/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-02-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Feb 08 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:00] <key> the content will potentially contain several sections
  4. # [00:00] <paul_irish> :(
  5. # [00:00] <nimbupani> you are so horrible paul_irish
  6. # [00:00] <tw2113> key, i've been using article for a lot of "main content" sections
  7. # [00:00] <tw2113> especially blog posts
  8. # [00:00] <key> yea but i can see those being articls
  9. # [00:00] <key> cles
  10. # [00:01] <paul_irish> i'm sorry nimbupani :(
  11. # [00:01] <key> the content of a corp site isn't an article generally
  12. # [00:01] <nimbupani> pffft
  13. # [00:01] <key> article has header info, whereas corp sites replace header with site navigation/menu
  14. # [00:01] <tw2113> could it go out and make sense on its own or in an rss feed key ?
  15. # [00:01] <key> no
  16. # [00:01] <key> it isn't a blog post dude
  17. # [00:01] <key> it's a corporate web site/page
  18. # [00:01] <tw2113> i realize that
  19. # [00:02] <key> then why are you even thinking rss syndication?
  20. # [00:02] <tw2113> but wouldn't the page content act as its own containing piece of work?
  21. # [00:02] <svenlito> key: use the outliner, if it makes sense, use it.
  22. # [00:02] * Quits: nimbupani (~Adium@cm-84.215.188.14.getinternet.no) (Quit: Leaving.)
  23. # [00:02] <key> outliner?
  24. # [00:02] <tw2113> http://gsnedders.html5.org/outliner/
  25. # [00:02] <svenlito> exactly
  26. # [00:02] <key> what do i do?
  27. # [00:03] <tw2113> remember outlines for reports in HS?
  28. # [00:03] <key> barely
  29. # [00:03] <tw2113> hiearchy in the notes
  30. # [00:03] <key> ah, yea
  31. # [00:03] <tw2113> you had your key points, and below each key point was more info regarding that section
  32. # [00:03] <key> btw, from the section spec, "The section element is not a generic container element. When an element is needed for styling purposes or as a convenience for scripting, authors are encouraged to use the div element instead."
  33. # [00:03] <tw2113> same thing with websites
  34. # [00:03] <antonkovalyov> i am angry as well paul_irish
  35. # [00:03] <key> sure, a logical breakdown or overview
  36. # [00:03] <key> uhm yea
  37. # [00:03] <antonkovalyov> no idea why though :(
  38. # [00:03] <key> and?
  39. # [00:04] <tw2113> that site will go through an algorithm to see how the site outlines
  40. # [00:04] <tw2113> logical hierarchy
  41. # [00:04] <key> ah cool, i look forward to seeing how it works
  42. # [00:04] <key> nice
  43. # [00:04] <key> so from the above paste, i know i don't want a generic container div for the content area
  44. # [00:04] <tw2113> articles/sections/asides/etc are all part of that
  45. # [00:05] <tw2113> http://html5doctor.com/the-article-element/ another good read
  46. # [00:06] <key> read it yesterday, reading it again now
  47. # [00:06] <svenlito> what was the other outliner? the above is 'still' broken
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  49. # [00:06] <key> let me ask this, does an article have to have header/headlines?
  50. # [00:06] <tw2113> this one svenlito ? http://code.google.com/p/h5o/
  51. # [00:06] <svenlito> key: it could
  52. # [00:07] <key> not, it must?
  53. # [00:07] <svenlito> tw2113: nope, it was a hosted one
  54. # [00:07] <svenlito> trying to find it in my bookmarks
  55. # [00:08] <tw2113> dunno then, but i'm also tweaking sites for IE too
  56. # [00:10] <svenlito> man i could swear there was another one..
  57. # [00:10] <tw2113> so you know, temporarily not all right in the head :D
  58. # [00:11] <svenlito> temporarily
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  60. # [00:13] <svenlito> oh well
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  64. # [00:21] <key> i think <content> would have been a better tag name than <article>
  65. # [00:21] <key> eg, http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2010/html5-articles-and-sections-whats-the-difference/#comment-667884
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  68. # [00:27] <tw2113> well, think of it this way, if you don't think your content fits what the spec is saying the tag is used for, divs have not been depreciated at all
  69. # [00:29] <tw2113> i guarantee they won't twist your arm if you don't use it ;)
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  72. # [00:32] <key> i'm saying the idea behind article tag is good, and i understand semantically specialized container tags, i think the name is flawed
  73. # [00:33] <key> it implies too much, is too specific
  74. # [00:33] <key> i think <content> is superior
  75. # [00:33] <key> but i'll use it obviously
  76. # [00:34] <tw2113> i know #whatwg is available to plead your case with that camp :D
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  81. # [00:44] <ale_> hey people, can I get help about canvas on here?
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  84. # [00:46] <ale_> can I get help on canvas on here
  85. # [00:46] <tw2113> it hasn't been too active in here the past little bit
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  87. # [00:47] <tw2113> but best to just ask and hope someone peeks in who can help
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  99. # [00:52] <paul_irish> sorry i can't kick him.
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  103. # [00:53] <paul_irish> wow key.
  104. # [00:53] <antonkovalyov> who is op here?
  105. # [00:53] <antonkovalyov> i want to be an op here
  106. # [00:53] <paul_irish> nobody has op.
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  108. # [00:53] <key> sup?
  109. # [00:53] <antonkovalyov> :(
  110. # [00:53] <paul_irish> key is raising a lot of noise.
  111. # [00:53] <hober> in #whatwg too.
  112. # [00:53] * Joins: socialhapy (~socialhap@h55eb1e56.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net)
  113. # [00:54] <key> paul_irish: keep discussions in the # they happen in please
  114. # [00:54] <snover> bot-t: Tell peol ITS UR FAULT
  115. # [00:54] <bot-t> snover, Okay.
  116. # [00:54] <key> no need to be a busy body
  117. # [00:54] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@h55eb1e56.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  118. # [00:54] <paul_irish> key: dont tell me where to talk.
  119. # [00:54] <key> paul_irish: learn manners
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  122. # [00:55] <paul_irish> key: UR IGNORANT
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  124. # [00:55] <paul_irish> ?jdalton @ key
  125. # [00:55] <key> lol
  126. # [00:55] <bot-t> key, Daddy of sandboxed natives.
  127. # [00:55] <paul_irish> damn it.
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  137. # [01:01] <paul_irish> KB1JWQ: can u halpz
  138. # [01:01] <paul_irish> /ban *!*@h55eb1e56.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net
  139. # [01:01] <paul_irish> then again.. it seems to have stopped.
  140. # [01:01] <KB1JWQ> /mode +b *!*@h55eb1e56.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net$##fix_your_connection is the magic key here.
  141. # [01:01] <bot-t> (27 hours 50 mins ago) <snover> Tell KB1JWQ 205.186.153.192 is hitting shmpages limit.
  142. # [01:01] <KB1JWQ> ...
  143. # [01:02] <paul_irish> o.O
  144. # [01:02] <KB1JWQ> Great place for THAT to live.
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  152. # [01:10] <paul_irish> oh you're that hawaiian troll from the other day.
  153. # [01:10] <paul_irish> that makes a lot more sense.
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  164. # [01:28] <key> paul_irish: interesting to me that you keep talking, trying to stir problems up, then refer to me as a troll
  165. # [01:28] <key> and i'm not hawaiian, i just live here
  166. # [01:28] <paul_irish> cool.
  167. # [01:28] <benv_> aside: is 'dirty hawaiin' politically incorrect?
  168. # [01:29] * benv_ is now known as benv
  169. # [01:29] <key> probably in SF
  170. # [01:29] <benv> :)
  171. # [01:30] <key> everything in SF is hate speech though
  172. # [01:31] <paul_irish> even the food.
  173. # [01:31] <benv> lol
  174. # [01:31] <key> hehe
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  191. # [02:31] <key> http://gsnedders.html5.org/outliner/process.py is failing, does anyone know of another outliner?
  192. # [02:35] <franksalim> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/afoibpobokebhgfnknfndkgemglggomo
  193. # [02:36] <franksalim> (key)
  194. # [02:36] <key> ah, i don't use chrome :/
  195. # [02:36] <franksalim> http://code.google.com/p/h5o/
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  199. # [02:52] <JonathanNeal> see ya guys
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  203. # [02:55] * xonecas hello!
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  212. # [03:15] <key> hey all
  213. # [03:17] <xonecas> hey key
  214. # [03:17] <key> so i have an outline done, will you look at it?
  215. # [03:17] <xonecas> me?
  216. # [03:18] <key> sure, or someone
  217. # [03:18] <key> eh, nvm
  218. # [03:20] <key> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/sections.html#outline <- don't sections also contain footers?
  219. # [03:21] <xonecas> sure I'll look at it :-)
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  221. # [03:23] <xonecas> key: they can, but they don't need to
  222. # [03:23] <key> so the spec is wrong?
  223. # [03:24] <key> http://www.pastie.org/private/vjpeztiw7fkzjzsfoxpua
  224. # [03:25] <key> does that look like a good outline?
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  228. # [03:43] <xonecas> key: looks good! The spec is not wrong. On that same page you showed me, a few scrolls up, it explains that sections can contain footers if you need them
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  231. # [03:51] <key> ah ok
  232. # [03:51] <key> thanks for checking it out btw
  233. # [03:51] <key> :]
  234. # [03:54] <xonecas> key: no prblem :-)
  235. # [03:55] <key> xonecas: don't you think i should have a <p> around Content?
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  237. # [03:56] <xonecas> You should wrap your content as you see fit. I try to use a combination of block and inline elements so that it works in my favor laying out the page.
  238. # [03:57] <xonecas> I also wrap text into some tag, makes it easier to access it using js
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  242. # [04:01] <key> xonecas, what are the first css things i should start doing?
  243. # [04:01] <key> eg, i want to set the body bg
  244. # [04:01] <key> like, for the whole page
  245. # [04:05] <xonecas> ?mdc
  246. # [04:05] <bot-t> xonecas, Mozilla Developer Center - https://developer.mozilla.org/
  247. # [04:06] <xonecas> to set the background color of a page, give the html and body tags a background-color value
  248. # [04:06] <xonecas> key: start by placing everything where you want it. That'll give you plenty to do
  249. # [04:07] <key> but i need to also use colors, because i don't use a border on everything
  250. # [04:07] <key> sometimes just fills via bg colors
  251. # [04:07] <key> understand?
  252. # [04:11] <xonecas> not really :-/
  253. # [04:12] <key> well what do you mean by position things?
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  255. # [04:14] <xonecas> making sure the header is at the top, the footer at the bottom, and if you have collumns set them where you want them
  256. # [04:14] <xonecas> the structure of your content
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  259. # [04:19] <key> footer doens't have to be at the bottom only
  260. # [04:21] <xonecas> no, but since is name after a foot, and feet usually go in the bottom, you might want to keep it that way :-)
  261. # [04:22] <key> i thought so too until i saw a 'back to index' footer at the top and bottom of a page; made sense
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  263. # [04:23] <tw2113> evening miketaylr
  264. # [04:23] <miketaylr> hey mang
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  267. # [04:31] <xonecas> key: imho that "footer" showd've been a "header"
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  269. # [04:31] <key> yea i'd agree, but i can see how they were using it
  270. # [04:31] <key> it made snse
  271. # [04:31] <key> sense
  272. # [04:32] <key> a link back to index is a footer'ish kind of tool
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  274. # [04:32] <key> whereas on header typically you'd have intro material; title etc
  275. # [04:32] <key> headline, and the rest
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  277. # [04:32] <key> you could even put header'ish stuff on the bottom, and footer'ish stuff on the top
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  279. # [04:32] <key> depending on the user interaction paradigm you were thinking via
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  281. # [04:35] <xonecas> key: I guess I can see that :-)
  282. # [04:36] <key> xonecas: *nod*
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  294. # [05:21] <tw2113> anyone know truth to the idea that firefox is going to rapid fire releases i 2011?
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  297. # [05:26] <JonathanNeal> What do you guys recommend for textmate or e text editor for supporting html5 elements?
  298. # [05:26] <JonathanNeal> I saw https://github.com/johnmuhl/html5.tmbundle
  299. # [05:26] <tw2113> that's what i do or just type them out by hand
  300. # [05:27] <JonathanNeal> Well, I think what bums me the most is how html elements won't get the right color coding.
  301. # [05:27] <JonathanNeal> To be honest.
  302. # [05:28] <xonecas> JonathanNeal: I use vim, and there are colorschemes that highlight html5 elements
  303. # [05:28] <JonathanNeal> xonecas: but then I'd have to use vim.
  304. # [05:28] <JonathanNeal> :)
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  306. # [05:28] <xonecas> hehehe true
  307. # [05:29] <xonecas> look into Kod, its a very recent mac ox editor, it might support html5 syntax highlight
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  309. # [05:30] <tw2113> i do a lot of WordPress coding, and i just leave it on html highlighting
  310. # [05:31] <JonathanNeal> I edited e\Bundles\HTML.tmbundle\Syntaxes\HTML.plist and added some html5 elements in there to get the highlighting.
  311. # [05:31] <JonathanNeal> Because I finally complained.
  312. # [05:32] <xonecas> haha
  313. # [05:32] <xonecas> there you go :-)
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  315. # [05:34] <JonathanNeal> article, aside, nav, section, time let's see
  316. # [05:34] <tw2113> figure, figcaption
  317. # [05:34] <tw2113> header, footer
  318. # [05:34] <JonathanNeal> That's the one I always forget, because I don't use it too often.
  319. # [05:35] <JonathanNeal> I'm still deciding how to properly use microdata.
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  321. # [05:37] <JonathanNeal> ?html5doctor figure
  322. # [05:37] <bot-t> JonathanNeal, jquery | HTML5 Doctor - http://html5doctor.com/tag/jquery/
  323. # [05:37] <JonathanNeal> so one track minded, bot-t
  324. # [05:38] <tw2113> what do you expect, jquery people programmed it
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  326. # [05:39] <JonathanNeal> ?bot-t, are you chainable?
  327. # [05:39] <bot-t> JonathanNeal, 3 - Designed by Christopher Hill, ChillTip is a JQuery Plugin that allows you to have a custom designed tooltip for your website. It can be used for span, img, anchor attributes and pretty much anythin... http://plugins.jquery.com/projects/plugins?page=2&keywords=&type=All&sort_by=changed
  328. # [05:39] <JonathanNeal> I think I asked that wrong.
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  339. # [06:06] <KDN> Pretty cool ussage of HTML http://thisshell.com/ - Music video / game
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  357. # [06:53] <Neiluj> yup
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  394. # [08:33] <Neiluj> ohh yayyy !
  395. # [08:34] <Neiluj> finally !
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  404. # [08:48] <hrwath> hello
  405. # [08:48] <hrwath> where can I read about data-* attributes?
  406. # [08:48] <hrwath> I know that they exist and that's all ;-)
  407. # [08:49] <hrwath> and I want to look closer
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  409. # [08:50] <daleharvey> hrwath: there isnt much more to them
  410. # [08:51] <hrwath> okay, I found it
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  436. # [10:12] <mike5w3c> Peter`: you around? wanted to ask if you had already blogged about webkit{Decoded,Dropped}Frames and webkit{Audio,Video}BytesDecoded already
  437. # [10:13] <Peter`> briefly, I mentioned it
  438. # [10:13] <mike5w3c> ok
  439. # [10:13] <Peter`> .."and Google has started on implementing media statistics"
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  442. # [10:13] <Peter`> There's not a lot to tell yet, neither is it available in Chromium
  443. # [10:14] <mike5w3c> yep
  444. # [10:16] <key> hey guys, if i want to constrain my content to 960px wide and centered in my body, should i wrap it all with an <article> or just modify <body> directly?
  445. # [10:17] <Peter`> Sounds like you shouldn't use an <article> element for that in the first place
  446. # [10:17] <key> why not
  447. # [10:17] <key> the whole doc is an article
  448. # [10:17] <Peter`> Right. I'm not going to debate that now
  449. # [10:18] <key> why not?
  450. # [10:18] <key> im looking to discuss, not debate/argue
  451. # [10:18] <Peter`> Yes, but I've had the debate (or discussion) several times already, and there's quite a pile of work to do :)
  452. # [10:18] <Peter`> Sorry
  453. # [10:19] <key> can you give me a summary of the points from each camp?
  454. # [10:19] <Peter`> http://html5doctor.com/the-article-element/
  455. # [10:20] <key> read it
  456. # [10:20] <key> yesterday and today
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  458. # [10:25] <key> Peter`: would you prefer a DIV instead of article to wrap?
  459. # [10:25] <Peter`> It should be a <div> element
  460. # [10:26] <Peter`> I'm not per se opposed to using <body> to center the page
  461. # [10:26] <Peter`> but that depends on the page itself.
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  465. # [10:33] <phrearch> morning
  466. # [10:34] <key> Peter`: do you agree with what z said? would you fix content width and center it by affecting <body>?
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  468. # [10:37] <Peter`> <Peter`> I'm not per se opposed to using <body> to center the page
  469. # [10:37] <Peter`> so yeah, you could do that
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  472. # [10:43] <key> these 'semantic' tags are really buggin me
  473. # [10:43] <key> so ambiguous where actually to use them
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  476. # [10:47] <nimbu> key: really u should use them only when you find a need to use them
  477. # [10:47] <nimbu> otherwise dont.
  478. # [10:48] <key> nimbu: yea it's like, starting to hold up my progress, heh
  479. # [10:49] <key> every time i think i finally have my design nailed, i think of another problem
  480. # [10:49] <jetienne> http://html5doctor.com/article-archive/ provides guidelines on new tags in "ht,l5 semantic" section
  481. # [10:51] <nimbu> your design should have nothing to do with the markup
  482. # [10:54] <key> i'm speaking logically, in which case it does have something to do with th emark up
  483. # [10:54] <key> im trying to harmonize html 5's semantic tags with the logical structure of my web page
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  486. # [10:58] <phrearch> sorry to interrupt, but are semantic tags used already for some useful searching yet?
  487. # [10:58] <nimbu> no
  488. # [10:58] <key> not that i know of
  489. # [10:58] <nimbu> ur logical structure has nothing to do with the design O_O
  490. # [10:58] <phrearch> i only did some reading about rdf, but rdf seems too overengineered to me
  491. # [10:58] <phrearch> ok
  492. # [10:58] <nimbu> yes use microdata phrearch
  493. # [10:59] <key> nimbu, not sure what you're talking about
  494. # [10:59] <nimbu> i prefer it over rdfa :|
  495. # [10:59] <key> im trying to figure out the best html to select to reflect my web site design
  496. # [10:59] <nimbu> your website design has really nothing to do with the markup.
  497. # [10:59] <nimbu> you can use same css for divs and section
  498. # [10:59] <nimbu> +s
  499. # [10:59] <phrearch> nimbu: one thing i like about rdf is that you can query multiple sites for info. are there simular projects for microdata?
  500. # [10:59] <nimbu> well google does index all three
  501. # [11:00] <nimbu> rdf + microdata + microformats
  502. # [11:00] <key> nimbu, i know you can, but i'm trying to adopt html 5 semantic tags where possible
  503. # [11:00] <phrearch> sure, but it would be nice if site owners can query themselves
  504. # [11:00] <nimbu> key: you can do that once you have finalized your design
  505. # [11:02] <jetienne> http://html5doctor.com/html5-seo-search-engine-optimisation/ <- apparently microdata are used to index pages
  506. # [11:03] <key> nimbu, my design is done. i'm trying to figure out the best way to reflect it in html
  507. # [11:04] <key> is my main menu a nav, a div, a nav within an article, etc?
  508. # [11:04] <key> questions like that
  509. # [11:04] <nimbu> the simplest answer is usually the one you should go with
  510. # [11:04] <nimbu> menu = nav
  511. # [11:04] <nimbu> thats all
  512. # [11:05] <key> ok. it's at the top of the web page, so is it a nav within a header?
  513. # [11:06] <nimbu> is it the nav for the header or the nav for the page?
  514. # [11:06] <nimbu> you could put it all within the header
  515. # [11:06] <nimbu> if the header is what will be common on all pages
  516. # [11:06] <nimbu> or you can put it outside
  517. # [11:06] <nimbu> it doesnt matter
  518. # [11:07] <nimbu> what matters is if you are using the right element
  519. # [11:07] <key> that's what im trying to do
  520. # [11:07] <key> that's the question
  521. # [11:07] <key> the nav will appear on all pages yes
  522. # [11:07] <key> it's the main menu
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  524. # [11:07] <key> but i read header is for headline tags, etc
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  526. # [11:08] <key> this just is a nav, so im not sure if a header is appropriate
  527. # [11:08] <phrearch> hey
  528. # [11:08] <nimbu> ?g whatwg multi-page header
  529. # [11:08] <nimbu> o damn
  530. # [11:08] <phrearch> is there some info about using webworkers in a useful way with canvas?
  531. # [11:08] <phrearch> especially in terms of performance
  532. # [11:09] <nimbu> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/sections.html#the-header-element
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  534. # [11:09] <nimbu> "http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/sections.html#the-header-element"
  535. # [11:09] <jetienne> phrearch: draw on the canvas from the webworker ?
  536. # [11:09] <nimbu> oops "Note: A header element is intended to usually contain the section's heading (an h1–h6 element or an hgroup element), but this is not required. The header element can also be used to wrap a section's table of contents, a search form, or any relevant logos."
  537. # [11:09] <nimbu> it really is simple
  538. # [11:10] <phrearch> jetienne: not directly, but let some of the number crunching be done from another thread
  539. # [11:10] <key> nimbu, what's difficult is the ambiguity
  540. # [11:10] <nimbu> there were many demos with that.
  541. # [11:10] <key> you can use header, you don't have to... SO WHY HAVE IT
  542. # [11:10] <phrearch> i read that a webworker is allowed to process imagedata
  543. # [11:10] <jetienne> phrearch: i have seen people doing it for webgl computation. they said it improved smoothness on the screen, and speed as well.
  544. # [11:11] <nimbu> so that you can skip a header if necessary
  545. # [11:11] <nimbu> and go straight to content
  546. # [11:11] <phrearch> hm that would be interesting for filters
  547. # [11:11] <jetienne> phrearch: it improve speed because you no more have to split your computation in small part. so less overhead
  548. # [11:11] <nimbu> phrearch: i thought google's last year's I/O demo had canvas and webworkers?
  549. # [11:12] <phrearch> ok cool. im working on a canvaspainter as well. for filters this may be a nice option
  550. # [11:12] <jetienne> http://ejohn.org/blog/web-workers/ some raytracing with canva+webworker
  551. # [11:12] <phrearch> https://github.com/phrearch/Collapaint
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  554. # [11:12] <jetienne> phrearch: so yes this is usefull
  555. # [11:12] <phrearch> ow cool
  556. # [11:12] <phrearch> would be the first time i'll use webworkers
  557. # [11:13] <phrearch> first need to finish basic stuff on this yet-another-paint-app. working on layers atm
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  559. # [11:15] <phrearch> brushes are kinda difficult to make :/
  560. # [11:15] <jetienne> harmony got some
  561. # [11:16] <phrearch> yea, im trying to build something simular, but got to reinvent the wheel here, since the licenses dont match
  562. # [11:16] <phrearch> i need something bsd compatible
  563. # [11:16] <phrearch> i really like those brushes
  564. # [11:17] <phrearch> there is also another paint app which does a good job, forgot its name
  565. # [11:18] <phrearch> ah http://muro.deviantart.com/
  566. # [11:19] <phrearch> anyway, direct painting to canvas using a webworker isnt possible. only processing the pixeldata
  567. # [11:19] <phrearch> there are probably more use-cases for this
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  574. # [11:29] <jetienne> i dont think you can pass dom element between iframe either
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  589. # [12:02] <key> i have a main menu at the top of my page, then a section which has a section menu + the content. so would i do nav id=main-menu, then section id="section", then nav, then article?
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  593. # [12:15] <key> i have a main menu (<nav>) at the top of my page, then a section (<section>) which has a section menu (<nav>) + the page content (<article>). so would i do nav id=main-menu, then section id="section", then nav, then article?
  594. # [12:16] <althie> I would do something like this <header><nav>Main menu</nav></header><section><header><nav>Section menu</nav></header><article>Page content</article></section>
  595. # [12:17] <althie> But depends also from your content type
  596. # [12:18] <Neiluj> hey key ;)
  597. # [12:19] <Neiluj> <header><nav></nav></header>
  598. # [12:19] <Neiluj> <section><nav></nav><article><article><article><article></section>
  599. # [12:19] <Neiluj> no need to "id" them
  600. # [12:22] <key> hey bro!
  601. # [12:23] <key> dunno fellas, seems redundant to wrap a menu in nav AND header
  602. # [12:23] <key> especially when i have no headline in there
  603. # [12:23] <Neiluj> have a mockup to show me ?
  604. # [12:24] <key> know of an easy to use web drawing or mock up service? i dont have my 'web dev arsenal' installed
  605. # [12:24] <Neiluj> :)
  606. # [12:24] <Neiluj> try with ASCII ? :D
  607. # [12:24] <key> k sec
  608. # [12:24] <Neiluj> was kidding :p
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  610. # [12:25] <Neiluj> try https://gomockingbird.com/
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  612. # [12:26] <Neiluj> ah damn, not free for save
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  624. # [13:18] <cheilmann_> I have a new site to send to people who love resizing images in html for thumbnails
  625. # [13:18] <cheilmann_> http://www.arngren.net/
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  639. # [14:37] <mokush> any suggestions with a workaround for input type=file on mobile browsers?
  640. # [14:38] <nimbupani> not render it?
  641. # [14:40] <mokush> nimbupani: it's disabled on iphone and android.
  642. # [14:40] <mokush> nimbupani: and I found out that the browsers actualy disable them. http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=2519
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  644. # [14:41] <nimbupani> yeah mobile devices dont allow file access
  645. # [14:41] <nimbupani> most of them as far as i know
  646. # [14:42] <mokush> nimbupani: is there any other solution then?
  647. # [14:42] <nimbupani> create a native app?
  648. # [14:43] <mokush> nimbupani: :(
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  690. # [16:45] <Brodingo> good svg tutorials?
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  705. # [17:12] <niftylettuce> does anyone know of an open source HTML5 file upload project? (drag/drop, multiple users, email notifications etc...)
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  707. # [17:13] <niftylettuce> i was thinking of writing database stuff in Ruby and was looking for an easy route on the HTML5 side
  708. # [17:13] <niftylettuce> basically FTP for the modern web
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  711. # [17:18] <cheilmann> there are some
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  714. # [17:19] <cheilmann> there are a few linked in the comments: http://hacks.mozilla.org/2011/01/how-to-develop-a-html5-image-uploader/
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  718. # [17:23] <mike5w3c> but 7260
  719. # [17:23] <mike5w3c> bug 7260
  720. # [17:23] <mike5w3c> @bug 7260
  721. # [17:23] <mike5w3c> hmm
  722. # [17:23] <mike5w3c> oops
  723. # [17:23] <mike5w3c> (wrong channel)
  724. # [17:24] <snover> WTG MIKE
  725. # [17:24] <niftylettuce> lol
  726. # [17:24] * mike5w3c pats himself on the back
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  728. # [17:27] <niftylettuce> http://www.thebuzzmedia.com/html5-drag-and-drop-and-file-api-tutorial/ -- would something like this work in IE7/8 (pre IE) ?
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  732. # [17:34] <tw2113> anyone know what font the Opera icon uses?
  733. # [17:40] <Pewpewarrows> niftylettuce: the file api isn't present in IE <9
  734. # [17:40] <niftylettuce> Pewpewarrows, any fallback exist? just regular POST?
  735. # [17:41] <Pewpewarrows> niftylettuce: depends, some libraries take care of that nicely for you
  736. # [17:42] <Pewpewarrows> some like uploadify fall back to flash, others like http://aquantum-demo.appspot.com/file-upload handle it regardless
  737. # [17:42] <Pewpewarrows> (I'm currently playing around with the later, and am quite enjoying it)
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  739. # [17:44] <JonathanNeal> hello
  740. # [17:45] <niftylettuce> yo \o/
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  743. # [17:48] <JonathanNeal> \o\ /o/
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  745. # [17:50] <mahen23> paul_irish: ?omgpaul
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  747. # [17:50] <mahen23> hey i can haz html5 too: http://mobilemru.com/html5/
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  749. # [17:51] <paul_irish> cool
  750. # [17:51] <mahen23> and its ajax too
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  752. # [17:53] <paul_irish> ?jazzhands
  753. # [17:53] <bot-t> *Jazz Hands!* http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/66831554_1e1630590f.jpg
  754. # [17:54] <paul_irish> ?w Mauritius
  755. # [17:54] <bot-t> paul_irish, No results found for 'Mauritius'.
  756. # [17:54] <cheilmann> ?w rickroll
  757. # [17:54] <bot-t> cheilmann, No results found for 'rickroll'.
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  759. # [17:56] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, check mahen23's link... someone wrote something
  760. # [17:57] <paul_irish> huh. i should find who wrote that. thanks for the tip, nifty!
  761. # [17:58] <danielfilho> hahaha, paul saying "ohhh yeahhh... hot pink all around!" on his presentation is fun! hahah
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  763. # [17:59] <tw2113> paul just doesn't like boring presentations, he spices it up a little
  764. # [17:59] <danielfilho> tw2113: with hot pink all around! neat! :D
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  810. # [19:01] <cgcardona> JonathanNeal: sorry about the delayed response - I am in the process of moving back to the bay area from kauai - when I get back I plan on doing some recording and then I'd be stoked to put it up on the site :)
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  816. # [19:10] <JonathanNeal> cgcardona: excellent.
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  818. # [19:11] <cgcardona> i love how on irc you can just answer someone 24 hours later and it's all good :)
  819. # [19:12] <tw2113> i think you weren't off packing, you were off playing with IE :D
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  828. # [19:29] <paul_irish> thursday is IE9RC1 day!
  829. # [19:29] <boaz> W00t!
  830. # [19:30] <tw2113> now to just get FF4 final and WordPress 3.1
  831. # [19:31] <paul_irish> there will be ff4b11 tomorrow or something.. and ff4b12 after that
  832. # [19:32] <paul_irish> and then.. i guess.. an RC? i'm not sure
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  834. # [19:32] <nimbupani> pfff
  835. # [19:33] <nimbupani> how longggg
  836. # [19:33] <paul_irish> well .. i imagine this is why they're changing things up and planning to put out ff7 by EOY
  837. # [19:34] <nimbupani> :)
  838. # [19:34] <tw2113> what? you mean that's not simply to catch up with version #s?
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  843. # [19:41] <paul_irish> no its purely done for engineering reasons. in fact it makes it harder to market the browser
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  877. # [20:58] <niftylettuce> http://aquantum-demo.appspot.com/file-upload is that a good working example?
  878. # [20:58] <paul_irish> yes
  879. # [20:59] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: kk thank you, ps that was me who wrote paul irish <3's HP earlier
  880. # [20:59] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: as I'm sure you already knew...
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  893. # [21:21] <Peter`> paulrouget: that tweet was serious, right?
  894. # [21:21] <paulrouget> Peter`: which one?
  895. # [21:22] <paulrouget> Peter`: about the status bar?
  896. # [21:22] <Peter`> Yes, http://i.imgur.com/k9T6V.png
  897. # [21:22] <paulrouget> Peter`: yes, it was.
  898. # [21:22] <Peter`> Ok, thanks
  899. # [21:23] <Peter`> I think it looks good :) Perhaps a bit too light with the dark theme.
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  919. # [22:00] * Quits: symb (symb@p54A7B46D.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.)
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  922. # [22:05] <tw2113> ping thatryan
  923. # [22:05] * Quits: Titosemi (~titosemi@g229019027.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
  924. # [22:06] <thatryan> yo
  925. # [22:06] <tw2113> still got forrst invites?
  926. # [22:06] <thatryan> i have one yeah, have not given it out yet
  927. # [22:07] <tw2113> do you care who it goes to?
  928. # [22:07] <paul_irish> tw2113: just go into #forrst-chat .. talk about butts and they'll love you.
  929. # [22:07] <thatryan> lol
  930. # [22:07] <thatryan> tw2113: you want ?
  931. # [22:07] <thatryan> you have to post good shit though! ;P
  932. # [22:07] <tw2113> i am already there, but we have a new guy that could use it
  933. # [22:07] * Joins: symb (~symb@cthulhu.eth4.net)
  934. # [22:08] * Joins: jeffszusz (~jeffszusz@205.211.89.51)
  935. # [22:08] <tw2113> but i figured i'd get your ok to give it to him
  936. # [22:08] <paul_irish> http://www.danhigbie.com O.O
  937. # [22:09] <thatryan> that guy?
  938. # [22:09] <tw2113> no, no one in here
  939. # [22:09] <thatryan> i dont see you in forrst
  940. # [22:11] <paul_irish> The Being Better is done with transforms and lettering.js
  941. # [22:14] * Joins: MissionCritical (~MissionCr@unaffiliated/missioncritical)
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  946. # [22:37] <paul_irish> nimbupani: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/wa-html5boilerplate/index.html
  947. # [22:37] <nimbupani> WTF?!
  948. # [22:37] <nimbupani> ha its ur friend
  949. # [22:38] <symb> paul_irish: nice :) congrats
  950. # [22:40] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@h55eb1e56.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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  952. # [22:44] * Joins: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
  953. # [22:45] <key> http://www.pastie.org/private/z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua <-- RFC
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  956. # [23:01] <paul_irish> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/HTML/HTML5/Optimizing_Your_Pages_for_Speculative_Parsing
  957. # [23:03] * Joins: andrewjbaker (~ajb@client-82-26-220-64.pete.adsl.virginmedia.com)
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  960. # [23:09] <key> http://www.pastie.org/private/z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua <-- RFC
  961. # [23:11] <tw2113> RFC?
  962. # [23:11] <key> request for comment
  963. # [23:11] <tw2113> ah
  964. # [23:13] * Quits: dcadenas_ (~dcadenas@r186-48-195-223.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  965. # [23:14] <andrewjbaker> key, pop your content in an <article> element.
  966. # [23:14] * Quits: cocoadaemon (~cocoadaem@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:20d:93ff:fe3b:868c) (Quit: cocoadaemon)
  967. # [23:15] <andrewjbaker> key, why the gap between Main and Section?
  968. # [23:18] <key> because it's how i want to design the site
  969. # [23:18] <andrewjbaker> key, I mean, what's gonna' go in the gap?
  970. # [23:18] <key> uh, empty space?
  971. # [23:19] <andrewjbaker> key, hmm, OK.
  972. # [23:19] <key> i added a <HEADER> around my main-menu NAV
  973. # [23:20] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@h55eb1e56.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  974. # [23:20] <key> i was thinking about putting my content in an ARTICLE
  975. # [23:20] <paul_irish> ff4beta11 is out
  976. # [23:20] * Joins: socialhapy (~socialhap@h55eb1e56.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net)
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  978. # [23:21] <key> andrewjbaker: i'm not sure about putting an article tag around my content
  979. # [23:21] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, got your YouTube vid. to watch... ;-)
  980. # [23:21] * Joins: toinso (~toinso@unaffiliated/toinso)
  981. # [23:21] <key> it won't be able to stand on its own and it's not intended to be syndicated outside of my site
  982. # [23:22] * tw2113 stays out of the <article> debate
  983. # [23:22] <key> lol
  984. # [23:23] <andrewjbaker> tw2113, coward.^^
  985. # [23:23] * Quits: jamesarosen (~jamesaros@c-98-207-16-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  986. # [23:23] * tw2113 bawks at himself
  987. # [23:25] <key> http://www.pastie.org/private/z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua
  988. # [23:26] <key> ok how about that?
  989. # [23:26] <key> added header around my primary nav, and wrapped content in article
  990. # [23:27] <JonathanNeal> Looks good.
  991. # [23:27] <key> any other fine tuning i can do? i want this thing perfect before i begin styling
  992. # [23:27] <key> JonathanNeal: thank you for your input btw
  993. # [23:28] <tw2113> ha, perfect
  994. # [23:28] <tw2113> where's the fun in that
  995. # [23:28] <key> being able to move to the next step :)
  996. # [23:29] <andrewjbaker> That's what iterations are for. ;-)
  997. # [23:29] <key> that's what this process is ;-)
  998. # [23:30] <JonathanNeal> I'm winking %(
  999. # [23:30] <tw2113> pink eye winking?
  1000. # [23:31] <key> someone fart on your pillow?
  1001. # [23:34] <line> hey, i'm looking for any library for kinetic scrolling of container with support for mobile devices
  1002. # [23:34] * Quits: plh_ (~plh@30-5-5.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Quit: always accept cookies)
  1003. # [23:34] <line> like http://cubiq.org/iscroll
  1004. # [23:34] * Joins: benschwarz (~benschwar@ppp59-167-179-123.static.internode.on.net)
  1005. # [23:34] <line> and with full browser set support
  1006. # [23:34] * Joins: plh_ (~plh@30-5-5.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  1007. # [23:35] <line> iScroll is working only with webkit :(
  1008. # [23:35] * Quits: plh_ (~plh@30-5-5.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Client Quit)
  1009. # [23:36] <line> any ideas?
  1010. # [23:36] <paul_irish> line: i've only seen it for mobile, which means webkit solutions... dont know of anyone that built it out for everyone else.
  1011. # [23:36] <bot-t> (15 secs ago) <DMGregory> tell paul_irish Did you see the HSL update I made based on your suggestion? http://DMGregory.ca
  1012. # [23:37] <line> http://www.azoffdesign.com/plugins/js/overscroll
  1013. # [23:37] <Neiluj_> line: iScroll is the best I saw and uses some webkit features to be so fluid
  1014. # [23:37] <line> working in firefox
  1015. # [23:37] * Quits: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@31-35-219.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  1016. # [23:37] <line> but a bit laggy :(
  1017. # [23:37] <Neiluj_> line: overscroll is not as good as iscroll, already tried
  1018. # [23:38] <paul_irish> that's very cool though.
  1019. # [23:38] <Neiluj_> iscroll is using css3 transformations
  1020. # [23:38] <Neiluj_> that's why
  1021. # [23:38] <line> yeah, i've seen
  1022. # [23:38] <paul_irish> it'd be good to merge the two
  1023. # [23:38] <Neiluj_> paul_irish: indeed
  1024. # [23:39] <Neiluj_> off-topic, isotope is crazy !
  1025. # [23:40] * snover is now known as me
  1026. # [23:41] * me is now known as snover
  1027. # [23:42] <Neiluj_> line: probably use yepnope with webkit detection :P
  1028. # [23:42] <Neiluj_> test: isWebkit, yep: 'iscroll.js', nope: 'overscroll.js'
  1029. # [23:42] * Joins: MattDiPa_ (~MattDiPas@rrcs-184-74-229-10.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  1030. # [23:43] <paul_irish> heh nice.
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  1032. # [23:43] <Neiluj_> line: anyway for browser support I would tell you to not do that, because some have already kinetic scrolling and you can't detect it
  1033. # [23:44] <Neiluj_> I mean desktop browsers
  1034. # [23:45] <Neiluj_> software AND hardware... the only possible way to detect is to wait and catch a "real" scroll and see if it "looks" like a kinetic one :)
  1035. # [23:47] * Joins: Nakre (~Nakre@78.167.128.191)
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  1038. # [23:53] <andrewjbaker> I've asked this question before, but didn't get an answer. :-s Does drawImage() with scale always perform sub-pixel interpolation?
  1039. # [23:54] <andrewjbaker> Tested in Mozilla Firefox and Google Chrome OK.
  1040. # [23:54] <paul_irish> i believe so yes.
  1041. # [23:54] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, yay.
  1042. # [23:54] <paul_irish> andrewjbaker: see also http://sebleedelisle.com/2011/02/html5-canvas-sprite-optimisation/
  1043. # [23:54] * Joins: BrianBlakely (~Adium@user-12lcofe.cable.mindspring.com)
  1044. # [23:55] <BrianBlakely> Hi all, I need a rec for a Git client on OS X
  1045. # [23:56] <paul_irish> git tower for a GUI
  1046. # [23:56] <BrianBlakely> I'll shall give her a spin, thanks
  1047. # [23:56] <BrianBlakely> I shall*
  1048. # [23:57] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, yeah... read that a day or so ago and it prompted me to anti-alias terrain farthest from the viewer and leaving the closer terrain un-anti-aliased. Sped my renderer up a fraction.
  1049. # [23:59] * Quits: komputes (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1050. # Session Close: Wed Feb 09 00:00:00 2011

The end :)