/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-01-17 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Jan 17 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:00] <chriseppstein> cross posting ftl
# [00:00] <chriseppstein> :{
# [00:00] <nimbupani> OOPS :)
# [00:00] <NiftyLettuce> chriseppstein: :( lol
# [00:02] <paul_irish> pwned
# [00:04] <thatryan> cross posting?
# [00:04] <paul_irish> bitch likes my watermelon. http://paulirish.com/i/7080.png
# [00:05] <nimbupani> more like your watermelon FACE
# [00:05] <thatryan> lol what the hell
# [00:05] <nimbupani> and shush
# [00:05] <thatryan> you are very handsome (handsome)
# [00:05] <nimbupani> why are you posting it in a public forum with her email :(
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# [00:05] <nimbupani> TERRIBLE
# [00:05] <thatryan> ha
# [00:07] <paul_irish> whoops.
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# [00:08] <antonkovalyov> wtf have i just read
# [00:09] <paul_irish> (she is talking about the background of my twitter which is this http://www.artlebedev.com/posters/watermelon/watermelon-1280x1024.jpg
# [00:09] <antonkovalyov> i understood that
# [00:09] <antonkovalyov> i did not understand everything else
# [00:09] <chriseppstein> SO HANDSOME
# [00:09] <paul_irish> me neither!
# [00:10] <thatryan> handsome handsome!
# [00:10] <antonkovalyov> also, i remember that art.lebedev's wallpaper
# [00:11] <antonkovalyov> they have some awesome stuff there http://www.artlebedev.ru/studio/posters/
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# [00:14] * chriseppstein has to run some errands and play with his girl. laters!
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# [00:57] * antonkovalyov has to run some errands and play xbox. laters!
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# [01:07] <paul_irish> merk: mark?
# [01:07] <merk> yo
# [01:07] <merk> hows it going
# [01:07] <paul_irish> good good.
# [01:07] <merk> thanks for getting back to me
# [01:08] <merk> stumbled across your w3fools stuff today
# [01:08] <merk> interesting reading no doubt
# [01:08] <merk> irony is
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# [01:08] <merk> i just taught 2 intro to web classes yesterday
# [01:08] <merk> and left them on the parting note
# [01:08] <merk> that they should take a good look into w3schools
# [01:08] <paul_irish> hahaha. :)
# [01:08] <merk> before next week's class
# [01:08] <merk> ha
# [01:08] <merk> so in a nutshell
# [01:09] <merk> obviously i think your entire site has merit
# [01:09] <merk> my concern is the user-friendliness of the resources you are pointing people out to
# [01:09] <paul_irish> mine too.
# [01:09] <merk> the overwhelming positive about the w3schools thing
# [01:09] <paul_irish> there are big UX and SEO issues with the better resources.
# [01:09] <merk> is the whole try-it-yourself sections
# [01:09] <merk> precisely
# [01:10] <merk> so im just trying to do my due diligence here
# [01:10] <thatryan> could we make a better school? like what w3schools should have been?
# [01:10] <paul_irish> damn it.. heillman isn't online.
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# [01:10] <merk> and seeing if i could get some thoughts or other resources that might be as welcoming
# [01:10] <merk> hmm
# [01:10] <paul_irish> i talked to the MDC guys a little bit about this
# [01:11] <merk> interesting
# [01:11] <merk> me and my colleagues run this volunteer training center here in toronto
# [01:11] <paul_irish> it'd be good to write up a post-mortem on this with action items for them
# [01:11] <merk> and slowly we have been trying to consolidate resources
# [01:11] <merk> and put them online in an accessible way
# [01:11] <merk> i would love to be involved in any of these types of discussions
# [01:12] <merk> tho it is a shame that the folks at w3schools arent open to working with yall
# [01:12] <merk> since they already have some good momentum
# [01:12] <paul_irish> yeahhh
# [01:12] <Pewpewarrows> paul_irish: although still in alpha(?), maybe offer MDC integration with jsfiddle?
# [01:13] <paul_irish> merk: maybe..... i should properly email them and say... "will you do X Y Z? if so. i'd be happy to tell everyone that w3schools might actually be legit"
# [01:14] <paul_irish> Pewpewarrows: yah jsfiddle everyyyywhere
# [01:14] <thatryan> i have a jsfiddle in my pants
# [01:14] <thatryan> wait..
# [01:15] <merk> i would be interested to know what the feedback would be
# [01:15] <merk> i just can't see any way of not encouraging people to check out w3schools still
# [01:15] <merk> at this point in time
# [01:15] <merk> and the perspective i am talking from here
# [01:15] <thatryan> what did you say is the problem with the other resources?
# [01:16] <merk> is spending time with 35 students between 18 and 23 who arent fully convinced they need to be taking a web course in their college program
# [01:16] <merk> the problem with the other resources is that they are about as welcoming as a hospital waiting room
# [01:17] <thatryan> ah lol gotcha
# [01:17] <obert-> what's wrong with w3c?
# [01:17] <merk> URL?
# [01:17] <paul_irish> see? :)
# [01:17] <paul_irish> that, merk, is why we did this.
# [01:17] <obert-> w3.org
# [01:18] <thatryan> ha
# [01:18] <paul_irish> ?g w3fools @ obert-
# [01:18] <bot-t> obert-, W3Fools Takes on W3Schools - http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/01/w3fools-takes-on-w3schools.php
# [01:18] <merk> lol
# [01:18] <paul_irish> fuck rww. usurping my SEO
# [01:18] <obert-> ?
# [01:18] <merk> w3.org just had a js error alert box pop up
# [01:19] <obert-> w3schools is a table based layout
# [01:19] <merk> indeed
# [01:19] <merk> but it has a lot of playgrounds
# [01:19] <merk> students love playgrounds
# [01:19] <merk> w3.org is cold
# [01:19] <obert-> http://jsbin.com
# [01:19] <paul_irish> merk: yeah thats fine.
# [01:20] <merk> i would still put w3schools in front of people 10 times out of 10 before that
# [01:20] <obert-> Syntax Errors in the example --> http://xrl.us/bfxwd | Complete bullshit -> http://xrl.us/bfxwf | Can't get it even more wrong if tried --> http://xrl.us/bfxwh
# [01:20] <merk> the streamlined process of: HTML tag list -> resource page -> Try it Yourself
# [01:20] <merk> is great on w3schools
# [01:20] <merk> argh
# [01:20] <obert-> sigh
# [01:20] <merk> the dilemmas of life
# [01:21] <merk> somebody gimme their phone number
# [01:21] <merk> ill phone them right now
# [01:21] <obert-> i really need just to know if an element is block or inline and check css properties
# [01:21] <merk> tell them to come in here
# [01:21] <merk> and lets straighten them out
# [01:21] <obert-> other than that would be so confusing:P
# [01:22] <obert-> and in 2011..talking about w3schools still? :P
# [01:22] <thatryan> hey paul_irish
# [01:22] <paul_irish> ?
# [01:22] <thatryan> what can I do to help? anything? ;)
# [01:22] <obert-> gimme some html5 examples
# [01:23] <paul_irish> write a postmortem to share with MDC & sitepoint
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# [01:24] <thatryan> as in "the death of" w3school
# [01:24] <thatryan> ?
# [01:25] <paul_irish> no a project summary
# [01:25] <paul_irish> lessons learned.
# [01:26] <thatryan> lessons learned from this w3fools project?
# [01:26] <merk> i would love to help out putting something together that we can all be comfortable with
# [01:26] <merk> now i got to walk into class next week
# [01:26] <merk> and tell my students that there is a shit storm brewing
# [01:26] <merk> and to use the w3schools site
# [01:26] <merk> but be cautious
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# [01:27] <Pewpewarrows> hmm I just stumbled upon dottoro.com
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# [01:27] <Pewpewarrows> helpdottoro.com
# [01:27] <Pewpewarrows> dammit, help.dottoro.com
# [01:28] <Pewpewarrows> no idea how accurate it is
# [01:28] <paul_irish> merk: i do not expect to be creating a new site.
# [01:29] <paul_irish> there really only two actionable vectors from here
# [01:29] <thatryan> what are they
# [01:30] <merk> word
# [01:30] <merk> sites are big efforts
# [01:30] <paul_irish> 1) w3schools gets their issues fixed. they improve their inaccuracy reporting workflow (or wikify)
# [01:31] <paul_irish> 2) mdc and other trusted resources do a few things a) capture the beginner audience better with new content b) improve seo c) improve onsite UX
# [01:31] <merk> which of the 2 do you think is more likely to occur?
# [01:32] <merk> it seems that yall are at least on the w3s radar
# [01:32] <merk> if they are fixing some of the things you are bringing up
# [01:33] <merk> and if they are being unresponsive, it is good you brought up the illegitimacy of their 'certificates'
# [01:33] <merk> because that would be their bread and butter i would assume
# [01:35] <paul_irish> both things *should* happen. the first seems easier to me.
# [01:36] <merk> tru story
# [01:37] <alrra> paul_irish: what is the plan with the @w3fools ?
# [01:40] <pluma> merk: what makes you think w3fools is on their radar?
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# [01:40] <paul_irish> pluma: from the RWW reporter who emailed the for comment on it
# [01:41] <pluma> RWW?
# [01:41] <jeffsz_laptop> readwriteweb
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# [01:41] <paul_irish> see link from above.
# [01:41] <alcuadrado> does anyone know a javascript unit testing library that works in the normal browser <script> and webworkers?
# [01:41] <merk> based on what was said about some of the errors on w3schools being corrected after they were pointed out on the w3fools site
# [01:41] <merk> i guess thats an assumption
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# [01:42] <pluma> paul_irish: thanks
# [01:44] <paul_irish> alcuadrado: hmmm good question. i bet you should look at ones that work in node.js and in browser.
# [01:44] <paul_irish> http://oksoclap.com/w3foolspostmortem
# [01:47] <merk> nice
# [01:48] <alcuadrado> good suggestion paul_irish, i'll check them in a minute, if not, I would modify one of them, as I'm planning to do some work with webworkers =)
# [01:52] <thatryan> oksoclap that looks like a cool app
# [01:52] <thatryan> im heading to church right now paul_irish but i will contribute on that when i get back!
# [01:52] <paul_irish> k
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# [02:05] <merk> thanks for taking the time to chat folks
# [02:05] <merk> ill keep an eye open for new stuff going on here
# [02:05] <merk> Peace
# [02:05] <paul_irish> tttyl merk
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# [02:34] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: man that russian translation is blowin up
# [02:34] <paul_irish> :D
# [02:35] <antonkovalyov> in bad sense or good sense?
# [02:35] <obert-> irc attitude is a must:P
# [02:36] <paul_irish> good sense. http://paulirish.com/i/0cd1.png
# [02:37] <antonkovalyov> awesome :)
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# [02:39] <antonkovalyov> what can i say
# [02:39] <antonkovalyov> russian people love html6
# [02:39] <antonkovalyov> html5
# [02:39] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [02:40] <antonkovalyov> why 5 and 6 keys are so close to each other
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# [02:46] <paul_irish> somebody should do something about that.
# [02:47] <obert-> the Master is arrived!!
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# [02:52] <antonkovalyov> we need a keyboard that changes keys each time after you type
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# [02:58] <pluma> paul_irish: wait a minute, are they serious about these css features in webkit? are they in the specs at all?
# [02:59] <paul_irish> specs are being published simultaneously
# [02:59] <pluma> neat
# [02:59] <paul_irish> it's all very experimental right now
# [02:59] <paul_irish> some of the syntax might change
# [02:59] <pluma> I was pretty sure we'd never see anything like sass in the browser.
# [03:01] <pluma> "el.style.values.color.red" <-- damn, I told avk in 2004 that this wasn't going to be possible in CSS because it's silly. OTOH I was 18 at the time.
# [03:03] <pluma> Hmm... okay, I like what I see. let's hope the dust settles soon, so we can start experimenting with this in the wild somewhat reliably.
# [03:06] <paul_irish> yeahhhh!
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# [03:15] <jeffsz_laptop> crap, the Russians are already using HTML6?
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# [03:15] <jeffsz_laptop> we're so behind
# [03:15] <jeffsz_laptop> ;)
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# [03:29] <kavelot> how can I print a text aligned to the right in a canvas?
# [03:30] <paul_irish> there is no .. text handling in canvas
# [03:30] <paul_irish> so like.. you want text to wrap lines? you have to do that yourself.
# [03:31] <paul_irish> so.. you have to calculate the width of the text yourself.. and position it on the canvas to what would make it look right aligned
# [03:32] <kavelot> hm, I found a textAlign property of the canvas
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# [03:34] <paul_irish> ORLY
# [03:34] <paul_irish> ?g canvas cheat sheet html
# [03:34] <bot-t> paul_irish, HTML5 Canvas Cheat Sheet - Nihilogic - http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2009/02/html5-canvas-cheat-sheet.html
# [03:36] <mikew3c> dudes at http://rumpetroll.com/ likes them class attribute a lot … view source/inspect that page & check out the value of the class attribute on the html element
# [03:36] <mikew3c> norwegians are nuts, basically
# [03:37] <paul_irish> mikew3c: that's modernizr + typekit
# [03:37] <mikew3c> you never know what they are going to come up with
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# [03:37] <mikew3c> paul_irish: really?
# [03:37] <paul_irish> yup
# [03:37] <mikew3c> why?
# [03:37] <mikew3c> why you got to do that with class
# [03:37] <paul_irish> both put classes on <html> for authors to style based
# [03:38] <mikew3c> to say what features it uses
# [03:38] <paul_irish> ya
# [03:38] <mikew3c> ah
# [03:38] <paul_irish> .no-canvas div#getagoodbrowseryouschmuck { display : block; }
# [03:39] <jeffszusz> lol
# [03:39] <mikew3c> http://rumpetroll.com/wtfisrumpetroll/
# [03:39] <paul_irish> the typekit ones (google webfont loader) let you fix the FOUT issues
# [03:39] <mikew3c> rumpetroll means "ass troll"
# [03:39] <mikew3c> ok
# [03:41] <mikew3c> hmm, django port to node
# [03:41] <mikew3c> https://github.com/drtyhbo/drty
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# [03:49] <obert-> lol http://www.colorzilla.com/gradient-editor/
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# [03:55] <jeffszusz> 'dirty hobo' ?
# [03:55] <jeffszusz> what kind of name is that for a project lol
# [03:56] <jeffszusz> somehow I think adoption rate is going to be rather low for that one.
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# [04:06] <daleharvey> so doing a mobile web app inside a uiwebview on android, want to make sure that stuff is saved when hitting the back button
# [04:06] <daleharvey> only way I can think is if its possible to save inside onunload
# [04:06] <daleharvey> *onbeforeunload
# [04:07] <alcuadrado> HTML5 needs an API for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uef17zOCDb8
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# [04:13] <jeffszusz> lol
# [04:13] <jeffszusz> those are so creepy
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# [04:47] <danbeam> obert: what do you think of the Colorzilla gradient editor?
# [04:47] <danbeam> (what does lol mean? good or bad?)
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# [04:55] <danbeam> obert: my boss wrote it (as well as Colorzilla), that's why I ask, haha
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# [04:57] <obert-> no idea,just found
# [04:57] <danbeam> ah, ok
# [04:57] <obert-> dunno about compatibility
# [04:57] <danbeam> compatibility meaning what?
# [04:57] <danbeam> cross-browser?
# [04:57] <obert-> ie6 vs css3 for instance
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# [04:58] <danbeam> yeah, I see - I think the first line falls back everywhere
# [04:58] <danbeam> and I think he's adding -ms-filter for news IEs (IE8/9 I think...)
# [04:58] <danbeam> new IEs*
# [04:59] <obert-> mhm no idea:p
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# [05:00] <danbeam> I think I tried it for him in IE6-9, FF2-4, Opera 8-11, Chrome (normal, dev channels)
# [05:00] <obert-> so tired
# [05:00] <danbeam> think it'll work
# [05:00] <obert-> yes doesnt sounds so for productive way
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# [05:01] <obert-> to be for production:P
# [05:02] <danbeam> uh, word
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# [05:02] <obert-> bye
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# [05:39] <mikew3c> ah brilliant
# [05:39] <mikew3c> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/16/angry-badly-written.html
# [05:41] <thatryan> yay public pad! that is sweet
# [05:43] <jeffszusz> ahahahaha
# [05:43] <jeffszusz> mikew3c: that's fantastic
# [05:44] <mikew3c> yah fun stuff
# [05:45] <jeffszusz> the narrator's voice is excellent.
# [05:45] <jeffszusz> I wish I sounded like that. I'd make youtube videos about -everything-
# [05:51] <jeffszusz> the game he was ranting about was pretty interesting
# [05:51] <jeffszusz> Super Press-Space-To-Win Action RPG
# [05:52] <mikew3c> the narrator is apparently http://d-mac-double.newgrounds.com/
# [05:52] <mikew3c> http://www.devenmack.com/
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# [05:54] <jeffszusz> lol
# [05:59] <mikew3c> http://www.myspace.com/dmac_pizzacat
# [05:59] <mikew3c> 22 years old
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# [06:03] <thatryan> whats the difference between chrome and chromium on mac?
# [06:06] <jeffszusz> i don't know of any difference other than one has the logos and such filed off
# [06:07] <jeffszusz> but there could be more. not sure.
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# [06:14] <antonkovalyov> thatryan, chromium does not have google services builtin (app store, etc.)
# [06:14] <thatryan> antonkovalyov: gotcha, thanks
# [06:15] <antonkovalyov> wait nvm
# [06:15] <antonkovalyov> i just opened chromium and it has chrome web store
# [06:15] <thatryan> ive never even looked at the chrome web store yet, heh, what is it like pay for extensions?
# [06:15] <antonkovalyov> but i think it is not supposed to
# [06:15] <antonkovalyov> thatryan, they have really nice html5 apps in there
# [06:15] <antonkovalyov> like nytimes — awesome web app
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# [06:17] <antonkovalyov> thatryan, anyway, chromium should not have google branded stuff in it (cc paul_irish)
# [06:17] <antonkovalyov> don't know why app store is there
# [06:20] <thatryan> what is chromium?
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# [07:27] <Evet> anyone played with processing.js?
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# [08:01] <cgcardona> Why isn't there an annual "Update your browser" day? It could be the day that all web developers update as many browsers as possible. We can have competitions with prizes for the most browsers updated. We need an official spokesperson for this cause. ahem *nudge paul_irish - I know you're busy with w3fools - but I say the next meme should be an annual "Update your browser day"
# [08:02] <paul_irish> what do i do as a chrome user
# [08:02] <cgcardona> well as a chrome user obviously you are stoked - but it could be for all the rest of the world not on chrome
# [08:02] <cgcardona> that can be part of the prize - how many people can you get to upgrade to a modern browser
# [08:03] <cgcardona> upgrade your browser - free your mind
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# [08:05] <Neiluj> upgrade your browser - save a web developer
# [08:05] <cgcardona> what would be the best time of year to do it?
# [08:06] <Neiluj> the day with most of people online
# [08:07] <cgcardona> wonder when that is?
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# [08:07] <cgcardona> "cyber monday?"
# [08:07] <Neiluj> ;)
# [08:07] <Neiluj> dunno
# [08:08] <cgcardona> but that's a shopping day - would it be smart to piggy back another action (upgrading browsers) onto that day?
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# [08:08] <Neiluj> people would probably be reticent to do update this day...
# [08:09] <cgcardona> yeah
# [08:10] <antonkovalyov> installing flash player :'-(
# [08:11] <cgcardona> what would be the upgrade your browser day mascot?
# [08:12] <cgcardona> benny the browser
# [08:12] <cgcardona> ?
# [08:12] <cgcardona> how do you visually and creatively show a browser that needs to be updated?
# [08:12] <cgcardona> visually old?
# [08:12] <Neiluj> crying
# [08:12] <paul_irish> ?g whatbrowser.org
# [08:12] <bot-t> paul_irish, What Browser? - Try a New Browser - http://www.whatbrowser.org/en/browser/
# [08:14] <cgcardona> also how would you keep track of how many you updated? a browser extension that you install each time?
# [08:14] <cgcardona> it would be good to digitally track that so you could have metrics of how many browsers were updated
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# [08:15] <cgcardona> that would actually be pretty cool
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# [08:16] <cgcardona> if each time you got someone to update to chrome or FF or safari you installed a plugin and put in your code or something and it tracked how many you updated
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# [08:17] <thatryan> hey I made a site kinda like that, trying to edge peeps away from old IE :)
# [08:17] <thatryan> http://browsingbetter.com/
# [08:17] <cgcardona> dude this rocks :)
# [08:17] <cgcardona> so we are off to a start -
# [08:18] <paul_irish> hot pink
# [08:18] <thatryan> heh thanks
# [08:18] <cgcardona> whachu mean paul_irish ?
# [08:18] <thatryan> highlight text is hot ;)
# [08:18] <cgcardona> oh snap
# [08:18] <cgcardona> haha
# [08:18] <cgcardona> hot
# [08:18] <thatryan> though I do wish I could design better lol
# [08:19] <cgcardona> actually I dig how this is all one long page
# [08:19] <cgcardona> that scrolls up and down when you click the buttons
# [08:19] <thatryan> yeah thats fun :)
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# [08:20] <cgcardona> so has anyone tried to get a bunch of people to upgrade browsers all at once on one day before that I should be aware of?
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# [08:20] <Neiluj> thatryan: you should put links to anchors on bad/good points :)
# [08:20] <thatryan> Neiluj: like menu item type links directly to the list stuff?
# [08:21] <Neiluj> yup
# [08:21] <Neiluj> #you-dont-know-how :P
# [08:21] <thatryan> good idea thanks, ill do that tomorrow morning!
# [08:21] <thatryan> lol yes
# [08:21] <thatryan> thank you
# [08:21] <Neiluj> thanks to you ;)
# [08:22] <Neiluj> I wish you have a french version I could redirect my
# [08:22] <Neiluj> visitors to
# [08:22] <Neiluj> :P
# [08:22] <thatryan> lol I wish I spoke french so I could make one :D
# [08:23] <Neiluj> put it on github ;)
# [08:23] <thatryan> ah, did not think of that!
# [08:23] <Neiluj> so I can fork
# [08:23] <thatryan> cool ill do that tomorrow too
# [08:23] <cgcardona> nice
# [08:23] <thatryan> also, will give me excuse to learn how to use github more ha
# [08:23] <cgcardona> Neiluj: can't you wget it all?
# [08:24] <Neiluj> cgcardona: lazyyyyy :p
# [08:24] <Neiluj> and I'm not the only french man in the place ;)
# [08:24] <thatryan> one day ill learn a second language :p
# [08:25] <cgcardona> gotcha
# [08:25] <thatryan> heh someone viewed the source on my new site redesign and tweeted one of my code comments
# [08:25] <thatryan> https://twitter.com/#!/ohaibbq/status/26817672331141120
# [08:25] <twitterhapy> http://bit.ly/ih8IfQ @OhaiBBQ -- @ryanolson  +1
# [08:25] <cgcardona> sweet
# [08:26] <Neiluj> it happened to me too ;) I wrote something like if($('html').hasClass('ie7') || $('html').hasClass('ie8')) { // no arm, no chocolate
# [08:27] <Neiluj> somebody tweeted about it
# [08:27] <thatryan> ha! nice
# [08:27] <Neiluj> I don't know if the expression exists in english...
# [08:27] <Neiluj> no arm, no chocolate is enough meaningful ? :)
# [08:27] <Neiluj> it's on guetta's website
# [08:27] <thatryan> well now i want chocolate
# [08:29] <Neiluj> ;)
# [08:29] <paul_irish> thatryan: ohaibbq is in #jquery
# [08:29] <Neiluj> the worst part was inside brackets...
# [08:29] <Neiluj> if($('html').hasClass('ie7') || $('html').hasClass('ie8')) {
# [08:29] <Neiluj> jQuery.fx.off = true;
# [08:29] <Neiluj> }
# [08:29] <Neiluj> :D
# [08:29] <paul_irish> good move.
# [08:30] <thatryan> paul_irish: ha oh yeah? do you knwo him
# [08:30] <paul_irish> yupp
# [08:34] <Neiluj> paul_irish: I'm just realizing how much mothereffinghsl would have help me a few months ago ...
# [08:34] <Neiluj> google maps use this instead of rgba for customization
# [08:35] <Neiluj> http://www.davidguetta.com/#/tour/date/6690
# [08:38] <thatryan> goodnight folks, Neiluj catch ya on github by tomorrow :D
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# [08:53] <Neiluj> tomorrow is already today for me...
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# [08:54] <paul_irish> Neiluj: wait did you do the daviidguitta site?
# [08:54] <Neiluj> yup
# [08:55] <Neiluj> not very glad of some things because the project was already late when I started but it's cool
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# [08:58] <paul_irish> its a hot site
# [08:59] <Neiluj> thx
# [09:00] <Neiluj> as the developer, I'm self-critizing about it, it could have been better if I had more time ;)
# [09:01] <Neiluj> for example, the scroll is very special on this site and could have been improved
# [09:01] <Evet> cgcardona: brillant idea
# [09:01] <Neiluj> I'm also sad it's not working right now on mobile devices, I'll work on a dedicated version later
# [09:01] <cgcardona> Evet: thanks - whats the next step?
# [09:02] <Neiluj> paul_irish: saw the hot pink ? ;)
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# [09:02] <paul_irish> yah b
# [09:02] <paul_irish> data:text/html,<!doctype html><pre contenteditable>
# [09:02] <Evet> cgcardona: im working on apps, i will use this idea
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# [09:31] <Neiluj> damn, Shadow DOM is great !
# [09:36] <Neiluj> paul_irish: can you confirm something for me please ?
# [09:36] <Neiluj> if webkit will get css variables, mixins, nesting... does it mean it'll be in css specs ???
# [09:43] <cgcardona> tab atkins told me that he is working on getting variables in the spec Neiluj - not sure about the others
# [09:45] <mikew3c> the CSS variables implementation in webkit was removed
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# [09:46] <mikew3c> a couple months ago
# [09:46] <mikew3c> has there been some recent discussion about re-implementing it?
# [09:46] <mikew3c> some new spec for it?
# [09:47] <Neiluj> mikew3c: true, I saw this feature removed because it wasn't in the specs, that's why I 'm asking now
# [09:47] <Neiluj> maybe it changed ?
# [09:47] * mikew3c looks at Tab slides
# [09:48] <mikew3c> heh
# [09:48] <Neiluj> he doesn't talk about it
# [09:48] <mikew3c> CSSOM "only virtue is that it exists"
# [09:49] <Neiluj> mmh...
# [09:52] <mikew3c> nice presentation
# [09:52] <mikew3c> cool stuff
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# [10:07] <JKarsrud> hopefully webkit's implementations of vars, mixins and nesting will push other vendors to implement them as well
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# [10:22] <mokush> you guys know any good resources about mobile uis?
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# [10:27] <mape> Have I just been dreaming or is there an attribute that allows users to click through elements?
# [10:27] <mape> Ie being able to overlay a canvas element over google maps and still being able to drag and click the map
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# [10:30] <mokush> mape: never heard of such a thing. make sure your canvas is above the map
# [10:31] <mape> mokush: K, thought I read it in some presentation, probly missunderstood
# [10:32] <mokush> mape: maybe you could pass the coordinates where you click the canvas, over to the map bellow, but it seems like an overkill solution
# [10:33] <mape> Yeah, especially when I want to allow the user to interact with an iframe under a canvas element
# [10:34] <mape> oh yeah, pointer-event:none
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# [11:23] <paul_irish> mape: pointer-events:none;
# [11:23] <paul_irish> oh you found it
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# [11:56] <tuxnani> hi there anyone here worked on sketchpad?
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# [12:30] <tuxnani> i want to have an implementation of this, how to do it? http://mugtug.com/sketchpad/
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# [12:43] <paulrouget> tuxnani: view → page source
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# [12:44] <tuxnani> paulorouget
# [12:45] <tuxnani> paulorouget, its not completely comprehensive there, many components used are hidden
# [12:46] <paulrouget> tuxnani: it's canvas.
# [12:46] <JKarsrud> iframe it
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# [12:48] <mikew3c> paulrouget: nice video (ParisWeb)
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# [12:49] <mikew3c> what i've watched so far at least
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# [12:49] <mikew3c> (still watching it)
# [12:50] <tuxnani> mikew3c, which is that video, i was out of loop
# [12:51] <mikew3c> tuxnani: http://paulrouget.com/e/paulatparisweb
# [12:51] <tuxnani> paulrouget, so can i simulate such canvas>
# [12:51] <paulrouget> mikew3c: thx
# [12:51] <paulrouget> sorry, french inside
# [12:52] <paulrouget> tuxnani: there's nothing to simulate: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/HTML/Canvas
# [12:54] <mikew3c> heh, just saw Berjon in that video
# [12:54] <mikew3c> and again!
# [12:55] <mikew3c> why they keep showing Berjon
# [12:55] <mikew3c> at that's better
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# [12:55] <mikew3c> now it shows the pretty woman next to Berjon
# [12:56] <mikew3c> more of her instead please
# [12:56] <paulrouget> mikew3c: :)
# [12:57] <nimbupani> ahem ahem
# [13:00] <tuxnani> nimbupani /whois
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# [13:34] <seutje> nimbupani: should do something about that cough
# [13:35] <nimbupani> :)
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# [13:50] * tuxnani thought nimbupani is a bot
# [13:50] * tuxnani is indian and knows the meaning of nimbupani :)
# [13:50] <nimbupani> ha ha tuxnani i am not
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# [14:10] <tuxnani> bot?
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# [14:14] <mikew3c> HTML5 has hit the big time: http://www.openpr.com/news/158592/Marco-Reversible-Pumps-Boat-Horns-Introduced-to-US-Market-via-HTML5-Portal-by-Miami-Web-Designer.html
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# [14:24] <nimbupani> web 3.0 readiness
# [14:24] <nimbupani> why didnt we think of that name
# [14:26] <nimbupani> http://web3.0designmiami.com/
# [14:26] <nimbupani> "real re$ult$"
# [14:27] <mikew3c> wow
# [14:28] <mikew3c> sign me up
# [14:28] <mikew3c> "This Semantic Web design passes all 7 tests of Web 3.0 Readiness"
# [14:31] <mikew3c> I guess part of Web 3.0 Readiness is having every page of you site be blank for a long time when the user firsts visits it, and while it's loading all the Web 3.0 goodness
# [14:31] <mikew3c> it gives the user more of a sense of anticipation
# [14:35] <nimbupani> :D :D
# [14:37] <nimbupani> "Perhaps due to expedience more so than ineptitude, the importance of W3C standards compliance and validation has long been disregarded by many web designers. But with the advent of http://www.webredesignmiami.com/website_redesign_professionalism.php, the impact of that error on website ROI increases exponentially."
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# [14:37] <nimbupani> web 3.0 http://webredesignmiami.com/website_redesign_professionalism.php
# [14:38] <JKarsrud> wth is this shit?=
# [14:38] <remysharp> anyone got IE9 platform 7 - I'm trying to confirm a bug
# [14:38] <remysharp> ?
# [14:39] <remysharp> (sorry, platform preview 7)
# [14:40] <Neiluj> paulrouget: bonaldi avec un n et un i ;-)
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# [15:14] <beevi7> ie9 pp7 download seems to be down
# [15:14] <beevi7> http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/6/2/162D6B13-3DDA-4D49-A454-84E156643841/iepreview.msi
# [15:14] <beevi7> 404 file not found
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# [15:44] <Neiluj> paulrouget: done looking your speak, nice one, loved the conclusion
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# [15:51] <paulrouget> Neiluj: :) thx (yeah, "bonaldi", I won't forget next time ;)
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# [16:19] <Neiluj> paulrouget: did you put your demo available somewhere like github ?
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# [16:29] <daleharvey> I wonder why mobile apps have carried on the tradition of putting navigation at the top, seems like its harder to reach for your thumb
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# [16:46] <masondesu> Happy MLK Day, HTML5 dudes (and dudettes)
# [16:47] <shichuan> daleharvey: which moible apps are you referring to?
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# [16:49] <mikesusz> anyone else working today?
# [16:49] <daleharvey> just most in general, notes app for iphone, foursquare, maps, twitter/facebook etc
# [16:50] <masondesu> I'm working. But no class!
# [16:51] <mikesusz> masondesu - some apps are confusing that way. e.g. echofon. i like it, but sometimes 'back' is an arrow at the top, and sometimes it's 'close' a button at the bottom right
# [16:52] <mikesusz> wondering what context deserves 'back' and which 'close' - seems to do 'back' for images and 'close' for websites
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# [16:54] <shichuan> @daleharvey: so what do you think is the better way? use a floaty bar?
# [16:54] <daleharvey> well a footer navigation seems sensible
# [16:55] <mikesusz> daleharvey - but, there is no quick way to scroll to bottom if you're in a long 'page' of content and want to get to the nav
# [16:55] <mikesusz> if an app follows the design guidelines, clicking on the clock scrolls to top
# [16:55] <daleharvey> a fixed footer, in the same way they are commonly fixed headers now
# [16:56] <mikesusz> tough to sacrifice 1/8th of your UI for controls tho
# [16:56] <tw2113> i don't think it's best to completely flipflop the usability notions that we have had for 15 years on the desktop
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# [16:56] <Neiluj> speaking of touch ergonomy, the two-column layout in landscape for iPad is a bit wrong too
# [16:56] <tw2113> i figure app designers assume people are using both hands, one to hold, the other to work with the app
# [16:58] <Neiluj> as most people are right-handed, it would avoid hiding the content with our hand touching the left side of the screen
# [16:58] <Neiluj> controls should mostly be on the left
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# [16:58] <Neiluj> anyway, it should be a setting
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# [17:00] <shichuan> there are some good designs
# [17:00] <shichuan> http://labs.oreilly.com/2010/08/a-new-take-on-the-pocket-reference----public-beta-of-new-oreilly-mobile-html-app.html
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# [17:01] <shichuan> it's web app but works like a native app, with mobile friendly UI
# [17:02] <Neiluj> using jqtouch
# [17:02] <daleharvey> Ive always wondered if it would be possible to make those arrow buttons in css
# [17:03] <Neiluj> with border-image, yes, without images, it's a bit complicated :)
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# [17:04] <tw2113> i know there's something like that on css-tricks.com
# [17:05] <shichuan> you can create triangles in css
# [17:05] <shichuan> http://hedgerwow.blogspot.com/2010/08/creating-triangle-arrows-in-pure-css.html
# [17:05] <Neiluj> can't be better than border-image : it uses only one tag, one small image and that's it
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# [17:05] <daleharvey> I tend to avoid using any images at all
# [17:06] <Neiluj> forget it ;) it's impossible in one tag
# [17:07] <Neiluj> maybe there's a way with something like a <span> inside the <a>, but image is better than useless elements
# [17:09] <ben_c> if you really want a triangle: ▲
# [17:09] <daleharvey> I prefer useless elements to images, its just easier editing stuff in 2 seconds in a text editor than booting up photoshop or whatever
# [17:09] <tw2113> aha http://css-tricks.com/triangle-breadcrumbs/
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# [17:11] <daleharvey> tw2113: ah yeh uses the same way as shichuan posted, thats awesome, cheers (both)
# [17:12] <Neiluj> that's not the same effects...
# [17:12] <Neiluj> no gradient, no inner & outer shadow
# [17:12] <Neiluj> sorry to say that's too easy...
# [17:13] <Neiluj> daleharvey: if you want text editor instead of photoshop you can use svg ;)
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# [17:14] <daleharvey> borders can have gradients though, its not like I am trying this now was just curious
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# [17:21] <danielfilho> howdy! :D
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# [17:45] <mokush> how do you guys automaticly build(minify, compress, etc) your js apps?
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# [17:48] <Pewpewarrows> mokush: in django there's an app called django-mediagenerator that automagically handles all of that for me when I flip a debug bool to false
# [17:48] <Pewpewarrows> but I think I saw a tool recently for js building
# [17:50] <Pewpewarrows> mokush: no idea if this could fit into your workflow, but here's a CI tool for js: https://github.com/dsimard/ready.js
# [17:50] <mokush> Pewpewarrows: I'm strugglin with the requirejs build tool, but can't get to work right.
# [17:51] <Pewpewarrows> oh you're using require
# [17:51] <Pewpewarrows> what's the issue with it?
# [17:51] <mokush> Pewpewarrows: can django-mediagenerator be used as a standalone tool?
# [17:51] <Pewpewarrows> mokush: no idea, but I doubt it
# [17:53] <tbranyen> mokush: perhaps i don't know why you're asking in #html5 instead of #django tho
# [17:54] <mokush> tbranyen: it was a js related question
# [17:54] <tbranyen> mokush: django apps aren't written in js?
# [17:55] <Pewpewarrows> tbranyen: django is a python web framework
# [17:55] <Pewpewarrows> I think you're thinking of node
# [17:56] <tbranyen> Pewpewarrows: read the convo :|
# [17:56] <tbranyen> that was a rhetorical question
# [17:56] <Pewpewarrows> oh, *whoosh*
# [17:57] <mokush> tbranyen: the q was about js build tools, not about django. django just came along with the build tool.
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# [17:58] <tbranyen> mokush: yeah but stuff like django are so intertwined with the framework it wouldn't make sense to break them out
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# [17:58] <tbranyen> you could probably write your own build tool easily enough
# [17:58] <tbranyen> closure compiler can compile multiple files into a single out.js
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# [18:01] <mokush> tbranyen: I wrote my own build tool right now, using closure, but it's hard to work with. especialy when I have to keep modifing parts of it.
# [18:01] <mokush> tbranyen: besides that, I have to write 2 separate files, a batch and an sh, so that it can be run everywhere
# [18:02] <Neiluj> daleharvey: that's the closest thing I can get ;) with 3 tags... very ugly but no images http://zeedev.aaz.fr/breadcrumb/
# [18:02] <Neiluj> (work only on webkit of course...)
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# [18:03] <daleharvey> wow thats pretty close, good job
# [18:03] <Neiluj> thx
# [18:03] <tbranyen> mokush: or pick a language that has posix support in both windows/*nix
# [18:03] <tbranyen> like java :D
# [18:03] <Neiluj> mokush: html5boilerplate have build tool
# [18:04] <daleharvey> wtf, it looks new new Date(123345345325) is invalid on mobile webkit
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# [18:09] <mikew3c> daleharvey: how so?
# [18:10] <daleharvey> its actually new Date("2011-01-16T22:40:23.890Z") thats failing for me on mobile webkit (and working on every other webkit)
# [18:11] <mikew3c> I guess that got implemented relatively recently
# [18:11] <mikew3c> like, in the last 6 months or so
# [18:11] <mikew3c> I remember seeing the patch from the guy who implemented it
# [18:11] <mikew3c> for JSC
# [18:11] <daleharvey> http://pastebin.me/e5341efb351f32be38034835ae388c58
# [18:14] <mikew3c> daleharvey: the RFC 3339 timestamps stuff was added to JSC only 3 months ago
# [18:14] <mikew3c> http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/JavaScriptCore/wtf/DateMath.cpp?rev=69833
# [18:14] <mikew3c> 2010-10-14 Nathan Vander Wilt < nate@andyet.net>
# [18:15] <daleharvey> well that sucks, but the way you informed me of it was pretty awesome, I rarely post a "wtf" and get pointed to the commit, thanks :)
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# [18:23] <jo-erlend> it seems strange to me that the doctype now uses just "html" instead of "html5". What's the rationale for that?
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# [18:24] <daleharvey> html5 is versionless
# [18:25] <jo-erlend> what does that mean? They've committed to never break backwards compatibility?
# [18:28] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: kind of
# [18:28] <daleharvey> just means things are pretty much as they have always been, without the pretence that the version of html implemented actually matters :P
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# [18:29] <jo-erlend> but doesn't that mean we'll always have to check for browser features? Forever?
# [18:30] <Neiluj> don't forget some of the new features are coming from IE...
# [18:30] <jo-erlend> so..?
# [18:30] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: yup, forver, but Modernizr can help you
# [18:30] <Neiluj> at least for CSS
# [18:30] <jo-erlend> what's that?
# [18:30] <Neiluj> and some API too
# [18:31] <Neiluj> a lib that tell you what is supported
# [18:31] <daleharvey> jo-erlend: sure, you are always going to have to do that anyway, there is no point pretending that browser vendors were ever going to stick to a rigidly defined specification
# [18:31] <jo-erlend> no, but I would like to be able to use a common set of features that all browsers are known to support.
# [18:32] <Neiluj> example : if(Modernizr.audio) ... or html.audio #player { ... }
# [18:32] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: like what ? <a href> ?
# [18:32] <Neiluj> :)
# [18:32] <jo-erlend> hehe, yes, something like that. :)
# [18:32] <Neiluj> well, that's HTML 1.0 ?
# [18:33] <Neiluj> the thing is HTML5 is giving more features without breaking old browsers
# [18:33] <Neiluj> for example <input type="range"> looks like a type="text" for non-supporting browsers
# [18:33] <Neiluj> understand who can
# [18:33] <jo-erlend> I don't necessarily see that as a good thing. Once in a while, it's good to break compatibility in order to get a clean break.
# [18:34] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: it would mean to have 2 webs...
# [18:34] <Neiluj> and so, to make 2 website instead of 1
# [18:35] <jo-erlend> no, not necessarily. A browser would still support older versions of html, but wouldn't accept the use of <blink> in an html5 document, for instance.
# [18:36] <Neiluj> html5 is not about removing features, but adding some :)
# [18:36] <jo-erlend> I think that would be a good thing. If it's valid, then people are going to do it.
# [18:36] <jo-erlend> right.
# [18:36] <jo-erlend> I think this would be a very good time to remove old cruft.
# [18:36] <Neiluj> like what ?
# [18:37] <Neiluj> long doctype ? done !
# [18:37] <Neiluj> :D
# [18:37] <jo-erlend> like <blink>, <b>, <i>, <font>...
# [18:37] <Neiluj> <font> is not html5
# [18:37] <Neiluj> neither blink if I'm not wrong
# [18:37] <jo-erlend> if you use it, then the page will still validate?
# [18:37] <Neiluj> there's no real validator right now, only beta
# [18:38] <jo-erlend> yes, but you seem to be saying that html5 isn't supposed to deprecate anything, so it'd still be valid html even when using the html doctype (see how strange that looks?)
# [18:39] <Neiluj> the current one doesn't like <font> neither <blink>
# [18:39] <jo-erlend> oh, ok. That sounds good.
# [18:40] <Neiluj> well, most of the changes are about new features, but there are also old one removed
# [18:40] <Neiluj> of course
# [18:40] <jo-erlend> then, in reality, there is a version.
# [18:40] <Neiluj> but most of those were already forbidden in HTML4 Strict you know
# [18:41] <Neiluj> like blink and font if I can tell...
# [18:41] <jo-erlend> I actually didn't know that.
# [18:41] <Neiluj> try it http://validator.w3.org/#validate_by_input
# [18:41] <Neiluj> ;)
# [18:42] <Neiluj> HTML4 Strict cleaned up a bit of the mess, but browsers still understand...
# [18:43] <Neiluj> on the CSS side, I don't know properties who became forbidden with CSS3, only new ones
# [18:43] <Neiluj> and if browsers don't understand what it means, it will just ignore it so...
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# [18:44] <jo-erlend> yes, visiting Youtube with a browser that simply ignored video would be interesting. :)
# [18:44] <Neiluj> the only thing they sadly didn't change is the syntax, because it breaks compatibility
# [18:44] <Neiluj> using IE is far from an interesting experience but if you like it :D
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# [18:44] <jo-erlend> the syntax is pretty good, isn't it? Perhaps you're referring to case-insensitivity, etc?
# [18:45] <chriseppstein> Neiluj: they're working on that now too http://www.xanthir.com/talks/2011-01-12/slides.html
# [18:45] <Neiluj> nope, I'm talking about vars and nesting, like sass & less
# [18:45] <Neiluj> chriseppstein: yeah I know, that's what I'm talking about ;)
# [18:45] <Neiluj> there's a hope !
# [18:45] <chriseppstein> :)
# [18:46] <Neiluj> but it would mean to have 2 stylesheets, even if one of them can generate the second one
# [18:46] <Neiluj> it's not like extending properties, it's a different parsing
# [18:47] <Neiluj> would be cool if webkit also give the converted css file :D
# [18:47] <Neiluj> I mean the "regular" one
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# [18:48] <chriseppstein> Neiluj: that's where we come in :)
# [18:49] <Neiluj> I wish I knew C better to give a hand on Webkit, it's that kind of code that freaks me out
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# [18:55] <Neiluj> the web is not enough democratic, we should add our voices to the specs
# [18:56] <Neiluj> they're too slow to decide, we can decide for them :)
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# [19:39] <Pewpewarrows> has anyone gotten the yayQuery podcast feed to successfully load/open in the Google Listen android app?
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# [19:40] <dmachi> paul_irish: have you guys defined an api for the shadow dom stuff?
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# [19:41] <paul_irish> dmachi: dunno. i only know what's in dmitri's post and in the relevant changesets
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# [19:41] <paul_irish> but.. i think the basic API of going in with both css selectors and dom is defined yes
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# [19:41] <paul_irish> a working/experimental API
# [19:42] <dmachi> paul_irish: k, thanks. Was trying to understand if it would be similar to the components that ms had proposed long ago (ref'd in one of the comments) or completely different
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# [19:49] <remysharp> paul_irish: off hand, do you know if the performance bug in Chrome (might be Mac specific) with box-shadow is on the radar?
# [19:49] <paul_irish> like umm. scrolling is shit while you have box-shadow on a big container?
# [19:49] <remysharp> yep
# [19:49] <nimbupani> its been fixed
# [19:50] <remysharp> in 9?
# [19:50] <paul_irish> nimbupani: no it aint
# [19:50] <nimbupani> no webkit nightlies
# [19:50] <nimbupani> wat
# [19:50] <paul_irish> nimbupani: whatchu talkin about
# [19:50] <paul_irish> i'm talkin about https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22102
# [19:50] <nimbupani> the box-shadow
# [19:50] <remysharp> okay, so it's on the radar, and it's not fixed :)
# [19:51] <nimbupani> O
# [19:51] <nimbupani> it wasnt fixed!
# [19:51] <nimbupani> damn
# [19:51] <nimbupani> i am cc'ed saw lots of activity so i thought it must have been fixed :P
# [19:52] <paul_irish> nah. patch written though! :)
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# [19:53] <nimbupani> woot
# [19:54] <nimbupani> cant wait to box-shadow the html
# [19:54] <felcom> yo dawg, heard you like box-shadows
# [19:55] <remysharp> paul_irish: good to know it's not far off then.
# [19:56] <paul_irish> yeah seriously.
# [19:56] <nimbupani> html { box-shadow: 10em; }
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# [20:00] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, users report that opera 11 freezes on h5b russian as well as ie8 :-(
# [20:01] <antonkovalyov> i'll check again when i have time
# [20:01] <nimbupani> wat antonkovalyov
# [20:02] <antonkovalyov> nimbupani, something causes ie8 and o11 to freeze on russian (and srpski, and french) h5b versions
# [20:02] <nimbupani> i am on opera 11 and its not freezing :/
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# [20:02] <nimbupani> the scrolling sucks
# [20:02] <antonkovalyov> reeeeallly
# [20:02] <nimbupani> yeah
# [20:03] <antonkovalyov> i don't know what surprises me more, that you are on opera or that it is not freezing there
# [20:03] <nimbupani> http://gyazo.com/d4c04171217a96594c8c819efd6204c2.png
# [20:03] <nimbupani> why is it surprising that I use Opera!
# [20:04] <antonkovalyov> you don't meet a lot of people using opera nowadays.
# [20:04] <nimbupani> ha ha maybe not in the US.
# [20:04] <antonkovalyov> the whole fan base is in russia
# [20:04] <antonkovalyov> are you from russia, nimbupani? are you?
# [20:05] <nimbupani> :D
# [20:05] <nimbupani> no i am not!
# [20:05] <nimbupani> but i have been a fan since 2002 or smthing
# [20:05] <felcom> someone give me an intermediate-level html5/js project
# [20:06] <felcom> i need content for my website =x
# [20:06] <nimbupani> ?g paul irish lazy web
# [20:06] <bot-t> nimbupani, A call for development help and research: Lazyweb Requests � Paul ... - http://paulirish.com/2010/lazyweb-requests/
# [20:06] <nimbupani> thanks botty
# [20:06] <paul_irish> felcom: https://github.com/paulirish/lazyweb-requests/issues#issue/23
# [20:06] <nimbupani> felcom: ^
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# [20:07] <paul_irish> nimbupani: they're almost all done at this point. ;)
# [20:08] <jamescarr> lazyweb?
# [20:08] <nimbupani> it is a call to arms for people to do things if they want to contribute to Open Web
# [20:11] <jo-erlend> hmm. <script src="modernizr.min.js"></script> <-- Doesn't that seem like an insane thing to include in a public document?
# [20:11] <jo-erlend> oh, sorry. Nevermind. :)
# [20:11] <paul_irish> hmm?
# [20:12] <jo-erlend> I'm reading the diveintohtml5 stuff. I thought it recommended that we hotlink to it.
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# [20:12] <paul_irish> oh i hope not.
# [20:12] <jo-erlend> it doesn't. I misread. :)
# [20:12] <paul_irish> right now it's on a russian CDN.. but no good ones in the US
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# [20:12] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, russian cdn?
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# [20:12] <paul_irish> ?g yandex cdn modernizr
# [20:12] <bot-t> paul_irish, Twitter / Modernizr: Yandex.ru CDN is now hosti ... - http://twitter.com/Modernizr/status/24506407696994304
# [20:12] <twitterhapy> http://bit.ly/dWHe75 @Modernizr -- Yandex.ru CDN is now hosting Modernizr! http://goo.gl/KAqyk Great speeds for europe, but we'd avoid for US audiences.
# [20:13] <antonkovalyov> ha, nice
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# [20:15] <paul_irish> http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/01/w3schools-responds-to-w3fools.php
# [20:16] <tw2113> "I wish they could... I don't know... wikify their page or let people post comments... oh, the irony."
# [20:17] <tw2113> the difference is that fools is not a tutorial site with inaccurate info
# [20:17] <paul_irish> yeah whatev.
# [20:17] <paul_irish> we considered comments.
# [20:17] <tw2113> it's just pointing out the ones on schools
# [20:17] <paul_irish> decided nah.
# [20:17] <paul_irish> nimbupani: good article IMO ^
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# [20:17] <tw2113> and as someone has time, i'm sure fools will get updated
# [20:18] <tw2113> heck, i could go do a pull later tonight if i wanted (i have other things needing done though)
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# [20:18] <peol> but... people can fork and add/fix whatever they want on github
# [20:18] <paul_irish> tw2113: yeah feel free.
# [20:19] <tw2113> s/replacing/revising
# [20:19] <tw2113> from the article
# [20:19] <tw2113> just sayin
# [20:20] <tw2113> ooh new mail on reddit
# [20:20] <mikew3c> "It would also probably be best for everyone if W3Schools acknowledged on its front page that it is not associated with the W3C."
# [20:20] <nimbupani> yeah its okay paul_irish
# [20:20] <nimbupani> a bit too much he said/she said still
# [20:20] <nimbupani> but better than last one
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# [20:20] <paul_irish> mikew3c: i know rite? :D
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# [20:21] <tw2113> esh! getting to your reddit male is always damn slow
# [20:21] <mikew3c> paul_irish: yeah, what a great idea
# [20:21] <nimbupani> :D
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# [20:22] <nimbupani> ya know we need some web 3.0 readiness into w3schools
# [20:22] <nimbupani> 7 TESTS FOR A SEMANTIC SITE
# [20:22] <mikew3c> I bet it just never occurred to the w3schools people to put an acknowledgement like that in there. that must the reason it doesn't have one
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# [20:22] <tw2113> web 3.0....the onslaught of html5/css3/semantic web
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# [20:23] <tw2113> web 3.5....the abolishment of IE6
# [20:25] <tw2113> ha, source view for imgur.com:
# [20:27] <jo-erlend> is defined whether or not a video should automatically play when loaded?
# [20:28] <tw2113> jo-erlend, http://html5doctor.com/the-video-element/
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# [20:29] <paul_irish> jo-erlend: it shouldnt by default.
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# [20:32] <paul_irish> http://antwerpes.it/examples/modernizr/ ja ja ja ja NIEN
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# [20:33] <tw2113> next time i hit up target or so, I need to grab a can of air
# [20:34] <paul_irish> cool story, bro.
# [20:35] <tw2113> i talk mindlessly, sometimes
# [20:36] <danbeam|away> tw2113: is that to dust your keyboard or the inside of your nose, lol?
# [20:36] <tw2113> ok most of the time, but sometimes i make it funny :D
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# [20:36] * danbeam|away is now known as danbeam
# [20:36] <tw2113> keyboard/desk cleaning at work
# [20:36] <danbeam> i figured, haha, just messin with you
# [20:37] <tw2113> don't blame ya
# [20:37] <danbeam> i'm like the dude from gattica on my keyboard, hyperclean (without leaving the blood and sweat and stuff)
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# [20:38] <danbeam> anybody here involved with the css3 spec? or is there a #css3 room for that
# [20:38] <danbeam> ?
# [20:39] <paul_irish> the #whatwg room has a few people in it in the working groupds
# [20:39] <danbeam> ok
# [20:39] <danbeam> thanks dude
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# [20:42] <russinkungen> http://twitter.com/#!/scottgu/status/27059273003438080
# [20:42] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fdhbPW @scottgu: Best wishes to Steve Jobs - get well soon
# [20:42] <russinkungen> ÅÅ
# [20:43] <russinkungen> ^^
# [20:44] <tw2113> I really have to wonder how Apple would do without him, permanently
# [20:44] <tw2113> how much does he make that wheel roll
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# [20:45] <nimbupani> what happs to him now?
# [20:45] <nimbupani> ?g steve jobs dead?
# [20:45] <bot-t> nimbupani, Steve Jobs's Obituary, As Run By Bloomberg - http://gawker.com/5042795/steve-jobss-obituary-as-run-by-bloomberg
# [20:45] <nimbupani> wat
# [20:45] <tw2113> he's taking medical leave again
# [20:48] <antonkovalyov> really, opera? bing as a default speed dial search engine?
# [20:48] <tw2113> don't forget they're still refusing to go open source
# [20:49] <nimbupani> umm why does it matter if they are open source or not?
# [20:49] <nimbupani> i dont get :|
# [20:49] <antonkovalyov> apple or opera?
# [20:49] <tw2113> because i've been a linux person for a few years now :P
# [20:49] <paul_irish> their bug tracker is walled off.
# [20:49] <paul_irish> and THAT SUCKS
# [20:49] <nimbupani> yeah
# [20:49] <nimbupani> THATS WHAT BUGS ME
# [20:49] <paul_irish> lol
# [20:49] <paul_irish> good one, nimbu
# [20:50] <nimbupani> :)
# [20:50] <tw2113> file a bug report with opera
# [20:50] <tw2113> oh wait
# [20:50] <nimbupani> but their friendly dev rels hang about here
# [20:50] <nimbupani> so you can still ask em questions about bugs you have submitted
# [20:50] <nimbupani> but wish it was easier
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# [20:51] <tw2113> the world is an imperfect place, and i'm going to protest on IRC
# [20:51] <tw2113> you all can join if you want
# [20:53] <felcom> should chrome extensions link to jquery via google CDN?
# [20:54] <felcom> vs a local copy
# [20:56] <paul_irish> felcom: i'd do a local copy
# [20:56] <felcom> ok
# [20:59] <antonkovalyov> does anybody have a regex for js identifier?
# [20:59] <antonkovalyov> every time i need to write a regex i want to break down in tears
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# [21:02] <antonkovalyov> nvm, found it in the jslint source
# [21:02] <antonkovalyov> /^([a-zA-Z_$][a-zA-Z0-9_$]*)$/
# [21:02] <antonkovalyov> not too complicated :)
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# [21:05] <tw2113> regex has the power to bring anyone to tears
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# [21:18] <mokush> is the Date object supposed to be able to convert somthing like "Mon, 17 Jan 2011 06:00:28 -0800"?
# [21:22] <paul_irish> ?eval new Date('17 Jan 2011 06:00:28 -0800')
# [21:22] <bot-t> paul_irish: <2011-01-17T14:00:28.000Z>
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# [21:25] <tw2113> whoever built some of these functions for bot-t, deserves kudos
# [21:26] <mokush> paul_irish: man bot-t is so smart, makes me feel so ashamed.
# [21:26] <paul_irish> :)
# [21:26] <paul_irish> temp01 wrote all of bot-t.
# [21:26] <nimbupani> BOTTY BOTTY
# [21:26] <nimbupani> i ♥ botty
# [21:26] <mokush> turns out there's an issue with firebug output of Date('17 Jan 2011 06:00:28 -0800'), cuz it shows blank.
# [21:27] <antonkovalyov> bot-t: do you want to be open source?
# [21:27] <bot-t> antonkovalyov, My reply is no.
# [21:27] <antonkovalyov> shit
# [21:27] <antonkovalyov> bot-t: should you be open source
# [21:27] <bot-t> yes!
# [21:27] <antonkovalyov> better
# [21:31] * tw2113 busts a move to Step By Step from NKOTB
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# [22:00] <davidmurdoch> you know what sucks about dreamweaver: I just saved a file I was working on and then typed about 10 more lines before dreamweaver notifies me that it couldn't sync with the server. It then automatically syncs the document with the OLD server document (ctrl-z doesn't work now) and then overwrites my local copy with the outdated version.
# [22:00] <davidmurdoch> BLAST!
# [22:00] <tw2113> doh
# [22:01] <antonkovalyov> people still use dreamweaver O_O
# [22:01] <davidmurdoch> and it was SQL. Which I don't even want to write once, yet alone twice.
# [22:01] <davidmurdoch> Yup, the group I'm working with on the project does.
# [22:02] <davidmurdoch> this isn't the first time it has happened either. Usually it only lets me edit a few characters before screwing everything up. This last time it was like 2-3 minutes.
# [22:02] <davidmurdoch> (where usually it is just a couple seconds).
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# [22:03] <tw2113> dreamweaver isn't worth it
# [22:03] <tw2113> was at one point, but i think perhaps the adobe merger hurt it
# [22:04] <davidmurdoch> The real problem is probably my lousy internet connection; but the revert-all-changes-on-failure action is not ideal.
# [22:04] <tw2113> truth
# [22:05] <tw2113> i lost a little work
# [22:06] <davidmurdoch> I can get 25Mb/s+ download speeds...whenever I manage to stay connected.
# [22:06] <tw2113> was viewing a different page, when i thought i was looking at the same one from earlier
# [22:06] <tw2113> since for some reason 2 pages showed similar content
# [22:06] <davidmurdoch> Ok, my rant is over...time to rewrite.
# [22:06] <tw2113> had to revert to a backup css file from earlier today
# [22:06] <tw2113> lost some work
# [22:07] <tw2113> ?csb > tw2113
# [22:07] <bot-t> tw2113, Couldn't find "csb > tw2113" in jQuery Docs.
# [22:07] <tw2113> ?csb
# [22:07] <bot-t> cool story, bro. http://goo.gl/m4706
# [22:07] <tw2113> there we go
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# [22:08] <davidmurdoch> END, CTRL+SHIFT+HOME, CTRL+C, CTRL+S
# [22:09] <davidmurdoch> the clipboard backup.
# [22:09] <davidmurdoch> ?ninja
# [22:09] <bot-t> davidmurdoch, Ninja ui | jQuery Plugins - Ninja user interface is skilled in the techniques of JavaScript and CSS, going unnoticed until called upon to perform the arts of webjutsu. http://plugins.jquery.com/project/ninjaui
# [22:10] <davidmurdoch> I was just curious what bot would say for "ninja". its kinda lame.
# [22:10] <tw2113> ninjas tend to be
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# [22:10] <tw2113> pirates on the other hand
# [22:11] <davidmurdoch> ?pirate
# [22:11] <bot-t> davidmurdoch, OOCSS for JavaScript Pirates at jQuery Conference Boston 2010 | Lanyrd - http://lanyrd.com/2010/jquery-conference-boston/styw/
# [22:11] <davidmurdoch> meh.
# [22:18] <davidmurdoch> woah, looks like paypal requires you to create an account inorder to make a payment
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# [22:19] <davidmurdoch> sigh, paypal sandbox is way too strict.
# [22:20] <davidmurdoch> ?g credit card number generator
# [22:20] <bot-t> davidmurdoch, Credit Card Number Generator - http://mediakey.dk/~cc/credit-card-number-generator/
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# [22:42] <davidmurdoch> I hate paypal.
# [22:42] <tw2113> lemme guess, you keep it around because sometimes that's the only way you'll get paid?
# [22:43] <davidmurdoch> No, their Instant Payment Notification simulator doesn't work.
# [22:43] <tw2113> ah
# [22:43] <davidmurdoch> It says: IPN delivery failed. HTTP error code 400: Bad Request
# [22:43] <davidmurdoch> but it never even TRYS to access the the ipn URL.
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# [22:45] <davidmurdoch> and there you have it: https://www.x.com/message/182853
# [22:46] <davidmurdoch> it doesn't work and Paypal doesn't care.
# [22:47] <davidmurdoch> AND they go and spend loads of money on x.com then slap the ol' www on the front of it?
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# [22:48] <tw2113> as little paypal integration as possible
# [22:48] <tw2113> that's my goal at least with personal stuff
# [22:48] <tw2113> they provide ugly markup that i assume is meant to work for every browser back to IE3
# [22:49] <davidmurdoch> what?
# [22:49] <tw2113> i dunno
# [22:50] <davidmurdoch> lol
# [22:50] <tw2113> i just dislike the code they tend to provide for their "click here to pay" stuff
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# [22:50] <Pewpewarrows> davidmurdoch: my co-worker rages whenever he has to do paypal stuff, the documentation and tutorials were complete garbage
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# [22:51] <tw2113> hulk smash type rage?
# [22:51] <Pewpewarrows> they might have improved since, idk
# [22:51] <antonkovalyov> is it better to provide your work email or your personal one when joining some semi-official mailing list (whatwg in my case)?
# [22:52] <tw2113> would it be specifically work related antonkovalyov ?
# [22:52] <tw2113> or just benefitting your dayjob work?
# [22:52] <tw2113> as well as personal growth outside of work
# [22:53] <antonkovalyov> latter, i guess
# [22:53] <Pewpewarrows> I almost exclusively use personal email, except when I'm doing something strictly under company business on a near-onetime basis
# [22:53] <tw2113> i say use personal, and perhaps any of the really interesting stuff that could benefit the company, forward to yourself
# [22:53] <tw2113> or as i tend to do, links and evernote
# [22:53] <nimbupani> use workrelated antonkovalyov if you are representing your company
# [22:54] <nimbupani> personal if ur opinions are yours alone and not of your company.
# [22:54] <tw2113> she has a good point
# [22:54] <antonkovalyov> hmmmmm
# [22:55] <antonkovalyov> my opinions are my opinions, but they affect the company
# [22:55] <antonkovalyov> it is hard to keep it separate in a startup :)
# [22:55] <davidmurdoch> I must retract my original paypal rant.
# [22:55] <antonkovalyov> oh ok @disqus.com it is then
# [22:56] <davidmurdoch> It turns out the CMS being used on the site I'm working on routes all POST through a handler that checks the HTTP referrer header. If there is no referrer header (as there wouldn't be for a paypal IPN) it 400's the request.
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# [23:51] <jeffszusz> where's the best html5 reference? sitepoint doesn't have an html5 specific one, and mozilla's html5 reference just lists a few new things
# [23:51] <jeffszusz> unless i'm missing something
# [23:52] <nimbupani> ?g diveintohtml5
# [23:52] <bot-t> nimbupani, Dive Into HTML5 - http://diveintohtml5.org/
# [23:53] <jeffszusz> sweet thanks nimbupani
# [23:53] <tw2113> +1
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# Session Close: Tue Jan 18 00:00:00 2011

The end :)