/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-01-18 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Jan 18 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [01:55] <antonkovalyov> yo paul_irish you coming tonight?
# [01:55] <paul_irish> to ben's?
# [01:55] <antonkovalyov> to the twitter thing
# [01:55] <antonkovalyov> anyone else coming?
# [01:55] <antonkovalyov> ya
# [01:56] <paul_irish> hmmmmmm im on the waiting list.. but it would be fun..
# [01:58] <antonkovalyov> i thought you're just going to walk in screaming "I AM PAUL IRISH"
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# [01:58] <antonkovalyov> because you and ben know each other or something
# [02:01] <paul_irish> oh right. that was the plan.
# [02:01] <antonkovalyov> i wonder if people plan to grab beer afterwards
# [02:03] <paul_irish> that is the plan on the meetup page
# [02:03] <antonkovalyov> orly
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# [02:10] <ben_c> ooo loving the new modernizr builder, CLIENT SIDE BUILDER FTW
# [02:10] <ben_c> http://www.modernizr.com/news/modernizr-2-0-beta
# [02:11] <paul_irish> :D
# [02:11] <paul_irish> slexaxton made it
# [02:11] <paul_irish> it rocks
# [02:12] <ben_c> just need a boilerplate one now ;-)
# [02:12] <Rapala_> yayquery paul_irish?
# [02:12] <paul_irish> yup that one.
# [02:12] <paul_irish> ben_c: it's actually completed.
# [02:12] <paul_irish> i just need to merge it in and make someone else's code not suck
# [02:12] <Rapala_> sweet, celebrity. I enjoy the podcast
# [02:12] <paul_irish> great! :)
# [02:13] <ben_c> paul_irish: nice one
# [02:13] <ben_c> hi5s all round!
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# [02:14] <masondesu> paul_irish, hey congrats on getting Slex on the Modernizr team. just saw the news
# [02:14] <masondesu> two more members and you guys are gonna be able to go Voltron-style
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# [02:22] <paul_irish> \o/
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# [02:38] <antonkovalyov> my jquery ticket is now a blocker
# [02:38] <antonkovalyov> sweet
# [02:40] <antonkovalyov> does anybody know why the diff: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/447925/Screenshots/5hpgrmhd1ch-.png
# [02:40] <antonkovalyov> i wonder what are the rules for representation
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# [02:59] <Rapala_> if anyone's bored feel free to hit http://71.234.90.100/test/index-browser.html and let me know if you get a decent number of frames per second. It's a little 2D HTML5 game engine I'm working on. FF / Chrome / Safari
# [02:59] <Rapala_> can't do anything on it, don't have event handling set up for browsers (I'm testing mostly on iOS). But it's fun to watch the crates fall, haha
# [03:00] <antonkovalyov> Fps: ~60
# [03:00] <Rapala_> thanks, browser?
# [03:00] <antonkovalyov> Chrome 10.0.634.0 dev, MacBook Pro
# [03:00] <Rapala_> thanks for the info.
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# [03:00] <antonkovalyov> np
# [03:01] <Rapala_> now if only my iPod touch could handle that test at more than 20fps :)
# [03:01] <digitalfiz> i get 60fps too
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# [03:02] <Rapala_> thanks digitalfiz.
# [03:02] <Rapala_> i have it locked to 60 for now, so if everyone seems to be hitting that I'm happy.
# [03:02] <digitalfiz> ubuntu 11.04 64bit Chrome 9.0.597.45 beta
# [03:03] <digitalfiz> let me check on my cr48
# [03:04] <ben_c> 60fps for me on mac!
# [03:04] <Rapala_> I read that as "let me check on my c64" for some reason. Was gonna say, it's not yet optimised for commodore
# [03:04] <Rapala_> awesome!
# [03:04] <antonkovalyov> Rapala_, iPhone 4 — ~10 :-(
# [03:05] <digitalfiz> Rapala_, i get 50~ fps on my cr48
# [03:05] <Rapala_> antonkovalyov: yeah, i'm getting about 20fps here on a previous generation ipod touch running through phonegapp
# [03:05] <Rapala_> thanks digitalfiz
# [03:06] <Rapala_> most of the processing is going toward box2dJs... so I'm hoping I can optimise that a little. It runs well enough that i feel i may be able to get decent performance for mobile games on iOS if I don't do too much physics stuff
# [03:07] <Rapala_> of course the biggest problem is probably my shoddy javascript, haha
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# [03:09] <Rapala_> android via phonegap just pukes pixels all over the screen randomly because i'm not accounting for various screen densities correctly
# [03:11] <digitalfiz> 4~ fps on my htc g1 lol
# [03:11] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: dont think i can make it :/
# [03:11] <Rapala_> haha
# [03:11] <digitalfiz> 2fps when the screen fills
# [03:12] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, sucks
# [03:12] <digitalfiz> i love my dinosaur phone
# [03:12] <Rapala_> I think even if i fix the density thing android webkit is currently too slow anyway. Though i haven't thought much about optimization yet
# [03:12] <Rapala_> I loved my g1, but I'm happy with my rooted Fascinate now
# [03:14] <digitalfiz> it servs it purpose
# [03:15] <Rapala_> It was my lifeline to the world when I moved to Austin a few years ago. Didn't have much money so I got a campsite at the state park and tethered to the 3G while looking for a job, haha
# [03:16] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, you can join later for beer :)
# [03:17] <antonkovalyov> or shall i say: "for the best part"
# [03:17] <Rapala_> beer, good idea. brb
# [03:18] <digitalfiz> lol it crashed safari on my ipod touch
# [03:19] <Rapala_> haha
# [03:19] <digitalfiz> i wasnt seeing the fps counter either
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# [03:20] <digitalfiz> mine still has ios 3.1 on it though
# [03:21] <digitalfiz> i paid apple once to upgrade ill be damned if imma do it again :P
# [03:22] <Rapala_> not crashing here running 4.2, but not running very fast
# [03:22] <Rapala_> runs much better via phonegap
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# [04:04] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, didn't make it?
# [04:06] <paul_irish> nah
# [04:06] <paul_irish> streaming online
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# [04:35] <antonkovalyov> thatryan, yt?
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# [04:52] <thatryan> antonkovalyov: hey man
# [04:53] <antonkovalyov> my coworker can't go to the day of js
# [04:53] <antonkovalyov> if you want and if we can transfer the ticket, he can give it up
# [04:53] <thatryan> oh really???
# [04:53] <antonkovalyov> ya
# [04:53] <antonkovalyov> rly :)
# [04:55] <thatryan> thats rad what day is it again
# [04:55] <thatryan> next thursday, same as boilerplate talk ?
# [04:56] <antonkovalyov> yeha
# [04:56] <antonkovalyov> yeah
# [04:59] <thatryan> possible to make both? lol ;)
# [04:59] <antonkovalyov> you have a car don't you
# [04:59] <antonkovalyov> you'll have to skip the last panel though
# [04:59] <thatryan> yup
# [04:59] <antonkovalyov> i am skipping and then paul_irish agreed to let me into his/google car :)
# [05:00] <thatryan> google car! vroom vroom
# [05:00] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, twitter is using modernizr
# [05:00] <antonkovalyov> coool
# [05:00] <paul_irish> Yeah! i know. :)
# [05:00] <paul_irish> pretty sweet
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# [05:00] <antonkovalyov> not a lot of people i know here :(
# [05:00] <thatryan> where
# [05:00] <antonkovalyov> no bar afterwards i guess
# [05:01] <antonkovalyov> meetup about #newtwitter performance
# [05:01] <thatryan> ahhh
# [05:02] <daleharvey> ok android uiwebview is being weird with a pretty plain form
# [05:02] <daleharvey> http://dropup.net/3xpg8k-qab83o.png.html
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# [05:05] <tw2113> paul_irish a small suggestion for the beta page...a checkbox to select all/none
# [05:06] <tw2113> easy selection for the ambitious
# [05:10] <paul_irish> it takes THREE clicks to do that
# [05:10] <paul_irish> now
# [05:10] <paul_irish> so you want to do that in 2 less?
# [05:11] <paul_irish> okay i just did that. 1 click to select all: http://paulirish.com/i/ca11.png
# [05:11] <tw2113> didn't see the toggle bit
# [05:11] <paul_irish> o
# [05:11] <tw2113> my bad :D
# [05:11] <tw2113> sorry paul
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# [05:13] <thatryan> cgcardona: you here?
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# [05:14] <thatryan> i cant remember who i was talking with last night about putting my browsingbetter.com site on github, who was it? :)
# [05:14] <tw2113> not me
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# [05:15] <thatryan> dammit
# [05:15] <thatryan> thats not helpful :)
# [05:19] <tw2113> i love how people in css/html help channels say "Hey, I need help. I'm using $themename. Please help!"
# [05:19] <tw2113> given how many possible themes there are with however many names
# [05:21] <thatryan> what channel are you in
# [05:22] <tw2113> i'm pretty steadily in #wordpress, but this spark came from reddit
# [05:22] <thatryan> lol
# [05:22] <tw2113> and sadly, this person was dumb enough to go with a theme that did table layouts
# [05:23] <thatryan> whoa i just tried to join #wordpress
# [05:23] <thatryan> said i was banned, then a message shows "you are not welcome" lol what the fuck
# [05:23] <tw2113> i have no idea
# [05:24] <thatryan> lame
# [05:24] <tw2113> i wonder if someone else had your ID before and got it banned
# [05:24] <thatryan> bastards!
# [05:25] <tw2113> ugh, nasty theme
# [05:25] <tw2113> http://potlimitomahastrategies.com/omaha-rules/
# [05:25] <tw2113> table layout, embedded css
# [05:25] <tw2113> and yet uses stuff like border radius
# [05:26] <tw2113> 89 validation errors, but most seem to be improper image closing
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# [05:30] <thatryan> lol thats hot
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# [05:37] <jeffszusz> thatryan is your name registered?
# [05:37] <jeffszusz> there are a lot of rooms on freenode you can't enter without a registered nickname
# [05:37] <thatryan> jeffszusz: yeah to me
# [05:38] <jeffszusz> hm ok
# [05:38] <tw2113> i know some of the mods in there, i'll ask about it next time i see one
# [05:39] <thatryan> thanks guys
# [05:39] <tw2113> i'm in there enough sometimes, i wouldn't be surprised if someone suggested me for an entry level mod
# [05:41] <tw2113> this headline just doesn't make sense......excited....about patents......http://mashable.com/2011/01/17/apple-patents/
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# [06:38] <thatryan> yay i haz a github ribbon now http://browsingbetter.com :)
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# [07:32] <Neiluj> thatryan: it was me yesterday
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# [07:32] <thatryan> RIGHT!
# [07:32] <Neiluj> ;) hey
# [07:33] <thatryan> lol hey man
# [07:33] <Neiluj> saw your github, forked
# [07:33] <thatryan> I knew your name started with N
# [07:33] <thatryan> :p
# [07:33] <thatryan> sweet! Hope I did it right, first time using git :D
# [07:33] <Neiluj> easy to remember, my name is Julien, my nickname is reversed
# [07:33] <thatryan> ooohhh clever
# [07:36] <Neiluj> your images folder looks empty
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# [07:39] <thatryan> really? crap lemme look
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# [07:40] <Neiluj> dunno why but my apache didn't like your .htaccess :)
# [07:41] <thatryan> damn why did the images not upload
# [07:41] <antonkovalyov> yoo thatryan you coming on thursday?
# [07:42] <Neiluj> paul_irish: Modernizr build tool is awesome, thx to Alex
# [07:43] <thatryan> hey antonkovalyov don't think I can dude, would have to ask boss man but cant until morning, so dont want to hold ya up ;) appreciate it though!
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# [07:44] <antonkovalyov> ask about what?
# [07:44] <tw2113> who wants to endorse that i'm fucking nuts?
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# [07:45] <thatryan> antonkovalyov: if i can take a whole day off
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# [07:45] <antonkovalyov> waait what are you talking about? :)
# [07:45] <thatryan> i have no idea now lol
# [07:46] <antonkovalyov> dayofjs is next week you can tell me whenever
# [07:46] <thatryan> ohh yeah heh
# [07:46] <thatryan> ok just did not want to hold you up ;)
# [07:46] <antonkovalyov> i am talking about js pub night this thursday :)
# [07:46] * Neiluj wishes be in US to go with antonkovalyov and paul
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# [07:47] <Neiluj> js conf are pretty rare in here ^^
# [07:47] <thatryan> antonkovalyov: oh right. ha. so much new stuff for me this week im getting confused :)
# [07:47] <antonkovalyov> where are you from Neiluj?
# [07:48] <tw2113> thatryan i plan to appeal your #wordpress case in the morning
# [07:48] <thatryan> yes, that i should be able to make. though I don't drink, so im pretty lame
# [07:48] <thatryan> tw2113: thanks man, appreciate it
# [07:48] <Neiluj> antonkovalyov: cheese and wine land
# [07:48] <antonkovalyov> i could guess by julien :)
# [07:48] <Neiluj> ;)
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# [07:50] <Neiluj> does somebody know why there's no FileReader in webkit but only in FF ? :-/
# [07:50] <Neiluj> not yet implemented ?
# [07:51] <paul_irish> wat?
# [07:51] <paul_irish> http://bit.ly/chromestatus
# [07:51] <paul_irish> it's in chrome 7, which everyone has
# [07:51] <Neiluj> paul_irish: silly me, I only tested in Safari's console...
# [07:52] <paul_irish> weak.
# [07:52] <Neiluj> indeed, Chrome is ok
# [07:52] <Neiluj> yeah I know, bad habits ;)
# [07:52] <Neiluj> ok, now, where is the FileWriter :P
# [07:55] <paul_irish> :)
# [07:57] <thatryan> why if i type git add . then check status would it say "nothing to commit, working directory clean" ??
# [07:58] <tw2113> i get slightly frustrated with git over stuff like that
# [07:59] <tw2113> when i can get it to work well, all goes smooth, but if i'm just struggling for some reason when the commands indicate it should be working, i yank hair
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# [08:03] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, what about you? coming or hitler?
# [08:03] <paul_irish> wat
# [08:03] <thatryan> hitler, ha!
# [08:03] <paul_irish> coming where what when
# [08:03] <antonkovalyov> this thursday, benders bar and grill, javascript pub night
# [08:04] <antonkovalyov> you know who else is not coming? hitler! coincedence? i think not
# [08:04] <thatryan> lol
# [08:04] <tw2113> what? hitler isn't showing up?
# [08:04] <tw2113> i wonder if he'll be back in time for his birthday
# [08:04] <thatryan> can we come if we dont drink? :(
# [08:04] <antonkovalyov> sure
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# [08:05] <antonkovalyov> driving?
# [08:05] <tw2113> thatryan think of it this way
# [08:05] <tw2113> the less beer you drink, the more is available for others
# [08:05] <thatryan> yeah i drive everywhere
# [08:05] <thatryan> tw2113: lol i am helping then ;)
# [08:05] <tw2113> the more they drink, the bigger fools they risk being
# [08:06] <thatryan> W3FOOLS!
# [08:06] <thatryan> heh
# [08:06] <tw2113> or the better more absurd ideas they may spit out that they should remember the next day
# [08:07] <antonkovalyov> i think you overestimate the amount people drink there
# [08:07] <tw2113> *shrugs*
# [08:11] <thatryan> somehow i had an ignore flag set in git for my images folder?
# [08:11] <thatryan> how do i clear that
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# [08:13] <thatryan> w00t nm uploading :)
# [08:13] <thatryan> Neiluj: still around?
# [08:14] <Neiluj> thatryan: yup
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# [08:14] <thatryan> sweet, got all the images in there now
# [08:14] <thatryan> not sure where the .gitignore keeps coming from...
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# [08:16] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: yeah.. wait github meetup is when?
# [08:16] <paul_irish> typekit meetup wednesday night. probably going to that.
# [08:16] <antonkovalyov> github meetup was last week :)
# [08:16] <paul_irish> o. how was it
# [08:16] <antonkovalyov> i did not go
# [08:17] <paul_irish> hitler also did not go.
# [08:17] <thatryan> lol
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# [08:17] <paul_irish> #justsayin
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# [08:17] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [08:17] <antonkovalyov> what is typekit meetup is about?
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# [08:19] <thatryan> type
# [08:19] <thatryan> :p
# [08:19] <cgcardona> that wasn't me who mentioned it last night thatryan
# [08:19] <jo-erlend> let's say I have a collection of articles, like a newspaper does. Some articles are more important than others. Would it be appropriate to use a hgroup for those articles?
# [08:20] <cgcardona> i think the person's name started with a k
# [08:20] <cgcardona> they were french
# [08:20] <cgcardona> didnt they create that djs site
# [08:20] <thatryan> cgcardona: lol thanks it was neiluj
# [08:20] <Neiluj> yup
# [08:20] <cgcardona> cool
# [08:20] <thatryan> aka julien ;)
# [08:20] <cgcardona> :)
# [08:20] <Neiluj> no k ;)
# [08:20] <thatryan> heh
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# [08:21] <Neiluj> for info, I've just made his site, I can't hear his music anymore... -__-
# [08:22] <thatryan> Neiluj: so you going to French translate the site? :D
# [08:22] <Neiluj> <audio> gave me an overdose
# [08:22] <Neiluj> thatryan: sure, on my free time ;)
# [08:22] <thatryan> Neiluj: awesome dude, thanks :)
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# [08:23] <Neiluj> np
# [08:23] <Neiluj> somebody know how to "update" a fork ?
# [08:24] <paul_irish> hey someone answer jo-erlend!
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# [08:25] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: imo hgroup is for grouping h tags, nothing else
# [08:25] <Neiluj> <hgroup><h1>...</h1><h2>...</h2></hgroup>
# [08:26] <paul_irish> Neiluj: git remote add upstream omgupstreamurlhere
# [08:26] <Neiluj> something you can do is use <h1> as title for the important one, and <h2> for the less important
# [08:26] <paul_irish> git pull upstream master
# [08:26] <Neiluj> paul_irish: thx, I'll try right now
# [08:27] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, still, it would provide some semantics to show which stories are more important?
# [08:27] <Neiluj> omgupstreamurlhere is my fork url or the source one ?
# [08:27] <thatryan> hey paul_irish
# [08:27] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: only for the title :/
# [08:28] <thatryan> how do you know everything?
# [08:29] <Neiluj> thatryan: because Google knows everything ;)
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# [08:29] <paul_irish> thatryan: lots of time spent on the internet.
# [08:29] <thatryan> paul_irish: be my yoda? ;)
# [08:30] <Neiluj> paul_irish: still have time to have a life ?
# [08:30] <paul_irish> thatryan: also.. i dont know jack shit about php or databases or... anything that's not javascript/html/css
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# [08:30] <paul_irish> very specific domain knowledge :)
# [08:30] <thatryan> paul_irish: lol well better to be a master of some than a dabbler of many
# [08:30] <thatryan> :)
# [08:30] <paul_irish> Neiluj: omgupstream is the original upsream. of course
# [08:31] <Evet> well, im working on server-side html
# [08:31] <Neiluj> ok thx
# [08:32] <Neiluj> paul_irish: thx, it worked !
# [08:32] <thatryan> im am just happy to finally start using github :)
# [08:32] <thatryan> now to make more shit!
# [08:32] <thatryan> ha
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# [08:33] <Neiluj> to share the shit all over the world ;)
# [08:33] <paul_irish> danbeam: yo
# [08:33] <paul_irish> did you talk to someone about yr css wahtevers
# [08:35] <antonkovalyov> after todays talk
# [08:35] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: I had a look, I don't think there's really a semantic way to say !important
# [08:35] <antonkovalyov> i am really thinking about prepping something about disqus
# [08:35] <antonkovalyov> we do some cool shit
# [08:36] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, isn't that a little strange if the main goal of html5 is to provide a more semantic web?
# [08:36] <Neiluj> :)
# [08:37] <Neiluj> well you can say what's important in a text, in a <p>
# [08:37] <jo-erlend> what does that mean?
# [08:37] <Neiluj> but a whole block of content is a different thing
# [08:38] <thatryan> antonkovalyov: prepping something like what
# [08:38] <antonkovalyov> like a talk
# [08:39] <thatryan> so you can discuss disqus? :D
# [08:39] <antonkovalyov> :-)
# [08:39] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: also, imo, semantic is not really about what's important or not but more about the meaning of content
# [08:39] <paul_irish> http://blogs.sitepoint.com/2011/01/18/podcast-95-the-undetectables-with-paul-irish/ :)
# [08:39] <thatryan> thats from the future
# [08:40] <Neiluj> paul_irish: yeah !
# [08:40] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, right. This is a top story. This is a tiny, unimportant, small story.
# [08:41] <thatryan> lol the "big orange play button" is not showing in chrome :p
# [08:41] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, or... This is a main debate entry (level 1). This is a reply to a debate entry (level 2), etc. Doesn't that make sense?
# [08:42] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: mmh thinking and searching
# [08:42] <Neiluj> that's actually a good question
# [08:43] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: what's your content really about ?
# [08:44] <Neiluj> is that really articles like newspaper ?
# [08:44] <Neiluj> blog posts ?
# [08:44] <jo-erlend> it's not an actual problem. I'm reading diveintohtml5.org. I'm just trying to understand this new stuff. :)
# [08:44] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, yes, for instance. :>
# [08:45] <Neiluj> okay
# [08:46] <jo-erlend> it just seems very likely to me that people will want to markup groups of content as more or less important, just like you would with headers. Actually, I think it'd probably be more semantic to group content and then add the header to that content.
# [08:47] <antonkovalyov> i really don't get the section element in html5 specs
# [08:47] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, little help here?
# [08:47] <Neiluj> again, semantic is about meaning, what is the title, what is the content, what is aside, what are the sources, what is the legend, etc... all of this exists now in html5
# [08:48] <paul_irish> haha i have no interest in the semantic elements actually
# [08:48] <Neiluj> I would say "important" is not really semantic because it's subjective
# [08:48] <paul_irish> ?g html5doctor section element
# [08:48] <bot-t> paul_irish, The section element | HTML5 Doctor - http://html5doctor.com/the-section-element/
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# [08:48] <Neiluj> I would also put the most important, the ones YOU think are, in a <section>
# [08:48] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, yes. But to me, h1-6 seems to be about presentation, since it doesn't say what the header "contains".
# [08:49] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, every time you use ?g i feel retarted :)
# [08:49] <bot-t> paul_irish, Sometimes I feel like I'm retarded. And maybe I am. How can I be ... - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101018020040AAPY2ZG
# [08:49] <antonkovalyov> retarded*
# [08:49] <Neiluj> loool :D
# [08:49] <paul_irish> hahhaah
# [08:49] <thatryan> lol
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# [08:49] <antonkovalyov> hahahah
# [08:49] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: sorry. i am actually very retarded on section/article/group etc. :)
# [08:51] <Neiluj> section is really hard to fully understand since it's a very generic name, I'm pretty sure I'm mis-using it everyday
# [08:51] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, wouldn't you say that <p><h1>paragraph header</h1></p> is more semantic than <h1>paragraph header></h1><p></p>?
# [08:51] <Neiluj> it can be understand as a site's section or as a content's section...
# [08:52] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: <h> are forbidden inside <p> ;)
# [08:52] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, oh well :)
# [08:52] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, it is? I didn't know that. :) But still! :)
# [08:52] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: afaik yes
# [08:53] <Neiluj> webkit will give you something very special if you do that :)
# [08:53] <jo-erlend> ok?
# [08:54] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: I need to check but maybe the best way is to something like <strong><article><h1><p>... but it sounds weird
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# [08:55] <Neiluj> naah ... can't be good
# [08:55] <jo-erlend> no, that probably makes sense, except that it wouldn't give you more than one extra level. Unless you use strong in strong, if that's legal, but in any case it's ugly :)
# [08:56] <jo-erlend> <strong><article> <-- The current featured article. Makes sense. Perhaps that's enough.
# [08:56] <Neiluj> strong can't contain article ;)
# [08:56] <jo-erlend> dammit! :)
# [08:56] <Neiluj> validator cried
# [08:56] <Neiluj> logical
# [08:56] <jo-erlend> why?
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# [08:56] <Neiluj> that's the rule
# [08:56] <Neiluj> strong is for text
# [08:56] <jo-erlend> hehe. it's logical because it's the rule? I'd prefer it if it was the rule because it was logical. :)
# [08:57] <Neiluj> but there's some kind of exception
# [08:57] <jo-erlend> "strong is for text"? Why?!
# [08:57] <jo-erlend> because it should be presented in bold?
# [08:57] <Neiluj> nope, styling is not a problem
# [08:58] <Neiluj> strong was made for make some text extract important, not whole content
# [08:58] <jo-erlend> ok. I'll stop nagging now. :)
# [08:58] <Neiluj> I thought <a> was the same but not anymore
# [08:58] <Neiluj> you can do <a><article><h1><p>
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# [08:58] <Neiluj> no problem, it's valid
# [08:59] <Neiluj> and browsers like it
# [08:59] <jo-erlend> you can put anything inside an a, can't you? I thought that was always legal.
# [08:59] <Neiluj> I don't think it was in html4
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# [09:00] <paul_irish> block level inside A was not legal in html4
# [09:01] <antonkovalyov> waait a se
# [09:01] <antonkovalyov> sec*
# [09:02] <Neiluj> it looked weird and ugly the first time I did it but it's very useful :)
# [09:02] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, any examples of that? I couldn't come up with any.
# [09:02] <Neiluj> it can save some javascript ...
# [09:02] <jo-erlend> ...?
# [09:02] <Neiluj> for example... a list of articles
# [09:03] <jo-erlend> please elaborate?
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# [09:03] <Neiluj> <ul><li><a><h2>title</h2><time>1234567890</time></a></li>...
# [09:03] <Neiluj> you can even put a <p> for the teaser...
# [09:03] <thatryan> anyone use Gist?
# [09:03] <Neiluj> the whole article preview is a link
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# [09:04] <Neiluj> thatryan: time to time
# [09:04] <thatryan> better than pastie?
# [09:04] <paul_irish> http://www.trovster.com/lab/plugins/fitted/
# [09:05] <paul_irish> http://newism.com.au/blog/post/58/bigtarget-js-increasing-the-size-of-clickable-targets/
# [09:05] <paul_irish> ^ why you would want to throw an <a> around block elems
# [09:05] <Neiluj> good examples :)
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# [09:06] <Neiluj> thatryan: afaik pastie is not versioned ?
# [09:06] <thatryan> paul_irish: your talk comes with pizza!!
# [09:06] <Neiluj> gist is
# [09:06] <paul_irish> sweeeeet
# [09:06] <thatryan> Neiluj: ah good point
# [09:07] <Neiluj> "versioned, forkable and usable as a git repository."
# [09:07] <thatryan> yeah was just reading that ;)
# [09:08] <Neiluj> I read "fuckable" -_-
# [09:08] <thatryan> I just like how easily pastie is integrated with textmate, one key combination and bam
# [09:08] <thatryan> ha
# [09:08] <jo-erlend> paul_irish, thanks for those examples. They were useful.
# [09:08] <paul_irish> np
# [09:08] <Neiluj> thatryan: should'nt be hard to make the same with gist
# [09:09] <Neiluj> but I'm not a Textmate user, I'm still in love with Coda
# [09:09] <thatryan> was just about to open that bundle up ;)
# [09:09] <thatryan> coda booo
# [09:09] <thatryan> :p
# [09:09] <Neiluj> :p
# [09:09] <thatryan> shit it is in ruby lol
# [09:09] <Neiluj> ha!
# [09:10] <thatryan> will take a bit longer, :)
# [09:10] <thatryan> ok tackle that tomorrow since i dont know ruby night guys!
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# [09:15] <jo-erlend> Firefox 3.5 doesn't make the entire area clickable though. It still only makes the text clickable.
# [09:16] <jo-erlend> oh. Sorry. It does.
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# [09:17] <jo-erlend> hmmm. If I use <a><h1>test</h1><p>text</p></a>, then everything is clickable. If I use <a><article><h1>test</h1><p>test</p></a>, then only the text becomes clickable.
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# [09:21] <Neiluj> let me check
# [09:23] <Neiluj> look at firebug... firefox is doing something really weird
# [09:24] <jo-erlend> yes, I noticed that. It seemed to make it both a link and not a link.
# [09:24] <Neiluj> with webkit it's ok
# [09:25] <Neiluj> wtf? it does put the article inside the a but it's getting out the <h1> and the <p> and put a <a> inside it?
# [09:25] <jo-erlend> right.
# [09:26] <Neiluj> I don't know if paul rouget is here, but FF sucks...
# [09:26] <jo-erlend> hehe.
# [09:28] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: actually, in FF 4 it's ok
# [09:29] <Neiluj> FF3 sucks
# [09:29] <jo-erlend> that's good to know. I'll upgrade to it eventually.
# [09:30] <beevi7> <a><h1></h1></a> is invalid
# [09:30] <beevi7> isnt it?
# [09:30] <jo-erlend> no, that's valid.
# [09:31] <Neiluj> beevi7: in html5 it is
# [09:32] <jo-erlend> ...valid. :)
# [09:33] <Neiluj> paul_irish: Modernizr doesn't fix FF3 on this :)
# [09:35] <Neiluj> FF Fail, IE6/7/8 are ok on this ! :D
# [09:35] <jo-erlend> lol
# [09:35] <jo-erlend> (and I don't say that alot!)
# [09:36] <Neiluj> hehe ;)
# [09:36] <Neiluj> even the css is not respected, that's a shame
# [09:36] <jo-erlend> I noticed that as well.
# [09:37] <Neiluj> interesting, if you change the article by a div, it works
# [09:38] <jo-erlend> not css though?
# [09:38] <Neiluj> yes it is
# [09:39] <beevi7> oh really? weird
# [09:40] <jo-erlend> beevi7, really nice, as it turns out.
# [09:40] <Neiluj> http://pastie.org/1472777
# [09:41] <Neiluj> yeah I know, no <html> <head> <body> :)
# [09:41] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, http://pastie.org/1472783
# [09:42] <jo-erlend> that acts really strangely. I can't see anything wrong with the code though?
# [09:43] <Neiluj> yup, looking...
# [09:43] <Neiluj> display: block;
# [09:43] <Neiluj> on A
# [09:44] <beevi7> allowing href on any element would be the more awesome solution imho
# [09:44] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, ah. .)
# [09:44] <beevi7> thinking of <a><h1></h1></a> being valid html feels really odd
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# [09:46] <Neiluj> beevi7: odd but useful ;)
# [09:46] <beevi7> i'm not quite sure, yet ;)
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# [09:47] <Neiluj> it's maybe cleaner than have href attributes available on every tags, which was another option
# [09:47] <beevi7> but nesting block element inside inline elements is so ... phew
# [09:47] <beevi7> strange?! ;)
# [09:48] <jo-erlend> why?
# [09:48] <Neiluj> yeah that's the only one
# [09:48] <jo-erlend> oh.
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# [09:48] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: because that's logical, blocks contain inlines, inlines dont contain blocks...
# [09:49] <jo-erlend> right, I saw the explanation after I asked. :)
# [09:49] <Neiluj> ;)
# [09:49] <Neiluj> anyway, with css you can tell blocks to be inlines and inlines to be blocks :D
# [09:49] <jo-erlend> so, if an <a> was an inline element when it only contained inline elements, but a block element if it contained any block elements, then it'd not be strange?
# [09:50] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: A are still inline actually
# [09:50] <Neiluj> that's why you didn't see your background until you put display:block on it ;)
# [09:50] <jo-erlend> right, that's why I said "if" :)
# [09:51] <jo-erlend> I think an A should automatically be considered a block element if it contains any block elements, since it'd probably never make sense to treat it as an inline element if it contains a block element?
# [09:51] <Neiluj> I think a lot of people at w3 cried the day they decided this
# [09:51] <Neiluj> good point
# [09:52] <jo-erlend> does the difference between block and inline have any semantic difference?
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# [09:54] <jo-erlend> I mean, semantically, it makes sense to place the entire link inside an A, even if it might feel awkward if you're thinking of it as clickable text.
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# [09:59] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: I don't think so but I'm not an expert
# [10:03] <jo-erlend> I just started looking into this a few days ago, so to me, you seem like an expert. :)
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# [11:00] <tuxnani> some few doubts : 1. Why is it that IE doesnt support HTML5, whereas even older versions of firefox or chrome are working + is it only because of DOM?
# [11:01] <jo-erlend> as as I understand it, nobody supports html5. They only support certain features of it. IE does that.
# [11:04] <Neiluj> paul_irish: what did you plan to do about the undetectables ?
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# [11:20] <Neiluj> maybe a Sniffenizr ? :D
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# [11:25] <temhawk> hi
# [11:27] <Neiluj> tuxnani: jo-erlend is right, IE supports html5's doctype like any browsers, but it's not supporting some features, some others are because they were specified "from" IE implementations
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# [11:59] <tuxnani> Neiluj, Sniffenizr?
# [12:01] <tuxnani> jo-erlend, the IE i have probably IE 7 cannot handle the ball pool effect
# [12:01] <jo-erlend> tuxnani, ball pool effect?
# [12:02] <tuxnani> jo-erlend, http://mrdoob.com/91/Ball_Pool_HTML5
# [12:02] <jo-erlend> I don't think that's HTML, to be honest.
# [12:03] <jo-erlend> omg... That's probably the ugliest HTML I've seen this year.
# [12:05] <jo-erlend> tuxnani, that looks like some use of canvas. That's a part of html5. The funny thing is that it isn't supported in IE because that's where it comes from. As I understand it. I'm fairly new at this.
# [12:05] <tuxnani> jo-erlend, i didnt get what you're trying to say, by saying "The funny thing is that it isn't supported in IE because that's where it comes from."
# [12:06] <jo-erlend> right. IE has its own canvas, that's called something else. That's where the HTML5 canvas comes from, but IE doesn't support that spec yet. I think IE9 will.
# [12:09] <Neiluj> IE9 should already
# [12:09] <jo-erlend> yes, but since it isn't released yet...
# [12:15] <jo-erlend> «Browsers that support HTML5 video will find a video source they can play and play it, and ignore the nested <object> element altogether.» <-- Is that true? What about if I list three videoformats and the browser doesn't support any of them, will it still use the object element?
# [12:17] <jo-erlend> the next sentence seems to indicate differently: «That last bit is the key to the whole puzzle: HTML5 specifies that all elements (other than <source> elements) that are children of a <video> element must be ignored altogether. That allows you to use HTML5 video in newer browsers and fall back to Flash gracefully in older browsers, without requiring any fancy JavaScript hacks.»
# [12:22] <tuxnani> jo-erlend, sounds kewl, no javascript tweeks or flash?
# [12:26] <jo-erlend> right.
# [12:27] <jo-erlend> the question is whether or not it will fall back to flash if it does support html5 video, but doesn't support any of the formats I've provided.
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# [12:37] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: give it a try ;)
# [12:38] <jo-erlend> too much work. :)
# [12:38] <Neiluj> wrong answer ! :D
# [12:38] <jo-erlend> hehe
# [12:39] <jo-erlend> I want to get through this book, and then I want to move onto css3.
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# [13:01] <tuxnani> jo-erlend, any book on html5?
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# [13:04] <jo-erlend> the topic sais so, doesn't it? http://diveintohtml5.org
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# [13:11] <andrewjbaker_> Lookin' thru' the spec. there doesn't appear to be a canvas.loadImage() method. I spotted a call to it when toying with fxCanvas. Is the method fxCanvas-specific?
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# [13:25] <Ms2ger> andrewjbaker_, presumably. I've never heard of it before
# [13:26] <andrewjbaker_> Ms2ger: Thank you. Just trying to get fxCanvas working; tried explorercanvas but I use the getImageData() method for plucking data from heightmaps, and excanvas doesn't support getImageData(). :-s
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# [13:39] <jo-erlend> the diveintohtml5.org book has a localStorage example. It seems like fairly simple data, but it's _very_ slow.
# [13:39] <jo-erlend> is that a problem with localStorage itself, is it a problem with fx 3.5, or what?
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# [13:47] <ben_c> HTML5 LOGO - http://blue-harvest.appspot.com/html/logo/
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# [13:48] <jo-erlend> smashing :)
# [13:49] <jo-erlend> nice page design, btw.
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# [14:28] <digitalfiz> ben_c, over quota
# [14:29] <paul_irish> http://www.w3.org/html/logo/
# [14:29] <ben_c> oh I didn't make it, just linked: http://www.w3.org/html/logo/
# [14:29] <ben_c> snap
# [14:30] <ben_c> I never thought the W3C would have a BADGE BUILDER 5000 !
# [14:30] <paul_irish> 5000!
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# [14:33] <digitalfiz> wow the shirts are spensive lol
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# [14:37] <ben_c> So does CSS3 being included in the HTML5 logo builder mean the battle is over?
# [14:38] <Neiluj> w3c is using Modernizr :)
# [14:39] <paul_irish> :)
# [14:40] <Neiluj> paul_irish: you may be very proud ;)
# [14:41] <andrewjbaker_> Would Modernizr tell me if the fillText() function were implemented?
# [14:41] <Neiluj> love the badge :)
# [14:41] <paul_irish> aint that Modernizr.canvastext ?
# [14:43] <andrewjbaker_> paul_irish: A quick Google says... yes. Thx. Need it for my HTML5 canvas 2.5D landscape engine.
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# [14:44] <paul_irish> oh sweeet
# [14:45] <andrewjbaker_> paul_irish: 'Live demo'... http://fleetingfantasy.com/ YMMV. ;-)
# [14:46] <paul_irish> very cool
# [14:47] <andrewjbaker_> paul_irish: Thank you. Just gotta' keep motivated and keep pluggin' away at it. :-D
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# [14:48] <paul_irish> lol http://twitter.com/aeonsleuth/statuses/27360232384503808
# [14:48] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/g40e9z @aeonsleuth: FUCK SOMEONE BEAT ME IN THE RACE TO ADD THE HTML5 LOGO TO WIKIPEDIA.
# [14:48] <ben_c> haha
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# [14:51] <Neiluj> andrewjbaker_: put this http://pastie.org/1473424
# [14:51] <Neiluj> keep motivated ;)
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# [14:52] <andrewjbaker_> Neiluj: Gee... thanks dude. I'll add your code in this evening.
# [14:52] <Neiluj> yw ;) it lives
# [14:53] <ben_c> Neiluj: good work, I was trying the arrow keys in andrewjbaker_ 's demo to no avail!
# [14:53] <Neiluj> hehe, that's the first thing anybody want to try ;)
# [14:53] <andrewjbaker_> There's a little trigonometry required to get moving forward and backward sorted, but I'll add it in as a priority. ;-)
# [14:54] <andrewjbaker_> Thanks for checking all, BTW.
# [14:55] <andrewjbaker_> Out of curiosity, did you try the arrow keys or WASD?
# [14:56] <paul_irish> i tried arrow keys
# [14:57] <jo-erlend> would anyone recommend me a book about CSS3?
# [14:57] <andrewjbaker_> paul_irish: Thx. I guess most people probably would.
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# [14:57] <paul_irish> ?g hard boiled web design @ jo-erlend
# [14:57] <bot-t> jo-erlend, Hardboiled Web Design by Andy Clarke - http://hardboiledwebdesign.com/
# [14:59] <jo-erlend> thanks.
# [15:02] <Neiluj> http://www.w3.org/QA/2011/01/an_html5_logo.html "hand-drawn star has five points and there's definitely a depth meaning in stars as they relate to the power and potential of HTML5"
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# [15:03] <Neiluj> it remember me something but dunno what :)
# [15:04] <paul_irish> *it reminds me of something
# [15:04] <paul_irish> ')
# [15:04] <alrra> ?time san francisco
# [15:04] <bot-t> alrra, San Francisco, CA - Time: 6:01am Tuesday (PST), Weather: Fog, 10�C / 50�F
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# [15:16] <Pewpewarrows> ok, my google-fu is really failing this morning, can someone point me to docs for opera's css linear gradient?
# [15:16] <paul_irish> idontthinktheysupportgradients.
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# [15:21] <felcom> so I just saw the html5 logo
# [15:21] <felcom> fizzed my pants
# [15:21] <ben_c> quote of the day
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# [15:22] <mikesusz> looks like a hood ornament from a big rig
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# [15:22] <mikesusz> not a complaint
# [15:22] <mikesusz> :)
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# [15:22] <mikesusz> it's kinda autobot-ey
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# [15:23] <ben_c> it's quite a ridiculous logo, at first I thought it was a joke
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# [15:23] <ben_c> I like it nonetheless
# [15:23] <mikesusz> it's something i can put on my website and it will look pretty and make people think i'm cool
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# [15:23] <felcom> I love it
# [15:23] * danielfilho_ is now known as danielfilho
# [15:23] <mikesusz> like the flash logo (circa 1998)
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# [15:27] <mikesusz> also glad they host the art downloads on their site with a bandwidth quota
# [15:28] <paul_irish> http://yfrog.com/h57asqij heh
# [15:28] <felcom> "It stands strong and true, resilient and universal as the markup you write. It shines as bright and as bold as the forward-thinking, dedicated web developers you are. It's the standard's standard, a pennant for progress. And it certainly doesn't use tables for layout."
# [15:28] <felcom> love iiiit
# [15:28] <mikesusz> paul_irish :)
# [15:29] <paul_irish> mikesusz: where are you seeing links to the offsite art downloads
# [15:29] <mikesusz> http://blue-harvest.appspot.com/html/logo/downloads/HTML5_Logo.svg
# [15:30] <paul_irish> but where did you see a link to that
# [15:30] <mikesusz> i still have http://blue-harvest.appspot.com/html/logo/ open
# [15:30] <paul_irish> o
# [15:30] <paul_irish> lucky guy
# [15:30] <mikesusz> east coast US ftw
# [15:30] <mikesusz> everyone else gets the 503
# [15:36] <ben_c> lolopera extension - "An extension that adds the new HTML5 logo to the top of any page with the #html5 doctype" http://twitter.com/#!/brucel/status/27371549929508864
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# [15:36] <mikesusz> paul_irish - can you talk to the guys at app engine? ;)
# [15:36] <paul_irish> already did my part there.
# [15:36] <paul_irish> just waiting for other people
# [15:36] <mikesusz> they may not wake up on east coast time... are you crazy? :P
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# [15:36] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fwYbrB @brucel: An extension that adds the new HTML5 logo to the top of any page with the #html5 doctype http://bit.ly/hyMNoe from @ourmaninjapan
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# [15:38] <mikesusz> aha, mirrored official. http://www.w3.org/html/logo/
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# [15:40] <ben_c> all of 'the gallery' links are just #
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# [15:41] <seutje> inorite, and no behaviors or anything
# [15:42] <mikesusz> the future will not be QA'd
# [15:42] <seutje> I was opening some in new tabs and then got all confuzzled :(
# [15:43] <mikesusz> now back to your regularly scheduled $AAPL stock freak-out
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# [15:44] <felcom> its a good thing i'm poor and can't afford AAPL otherwise I'd be poor
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# [15:47] <miketaylr> well that was fast, https://addons.opera.com/addons/extensions/details/html5-powered/
# [15:47] <miketaylr> cc paul_irish
# [15:47] <felcom> insider development imo
# [15:48] <miketaylr> ITS AN INSIDE JOB
# [15:48] <mikesusz> quick, someone update chrome sniffer
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# [15:48] <felcom> Our ops guy DEMANDS XXL for html5 shirt
# [15:50] <felcom> there needs to be html5 snuggie™ as well, lets get on that guys
# [15:51] <mikesusz> CC licensed, make HTML5 underpants
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# [15:52] <felcom> my underpants feature device access
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# [15:57] <mikesusz> felcom - and ... offline storage? eewww.
# [15:57] <felcom> hah
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# [16:31] <ACTRAiSER> why does w3c not get a designer to build a logo ...
# [16:32] <Neiluj> ?
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# [16:34] <andrewjbaker_> I know it's subjective, but I find the the HTML5 shield quite apt for my medieval game plans.^^
# [16:34] <paulrouget> I like it.
# [16:34] <paulrouget> a lot :)
# [16:36] <ACTRAiSER> okay i didnt know the logo had fans, sorry. :-) well the first time I saw it i was under the impression some engineer who likes playing WoW or Zelda put something together in photoshop
# [16:36] <mikesusz> ACTRAiSER - engineers don't know how to do vector artwork :)
# [16:36] <ACTRAiSER> exactly :)
# [16:37] <Neiluj> I like it too
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# [16:37] <ACTRAiSER> anyways, one will get used to it ... :)
# [16:37] <Neiluj> I especially like the technologies logo
# [16:37] <andrewjbaker_> The technology classes icons mean little to me at the moment. I'm sure they'll become more familiar tho'.
# [16:38] <andrewjbaker_> Just like the RSS logo did.
# [16:39] <Copy112_> And whats the point of having a logo, to tell the visitors we are using modern technologies or?
# [16:39] <Michael> Act Raiser.. that was a fun game
# [16:39] <Neiluj> Copy112_: have a face to put the name on
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# [16:40] <paulrouget> An identity. We need an identity for HTML5 technologies. Like a brand. Also, we need a definition.
# [16:40] <andrewjbaker_> paulrouget: True.
# [16:40] <Copy112_> reminds me a bit of the valid html, css links
# [16:41] <ACTRAiSER> Michael: it was brillant .
# [16:41] <Michael> :D
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# [16:42] * andrewjbaker_ imagines that there are a large number of hardcopy and digital publishers reworking the cover design for their HTML5 books all of a sudden. ;-)
# [16:43] <Neiluj> paul_irish: the html logo on Modernizr & Boilerplate looks black on Safari, is that bad svg support ?
# [16:46] <Neiluj> wants "Edit the Page" without Opera 11 ? $('*').attr('contenteditable', true); :D
# [16:48] <Michael> http://m.engadget.com/default/article.do?artUrl=http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/17/disney-to-sell-android-phone-in-japan-apparently-apple-doesnt/&category=classic&icid=eng_latest_art
# [16:48] <Michael> Interesting
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# [17:01] <jo-erlend> is <article> anything more than a specialized <section>?
# [17:02] <mikesusz> i see <section> relating to the page, while <article> is a unique piece of content
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# [17:03] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: <article> and <section> are specialized <div>s ;)
# [17:03] <jo-erlend> hmm. That doesn't smell right.
# [17:03] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, yes, <div> -> <section> -> <article>?
# [17:03] <Neiluj> mmh not sure of the relation between section and article
# [17:04] <Neiluj> looking at the specs...
# [17:04] <jo-erlend> I'm reading up on microdata stuff. It seems to be very useful. I wouldn't feel comfortable marking up a persons contact information as an "article".
# [17:04] <jo-erlend> as a section, sure.
# [17:04] <Neiluj> A general rule is that the section element is appropriate only if the element's contents would be listed explicitly in the document's outline.
# [17:05] <Neiluj> my english is limited...
# [17:05] <Neiluj> I saw <sections> inside <article>
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# [17:06] <danielfilho> remysharp: amazing the transformers-html5-logo thing! hahaha
# [17:07] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, that might make sense in some cases. Let's say you have an online store, for instance. You might want to call your products "articles". You would have different data about those products and you'd then group them by using sections, semantisized by microdata.
# [17:08] <Neiluj> exactly
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# [17:09] <jo-erlend> but that seems to say an article is a form of section.
# [17:09] <remysharp> danielfilho: not mine - just retweeting it :)
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# [17:11] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: I challenge anyone to produce a good definition of <section> that everybody can understand...
# [17:11] <danielfilho> it doesn't make it less amazing! haha :D just commenting, anyway :)
# [17:11] <Neiluj> it's like <adress> it can be very confusing...
# [17:11] <Neiluj> <address> *
# [17:11] <jo-erlend> huh? There is no <address> element?
# [17:11] <Neiluj> yes there is
# [17:11] <jo-erlend> uh.. Since when? I've never seen that, have I? :)
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# [17:12] <Neiluj> there's also <time>
# [17:12] <Neiluj> <details> and <summary>
# [17:13] <jo-erlend> really? diveintohtml5.org hasn't mentioned those.. I think.
# [17:13] <Neiluj> hehe it's not the reference ;)
# [17:13] <Neiluj> http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/
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# [17:14] <nimbupani> html5 logo is out huh :)
# [17:14] <Neiluj> yeah nimbupani, like it ?
# [17:14] <nimbupani> have you got your t-shirts yet? Some people in a mailing list I follow are going crazy over the t-shirts :)
# [17:14] <nimbupani> yes its very charming.
# [17:15] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, that page seems to immediately confirm my assumptions; an article is a specialized form of section. At least, that's how I'm going to visualize it in my own mind. :)
# [17:15] <Neiluj> T-shirt are too expensive, especially when you're out of US like me...
# [17:16] <nimbupani> jo-erlend: i have always thought of articles to be used when you have repeating content
# [17:16] <nimbupani> within a section
# [17:16] <nimbupani> e.g. set of blog pots
# [17:16] <nimbupani> POTS
# [17:16] <nimbupani> posts
# [17:17] <Neiluj> nimbupani: yep but you can also have an article divided into many sections...
# [17:17] <nimbupani> yeah def
# [17:17] <nimbupani> sections are for making sure you have the right outlines set
# [17:17] <jo-erlend> nimbupani, that's also an interesting way to look at it.
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# [17:19] <jo-erlend> it doesn't really fit my language though.
# [17:20] <nimbupani> explain jo-erlend
# [17:22] <jo-erlend> nimbupani, well. Let's say you have two bookshelves, each filled with books. In your language, you'd have to call the bookshelf an "article", because there were more than one. I would be more likely to call both the bookshelves and each shelf in the bookshelf a "section", even though there are many of them, and they all do the same job. Then, I'd call each book an article.
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# [17:24] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, I don't think I would separate an article into sections...? Why would you need to, when you have p's?
# [17:24] <jo-erlend> oh. Nevermind. Yes, of course you could.
# [17:25] <jo-erlend> heh, I made up an example of that only a little while ago :>
# [17:25] <Neiluj> hehe
# [17:26] <jo-erlend> continuing the book thought, I'd probably call each chapter a section of the article (book).
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# [17:27] <nimbupani> but its not "my language" jo-erlend
# [17:27] <jo-erlend> the question is: are there any technical differences between div, section and article?
# [17:27] <nimbupani> its just html markup
# [17:27] <nimbupani> div is what you use to style without semantic implications
# [17:27] <nimbupani> section/articles are used for semantic implications.
# [17:28] <jo-erlend> the way you use words define your language, even if the words themselves doesn't belong to you. :)
# [17:29] <nimbupani> but i am sure these are pretty much translatable to any other language
# [17:29] <jo-erlend> but if you disregard the semantics for a little while... Can you use divs, sections and articles as you see fit, or are there differences in their capabilities?
# [17:30] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: no, they're the same
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# [17:30] <Neiluj> they share the same attributes and css properties, at least, it should...
# [17:31] <jo-erlend> in that case, I choose to see them as specialized versions. div > section > article.
# [17:31] <nimbupani> but there is no point using section or article if you disregard semantics
# [17:31] <Neiluj> hahaha ! :D
# [17:32] <nimbupani> there really is no difference between a p, i, em, div if you disregard semantics
# [17:32] <mduncan> hmmm, why is new html5 logo not done in canvas? seems like a self-promotion fail of sorts
# [17:32] <nimbupani> why would anyone use canvas?
# [17:32] <jo-erlend> right. That was why I needed to know if I could use the semantics as I pleased, or if some technical detail would bite my ass if I did. :)
# [17:32] <Neiluj> nimbupani: a doesn't look the same than p or div
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# [17:32] <nimbupani> i meant difference between a "p element"
# [17:33] <Neiluj> I disagree, when I said div, article, section are same, I meant they're all blocks
# [17:33] <nimbupani> not a as anchor.
# [17:33] <jo-erlend> a means it's src attribute while p means its cdata, in context of microdata... I think?
# [17:33] <Neiluj> but a are inlines, i will be italic by default, etc...
# [17:33] <Neiluj> not the same attributes
# [17:33] <Neiluj> not the same style
# [17:34] <Neiluj> when div, section, article look exactly the same
# [17:34] <nimbupani> they are flow or block content because of their semantics
# [17:34] <nimbupani> not inspite of them
# [17:35] <jo-erlend> hmm?
# [17:35] <nimbupani> browsers have agreed to render them as inline elements coz the standards say so.
# [17:35] <jo-erlend> explain.
# [17:35] <nimbupani> you could create a new browser that would render an anchor as a block level element
# [17:35] <jo-erlend> oh. I really don't care about presentation in regard to html. I want to use html for markup only.
# [17:36] <Neiluj> ok forget the style, think about attributes
# [17:36] <nimbupani> so if you want to use for markup you need to know which to use when.
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# [17:36] <nimbupani> and thats where the meaning of elements come in so you know which to use appropriately
# [17:36] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: finally, I think you're right, articles are specialized sections
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# [17:37] <jo-erlend> nimbupani, right. Which is why I needed to know if the only technical difference between div, section and article were the names of the elements, or if there were differences in technical capabilities. That's what I meant when I said "disregard semantics".
# [17:37] <nimbupani> the technical capabilities are forthcoming
# [17:37] <nimbupani> you dont see it now doesnt mean you have to "disregard semantics"
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# [17:38] <jo-erlend> nimbupani, ai...
# [17:38] <jo-erlend> nevermind.
# [17:39] <jo-erlend> Neiluj, it seems logical to me. Might not be correct, but if there's no technical difference, then I think it's nice to use them, simply to enrich your markup language.
# [17:39] <nimbupani> thats what I suspected most people would say.
# [17:39] <Neiluj> jo-erlend: actually, I think that's the only reason why they exist
# [17:40] <nimbupani> coz now instead of div-its
# [17:40] <nimbupani> we will have section-itis
# [17:40] <Neiluj> too much divs kill divs
# [17:41] <mikesusz> section has meaning, div has structure only. section was designed to stop the necessity of adding meaning to divs using IDs and classes
# [17:42] <jo-erlend> well... There might be another reason too, maybe. A section and an article can have different microdata scopes, can't they? Might want to have an <address> for your department, which is a section of your business, which has an <address>. And then you might want to have a ul in each department, which is a list of employees, which themselves are <articles> with their own <address>?
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# [17:43] <jo-erlend> perhaps I'm confused. :)
# [17:43] <nimbupani> you are thinking way more deeply than it is necessary
# [17:43] <jo-erlend> yes, I always do that. I hate knowing. I need to understand. Otherwise, I never get comfortable.
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# [17:46] <jo-erlend> but this has been a lo-oong day. I'm out for a beer and some 8ball. :)
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# [17:48] <daleharvey> html5 logo has been a pretty well done sucess, congrats if anyone here was involved
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# [18:21] <shichuan> don't understand why html5 needs a logo
# [18:21] <DjEther> The same reason anything needs a logo
# [18:21] <shichuan> i mean if it's generally for html, i can understand
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# [18:21] <shichuan> but why for html5?
# [18:22] <shichuan> it's like we only have one mac or windows logo
# [18:22] <Michael> HTML5 is a spec as well as a broad stream of technologies
# [18:22] <shichuan> we dont have a logo for a particular version
# [18:22] <Michael> CSS2 was not considered XHTML
# [18:22] <Michael> But CSS3 is considered part of HTML5
# [18:23] <Michael> Anyway.. kind of a silly argument imho.
# [18:24] <felcom> HTML5 needs a logo for the same reason Adobe Flash Player does
# [18:24] <felcom> or reasons rather
# [18:24] <Michael> Just seemed like a troll kind of question.
# [18:24] <danbeam> Michael: I've never quite understood why CSS3 is part of HTML5, care to shed light?
# [18:24] <Michael> Yes. There is HTML5 the spec and HTML5 the philosophy
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# [18:25] <Michael> The philosophy is a context similar to web 2.0
# [18:25] <Michael> That wasn't a spec, but incorporated many technologies
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# [18:27] <felcom> I think the branding will cause some confusion amongst the non-technical crowd, but ultimately it'll serve to bring more attention/adoption to the new technologies
# [18:27] <Michael> People already know the term. Just like web 2.0.. they'll ask their web devs "Can you make this email HTML5 pls"
# [18:27] <nimbupani> shichuan: its for making it more popular
# [18:28] <nimbupani> it works
# [18:28] <nimbupani> but you and I dont have to use it :)
# [18:28] <felcom> "I'm going for a more HTML5 look, can you do that?"
# [18:29] <Michael> lol
# [18:29] <Michael> yeah like that
# [18:29] <Michael> "It needs to pop more! More pop!"
# [18:29] <daleharvey> I also think its great that the version is getting less important in html
# [18:29] <nimbupani> :|
# [18:29] <daleharvey> it was always an unrealistic goal
# [18:29] <nimbupani> not in the logo :|
# [18:29] <Michael> daleharvey, that's contrary to everything we're saying
# [18:30] * Michael stops feeding the troll
# [18:30] <shichuan> haha, i am fine with/without a name. just ppl i know always argue when i mention 'html5'
# [18:30] <daleharvey> I dont think so, if html5 means "shiney new stuff" as opposed to the html5 specification then the version / specification means less
# [18:30] <felcom> I always just say "modern web"
# [18:31] <Michael> daleharvey, There is HTML5 and HTML 5
# [18:31] <Michael> (space)
# [18:31] <Michael> Which is sily.
# [18:31] <Michael> silly
# [18:31] <felcom> We should just call it Web HD lol
# [18:31] <digitalfiz> yes!
# [18:31] <digitalfiz> i like that
# [18:31] <digitalfiz> we should start a petition
# [18:32] <Michael> HTML5 is a spec, HTML 5 is a vocabulary of apis
# [18:32] <digitalfiz> "Change html 5 to WebHD"
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# [18:32] <Michael> felcom, haha
# [18:32] <Michael> It's funny how everything is HD now
# [18:32] <Michael> even cars
# [18:32] <felcom> lol yeah
# [18:32] <Michael> Oooo HD - that must be worth 20,000 more
# [18:32] <felcom> and sunglasses
# [18:32] <Michael> Web 3.0 HD Echo-friendly
# [18:32] <Michael> eco
# [18:33] <Michael> Green Web 3.0 HD
# [18:33] <Michael> There we go
# [18:33] <digitalfiz> Web 3.0 HD - Go Green
# [18:33] <felcom> Xtreme +
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# [18:33] <digitalfiz> the log of course needs a leaf
# [18:33] <digitalfiz> logo
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# [18:34] <digitalfiz> i used to hate when a client would tell me "it needs to be more web 2.0"
# [18:34] <Michael> lol
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# [18:34] <digitalfiz> soon it will be "it needs more html5"
# [18:34] <Michael> "Do you have any idea what you're talking about?"
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# [18:34] <felcom> dude I STILL have people throwing that term around
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# [18:35] <felcom> then I inform them that Web 2.0 happened years and years ago
# [18:35] <digitalfiz> felcom, ive trained most of them they got tired of hearing my rant/explanation of web 2.0
# [18:35] <Michael> I interpret that as "more pastel, less borders, more rounded corners and bi-colored buttons floating around'
# [18:36] <felcom> and reflections, don't forget reflections
# [18:36] <Michael> yep!
# [18:36] <digitalfiz> and version badges
# [18:38] <shichuan> with more and more developers pushing for a modern web, i think browser engines, w3c, and browser vendors should have more responsibilities
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# [18:40] <felcom> I think the measure of a browser's success nowadays is the adoption of new technology. If that isn't the case, I think it's surely headed that way
# [18:40] <thatryan> http://isalogo.partofhtml5.com/? lol alex is great
# [18:41] <shichuan> felcom: isn't it a problem? i mean the best they can do is to 'follow up'?
# [18:41] <shichuan> can't they just sit down and be more pro-active?
# [18:42] <felcom> well i'd say most of them are
# [18:42] <felcom> there are a lot of factors to consider, most of which I'm sure, I'm not even aware of
# [18:43] <digitalfiz> http://isyourmom.partofhtml5.com/
# [18:43] <shichuan> but they are too individual, they should work more closely on fundamental things
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# [18:45] <beevi7> http://yfrog.com/h012382965p
# [18:45] <felcom> They should, as long as the fundamental things are in the best interest of the usable Web and not pandering to a company's specific goals
# [18:47] <felcom> It's the same reason there is no Utopia...everyone has their own vision and their own set of goals
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# [18:47] <shichuan> with more smartphone, web tv and tablets coming out, the definition of html5 become more and more blur
# [18:48] <digitalfiz> or more and more robust
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# [18:48] <digitalfiz> or bloated whichever you choose for a point of view
# [18:50] <shichuan> with the help of open source and developers, we can sure make things better, but overall, there will be bigger trade offs in the future
# [18:51] <shichuan> unless other stakesolders can also join us
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# [19:11] <shichuan> AWAY
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# [19:34] <drim_> hello all. I have a problem using localStorage. When I am doing localStorage.setItem("test", "test"); after refreshing the page, localStorage.length display 0 :/
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# [19:48] <paulrouget> drim_: works for me
# [19:49] <paulrouget> drim_: which browser?
# [19:50] <paulrouget> drim_: works for me with Firefox & Chrome.
# [19:50] <nimbupani> mikew3c: do you know if there is some sort of repo for html5 logo stuff :)
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# [19:51] <mikew3c> nimbupani: dunno
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# [19:52] <nimbupani> ok.
# [19:52] <JKarsrud> something about the process here at least: http://ocupop.com/html5
# [19:53] <drim_> paulrouget: works with chrome but not firefox for me :/
# [19:53] <drim_> it display 1 ?
# [19:58] <jamund> Anyone thought of a not very universal, but certainly very helpful input type=state that pulls up either a map or a pre-populated list of states
# [19:58] <jamund> :)
# [19:59] <nimbupani> it would be helpful only in US
# [19:59] <nimbupani> or countries that have such divisions
# [19:59] <nimbupani> its not universal.
# [20:00] <jamund> yeah
# [20:00] <jamund> :-/
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# [20:00] <Michael> jamund, I think that's a good candidate for a jQuery plugin
# [20:01] <jamund> Not a bad idea.
# [20:01] <paulrouget> drim_: which version of Firefox?
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# [20:02] <drim_> 3.6.13 (mac)
# [20:02] <paulrouget> drim_: can you try with firefox.com/beta and tell me if you still have the problem
# [20:02] <drim_> it's the last version :o
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# [20:05] <Neiluj> paulrouget: I'm re-asking so sorry if you already gave an answer, did you put your ParisWeb demo somewhere ?
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# [20:06] <paulrouget> Neiluj: which demo? There's a lot of demos in there :)
# [20:06] <Neiluj> hehe the shared one, the slides with websockets
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# [20:07] <Neiluj> the dangerous one, with remote eval() :D
# [20:07] <paulrouget> Neiluj: oh. It's based on this: http://paulrouget.com/dzslides
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# [20:08] <paulrouget> Neiluj: just with a ws.onmessage(function(e){eval(e.data)});
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# [20:08] <Neiluj> paulrouget: Thx ;) I'll have a look
# [20:08] <drim_> paulrouget: seems to come from i am running the page in local http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1492942/is-localstorage-in-firefox-only-working-when-the-page-is-online
# [20:09] <paulrouget> drim_: oh
# [20:10] <drim_> yes :o
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# [20:10] <paulrouget> drim_: about:config security.fileuri.strict_origin_policy → false
# [20:11] <paulrouget> drim_: we're kind of paranoïd with file://
# [20:11] <drim_> same pb :/
# [20:12] <Neiluj> paulrouget: this is not what I thought, it looked like you had websockets and File API and audio API (FF only included) in the same one
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# [20:12] <Neiluj> the one you're using here http://paulrouget.com/e/paulatparisweb
# [20:13] <Neiluj> was it not in only one page ?
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# [20:15] <Neiluj> paulrouget: "Webkit fires hashchange when it shouldn't" <- I'm really curious about this, I'm often using it...
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# [20:17] <paulrouget> Neiluj: iirc, it fires haschange the first time the page is loaded
# [20:17] <Neiluj> ^^ actually, I remember now... I did window.location.hash !== lastHash :D
# [20:17] <Neiluj> really strange bug
# [20:18] <paulrouget> Neiluj: I don't have the "full webpage" with all the demos for different reason (ugly code, code only working with a patched Firefox, ...)
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# [20:18] <paulrouget> Neiluj: but most of the demos can be found on hacks.mozilla.org
# [20:18] <Neiluj> paulrouget: I knew you were cheating !
# [20:18] <Neiluj> ;)
# [20:18] <Neiluj> ok, thx for the links
# [20:19] <paulrouget> Neiluj: it was Flash.
# [20:19] <paulrouget> ^^
# [20:19] <Neiluj> hehehe
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# [20:21] <Neiluj> you were almost cheating on the webgl demo loading time :p
# [20:22] <Neiluj> damn it's pretty fluid on my mac... impressed
# [20:22] <paulrouget> OpenGL
# [20:23] <Neiluj> yeah like you said, good implementation of the engine by the OS, and good use of OS API by the browser
# [20:23] <paulrouget> yeah
# [20:28] <Moo-_-> webgl, where?
# [20:28] <Neiluj> Moo-_-: http://videos.mozilla.org/serv/mozhacks/flight-of-the-navigator/
# [20:28] <Moo-_-> Neiluj: that's just pitiful
# [20:28] <Moo-_-> I mean
# [20:28] <Moo-_-> in year 2001
# [20:29] <Moo-_-> we had better graphics by software rasterizer
# [20:29] <Moo-_-> if you put flight of the navigator to that perspective
# [20:29] <Moo-_-> it is not accomplishment
# [20:29] <Moo-_-> it is nice that browser finally does 3d
# [20:29] <Moo-_-> but we had that 10 years ago
# [20:29] <Moo-_-> which means
# [20:29] <Moo-_-> technical progress has been a failure
# [20:30] <Moo-_-> flash games can't do full screen
# [20:30] <Moo-_-> my 8-bit nintendo can do full screen
# [20:30] <Moo-_-> think about that
# [20:30] <noxxten> yeah we had it ten years ago, in a dedicated program that likely used a vast majority of available ram and cpu clock cycles...
# [20:30] <Neiluj> Moo-_-: good try ;)
# [20:30] <alcuadrado> IMO webgl is not suitable for that kind of stuff yet , it's more for things like that red hood game
# [20:30] <Moo-_-> noxxten: what's your CPU usage when you run flight of the navigator
# [20:30] <Moo-_-> :)
# [20:31] <Moo-_-> and FPS
# [20:31] <paulrouget> Moo-_-: these are stuff we are working on
# [20:31] <Moo-_-> I know
# [20:31] <paulrouget> Moo-_-: and here, it's "over the web"
# [20:31] <Moo-_-> but it is too early to call it impressive
# [20:31] <Moo-_-> more like progress
# [20:31] <Moo-_-> finally, progress, after all of those IE years
# [20:31] <paulrouget> Moo-_-: It's a fucking impressive progress
# [20:32] <noxxten> it's impressive progress for me at least. but still, if these technologies want to compete or take over for flash, they'll need to be equal or greater than flash in its capabilities also.
# [20:32] <Neiluj> Moo-_-: my CPU usage doesn't go over 40%, because GPU is doing the shit
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# [20:32] <paulrouget> Neiluj: well, there's still some JS to animate the scene
# [20:32] <paulrouget> even if it's tracing
# [20:33] <Moo-_-> noxxten: well my flash hasn't never do full screen
# [20:33] <Moo-_-> at least webgl can do it
# [20:33] <Moo-_-> without making my computer crawl
# [20:33] <Moo-_-> maybe now we can have good web based games
# [20:33] <Moo-_-> something more than those post stamp sized stick animations
# [20:33] <Neiluj> paulrouget: I got a powerful Mac too...
# [20:34] <dgathright> I'm going to side with paul on this one. Yeah, sure we could do it over a decade ago, but that required downloading, installing, executing, etc... Now, we can do all that instantly on a ubiquitous distribution platform, a web browser. That's pretty badass.
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# [20:34] <noxxten> it might be a good idea to get video done before moving on to full fledged games though lols.
# [20:35] <Moo-_-> noxxten: I think video is relatively easy compared to 3d graphics
# [20:35] <Moo-_-> so the challenge is much greater there
# [20:35] <noxxten> not with browsers constantly dropping and changing support D:
# [20:35] <Moo-_-> noxxten: video format is not problem
# [20:35] <paulrouget> Moo-_-: oh no :)
# [20:36] <Moo-_-> the media provider can always encode in several formats
# [20:36] <Moo-_-> we do it for mobile already, 3gp and mp4
# [20:36] <paulrouget> Moo-_-: WebGL is bringing an API to JS, it's a kind of glue
# [20:36] <Moo-_-> doing h264 (mp4) and vp8/ogg is not aproblem
# [20:36] <noxxten> true
# [20:36] <Moo-_-> paulrouget: I'll be impressed when JS ships with standard library which has decent array and string functions :)
# [20:37] <Moo-_-> I need that API more badly :)
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# [20:38] <paulrouget> Moo-_-: Moo-_- like https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript_typed_arrays ?
# [20:38] <paulrouget> Moo-_-: oh, like Python has?
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# [20:39] <paulrouget> Moo-_-: being impressed by a decent string libraries but not by a OpenGL ES binding... interesting :)
# [20:39] <Moo-_-> paulrouget: heck
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# [20:39] <Moo-_-> my feature phone has opengl es bindings in java me :)
# [20:40] <paulrouget> Moo-_-: something you forget: here it's in a web page
# [20:40] <paulrouget> Moo-_-: nothing can impress you then, because everything you can do in a web page, you're supposed to be able to do it natively
# [20:40] <Moo-_-> paulrouget: yes. I keep constantly working it is a page on this era of web apps ;)
# [20:41] <Moo-_-> paulrouget: but to be honest, I see much more potential in webgl than java me and flash combined
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# [20:41] <Moo-_-> not to mention iOS or whatever shit is running in phones nowadays
# [20:45] <ben_c> ooo check this - http://files.youngskilled.com/html5/
# [20:46] <Neiluj> ben_c: nice :) so sad I didn't have the time today to try...
# [20:47] <ben_c> likewise! We'll have to wait for HTML6
# [20:47] <ben_c> now 5 has a logo it's not new anymore
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# [20:50] <Moo-_-> hi-5
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# [21:02] <cgcardona> thoughts? http://www.w3.org/html/logo/
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# [21:03] <mikesusz> cgcardona - we covered that this morning. oh, you were probably asleep (~6am PDT) :P
# [21:03] <cgcardona> i'm in hawaii have some compassion :P
# [21:03] <mikesusz> ah even farther
# [21:03] <cgcardona> so give me the quick rundown?
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# [21:04] <mikesusz> general concensus is it's cool. underlying worry that it will lead to more marketing co-opting html5 douchiness
# [21:04] <cgcardona> ahhh yes
# [21:04] <mikesusz> there has been an autobot logo mashup, which kills me
# [21:04] <cgcardona> how about the actual design of the logo - any thoughts on that?
# [21:04] <cgcardona> autobot logo mashup?
# [21:06] <cgcardona> my first thoughts were http://www.adobetutorialz.com/content_images/AdobePhotoshop/ART-D/tutorial438/18.jpg
# [21:06] <jamund> cgcardona: love the logo
# [21:06] <mikesusz> http://yfrog.com/h57asqij
# [21:06] <cgcardona> holy crap
# [21:06] <mikesusz> aha, there's a decepticon too. excellent.
# [21:06] <cgcardona> so i am clearly not the only one
# [21:07] <cgcardona> haha
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# [21:07] <mikesusz> great minds :)
# [21:07] <tw2113> what about my two heads?
# [21:07] <tw2113> jk folks
# [21:08] <mikesusz> zaphod?
# [21:08] <tw2113> ford?
# [21:08] <mikesusz> i think i'm a sofa.
# [21:08] <tw2113> that'd be a first
# [21:08] <tw2113> you thinking
# [21:08] <tw2113> haha jk again
# [21:08] <tw2113> don't hurt me, i'm a fragile falling whale
# [21:09] <mikesusz> (note to observers: every conversation on IRC eventually reverts to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.)
# [21:09] <antonkovalyov> i like the new logo
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# [21:11] <antonkovalyov> anybody has any idea what connectiviy icon is supposed to represent?
# [21:11] <paul_irish> CONNECTIONS
# [21:12] <paul_irish> it looks like an ethernet endpoint to me
# [21:12] <paulrouget> Is it bad to have an empty <a href></a> with a title?
# [21:13] <mikesusz> connectivity looks like you're fist-bumping a robot
# [21:14] <cgcardona> and HTML5 semantics?
# [21:14] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [21:14] <cgcardona> a halo rank?
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# [21:22] <Neiluj> paulrouget: semantically, I would say yes
# [21:22] <Neiluj> text-indent: -9999px rulez ;)
# [21:23] <Neiluj> cgcardona: the semantic one reminds me the turbo in wipe out
# [21:24] * tw2113 is working on some basic html/css templates for someone in the UK today
# [21:24] <cgcardona> that would be a first - you working
# [21:25] <tw2113> i know
# [21:25] <tw2113> wtf is wrong with me?
# [21:25] <cgcardona> you're a fagile falling whale is what I heard
# [21:25] <cgcardona> *fragile
# [21:25] <cgcardona> oh my...
# [21:25] <tw2113> true
# [21:25] <cgcardona> :-/
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# [21:29] <paul_irish> nimbupani: https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/issues/issue/282/
# [21:29] <antonkovalyov> http://static.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/south-park-moses.gif
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# [21:30] <antonkovalyov> html5 followers
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# [21:30] <pluma> http://www.w3.org/html/logo/ totally awesome.
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# [21:31] <nimbupani> sweet paul_irish
# [21:32] <paul_irish> nimbupani: heh. i cant believe people are trying to validate generated source.
# [21:32] <nimbupani> need to star it or smthing
# [21:32] <nimbupani> so we can refer to it.
# [21:32] <nimbupani> i know :/
# [21:32] <paul_irish> well this is somewhat separate from the common 512 charserror
# [21:32] <nimbupani> yeah I get what you mean.
# [21:32] <tw2113> :D box-shadow transitions :D
# [21:32] <nimbupani> but I wont be surprised
# [21:32] <nimbupani> how many would validate generated source.
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# [21:33] <nimbupani> i think they do view source and do smthing :/
# [21:33] <paul_irish> how does one even do that
# [21:34] <paul_irish> document.documentElement.outerHTML ?
# [21:34] <nimbupani> :|
# [21:34] <paul_irish> use that generated source FF extension and copypaste ?
# [21:34] <paul_irish> its crazy
# [21:34] <paul_irish> another thing to add to the "pedantic facts about HTML you didnt know" post.
# [21:34] <nimbupani> :D
# [21:35] <Neiluj> paul_irish: if you look at the dom inspector and copy the <html> node it gives you the source, that's another option
# [21:36] <paul_irish> aye.
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# [21:36] <nimbupani> but there are a bunch of stupid qs like this right?
# [21:36] <Neiluj> but it doesn't give you the doctype so...
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# [21:36] <nimbupani> we need to make a list and then link in github wiki
# [21:36] <nimbupani> maybe in faq?
# [21:37] <temhawk> hi
# [21:37] <nimbupani> like top 10 stupid things you might be doing with boilerplate
# [21:37] <paul_irish> haha sounds good
# [21:37] <Neiluj> hehe good one :)
# [21:37] <temhawk> I really like what I've read about HTML 5 but I have two questions I think are important
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# [21:37] <paul_irish> whats up temhawk
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# [21:39] <temhawk> hi. first is about the doctype. if it doesn't specify version, how can the browsers know when it's next version of HTML 5 (like HTML 5.1)?
# [21:41] <Neiluj> temhawk: HTML5 is regular HTML with more features, so the browser will just care about those features, the version is useless
# [21:41] <snover> temhawk: browsers already don’t really pay attention to doctype when deciding what features to support/not support. you can use html5 features in an xhtml 1.0 strict document. it won’t validate.
# [21:41] <snover> but it will work.
# [21:43] <temhawk> ok. that sounds very radical
# [21:44] <temhawk> I think it would still be good to note, just for information, a number can't hurt after all :)
# [21:44] <temhawk> but onto my second question
# [21:45] <snover> I’m sure if there is some need in the future to start versioning document types again, it could end up as <!DOCTYPE html 6> or something.
# [21:45] <snover> but i would be surprised for such a thing to happen.
# [21:45] <temhawk> ok
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# [21:46] <Neiluj> snover: I think I've read somewhere that there will be no more HTML x
# [21:46] <temhawk> I am concerned about the history API. is it limited to the same domain to protect against spying?
# [21:46] <Neiluj> yup
# [21:47] <temhawk> alright, that's good to know :)
# [21:47] <temhawk> thanks bye!
# [21:47] <Neiluj> bye
# [21:48] <paul_irish> :)
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# [21:57] <tw2113> anyone know of opera supports transitioning box-shadows? or am i just doing something wrong
# [22:02] <miketaylr> maybe?
# [22:03] <tw2113> hmm
# [22:03] <Neiluj> tw2113: it seems not
# [22:03] <Neiluj> tw2113: I tried
# [22:03] <miketaylr> code?
# [22:03] <tw2113> i'll have to settle with instant change
# [22:04] <tw2113> http://pastebin.com/tcFRem5f
# [22:04] <Neiluj> http://pastie.org/1475058
# [22:05] <miketaylr> it's not specced, so we likely don't support it
# [22:05] <miketaylr> see http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-transitions/#animatable-properties-
# [22:05] <tw2113> oh wells :D
# [22:06] <tw2113> it'll work for awhile until things get more ironed out and FF/webkit stops supporting it on box-shadow
# [22:06] <tw2113> or it gets specced
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# [22:07] <tw2113> maybe it works in IE.........BAHAHAHAHAAHAHA *spits on self*
# [22:08] * paul_irish lol'd http://twitter.com/#!/diveintomark/statuses/27394416297639937
# [22:08] <Michael> Do you guys know of a WebGL lib that allows for animating collada objects?
# [22:08] <paul_irish> socialhapy: http://twitter.com/#!/diveintomark/statuses/27394416297639937
# [22:08] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fx2R3A @diveintomark: @adactio I'm guessing you don't get invited to a lot of parties.
# [22:09] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [22:09] <tw2113> i can definitely see Jeremy's point
# [22:10] <Michael> paul_irish, Howdy
# [22:10] <Michael> I guess I can ask your buddy Ken
# [22:11] <paul_irish> Michael: there definitely are some.
# [22:11] <Michael> That's good news. Still looking
# [22:11] <paul_irish> tw2113: it's so entirely not useful to be pedantic about what is html5
# [22:11] <paul_irish> for example
# [22:11] <Michael> I can load the model in GLGE but animations don't seem to be working
# [22:12] <paul_irish> is <canvas> HTML5?
# [22:12] <Michael> Canvas is HTML 5 :D
# [22:12] <paul_irish> because technically the element itself is, but the 2D drawing context (which is the point of it) is not.
# [22:12] <paul_irish> then you have the fact that there are TWO specs called HTML5
# [22:12] <paul_irish> and they contain different features.
# [22:13] <paul_irish> and then you have the fact that bruce lawson, strong proponent of "muddying the definition of html5" wrote THE BOOK on html5 and included things that aren't in HTML5.
# [22:13] <paul_irish> soooooooo
# [22:13] <paul_irish> it's a useless discussion.
# [22:14] <paulrouget> :)
# [22:14] <tw2113> thatryan, have you tried joining #wordpress yet to test
# [22:15] <pluma> Actually we had a term for HTML4 and JavaScript. Anyone remember DHTML?
# [22:16] <Neiluj> http://iscanvas.partofhtml5.com/
# [22:18] <thatryan> tw2113: yeah it worked, thanks
# [22:18] <ghost__> are there nice tween functions like mootools or actionscript available for interacting with html5 canvas drawing?
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# [22:18] <tw2113> word
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# [22:19] <Neiluj> ghost__: I would say http://raphaeljs.com/
# [22:20] <Neiluj> ghost__: oh sorry I mis-read, you said "interacting"...
# [22:20] <paul_irish> i think me and adactio are about to have a twitter fightttttt
# [22:20] <nimbupani> umm why paul_irish
# [22:20] <nimbupani> they are ghosts of past
# [22:20] <paul_irish> "html5"
# [22:20] <nimbupani> why rekindle
# [22:21] <paul_irish> waaat http://t-gaap.com/2011/1/17/safari-and-itunes-to-merge
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# [22:21] <tw2113> itunes is a relatively decent podcast downloader, but that's all i use it for
# [22:22] <paul_irish> nimbupani: ah. debate over.
# [22:22] <Neiluj> paul_irish: that's a rumor, I think there will just be some iTunes (cloud) into Safari as there is some Safari into iTunes...
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# [22:23] <paul_irish> debate back on
# [22:23] <Neiluj> iTunes is already a "gasworks" (that's how we call it ?), safari doesn't need that
# [22:23] <nimbupani> NO
# [22:23] <nimbupani> geez
# [22:23] <nimbupani> really
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# [22:25] <pluma> wtf http://dhtml5.com/
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# [22:25] <ben_c> wow ..just wow
# [22:26] <tw2113> so many bad memories
# [22:26] <tw2113> i can really do without that cursor floating text
# [22:26] <ben_c> I like the changing page title personally
# [22:27] <tw2113> yikes
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# [22:27] <Brodingo> if there was ever a place i like to read multilingual tweets... its in the title of the page
# [22:27] <tw2113> it's like it's pulling in tweets about something
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# [22:27] <Brodingo> fucking awesome css
# [22:27] <Brodingo> .bad *:not(.XXX) { color: gray; border-color: gray; background: transparent; }
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# [22:28] <Brodingo> oh shi i said css in html5
# [22:28] <paul_irish> lol
# [22:28] <Brodingo> dont ban me PI!!!
# [22:28] <antonkovalyov> jesus, paul_irish, you already have 200 people rsvped for your talk
# [22:28] <paul_irish> miketaylr made dhtml5 :)
# [22:28] <antonkovalyov> and 26 waiting
# [22:28] <Brodingo> OH
# [22:28] <Brodingo> ha
# [22:29] <ben_c> I like this - http://dhtml5.com/s/dhtml-title-scroller.js
# [22:29] <dgathright_> lol @ dhtml5.com
# [22:29] <Michael> heheh
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# [22:29] <Michael> We have people who trash resumes that mention DHTML
# [22:29] <dgathright_> it's missing a "This draft is still under construction" with construction workers animated gif.
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# [22:30] <dgathright> and a "Best Viewed in an HTML5 browser" animated gif.
# [22:30] <Michael> heheh
# [22:30] <dgathright> basically, it's missing animated gifs all around. The world needs more animated gifs.
# [22:30] <Michael> The ol' Web 3.0 hamster
# [22:31] <tw2113> hamsterdance?
# [22:31] <ben_c> there needs to be some CSS3 versions of the 'Page-Enter' / 'Page-Leave' transitions IE kindly gave us
# [22:31] <ben_c> does IE still do them?
# [22:31] <miketaylr> lol pluma
# [22:32] <tw2113> http://www.webhamster.com/
# [22:32] <Michael> Dee da dee da dee de doh doh dee web three dot ohhhhhhh
# [22:32] <paul_irish> it's nice to have sylvain have my back. :D
# [22:32] <pluma> tw2113: Who the hell revived that?
# [22:33] <tw2113> some person on the internet
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# [22:55] <paul_irish> HTML5 LOGO DONE IN FLASH http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8rJILR_T_w
# [22:56] <Michael> no bueno.
# [22:56] <dgathright> haha. The fact that you have to view on YouTube is pretty much... point proven.
# [22:57] <Michael> because of ipads :P
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# [22:57] <tw2113> maxipads?
# [22:58] <frenzz> hello, please give advise, should i learn html5, if i don't really know any html version ? or any other version first ?
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# [23:02] <dgathright> frenzz: Just learn HTML. Don't worry much about specific versions. Most everything you see out there now is HTML4, and HTML5 just adds on some new elements. Just make sure you are learning HTML from a reputable site that isn't full of 10+ year old bad info.
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# [23:04] <Brodingo> frenzz http://htmldog.com/
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# [23:06] <paul_irish> ?g head first html
# [23:06] <bot-t> paul_irish, Head First Labs from O'Reilly Media, Inc. :: Head First HTML with ... - http://headfirstlabs.com/books/hfhtml/
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# [23:13] <frenzz> what about sitepoint books ?
# [23:13] <tw2113> i've heard good things about sitepoint
# [23:14] <jdalton> once u see, u can't unsee -> http://bit.ly/gLHbhQ
# [23:14] <tw2113> is it remy or bruce naked covered only by their book?
# [23:15] <jdalton> nope
# [23:15] <tw2113> that's not as bad as it could be
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# [23:15] <tw2113> like IE's twitter account using the logo for their avatar
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# [23:18] <paul_irish> frenzz: sitepoint books are good
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# Session Close: Wed Jan 19 00:00:00 2011

The end :)