/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-01-19 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Jan 19 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:05] * Joins: echoSMILE (~smile@unaffiliated/echosmile)
# [00:05] <echoSMILE> hello. i see put video with html5 is possible. and for audio?
# [00:06] * Quits: gliese581 (~FranOntan@81.202.113.56.dyn.user.ono.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [00:06] <jamund> <audio> ?
# [00:06] <echoSMILE> really? :o
# [00:06] <tw2113> yes on <audio>
# [00:06] <echoSMILE> i never see it.
# [00:06] <echoSMILE> damn
# [00:06] <echoSMILE> tks :P
# [00:07] <tw2113> http://diveintohtml5.org/
# [00:07] <Neiluj> :)
# [00:07] <thatryan> i bought the book html5 up and running and didnt know it was the printed version basically of that site
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# [00:08] <tw2113> i'm kind of surprised they don't have an audio section
# [00:08] <jamund> echoSMILE: http://html5doctor.com/native-audio-in-the-browser/ is a better link
# [00:08] <jamund> yeah tw2113 I think it's kind of covered in the video section
# [00:08] <tw2113> i'll agree with jamund there
# [00:08] <echoSMILE> tw2113: i use that site, and no audio about :\
# [00:09] <echoSMILE> oh ok ok
# [00:09] <echoSMILE> tks both
# [00:10] <echoSMILE> any place about browsers && html5 ?
# [00:10] <echoSMILE> some html5 website only support chrome, the new IE thing?
# [00:10] <jamund> echoSMILE: you're not making any sense
# [00:11] <tw2113> give him the beginner links
# [00:11] <jamund> ;-)
# [00:11] <echoSMILE> :D
# [00:11] <echoSMILE> im asking.
# [00:11] <echoSMILE> i dont touch too much on soup
# [00:12] <tw2113> http://caniuse.com/
# [00:13] <echoSMILE> nice one.
# [00:13] <echoSMILE> tks
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# [00:13] <jamund> also see: http://www.modernizr.com and https://github.com/Modernizr/Modernizr/wiki/HTML5-Cross-browser-Polyfills
# [00:14] <jamund> best
# [00:14] * Quits: jamund (~jamund@24-104-129.146.hfc.mediarain.com) (Quit: jamund)
# [00:15] <echoSMILE> tks
# [00:15] <thatryan> i want to make a beginner learning site
# [00:15] <tw2113> i'd settle for a page with a bunch of links to already worthy resources
# [00:16] <thatryan> codylindley made one of those already
# [00:16] <tw2113> what's the link so i can use it for other people
# [00:17] <thatryan> http://blog.codylindley.com/links
# [00:17] <thatryan> more jquery and upper dev stuff but yeah
# [00:17] <tw2113> eww they mention schools
# [00:17] <tw2113> but i like the DD belated png link
# [00:18] <Neiluj> the real beginner link is http://html5boilerplate.com/
# [00:18] <Neiluj> that's where to start
# [00:18] * Quits: alrra (592f527d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.47.82.125) (Quit: Page closed)
# [00:18] <Neiluj> modernizr + dd_belated are in
# [00:19] <paul_irish> in?
# [00:19] <nimbupani> boilerplate
# [00:19] <tw2113> better than using IE alpha filters
# [00:19] <Neiluj> inside ?
# [00:19] <paul_irish> tucked lovingly amongst many other delightful code bits.
# [00:19] <Neiluj> paul_irish: did I say something wrong ?
# [00:19] <paul_irish> no. :)
# [00:19] <Neiluj> ok
# [00:20] <tw2113> he's being a stinker
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# [00:26] <drim_> exit
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# [00:32] <antonkovalyov> hahah http://iscrockford.partofhtml5.com/
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# [00:39] <JKarsrud> hahahahahahahha
# [00:39] <JKarsrud> that was awesome antonkovalyov!!
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# [00:48] <echoSMILE> hum. my firefox support audio, he plays some .ogg file. but opera no. in that website says that opera >=10.5 support.
# [00:48] <echoSMILE> :\
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# [00:52] <antonkovalyov> i am seriously thinking about forking jslint
# [00:55] <Neiluj> http://ispaulirish.partofhtml5.com/
# [00:56] <Neiluj> http://areyou.partofhtml5.com/
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# [00:57] <nimbupani> http://isalexsexton.partofhtml5.com/
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# [01:02] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, do you use any linter for your project?
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# [01:03] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: no
# [01:03] <paul_irish> also. you should start by forking jshint
# [01:03] <paul_irish> honestly there needs to be a proper fork on jslint these days.
# [01:03] <paul_irish> crazy doug is crazy
# [01:04] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [01:04] <antonkovalyov> "crazy doug is crazy"
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# [01:06] <echoSMILE> any known problem in opera to play ogg vorbis files?
# [01:07] <echoSMILE> in my firefox all works fine.
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# [01:09] <paul_irish> neg.
# [01:09] * jochen___ is now known as jochen__
# [01:10] <paul_irish> recommend using miro video converter for encoding ogv and webm
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# [01:11] <paulrouget> oooor: ffmpeg -i $INPUT -threads 8 -f webm -vcodec libvpx -g 120 -qmax 42 -qmin 10 -rc_buf_aggressivity 0.95 -vb 2M -acodec libvorbis -aq 90 -ac 2 $OUTPUT
# [01:13] <paul_irish> ^ baller.
# [01:14] <pluma> paulrouget: why so specific?
# [01:16] <tw2113> what's wrong with minute control over what your end result would be?
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# [01:19] <paulrouget> well, this should work as well :) ffmpeg -i $INPUT -f webm -vcodec libvpx -acodec libvorbis -ac 2 $OUTPUT
# [01:20] <paulrouget> the presets are still very bad in ffmpeg
# [01:20] <paulrouget> (compared to h264)
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# [01:22] <pluma> That's WebM -> Ogg?
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# [01:22] <pluma> Any suggestion for good settings to convert H.264 to WebM?
# [01:23] <paul_irish> nimbupani: found a sucky problem with modernizr + boilerplate combo
# [01:23] <nimbupani> o wats that?
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# [01:24] <paul_irish> the iepp / html5shiv script inside modernizr.. it traverses al stylesheets looking for media=all or media=print
# [01:24] <paul_irish> but it doesnt look inside stylesheets for a @media print {} block
# [01:24] <nimbupani> OH
# [01:24] <nimbupani> :(
# [01:24] <paul_irish> so those rules get ignored
# [01:24] <nimbupani> thats sad
# [01:24] <paul_irish> i wonder if the CSSOM for that is exposed nicely in IE.
# [01:24] <nimbupani> needs to be tested.
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# [01:27] <paulrouget> pluma: what I said is "any format → webm"
# [01:28] <pluma> paulrouget: Ah. The vorbis threw me off.
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# [01:28] <paulrouget> pluma: it's also vorbis for WebM (vp8 / vorbis)
# [01:28] <pluma> Ah
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# [01:38] <daleharvey> lol http://dhtml5.com/
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# [01:42] <JonathanNeal> Love it, daleharvey
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# [02:05] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, thatryan: if you wanna disqus tshirts lemme know your sizes?
# [02:05] <antonkovalyov> we have limited amount :)
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# [02:05] <paul_irish> Med
# [02:06] <thatryan> antonkovalyov: thats super kind, have a large?
# [02:07] <antonkovalyov> ya
# [02:07] <antonkovalyov> got medium and large
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# [02:08] <Neiluj> what means "large" in US size ?
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# [02:08] <thatryan> thanks antonkovalyov
# [02:08] <Neiluj> is it enough large for a american football player for instance ? ^^
# [02:08] <thatryan> you rule
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# [02:09] <Neiluj> because I'm hesitating to get one of those html5 shirts and I dont know if I need large or X-large :s
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# [02:10] <Neiluj> I don't need a pyjama
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# [02:11] <nimbupani> i dont get a shit :(
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# [02:11] <Neiluj> nimbupani: about what?
# [02:12] <nimbupani> O SHT
# [02:12] <nimbupani> what a typo
# [02:12] <nimbupani> i meant SHIRT
# [02:12] <nimbupani> GEEZ
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# [02:12] <thatryan> ha
# [02:12] <nimbupani> ?slap self
# [02:12] * bot-t slaps self around a bit with a large trout
# [02:12] <thatryan> trout? nice touch ;)
# [02:13] <antonkovalyov> nimbupani, we have women sizes; wanna one?
# [02:13] <nimbupani> YAY
# [02:14] <nimbupani> i am usually S but if you have smaller that would be fine too :P
# [02:14] <antonkovalyov> don't think we have smaller
# [02:14] <antonkovalyov> gonna grab small for you :)
# [02:14] <nimbupani> :)
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# [02:15] <antonkovalyov> aaand done
# [02:15] <antonkovalyov> wow they are going fast here
# [02:15] <antonkovalyov> nimbupani, you're not in the bay area are you?
# [02:15] <nimbupani> sadly no :/
# [02:16] <nimbupani> if you are coming to SXSW i can grab it there :/
# [02:16] <antonkovalyov> don't think so; send your mailing address to anton@kovalyov.net, i'll mail it to you
# [02:16] <nimbupani> K COOL
# [02:16] <thatryan> antonkovalyov: did the shirts just come out or something?
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# [02:17] <nimbupani> sent antonkovalyov
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# [02:21] <antonkovalyov> thatryan, ya just got new shirts with new logo
# [02:21] <antonkovalyov> nimbupani, got it
# [02:21] <thatryan> antonkovalyov: awesome man, thank you for asking :) I am running low on tech shirts
# [02:21] <thatryan> need to replace my jquery one ;)
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# [02:23] * tw2113 is fighting the good fight for html5 on reddit
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# [02:24] <tw2113> i even had to differentiate what the boilerplate did
# [02:25] <tw2113> someone made it sound like it made IE style the elements
# [02:25] <tw2113> i pointed out that modernizr which just integrates the html5shiv does that
# [02:25] <paul_irish> link
# [02:26] <tw2113> gimme a sec to track it back down
# [02:26] <tw2113> http://www.reddit.com/r/web_design/comments/f4jmo/html5_elements_in_internet_explorer_without/
# [02:26] <Neiluj> do every browsers update "well" window.screen when moving the window from one screen to another ??
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# [02:27] <tw2113> "Have you ever noticed that IE isn't the only browser that doesn't render HTML5 elements? Firefox 3.6, which is the most current public build doesn't support most of those HTML5 tags either. Chrome? Sure. Safari? Yup. All the other browsers that matter? Nope. Although kn33ch41_ was a little harsh, he's absolutely right. It's just not ready yet. Stop forcing it!"
# [02:30] <antonkovalyov> fights on reddit are never good imho
# [02:31] <Neiluj> btw, I found a bug with FF 3 with <a> wrapping html5 block tags, it works with <div> but not <article>, even with modernizr, but IE is fine :)
# [02:31] <Neiluj> paulrouget: should I report it ?
# [02:31] <tw2113> i don't see why not
# [02:32] <Neiluj> because I'm not sure FF3 is planned to support more HTML5
# [02:32] <tw2113> then don't bother
# [02:32] <Neiluj> ;)
# [02:34] <Neiluj> on the other side, that's a real issue
# [02:34] <Neiluj> we can't use a selector like : a article h1 {...}
# [02:35] <tw2113> move the a into the article
# [02:35] <Neiluj> the dom is totally fucked up
# [02:35] <tw2113> or what i'd probably do...article h1 a {...}
# [02:35] <Neiluj> tw2113: what if I don't want to ;) it's html5 valid after all
# [02:36] <tw2113> that one makes logical sense to me, it makes just the text inside the h1 a link
# [02:36] <Neiluj> yep but I also want to have the <p> and the <details> inside the <a> :)
# [02:36] <Neiluj> that's an example
# [02:36] <tw2113> so article a ....
# [02:36] <tw2113> :D
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# [02:36] <Neiluj> now that I know this bug, I won't make a markup like this, but what about the other folks :)
# [02:37] <tw2113> let them find it too
# [02:37] <Neiluj> hahaha :D
# [02:38] <tw2113> or tweet about it
# [02:39] <Neiluj> I'm not very followed ;)
# [02:39] <tw2113> pay for retweets
# [02:39] <Neiluj> lol
# [02:39] <Neiluj> actually, I don't really give a sh*t about FF3...
# [02:40] <tw2113> i made a comment about FF4 making me a happy developer, and the person behind their account replied, and followed me
# [02:40] <tw2113> it's the dinosaur browser anyway
# [02:45] <paulrouget> Neiluj: no, fx3 won't ever use the HTML5 parser
# [02:45] <paulrouget> Neiluj: does it work if you put the code in a <body> tag?
# [02:46] <paulrouget> even <html><body></body></html> ?
# [02:46] <Neiluj> nope
# [02:47] <paulrouget> hmmm
# [02:47] <Neiluj> I thought it was about putting block level elements inside the <a> but <div> instead of <article> is fine
# [02:47] <paulrouget> if what if you don't use the html5 doctype?
# [02:48] <Neiluj> well I don't think <article> will work better but I'll try
# [02:48] <Neiluj> nope
# [02:49] <paulrouget> hmm
# [02:49] <paulrouget> weird weird weird...
# [02:49] <paulrouget> Neiluj: open the bug, cc me
# [02:49] <paulrouget> good night
# [02:49] <paulrouget> ++
# [02:49] <Neiluj> bye
# [02:50] * tw2113 has decided to avoid #wordpress for much of the rest of my night on IRC
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# [02:54] <nimbupani> antonkovalyov: @nimbuin is a better one :P
# [02:54] <antonkovalyov> hmmm
# [02:54] <antonkovalyov> why people have different twitter streams :)
# [02:55] <antonkovalyov> i can hardly keep up with one stream
# [02:55] <nimbupani> :)))
# [02:55] <antonkovalyov> and i follow like 50 people
# [02:55] <nimbupani> iunno people who follow me @nimbupani dont like me tweeting about webdev
# [02:55] <nimbupani> and webdevs dont need to know about my rants @nimbupani :)
# [02:55] <nimbupani> no harm is they do, but not necessary :P
# [02:57] <antonkovalyov> i see, oh well dunno you celebrities
# [02:57] <tw2113> i say let them mumble and groan, tweet what you want
# [02:59] <nimbupani> celebrity!
# [02:59] <nimbupani> ha ha ha
# [02:59] <nimbupani> thats paul_irish
# [03:00] <paul_irish> http://www.flickr.com/photos/paul_irish/83153959/lightbox/
# [03:00] <tw2113> ?fpi
# [03:00] <bot-t> fucking paul irish! http://i.imgur.com/gpspl.png
# [03:01] <thatryan> bot-t: why do you hate paul?
# [03:01] <bot-t> thatryan, As I see it, yes.
# [03:01] <thatryan> well duh
# [03:01] <tw2113> can i request a call for ?fmb which would mean my name, but have it spit out "who?"
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# [03:03] <paul_irish> wish granted.
# [03:03] <tw2113> :D
# [03:03] <tw2113> bbl, i need some food
# [03:10] <antonkovalyov> ?fmb
# [03:10] <bot-t> who?!?
# [03:10] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [03:10] <Neiluj> damn, there's already somebody who changed the status of the bug I reported 15mn ago
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# [03:10] <antonkovalyov> k see you later people
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# [03:11] <Neiluj> I'm not even sure the ones I reported on Webkit moved since I wrote it...
# [03:12] <paul_irish> Neiluj: link me ?
# [03:12] <Neiluj> paul_irish: which one ?
# [03:12] <paul_irish> ummm to the bugs you filed
# [03:12] <Neiluj> webkit's one? need to search, it was a long time ago :)
# [03:12] <paul_irish> did you report it?
# [03:13] <Neiluj> yup
# [03:13] <paul_irish> there is a My Bugs saved saerch at the bottom left
# [03:14] <Neiluj> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37332
# [03:14] <Neiluj> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40216
# [03:16] <Neiluj> not sure the link for the grid one is ok...
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# [03:17] <paul_irish> Neiluj: did you make that fluid960gs page?
# [03:17] <Neiluj> nope
# [03:17] <Neiluj> but I did make a test locally, same thing
# [03:18] <Neiluj> if you look on FF, 16-column grid is perfectly aligned on the right, not at all on webkit
# [03:18] <Neiluj> % seems to be rounded :)
# [03:18] <Neiluj> you see it ?
# [03:18] <paul_irish> yup
# [03:19] <paul_irish> and (4.25 + 1 + 1) * 16 == 100
# [03:19] <Neiluj> :/ yes...
# [03:19] <Neiluj> and 2011/01 - 2010/04 = 9 months
# [03:20] <paul_irish> the testcase needs to be reduced.
# [03:20] <Neiluj> which means ?
# [03:20] <Neiluj> a simpler page ?
# [03:21] <paul_irish> yup.
# [03:21] <paul_irish> as simple as it can be.
# [03:21] <Neiluj> ok
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# [03:23] <paul_irish> Neiluj: i'm seeing text alignment work inside the selected option on the <select> but not within all the <option>s
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# [03:23] <Neiluj> in chrome, interesting :)
# [03:24] <Neiluj> well, that's a start...
# [03:25] <Neiluj> I didn't test with appearance:none since that, maybe it changes something...
# [03:26] <Neiluj> somebody set my FF bug as solved "If you're running 1.9.2, you're not using the HTML5 parser."
# [03:27] <Neiluj> does it mean FF3 will stay without a minimum decent HTML5 parser ? :-/
# [03:28] <Neiluj> I mean it's worst than IE on this case :) important to notice
# [03:28] <tw2113> they're putting all their focus on FF4
# [03:28] <tw2113> 3.6 is done with development
# [03:28] <Neiluj> that's what I thought reporting was useless, paul rouget told me to do it anyway, we never know
# [03:29] <Neiluj> that's *why*
# [03:29] <tw2113> i imagine they'd maybe do an update to that branch if there comes a major bug
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# [03:30] <tw2113> my question...is it a bug or an inconvenience with advanced stuff?
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# [03:33] <Neiluj> I don't know what to say, it's a really particular case, but it's valid html5 and html5 markup should not break browsers like this, I mean the dom is really broken
# [03:34] <Neiluj> technically it's not a bug since FF3 is not meant to parser html5 as I understand what this guy replied
# [03:34] <Neiluj> it seems that FF3 is very strict since IE is very tolerant, html5 is some kind of playing with browser's tolerance...
# [03:34] <Neiluj> (sorry for my english...)
# [03:34] <tw2113> i've heard/read that html5 is not as strict
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# [03:35] <Neiluj> <!doctype put what the fuck you want> and browser won't care about it
# [03:36] <paul_irish> that's not true ^
# [03:36] <paul_irish> <!doctype html public "put what the fuck you want">
# [03:36] <Neiluj> :P I spoke too fast
# [03:36] <paul_irish> is peachy
# [03:36] <Neiluj> :D
# [03:36] <Neiluj> yeah that's what I meant :p
# [03:38] <Neiluj> paul_irish: is that simple enough ? http://zeedev.aaz.fr/webkit-grid-bug/
# [03:39] <paul_irish> dont need modernizr
# [03:39] <Neiluj> yep thx, copy paste
# [03:39] <paul_irish> otherwise looks good
# [03:41] <Neiluj> bug updated, need to do something else for people to watch it ?
# [03:43] <paul_irish> that's about it.
# [03:43] <paul_irish> best you can hope for
# [03:44] <Neiluj> rendez-vous in 9 months ;)
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# [03:48] <paul_irish> http://www.nikeskateboarding.com uses boilerplate.
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# [03:48] <paul_irish> pretty serious site.
# [03:50] <Neiluj> did a test about the select text-align with appearance:none, didn't change anything at all
# [03:53] <Neiluj> the frontpage photo is crazy
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# [03:59] <ivanf> Where can I learn HTML 5?
# [04:02] <Neiluj> ivanf: depends on what you want to learn and what you already know about HTML
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# [04:10] <noxxten> Anyone know where to get some decent wood backgrounds for website use?
# [04:10] <noxxten> Most of the ones I find are either too realistic, or poor quality photoshop work :/
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# [04:16] <daleharvey> http://slides.html5rocks.com/#landing-slide in chrome is a good start
# [04:25] <paul_irish> noxxten: can't say that's really on-topic for this channel.
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# [04:26] <ivanf> Neiluj I don't know html
# [04:27] <paul_irish> http://htmldog.com/guides/htmlbeginner/
# [04:27] <Neiluj> ivanf: http://articles.sitepoint.com/article/html-css-beginners-guide
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# [04:28] <ivanf> Thank you
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# [04:52] <tw2113> still have hair cgcardona ?
# [04:53] <cgcardona> nope - got my head shaved a couple of dayz ago
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# [04:53] <tw2113> well good, you had nothing to pull earlier
# [04:53] <cgcardona> oh yeah (0-O0
# [04:53] <cgcardona> * (O_o)
# [04:54] <cgcardona> thankfully that worked out for the better
# [04:54] <cgcardona> i got to spend a little time in SQL world in the magical land of phpmyadmin
# [04:55] <cgcardona> how did you get your client in the UK tw2113 ?
# [04:55] <tw2113> i call it day job
# [04:55] <tw2113> they give me projects, i do them
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# [04:56] <tw2113> i usually don't ask too much about where and how we get pulled into it
# [04:56] <tw2113> quite frankly, i consider it a great day if i can make it work and look decent in IE as well with only 5 attribute changes
# [04:57] <cgcardona> i hear ya
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# [05:05] <techrush> love the new logo guys!
# [05:07] <cgcardona> techrush: :D
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# [05:14] <tw2113> anyone want to read the mindless rantings of a potential moron? go here and rea kn33ch41_'s replies http://www.reddit.com/r/web_design/comments/f4jmo/html5_elements_in_internet_explorer_without/
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# [05:27] <grantg> het
# [05:27] <grantg> hey
# [05:27] <paul_irish> het
# [05:28] <grantg> Put up a youtube video of my stuff finally
# [05:28] <tw2113> sup grant
# [05:28] <grantg> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojDWQ_Vtho
# [05:28] <paul_irish> wooooo
# [05:28] <tw2113> i'm typing out a long reply to that reddi thread, that i can paste again
# [05:28] <grantg> :D
# [05:29] <tw2113> here ya go, http://www.reddit.com/r/web_design/comments/f4jmo/html5_elements_in_internet_explorer_without/
# [05:29] <tw2113> he hates the semantic stuff most
# [05:29] <grantg> BTW, what you're seeing is me continuing a previous save
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# [05:30] <obert-> hi,the js for ie is it really needed if using <header>, <footer> etc?
# [05:31] <tw2113> the html5shiv stuff obert- ?
# [05:31] <obert-> mmhm
# [05:31] <tw2113> yes
# [05:31] <tw2113> IE won't apply styles to elements it won't recognize
# [05:31] <obert-> rc="http://html5shiv.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/html5.js
# [05:31] <tw2113> the shiv alerts IE that "hey, this is something that can hold styles"
# [05:31] <paul_irish> unless you dont plan on styling those elements.
# [05:32] <obert-> uhm?
# [05:32] <paul_irish> so yes. it is neccesary
# [05:32] <paul_irish> it is also completely in modernizr.
# [05:32] <obert-> display:block wasnt enought?
# [05:32] <tw2113> not for IE
# [05:33] <tw2113> the good browsers, yes
# [05:33] <obert-> hm?
# [05:33] <tw2113> good browsers recognize them as styleable by default
# [05:33] <obert-> good browsers shouldnt havent issues by using <header> since theres a dtd?
# [05:33] <obert-> sigh
# [05:33] <tw2113> if all else fails, try it and see
# [05:34] <obert-> not followin so
# [05:34] <tw2113> have no reference to the shiv or modernizr, and apply a border to the header tag
# [05:34] <tw2113> does the border show up in chrome/firefox/opera/safari?
# [05:34] <obert-> dunno
# [05:34] <tw2113> if yes, then the shiv would not be needed for them
# [05:34] <obert-> come on.
# [05:34] <paul_irish> obert-: what are you asking
# [05:35] <obert-> menu, nav, section { display: block; } is a default for any browsers (good browsers?)
# [05:35] <paul_irish> only recent versions of good browsers.
# [05:36] <paul_irish> ff3.6 for instance doesnt have that in their UA stylesheet
# [05:36] * tw2113 goes back to typing his reply
# [05:36] <paul_irish> neither does... safari 5 i bet
# [05:36] <obert-> uhmah
# [05:36] <paul_irish> IE 6-8 still needs it after you apply the shim anyhow
# [05:37] <obert-> i'm not totally convinced:P
# [05:37] <obert-> so is it like parse xml:P
# [05:37] <obert-> <mytag>
# [05:38] <obert-> i think i'll contiinue my html4 production:P
# [05:39] <nimbupani> ermmm wat?
# [05:39] <paul_irish> obert-: what are you talking about xml
# [05:39] <obert-> i think that i'll continue to write in html4:P
# [05:40] <tw2113> that's fine
# [05:40] <obert-> i was trying to see how <header> works. compared it to an xml tag parsed via some way
# [05:40] <tw2113> i find the use of "display: block" and a 1.4kb js file to be worth the effort
# [05:40] <obert-> thought html5 would be a bit more supported
# [05:40] <paul_irish> obert-: its handled the same.
# [05:41] <obert-> i was wrong then,perhaps
# [05:41] <paul_irish> unknown xml tags are display:inline by default
# [05:41] <obert-> yeah but mah
# [05:41] <tw2113> it'd help us explain things if you explained your thought process a bit more
# [05:41] <obert-> it makes me feels weird :P
# [05:41] <tw2113> so? i won't think less of you
# [05:41] <paul_irish> i can tell.
# [05:42] <paul_irish> obert-: it's okay though. there are a lot of aspects of HTML5 that are way cooler than header/footer/nav
# [05:42] <obert-> mah atm i got this http://www.laquarra.it/
# [05:42] <paul_irish> so i kinda skip over those parts myself
# [05:42] <obert-> didnt tested / ended up
# [05:43] <paul_irish> needs some ::selection color
# [05:43] <obert-> yeah infact i will shouldnt get issues
# [05:43] <obert-> hope
# [05:43] <obert-> design?
# [05:43] <paul_irish> looks good though.
# [05:44] <obert-> dont like the bg color
# [05:44] <paul_irish> though the language select is kinda hard to see when its like.. half over the building graphic
# [05:44] <obert-> but i got the idiot h1 img so i cannot play with it so much
# [05:44] <obert-> it was blue with orange link, that header, 2 h ago
# [05:44] <obert-> :P
# [05:45] <obert-> luckily i double checked that shiv js thingy,though.
# [05:45] <obert-> web will makes me get mad
# [05:47] * obert- runs to bed after double checked to get shiv js anywhere :P random thanks
# [05:47] <obert-> (also i need a darker bg color indeed)
# [05:49] <obert-> tomorrow i'll try to continue that project in html5 way. perhaps i'll asks for some cool things to be used ;)
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# [05:49] <paul_irish> COOL THINGS
# [05:50] <obert-> if html5 got some of then:P
# [05:51] <obert-> and really hope to dont meet any old browsers issues by using html5:P
# [05:52] <tw2113> that's always going to be a case, especially with decade old browsers still lingering
# [05:52] <tw2113> the trick is how you deal with those differences
# [05:52] <obert-> cool things..bah
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# [05:53] <obert-> i tend to use html4 and not o much js to stay as far as possible from issues
# [05:53] <obert-> kiss
# [05:54] <obert-> so i started by using a very simple html5 structure in order to can start from a good thing
# [05:55] <tw2113> think of it this way obert-
# [05:55] <tw2113> i did the development of a website for a wine company, using those header and article and footer and sidebar tags
# [05:55] <tw2113> a bunch of those semantic ones
# [05:55] <obert-> get a border on every main section element on any browsers would be just good:P
# [05:56] <tw2113> and i have it running just fine from IE6 to Firefox 4 beta
# [05:56] <tw2113> looking very much the same across the board
# [05:56] <obert-> semantic hehe you means use more nested tags?:P
# [05:56] <tw2113> nope
# [05:56] <obert-> like table th th th
# [05:56] <obert-> nav ul li
# [05:56] <obert-> :D
# [05:56] <tw2113> <nav> ul li li li </nav>
# [05:56] <tw2113> vs div class="nav"
# [05:57] <obert-> hehe i never used div class="nav:D
# [05:57] <obert-> ul id="nav" almost:P
# [05:57] <tw2113> you get the idea though
# [05:57] <obert-> hehe
# [05:57] <tw2113> if you want, go to http://www.jessupcellars.com
# [05:57] <tw2113> that's the site
# [05:57] <obert-> The?
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# [05:58] <obert-> heavy imgs
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# [06:00] <obert-> div img img img
# [06:00] <obert-> mah
# [06:00] <obert-> i dont see nothing particular
# [06:00] <tw2113> no header tag? no nav tag?
# [06:00] <tw2113> header class="mast"
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# [06:01] <obert-> yes sure, i mean that i dont see a very weird structure
# [06:01] <obert-> the feeling that you can have looking at css3 text-shadow for instance
# [06:01] <tw2113> wasn't meant to :P
# [06:02] <obert-> mhmh just a good simple structure then?
# [06:02] <tw2113> yup
# [06:02] <obert-> mm so so:D
# [06:03] <obert-> cycle got a stupid code
# [06:04] <obert-> mmah i retry to get some sleep,thanks
# [06:05] <obert-> need also to create my own address table db
# [06:05] <obert-> and its crud
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# [06:07] <Neiluj> time to sleep, bye
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# [06:11] <tw2113> paul_irish which would you consider being in more experimental flux? the javascript APIs and multimedia tags? or the intended semantic tags? despite which you prefer to use
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# [06:21] <tw2113> damn...my response on reddit turned itself into a 1000+ word essay
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# [06:25] <paul_irish> tw2113: basically none of those are in flux at this point
# [06:26] <tw2113> you feel that they all have a solid foundation to start working with
# [06:27] <tw2113> i really don't know why i'm asking you given what i've seen you do with them and build with them
# [06:27] <tw2113> maybe validation for some of what i said
# [06:27] <tw2113> i do thank you for putting up with me in general :D
# [06:27] <paul_irish> it's a tough job.
# [06:28] <tw2113> :D
# [06:33] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: yo. jslint fork action is a go.
# [06:33] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, ya. let me make the first step
# [06:33] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: i'm thinkin a jshint account on github
# [06:33] <paul_irish> Oh.
# [06:34] <paul_irish> i got the owner of jshint.com to donate the domain :)
# [06:34] <antonkovalyov> https://github.com/antonkovalyov/JSLint
# [06:34] <antonkovalyov> forked on github
# [06:34] <antonkovalyov> it is like creating a directory for your thesis in college
# [06:34] <paul_irish> feels good man
# [06:34] <antonkovalyov> BIG ASS STEP
# [06:35] <antonkovalyov> we have pre-commit hooks checking the code with pyflakes and jslint at work
# [06:35] <antonkovalyov> and you can't believe how fucking annoying it is
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# [06:41] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, i am going to go through the jslint code and crockford's book later, picking sane things out of it
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# [06:42] <tw2113> what does jslint do?
# [06:42] <tw2113> i'm curious
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# [06:43] <paul_irish> bitches at you about your code that totally works but might not have a space in the right space.
# [06:43] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [06:44] <tw2113> :O double spaces after periods
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# [06:44] <tw2113> if it find one, it reaches through and slaps you over TCP/IP?
# [06:45] <tw2113> http://image.spreadshirt.net/image-server/image/composition/17027577/view/1/producttypecolor/2/type/png/width/378/height/378/schwarz-slap-over-tcp-ip-t-shirts_design.png
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# [06:47] <tw2113> oh great, now i'm getting "cool story bro" by people who don't have the last name of Irish
# [06:47] <antonkovalyov> ?csb
# [06:47] <bot-t> cool story, bro. http://goo.gl/m4706
# [06:47] <antonkovalyov> :)
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# [06:50] <tw2113> ?fmb
# [06:50] <bot-t> who?!?
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# [07:14] <thatryan> so whats this jshint stuff?
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# [07:46] <paul_irish> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-content/crop.png wolly, the CSS sheep.
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# [07:52] <tw2113> http://imgur.com/GfwaA
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# [09:31] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, ohai
# [09:31] <paul_irish> YAYYAYAYYYYY
# [09:31] <dgathright> They're bbbaaaaaaaaaackkkkk
# [09:32] <paul_irish> OMG MISSED YOU GUYS
# [09:32] <dgathright> *hugs*
# [09:32] <thatryan> fell into black hole did ya?
# [09:32] <paul_irish> seems so
# [09:32] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: you change jslint yet?
# [09:33] <antonkovalyov> nah doing something for thatryan real quick
# [09:33] <thatryan> what antonkovalyov is he saved precious comments i accidentally deleted from my disqus
# [09:34] <paul_irish> YAWN
# [09:34] <paul_irish> friend abuse is what that is.
# [09:34] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [09:34] <thatryan> no i got lucky
# [09:34] <nimbupani> seems like :/
# [09:35] <thatryan> if it was not on an important post i would not have asked :(
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# [09:36] <antonkovalyov> it was not too hard; it was actually useful since i discovered how outdated our restore forum script is
# [09:36] <antonkovalyov> fixed now, committed, everybody is happy
# [09:36] <antonkovalyov> EXCEPT FOR PAUL_IRISH HAHA
# [09:36] <thatryan> haha
# [09:36] <paul_irish> :'(
# [09:36] <thatryan> thanks antonkovalyov yuo indeed rock :)
# [09:36] <antonkovalyov> soo
# [09:37] <antonkovalyov> how should i approach this
# [09:37] <antonkovalyov> aside from stupid constraints in jslint
# [09:37] <antonkovalyov> i want the fork to have only actual useful stuff
# [09:37] <antonkovalyov> that people in real world actually use
# [09:38] <paul_irish> good defaults
# [09:38] <paul_irish> but options for all the shit that crockford is too inflexible to support
# [09:38] <paul_irish> ?crock
# [09:38] <bot-t> Your sadly pathetic bleatings are harshing my mellow.
# [09:38] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [09:38] <dgathright> You could just do what the webOS dudes do, put at the top /* jslint: evil */
# [09:38] <dgathright> problem solved
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# [09:38] <antonkovalyov> this just enables eval statements
# [09:39] <antonkovalyov> some things are not even options
# [09:39] <antonkovalyov> cause crockford decided THAT EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD must write like he said
# [09:39] <paul_irish> yup
# [09:39] <paul_irish> also the options should be preserved till next time you arrive
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# [09:40] <paul_irish> and/or a nice way to handle it at the command line
# [09:40] <dgathright> I usually tell people I had hair until i met jslint. Coincidence that NCZ works with Crock and is also bald? I THINK NOT
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# [09:41] <paul_irish> lol
# [09:41] <antonkovalyov> till next time you arrive? hm?
# [09:42] <paul_irish> dgathright: i dont know if you heard but.. a bunch of people are working on a fork of jslint
# [09:42] <paul_irish> that'll be managed by the community instead of crock
# [09:42] <paul_irish> and we'll take over the jshint domain
# [09:42] <paul_irish> and make sure it's nice and doesnt make you cry
# [09:43] <antonkovalyov> i think dgathright works at y!
# [09:43] <antonkovalyov> crock has the ultimate authority over him :)
# [09:43] <dgathright> doesn't surprise me. I like the idea. JS isn't, and has never been about 1 person's ideas (well, except for /BE). It should be controlled by the community. I'd expect (or hope) that Crock would agree too.
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# [09:46] <paul_irish> fo sho.
# [09:46] <dgathright> JSLint is awesome as a reference tool. I learned soooo many good things from it and can write mostly passable code without running it through the linter. I think some get too wrapped up in making it a requirement that everything runs though it perfectly before pushing to prod.
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# [09:49] <antonkovalyov> oh wait paul_irish, did you mean options on the website?
# [09:49] <paul_irish> fucking checkboxes.
# [09:49] <paul_irish> needs more.
# [09:51] <antonkovalyov> checkboxes — minor. first i need to add all those fucking options to the actual jslint.
# [09:52] <paul_irish> well..
# [09:52] <paul_irish> yeah. :)
# [09:53] <paul_irish> the easy part!
# [09:53] <antonkovalyov> haha
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# [10:09] <antonkovalyov> k, code is not too complicated
# [10:09] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, do you know any articles/tweets about of bitching about jslint?
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# [10:17] <dgathright> Twitter uses JSlint for their code, so any anti-JSlint tweets are automatically filtered out of your stream.
# [10:18] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [10:18] <antonkovalyov> gg http://adsafe.org/
# [10:18] <antonkovalyov> no link to actually download adsafe.js
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# [10:30] <benschwarz> join jquery-ot
# [10:30] <benschwarz> oops :)
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# [11:09] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, still here?
# [11:12] <antonkovalyov> :'-(
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# [11:26] <antonkovalyov> ?tell paul_irish see https://github.com/antonkovalyov/JSLint/commit/7c7a771b387c81635b15b3337938e46d887726dd
# [11:26] <bot-t> antonkovalyov, Okay.
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# [11:44] <beevi7> damn
# [11:45] <beevi7> i tried to start a series of articles about html5
# [11:45] <beevi7> but the topic is way to complex. i dont know where to begin
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# [12:06] <Neiluj> yay
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# [14:04] <matjas> oh look, an HTML5 website!!! http://www.bobduljohnsonattorneyatlaw.biz/
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# [14:07] <okaycool> bobdul!
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# [14:09] <Neiluj> damn, best viewed in netscape ?
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# [14:19] <shwetank> entertaining rant by bruce lawson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvEncpCDEBI
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# [14:28] <JKarsrud> anyone have the link to the slides on css mixins, variables etc?
# [14:28] <JKarsrud> the on by tab atkins
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# [14:33] <ben_c> JKarsrud: http://www.xanthir.com/talks/2011–01-12/slides.html
# [14:33] <JKarsrud> ben_c: Sweet, thanks!
# [14:33] <ben_c> no problem!
# [14:33] <JKarsrud> 404'd on me though :(
# [14:33] <ben_c> ah man
# [14:34] <JKarsrud> looks like it's been removed :(
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# [14:36] <svenlito> JKarsrud: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LwGcltcSEXAJ:www.xanthir.com/talks/2011-01-12/slides.html+http://www.xanthir.com/talks/2011%E2%80%9301-12/slides.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
# [14:36] <JKarsrud> ahh,thanks svenlito!
# [14:37] <svenlito> don't know if that works from cache tho
# [14:38] <ben_c> seems to
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# [14:40] <svenlito> the original content is back, no need for the cached version
# [14:40] <JKarsrud> ahh, sweet
# [14:40] <JKarsrud> not here :/
# [14:41] <svenlito> weird, im looking at it right now
# [14:41] <ben_c> working good this end now
# [14:41] <JKarsrud> well, I'm not :P
# [14:42] <JKarsrud> omg
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# [14:42] <JKarsrud> the first dash in ben_c's original link is an en-dash :P
# [14:42] <JKarsrud> or em maybe :P
# [14:42] <ben_c> oh fail of the day
# [14:43] <JKarsrud> yeah
# [14:43] <svenlito> clearly ;)
# [14:43] <ben_c> I copied it from wordpress
# [14:44] <JKarsrud> Strange
# [14:44] <JKarsrud> maybe it does a replce
# [14:44] <JKarsrud> replace
# [14:44] <JKarsrud> tinymce or whatever they use
# [14:45] <ben_c> wp-typography seems to mess with everything
# [14:45] <ben_c> but I've not got round to turn it off and seeing what it breaks
# [14:45] <JKarsrud> mm
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# [14:45] <JKarsrud> well, now that I know what the link is, I'll pass it around to even more people :P
# [14:45] <jacson> looking at http://www.guardian.co.uk - they use doctype html and load the html5shiv script, but they don't seem to use any html5 tags on the page. Why would they need to load the script then?
# [14:46] <svenlito> jacson: you sure, i believe they use <video>
# [14:47] <jacson> I have searched the front page, and have not found any html5 tags, but maybe on some other page then?
# [14:48] <ben_c> would you need shiv for just video content? I'd assumed they'd have an icky flash fallback
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# [14:51] <jacson> anyway, I was just curious to see what tricks are used to enable display of html5 pages for IE - html5shiv is clearly a way to go
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# [14:52] <JKarsrud> html5shiv is pretty sweet, yeah
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# [14:52] <svenlito> and if you need a little more: http://modernizr.github.com/Modernizr/2.0-beta/ :)
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# [14:58] <jacson> Modernizr is more for feature detection, not for smoothing over the lack of support?
# [14:58] <ben_c> it does both
# [14:59] <ben_c> I can't imagine life without modernizr !
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# [14:59] <JKarsrud> true
# [15:00] <JKarsrud> modernizr is more epic than html5shiv, but if all you need is html5 element support, I guess it does the job quite nicely :D
# [15:01] <jacson> great, I will try it out right now :-)
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# [15:04] <Neiluj> Changing the parser in Firefox 3.5.x or 3.6.x is out of scope
# [15:04] <Neiluj> now it's clear
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# [15:41] <serio> is there a tool out there that'll take external css and throw inline?
# [15:41] <serio> *it*
# [15:41] <Neiluj> serio: you mean minify css ?
# [15:41] <digitalfiz> apache serverside includes?
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# [15:42] <serio> naw, like take it from the external CSS file and throw them into the html file inline based on class names/ids
# [15:42] <serio> for webmail
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# [15:48] <ben_c> I think you'd be able to write something in javascript that could sort that out
# [15:50] <serio> I actually found a decent looking one: http://www.pelagodesign.com/sidecar/emogrifier/
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# [15:55] <tw2113> morning remysharp
# [15:55] <remysharp> hey
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# [15:57] <tw2113> how's things your way?
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# [16:11] <bentruyman> ok, so what are we supposed to use: microdata, RDFa, microformats?
# [16:12] <tw2113> thus far i've stuck to microformats when possible and the html5 semantic tags
# [16:12] <tw2113> i haven't looked at RDFa much yet
# [16:14] <bentruyman> i kinda feel like i wanna stay away from RDFa
# [16:14] <bentruyman> far away
# [16:14] <tw2113> i won't tell them
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# [16:38] <remysharp> tw2113: sorry chap - was in #whatwg debugging SSE issues
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# [16:38] <remysharp> also, I'm in a car - so kind weird being online :)
# [16:38] <tw2113> no worries, i figure everyone has life to be living anyway
# [16:39] <tw2113> that's the important stuff
# [16:40] <ben_c> remy: I hope you're not driving
# [16:44] <ben_c> pretty neat: http://people.opera.com/danield/html5/html5logo/
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# [16:50] <remysharp-away> ben_c: no - not yet
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# [16:51] <serio> anybody ever notice this thing with chrome where the controls mess up? like arrows disapear on the scrollbars and radio/checkboxes stop working?
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# [16:54] <tw2113> i haven't
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# [17:02] <bobslaede> Im doing some canvas stuff, trying to learn. Im trying to create a simple image editor, for use when uploading large images.
# [17:03] <bobslaede> Features such as move and rotate, resize
# [17:03] <bobslaede> but when rotating, i find that moving the image is weird, as it moves on the new axis after the rotation, and not on the main axis
# [17:04] <bobslaede> anybody with experience in this?
# [17:04] <Michael> I do not.
# [17:05] <Michael> Can you set pivot points?
# [17:05] <Michael> If so make sure they're centered
# [17:05] <Michael> Sorry I can't offer more help
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# [17:06] <bobslaede> Yeah, but its after i rotate the image, and i change the x cord, then the image movies along its own baseline (kinda) and not the horizon in the whole canvas
# [17:06] <bobslaede> makes sense?
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# [17:07] <bobslaede> im also figuring out if the mouse is inside the view of the image, before i grap it, and this 'box' of the position and dimension of the image, isnt where the rotated image is, well, because its rotated
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# [17:55] <tw2113> :D project has contact information template....hcard time!
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# [18:28] <tw2113> ?fmb
# [18:28] <bot-t> who?!?
# [18:29] <thatryan> tw2113: are you playing with bot cause you are lonely? :p
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# [18:30] <tw2113> nah, just momentarily bored
# [18:30] <thatryan> heh
# [18:31] <tw2113> *shivers* i should not have clicked that link, no matter what i think of the author
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# [18:39] <ben_c> http://twitter.com/#!/WHATWG/status/27780227706912768
# [18:39] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/ho78Qd @WHATWG: http://whatwg.org/html is getting renamed from HTML5 to HTML in a few hours to avoid confusion with the HTML5 buzzword. Okay? #html5
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# [18:43] <ben_c> I blame the logo
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# [18:44] <mikew3c> I credit the logo
# [18:44] <thatryan> i bledit the logo
# [18:44] <thatryan> wait what
# [18:46] <ben_c> damn, going to have to change all my doctypes to <!doctype html> from <!doctype HTML5>
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# [18:46] <ben_c> *just kidding*
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# [19:07] <Neiluj> yay a new video from paul_irish
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# [19:09] <nimbupani> beep boop
# [19:09] <paul_irish> nimbupani: regarding carvingcode's comment about print and media queries
# [19:09] <nimbupani> yeah
# [19:09] <paul_irish> he's talking about the @media print { } block we have in style.css
# [19:09] <paul_irish> which IEPP doesn't acknowledge.
# [19:09] <nimbupani> yes
# [19:09] <nimbupani> thats why i said it needs to be in a separate stylesheet
# [19:09] <nimbupani> he also mentioned about printing html5 elms
# [19:09] <paul_irish> but IE6-8 totally support that print block
# [19:10] <nimbupani> which we dont even do
# [19:10] <nimbupani> wat
# [19:10] <nimbupani> ORLY
# [19:10] <nimbupani> I didnt know
# [19:10] <paul_irish> IEPP supportign printing html5 elems
# [19:10] <paul_irish> slash html5shim slash modernizr
# [19:10] <paul_irish> EXCEPT the ones in @media print { } blocks
# [19:10] <nimbupani> O I SEE
# [19:10] <nimbupani> then i edit my comment
# [19:11] <paul_irish> so it's a legit bug.. i filed it with jonathan and thats why he showed up last night :)
# [19:11] <nimbupani> O okay :)
# [19:11] <paul_irish> he might determine that it's not worthwhile to support any @media print styles
# [19:11] <paul_irish> because it'd be too costly.. and i'd buy that.
# [19:12] <paul_irish> until then, it's unresolved :)
# [19:12] <nimbupani> o kay
# [19:12] <nimbupani> got it.
# [19:12] <nimbupani> i editz
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# [19:22] <nimbupani> paul_irish: do you know aobut this ? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2796814/how-do-i-get-the-wvga-android-browser-to-stop-scaling-my-images/2799580
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# [19:22] <nimbupani> AND WHY WHY WHY
# [19:23] <paul_irish> nimbupani: no never seen it aside from being linked from the densityDpi issue
# [19:23] <paul_irish> we should ask joe mccann if he's seen it
# [19:23] <nimbupani> u mean this tonyjcamp?
# [19:23] <nimbupani> who submitted the issue
# [19:23] <nimbupani> he says he has it
# [19:24] <nimbupani> and this solves it.
# [19:24] <paul_irish> right but i was thinking of asking a more experienced mobile expert.
# [19:24] <paul_irish> or shichuan
# [19:24] <nimbupani> o like that
# [19:24] <nimbupani> cool yeah we can.
# [19:25] <nimbupani> anyway I dont think this needs to go into boilerplate but just needs to be in wiki if true.
# [19:25] <paul_irish> agreed.
# [19:25] <paul_irish> can you ping shichuan to look at the issue anyway
# [19:25] <nimbupani> yeah
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# [19:35] <digitalfiz> i love you paul_irish
# [19:35] <tw2113> what did i walk into
# [19:35] <paul_irish> ♡ you too baby
# [19:35] <digitalfiz> man love
# [19:35] <nimbupani> BABBY
# [19:36] <digitalfiz> i decided last night i was going to write a web based IDE and im starting with boilerplate :D
# [19:36] <paul_irish> shit. good luck!
# [19:37] <paul_irish> doesnt sound too easy. :)
# [19:37] <digitalfiz> its probably going to start out as a simple multi tabbed editor
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# [19:37] <paul_irish> digitalfiz: you should fork this one.. see ?g cloud9ide
# [19:37] <bot-t> digitalfiz, Cloud9 IDE - Ajax.org - http://www.cloud9ide.com/
# [19:38] <paul_irish> the whole thing is on github already
# [19:38] <digitalfiz> interesting
# [19:38] <paul_irish> nimbupani: im digging into ie9 compat mode blacklisting
# [19:38] <nimbupani> okay cool paul_irish
# [19:38] <digitalfiz> oooo i really like the design of that one paul_irish
# [19:39] <digitalfiz> very chromish
# [19:39] <digitalfiz> ive already done some work with php+ftp file editing
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# [19:40] <tw2113> http://0at.org/summer-2008.html :D
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# [19:47] <tylerknowsthis> Can you embed custom fonts and use it in an html5 canvas with fillText() ?
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# [19:59] <mokush> is there any other way, other than css, to do valid align="center" with html 5 markup?
# [20:00] <nimbupani> why would you want to do it with markup :/
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# [20:05] <nimbupani> so awes to see more designers using github https://github.com/weightshift/The-Personal-Page
# [20:05] <nimbupani> ♥
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# [20:06] <tw2113> interesting idea, hosting templates on there
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# [20:06] <tw2113> especially since I have ideas for a wordpress theme that mimics what myspace used to be
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# [20:49] <mikesusz> that's a good idea. bonded & insured. with the stuff to move electronics gear
# [20:49] <mikesusz> mischan sry
# [20:49] <tw2113> paulrouget, any correct link tweeting? :P
# [20:50] <Neiluj> paul_irish: the inception metaphor is awesome :)
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# [20:53] <mokush> nimbupani: I'm just trying to do something stupid. So, is there any way that would fit with the spec?
# [20:54] <digitalfiz> you could do style="margin: auto;"
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# [20:55] <mokush> digitalfiz: it must be markup only, no css whatsoever
# [20:55] <digitalfiz> :/
# [20:55] <tw2113> styles go in stylesheets, silly
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# [20:56] <digitalfiz> your trying to style without using styles
# [20:57] <mokush> just help me out guys, I assure you I won't use this anywhere :)
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# [21:02] <nimbupani> table > td ?
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# [21:04] <mokush> but I can't use the align attribute
# [21:04] <tw2113> damn it, contact information is not likely good for a table is it...
# [21:04] <tw2113> i could maybe do some divs
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# [21:07] <digitalfiz> a table with 3 columns would work
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# [21:07] <tw2113> for you or me?
# [21:10] <Neiluj> paul_irish: thanks for your video, I've learned some very interesting things, like the first episode :)
# [21:10] <Neiluj> somebody for the "10 things I learned from the JSLint source" ? :D
# [21:11] <paul_irish> ha
# [21:11] <paul_irish> ?crock @ Neiluj
# [21:11] <bot-t> Neiluj, Your sadly pathetic bleatings are harshing my mellow.
# [21:11] <Neiluj> ;)
# [21:12] <jdalton> haha "harshing my mellow" sounds like the dude
# [21:13] <jdalton> The Dude - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Lebowski
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# [21:13] <Neiluj> I don't understand at all what it means but I guess it's some kind of 'I love you'
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# [21:14] <paul_irish> something like that.
# [21:15] <jdalton> harshing my mellow is like being a buzz kill
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# [21:16] <jdalton> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Harshing%20my%20mellow&defid=1117869
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# [21:18] <Brodingo> i maek a canvas http://jsfiddle.net/Brodingo/762Hd/2/
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# [21:23] <bobslaede> Im trying to do some basic image editing with canvas. 'simple' stuff like rotating an image. But I would like to be able to draw a horizon, and have the image aligned with it. But im having trouble with the calculations
# [21:23] <bobslaede> To straighten images
# [21:25] <Brodingo> is there a way in canvas to apply a shadow to whatever has already been drawn?
# [21:26] <echoSMILE> Neiluj: what videos are you seeing?
# [21:26] <Neiluj> echoSMILE: http://paulirish.com/2011/11-more-things-i-learned-from-the-jquery-source/
# [21:26] <bobslaede> Brodingo: i think you have to define the shadow before you draw
# [21:26] <echoSMILE> this jsfiddle are pretty amazing :D
# [21:26] <echoSMILE> Neiluj: jquery
# [21:26] <echoSMILE> hum ok
# [21:26] <Brodingo> yeah i figured
# [21:26] <Neiluj> echoSMILE: but look at the first episode first if not you'll be spoiled
# [21:27] <echoSMILE> im a prototypejs dude
# [21:27] <tylerknowsthis> anyone got a way to fade/change opacity of an image inside a html5 canvas?
# [21:27] <echoSMILE> :>
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# [21:28] <Neiluj> echoSMILE: no one is perfect
# [21:28] <tylerknowsthis> nevermind... solution is to set context.globalAlpha, then draw image, then set context.globalAlpha back to 1
# [21:28] <Neiluj> tylerknowsthis: that's a bit silly don't you think ?
# [21:28] <tylerknowsthis> is there another way ?
# [21:29] <Neiluj> I don't think so...
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# [21:29] <tylerknowsthis> just trying to fade an image in ...
# [21:32] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, seen my commit? see where i am going with jslint?
# [21:34] <chriseppstein> did you guys talk about http://www.debeterevormgever.nl/html5-ie-without-javascript/ yet?
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# [21:53] <mokush> this is what I needed markup-based centering for, http://bit.ly/f5ipFt
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# [21:54] <miketaylr> heh, nice
# [21:55] <mokush> miketaylr: stupidest ideea I had in a while, if only somebody would pay me for these
# [21:55] <miketaylr> i'm sure there's a market
# [21:56] <mokush> if there's a market for pet psychologists, there must be
# [21:56] <Neiluj> chriseppstein: interesting but I don't see myself writing <html:tag> only because of disabled javascript users :/
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# [21:58] <Neiluj> time to get home, babye
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# [22:23] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: yeah man. saw the commit. best commit to ever land in a jslint repo
# [22:23] <paul_irish> EVER
# [22:23] <antonkovalyov> hahahaha
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# [22:23] <antonkovalyov> seriously though
# [22:23] <paul_irish> seriously though
# [22:23] <antonkovalyov> do you agree that this is a right direction to go?
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# [22:23] <paul_irish> didnt we alrady agree on that?
# [22:24] <nimbupani> paul_irish: did you see meyer's new reset about removing outline: 0? we wouldnt have to do our outline fixes then
# [22:24] <antonkovalyov> ya but just checking. i always re-check after the code is written
# [22:24] <paul_irish> nimbupani: he basically jus doesnt outline:0 anything right
# [22:24] <nimbupani> yeah
# [22:24] <nimbupani> simpler
# [22:24] <paul_irish> that's equivalent to ours.
# [22:24] <nimbupani> well its much smaller
# [22:24] <nimbupani> than ours
# [22:24] <paul_irish> we leave `a` out of the first one
# [22:25] <paul_irish> cuz what parts of a needs to be reset?
# [22:25] <nimbupani> yes but we set same styles without the outline for a later
# [22:25] <paul_irish> somewhere in his post should be why outline:0 is not needed for non-a elements, yes?
# [22:25] <nimbupani> so with this we remove a rule from CSS
# [22:25] <paul_irish> what rule
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# [22:26] <nimbupani> the rule where we reset a separately
# [22:26] <nimbupani> from the rest.
# [22:26] <paul_irish> wha?
# [22:26] <Michael> I really don't like mvn
# [22:27] <paul_irish> a:hover, a:active { outline: none; }
# [22:27] <Michael> You run a command for 10 minutes to find out you didn't type it correctly
# [22:27] <paul_irish> that one?
# [22:27] <nimbupani> noo
# [22:27] <nimbupani> looking
# [22:27] <nimbupani> https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/blob/master/css/style.css#L50
# [22:27] <antonkovalyov> http://twitter.com/#!/antonkovalyov/status/27838433552502785
# [22:27] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/eqA7rg @antonkovalyov: JavaScript people, do you know if anybody actually uses ADSafe (adsafe.org)?
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# [22:27] <nimbupani> we remove outline: 0 and then add a back to the master list of resets
# [22:28] <nimbupani> and remove that line no. 50
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# [22:28] <nimbupani> socialhapy you quit too much.
# [22:28] <paul_irish> people use caja. nobody uses adsafe
# [22:28] <paul_irish> peol is working on socialhapy right now
# [22:28] <peol> yeah, sorry about that
# [22:28] <nimbupani> no worries
# [22:29] <paul_irish> nimbupani: huh. didnt know we did that
# [22:29] <nimbupani> erm yeah
# [22:29] <nimbupani> thats what I am saying!
# [22:29] <paul_irish> i wonder why
# [22:29] <antonkovalyov> if nobody uses adsafe, i'll remove it from jshint
# [22:29] <nimbupani> coz of the stupid outline
# [22:30] <paul_irish> nimbupani: right right. we removed a from the first rule cuz of the outline.. but i don tknow why we're forcing those specific styles back onto A
# [22:30] <paul_irish> like.. margin and padding default cannot be non-zero for the a element
# [22:30] <nimbupani> yeah
# [22:30] <nimbupani> i know
# [22:30] <nimbupani> we dont need them on a
# [22:30] <paul_irish> font-size is the only one i dont know for sure
# [22:30] <nimbupani> but a inherits
# [22:30] <paul_irish> so i think we can (and shouldve already) killed that line.
# [22:31] <nimbupani> yeah so according to iecss.com a only gets color and text-decoration
# [22:31] <paul_irish> unless you think it has value to just adopt meyer's shit straight up.
# [22:31] <nimbupani> both of which is not resetting.
# [22:31] <nimbupani> naah
# [22:31] <paul_irish> thank god for iecss.com
# [22:31] <paul_irish> jonathanneal++
# [22:32] <nimbupani> ok removing
# [22:32] <paul_irish> k lets drop the rule.
# [22:32] <paul_irish> nimbupani: also can you kill some of the superfluous linebreaks in the top rule
# [22:32] <nimbupani> like what?
# [22:32] <nimbupani> o you mean kill all line breaks? or just some
# [22:32] <paul_irish> just some
# [22:34] <nimbupani> so should we kill outline: 0?
# [22:34] <nimbupani> given meyer has killed it.
# [22:35] <nimbupani> ♥ http://blog.whatwg.org/html-is-the-new-html5
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# [22:37] <nimbupani> paul_irish: ^ (outline: 0)
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# [22:38] <danielFilho_> danielfilho: hello, me.
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# [22:40] <benschwarz_> Morning morning!
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# [22:41] <paul_irish> nimbupani: well i'm still not convinced that no other elements ever want outline
# [22:41] <nimbupani> well we are only removing NOT having an outline
# [22:41] <nimbupani> as in resetting without knowing
# [22:41] <nimbupani> i would rather reset only when I come across any
# [22:42] <paul_irish> tabindex
# [22:42] <nimbupani> tabindex only does on focus?
# [22:42] <paul_irish> also you can see from the opera guy's page we have linked that our solution is a bit better looking than ignoring outline completely
# [22:43] <benschwarz_> I had never seen an out
# [22:43] <benschwarz_> Line. Until I styled a spec....
# [22:43] <nimbupani> :D
# [22:43] <paul_irish> nimbupani: er.. i'm okkay with dropping outline:0 from the first reset.. lets keep a:hover, a:active { outline: none; }
# [22:44] <nimbupani> yeah deff
# [22:44] <nimbupani> thats only what I wanted.
# [22:44] <paul_irish> we clearly do not hate blind people.
# [22:44] <nimbupani> OBVIOUSLY
# [22:44] <paul_irish> :)
# [22:45] <benschwarz_> I thought the rationale for removing anti
# [22:46] <benschwarz_> Antialised text was strange... Pre tags, right
# [22:46] <nimbupani> benschwarz_: your iphone is too small :P
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# [22:46] <nimbupani> explain benschwarz_ do you mean in boilerplate?
# [22:46] <benschwarz_> I do
# [22:46] <dgathright> Yay, "HTML5" is dead. Long live HTML. (If I'm reading that correctly) http://blog.whatwg.org/html-is-the-new-html5
# [22:47] <tw2113> yeah, this has been the week of muddled meanings
# [22:48] <paul_irish> benschwarz_: it actually was only a tiny bit about monospace text
# [22:48] <tw2113> boo, still no response to my 1246 word reddit reply :D
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# [22:48] <benschwarz_> paul_irish: I guess webos?
# [22:49] <dgathright> I find it really funny that hixie announces that the day after the W3C announces the big marketing push for HTML5.
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# [22:49] <benschwarz_> What's the best android device I could get for browser testing?
# [22:49] <paul_irish> webos had the ext-rendering: optimizeLegibility bug
# [22:49] <benschwarz_> dgathright: He was just digging the boots in :)
# [22:49] <ericduran> benschwarz: the android emulator
# [22:49] <benschwarz_> paul_irish: Yeah I remember
# [22:49] <nimbupani> yeah they are both confusing :/
# [22:50] <nimbupani> i always get confused between optimizeLeg and anti-aliased
# [22:50] <benschwarz_> ericduran: Ok, actually I mean "design". I want a device
# [22:50] <paul_irish> http://peterc.org/blog/2010/235-webkit-font-smoothing-antialiased-is-shit.html
# [22:50] <paul_irish> http://www.usabilitypost.com/2010/08/26/font-smoothing/
# [22:50] <benschwarz_> I see them as the same. It means "make the text slow and good looking"
# [22:50] <paul_irish> ^ why we killed -webkit-font-smoothing
# [22:50] <benschwarz_> :)
# [22:51] <nimbupani> i need some starred github issues
# [22:51] <paul_irish> in general it means you have a better idea of how text shoud look on every device/resolution/fontsmoothing/textrenderer/OS than the browser does
# [22:51] <nimbupani> so i can like refer to them
# [22:52] <paul_irish> which.. i would not trust many people to be that proficient.
# [22:52] <paul_irish> or rigorous in their testing
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# [22:55] <BrianBlakely> Is there a good way to convert a NodeList into an Array, so I can use splice() n' stuff?
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# [22:55] <benschwarz_> nimbupani: You're an android user, aren't you?
# [22:56] <benschwarz_> I'm sick of simulator...
# [22:56] <paul_irish> hey brian
# [22:56] <nimbupani> no waiz benschwarz_
# [22:56] <BrianBlakely> Hiya Paul
# [22:56] <nimbupani> i use the cheapest nokia around.
# [22:56] <paul_irish> [].slice.call(nodelist)
# [22:56] <tw2113> i was totally expecting to hear "i use iphone"
# [22:56] <nimbupani> i dont like phones.
# [22:57] <tw2113> not like they get used as phones anyway
# [22:57] <benschwarz_> :/
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# [22:57] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: That's ridiculously 1337, wts
# [22:57] <paul_irish> most people would start out at Array.prototype.slice.call(nodelist)
# [22:57] <benschwarz_> I can get to a webos device
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# [22:58] <paul_irish> and that might be faster...... but probably not.. but just creating an empty array just to hijack it's slice method is easier
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# [22:58] <BrianBlakely> I like it, it's cleaner
# [22:58] <nimbupani> benschwarz_: what about the new android that was announced? I think paul_irish has one.
# [22:58] <BrianBlakely> Thanks a lot man
# [22:59] <paul_irish> i have the nexus s, ben. it's hawt
# [23:00] * digitalfiz pets his baby the htc g1
# [23:01] <BrianBlakely> I got the Pre 2 from Palm recently… I like it, but the webOS browser is not HWA, and thus neither are its apps
# [23:01] <BrianBlakely> Mostly running the iPhone 4
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# [23:03] <BrianBlakely> I'm a big classic gamer, so Sony's Xperia Play intrigues me
# [23:03] <BrianBlakely> Though if I were bite at all on that, I'd wait for v2
# [23:03] <BrianBlakely> Phones!
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# [23:04] <Michael> Good night guys
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# [23:05] <antonkovalyov> i use iphone :)
# [23:05] <digitalfiz> paul_irish, cloud9ide is sexy thanks for the suggestion
# [23:06] <digitalfiz> its all written in javascript though and im still a n00b with javascript hehe but i suppose working with it will help me build my skills
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# [23:09] <masondesu> digitalfiz, I got my beta invite to Cloud9IDE this morning. Messed around with it for a few minutes. It was totally bad ass. GitHub integration is sweet.
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# [23:10] <digitalfiz> oh im not playing with the service i downloaded the code myself and am running one myself
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# [23:11] <masondesu> you mean the local version?
# [23:11] <grantg> I might need to move my GBA emu work into cloud9
# [23:11] <digitalfiz> yes
# [23:12] <masondesu> yeah, I saw a little info about that. Do you prefer that to the online version?
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# [23:13] <digitalfiz> i havent tried the service yet
# [23:13] <digitalfiz> i signed up just waiting on an invite
# [23:14] <digitalfiz> it seems like a good solution to allow me to work on projects from my chrome netbook
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# [23:15] <grantg> damn you clippy plugin
# [23:15] <tw2113> it's the new rickroll?
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# [23:16] <dgathright> Confused. So if WHATWG has an "HTML" spec, and the W3C has an "HTML5" spec, as they diverge over-time, which is the one the browsers will use?
# [23:17] <tw2113> good question
# [23:17] <paul_irish> browser vendors are most engaged at the whatwg level
# [23:17] <paul_irish> but these specs have the same editor
# [23:17] <paul_irish> and havent diverged in a way that is ... important.
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# [23:17] <paul_irish> so its kinda ok.
# [23:18] * danbeam is now confused to whether he's in the right room or not, as HTML5 doesn't exist anymore
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# [23:18] <danbeam> :P
# [23:19] <benschwarz> All this energy on logos and naming…
# [23:19] <dgathright> Yeah, this place is soooooo 2010. I'm going to go hang out with all the cool people in #html
# [23:19] <danbeam> yeah, haha, that's round
# [23:19] <danbeam> rough*
# [23:19] <nimbupani> :D
# [23:19] <masondesu> haha
# [23:19] <danbeam> haha
# [23:19] <nimbupani> ?hi5 benschwarz
# [23:19] <bot-t> ⁵ benschwarz
# [23:19] <tw2113> nice knowing you
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# [23:20] * danbeam actually did just join #html
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# [23:21] <dgathright> should just rename this place to #html1337 :)
# [23:21] <danbeam> lol
# [23:22] <danbeam> paul_irish: is this because Google/hixie has a boner for C.I.?
# [23:22] <miketaylr> #html is a terrible place
# [23:22] <danbeam> hahah
# [23:22] <frenzz> http://blog.whatwg.org/html-is-the-new-html5 0_0
# [23:22] <tw2113> why do you think i said "nice knowing you" miketaylr ? :D
# [23:22] <grantg> ...
# [23:22] <miketaylr> heh
# [23:23] <dgathright> I feel like asking questions about <table> layouts and <font> in #html.
# [23:23] <danbeam> inb4 b& from html
# [23:24] <danbeam> couldn't have just been HTML5+ ?
# [23:24] <danbeam> lol
# [23:24] <danbeam> it's gonna be 10 years before you get as much shit as HTML4 -> HTML5 anyways
# [23:24] <dgathright> I kinda fear this pushback on "HTML5" as a marketing term is just going to push people more towards "Web 3.0"
# [23:24] * dgathright cringes
# [23:25] <paulrouget> http://twitter.com/#!/paulrouget/status/27848118246572032
# [23:25] <danbeam> but how do we push new versions of the Web?
# [23:25] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/igkCvZ @paulrouget: Yesterday, the w3c proposed a HTML5 logo (with a big 5). Today, the WHATWG renames HTML5 HTML. Hmmmm.... http://blog.whatwg.org/?p=12300
# [23:25] <dgathright> lol @ dan
# [23:25] <paulrouget> I don't know what to think.
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# [23:25] <paul_irish> paulrouget: they changed the name of the spec a long time ago.. er at least agreed to.
# [23:25] <paul_irish> maybe 12mo ago?
# [23:26] <paul_irish> they were keeping it saying "html5" just for advocacy reasons
# [23:26] <danbeam> I'm gonna make a backup of Web 2.0 on a 3.5" floppy, just in case
# [23:26] <danbeam> :D
# [23:26] <paul_irish> but agreed that HTML was now versionless.
# [23:26] <paul_irish> in fact, the w3 html working group recently agreed to the same thing.
# [23:26] <paul_irish> so its like.. clearly a reactionary move.
# [23:26] <paul_irish> but.. the decision was made about HTML5 -> HTML a long while ago
# [23:27] <grantg> should I make another demo of the js emulator?
# [23:27] <paul_irish> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-December/024477.html
# [23:27] <paul_irish> ^ where whatwg decides its just HTML in dec 09
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# [23:28] <dgathright> How in the hell does this logo represent "Connectivity"? http://www.w3.org/html/logo/img/class-header-connectivity.jpg
# [23:28] <dgathright> I like some of the others, but that one is just a bit too abstract
# [23:28] <danbeam> dgathright, hahahahah
# [23:29] <miketaylr> yeah, the sub logos are pretty bad :/
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# [23:29] <danbeam> that logo is awesome
# [23:29] <danbeam> and not confusing at all
# [23:30] * grantg is so close to injecting a worm into the data uri encoder in my emulator to prank chrome users
# [23:30] <danbeam> a fun way to find out whether a log is simple enough to remember is - try to describe it to someone (preferrably someone non-tech savvy)
# [23:30] <paulrouget> paul_irish: thx for that
# [23:30] <grantg> I feel like I have the big red button now. :/
# [23:30] <danbeam> s/log/logo/
# [23:31] <danbeam> dgathright: try to explain that logo to me
# [23:31] <danbeam> (assume I've never seen it)
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# [23:32] <danbeam> "well, erm, it's a claw rising out of a tulip or (river delta?) above a smokey sky with the word CONNECTIVITY below it"
# [23:32] <dgathright> Ooooo..... look at the orange, not the white. It's like the USB logo.
# [23:32] <dgathright> That's pretty dumb
# [23:33] <danbeam> I've always thought USB was a little weird, too - I'm always afraid water will burst forth from then and Poseidon will come try to kick my ass
# [23:33] <danbeam> from them*
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# [23:33] <dgathright> Hah, I think all the domain squatters who bought every domain combo that has html[0-9]{2} just shit a brick.
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# [23:34] <grantg> lol
# [23:34] <trave> anyone got ie6/7 that could trace a js error for me?
# [23:35] <snover> trave: you are such a kidder
# [23:35] <trave> Ive got a VM with ie8 installed, and running Multiple-ies (6) ... but when i try to open the error dialog, it says "unspecified error"
# [23:35] <trave> :D
# [23:35] <tw2113> yeah, IE is great at helping you debug
# [23:35] <trave> damn IE. I'll poke around in some other channels :]
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# [23:36] * dgathright hopes MS includes Clippy in the IE9 debugger.
# [23:36] <dgathright> "Hi there, it looks like you are trying to inspect a DOM element. Can I help you with that?"
# [23:36] <snover> trave: you doing VML stuff bro?
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# [23:37] <trave> I did a drawing tool, using excanvas... but i dont think thats the problem, I think its the clients js actually
# [23:37] <snover> unspecified error comes from VML.
# [23:37] <trave> im just trying to help debug the situation,
# [23:37] <snover> in pretty much 100% of cases.
# [23:38] <trave> im using virtualbox, running an xp ie8 image... which runs fine... but the multiple-ies app to test ie6 throws that dang "unspecified" any time im trying to find specifics.
# [23:39] <snover> why do you not have vm for ie7?
# [23:39] <grantg> lol
# [23:39] <snover> at the least, use ie8 in ie7 mode
# [23:39] <trave> heh, was just going down to the lowest common demoninator. but I
# [23:39] <trave> 'll track down some other vm images. :]
# [23:39] <snover> multiple ies is not a reliable testing mechanism and should not be used
# [23:40] <snover> especially if you are doing anything with VML
# [23:40] <trave> yea, was just trying to find the fastest solution.
# [23:40] <trave> thanks for the advice snover :D
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# [23:44] <trave> microsoft provides VHD images (for virtualPC) that "should" run on VirtualBox.. I just need to extract the self-extracting .exe ... which I can't from Mac. I gotta copy it through the VM shared folder I spose...
# [23:45] <BrianBlakely> If you have IE8, you have IE7
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# [23:54] <BrianBlakely> Hrmm, wasn't Chrome 9 supposed to come out this week?
# [23:54] <JKarsrud> The week isn't over? :)
# [23:55] <BrianBlakely> Haha, true. Monday was 6 weeks since the last release though
# [23:55] <grantg> fuck chrome's 6 week dev sched
# [23:55] <BrianBlakely> So I'm biting my nails
# [23:55] <BrianBlakely> I need a HIT
# [23:55] <grantg> They'll hit version 99 too soon. :P
# [23:56] <snover> grantg: how does that affect you in any way?
# [23:56] <grantg> BrianBlakely: Running out of weed? :P
# [23:56] <grantg> snover: not really in any way
# [23:57] <BrianBlakely> What's curious is that nothing about Chrome 11 has been mentioned
# [23:58] <Jayflux> didnt a chomr update only come out like 2 weeks ago
# [23:58] <BrianBlakely> No sir
# [23:58] <BrianBlakely> Beginning of Dec
# [23:58] <BrianBlakely> Usually the the experimental build stays 2 releases ahead of the stable
# [23:59] <grantg> I think it's a plot to release chrome 10 before IE9 comes out a a stable build
# [23:59] <Jayflux> no im sure it did
# [23:59] <grantg> To say10 > 9
# [23:59] <grantg> ;)
# [23:59] <Jayflux> Chrome update 10.0.634 2011-01-11
# [23:59] <grantg> yup
# [23:59] <BrianBlakely> Oh, I thought you meant stable
# Session Close: Thu Jan 20 00:00:00 2011

The end :)