cgcardona> Evet: thanks - whats the next step?
  515. # [09:02] <Neiluj> paul_irish: saw the hot pink ? ;)
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  517. # [09:02] <paul_irish> yah b
  518. # [09:02] <paul_irish> data:text/html,<!doctype html><pre contenteditable>
  519. # [09:02] <Evet> cgcardona: im working on apps, i will use this idea
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  528. # [09:31] <Neiluj> damn, Shadow DOM is great !
  529. # [09:36] <Neiluj> paul_irish: can you confirm something for me please ?
  530. # [09:36] <Neiluj> if webkit will get css variables, mixins, nesting... does it mean it'll be in css specs ???
  531. # [09:43] <cgcardona> tab atkins told me that he is working on getting variables in the spec Neiluj - not sure about the others
  532. # [09:45] <mikew3c> the CSS variables implementation in webkit was removed
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  534. # [09:46] <mikew3c> a couple months ago
  535. # [09:46] <mikew3c> has there been some recent discussion about re-implementing it?
  536. # [09:46] <mikew3c> some new spec for it?
  537. # [09:47] <Neiluj> mikew3c: true, I saw this feature removed because it wasn't in the specs, that's why I 'm asking now
  538. # [09:47] <Neiluj> maybe it changed ?
  539. # [09:47] * mikew3c looks at Tab slides
  540. # [09:48] <mikew3c> heh
  541. # [09:48] <Neiluj> he doesn't talk about it
  542. # [09:48] <mikew3c> CSSOM "only virtue is that it exists"
  543. # [09:49] <Neiluj> mmh...
  544. # [09:52] <mikew3c> nice presentation
  545. # [09:52] <mikew3c> cool stuff
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  549. # [10:07] <JKarsrud> hopefully webkit's implementations of vars, mixins and nesting will push other vendors to implement them as well
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  560. # [10:22] <mokush> you guys know any good resources about mobile uis?
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  564. # [10:27] <mape> Have I just been dreaming or is there an attribute that allows users to click through elements?
  565. # [10:27] <mape> Ie being able to overlay a canvas element over google maps and still being able to drag and click the map
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  567. # [10:30] <mokush> mape: never heard of such a thing. make sure your canvas is above the map
  568. # [10:31] <mape> mokush: K, thought I read it in some presentation, probly missunderstood
  569. # [10:32] <mokush> mape: maybe you could pass the coordinates where you click the canvas, over to the map bellow, but it seems like an overkill solution
  570. # [10:33] <mape> Yeah, especially when I want to allow the user to interact with an iframe under a canvas element
  571. # [10:34] <mape> oh yeah, pointer-event:none
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  574. # [10:40] <mape> *evemts
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  585. # [11:23] <paul_irish> mape: pointer-events:none;
  586. # [11:23] <paul_irish> oh you found it
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  595. # [11:56] <tuxnani> hi there anyone here worked on sketchpad?
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  615. # [12:30] <tuxnani> i want to have an implementation of this, how to do it? http://mugtug.com/sketchpad/
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  624. # [12:43] <paulrouget> tuxnani: view → page source
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  628. # [12:44] <tuxnani> paulorouget
  629. # [12:45] <tuxnani> paulorouget, its not completely comprehensive there, many components used are hidden
  630. # [12:46] <paulrouget> tuxnani: it's canvas.
  631. # [12:46] <JKarsrud> iframe it
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  635. # [12:48] <mikew3c> paulrouget: nice video (ParisWeb)
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  637. # [12:49] <mikew3c> what i've watched so far at least
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  639. # [12:49] <mikew3c> (still watching it)
  640. # [12:50] <tuxnani> mikew3c, which is that video, i was out of loop
  641. # [12:51] <mikew3c> tuxnani: http://paulrouget.com/e/paulatparisweb
  642. # [12:51] <tuxnani> paulrouget, so can i simulate such canvas>
  643. # [12:51] <paulrouget> mikew3c: thx
  644. # [12:51] <paulrouget> sorry, french inside
  645. # [12:52] <paulrouget> tuxnani: there's nothing to simulate: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/HTML/Canvas
  646. # [12:54] <mikew3c> heh, just saw Berjon in that video
  647. # [12:54] <mikew3c> and again!
  648. # [12:55] <mikew3c> why they keep showing Berjon
  649. # [12:55] <mikew3c> at that's better
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  651. # [12:55] <mikew3c> now it shows the pretty woman next to Berjon
  652. # [12:56] <mikew3c> more of her instead please
  653. # [12:56] <paulrouget> mikew3c: :)
  654. # [12:57] <nimbupani> ahem ahem
  655. # [13:00] <tuxnani> nimbupani /whois
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  662. # [13:34] <seutje> nimbupani: should do something about that cough
  663. # [13:35] <nimbupani> :)
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  667. # [13:50] * tuxnani thought nimbupani is a bot
  668. # [13:50] * tuxnani is indian and knows the meaning of nimbupani :)
  669. # [13:50] <nimbupani> ha ha tuxnani i am not
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  675. # [14:10] <tuxnani> bot?
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  677. # [14:14] <mikew3c> HTML5 has hit the big time: http://www.openpr.com/news/158592/Marco-Reversible-Pumps-Boat-Horns-Introduced-to-US-Market-via-HTML5-Portal-by-Miami-Web-Designer.html
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  679. # [14:24] <nimbupani> web 3.0 readiness
  680. # [14:24] <nimbupani> why didnt we think of that name
  681. # [14:26] <nimbupani> http://web3.0designmiami.com/
  682. # [14:26] <nimbupani> "real re$ult$"
  683. # [14:27] <mikew3c> wow
  684. # [14:28] <mikew3c> sign me up
  685. # [14:28] <mikew3c> "This Semantic Web design passes all 7 tests of Web 3.0 Readiness"
  686. # [14:31] <mikew3c> I guess part of Web 3.0 Readiness is having every page of you site be blank for a long time when the user firsts visits it, and while it's loading all the Web 3.0 goodness
  687. # [14:31] <mikew3c> it gives the user more of a sense of anticipation
  688. # [14:35] <nimbupani> :D :D
  689. # [14:37] <nimbupani> "Perhaps due to expedience more so than ineptitude, the importance of W3C standards compliance and validation has long been disregarded by many web designers. But with the advent of http://www.webredesignmiami.com/website_redesign_professionalism.php, the impact of that error on website ROI increases exponentially."
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  691. # [14:37] <nimbupani> web 3.0 http://webredesignmiami.com/website_redesign_professionalism.php
  692. # [14:38] <JKarsrud> wth is this shit?=
  693. # [14:38] <remysharp> anyone got IE9 platform 7 - I'm trying to confirm a bug
  694. # [14:38] <remysharp> ?
  695. # [14:39] <remysharp> (sorry, platform preview 7)
  696. # [14:40] <Neiluj> paulrouget: bonaldi avec un n et un i ;-)
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  702. # [15:14] <beevi7> ie9 pp7 download seems to be down
  703. # [15:14] <beevi7> http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/6/2/162D6B13-3DDA-4D49-A454-84E156643841/iepreview.msi
  704. # [15:14] <beevi7> 404 file not found
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  709. # [15:44] <Neiluj> paulrouget: done looking your speak, nice one, loved the conclusion
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  712. # [15:51] <paulrouget> Neiluj: :) thx (yeah, "bonaldi", I won't forget next time ;)
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  720. # [16:19] <Neiluj> paulrouget: did you put your demo available somewhere like github ?
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  726. # [16:29] <daleharvey> I wonder why mobile apps have carried on the tradition of putting navigation at the top, seems like its harder to reach for your thumb
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  731. # [16:46] <masondesu> Happy MLK Day, HTML5 dudes (and dudettes)
  732. # [16:47] <shichuan> daleharvey: which moible apps are you referring to?
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  734. # [16:49] <mikesusz> anyone else working today?
  735. # [16:49] <daleharvey> just most in general, notes app for iphone, foursquare, maps, twitter/facebook etc
  736. # [16:50] <masondesu> I'm working. But no class!
  737. # [16:51] <mikesusz> masondesu - some apps are confusing that way. e.g. echofon. i like it, but sometimes 'back' is an arrow at the top, and sometimes it's 'close' a button at the bottom right
  738. # [16:52] <mikesusz> wondering what context deserves 'back' and which 'close' - seems to do 'back' for images and 'close' for websites
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  740. # [16:54] <shichuan> @daleharvey: so what do you think is the better way? use a floaty bar?
  741. # [16:54] <daleharvey> well a footer navigation seems sensible
  742. # [16:55] <mikesusz> daleharvey - but, there is no quick way to scroll to bottom if you're in a long 'page' of content and want to get to the nav
  743. # [16:55] <mikesusz> if an app follows the design guidelines, clicking on the clock scrolls to top
  744. # [16:55] <daleharvey> a fixed footer, in the same way they are commonly fixed headers now
  745. # [16:56] <mikesusz> tough to sacrifice 1/8th of your UI for controls tho
  746. # [16:56] <tw2113> i don't think it's best to completely flipflop the usability notions that we have had for 15 years on the desktop
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  748. # [16:56] <Neiluj> speaking of touch ergonomy, the two-column layout in landscape for iPad is a bit wrong too
  749. # [16:56] <tw2113> i figure app designers assume people are using both hands, one to hold, the other to work with the app
  750. # [16:58] <Neiluj> as most people are right-handed, it would avoid hiding the content with our hand touching the left side of the screen
  751. # [16:58] <Neiluj> controls should mostly be on the left
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  753. # [16:58] <Neiluj> anyway, it should be a setting
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  755. # [17:00] <shichuan> there are some good designs
  756. # [17:00] <shichuan> http://labs.oreilly.com/2010/08/a-new-take-on-the-pocket-reference----public-beta-of-new-oreilly-mobile-html-app.html
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  758. # [17:01] <shichuan> it's web app but works like a native app, with mobile friendly UI
  759. # [17:02] <Neiluj> using jqtouch
  760. # [17:02] <daleharvey> Ive always wondered if it would be possible to make those arrow buttons in css
  761. # [17:03] <Neiluj> with border-image, yes, without images, it's a bit complicated :)
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  764. # [17:04] <tw2113> i know there's something like that on css-tricks.com
  765. # [17:05] <shichuan> you can create triangles in css
  766. # [17:05] <shichuan> http://hedgerwow.blogspot.com/2010/08/creating-triangle-arrows-in-pure-css.html
  767. # [17:05] <Neiluj> can't be better than border-image : it uses only one tag, one small image and that's it
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  769. # [17:05] <daleharvey> I tend to avoid using any images at all
  770. # [17:06] <Neiluj> forget it ;) it's impossible in one tag
  771. # [17:07] <Neiluj> maybe there's a way with something like a <span> inside the <a>, but image is better than useless elements
  772. # [17:09] <ben_c> if you really want a triangle: â–²
  773. # [17:09] <daleharvey> I prefer useless elements to images, its just easier editing stuff in 2 seconds in a text editor than booting up photoshop or whatever
  774. # [17:09] <tw2113> aha http://css-tricks.com/triangle-breadcrumbs/
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  778. # [17:11] <daleharvey> tw2113: ah yeh uses the same way as shichuan posted, thats awesome, cheers (both)
  779. # [17:12] <Neiluj> that's not the same effects...
  780. # [17:12] <Neiluj> no gradient, no inner & outer shadow
  781. # [17:12] <Neiluj> sorry to say that's too easy...
  782. # [17:13] <Neiluj> daleharvey: if you want text editor instead of photoshop you can use svg ;)
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  784. # [17:14] <daleharvey> borders can have gradients though, its not like I am trying this now was just curious
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  790. # [17:21] <danielfilho> howdy! :D
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  799. # [17:45] <mokush> how do you guys automaticly build(minify, compress, etc) your js apps?
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  801. # [17:48] <Pewpewarrows> mokush: in django there's an app called django-mediagenerator that automagically handles all of that for me when I flip a debug bool to false
  802. # [17:48] <Pewpewarrows> but I think I saw a tool recently for js building
  803. # [17:50] <Pewpewarrows> mokush: no idea if this could fit into your workflow, but here's a CI tool for js: https://github.com/dsimard/ready.js
  804. # [17:50] <mokush> Pewpewarrows: I'm strugglin with the requirejs build tool, but can't get to work right.
  805. # [17:51] <Pewpewarrows> oh you're using require
  806. # [17:51] <Pewpewarrows> what's the issue with it?
  807. # [17:51] <mokush> Pewpewarrows: can django-mediagenerator be used as a standalone tool?
  808. # [17:51] <Pewpewarrows> mokush: no idea, but I doubt it
  809. # [17:53] <tbranyen> mokush: perhaps i don't know why you're asking in #html5 instead of #django tho
  810. # [17:54] <mokush> tbranyen: it was a js related question
  811. # [17:54] <tbranyen> mokush: django apps aren't written in js?
  812. # [17:55] <Pewpewarrows> tbranyen: django is a python web framework
  813. # [17:55] <Pewpewarrows> I think you're thinking of node
  814. # [17:56] <tbranyen> Pewpewarrows: read the convo :|
  815. # [17:56] <tbranyen> that was a rhetorical question
  816. # [17:56] <Pewpewarrows> oh, *whoosh*
  817. # [17:57] <mokush> tbranyen: the q was about js build tools, not about django. django just came along with the build tool.
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  819. # [17:58] <tbranyen> mokush: yeah but stuff like django are so intertwined with the framework it wouldn't make sense to break them out
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  821. # [17:58] <tbranyen> you could probably write your own build tool easily enough
  822. # [17:58] <tbranyen> closure compiler can compile multiple files into a single out.js
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  824. # [18:01] <mokush> tbranyen: I wrote my own build tool right now, using closure, but it's hard to work with. especialy when I have to keep modifing parts of it.
  825. # [18:01] <mokush> tbranyen: besides that, I have to write 2 separate files, a batch and an sh, so that it can be run everywhere
  826. # [18:02] <Neiluj> daleharvey: that's the closest thing I can get ;) with 3 tags... very ugly but no images http://zeedev.aaz.fr/breadcrumb/
  827. # [18:02] <Neiluj> (work only on webkit of course...)
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  829. # [18:03] <daleharvey> wow thats pretty close, good job
  830. # [18:03] <Neiluj> thx
  831. # [18:03] <tbranyen> mokush: or pick a language that has posix support in both windows/*nix
  832. # [18:03] <tbranyen> like java :D
  833. # [18:03] <Neiluj> mokush: html5boilerplate have build tool
  834. # [18:04] <daleharvey> wtf, it looks new new Date(123345345325) is invalid on mobile webkit
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  836. # [18:09] <mikew3c> daleharvey: how so?
  837. # [18:10] <daleharvey> its actually new Date("2011-01-16T22:40:23.890Z") thats failing for me on mobile webkit (and working on every other webkit)
  838. # [18:11] <mikew3c> I guess that got implemented relatively recently
  839. # [18:11] <mikew3c> like, in the last 6 months or so
  840. # [18:11] <mikew3c> I remember seeing the patch from the guy who implemented it
  841. # [18:11] <mikew3c> for JSC
  842. # [18:11] <daleharvey> http://pastebin.me/e5341efb351f32be38034835ae388c58
  843. # [18:14] <mikew3c> daleharvey: the RFC 3339 timestamps stuff was added to JSC only 3 months ago
  844. # [18:14] <mikew3c> http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/JavaScriptCore/wtf/DateMath.cpp?rev=69833
  845. # [18:14] <mikew3c> 2010-10-14 Nathan Vander Wilt < nate@andyet.net>
  846. # [18:15] <daleharvey> well that sucks, but the way you informed me of it was pretty awesome, I rarely post a "wtf" and get pointed to the commit, thanks :)
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  850. # [18:23] <jo-erlend> it seems strange to me that the doctype now uses just "html" instead of "html5". What's the rationale for that?
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  854. # [18:24] <daleharvey> html5 is versionless
  855. # [18:25] <jo-erlend> what does that mean? They've committed to never break backwards compatibility?
  856. # [18:28] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: kind of
  857. # [18:28] <daleharvey> just means things are pretty much as they have always been, without the pretence that the version of html implemented actually matters :P
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  859. # [18:29] <jo-erlend> but doesn't that mean we'll always have to check for browser features? Forever?
  860. # [18:30] <Neiluj> don't forget some of the new features are coming from IE...
  861. # [18:30] <jo-erlend> so..?
  862. # [18:30] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: yup, forver, but Modernizr can help you
  863. # [18:30] <Neiluj> at least for CSS
  864. # [18:30] <jo-erlend> what's that?
  865. # [18:30] <Neiluj> and some API too
  866. # [18:31] <Neiluj> a lib that tell you what is supported
  867. # [18:31] <daleharvey> jo-erlend: sure, you are always going to have to do that anyway, there is no point pretending that browser vendors were ever going to stick to a rigidly defined specification
  868. # [18:31] <jo-erlend> no, but I would like to be able to use a common set of features that all browsers are known to support.
  869. # [18:32] <Neiluj> example : if(Modernizr.audio) ... or html.audio #player { ... }
  870. # [18:32] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: like what ? <a href> ?
  871. # [18:32] <Neiluj> :)
  872. # [18:32] <jo-erlend> hehe, yes, something like that. :)
  873. # [18:32] <Neiluj> well, that's HTML 1.0 ?
  874. # [18:33] <Neiluj> the thing is HTML5 is giving more features without breaking old browsers
  875. # [18:33] <Neiluj> for example <input type="range"> looks like a type="text" for non-supporting browsers
  876. # [18:33] <Neiluj> understand who can
  877. # [18:33] <jo-erlend> I don't necessarily see that as a good thing. Once in a while, it's good to break compatibility in order to get a clean break.
  878. # [18:34] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: it would mean to have 2 webs...
  879. # [18:34] <Neiluj> and so, to make 2 website instead of 1
  880. # [18:35] <jo-erlend> no, not necessarily. A browser would still support older versions of html, but wouldn't accept the use of <blink> in an html5 document, for instance.
  881. # [18:36] <Neiluj> html5 is not about removing features, but adding some :)
  882. # [18:36] <jo-erlend> I think that would be a good thing. If it's valid, then people are going to do it.
  883. # [18:36] <jo-erlend> right.
  884. # [18:36] <jo-erlend> I think this would be a very good time to remove old cruft.
  885. # [18:36] <Neiluj> like what ?
  886. # [18:37] <Neiluj> long doctype ? done !
  887. # [18:37] <Neiluj> :D
  888. # [18:37] <jo-erlend> like <blink>, <b>, <i>, <font>...
  889. # [18:37] <Neiluj> <font> is not html5
  890. # [18:37] <Neiluj> neither blink if I'm not wrong
  891. # [18:37] <jo-erlend> if you use it, then the page will still validate?
  892. # [18:37] <Neiluj> there's no real validator right now, only beta
  893. # [18:38] <jo-erlend> yes, but you seem to be saying that html5 isn't supposed to deprecate anything, so it'd still be valid html even when using the html doctype (see how strange that looks?)
  894. # [18:39] <Neiluj> the current one doesn't like <font> neither <blink>
  895. # [18:39] <jo-erlend> oh, ok. That sounds good.
  896. # [18:40] <Neiluj> well, most of the changes are about new features, but there are also old one removed
  897. # [18:40] <Neiluj> of course
  898. # [18:40] <jo-erlend> then, in reality, there is a version.
  899. # [18:40] <Neiluj> but most of those were already forbidden in HTML4 Strict you know
  900. # [18:41] <Neiluj> like blink and font if I can tell...
  901. # [18:41] <jo-erlend> I actually didn't know that.
  902. # [18:41] <Neiluj> try it http://validator.w3.org/#validate_by_input
  903. # [18:41] <Neiluj> ;)
  904. # [18:42] <Neiluj> HTML4 Strict cleaned up a bit of the mess, but browsers still understand...
  905. # [18:43] <Neiluj> on the CSS side, I don't know properties who became forbidden with CSS3, only new ones
  906. # [18:43] <Neiluj> and if browsers don't understand what it means, it will just ignore it so...
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  908. # [18:44] <jo-erlend> yes, visiting Youtube with a browser that simply ignored video would be interesting. :)
  909. # [18:44] <Neiluj> the only thing they sadly didn't change is the syntax, because it breaks compatibility
  910. # [18:44] <Neiluj> using IE is far from an interesting experience but if you like it :D
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  912. # [18:44] <jo-erlend> the syntax is pretty good, isn't it? Perhaps you're referring to case-insensitivity, etc?
  913. # [18:45] <chriseppstein> Neiluj: they're working on that now too http://www.xanthir.com/talks/2011-01-12/slides.html
  914. # [18:45] <Neiluj> nope, I'm talking about vars and nesting, like sass & less
  915. # [18:45] <Neiluj> chriseppstein: yeah I know, that's what I'm talking about ;)
  916. # [18:45] <Neiluj> there's a hope !
  917. # [18:45] <chriseppstein> :)
  918. # [18:46] <Neiluj> but it would mean to have 2 stylesheets, even if one of them can generate the second one
  919. # [18:46] <Neiluj> it's not like extending properties, it's a different parsing
  920. # [18:47] <Neiluj> would be cool if webkit also give the converted css file :D
  921. # [18:47] <Neiluj> I mean the "regular" one
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  924. # [18:48] <chriseppstein> Neiluj: that's where we come in :)
  925. # [18:49] <Neiluj> I wish I knew C better to give a hand on Webkit, it's that kind of code that freaks me out
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  934. # [18:55] <Neiluj> the web is not enough democratic, we should add our voices to the specs
  935. # [18:56] <Neiluj> they're too slow to decide, we can decide for them :)
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  957. # [19:39] <Pewpewarrows> has anyone gotten the yayQuery podcast feed to successfully load/open in the Google Listen android app?
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  960. # [19:40] <dmachi> paul_irish: have you guys defined an api for the shadow dom stuff?
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  962. # [19:41] <paul_irish> dmachi: dunno. i only know what's in dmitri's post and in the relevant changesets
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  964. # [19:41] <paul_irish> but.. i think the basic API of going in with both css selectors and dom is defined yes
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  966. # [19:41] <paul_irish> a working/experimental API
  967. # [19:42] <dmachi> paul_irish: k, thanks. Was trying to understand if it would be similar to the components that ms had proposed long ago (ref'd in one of the comments) or completely different
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  971. # [19:49] <remysharp> paul_irish: off hand, do you know if the performance bug in Chrome (might be Mac specific) with box-shadow is on the radar?
  972. # [19:49] <paul_irish> like umm. scrolling is shit while you have box-shadow on a big container?
  973. # [19:49] <remysharp> yep
  974. # [19:49] <nimbupani> its been fixed
  975. # [19:50] <remysharp> in 9?
  976. # [19:50] <paul_irish> nimbupani: no it aint
  977. # [19:50] <nimbupani> no webkit nightlies
  978. # [19:50] <nimbupani> wat
  979. # [19:50] <paul_irish> nimbupani: whatchu talkin about
  980. # [19:50] <paul_irish> i'm talkin about https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22102
  981. # [19:50] <nimbupani> the box-shadow
  982. # [19:50] <remysharp> okay, so it's on the radar, and it's not fixed :)
  983. # [19:51] <nimbupani> O
  984. # [19:51] <nimbupani> it wasnt fixed!
  985. # [19:51] <nimbupani> damn
  986. # [19:51] <nimbupani> i am cc'ed saw lots of activity so i thought it must have been fixed :P
  987. # [19:52] <paul_irish> nah. patch written though! :)
  988. # [19:53] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.210.221) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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  990. # [19:53] <nimbupani> woot
  991. # [19:54] <nimbupani> cant wait to box-shadow the html
  992. # [19:54] <felcom> yo dawg, heard you like box-shadows
  993. # [19:55] <remysharp> paul_irish: good to know it's not far off then.
  994. # [19:56] <paul_irish> yeah seriously.
  995. # [19:56] <nimbupani> html { box-shadow: 10em; }
  996. # [19:57] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  997. # [20:00] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, users report that opera 11 freezes on h5b russian as well as ie8 :-(
  998. # [20:01] <antonkovalyov> i'll check again when i have time
  999. # [20:01] <nimbupani> wat antonkovalyov
  1000. # [20:02] <antonkovalyov> nimbupani, something causes ie8 and o11 to freeze on russian (and srpski, and french) h5b versions
  1001. # [20:02] <nimbupani> i am on opera 11 and its not freezing :/
  1002. # [20:02] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@rrcs-173-198-32-131.west.biz.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1003. # [20:02] <nimbupani> the scrolling sucks
  1004. # [20:02] <antonkovalyov> reeeeallly
  1005. # [20:02] <nimbupani> yeah
  1006. # [20:03] <antonkovalyov> i don't know what surprises me more, that you are on opera or that it is not freezing there
  1007. # [20:03] <nimbupani> http://gyazo.com/d4c04171217a96594c8c819efd6204c2.png
  1008. # [20:03] <nimbupani> why is it surprising that I use Opera!
  1009. # [20:04] <antonkovalyov> you don't meet a lot of people using opera nowadays.
  1010. # [20:04] <nimbupani> ha ha maybe not in the US.
  1011. # [20:04] <antonkovalyov> the whole fan base is in russia
  1012. # [20:04] <antonkovalyov> are you from russia, nimbupani? are you?
  1013. # [20:05] <nimbupani> :D
  1014. # [20:05] <nimbupani> no i am not!
  1015. # [20:05] <nimbupani> but i have been a fan since 2002 or smthing
  1016. # [20:05] <felcom> someone give me an intermediate-level html5/js project
  1017. # [20:06] <felcom> i need content for my website =x
  1018. # [20:06] <nimbupani> ?g paul irish lazy web
  1019. # [20:06] <bot-t> nimbupani, A call for development help and research: Lazyweb Requests « Paul ... - http://paulirish.com/2010/lazyweb-requests/
  1020. # [20:06] <nimbupani> thanks botty
  1021. # [20:06] <paul_irish> felcom: https://github.com/paulirish/lazyweb-requests/issues#issue/23
  1022. # [20:06] <nimbupani> felcom: ^
  1023. # [20:06] * Joins: russinkungen (russinkung@c-83-233-157-179.cust.bredband2.com)
  1024. # [20:07] <paul_irish> nimbupani: they're almost all done at this point. ;)
  1025. # [20:08] <jamescarr> lazyweb?
  1026. # [20:08] <nimbupani> it is a call to arms for people to do things if they want to contribute to Open Web
  1027. # [20:11] <jo-erlend> hmm. <script src="modernizr.min.js"></script> <-- Doesn't that seem like an insane thing to include in a public document?
  1028. # [20:11] <jo-erlend> oh, sorry. Nevermind. :)
  1029. # [20:11] <paul_irish> hmm?
  1030. # [20:12] <jo-erlend> I'm reading the diveintohtml5 stuff. I thought it recommended that we hotlink to it.
  1031. # [20:12] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113asw@fedora/tw2113)
  1032. # [20:12] <paul_irish> oh i hope not.
  1033. # [20:12] <jo-erlend> it doesn't. I misread. :)
  1034. # [20:12] <paul_irish> right now it's on a russian CDN.. but no good ones in the US
  1035. # [20:12] * tw2113 is cracking down a bit double time on himself after getting some crackdown from the boss
  1036. # [20:12] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, russian cdn?
  1037. # [20:12] * Quits: remysharp (~remysharp@cpc2-brig17-2-0-cust448.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Shazam)
  1038. # [20:12] <paul_irish> ?g yandex cdn modernizr
  1039. # [20:12] <bot-t> paul_irish, Twitter / Modernizr: Yandex.ru CDN is now hosti ... - http://twitter.com/Modernizr/status/24506407696994304
  1040. # [20:12] <twitterhapy> http://bit.ly/dWHe75 @Modernizr -- Yandex.ru CDN is now hosting Modernizr! http://goo.gl/KAqyk Great speeds for europe, but we'd avoid for US audiences.
  1041. # [20:13] <antonkovalyov> ha, nice
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  1044. # [20:15] <paul_irish> http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/01/w3schools-responds-to-w3fools.php
  1045. # [20:16] <tw2113> "I wish they could... I don't know... wikify their page or let people post comments... oh, the irony."
  1046. # [20:17] <tw2113> the difference is that fools is not a tutorial site with inaccurate info
  1047. # [20:17] <paul_irish> yeah whatev.
  1048. # [20:17] <paul_irish> we considered comments.
  1049. # [20:17] <tw2113> it's just pointing out the ones on schools
  1050. # [20:17] <paul_irish> decided nah.
  1051. # [20:17] <paul_irish> nimbupani: good article IMO ^
  1052. # [20:17] * Quits: russinkungen (russinkung@c-83-233-157-179.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1053. # [20:17] <tw2113> and as someone has time, i'm sure fools will get updated
  1054. # [20:18] <tw2113> heck, i could go do a pull later tonight if i wanted (i have other things needing done though)
  1055. # [20:18] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.245.140) (Quit: nn)
  1056. # [20:18] <peol> but... people can fork and add/fix whatever they want on github
  1057. # [20:18] <paul_irish> tw2113: yeah feel free.
  1058. # [20:19] <tw2113> s/replacing/revising
  1059. # [20:19] <tw2113> from the article
  1060. # [20:19] <tw2113> just sayin
  1061. # [20:20] <tw2113> ooh new mail on reddit
  1062. # [20:20] <mikew3c> "It would also probably be best for everyone if W3Schools acknowledged on its front page that it is not associated with the W3C."
  1063. # [20:20] <nimbupani> yeah its okay paul_irish
  1064. # [20:20] <nimbupani> a bit too much he said/she said still
  1065. # [20:20] <nimbupani> but better than last one
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  1067. # [20:20] <paul_irish> mikew3c: i know rite? :D
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  1069. # [20:21] <tw2113> esh! getting to your reddit male is always damn slow
  1070. # [20:21] <mikew3c> paul_irish: yeah, what a great idea
  1071. # [20:21] <nimbupani> :D
  1072. # [20:22] * Joins: rbmo (~rbmo@187.64.45.222)
  1073. # [20:22] <nimbupani> ya know we need some web 3.0 readiness into w3schools
  1074. # [20:22] <nimbupani> 7 TESTS FOR A SEMANTIC SITE
  1075. # [20:22] <mikew3c> I bet it just never occurred to the w3schools people to put an acknowledgement like that in there. that must the reason it doesn't have one
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  1077. # [20:22] <tw2113> web 3.0....the onslaught of html5/css3/semantic web
  1078. # [20:23] * Joins: socialhapy (~Social@h55eb1e56.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net)
  1079. # [20:23] <tw2113> web 3.5....the abolishment of IE6
  1080. # [20:25] <tw2113> ha, source view for imgur.com: <!--[if IE]><link rel="stylesheet" href="http://imgur.com/include/styles/ie-sucks.css?11411" type="text/css" /><![endif]-->
  1081. # [20:27] <jo-erlend> is defined whether or not a video should automatically play when loaded?
  1082. # [20:28] <tw2113> jo-erlend, http://html5doctor.com/the-video-element/
  1083. # [20:28] * Joins: jdalton (~johndavid@cpe-75-187-124-204.insight.res.rr.com)
  1084. # [20:29] <paul_irish> jo-erlend: it shouldnt by default.
  1085. # [20:30] * Parts: rwaldron (~rwaldron_@64.119.153.2) ("Leaving")
  1086. # [20:32] <paul_irish> http://antwerpes.it/examples/modernizr/ ja ja ja ja NIEN
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  1088. # [20:33] <tw2113> next time i hit up target or so, I need to grab a can of air
  1089. # [20:34] <paul_irish> cool story, bro.
  1090. # [20:35] <tw2113> i talk mindlessly, sometimes
  1091. # [20:36] <danbeam|away> tw2113: is that to dust your keyboard or the inside of your nose, lol?
  1092. # [20:36] <tw2113> ok most of the time, but sometimes i make it funny :D
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  1094. # [20:36] * danbeam|away is now known as danbeam
  1095. # [20:36] <tw2113> keyboard/desk cleaning at work
  1096. # [20:36] <danbeam> i figured, haha, just messin with you
  1097. # [20:37] <tw2113> don't blame ya
  1098. # [20:37] <danbeam> i'm like the dude from gattica on my keyboard, hyperclean (without leaving the blood and sweat and stuff)
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  1100. # [20:38] <danbeam> anybody here involved with the css3 spec? or is there a #css3 room for that
  1101. # [20:38] <danbeam> ?
  1102. # [20:39] <paul_irish> the #whatwg room has a few people in it in the working groupds
  1103. # [20:39] <danbeam> ok
  1104. # [20:39] <danbeam> thanks dude
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  1108. # [20:42] <russinkungen> http://twitter.com/#!/scottgu/status/27059273003438080
  1109. # [20:42] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fdhbPW @scottgu: Best wishes to Steve Jobs - get well soon
  1110. # [20:42] <russinkungen> Ã…Ã…
  1111. # [20:43] <russinkungen> ^^
  1112. # [20:44] <tw2113> I really have to wonder how Apple would do without him, permanently
  1113. # [20:44] <tw2113> how much does he make that wheel roll
  1114. # [20:44] * Quits: Levis (~Levis@93-63-109-252.ip27.fastwebnet.it) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1115. # [20:45] <nimbupani> what happs to him now?
  1116. # [20:45] <nimbupani> ?g steve jobs dead?
  1117. # [20:45] <bot-t> nimbupani, Steve Jobs's Obituary, As Run By Bloomberg - http://gawker.com/5042795/steve-jobss-obituary-as-run-by-bloomberg
  1118. # [20:45] <nimbupani> wat
  1119. # [20:45] <tw2113> he's taking medical leave again
  1120. # [20:48] <antonkovalyov> really, opera? bing as a default speed dial search engine?
  1121. # [20:48] <tw2113> don't forget they're still refusing to go open source
  1122. # [20:49] <nimbupani> umm why does it matter if they are open source or not?
  1123. # [20:49] <nimbupani> i dont get :|
  1124. # [20:49] <antonkovalyov> apple or opera?
  1125. # [20:49] <tw2113> because i've been a linux person for a few years now :P
  1126. # [20:49] <paul_irish> their bug tracker is walled off.
  1127. # [20:49] <paul_irish> and THAT SUCKS
  1128. # [20:49] <nimbupani> yeah
  1129. # [20:49] <nimbupani> THATS WHAT BUGS ME
  1130. # [20:49] <paul_irish> lol
  1131. # [20:49] <paul_irish> good one, nimbu
  1132. # [20:50] <nimbupani> :)
  1133. # [20:50] <tw2113> file a bug report with opera
  1134. # [20:50] <tw2113> oh wait
  1135. # [20:50] <nimbupani> but their friendly dev rels hang about here
  1136. # [20:50] <nimbupani> so you can still ask em questions about bugs you have submitted
  1137. # [20:50] <nimbupani> but wish it was easier
  1138. # [20:50] * Quits: jamesarosen (~jamesaros@c-76-126-52-135.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1139. # [20:51] <tw2113> the world is an imperfect place, and i'm going to protest on IRC
  1140. # [20:51] <tw2113> you all can join if you want
  1141. # [20:53] <felcom> should chrome extensions link to jquery via google CDN?
  1142. # [20:54] <felcom> vs a local copy
  1143. # [20:56] <paul_irish> felcom: i'd do a local copy
  1144. # [20:56] <felcom> ok
  1145. # [20:59] <antonkovalyov> does anybody have a regex for js identifier?
  1146. # [20:59] <antonkovalyov> every time i need to write a regex i want to break down in tears
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  1148. # [21:02] <antonkovalyov> nvm, found it in the jslint source
  1149. # [21:02] <antonkovalyov> /^([a-zA-Z_$][a-zA-Z0-9_$]*)$/
  1150. # [21:02] <antonkovalyov> not too complicated :)
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  1153. # [21:05] <tw2113> regex has the power to bring anyone to tears
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  1166. # [21:18] <mokush> is the Date object supposed to be able to convert somthing like "Mon, 17 Jan 2011 06:00:28 -0800"?
  1167. # [21:22] <paul_irish> ?eval new Date('17 Jan 2011 06:00:28 -0800')
  1168. # [21:22] <bot-t> paul_irish: <2011-01-17T14:00:28.000Z>
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  1170. # [21:25] <tw2113> whoever built some of these functions for bot-t, deserves kudos
  1171. # [21:26] <mokush> paul_irish: man bot-t is so smart, makes me feel so ashamed.
  1172. # [21:26] <paul_irish> :)
  1173. # [21:26] <paul_irish> temp01 wrote all of bot-t.
  1174. # [21:26] <nimbupani> BOTTY BOTTY
  1175. # [21:26] <nimbupani> i ♥ botty
  1176. # [21:26] <mokush> turns out there's an issue with firebug output of Date('17 Jan 2011 06:00:28 -0800'), cuz it shows blank.
  1177. # [21:27] <antonkovalyov> bot-t: do you want to be open source?
  1178. # [21:27] <bot-t> antonkovalyov, My reply is no.
  1179. # [21:27] <antonkovalyov> shit
  1180. # [21:27] <antonkovalyov> bot-t: should you be open source
  1181. # [21:27] <bot-t> yes!
  1182. # [21:27] <antonkovalyov> better
  1183. # [21:31] * tw2113 busts a move to Step By Step from NKOTB
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  1207. # [22:00] <davidmurdoch> you know what sucks about dreamweaver: I just saved a file I was working on and then typed about 10 more lines before dreamweaver notifies me that it couldn't sync with the server. It then automatically syncs the document with the OLD server document (ctrl-z doesn't work now) and then overwrites my local copy with the outdated version.
  1208. # [22:00] <davidmurdoch> BLAST!
  1209. # [22:00] <tw2113> doh
  1210. # [22:01] <antonkovalyov> people still use dreamweaver O_O
  1211. # [22:01] <davidmurdoch> and it was SQL. Which I don't even want to write once, yet alone twice.
  1212. # [22:01] <davidmurdoch> Yup, the group I'm working with on the project does.
  1213. # [22:02] <davidmurdoch> this isn't the first time it has happened either. Usually it only lets me edit a few characters before screwing everything up. This last time it was like 2-3 minutes.
  1214. # [22:02] <davidmurdoch> (where usually it is just a couple seconds).
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  1217. # [22:03] <tw2113> dreamweaver isn't worth it
  1218. # [22:03] <tw2113> was at one point, but i think perhaps the adobe merger hurt it
  1219. # [22:04] <davidmurdoch> The real problem is probably my lousy internet connection; but the revert-all-changes-on-failure action is not ideal.
  1220. # [22:04] <tw2113> truth
  1221. # [22:05] <tw2113> i lost a little work
  1222. # [22:06] <davidmurdoch> I can get 25Mb/s+ download speeds...whenever I manage to stay connected.
  1223. # [22:06] <tw2113> was viewing a different page, when i thought i was looking at the same one from earlier
  1224. # [22:06] <tw2113> since for some reason 2 pages showed similar content
  1225. # [22:06] <davidmurdoch> Ok, my rant is over...time to rewrite.
  1226. # [22:06] <tw2113> had to revert to a backup css file from earlier today
  1227. # [22:06] <tw2113> lost some work
  1228. # [22:07] <tw2113> ?csb > tw2113
  1229. # [22:07] <bot-t> tw2113, Couldn't find "csb > tw2113" in jQuery Docs.
  1230. # [22:07] <tw2113> ?csb
  1231. # [22:07] <bot-t> cool story, bro. http://goo.gl/m4706
  1232. # [22:07] <tw2113> there we go
  1233. # [22:08] * Joins: MattDiPasquale (~MattDiPas@rrcs-184-74-229-10.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  1234. # [22:08] <davidmurdoch> END, CTRL+SHIFT+HOME, CTRL+C, CTRL+S
  1235. # [22:09] <davidmurdoch> the clipboard backup.
  1236. # [22:09] <davidmurdoch> ?ninja
  1237. # [22:09] <bot-t> davidmurdoch, Ninja ui | jQuery Plugins - Ninja user interface is skilled in the techniques of JavaScript and CSS, going unnoticed until called upon to perform the arts of webjutsu. http://plugins.jquery.com/project/ninjaui
  1238. # [22:10] <davidmurdoch> I was just curious what bot would say for "ninja". its kinda lame.
  1239. # [22:10] <tw2113> ninjas tend to be
  1240. # [22:10] * Joins: retlehs (~ben@hypetreatment.com)
  1241. # [22:10] <tw2113> pirates on the other hand
  1242. # [22:11] <davidmurdoch> ?pirate
  1243. # [22:11] <bot-t> davidmurdoch, OOCSS for JavaScript Pirates at jQuery Conference Boston 2010 | Lanyrd - http://lanyrd.com/2010/jquery-conference-boston/styw/
  1244. # [22:11] <davidmurdoch> meh.
  1245. # [22:18] <davidmurdoch> woah, looks like paypal requires you to create an account inorder to make a payment
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  1250. # [22:19] <davidmurdoch> sigh, paypal sandbox is way too strict.
  1251. # [22:20] <davidmurdoch> ?g credit card number generator
  1252. # [22:20] <bot-t> davidmurdoch, Credit Card Number Generator - http://mediakey.dk/~cc/credit-card-number-generator/
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  1259. # [22:42] <davidmurdoch> I hate paypal.
  1260. # [22:42] <tw2113> lemme guess, you keep it around because sometimes that's the only way you'll get paid?
  1261. # [22:43] <davidmurdoch> No, their Instant Payment Notification simulator doesn't work.
  1262. # [22:43] <tw2113> ah
  1263. # [22:43] <davidmurdoch> It says: IPN delivery failed. HTTP error code 400: Bad Request
  1264. # [22:43] <davidmurdoch> but it never even TRYS to access the the ipn URL.
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  1266. # [22:45] <davidmurdoch> and there you have it: https://www.x.com/message/182853
  1267. # [22:46] <davidmurdoch> it doesn't work and Paypal doesn't care.
  1268. # [22:47] <davidmurdoch> AND they go and spend loads of money on x.com then slap the ol' www on the front of it?
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  1270. # [22:48] <tw2113> as little paypal integration as possible
  1271. # [22:48] <tw2113> that's my goal at least with personal stuff
  1272. # [22:48] <tw2113> they provide ugly markup that i assume is meant to work for every browser back to IE3
  1273. # [22:49] <davidmurdoch> what?
  1274. # [22:49] <tw2113> i dunno
  1275. # [22:50] <davidmurdoch> lol
  1276. # [22:50] <tw2113> i just dislike the code they tend to provide for their "click here to pay" stuff
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  1278. # [22:50] <Pewpewarrows> davidmurdoch: my co-worker rages whenever he has to do paypal stuff, the documentation and tutorials were complete garbage
  1279. # [22:50] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.210.221) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  1280. # [22:51] <tw2113> hulk smash type rage?
  1281. # [22:51] <Pewpewarrows> they might have improved since, idk
  1282. # [22:51] <antonkovalyov> is it better to provide your work email or your personal one when joining some semi-official mailing list (whatwg in my case)?
  1283. # [22:52] <tw2113> would it be specifically work related antonkovalyov ?
  1284. # [22:52] <tw2113> or just benefitting your dayjob work?
  1285. # [22:52] <tw2113> as well as personal growth outside of work
  1286. # [22:53] <antonkovalyov> latter, i guess
  1287. # [22:53] <Pewpewarrows> I almost exclusively use personal email, except when I'm doing something strictly under company business on a near-onetime basis
  1288. # [22:53] <tw2113> i say use personal, and perhaps any of the really interesting stuff that could benefit the company, forward to yourself
  1289. # [22:53] <tw2113> or as i tend to do, links and evernote
  1290. # [22:53] <nimbupani> use workrelated antonkovalyov if you are representing your company
  1291. # [22:54] <nimbupani> personal if ur opinions are yours alone and not of your company.
  1292. # [22:54] <tw2113> she has a good point
  1293. # [22:54] <antonkovalyov> hmmmmm
  1294. # [22:55] <antonkovalyov> my opinions are my opinions, but they affect the company
  1295. # [22:55] <antonkovalyov> it is hard to keep it separate in a startup :)
  1296. # [22:55] <davidmurdoch> I must retract my original paypal rant.
  1297. # [22:55] <antonkovalyov> oh ok @disqus.com it is then
  1298. # [22:56] <davidmurdoch> It turns out the CMS being used on the site I'm working on routes all POST through a handler that checks the HTTP referrer header. If there is no referrer header (as there wouldn't be for a paypal IPN) it 400's the request.
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  1327. # [23:51] <jeffszusz> where's the best html5 reference? sitepoint doesn't have an html5 specific one, and mozilla's html5 reference just lists a few new things
  1328. # [23:51] <jeffszusz> unless i'm missing something
  1329. # [23:52] <nimbupani> ?g diveintohtml5
  1330. # [23:52] <bot-t> nimbupani, Dive Into HTML5 - http://diveintohtml5.org/
  1331. # [23:53] <jeffszusz> sweet thanks nimbupani
  1332. # [23:53] <tw2113> +1
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  1337. # Session Close: Tue Jan 18 00:00:00 2011

The end :)