/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-01-24 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Jan 24 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:00] <tw2113> this will be a decent resource chipotle http://diveintohtml5.org/
# [00:00] <tw2113> at least for the upcoming stuff
# [00:00] <tw2113> sitepoint does pretty decent with accurate info
# [00:00] <digitalfiz> i really like that site
# [00:01] <tw2113> alistapart.com is good
# [00:01] <digitalfiz> anothewr one i likes was http://slides.html5rocks.com/
# [00:01] <chipotle> tw2113: but don't i need an html4 background first? i have read some of that, and i can add a <video> tag here and there, but i don't know how to actually write a page of html/css
# [00:01] <digitalfiz> for a presentation anyways i taught me a lot
# [00:01] <tw2113> html5 is html4+some new features
# [00:02] <tw2113> http://htmldog.com/
# [00:02] <tw2113> avoid w3schools if you want to be allowed back in here :P
# [00:03] <thatryan> lol
# [00:03] <digitalfiz> i like w3schools...
# [00:03] <chipotle> yeah, i have heard bad things about w3schools
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# [00:03] <chipotle> tw2113: i know that, but diveintohtml5 only talks about the new talks, right?
# [00:04] <thatryan> someone ban digitalfiz :p
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# [00:04] <digitalfiz> lol i just kidding :P
# [00:04] <tw2113> thus why i said "[04:57pm] <tw2113> at least for the upcoming stuff"
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# [00:04] <tw2113> and later linked htmldg
# [00:04] <tw2113> dog*
# [00:05] <thatryan> ok i am starting my next project tonight...
# [00:05] <thatryan> html, the right way, for beginners
# [00:05] <tw2113> debugging your site for IE5?
# [00:05] <tw2113> ah
# [00:05] <thatryan> lol
# [00:05] <thatryan> fuck ie!
# [00:05] <thatryan> ;)
# [00:05] <tw2113> hey, if it gets you laid
# [00:06] <thatryan> hmmmm
# [00:06] <chipotle> tw2113: is it pretty normal for the html/css/php guy to work with a graphic designer who designs the site in photoshop? then the html/css/php guy (me) would take the design and transform it to work on the web (and whatever applications you are using)?
# [00:07] <tw2113> it's what i do
# [00:07] <thatryan> me too
# [00:07] <thatryan> so, yes :)
# [00:07] <tw2113> i'm often given PSD files to slice and make into WordPress themes
# [00:07] <cgcardona> yeah me 2
# [00:08] <tw2113> or for the smaller stuff, given a premade template to alter
# [00:08] <tw2113> once in a blue moon, given a drupal site to remake into a WordPress site
# [00:08] <tw2113> wait not drupal
# [00:08] <tw2113> joomla
# [00:09] <chipotle> how much time should i expect to dedicate to be able to take PSDs and slice into a drupal theme?
# [00:09] <tw2113> depends on how big the project is going to be
# [00:09] <thatryan> i do a lot of joomla too
# [00:09] <thatryan> never drupal though
# [00:09] <tw2113> and how complicated the mockup is
# [00:09] <thatryan> yet
# [00:09] <fiz_> and how good you are :P
# [00:09] <thatryan> and if it has to work in ie
# [00:09] <thatryan> :D
# [00:10] * fiz_ is now known as chromedFiz
# [00:10] <tw2113> i got a simple 2 page theme done in two days of work hours
# [00:10] <tw2113> so less than 16 hours for sure
# [00:10] <tw2113> IE working too
# [00:10] <thatryan> even your animated unicorn gifs worked?
# [00:10] <chipotle> well, i mean for beginning to learn html/css to be able to do this. should i expect in a month of studying html/css i can take a PSD and convert it to the web? or even less?
# [00:10] <tw2113> i don't use that plugin
# [00:11] <thatryan> lol
# [00:11] <tw2113> i have no way to calculate that chipotle
# [00:11] <thatryan> chipotle: it really very much depends... at first probably a week lol, bust some can be hours..
# [00:11] <tw2113> depends on how fast of a learner you are and other factors
# [00:12] <chipotle> so, possibly, in less than a week, i can have enough skills to take a PSD and slice into a theme that can be read in drupal/wordpress/whatever?
# [00:12] <chipotle> seems very quick!
# [00:12] <chipotle> i like to think i'm smart -- and i'm still a student, but classes start tomorrow
# [00:13] <chipotle> i'm asking now because i have to decide if i take 3 or 4 classes next semester, so i can spend enough time on web design/dev too
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# [00:13] <tw2113> with those two factors, give yourself some time
# [00:13] <Pewpewarrows> chipotle: http://code.google.com/edu/submissions/html-css-javascript/
# [00:13] <Pewpewarrows> watch all of those, and you'll have a good grasp of it
# [00:13] <Pewpewarrows> walks you through from the beginning
# [00:14] <tw2113> don't rush it, learn best practices, take your time to understand what you're doing
# [00:15] <thatryan> yeah, thats really the best advice
# [00:15] * Joins: Isowerk (Isowerk@5adc57b5.bb.sky.com)
# [00:15] <tw2113> don't be afraid to ask questions or for feedback
# [00:15] <Isowerk> Hello. Here is my latest experiment: http://www.isowerk.com/dev/ijs/minidungeon/
# [00:16] <chipotle> tw2113: i can ask you? :P
# [00:16] <thatryan> Isowerk: dude that is freaking badass
# [00:16] <Isowerk> hehe, thanks :)
# [00:17] <chromedFiz> Isowerk: that looks like zelda link to the past
# [00:17] <Isowerk> you can get more crap like this on www.isowerk.com
# [00:17] <chromedFiz> very nice
# [00:17] <chipotle> where do i learn "best practices"? when i was working on a wordpress blog, i realized how important best practices are... there were unlimited ways to do one thing. that's what i like about drupal: there are plenty of ways to do one thing, but usually only one "right" way
# [00:17] <chipotle> the only best practice for html/css that i know currently is "do not use tables"
# [00:17] <Pewpewarrows> chipotle: well, that's the hard part, you learn those over time
# [00:17] <thatryan> you can use tables, but only where appropriate, such as tabular data
# [00:17] <chipotle> wow, Pewpewarrows thank you!
# [00:18] <chromedFiz> yeah thats defnate the graphics from zelda link to the past my fav snes game of all time
# [00:18] <chipotle> jquery is a java script library, right? so i need to learn js before i learn jquery?
# [00:18] <Pewpewarrows> but generally any of the guys/gals in here can answer any questions you have about specific best practices
# [00:18] <chipotle> i have used a lot of jquery plugins already,a nd have done some light design (changing color, for instance)
# [00:18] <thatryan> NEED? no. SHOULD? yes.
# [00:18] <Pewpewarrows> chipotle: you don't have to, but it'll help you in the long ru
# [00:18] <chromedFiz> Isowerk: very ice work its like a link to the past sequal preview haha
# [00:18] <Isowerk> Jquery can very quickly get a massive mess if you don't learn proper javascript
# [00:18] <thatryan> and chipotle for javascript, go here. https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript
# [00:18] <Isowerk> thanks :)
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# [00:19] <chipotle> where is javascript used, when not using a library like jquery or dojo?
# [00:19] <Pewpewarrows> chipotle: imagine jumping into something like CakePHP cold without learning core PHP principles and quirks, that's a decent analogy
# [00:19] <Isowerk> There is only one and I repeat, only one book you must read. "Javascript The Definitive Guide" by David Flanagan. Published by O'Reilly and also know as 'Rhino'
# [00:20] <Isowerk> 99% of the other Javascript book will teach you bad practices
# [00:20] * tw2113 thinks chipotle has a healthy helping with learning the fundamentals of html/css at the moment
# [00:20] <Pewpewarrows> chipotle: you can have a website completely devoid of javascript (and you should actually make sure your site works with it disabled)
# [00:20] <thatryan> lol tw2113 ++
# [00:21] <Isowerk> chipotle: Javascript is the foundation on which the future of the web will be built.
# [00:21] <Pewpewarrows> but in a very general sense, browser-based Javascript is about finding elements of your page and manipulating them
# [00:21] <Isowerk> slowly but surely, prototype based languages (in this case ECMA) are taking over the world.
# [00:22] <Isowerk> HTML and CSS are only your container to tell data how to look
# [00:22] <chipotle> Isowerk: this one? it is from 2001... http://www.amazon.com/JavaScript-Definitive-Guide-David-Flanagan/dp/0596000480
# [00:22] <Isowerk> You want the fifth edition
# [00:23] <Isowerk> It has a fantastic chapter about classes, inheritance etc.
# [00:23] <Isowerk> 4th edition is outdated
# [00:23] <paul_irish> chipotle: starting out.. jquery is a good place to get started
# [00:24] <paul_irish> but you want to learn javascript along with jquery
# [00:24] <Isowerk> Building anything else than 'find this and replace it with that/make it snazzy' will end up in a huge mess. To understand jQuery you must know closures and 'namespaces'.
# [00:25] <Isowerk> you will save yourself a lot of tears if you just invest 3 days reading the first section of the book.
# [00:27] <chipotle> Isowerk: i think i may have that book as a pdf
# [00:27] <chromedFiz> to bad googles books doesnt have that book yet :/
# [00:27] <chipotle> so, can i reasonably expect to be able to take a PSD and turn into a drupal theme after a month of studying html/css/js?
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# [00:27] <Isowerk> chipotle: I can only recommend to read it. It's very well written and doesn't require you to do endless exercises.
# [00:28] <Isowerk> The first section is the most important one.
# [00:28] <tw2113> let the guy get html/css first, before diving him into javascript :P
# [00:28] <Isowerk> After one third of the book you are ready for jQuery.
# [00:28] <Pewpewarrows> chipotle: I'd think so, the hard part for me right now is actually the drupal side of things (I hate their theme development)
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# [00:28] <Pewpewarrows> but if you understand that already, then you should be able to do simple-medium cutups of PSDs in the nearish future
# [00:29] <Isowerk> Suddenly all this (){(){})}; will make sense :)
# [00:30] <Pewpewarrows> Isowerk: although I know that's harmless, it looks so similar to the bash fork bomb that it still causes me to shudder :P
# [00:31] <Isowerk> lol
# [00:31] <Isowerk> press ctrl+alt+delete+enter to bookmark this page :)
# [00:33] <tw2113> i'd take a shirt like this....if it wasn't $20 and from cafepress http://www.cafepress.com/espressive.503299980
# [00:34] <tw2113> extra fail! the photo of it with the model...has just a white teeshirt, not the stuff on the available shirt
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# [00:35] <Isowerk> here is a cheaper shirt: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DESIGN-YOUR-OWN-T-SHIRT-ANY-SIZE-S-XXL-USE-PHOTO'S-TEXT_W0QQitemZ180400739375QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=202313276802&rvr_id=202313276802&cguid=862362eb12d0a0e202c14e41ffdc52d0
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# [00:42] <chipotle> thanks :)
# [00:42] <chipotle> how difficult is wordpress themeing compared to drupal?
# [00:42] <Pewpewarrows> I find it a bit easier
# [00:42] <tw2113> probably not very
# [00:42] <Pewpewarrows> but I hate most CMS theme engines
# [00:42] <Pewpewarrows> so I'm biased
# [00:43] <chipotle> Pewpewarrows: what do you design in? frameworks?
# [00:43] <tw2113> just a matter of knowing what php functions to call in what areas for certain stuff
# [00:43] <tw2113> most of it is pretty straightforward though
# [00:43] <Pewpewarrows> chipotle: I use Python's Django framework
# [00:43] <chipotle> ah
# [00:44] <chipotle> Pewpewarrows: can i see some of your examples of sites you've done?
# [00:44] <Pewpewarrows> it's not a full-fledged CMS though
# [00:44] <Pewpewarrows> my personal site's almost done, I'll just send you that when it's live
# [00:44] <Pewpewarrows> w/ portfolio etc
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# [00:45] <Pewpewarrows> I'm assuming you'll be lounging around in this channel
# [00:45] <chipotle> yeah, i've been here for a few months :)
# [00:45] <tw2113> we're worth returning to
# [00:45] <chipotle> i know... i have worked with pylons a bit
# [00:45] <Pewpewarrows> pylons is nice, and pyramid (its successor) is really shaping up nicely
# [00:46] <chipotle> what is a typical charge to do freelance work for a US-based client for designing a new website (the frontend stuff)? both for the graphic designer and html/css/js guy
# [00:46] <chipotle> i'm located in boston, if that matters
# [00:46] <chipotle> Pewpewarrows: i worked with pylons rather than django because of its mature authentication system
# [00:46] <Pewpewarrows> chipotle: gotcha! and freelance prices range wildly
# [00:46] <tw2113> i know any freelance i've done in the past, has been done too inexpensively
# [00:47] <chipotle> my job that i resigned from paid $25/hr, but it wasn't really a contract job... i know we hired a freelancer to design the theme for about 4800 USD (at 100/hr)
# [00:47] <Pewpewarrows> you have amatures charging $20/hour, and professional firms doing $300+
# [00:47] <tw2113> the higher chargers, i assume are well worth the rate they get
# [00:48] <chipotle> hopefully
# [00:48] <chipotle> i've run into some *really* bad freelancers
# [00:48] <Pewpewarrows> yeah, you usually have to earn the right to charge that much, even if you know your shit
# [00:48] <chipotle> are there any good docs to read for people starting out in freelance, so they can learn how to write pitches and work with clients well?
# [00:48] <Pewpewarrows> references, portfolio, etc
# [00:49] <tw2113> freelanceswitch.com ?
# [00:49] <Pewpewarrows> chipotle: there's some good stuff posted on smashingmagazine's site
# [00:52] <thatryan> tw2113: you use textmate?
# [00:52] <tw2113> at work when on a mac
# [00:52] <tw2113> at home i'm on fedora linux, so gedit
# [00:52] <thatryan> cool then be friends with my new site :p http://textmateuser.com/
# [00:52] <thatryan> lol wanted something fun to do
# [00:53] <tw2113> added to evernote
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# [00:57] * antonkovalyov is in a food coma
# [00:58] <Pewpewarrows> food comas are the best
# [00:59] <tw2113> you're able to walk antonkovalyov ?
# [00:59] <antonkovalyov> tw2113, ya :-) actually the weather is so nice i walked around berkeley for like 20 minutes after the lunch
# [01:00] <tw2113> nice
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# [01:06] <cgcardona> ewww
# [01:07] <antonkovalyov> wtf gusy
# [01:07] <antonkovalyov> guys*
# [01:07] <tw2113> cgcardona did a lot of hiking
# [01:07] <tw2113> just helping out
# [01:07] <cgcardona> my feet are bloody nubs
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# [01:10] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, yt?
# [01:10] <tw2113> here you go cgcardona you'll like this http://www.rockpapersaddam.com/one.html
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# [01:13] <chromedFiz> i think rythmbox is trying to tell me to watch starwars it keeps playing the starwars ost and its on random and i have over 13k tracks loaded
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# [01:21] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov:
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# [01:23] <thatryan> paul_irish:
# [01:25] <chromedFiz> chromedFiz:
# [01:27] <thatryan> win
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# [01:36] <thatryan> paul_irish: 4 DAYS!
# [01:36] <thatryan> done yet? :D
# [01:37] <chromedFiz> 4 days?
# [01:37] <thatryan> talk on thursday
# [01:38] <paul_irish> oh thx for the reminder.
# [01:38] <thatryan> :;)
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# [03:25] <paul_irish> jacine: aroundddddddd ? :)
# [03:25] <jacine> paul_irish: hey :D
# [03:25] <paul_irish> nevermind! found it. :)
# [03:25] <jacine> haha :) ok.
# [03:27] <chromedFiz> paul_irish: you ever use coda?
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# [03:34] <tw2113> *runs away from jacine *
# [03:35] <jacine> tw2113: don't run ;)
# [03:35] <tw2113> but you're a girl!
# [03:35] <thatryan> tw2113: run away!
# [03:35] <jacine> hehe :)
# [03:35] * tw2113 hides behind his cootie shield know as thatryan
# [03:38] <thatryan> dude im not a shield!!!!
# [03:39] <tw2113> pffft
# [03:39] <tw2113> you look like one
# [03:39] <tw2113> you have this handle that looks like an arm
# [03:42] <tw2113> jk you two.... jacine doesn't have cooties
# [03:42] <tw2113> thatryan does though! *hides behind jacine*
# [03:42] <jacine> LOL
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# [03:42] <jacine> you guys are too much :)
# [03:45] <tw2113> ha, i forgot to bookmark my about.me site
# [03:45] <tw2113> not that i'm all that worried about it, now that i have michaelbeckwith.me
# [03:45] <tw2113> mmmmmmm domain control
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# [03:47] <thatryan> dinner time yay
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# [03:48] <chromedFiz> it aggrevates me that coda and textmate dont support tab indenting multiple selected lines
# [03:50] * svenlito is now known as svenlito_
# [03:51] <Pewpewarrows> chromedFiz: I find it hard to believe that an editor wouldn't support that
# [03:51] <chromedFiz> me too
# [03:51] <chromedFiz> you select multiple lines in coda or textmate and hit tab it erases the lines
# [03:51] <jacine> in textmate its: command + ]
# [03:51] <jacine> or [
# [03:51] <chromedFiz> its like back to notepad
# [03:51] <chromedFiz> ah
# [03:51] <chromedFiz> well way to switch things up textmate
# [03:52] <jacine> not sure about Coda.
# [03:52] <chromedFiz> ill try that technique in coda
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# [03:52] <chromedFiz> yup its that in coda
# [03:52] <jacine> :)
# [03:52] <chromedFiz> command + ] or [
# [03:52] <chromedFiz> thanks
# [03:52] <jacine> np
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# [03:53] <chromedFiz> gonna take some adjusting i hate when editors switch things up
# [03:54] <chromedFiz> wonder if coda supports html5 huhu
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# [04:09] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: \/
# [04:09] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, V?
# [04:09] <snover> antonkovalyov: you should really consider using something other than 2011-01 as the base for jshint; crock nuked a ton of stuff
# [04:09] <antonkovalyov> the fuck is that?
# [04:09] <snover> IT’S A DOWN ARROW
# [04:09] <snover> WOOOO
# [04:09] <snover> ASSCII
# [04:10] <paul_irish> ^
# [04:10] <antonkovalyov> ah
# [04:10] <antonkovalyov> snover, i use the latest
# [04:10] <nimbupani> paul_irish: push ur commits
# [04:10] <snover> antonkovalyov: he got rid of eqeqeq and now whenever you do for(var …) it won’t even continue past that point
# [04:10] <snover> like, it’s not just a warning that you have to fix, it’s an error, and it orders you to put all your vars at the top of the function and quits
# [04:11] <paul_irish> pshd nimbu
# [04:11] <antonkovalyov> https://github.com/jshint/jshint/commit/bab306261a415ca0e88a913944ec0583900b82e1
# [04:11] <antonkovalyov> snover, really? god damn he is insane
# [04:11] <antonkovalyov> gonna write a test for that real quick
# [04:12] <snover> antonkovalyov: https://github.com/jshint/jshint/blob/master/jshint.js#L4167
# [04:12] <nimbupani> thx paul
# [04:12] <antonkovalyov> CROCKFORD Y U INSANE!
# [04:12] <snover> he didn’t mention it in the edition notes
# [04:13] <snover> I tried to fix it but didn’t feel like spending a lot of time, got a little confused about why advance() wasn’t doing what I expected, went back to before 2011 and felt a lot better.
# [04:13] <snover> it’s a pretty huge change too
# [04:14] <snover> there used to be some function like vardeclare or something
# [04:14] <snover> he got rid of that
# [04:14] <antonkovalyov> i think he changed how he processes a tree or something
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# [04:16] <antonkovalyov> shiiit
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# [04:16] <antonkovalyov> gonna try something real quick and if it won't work
# [04:16] <antonkovalyov> will revert to the pre-2011 version
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# [04:24] <antonkovalyov> be back in an hour
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# [04:31] <chromedFiz> im counting down
# [04:35] <shichuan> counting down to what?
# [04:35] <chromedFiz> he said he would be back in an hour
# [04:35] <chromedFiz> just before your joined lol
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# [04:36] <shichuan> orh, i dont know who 'he' is, but i got it
# [04:38] <chromedFiz> antonkovalyov
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# [04:45] <tw2113> look out! http://twitpic.com/3sw00o
# [04:46] <chromedFiz> awww you look so cute in that little boys arms
# [04:46] <tw2113> i know
# [04:55] <serio_> you know what chrome needs? a way to show line numbers...
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# [04:58] <NiftyLettuce> paul_irish: would anything in boilerplate's .htaccess prevent this rewrite from working?... RewriteRule ^/sitemap\.xml$ /sitemap.php [NC]
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# [05:10] <paul_irish> no
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# [05:12] <serio_> heh, now that's a straight answer.
# [05:13] <serio_> n... o... mofo
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# [05:27] <NiftyLettuce> where the heck is php on linode
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# [05:28] <NiftyLettuce> oh dang wrong channel
# [05:28] <NiftyLettuce> ^.^
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# [05:35] <serio_> ^.^
# [05:35] <serio_> * HAITI (~j@unaffiliated/haiti) has joined #html5
# [05:35] <serio_> * mike5w3c has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [05:35] <serio_> NiftyLettuce :)
# [05:35] <serio_> woops!
# [05:35] <NiftyLettuce> serio_: ?..
# [05:35] <serio_> I messed up my copy/paste
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# [06:28] <antonkovalyov> snover, reverted to the 2010-12-16 and re-applied my changes
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# [06:46] <thatryan> anyone working on anything fun?
# [06:47] <antonkovalyov> jshint
# [06:47] <thatryan> hows that going
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# [06:49] <antonkovalyov> it's going
# [06:53] <Neiluj_> working on boring things, sorry...
# [06:53] <paul_irish> thatryan: hows your ruby
# [06:53] <antonkovalyov> oh god ruby
# [06:54] <thatryan> paul_irish: wish i could say it was awesome...
# [06:54] <chromedFiz> ruby is for jewelery only :P
# [06:54] <thatryan> lol but alas, it is not
# [06:55] <thatryan> paul_irish: what are you building?
# [06:55] <paul_irish> thatryan: https://github.com/paulirish/lazyweb-requests/issues#issue/25
# [06:57] <thatryan> paul_irish: oh nice.. damn wish I had any idea how to help lol
# [06:58] <antonkovalyov> should be failry easy
# [06:58] <paul_irish> bot-t: tell felcom hey man did you get somewhere with that chrome extension? just curious.. ^_^
# [06:58] <bot-t> paul_irish, Okay.
# [06:58] <paul_irish> thatryan: it doesnt look that bad. i dont know ruby but its basically hacking the fuck out of schacon's ruby
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# [07:02] <shichuan> i have been trying to use pcapperf with efws for an upcoming mobile project
# [07:03] <thatryan> paul_irish: I started coding in C++, before i fell in love with web. so im sure I could figure something out :)
# [07:03] <paul_irish> give it a try dude.
# [07:03] <Pewpewarrows> paul_irish: that'd be a sexy util to have
# [07:04] <paul_irish> Pewpewarrows: that's what i;m sayin
# [07:04] <paul_irish> Pewpewarrows: how you feelin about guillotine
# [07:05] <Pewpewarrows> still need to fix the encoding issues, and I want it to show side by side diffs w/ line nos eventually
# [07:05] <Pewpewarrows> but not bad for an afternoon on my first chrome extension ^^
# [07:05] <thatryan> paul_irish: will do, ill check it out shortly, updating my textmate site :)
# [07:11] <paul_irish> Pewpewarrows: agreed!
# [07:11] * antonkovalyov just realized that he missed no doubt show in mountain view in '09. fuuuuuuuuu
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# [07:33] <chromedFiz> vkhvbln;mlnlvbj .m,m.kl;l'
# [07:35] <paul_irish> chromedFiz: ?
# [07:35] <chromedFiz> cat thought the keyboard was a good place to lay lol
# [07:36] <chromedFiz> i didnt notice he actually typed something
# [07:36] <paul_irish> sure sure
# [07:36] <Neiluj_> chromedFiz: do you have a laptop ?
# [07:37] <chromedFiz> netbook
# [07:37] <Neiluj_> cats love to sit on the keyboard because it's warm ;)
# [07:37] <chromedFiz> one of the google cr48 pilots the keys get pretty warm and he loves it lol
# [07:38] <chromedFiz> he sleeps behind it most of the time
# [07:38] <Neiluj_> damn I didn't see how much the cr48 looks like a macbook o_O
# [07:38] <chromedFiz> its very sexy
# [07:39] <chromedFiz> its like jet black and plain
# [07:39] <Neiluj_> I mean when the macbook was black, I sold the one I had
# [07:40] <chromedFiz> it could use some more power but for free im not complaining :P
# [07:41] <Neiluj_> I'm surprised Jobs didn't have a heart attack when looking at it O_o
# [07:41] <Neiluj_> it is so close...
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# [07:42] <Neiluj_> especially the keyboard, damn...
# [07:43] <chromedFiz> i like the keyboard
# [07:43] <chromedFiz> i miss my delete key but its pretty cool the replacements
# [07:43] <Neiluj_> hehe I like it to ;) I mean I like my apple's BT one :D
# [07:45] <Neiluj_> 12" is a cool screen size, I remember when I had this iBook, it didn't have the same resolution but it was big enough
# [07:45] <chromedFiz> yeah this screen is niiiice
# [07:46] <chromedFiz> i think my only struggle is ive always been a desktop person
# [07:46] <chromedFiz> so ive always had plenty of power
# [07:47] <chromedFiz> so using this thing is a sturggle
# [07:47] <chromedFiz> but its forcing me to think differently and work differently
# [07:47] <chromedFiz> web app only is a hard path to take
# [07:48] <Neiluj_> mmh I understand
# [07:49] <chromedFiz> but it is the future and i wanna be someone who builds it not is just trying to keep up hehe
# [07:51] <Neiluj_> you know, something I dislike with web app it's they're running into "the" browser
# [07:51] <Neiluj_> do you know "fluid" ?
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# [07:51] <Neiluj_> it's a SSB, site specific browser, http://fluidapp.com/
# [07:51] <Neiluj_> it can turn any website or webapp into a stand-alone desktop app
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# [07:52] <chromedFiz> ive played with fluid before
# [07:52] <Neiluj_> it's really nice
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# [07:56] <thatryan> paul_irish: you in the hizzle?
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# [07:59] <paul_irish> here
# [08:01] <thatryan> you use textmate right?
# [08:02] <chromedFiz> gnight cruel world...
# [08:03] <thatryan> night yo
# [08:03] <shichuan> i hope there is a textmate for windows
# [08:03] <thatryan> you mean eventually?
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# [08:05] <Neiluj_> "TextMate remains exclusive for the Mac, and that is how we like it"
# [08:05] <thatryan> word :)
# [08:06] <shichuan> arh i see, means no equivalent for windows
# [08:06] <thatryan> nah not really
# [08:06] <thatryan> but its worth switching to mac for :D
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# [08:06] <shichuan> windows 7 is not that bad
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# [08:07] <thatryan> well if any of you use textmate, check out my new site i made for it. should be fun :) http://textmateuser.com/
# [08:11] <NiftyLettuce> ewww textmate
# [08:11] <NiftyLettuce> linux ftw
# [08:11] <NiftyLettuce> paul_irish: im excited to see what happens to H264
# [08:13] <thatryan> :(
# [08:13] <Neiluj_> thatryan: cant help you, coda ftw :D
# [08:14] <thatryan> lol
# [08:14] <NiftyLettuce> thatryan: gedit ftw
# [08:14] <thatryan> BOOOOO
# [08:14] <thatryan> TM4LIFE :p
# [08:14] <NiftyLettuce> mac too expensive
# [08:14] <Neiluj_> linux to ugly
# [08:15] <Neiluj_> too*
# [08:15] <NiftyLettuce> i could build a mac for 1/2 price and put h@cl<int0sh on it
# [08:15] <NiftyLettuce> Neiluj_: http://maketecheasier.com/turn-your-ubuntu-hardy-to-mac-osx-leopard/2008/07/23
# [08:15] <thatryan> ok so i am the only one who uses tm? weirdddddd
# [08:15] <Neiluj_> thatryan: you're far from alone ;)
# [08:16] <Neiluj_> paul_irish and a bunch of others are afaik
# [08:16] <thatryan> ?fpi
# [08:16] <bot-t> fucking paul irish! http://i.imgur.com/gpspl.png
# [08:16] <thatryan> lol yay bot
# [08:18] <Neiluj_> NiftyLettuce: would you make your own jam each time you want to eat some ?
# [08:19] <NiftyLettuce> Neiluj_: ...
# [08:19] <NiftyLettuce> chao guys im out
# [08:19] <NiftyLettuce> \o
# [08:19] <Neiluj_> o/
# [08:19] <Neiluj_> ;)
# [08:19] <thatryan> peace
# [08:19] <NiftyLettuce> Neiluj_: ;)
# [08:19] <NiftyLettuce> thatryan: l8r
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# [08:19] <NiftyLettuce> oh forgot...
# [08:20] <NiftyLettuce> paul_irish: hot pink over and out~
# [08:20] <shichuan> Steve Jobs said a lot of wrong things about Flash
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# [08:20] <Neiluj_> shichuan: what? that's impossible ! :D
# [08:20] <shichuan> ActionScript can be compiled using free SDK, and it's ECMAScript
# [08:21] <shichuan> i am not sure how you define open source
# [08:21] <Neiluj_> Flash is not only ActionScript
# [08:21] <shichuan> but anyone can use it without paying for the IDE
# [08:21] <shichuan> i know
# [08:21] <shichuan> but why apple bans swf?
# [08:21] <shichuan> why cant run flash movie?
# [08:21] <Neiluj_> here we go again :)
# [08:22] <shichuan> u can compile a flash movie using the free sdk
# [08:22] <Neiluj_> it costs too much on battery life
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# [08:22] <shichuan> so i think there is nothing wrong with chrome,ff chosen flash over h264
# [08:23] <Neiluj_> why compile a flash movie ? o_O that's weird
# [08:23] <Neiluj_> chrome & ff chose theora & webm, not flash
# [08:24] <Neiluj_> and flash can play h264 btw...
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# [08:27] <Neiluj_> shichuan: if you look closely, there's nothing flash can do html5 can't when it comes to mobile uses
# [08:28] <shichuan> sry i am a bit confused with the recent news. i normally use the new flash video f4v for dynamic streaming, i know it's in h264
# [08:28] <Neiluj_> "maybe" on desktop, but the main advantage of flash is not what it can do, it's its IDE
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# [08:29] <shichuan> did google announce something like they wont support h264 in chrome anymore?
# [08:29] <Neiluj_> h264 via html5's <video>, yes, but it will still work with flash
# [08:30] <shichuan> arh, now it's all clear
# [08:30] <Neiluj_> ;)
# [08:30] <shichuan> thanks :)
# [08:30] <shichuan> that's strange, why chrome is fine with h264 in flash, but not in html5?
# [08:31] <Neiluj_> what is the container ?
# [08:31] <Neiluj_> mp4 ?
# [08:31] <shichuan> yea, f4v is mp4
# [08:31] <Neiluj_> ops, misread
# [08:32] <Neiluj_> why chrome is fine with h264 in flash -> chrome doesnt care about what flash does
# [08:33] <Neiluj_> chrome doesn't support h264, flash is a plugin who does but believe me, h264 is not more fluid outside of flash...
# [08:33] <Neiluj_> sirry
# [08:33] <Neiluj_> is more fluid
# [08:34] <shichuan> one reason i use h264 with flash is that the client wants to secure the content
# [08:34] <shichuan> i am not sure if u know flash media server
# [08:35] <shichuan> basically it secures the content so people can't donwload the video
# [08:35] <Neiluj_> btw, f4v is not exactly the same as mp4 afaik, f4v uses mp3 when mp4 uses AAC, but I'm not sure
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# [08:36] <Neiluj_> well, I'm not expert but imo, h264 or not, security is a server-side matter
# [08:37] <Neiluj_> I don't really see why it involves the codec
# [08:38] <Neiluj_> even if it turns inside flash, I'm pretty sure I can identify what is downloaded by my browser, so I can download the source
# [08:39] <Neiluj_> if it *runs* ..
# [08:41] <shichuan> for savvy users, i am sure there is a way, but for normal user, may not be easy to download.
# [08:41] <shichuan> actually i am thinking to use flash as a component for a website is ok
# [08:41] <Neiluj_> sure
# [08:42] <shichuan> as long as dont use it to build the entire site
# [08:42] <shichuan> which is really really slow
# [08:42] <Neiluj_> and not really really useful :)
# [08:42] <shichuan> yea :)
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# [09:40] <grantg> WTF? I'm here thru mobile safari?
# [09:40] <grantg> I don't even...
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# [10:09] <pluma> What does #html5 think about the ongoing W3C/WHATWG "HTML5" brand drama and all the "HTML5 != CSS3" (and such) activism?
# [10:11] <pluma> Personally, I couldn't care less. WHAT WG officially abandoned the term, so it's perfectly legitimate for W3C to use it as a standards buzzword for the full stack. Those who can't tell the difference don't care about it either, but it makes me smile when clients demand their new website is to use HTML5.
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# [10:37] <mike5w3c> http://blog.gingertech.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/LCA_MM_AVProc2011/#slide1
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# [10:37] <mike5w3c> good presentation
# [10:37] <mike5w3c> this too:
# [10:37] <mike5w3c> http://blog.gingertech.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/LCA_MM_VA11Y2011/#slide1
# [10:38] <mike5w3c> hmm, that's pretty short
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# [12:08] <mikesusz> in the spirit of mr. irish, i'm tempted to build a website called how f'ing cold is it
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# [12:59] <hangfromthefloor> How can I rotate text in HTML canvas "in-place"?
# [12:59] <hangfromthefloor> Or, what series of context.rotate() and context.translate() calls will do it?
# [13:00] <hangfromthefloor> I'm trying to draw text at e.g. the point (x,y) rotated by θ°
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# [14:24] <Drule> http://astrojone.net/
# [14:25] <Drule> I used a HTML contact form by html5doctor, but for some reason the objects keep lining up as if they were floated.
# [14:25] <Drule> Anyone see anything wrong in the HTML or CSS?
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# [14:46] <jetienne> what is the status of websocket ? are they fixed ? a security issue was causing trouble not so long ago
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# [15:00] <seekshiva> is there a way by which i can manipulate an svg image from a html page?
# [15:03] <seekshiva> anyone there?
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# [15:15] <seekshiva> anyone there?
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# [15:31] <miketaylr> later
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# [16:15] <teedeeoh> is localStorage persistant across sessions?
# [16:15] <teedeeoh> if I was to store something in localstorage, would it remain when the browser is restarted?
# [16:16] <plh_> yep
# [16:16] <teedeeoh> plh: thanks.
# [16:17] <shichuan> tat's why there is a session storage and local storage
# [16:22] <Michael> why is that?
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# [16:24] <shichuan> why is what? why there is a session storage and local storage? cos session storage stores data for only one session, and local storage has no time limit.
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# [16:25] <Michael> shichuan, thanks, public log++
# [16:26] <shichuan> :)
# [16:27] <Michael> Does anyone use "use strict" in their JS?
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# [16:33] <shichuan> i thought you can only use it on a few browsers??
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# [16:37] <Michael> yeah
# [16:37] <Michael> not sure which
# [16:37] <miketaylr> in theory it's backwards compatible
# [16:37] <Michael> Supposed to be a NOP I believe
# [16:37] <Michael> In unsupported browsers
# [16:38] <miketaylr> right, eich talked about why it's not a great idea
# [16:38] <miketaylr> one sec
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# [16:38] <shichuan> http://kangax.github.com/es5-compat-table/
# [16:38] <Michael> I suppose because if you're testing in a browser that doesn't support it then you could potentially break everything when you finally do
# [16:38] <Michael> thanks
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# [16:39] <Michael> Hmm not supported in chrome
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# [16:39] <miketaylr> blargh, http://www.aminutewithbrendan.com/ is down
# [16:39] <shichuan> no, only in ff and webkit
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# [16:39] <Michael> yeah intersting
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# [16:45] <shichuan> paul_irish, is chrome going to support 'use strict'?
# [16:45] <paul_irish> at some point yes.
# [16:46] <Michael> Hmm canary does not
# [16:47] <Michael> I'm bored. Maybe I'll take some blender courses on lynda.com
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# [17:21] <felcom> So say I want to learn how to set up my own web server, anyone have helpful links?
# [17:21] <bot-t> (10 hours 20 mins ago) <paul_irish> tell felcom hey man did you get somewhere with that chrome extension? just curious.. ^_^
# [17:23] <Evet> felcom: libevent has http module
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# [17:39] <jetienne> what is the status of websocket ? are they fixed ? a security issue was causing trouble not so long ago
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# [17:43] <miketaylr> jetienne: they're working on it, Opera and FF4b disabled them, Chrome will upgrade...IE has a plugin
# [17:44] <jetienne> miketaylr: ok thanks
# [17:45] <miketaylr> but Opera and FF can turn them on as well
# [17:45] <miketaylr> via a user pref
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# [17:45] <kvnn> Can anyone help me with this error when trying to set currentTime on a <video> in chrome? INDEX_SIZE_ERR: DOM Exception 1
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# [17:51] <miketaylr> kvnn: is it a negative number?
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# [17:54] <codepo8> God colloquy needs a "don
# [17:54] <codepo8> 't play any friggin sounds button"
# [17:55] <nimbupani> you can use adium codepo8
# [17:55] <JKarsrud> codepo8: yeah, adium kicks colloquy's ass imo
# [17:56] <tw2113> adium is what i use on occasion when i need any IM besides skype
# [17:56] <tw2113> at least on the work computer
# [18:00] <danielfilho> I use colloquy, don't like adium for irc.
# [18:00] <danielfilho> but mine don't make any sound
# [18:00] <tw2113> for irc, i use xchat aqua
# [18:00] <tw2113> ahh my theme song..."I'm Going Slightly Mad" by QUeen
# [18:01] <JKarsrud> danielfilho: why not adium for IRC?
# [18:01] <JKarsrud> too IM'y for you?
# [18:01] <danielfilho> JKarsrud: maybe that. I just use colloquy for a long time.
# [18:02] <danielfilho> but today I'm without headphones. left them on my backpack from campus party.
# [18:02] <Michael> Whate would you do if you found a resume` in a stack that was a slightly longer piece of paper?
# [18:02] <Michael> obviously making it stand out literally
# [18:02] <miketaylr> BURN IT WITH FIRE
# [18:02] <Michael> Would you give kudos to the person who did that, or?
# [18:02] <Michael> seriously.
# [18:02] <danielfilho> BURN IT WITH FIRE [2]
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# [18:02] <Michael> Not gonna burn stuff in the office.
# [18:02] <Michael> okay n/m
# [18:02] <miketaylr> heh, jk Michael
# [18:02] <Michael> I know :P
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# [18:03] <miketaylr> someone did that?
# [18:03] <miketaylr> interesting...
# [18:03] <Michael> No but I suggested it to my wife lol
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# [18:03] <miketaylr> heh, i'd catch my attention for sure
# [18:03] <cheilmann> oh cool
# [18:03] <Michael> but I thought I'd get some feedback
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# [18:03] <codepo8> vid.ly is still converting
# [18:03] <danielfilho> Michael: put it on the water. Then make a ball and throw on the ceiling
# [18:04] <Michael> true.
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# [18:05] <Evet> so which audio format is suitable for both flash and <audio> tag?
# [18:05] <Michael> Depends
# [18:06] <Michael> FF expects ogg I believe
# [18:06] <JKarsrud> WAV!
# [18:06] <Michael> And webkit uses mp3
# [18:06] <codepo8> eeek
# [18:06] <JKarsrud> hah
# [18:06] <codepo8> JKarsrud: sadly you are right
# [18:06] <codepo8> :)
# [18:06] <Michael> http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/html-css-techniques/quick-tip-the-html-5-audio-element/
# [18:06] <codepo8> OGG and MP3 should work in all
# [18:06] <chromedFiz> yes both should work
# [18:06] <Michael> Yeah it's not like a huge workaround
# [18:06] <kvnn> miketaylr : No, I'm using for instance '20.0' as a test
# [18:06] <Michael> codepo8, You mean the combination should cover all browsers?
# [18:07] <miketaylr> kvnn: odd, does 20 throw?
# [18:07] <codepo8> Evet: if you upload your audio to archive.org they convert them automatically.
# [18:07] <kvnn> miketaylr : yes
# [18:07] <Evet> codepo8: i dont
# [18:07] <miketaylr> funky
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# [18:07] <kvnn> miketaylr : I can even get 'currentTime' from the video, which will show something like 5.32456, and put it back into currentTime, and it throws the error
# [18:07] <kvnn> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3165444/html5-video-chrome-error-settings-currenttime
# [18:08] <codepo8> Evet - then get audacity (freeware, across platforms) - converts to whatever you need
# [18:08] <kvnn> see that ^^ . sibvic's solution does not work, btw.
# [18:08] <Michael> That's a paul_irish easter egg
# [18:08] <Evet> codepo8: in fact, i will generate audio file on fly
# [18:08] <miketaylr> kvnn: yeah, maybe paul_irish will have an idea...or know of an existing bug
# [18:09] <chromedFiz> jplayer is what i use to automticly detect if flash or <audio> can be used it works well for mp3's
# [18:09] <miketaylr> might search crbug.com first
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# [18:09] <codepo8> I don't get the 8 bit avatar stuff - I remember when chats looked like that
# [18:09] <Michael> Remember Comic Chat?
# [18:09] <codepo8> yeah
# [18:09] * codepo8 is now known as appears
# [18:09] <_3Vince_> now I'm trying to forget it again :(
# [18:09] <Michael> lol
# [18:10] <Evet> chromedFiz: excellent!
# [18:10] <appears> I remember kicking people from #html on ircnet for using it
# [18:10] <appears> :)
# [18:10] <Michael> Is BitchX still around?
# [18:10] <Michael> lol yeah it put all those weird chars
# [18:10] <_3Vince_> I think BitchX is still around
# [18:10] <chromedFiz> it is
# [18:10] <_3Vince_> hell, I used ircii a few weeks back :P
# [18:10] <appears> I told you not to call Paul that in public
# [18:10] <chromedFiz> but its massively overshadowed by irssi :P
# [18:10] <danielfilho> out for lunch, be back later :D
# [18:11] <Michael> yeah that's what I figured
# [18:11] <Michael> BitchX2 is the current project. While there is no current release to the public
# [18:11] <Michael> on the new code base, the project is leaning towards merging back
# [18:11] <Michael> to the current base version of Epic
# [18:11] <Michael> Hmm so maybe it will be gone soon
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# [18:12] <Evet> chromedFiz: it detects browser automatically, right?
# [18:12] <chromedFiz> it detects capibility
# [18:12] <chromedFiz> it it can use <audio> it will otherwise it uses a built in flash player it comes with
# [18:13] <chromedFiz> it checks
# [18:13] <Evet> i really like this kind of stuff
# [18:13] <Evet> try html5, fallback flash
# [18:13] <chromedFiz> yeah
# [18:13] * _3Vince_ slaps appears around a bit with a large trout
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# [18:17] <Evet> socket.io, jplayer
# [18:17] <Evet> what else i can add to this list?
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# [18:18] <kvnn> how do I set an html <video> as seekable? I see http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/video.html#dom-media-seekable, but without an example I don't understand what a TimeRanges object is.
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# [18:19] <kvnn> I think thats my issue in chrome. The default seekbar (controls) does not allow me to seek to different parts of the video.
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# [18:25] <kvnn> miketaylr : Aha. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4538810/html5-video-element-non-seekable-when-using-django-development-server
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# [18:25] <miketaylr> hmm interesting
# [18:25] <miketaylr> you using django?
# [18:25] <kvnn> yes
# [18:25] <kvnn> its not an html5 or chrome issue at all, if this is true
# [18:25] <miketaylr> good find
# [18:26] <miketaylr> yes, appears to be a server issue
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# [18:32] <Pewpewarrows> I never trust the dev server
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# [18:34] <Michael> interesting
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# [18:47] <Michael> So here's a scenario
# [18:47] <Michael> You are using JS + static images to emulate a rotating 3D model
# [18:47] <Michael> Is there a method that does not require you to have the background image as part each of the static images?
# [18:48] <Michael> Like instead of using absolute positioning and including the background image, is there some trick to avoid that?
# [18:48] <Michael> Cause that makes the sprite so much bigger
# [18:49] <Michael> without a solid background I don't see a solution, but figured I would ask
# [18:50] <appears> webGL?
# [18:50] <appears> :)
# [18:50] * appears is now known as codepo8
# [18:50] <Michael> That's what I am working on personally but sshhh
# [18:50] <Michael> Still trying to figure out how to animate collada models
# [18:50] <codepo8> Matrix transitions?
# [18:51] * Michael wikipedias
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# [18:51] <Michael> no idea how that would apply lol
# [18:51] <Michael> kind of beyond me
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# [18:52] <Michael> oh I didn't describe the reason for this to begin with
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# [18:53] <Michael> The model is simply the light aspects of the object displaying - so we shine a background color through to change the color of the 'model'
# [18:53] <Michael> And if we didn't have the background image as part of each frame in the sprite, it would just be a big colored square
# [18:54] <ben_c> Michael, If you're willing to go webkit only you can do it eaaaasily: http://webkit.org/blog-files/3d-transforms/morphing-cubes.html
# [18:54] <Michael> FF, Chrome, Safari, IE9 :/
# [18:54] * Michael reads up
# [18:54] <Michael> Looks like a negative scaleX
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# [18:55] <codepo8> Interesting - so that is how vid.ly videos will be embedded: http://m.vid.ly/js/html5.js
# [18:56] <Michael> Who runs vid.ly?
# [18:56] <codepo8> encoding.com
# [18:56] <Michael> oh duh
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# [19:01] <Michael> hmm vid.ly seems pretty cool
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# [19:06] <miketaylr> lol @ this.hasQiucktime()
# [19:08] <miketaylr> why all the UA sniffing for quicktime? isn't that exposed via navigator.plugins?
# [19:08] <danielfilho> HAHAHA
# [19:08] <miketaylr> sorry, "Qiucktime"
# [19:09] <danielfilho> Qiucktime. Maybe for copyrighted problems. NOT!
# [19:09] <miketaylr> heh
# [19:10] <miketaylr> codepo8: can FF play quicktime media with the plugin?
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# [19:12] <codepo8> works here, yes
# [19:12] <chromedFiz> on windows
# [19:12] <codepo8> but why oh why would you?
# [19:14] <miketaylr> no idea, just looking at that script you pasted
# [19:14] <chromedFiz> xvid ftw
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# [19:26] <Evet> what are your desired jsonp services?
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# [19:32] <techrush> what are the downsides to @font-face ?
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# [19:33] <shepazu> techrush: in firefox, it gives you the FOUT (flash of unstyled text)
# [19:33] <techrush> yeah im noticing that
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# [19:33] <techrush> also noticing ie8 isnt loading my .ttf at all ...i need the font in another format for ie8 correct ?
# [19:34] <shepazu> .eot
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# [19:34] <shepazu> techrush: there are gazillions of great article out there for using @font-face gracefully
# [19:35] <techrush> ok thanks
# [19:35] <shepazu> * articles
# [19:36] <shepazu> paul_irish, nimbupani: I have an answer for someone who left the channel before I arrived... can I leave them a message via bot?
# [19:37] <nimbupani> yes shepazu
# [19:37] <nimbupani> ?tell <nick>
# [19:37] <bot-t> nimbupani, Syntax: tell <nick> <message>
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# [19:46] <paul_irish> ?g font face generator squirrel @ techrush
# [19:46] <bot-t> techrush, Font Squirrel | Create Your Own @font-face Kits - http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fontface/generator
# [19:47] <techrush> thanks dude
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# [19:49] <JonathanNeal> So http://www.w3.org/html/logo/ eh? I probably missed all the hoopla.
# [19:49] <mikesusz> new oatmeal. dying.
# [19:50] <mikesusz> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/state_web_winter i think i like the html4 logo.
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# [19:53] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: hoopla missed.
# [19:55] <JonathanNeal> Yea.
# [19:57] <nimbupani> you missed nothing JonathanNeal
# [19:57] <danielfilho> http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/state_web_winter/html.jpg
# [19:57] <danielfilho> amazing.
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# [20:01] <paul_irish> shadow dom webkit dependency tree https://bugs.webkit.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=52962&hide_resolved=0
# [20:08] <JonathanNeal> or amazon s3
# [20:08] <JonathanNeal> how you prevade everything
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# [20:18] <pluma> danielfilho: I call BS on the Netflix claim. The US != all of the Internet.
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# [20:19] <danielfilho> whüt?
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# [20:19] <Michael> what netflix claim?
# [20:19] <JonathanNeal> ck editor, welcome to the party, http://dev.ckeditor.com/ticket/4556#comment:4
# [20:20] <pluma> The Oatmeal comic claims Netflix makes up for 20% of Internet traffic at peak hours.
# [20:20] <pluma> Oh, wait, that was mikesusz. You only linked the html part.
# [20:21] <miketaylr> most americans stream HD stuff on netflix all night long to warm their homes
# [20:21] <miketaylr> true story.
# [20:22] <pluma> Oh, in that case...
# [20:22] <shepazu> thanks, nimbupani
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# [20:24] <danielfilho> HAHAHAHAHA! Great, miketaylr
# [20:24] <pluma> Anyway. Why do all major music labels boykott Germany on YouTube? We're seriously the odd ones out. Even Sony BMG doesn't allow their music videos to be seen by us.
# [20:26] <pluma> Also, how long can it possibly take to introduce TiVo? I want that now.
# [20:26] <pluma> ... damn backwater country ...
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# [20:29] <pluma> Anyway. What _is_ #html5's opinion on the HTML5 brand drama?
# [20:30] <Michael> lol netflix hates the internets
# [20:30] <pluma> i.e. do you consider the decision to create a logo for "HTML5" (including unrelated technologies) a good thing or bad?
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# [20:32] <danielfilho> Or they just turn on black ops on ps3 AND x360 simultaneously to warm the whole city (sorry, didn't hit the enter)
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# [20:35] <dgathright> pluma: Think the HTML5 logo is good, but the W3C's decision to use it as an all-encompassing term is bad. Not a huge deal though. I like the decision to drop versioning from HTML, cause that always seemed silly to me.
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# [20:36] <pluma> dgathright: I like that the dropping of the versioning is now official. I think this solves some of the problems with the ambiguity behind "HTML5". Because of this, I don't mind that the W3C is now using the popular (i.e. incorrect) definition of HTML5.
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# [20:37] <pluma> dgathright: Granted, I'd been happier if the term for "new cool stuff you can do with web standards" weren't a pars-pro-toto thing, but I take what I can get. It's better than AJAX or... DHTML...
# [20:38] <shepazu> dgathright: that was largely a misunderstanding (albeit due to poor wording in the FAQ)... the HTML5 logo wasn't meant to represent anything other than HTML5... the HTML5 logo + technology icons was... it was the "identity system" that included SVG, CSS3, WOFF, etc.
# [20:38] <shepazu> and anyway, that's now been corrected: http://www.w3.org/html/logo/faq.html
# [20:39] <pluma> shepazu: Ah. Good to know.
# [20:39] <shepazu> so, http://www.w3.org/html/logo/badge/html5-badge-h-css3-semantics.png stands for HTML5 + semantics + CSS3
# [20:40] <pluma> shepazu: The "HTML5 is the new Web 2.0" mentality is still widespread. And I don't mind anymore.
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# [20:41] <shepazu> I don't mind either, I just want to be clear that W3C isn't perpetuating that.... though we are happy to jump on the bandwagon of the buzzword, if it gets people excited about the current wave of Open Web Platform implementation and content
# [20:44] <pluma> shepazu: Sure. If the buzzword gets suits to embrace web standards, I consider that a good thing. They don't have to care about the correct terminology. They just need something fancy with a label to it.
# [20:45] <shepazu> yup
# [20:45] <pluma> I really like the graphical style of the badges, btw. Nice work.
# [20:45] <pluma> Very anime-ish, actually.
# [20:45] <shepazu> that was all the designers at Ocupop
# [20:45] <shepazu> I like it fine, myself
# [20:46] <pluma> At least for the column design.
# [20:46] <plh_> indeed, we didn't do the design so don't thank us for that. but you can certainly feel free to blame for it if you feel like it :)
# [20:46] <plh_> s/blame/blame us/
# [20:48] <pluma> Wait... there are actually people who work for the W3C? I thought it was just a collaboration of various companies and inidividuals?
# [20:49] <shepazu> pluma: there are a small number of paid staff, some technical, some administrative
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# [20:49] <pluma> What does the W3C technical stuff do? Just website maintenance and infrastructure?
# [20:49] <shepazu> no, that's the IT staff
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# [20:50] <shepazu> the technical staff does lots of stuff, including technical reviews, and even writing or editing specs (I do that myself)
# [20:51] <pluma> shepazu: Interesting. I heard about a friend-of-a-friend working for the W3C from their basement. Allegedly it's the local HQ.
# [20:51] <pluma> (friend of a coworker of my fiancée, actually)
# [20:51] <plh_> no no, the legend puts us in an ivory tower, full of diamonds and gold
# [20:52] <pluma> So what is it that you do for a living working as technical staff for the W3C?
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# [20:52] <pluma> I don't suppose the W3C has much of a need for web developers?
# [20:53] <pluma> (I don't mean to come across as offensive, I'm quite curious actually)
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# [20:53] <plh_> pluma, the technical staff is participating in working groups. we're there to help the work stay on track, help the group through the w3c process
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# [20:54] <plh_> coordinate between various groups
# [20:54] <pluma> Ah, okay.
# [20:54] <plh_> identify needs, coordination issues, try to get the right players around the table,
# [20:54] <plh_> do outreach
# [20:54] <pluma> So just coordination. All theory, no play?
# [20:55] <plh_> well, some of us like to play as well
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# [20:55] <pluma> I mean practical application of web technologies ;)
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# [20:56] <plh_> we don't do products per say, so not sure what you mean by practical
# [20:56] <plh_> but we try to write code some time to time
# [20:56] <pluma> eep. Pet peeve of mine. It's "per se".
# [20:56] <plh_> thx
# [20:56] <pluma> Interesting nevertheless.
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# [20:57] <pluma> Hm... I guess it wouldn't be quite up my alley then.
# [20:57] <plh_> well, if you like pure code and don't like the politic associated in creating a standard, you're right
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# [20:59] <pluma> Well, I've always been interested in web standards. I began reading W3C specs at age 15 (as a non-native speaker no less). But I don't really see myself as a project manager.
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# [21:00] <pluma> I guess I prefer staying a fanboy rather than applying for the team.
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# [21:01] <pluma> But, yeah, more power to you. Fight the good fight.
# [21:02] <plh_> well, it depends on your definition of "good" I guess
# [21:04] <pluma> Well, you can only do so much.
# [21:04] <Evet> is websockets feature secure for private content?
# [21:05] <pluma> I was actually quite invested in XHTML for a while. I was looking forward to XHTML 2. It's a shame XHTML clashes with reality this hard, but I think HTML (5) is a good direction.
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# [21:05] <plh_> XHTML and XHTML 2 are two different thing in my mind
# [21:06] <pluma> I agree, but I was really looking forward to it.
# [21:06] <franksalim> Evet, using WebSocket with the wss:// scheme indicates an encrypted connection. Is that what you mean?
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# [21:06] <pluma> The problem was, of course, backwards incompatibility. It was a bit too radical.
# [21:06] <JonathanNeal> Hello everyone!
# [21:06] <Evet> franksalim: i mean, XSS
# [21:06] * JonathanNeal sends a little love to everybody.
# [21:06] <paul_irish> g'day
# [21:07] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish, are there ways to specify a different font face for a bold version of a font?
# [21:07] <pluma> And HTML (5) overcame a lot of the problems by just abandoning the pseudo-SGML roots and sprinkling fairy dust over it.
# [21:07] <JonathanNeal> fairy dust, surprisingly effective.
# [21:08] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish: and by font face, I mean the src for the bold weight.
# [21:09] <paul_irish> yup
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# [21:09] <JonathanNeal> It seems I just repeat the font face, but change the font-weight and it works.
# [21:10] <paul_irish> yup
# [21:10] <JonathanNeal> I love when you say yup, amirite?
# [21:10] <paul_irish> urrite!
# [21:10] <JonathanNeal> GAH! To WHOM!
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# [21:11] <JonathanNeal> I downloaded Helvetica on my Windows machine, TTF. The aliasing looked pretty crappy, but it was nice to see all this text on the web closer to how mac users were.
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# [21:12] <JonathanNeal> Then I repackaged Helvetica with font squirrel, and it looks pretty awesoe.
# [21:12] <JonathanNeal> *awesome
# [21:12] <JonathanNeal> Albeit illegal for anything beyond my educational developmental purposes.
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# [21:14] <franksalim> Evet, I'm not sure what you mean, then. Can you help me understand what sort of attack you are worried about?
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# [21:15] <franksalim> Evet, if you connect cross-origin with WebSocket, it doesn't allow the target to scrip the page (like jsonp does)
# [21:15] <Evet> franksalim: i need to authorize client websites
# [21:17] <franksalim> Evet, I still don't understand what you mean :/
# [21:18] <daleharvey> serving web fonts to mobile browsers is irresponsible?
# [21:18] <Evet> franksalim: wss://server.com is my server, http://client.com is websockets client
# [21:18] <Evet> franksalim: i dont want http://unauthorizedclient.com to access my wss://server.com
# [21:19] <franksalim> ok, i'm with you so far
# [21:19] <franksalim> you can prevent that on your server, because connections from http://unauthorizedclient.com will have an origin header telling you where they came from
# [21:20] <Evet> hmm, the traditional way
# [21:20] <JonathanNeal> I wish we could just standardize website print with your font face stuff, paul_irish.
# [21:20] <franksalim> Evet, what is the traditional way?
# [21:20] <JonathanNeal> Like, pick our own legal Helvetica/Arial, Times, monospace knockoffs.
# [21:20] <JonathanNeal> What are your thoughts on this, paul_irish?
# [21:20] <Evet> franksalim: referrer validation
# [21:21] <franksalim> origin is like a newer, more useful version of referrer
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# [21:22] <franksalim> and origin is required to be present in WebSocket connection headers
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# [21:24] <Evet> franksalim: are you using socket.io for cross-browser support?
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# [21:25] <franksalim> Evet, I work for Kaazing. I am typically using Kaazing for cross-browser support :)
# [21:26] <Evet> hmm
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# [21:31] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish, eh?
# [21:31] <codepo8> http://hacks.mozilla.org/2011/01/simple-html5-video-encoding-with-vid-ly-interview-first-impressions-and-invite-code/
# [21:31] <paul_irish> eh
# [21:31] <codepo8> interview with the vid.ly owner - a way to hack their HTML5 embed to not need JS and invite code.
# [21:31] <JonathanNeal> did you get my question/comment about font face?
# [21:34] <Evet> franksalim: its very exciting to run a web application on a CDN :)
# [21:36] <franksalim> Evet: yes, very
# [21:37] <danielfilho> codepo8: thanks for the code! Will try it out :D
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# [21:44] <mokush> what's the best way to work with the twitter api from js?
# [21:47] <cgcardona> <3 ::selection
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# [21:48] <ben_c> I'll second that ::selection love
# [21:48] <cgcardona> :)
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# [22:25] <grantgalitz> Anyone have any pdfs on the CPSR register of the ARM CPU?
# [22:26] <grantgalitz> There's some weird behavior I'm trying to track down in my code.
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# [22:27] <grantgalitz> paul_irish: I'm trying to get the ARM7TDMI core right in the js GameBoy Advance emulator.
# [22:27] <grantgalitz> Some weird processor flag instance that's possibly undocumented... hrmm
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# [22:30] <paul_irish> what the shit does that mean
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# [22:30] <nimbupani> :D
# [22:30] <paul_irish> i think i speak for everyone here.
# [22:30] <grantgalitz> heh
# [22:30] <nimbupani> ARM CPU
# [22:31] <grantgalitz> yup
# [22:31] <grantgalitz> I wonder once I open source it whether google will fork it and use the ARM CPU core to make an android emulator entirely in js. :P
# [22:31] <paul_irish> ?g arm computer wearable
# [22:31] <bot-t> paul_irish, LXE's Rugged HX2 Arm-Wearable Computer Frees Hands for Improved ... - http://www.applelinks.com/index.php/more/lxes_rugged_hx2_arm_wearable_computer_frees_hands_for_improved_productivity/
# [22:32] <grantgalitz> heh
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# [22:32] <grantgalitz> Though the cortex crap qould need to be added to the base ARM7TDMI core
# [22:32] <grantgalitz> and of course update it to THUMB2 support
# [22:33] <grantgalitz> *would
# [22:33] <grantgalitz> paul_irish: Ever tried doing a 32-bit processor emulation in js? heheheheh
# [22:33] <grantgalitz> GBC was only 8 bit
# [22:34] <grantgalitz> GBA is 32-bit ARM7TDMI with pipelining. :P
# [22:34] <grantgalitz> well
# [22:34] <snover> Somehow I feel like JavaScript is not the most appropriate language for such an endeavour :P
# [22:34] <grantgalitz> with a 16-bit THUMB instruction set
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# [22:34] <grantgalitz> snover: blasphemy!
# [22:34] <paul_irish> i wrote a script that allows you to modify the H S and L parts of the string "hsl(230, 4%, 50%)" yesterday.
# [22:34] <paul_irish> didnt get around to a CPU yet
# [22:35] <snover> what with, among other stuff, the whole bitwise operator requiring a roundtrip conversion IEEE-754 -> int32 -> IEEE-754 thing
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# [22:35] <grantg> heh
# [22:36] <snover> that is just sort of the first thing that comes to mind
# [22:36] <grantg> paul_irish: Did you ever get to view my youtube video?
# [22:36] <grantg> :P
# [22:36] <snover> not having direct memory access is another good one
# [22:36] <grantg> I think many people think it's a java applet
# [22:37] <grantg> snover: JIT FTW.
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# [22:37] <grantg> typed arrays FTW.
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# [22:39] <grantg> snover: I'm not doing Wii emulation. :P
# [22:39] <grantg> I'm oing much slower systems. ;)
# [22:39] <grantg> *doing
# [22:39] <snover> uchhhh.
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# [22:39] <grantg> GBC gets between approx. 1 MIPS and 2 MIPS
# [22:39] <grantg> GBA gets 15 MIPS
# [22:39] <grantg> approx
# [22:40] <grantg> give or take depending on what instrs are being executed.
# [22:40] <snover> and then there’s all the other subsystems you need to emulate :P
# [22:40] <grantg> IRQs, etc
# [22:40] <grantg> yup
# [22:40] <grantg> tile caching system FTW
# [22:40] <paul_irish> grantg: can you link it again
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# [22:41] <grantg> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojDWQ_Vtho
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# [22:41] <grantg> the clicks in the background is from quicktime recording it
# [22:41] <grantg> meh
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# [22:42] <norbert> hi all, the W3C Validator says that the type attribute is currently not (yet?) supported for the video element
# [22:42] <grantg> saw it? :P
# [22:43] <norbert> I'm currently using type='video/ogg; codecs="theora, vorbis"'
# [22:43] <norbert> I want the website to work in as many browsers/situations as possible, but also want it to validate
# [22:43] <norbert> any suggestions?
# [22:43] <franksalim> grantg, very awesome
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# [22:43] <grantg> paul_irish: You'll notice a firefox 4 bug *in* the youtube video.
# [22:43] <grantg> franksalim: Thanks
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# [22:44] <grantg> The bug being the window.localStorage data wasn't loaded in on time, so I had to refresh the page to load in the saves again.
# [22:44] <grantg> firefox's fault. :/
# [22:44] <grantg> shit
# [22:44] <grantg> I need to file this bug
# [22:44] <grantg> lol
# [22:45] <grantg> I always run into these things and not report them.
# [22:45] <paul_irish> can i pay you money to report these bugs
# [22:45] <paul_irish> :)
# [22:45] <grantg> lol
# [22:45] <nimbupani> $1 per bug
# [22:46] <grantg> no need
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# [22:48] <norbert> anyone? :/
# [22:48] <paul_irish> use the source tag inside of yr video
# [22:49] <paul_irish> or.. don't worry about the error the validator gives you
# [22:51] <norbert> you mean add the type after .ogv inside src="..."?
# [22:52] <dilvie> =)
# [22:52] <grantg> Anyone can join into the GBC emulator currently.
# [22:53] <grantg> The code is at https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online
# [22:53] <grantg> :D
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# [22:53] <grantg> The GBA is still a WIP, I can't stress that enough
# [22:54] <norbert> ~\☺/
# [22:55] <norbert> ٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶ __̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡
# [22:55] <grantg> :/
# [22:55] <grantg> norbert: The answer is 42.
# [22:56] <norbert> according to the The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, I know
# [22:56] <paul_irish> that's like.. happy zalgo
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# [22:58] <nimbupani> ?hapyzalgo
# [22:58] <bot-t> ٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶ __̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡
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# [23:05] <danielfilho> anyone knows if there's a way to find who "Liked" a specific url on facebook?
# [23:05] <danielfilho> Kinda, who liked www.aol.com, or something like that?
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# [23:05] <danielfilho> I'm googling it but no success
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# [23:15] <paul_irish> grantg: that video is dope
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# [23:16] <Evet> what is the websockets compatible equivalent of socket.io?
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# [23:21] <paul_irish> socket.io
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# [23:32] <Evet> what does "polyfill" means?
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# [23:37] <paul_irish> Evet: a polyfill is a shim that has the exact same API as the native support
# [23:37] <paul_irish> json2.js is a good example.. it adds JSON.parse() but only if it wasnt previously defined
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# [23:40] <paul_irish> the point is that polyfill code wont be neccessary in the future
# [23:41] <paul_irish> it's better than a shim layer that normalizes APIs but uses a newer/"better" API.. as a result it'd have to stick around fo evah
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# [23:55] <antonkovalyov> new cr48 are shipping
# [23:55] * antonkovalyov hopes he'll get one this time
# [23:55] <Evet> paul_irish: is there a good polyfill of websockets?
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# [23:59] <paul_irish> Evet: yes https://github.com/Modernizr/Modernizr/wiki/HTML5-Cross-browser-Polyfills
# [23:59] <paul_irish> the web-socket-js flash polyfill is good
# [00:00] <paul_irish> but socket.io uses that.. and smooths out a lot of other issues
# Session Close: Tue Jan 25 00:00:00 2011

The end :)