/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-01-31 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Jan 31 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:00] <xonecas> and if it works with my crazy build of ffmpeg
# [00:00] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, ty; edited
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# [00:01] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, about less.js, you were talking about this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/447925/Screenshots/6h5xv_o-v2-r.png
# [00:01] <antonkovalyov> ?
# [00:02] <paul_irish> i guess so
# [00:02] <paul_irish> i was looking at it in minified source and it looked interesting
# [00:02] <paul_irish> but.. yeah this doesnt help us unfortunately
# [00:02] <antonkovalyov> i could add a check for window
# [00:02] <antonkovalyov> but meh
# [00:02] <paul_irish> well he assumes node if no window
# [00:02] <antonkovalyov> ya
# [00:02] <paul_irish> you need to know node or rhino
# [00:03] <paul_irish> or.. whatever other whatevers
# [00:03] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish is so badass he skips normal source and reads directly the minified version
# [00:03] <antonkovalyov> we use rhino at disqus for jslint so i have a hack there
# [00:04] <antonkovalyov> i'll incorporate it into jshint.js today i think
# [00:04] <paul_irish> a impromptu good js quiz would be to name the minifier that was used for the resulting code
# [00:05] <antonkovalyov> meh
# [00:05] <snover> typeof is not a functionnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
# [00:05] <snover> </pedant>
# [00:06] <snover> paul_irish: fun idea :)
# [00:06] <Pewpewarrows> anyone know why crockford took the rhino jslint off his site a while back?
# [00:06] <snover> function(p,a,c,k,e,r)
# [00:06] <snover> ?crock @ Pewpewarrows
# [00:06] <bot-t> Pewpewarrows, Your sadly pathetic bleatings are harshing my mellow.
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# [00:06] <Pewpewarrows> every time :(
# [00:06] <antonkovalyov> Pewpewarrows, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/447925/Screenshots/y2-f_p~sneh5.png
# [00:06] <antonkovalyov> still there
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# [00:07] <Pewpewarrows> no I meant what used to be at http://www.jslint.com/rhino/index.html
# [00:08] <antonkovalyov> oh
# [00:08] <antonkovalyov> dunno
# [00:08] <antonkovalyov> http://web.archive.org/web/20071201182151/http://www.jslint.com/rhino/index.html
# [00:09] <antonkovalyov> the page does not seem to be too useful though
# [00:09] <Pewpewarrows> right it linked to the rhino version of it
# [00:09] <Pewpewarrows> which is mysteriously gone
# [00:10] <Pewpewarrows> because it harshened his mellow
# [00:10] <antonkovalyov> Pewpewarrows, lemme commit rhino support to the jshint real quick then
# [00:10] <antonkovalyov> anybody knows where i can get full list of globals that node.js defines?
# [00:10] <Pewpewarrows> antonkovalyov: awesome, I can send people to that instead of archive.org then :)
# [00:11] <antonkovalyov> well
# [00:11] <antonkovalyov> as soon as we will get website
# [00:11] <antonkovalyov> it'll get much easier
# [00:11] <Pewpewarrows> slightly on subject, does anyone know how to get jquery lint to ignore third-party libs
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# [00:12] <antonkovalyov> hm how do i check if env is rhino
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# [00:16] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: there's a global called 'version' that probably says something useful?
# [00:16] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, i checked
# [00:16] <antonkovalyov> version() > 0
# [00:16] <paul_irish> well
# [00:16] <antonkovalyov> and i don't wanna check if version is a func
# [00:17] <antonkovalyov> there is a global environment
# [00:17] <paul_irish> loop over all the members of your `rhino` object and see if they're global and `window` isnt?
# [00:20] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, environment has all the java properties
# [00:20] <antonkovalyov> so i'll just check if environment is global and environment['java.runtime.version'] is not undefined
# [00:20] <antonkovalyov> and window is undefined
# [00:20] <antonkovalyov> sweeet
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# [00:23] <nimbupani> shepazu: https://github.com/simplegeo/polymaps/issues/labels/opera#issue/50
# [00:23] <nimbupani> :(
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# [00:30] <xonecas> paul_irish: up to chromium 11.0.655.0 (73119) :-)
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# [00:32] <paul_irish> these go to eleven!!!
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# [00:43] <antonkovalyov> Pewpewarrows, https://github.com/jshint/jshint
# [00:43] <antonkovalyov> in the readme section, scroll down to the environments block
# [00:43] <Pewpewarrows> antonkovalyov: yay :)
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# [00:45] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, am i doing it right? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/447925/Screenshots/_y~d3ur8aq-2.png feels weeeeeird
# [00:46] <paul_irish> looks fine to me
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# [01:12] <shepazu> nimbupani: maybe you should just trigger a resize event somehow to prime it on Opera
# [01:12] <nimbupani> yeahhh :///
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# [02:07] <chipotle> Pewpewarrows: are you still here?
# [02:07] <chipotle> are there reasons not to work on PSD to html/css/jquery conversions? i thought i read an article about why creating websites starting in PSDs are not a good idea...
# [02:08] <chipotle> what are your options if you are not working with a graphic designer but still need to make a website design?
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# [02:08] <nimbupani> umm you asked in the morning chipotle!
# [02:08] <chipotle> nimbupani: i know, i am reading the backlog now -- i had an emergency so i had to leave
# [02:08] <chipotle> nimbupani: what do you mean "i design in the browser"?
# [02:09] <chipotle> do you mean you use a grid?
# [02:09] <nimbupani> wat
# [02:09] <nimbupani> no
# [02:09] <nimbupani> i mean
# [02:09] <nimbupani> i design on the fly
# [02:09] <nimbupani> with html/css
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# [02:09] <nimbupani> like for html5readiness.com & html5boilerplate.com
# [02:09] <chipotle> nimbupani: that is your site?
# [02:10] <nimbupani> thats mine & paul_irish's
# [02:10] * chipotle is new to html/css/js , in other words, i am just now learning front end design, so please bear with me
# [02:10] <nimbupani> sure
# [02:10] <chipotle> nimbupani: so how did you create that without PSDs?
# [02:10] <nimbupani> use html5boilerplate for the scaffold and work my way up.
# [02:10] <nimbupani> maybe i should write a blog post :)
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# [02:18] <chipotle> nimbupani: please do :)
# [02:19] <chipotle> nimbupani: do you know any resources to find free/open source html/css designs that i can download and then edit (thereby learning how to use html and css)?
# [02:19] <chipotle> is css3 supported in most modern browsers? when should you use css2 instead of css3?
# [02:20] <chipotle> html5 is pretty well supported (with the exception of <video> tags) from what i read... is css3 development similiar to html5 development support?
# [02:20] <nimbupani> chipotle: read away at boilerplate
# [02:20] <nimbupani> ?g github nimbupani html5boilerplate-site
# [02:20] <bot-t> nimbupani, nimbupani's Profile - GitHub - https://github.com/nimbupani
# [02:20] <nimbupani> https://github.com/nimbupani/html5boilerplate-site
# [02:20] <Neiluj> chipotle: html5 & css3 are "old" html/css + candies
# [02:21] <nimbupani> umm maybe view-source on html5boilerplate.com would be a beetter idea
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# [02:37] <chipotle> Neiluj: yeah, i know... but what does css3 have that css2 doesn't have?
# [02:37] <Neiluj> shadows, rounded corners, animations, transitions, and more and more
# [02:39] <nimbupani> chipotle: if you are new just get started with plain old html/css
# [02:39] <nimbupani> lots you can do
# [02:46] * tw2113 agrees with nimbupani
# [02:47] <Pewpewarrows> chipotle: I'm back
# [02:49] <tw2113> chipotle avoid any css tutorials that show achieving rounded corners with tons of divs and images....
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# [04:50] <nimbupani> omg omg omg box shadows fixeddd in webkit
# [04:50] <paul_irish> ?
# [04:51] <nimbupani> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22102
# [04:51] <nimbupani> RESOLVED FIXED
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# [04:57] <nimbupani> silence
# [04:59] <tw2113> sorry, i can't help but lack major excitement when i never realized there was a bug :D
# [05:00] <nimbupani> its a gross bug
# [05:00] <tw2113> aren't they all?
# [05:01] <antonkovalyov> yo people
# [05:02] <nimbupani> yows
# [05:02] <antonkovalyov> offtopic: i sold my magic trackpad (piece of shit) and i want some good bluetooth mouse that is not ugly and not magic mouse (i have one at the office). any suggestions?
# [05:03] <nimbupani> o i hv a trackpad :/
# [05:03] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [05:04] <antonkovalyov> nimbupani, i think we have diff opinions on about every topic
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# [05:06] <nimbupani> you are like my antipode
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# [05:07] <Brodingo> never really thought of that as a bug, just a why-are-you-specifying-such-a-large-blur kind of thing
# [05:08] <nimbupani> it is a bug
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# [05:09] <nimbupani> http://nimbupani.com/demo/css3vignettes/ is wai
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# [05:09] <nimbupani> try umm resizing
# [05:10] <Brodingo> yeah thats pretty bad
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# [05:11] <tw2113> i'd get rid of the magic mouse if I could
# [05:11] <tw2113> i want something i can hold onto and isn't so damn sensitive
# [05:12] <antonkovalyov> bestselling logitech mouse on amazon
# [05:12] <antonkovalyov> has some kind of usb receiver
# [05:12] <antonkovalyov> and i have only two usb ports
# [05:12] <antonkovalyov> so fuck it
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# [05:32] <antonkovalyov> nimbupani, what do you think should jshint.com focus on? a web interface for jshint library or information about best practices?
# [05:32] <nimbupani> why not both?
# [05:33] <nimbupani> i mean the primary function would be the jshint stuff
# [05:33] <antonkovalyov> i dunno, it is hard ui-wise?
# [05:33] <nimbupani> secondary function can be best practices
# [05:33] <nimbupani> i dont think its hard :/
# [05:33] <antonkovalyov> :'-( y u calling me stupid
# [05:33] <nimbupani> :/
# [05:33] <nimbupani> i didnt!
# [05:34] <nimbupani> no need to expose best practices on home page too much
# [05:34] <nimbupani> but can be linked to from results
# [05:34] <antonkovalyov> makes sense
# [05:34] <nimbupani> or like a random fotd
# [05:34] <nimbupani> ?ud fotd
# [05:34] <bot-t> nimbupani, FOTD - Friend Of The Day.I.e. someone who is just altogether awesome and you want to associate yourself with for that particular day. Kind of like Mother's Day or Father's Day, except 293487234678913465 times better and funner.Also a Facebook application that chooses one of your friends at random (and tends to be rather accurate).
# [05:34] <nimbupani> wat
# [05:35] <nimbupani> i meant fact of the day
# [05:35] <antonkovalyov> haha
# [05:35] <antonkovalyov> i am pretty awesome though, ty bot-t
# [05:40] <nimbupani> ha ha ha
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# [05:44] <antonkovalyov> thanks nimbupani
# [05:44] <nimbupani> my pleasure antonkovalyov
# [05:46] <antonkovalyov> nimbupani, btw where do you work? freelance?
# [05:46] <nimbupani> antonkovalyov: i start full-time work tomorrow :)
# [05:46] <antonkovalyov> working for the man eh
# [05:46] <nimbupani> till today i was not working :)
# [05:46] <antonkovalyov> where (if that is not a secret)?
# [05:47] * nimbupani PMs antonkovalyov
# [05:51] <tw2113> it is a question i had, with all these personal project stuff that you all seem to work on, when did you fit time in for a dayjob
# [06:03] <tw2113> wha? no answer?
# [06:03] <nimbupani> i am jobless till today tw2113
# [06:03] <nimbupani> so only personal projects
# [06:04] <tw2113> congrats on the new one, by the way ma'am
# [06:04] <tw2113> :)
# [06:05] <nimbupani> thanks tw2113!
# [06:06] <nimbupani> i should make it public soonz
# [06:06] <tw2113> is it one of those awesome jobs where you make things for the internet?
# [06:06] <nimbupani> i hope so :)
# [06:06] <tw2113> they're the best type
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# [06:08] <tw2113> sit around all day, coding cool shit
# [06:08] <tw2113> helping push the internet into a new generation
# [06:08] <nimbupani> i fear the sitting around part.
# [06:09] <tw2113> take occasional breaks
# [06:10] <tw2113> get up, walk around, etc
# [06:10] <tw2113> or get a desk with a treadmill
# [06:10] <tw2113> :D
# [06:10] <nimbupani> or stand and work?
# [06:11] <tw2113> another option
# [06:12] <tw2113> if only voice to code was a viable option
# [06:12] <nimbupani> omg i wish it was
# [06:13] <tw2113> "less than sign, question mark, e c h o, apostrophe, H E L L O W O R L D apostrophe, semicolon, question mark, greater than sign
# [06:13] <tw2113> nah, not as efficient as i'd prefer
# [06:14] <nimbupani> :)
# [06:15] <tw2113> and there's too much risk for stray instances of "shit" and "moar coffeez!!!" in the code
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# [06:26] <tw2113> wycks did you whois me or something?
# [06:26] <wycks> hehe I'm stalking you
# [06:27] <wycks> in reality I was bored and browsing irc channels
# [06:27] <tw2113> i figured you wanted to hang in the cool peoples room
# [06:27] <wycks> I want a shiny made with html5 button
# [06:29] <wycks> I was on the verge of checking out #/r/trees
# [06:30] <tw2113> heh
# [06:30] <tw2113> i'm fixing a small petpeeve of mine
# [06:30] <tw2113> bad/ugly audio file ID3 tags
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# [06:44] <paul_irish> genre: porn groove
# [06:45] <tw2113> yo paul
# [06:45] <paul_irish> hey tw
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# [06:51] <noxxten> paul_irish: I just heard the recent sitepoint podcast with you in it. I couldn't catch most of it, but I heard you somehow targeting elements that used css3 stuff in older css3 incapible browsers to fix things up a little. how would you do that? :o
# [06:51] <paul_irish> a few ways
# [06:52] <paul_irish> what are you interested in fixing up
# [06:53] <noxxten> nothing in particular, but it's very intresting i could target elements in that way. making older browsers look stylish for their time, but allowing modern ones to use the css3 elements without fear or partial or broken support sometimes
# [06:56] <digitalfiz> paul_irish, what was that real time editor you where using the other day
# [06:56] <paul_irish> typewith.me
# [06:56] <digitalfiz> ty :D
# [06:56] <paul_irish> noxxten: some combo of selectivizr and css3pie would suit your needs i think
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# [06:57] <noxxten> I really need to look more into modernizer, selectivizr, and css3pie more. I've just glanced them over really.
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# [07:01] <paul_irish> yes
# [07:02] <tw2113> no, don't go learning things!
# [07:02] <tw2113> anything but that!
# [07:02] <tw2113> :P
# [07:03] <noxxten> Ha I'm overrun lately coming back into the field. html5,css3, all the scripts and plugs. it's amazing being able to have it all to learn though :P
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# [07:03] <NiftyLettuce> any ruby developers here?
# [07:03] <NiftyLettuce> just sparked an idea tonight and I want to have the app finished by March
# [07:03] <NiftyLettuce> got a designer/two developers/ looking for a really good ruby dev
# [07:04] <NiftyLettuce> will use html5/css3/compass/sass probz
# [07:04] <NiftyLettuce> not to troll, :) since this is html5 related
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# [07:14] <paul_irish> nimbupani : HOLY SHIT box shadow perf fixed!
# [07:14] <paul_irish> \o/
# [07:14] <nimbupani> UMMM
# [07:15] <nimbupani> did I not mention it as BREAKING NEWS
# [07:15] <nimbupani> an hour ago or smthing
# [07:15] <nimbupani> yes if you ever meet sfmr pls pls thank him
# [07:16] <tw2113> 09:48pm] <nimbupani> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22102
# [07:16] <tw2113> [09:48pm] <nimbupani> RESOLVED FIXED
# [07:16] <tw2113> more like 2.5 hours ago
# [07:16] <nimbupani> ha ha ha
# [07:16] <paul_irish> SORRY I WAS BUSY GEEEEEEEZ
# [07:16] <nimbupani> FINE
# [07:17] <tw2113> she had to rely on me to express her glee
# [07:17] <tw2113> and i didn't know of the bug, so i had to feign excitement
# [07:17] <tw2113> and badly done at that!
# [07:17] <nimbupani> awww it wasnt
# [07:17] * tw2113 tries to spin this as paul's fault
# [07:17] <nimbupani> IT IS
# [07:18] <nimbupani> there was no euphoric celebration like i wanted it
# [07:18] <paul_irish> THIS IS FUCKING AMAZING
# [07:18] <paul_irish> \o\ \o/ /o/
# [07:18] <nimbupani> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
# [07:18] <tw2113> HOLY MOLEY DEIGHTY ON HIGH!!!!
# [07:19] <nimbupani> :D
# [07:19] <nimbupani> man i should really stop typing
# [07:19] <tw2113> shit, forgot to declare the deighty variable
# [07:19] <nimbupani> fingers hurting so much
# [07:19] <tw2113> var deighty?
# [07:19] <tw2113> is that how you do variables in js?
# [07:19] <nimbupani> okay peeps i am offline on irc
# [07:19] <nimbupani> gn!
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# [07:28] <NiftyLettuce> anyone here know any good books on html5/css3/js ?
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# [12:47] <blokefrompoland> Hi.
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# [12:59] <jo-erlend> I keep reading about "the document outline", specially in relation to hgroup. What exactly does that mean?
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# [14:01] <hanouman> Hi everybody Just a question, Is it possible to save all events objects on document ?
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# [14:07] <Neiluj> hanouman: what do you mean by "save" ?
# [14:07] <Neiluj> you mean catch ?
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# [14:08] <hanouman> i would like to detect all dom node wich have event click
# [14:09] <Neiluj> document.body.addEventListener('click', function(e) {console.log(e, e.target);})
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# [14:10] <Neiluj> hanouman: can I ask you why you need to do this ? event delegation ?
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# [14:11] <Neiluj> mmh, I think I misunderstood, you want to know every nodes listening to events ?...
# [14:12] <hanouman> yes but i would like to know without a listener because i dont want click on elements
# [14:12] <hanouman> yes
# [14:12] <hanouman> exactly
# [14:12] <Neiluj> ok
# [14:12] <Neiluj> sorry for misunderstanding I'm french ;)
# [14:12] <hanouman> me too
# [14:12] <hanouman> lol
# [14:12] <Neiluj> :D
# [14:12] <Neiluj> world is small
# [14:13] <hanouman> yesp ;) on peut peut etre parler francais
# [14:13] <Neiluj> I don't think so ;) it can be useful for other folks
# [14:13] <hanouman> ok i understand
# [14:14] <Neiluj> I don't how's the chan politic about this :)
# [14:14] <hanouman> ok
# [14:14] <hanouman> no problem
# [14:15] <Neiluj> is a jquery solution acceptable for you ?
# [14:15] <hanouman> prototype but i can adapt it
# [14:15] <hanouman> yep
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# [14:21] <Neiluj> I know there's a way with jQuery to know if an element have listeners but only if they were binded with jQuery
# [14:21] <Neiluj> $('#my-element').data('events')
# [14:23] <Neiluj> hanouman: a very bad and ugly solution http://pastie.org/1514592
# [14:24] <Neiluj> there's certinaly a better way to do this but... :)
# [14:24] <hanouman> ok look that thanks ;)
# [14:25] <Neiluj> oops there's a mistake one line 5, that's a } and not a )
# [14:25] <hanouman> lol
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# [14:25] <hanouman> oki ;)
# [14:25] <Neiluj> I've just test, it works :)
# [14:26] <hanouman> ok thanks very much
# [14:27] <Neiluj> np but don't put that code into production, $('*') is REALLY bad :)
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# [14:28] <hanouman> ok , i just must check img
# [14:28] <hanouman> $('img')
# [14:28] <hanouman> $$('img')
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# [15:12] <jetienne> jQuery mobile makes page layout very smooth, using html structure. What about doing the same but for desktop webapps, with larger screens ? <- anybody knows a framework doing this ?
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# [15:19] <Pewpewarrows> one that spans multiple "screens" like jqmobile? nope
# [15:20] <bbabics_> Is it possible to define steps for an input field as well as a pattern for more granularity?
# [15:21] <bbabics_> I have a input[type=time][step=900] (every 15 minutes)
# [15:21] <bbabics_> so "02:15" validates, but "02:17" doesn't.
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# [15:22] <bbabics_> I thought the pattern might be "[00:24]{2}:[00-60]{2}", but that doesn't seem to work either. :( Any suggestions?
# [15:22] <jetienne> Pewpewarrows: this is a nice feature of jqmobile. but i was more thinking about the "nice html sturcture to define the layout" as opposed to a "lots of js to define structure." like extjs and likely other
# [15:23] <jetienne> Pewpewarrows: the transparent aspect of the "nice html structure" makes it nice during dev i think. especially for basic applications
# [15:23] <Pewpewarrows> jetienne: that's one of the reasons I shied away from extjs, javascriptmvc, sencha, etc
# [15:23] <Pewpewarrows> you might want to look into backbone, sammy, or knockout
# [15:24] <jetienne> Pewpewarrows: ok thanks
# [15:24] <Pewpewarrows> (I personally hate how knockout works btw, so my preference would be the other two)
# [15:24] <jetienne> my personnal choice will be driven by code/doc quality and support
# [15:24] <miketaylr> bbabics_: @pattern doesn't applie to type=time, afaik
# [15:24] <Pewpewarrows> backbone is my personal favorite right now, I use it on things where it's completely overkill just because I enjoy how it works so much
# [15:24] <miketaylr> *apply
# [15:25] <miketaylr> @min, @max and @step are all you have, apart from setCustomValidity
# [15:26] <bbabics_> miketaylr: hhmm. Not sure if that will fly with business. :( They want increments of 15min, but to allow for free form of minutes inbetween.
# [15:26] <bbabics_> makes sense. good to know.
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# [15:27] <miketaylr> if you want to allow the user to select any value, but clamp it to the nearest 15 minutes...that might be something to do on the server
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# [15:28] <bbabics_> Would I be able to check the value in setCustomValidity and return boolean?
# [15:29] <jetienne> Pewpewarrows: after a rapid scan, backbone seems to run only in browser (similar to sproutcore), correct ?
# [15:29] <bbabics_> false being the error?
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# [15:30] <miketaylr> i'm not sure why you even want to validate clientside if you want to allow the user to select any value
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# [15:30] <miketaylr> unless i misunderstand
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# [15:30] <Pewpewarrows> jetienne: as of now, yes it's a client-side framework, but there's work being done to mesh it with node.js, which would mean you'd only write your models, templates, views etc ONCE
# [15:30] <Pewpewarrows> which really excites me
# [15:31] <miketaylr> but yeah, run your setCustomValidity fn right before submit and return false to throw an error
# [15:31] <jetienne> Pewpewarrows: excelent. i like node.js ability to share code too
# [15:31] <miketaylr> sorry, trigger a validation error :)
# [15:31] <bbabics_> miketaylr: i don't really need to validate, I'm just trying to allow for 15min increments, but because it's still freeform, if a user enters a val other than 15min increments, it throws an error.
# [15:31] <bbabics_> *triggers
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# [15:35] <jetienne> <script type="text/x-jquery-tmpl"></script> if the browser doesnt know the type= value, it will ignore the script ?
# [15:35] <miketaylr> pretty much
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# [15:36] <jetienne> miketaylr: is there some ugly details worth to know ? jquery template seem to operate this way. just wanted to ensure this is ok by standard
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# [15:38] <miketaylr> jetienne: html5 sez: "Authors can embed raw data using the <script type=""> mechanism with a custom type, for further handling by inline or server-side scripts."
# [15:38] <miketaylr> pretty sure it works everywhere
# [15:38] <jetienne> miketaylr: oh seems clearly in the standard then. thanks
# [15:38] <miketaylr> np
# [15:39] <bbabics_> jetienne: Quick tip: Embedding scripts in your page that have a unknown content-type (such is the case here - the browser doesn't know how to execute a text/html script) are simply ignored by the browser
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# [15:40] <jetienne> bbok
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# [15:40] <bbabics> jetienne: http://ejohn.org/blog/javascript-micro-templating/
# [15:41] <jetienne> bbabics: i was aware of it
# [15:44] <bbabics> jetienne: sorry. not sure if my previous post went through. John Resign explains that the type, if custom and not recognized by a browser, it is ignored
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# [15:49] <tw2113> aye, fresh snow, and all the slow drivers out on the road
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# [16:07] <tw2113> i have to admit, this is kind of hot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-TcD0japKs
# [16:07] <tw2113> Slayer in 8bit
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# [17:08] <n8o> is this the appropriate room to ask about canvas?
# [17:10] <tw2113> yup
# [17:10] <tw2113> but it's been pretty quiet so far today
# [17:10] <franksalim> good morning
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# [17:11] <n8o> i'm trying to figure out how to draw an image to the canvas using a data: url
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# [17:12] <n8o> gah, I think i found my problem
# [17:16] <miketaylr> glad we could help :)
# [17:17] <tw2113> ^this
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# [17:27] <tw2113> http://imgur.com/T6BMs hee
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# [17:46] <mike5w3c> http://html5.miller-interactive.com/
# [17:47] <tw2113> is it supposed to do anything visually?
# [17:49] <expi> isn't html5 just called html now? :D
# [17:50] <paul_irish> not really no.
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# [17:52] <jetienne> mike5w3c: a video of a static logo ? i dont get it
# [17:52] <expi> :{
# [17:52] <mike5w3c> heh
# [17:52] <mike5w3c> it's encoded in H.264
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# [17:53] <mike5w3c> for all the people who both hate the logo and a religiously anti-H.264
# [17:53] <jetienne> and dont like fast moving video ? :)
# [17:53] <mike5w3c> paul_irish: here's something really useful I found recently: http://www.fuckinghorn.com/
# [17:54] <mike5w3c> jetienne: it's a "healing" video
# [17:54] <expi> lol :D
# [17:54] <paul_irish> <title>Fucking Horn .com - TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT</title>
# [17:54] <mike5w3c> meant to be enjoyed with aroma oils, that kind of thing
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# [17:56] <mike5w3c> Chorvus is one of the M Project devs
# [17:56] <mike5w3c> http://twitter.com/#!/chorvus
# [17:56] <mike5w3c> seriously whacked
# [17:57] <mike5w3c> If we had just a few more people like this in the universe, all our problems would be solved
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# [18:14] <ChessTeach> I would like to have a page element that has its own scroll bar. what would be a good tag to achieve this... something similiar to how google reader displays its articles
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# [18:18] <JonathanNeal> Sentence.
# [18:19] <JonathanNeal> I mean, word.
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# [18:23] <felcom> modernizr includes html5 shiv-type thing right?
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# [18:23] <JonathanNeal> what's this modernizr business? html5 shiv? madness.
# [18:24] <felcom> wut
# [18:25] <paul_irish> felcom: it does.
# [18:26] <paul_irish> jon neal wrote it. (for both)
# [18:27] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish, how are you doing? What are you up to this week?
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# [18:31] <tw2113> paul_irish, someone has nerd love for you http://twitter.com/#!/dap6000/statuses/32120906411147264
# [18:31] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/dKRCyu @dap6000: My nerd-crush on @RellyAB is just as strictly professional as my nerd-crush on @paul_irish. Don't be sexist. http://bit.ly/9cXOdB <- Awesome
# [18:31] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: doing good. trying to get out modernizr 1.7
# [18:31] <paul_irish> and the all elusive html5 boilerplate 1.0
# [18:32] <paul_irish> also ..
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# [18:32] <felcom> Does modernizr have to be in the <head> element or something? I have it included before </body> and it doesn't seem to fix <header> and <section> in IE
# [18:32] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: lemme add you to a private repo i'm working on with caniuse guy
# [18:32] <JonathanNeal> sure thing, love it.
# [18:32] <paul_irish> felcom: correct. has to be in <head> for that reason
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# [18:32] <felcom> ahh herp derp, thanks
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# [18:45] <Neiluj> does somebody try to load selectivizr with yepnope yet ?
# [18:46] <Neiluj> *did*
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# [18:48] <paul_irish> Neiluj: dunno! you should try
# [18:49] <Neiluj> I did, IE didn't like :)
# [18:49] <Fuld> Neiluj: IE doesn't even like sex
# [18:51] <tw2113> IE doesn't even go here!
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# [18:52] <tw2113> Mean Girls, the thing that launched Lindsey Lohen's various addictions
# [18:55] <Neiluj> IE doesn't like Slex ...
# [18:55] <tw2113> IE is grandpa
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# [18:57] <mahen23> the next tech bubble is on: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/01/lived-fast-died-young-left-a-tired-corpse.html are you going to ride it?
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# [19:03] <paul_irish> Neiluj: what happened
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# [19:03] <paul_irish> god i wish selectivizr's source was available online.. like.. uncomprsesed.. at a URL
# [19:03] <paul_irish> kills me
# [19:03] <mahen23> !omgpaul
# [19:03] <mahen23> :(
# [19:03] <paul_irish> s/!/?
# [19:03] <paul_irish> noob.
# [19:04] <paul_irish> :)
# [19:04] <mahen23> ?ongpaul
# [19:04] <bot-t> mahen23, Couldn't find "ongpaul" in jQuery Docs.
# [19:04] <mahen23> ?omgpaul
# [19:04] <bot-t> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs456.snc3/26108_532014511782_29100413_31383464_6948266_n.jpg
# [19:04] <mahen23> lolwtf
# [19:04] <Neiluj> paul_irish: https://github.com/keithclark/selectivizr
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# [19:04] <Neiluj> it is since yesterday ! :)
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# [19:05] <paul_irish> OMG
# [19:05] <paul_irish> why didnt he tell me
# [19:05] <paul_irish> hooray
# [19:05] <Neiluj> yeah o/
# [19:05] <Neiluj> I forked it just 5mn ago
# [19:05] <paul_irish> uh oh.. his version detect isnt IE10 proof.
# [19:06] <paul_irish> Neiluj: you should fix that for him
# [19:06] <Neiluj> :)
# [19:06] <Neiluj> actually, I got another problem, just yepnope related... http://pastie.org/1515396
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# [19:07] <cgcardona> what is the equivalent for diveintohtml5 for css3?
# [19:07] <Neiluj> IE8 is doing well but an alert is showing up... HTML Parsing... unable to modify the parent container element before blablabla
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# [19:07] <Neiluj> am I doing something wrong ?
# [19:07] <paul_irish> Neiluj: what's in test.js ?
# [19:07] <Neiluj> just an alert...
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# [19:07] <Neiluj> which is executed btw
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# [19:08] <Neiluj> I reduced
# [19:08] <paul_irish> SlexAxton: http://pastie.org/1515396 inside the js is an alert
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# [19:08] <paul_irish> "IE8 is doing well but an error is showing up... HTML Parsing... unable to modify the parent container element before blablabla"
# [19:08] <Neiluj> oh I didn't see Slex was here
# [19:08] <paul_irish> i had him come in
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# [19:09] <Neiluj> thx paul
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# [19:09] <SlexAxton> unable to modify the parent container errors usually mean you need to wait for dom ready
# [19:09] <SlexAxton> unless it's yepnope causing that error
# [19:10] <SlexAxton> in which case it's a bug :)
# [19:10] <paul_irish> looks like it is, since he has no dom manip
# [19:10] <SlexAxton> ah
# [19:10] <SlexAxton> any line number?
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# [19:11] <Neiluj> nope
# [19:11] <SlexAxton> ok
# [19:11] <SlexAxton> I'll look into it
# [19:12] <Neiluj> thx, I'm checking anyway if I used the latest
# [19:12] <Neiluj> 1.0pre right ?
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# [19:12] <SlexAxton> yea, that isn't a release version
# [19:12] <ralphholzmann> Neiluj: yeah, but thats a working version, we commit to master regularly
# [19:12] <Neiluj> aaah :P
# [19:12] <SlexAxton> it's just what we have in there until we push a real release
# [19:12] <Neiluj> maybe that's where I'm wrong :D
# [19:12] <SlexAxton> hopefully!
# [19:12] <Neiluj> i'll tell you in a min
# [19:12] <SlexAxton> thnx
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# [19:14] <Neiluj> ok.... my mistake...
# [19:14] <SlexAxton> oh yay
# [19:14] <SlexAxton> it's fixed?
# [19:14] <Neiluj> yep
# [19:14] <SlexAxton> awesome.
# [19:15] <Neiluj> was a 1.0pre bug
# [19:15] <Neiluj> sorry
# [19:15] <SlexAxton> should be smaller too :)
# [19:15] <SlexAxton> wait
# [19:15] <SlexAxton> what did you switch to?
# [19:15] <SlexAxton> the release version?
# [19:15] <SlexAxton> 0.2.3 or whatever?>
# [19:15] <SlexAxton> or the latest github?
# [19:15] <Neiluj> 0.2.3 yep
# [19:15] <SlexAxton> oh
# [19:15] <SlexAxton> any chance you could try with latest github version real fast?
# [19:15] <paul_irish> Neiluj: ah. now i now why yepnope doesnt work with selectivizr https://github.com/keithclark/selectivizr/blob/master/selectivizr.js#L522-524
# [19:16] <Neiluj> paul_irish: that's what I want to fix...
# [19:16] <Neiluj> thx
# [19:16] <paul_irish> Neiluj: super! :)
# [19:17] <SlexAxton> Neiluj: can i have a copy of test.js
# [19:18] <SlexAxton> so i can fix stuff in 1.0pre?
# [19:18] <Neiluj> SlexAxton: it's just an alert('Hello'); I was reducing
# [19:18] <paul_irish> SlexAxton: this guy corey hart, who made css-compressor, filed a ticket on html5boilerplate because he didnt like me using a snapshot version from his git master :)
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# [19:18] <SlexAxton> that's interesting, but i can't tell if you're suggesting something to me or not
# [19:19] <paul_irish> nah. i kinda like it when people put my dev versions to use
# [19:19] <paul_irish> i wouldnt tell them not to
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# [19:33] <JonathanNeal> How do you guys add radii to an image? http://sandbox.thewikies.com/img-w-radius/
# [19:34] <JonathanNeal> That's how I do it these days.
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# [19:37] <Neiluj> paul_irish: I don't understand how could you have such a bad connection and working at google...
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# [19:39] <SlexAxton> Neiluj: i think he's moving around, not having a bad connection
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# [19:39] <ralphholzmann> paul_irish IRCs from the bus
# [19:40] <Neiluj> well he's moving a lot, good for him :)
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# [19:40] <SlexAxton> ralphholzmann and i are the paul_irish connection quality complaint police.
# [19:40] <paul_irish> i was at home. then on the shuttle.. now at work.
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# [19:41] <Neiluj> somebody ask for Textmate on window a few days ago ? http://redcareditor.com/
# [19:41] <paul_irish> shouldnt have any more parts until time to go home :)
# [19:41] <JonathanNeal> Neiluj, and don't forget http://www.e-texteditor.com/
# [19:41] <paul_irish> <3 e text editor for windows.
# [19:41] <Neiluj> window*s*
# [19:42] <JonathanNeal> me too
# [19:42] <paul_irish> Neiluj: https://github.com/keithclark/selectivizr/issues/issue/3
# [19:42] <paul_irish> filing a second one for lazyloading
# [19:43] <Neiluj> paul_irish: Cool, saw the IE10 one too ;)
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# [19:45] <antonkovalyov> ?tell paul_irish thank you gor ignoring my important mesages
# [19:45] <bot-t> antonkovalyov, Okay.
# [19:45] <antonkovalyov> for*
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# [19:45] <paul_irish> bot-t: tell antonkovalyov to eabod
# [19:45] <bot-t> (30 secs ago) <antonkovalyov> tell paul_irish thank you gor ignoring my important mesages
# [19:45] <bot-t> paul_irish, Okay.
# [19:46] <Neiluj> I hope I'll get some time tonight to work on it, I made some tests on selectivizr and flexie today and it's crazy
# [19:46] <antonkovalyov> ?tell paul_irish way to be rude :(
# [19:46] <bot-t> (49 secs ago) <paul_irish> tell antonkovalyov to eabod
# [19:46] <bot-t> antonkovalyov, Okay.
# [19:47] <paul_irish> Neiluj: supercool
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# [19:59] <paul_irish> these guys are soliciting feedback ya'll http://simonstl.com/articles/cssFragID.html
# [19:59] <paul_irish> http://example.com/lorem.html#css(.content p:nth-child(2))
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# [20:00] <snover> paul_irish: interesting.
# [20:00] <paul_irish> yeah i kept figuring out how you'd support more selectors but still the legacy #id based one..
# [20:01] <paul_irish> they went with #css(selectorrrrrr)
# [20:01] <paul_irish> i kinda would rather #selector(.foo)
# [20:01] <paul_irish> it is very selection-y
# [20:01] <paul_irish> and not at all style-y
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# [20:03] <Neiluj> interesting but looks ugly at first sight
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# [20:04] <Neiluj> what about ##(.foo) :-)
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# [20:05] <Ms2ger> #xpath!
# [20:05] <Neiluj> yeah good one
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# [20:18] <mikesusz> a website telling me that chrome isn't fit for "full html5" that's funny. :)
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# [20:20] <Fuld> mikesusz, damn prudes
# [20:20] <mikesusz> Fuld - it tells me to install IE9. why didn't they just code it in silverlight then?
# [20:21] <Fuld> mikesusz, what site?
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# [20:21] <mikesusz> that http://www.nevermindthebullets.com/ thing, has it been mentioned here yet?
# [20:21] <Fuld> Silverlight was more failsauce (the Zune of content delivery platforms)
# [20:22] <mikesusz> built for microsoft, but still. don't say "it's HTML5" then "it only works in one browser!" (same thing goes for Apple)
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# [20:22] <Fuld> mikesusz: This looks like a ploy by Microsoft to brand themselves as getting HTML5
# [20:22] <Fuld> Which is fine by me.
# [20:22] <mikesusz> and it truly doesn't work in Chrome or Safari.
# [20:23] <Fuld> Probably something to do with HTML5 canvas or video
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# [20:23] <paul_irish> we need word that refers to IE<9 .. or some way to say it in fewer than 5 syllables
# [20:23] <mikesusz> ah hrm might be load related, it gets farther in one than the other
# [20:24] <Fuld> IE<=9
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# [20:29] <paul_irish> i wonder if there is a mailing list somewhere when the DOM was invented and someone with common sense goes.. "WTF?! WHITESPACE NODES?!? R U SRS?"
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# [20:32] <Ms2ger> Makes sense
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# [20:48] <xonecas> paul_irish: if there was someone did not listen to him!
# [20:48] <paul_irish> :'(
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# [20:52] <jo-erlend> paul_irish, OldIE? :)
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# [20:52] <paul_irish> I like it!
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# [20:52] <jo-erlend> it just comes to me!
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# [21:35] <Neiluj> paul_irish: shIEt
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# [21:44] <masondesu> ?down api.jquery.com
# [21:44] <bot-t> masondesu, It's just you. - http://api.jquery.com is up.
# [21:44] <masondesu> awesome, didn't know ol' Botty would do that
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# [21:51] <jetienne> i got a question about websocket standard. http://dev.w3.org/html5/websockets/. when they say "attribute Function onerror;" ... how do i know the parameter passed to onerror function ?
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# [21:58] <acies> data attribute on the Event object, I think
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# [21:59] <acies> websocket.onerror = function(e) { e.data ... };
# [21:59] <JKarsrud> holy crap, is there no chanserv in here? :
# [21:59] <JKarsrud> :o
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# [22:02] <paul_irish> nope
# [22:02] <Neiluj> fuck you Neiluj_
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# [22:03] <Daskreech> agreed
# [22:03] <Evet> anyone played with phonegap?
# [22:03] <paul_irish> its great
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# [22:05] <Evet> so, is sencha touch worth to buy since phonegap lets you to sell html5 apps?
# [22:06] <xonecas> :q
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# [22:13] <Daskreech> Has anyone done a technical review of Google's HTML5 mail app?
# [22:14] <paul_irish> google has
# [22:14] <Daskreech> outlining it's limitations?
# [22:14] <tw2113> lols @ someone on reddit mistaking jquery as causing z-index issues with IE7
# [22:14] <paul_irish> Daskreech: maybe?
# [22:14] <paul_irish> what are you asking
# [22:16] <Daskreech> Just I'd expect that to be one of the more heavily used Public HTML5 interfaces so I thought someone might have gone through it to see how it was structured and what limitations it may have based on the environment it's expected to be used in
# [22:16] <tw2113> i have no idea what environments to expect it to be used in
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# [22:17] <Daskreech> tw2113: As in with browsers that do not yet have a full HTML5 parser available
# [22:17] <tw2113> do any of them have FULL parsing?
# [22:17] <Daskreech> what concessions are made
# [22:18] <paul_irish> no that has not been done.
# [22:18] <Daskreech> tw2113: no. Which is what I meant it's a HTML5 app in an environment that's not well suited for a pure solution
# [22:19] <paul_irish> i believe iOS and android are whitelisted to a sexy version
# [22:19] <paul_irish> others get a less sexy version
# [22:19] <Daskreech> ah :)
# [22:19] <paul_irish> and then there's a plain html mobile one that unknowns get dumpd into
# [22:19] <Daskreech> I'm not aware of what IE engine WP7 ships with. Does anyone know?
# [22:20] <tw2113> doesn't windows phone go with IE7?
# [22:20] <Daskreech> I don't know I'm asking :)
# [22:20] <tw2113> i have a tall finger for any phone microsoft tries to market as uptodate
# [22:21] <Daskreech> assuming that you do not allow them to define what uptodate means
# [22:21] <tw2113> notice the word "market"
# [22:21] <paul_irish> its a combination of iE7 and Ie8
# [22:21] <tw2113> :D
# [22:22] <paul_irish> just what we wanted. another frankenbrowser.
# [22:22] <Daskreech> paul_irish: are the context of when it chooses one reaction or the other known or documented?
# [22:22] <paul_irish> doubt it
# [22:23] <Daskreech> well we shall see when they make it a hybrid of IE7 8 and 9 with the coming update what they do
# [22:23] <tw2113> i just ignore their products whenever possible
# [22:24] <Daskreech> while keeping a tall finger around?
# [22:24] <tw2113> it stays in my pocket
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# [22:31] <Evet> someone should suggest me an IDE for html5 development :\
# [22:32] <paul_irish> awwwwwww he just left... http://masondesu.com/ check out View Best Feature
# [22:33] <jetienne> window.postMessage(message) <- message MUST be a string ? or may be a js object ?
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# [22:38] <jetienne> ok i will do a json wrapper for safety :)=
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# [22:41] <snover> jetienne: must be string.
# [22:41] <miketaylr> but objects work too
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# [22:42] <miketaylr> eh...at least in opera, dunno the x-browser caveats there
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# [22:43] <jetienne> snover: ok
# [22:45] <snover> miketaylr: fx is a string only, or was, dunno if it has changed; i’m looking at the spec and it says “structured clone” now
# [22:45] <miketaylr> yeah
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# [22:45] <miketaylr> so buyer beware, strings are safe
# [22:46] <jetienne> structured clone = like not a full fs object, but basic data. hash/array/string/number kinda ?
# [22:48] <snover> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/urls.html#structured-clone
# [22:48] <miketaylr> essentially a new object with the same value
# [22:48] <snover> kinda barfo that it will throw if you have a function attached
# [22:49] <jetienne> hmmm i would say i prefer ietf kinda of spec... if i may :)
# [22:49] <jetienne> who is able to memorize all those algo in the spec ?
# [22:49] <miketaylr> nobody
# [22:49] <jetienne> im reasssured :)
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# [23:01] <Neiluj> paul_irish: any idea about selectivizr domready issue ? searching alternatives...
# [23:01] <paul_irish> what about andrea giammarchi's technique
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# [23:01] <Neiluj> url ?
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# [23:03] <paul_irish> ?g ajaxian andrea domcontentloaded ie
# [23:03] <bot-t> paul_irish, Ajaxian � More fun with DOMContentLoaded - http://ajaxian.com/archives/more-fun-with-domcontentloaded
# [23:03] <Neiluj> you rock ;)
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# [23:04] <Neiluj> ajaxian was missing on my searches
# [23:04] <paul_irish> hmm i think he might've ended up with a doscroll variation
# [23:04] <paul_irish> those ajaxian threads have most of the discussion
# [23:04] <Neiluj> damn yeah
# [23:04] <paul_irish> and probably dean edwards' one
# [23:05] <Neiluj> something I don't really understand : jQuery domready works with lazy load right ? so what is the point ?
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# [23:07] <paul_irish> nah it doesnt
# [23:07] <paul_irish> also why cant you just use document.readyState ?!
# [23:11] <Neiluj> sorry but what do you mean by "doesnt" :)
# [23:11] <Neiluj> I'm loading jquery with yepnope and $(function() {}) works just fine
# [23:12] <Neiluj> I didn't test on IE...
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# [23:13] <Neiluj> tested, it works for me so I don't understand which part doesn't work :(
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# [23:14] <Neiluj> SlexAxton: yepnope({load: '//googleapi'}) doesn't work ?
# [23:14] <SlexAxton> you mean relative urls?
# [23:14] <SlexAxton> rather protocol relative urls
# [23:15] <SlexAxton> it may work natively, but regardless, there's an officially supported filter
# [23:15] <danielfilho> did anyone here had a problem with google analytics on ie (ok, i know, ie), that it put some querystrings after a .exe file link, then the link comes without extension? :/
# [23:15] <SlexAxton> called autoprotocol
# [23:15] <danielfilho> i mean, the file is saved without extension.
# [23:16] <SlexAxton> but since we changed from using labjs - it may just _work_ (but you just downgraded to the old version, so you may need the autoprotocol filter)
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# [23:25] <Neiluj> SlexAxton: did you say you're not using LABjs anymore in 1.0 or did I misunderstand ?
# [23:25] <Neiluj> SlexAxton: found the filter, great
# [23:25] <SlexAxton> yes, we dropped it
# [23:26] <SlexAxton> wrote a smaller more specific one
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# [23:26] <Neiluj> I'm really curious about it, I attempted to make a LABjs wrapper for my own needs : img & template loader
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# [23:28] <Neiluj> I have this specific ejohn's micro-template implementation which is not using <script type="blabla"> but lazy loading, and a custom loader would be really great
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# [23:29] <SlexAxton> in the new one we use the 'preload somehow as a nonexecutable resource' - 'force cache' - 'then reinject later as a script or link tag and it runs immediately because it's cached'
# [23:29] <SlexAxton> method
# [23:33] <Neiluj> doesn't LABjs use the same method
# [23:33] <Neiluj> ?
# [23:34] <Neiluj> I'll have a look at your source
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# [23:37] <ralphholzmann> Neiluj: LABjs uses that method in _most_ but not _all_ cases
# [23:38] <ralphholzmann> yepnope's new loader preloads in _all_ cases
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# [23:38] <Neiluj> ralphholzmann: ok get it, thx :)
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# [23:53] <Neiluj> SlexAxton: reading the way you manage the resources types, looks pretty hard to extend
# [23:54] <Neiluj> c || j, nothing else :/
# [23:54] <SlexAxton> those are just internal queues
# [23:54] <SlexAxton> as long as it's invalid
# [23:55] <SlexAxton> it'll preload
# [23:55] <SlexAxton> that codepath doesn't even always exist
# [23:55] <Neiluj> how could I "easily" make a plugin that will extend yepnope for loading none-script-nor-css files ?
# [23:58] <SlexAxton> we hadn't intended on being a generic preloader
# [23:58] <SlexAxton> but if you exposed the preloadFile function
# [23:58] <Neiluj> yeah I know :)
# [23:58] <SlexAxton> you'd probably get pretty far
# [23:58] <SlexAxton> we keep an internal queue of dependencies that you won't get access to
# [23:58] <SlexAxton> but the logic is there
# [23:59] <Neiluj> okay
# Session Close: Tue Feb 01 00:00:00 2011

The end :)