/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-02-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Feb 10 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:01] <dgathright> BrianBlakely: If that were true, then Apple wouldn't have pretty much abandoned Mobile Safari apps in favor of native apps.
  4. # [00:02] <franksalim> at least Mobile Safari has WebSocket and SVG
  5. # [00:04] <franksalim> does anyone happen to be going to the Mountain View JavaScript meetup tonight?
  6. # [00:04] * Quits: Evet (~Evet@pdpc/supporter/active/evet) (Quit: Evet)
  7. # [00:04] <nimbupani> antonkovalyov perhaps?
  8. # [00:05] * Joins: dcadenas_ (~dcadenas@r186-48-203-35.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)
  9. # [00:06] <BrianBlakely> dgathright: The term "native app" is demeaning :P
  10. # [00:07] * Quits: dcadenas (~dcadenas@r186-48-225-88.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  11. # [00:07] <paul_irish> Neiluj: i didnt test any of the polyfills but asked questions of most of them. mathias's i trust most.. he said it works with password....
  12. # [00:08] <paul_irish> franksalim: i'm probably going
  13. # [00:08] <paul_irish> i think it'll be ecma harmony stuff .. not so much in es5
  14. # [00:11] <dgathright> BrianBlakely: Ok, how about "proprietary silo app" or "non-standards based app" then. :)
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  17. # [00:13] <antonkovalyov> nimbupani, hm?
  18. # [00:13] <Neiluj> paul_irish: I tested every one of them, mathias's looked the best but there's something wrong http://zeedev.aaz.fr/placeholder/placeholder2.html
  19. # [00:13] <nimbupani> smone was asking about MV JS
  20. # [00:13] <BrianBlakely> dgathright: Nooow we're talkin :)
  21. # [00:13] <Neiluj> paul_irish: don't fill the field and submit the form, you'll see ;)
  22. # [00:14] <franksalim> paul_irish: cool. i will definitely be there
  23. # [00:14] <BrianBlakely> I would like to know more about Harmony
  24. # [00:14] <BrianBlakely> Too bad I do not like in CA
  25. # [00:15] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) (Quit: swatted to death)
  26. # [00:15] <daleharvey> there is a MV javascript tonight?
  27. # [00:15] * Joins: dcadenas (~dcadenas@r186-48-247-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)
  28. # [00:15] <franksalim> http://www.meetup.com/javascript-9/events/16491049/
  29. # [00:15] <daleharvey> thats annoying, I couldnt make the SF ones since I am in MV, but playing poker tonight
  30. # [00:16] <daleharvey> js bbq will be awesome though
  31. # [00:16] * Joins: toinso (~toinso@unaffiliated/toinso)
  32. # [00:16] <Neiluj> paul_irish: webshim is oversized for placeholder only but I'm also interested in the verification thing that's why I think I'll go with it, I fixed (just commited by aFarkas :) the only bug I saw on this placeholder feature
  33. # [00:16] <antonkovalyov> nimbupani, i did not even know about that
  34. # [00:16] <nimbupani> orly
  35. # [00:16] <nimbupani> its closer
  36. # [00:16] <antonkovalyov> but i usually dont go to the valley for meetups because the commute sucks
  37. # [00:16] <nimbupani> and u can have ur date with paul_irish
  38. # [00:16] <nimbupani> o
  39. # [00:16] <franksalim> daleharvey: js bbq?
  40. # [00:17] <antonkovalyov> and even when there is somebody to drive you back, they force you to ride a bike (cc paul_irish) :D
  41. # [00:17] <daleharvey> http://www.jsbbq.org/
  42. # [00:17] <antonkovalyov> i wanted to go to js bbq thought, but i am going to tahoe this weekend :(
  43. # [00:18] <franksalim> well that looks like fun
  44. # [00:18] <nimbupani> and why is that sad
  45. # [00:18] * Quits: dcadenas_ (~dcadenas@r186-48-203-35.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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  47. # [00:19] <antonkovalyov> because i cant ride bikes :)
  48. # [00:19] <antonkovalyov> i need to learn though
  49. # [00:19] <nimbupani> bikes = cycles?
  50. # [00:19] <antonkovalyov> ya
  51. # [00:19] <nimbupani> like BICYCLES
  52. # [00:19] <nimbupani> ???
  53. # [00:19] <nimbupani> U CANT RIDE BICYCLESS?!
  54. # [00:19] <nimbupani> hahahahaha
  55. # [00:20] <antonkovalyov> :'-(
  56. # [00:20] <nimbupani> this is better than me not knowing how to swim
  57. # [00:20] <nimbupani> thanks for the laughs antonkovalyov
  58. # [00:20] <antonkovalyov> no, its not :)
  59. # [00:20] <nimbupani> it is!
  60. # [00:20] <nimbupani> much much better
  61. # [00:20] <tw2113> at least we can all walk
  62. # [00:20] <tw2113> we are equals there
  63. # [00:20] * Quits: dcadenas (~dcadenas@r186-48-247-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  64. # [00:20] <antonkovalyov> i can see how i managed to live 20 years without riding a bike
  65. # [00:20] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  66. # [00:21] <antonkovalyov> but i cant see how can you manage to live your whole life without going to a swimming pool :)
  67. # [00:21] <antonkovalyov> anyway, gonna learn soon; it was fun
  68. # [00:21] <tw2113> i wonder if she's a shower person
  69. # [00:21] <antonkovalyov> tw2113, dont be creepy :)
  70. # [00:21] <nimbupani> well why not antonkovalyov?
  71. # [00:21] <nimbupani> i dont go to swimming pools anyhoo
  72. # [00:22] <tw2113> not tryin to be :D
  73. # [00:22] * Quits: addyosmani (~apple@host86-148-20-248.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: addyosmani)
  74. # [00:22] <nimbupani> oh good antonkovalyov i really hope to learn swimming one day too
  75. # [00:22] <nimbupani> it makes appealing activities like kayaking possible
  76. # [00:22] * Quits: MattDiPasquale (~MattDiPas@rrcs-184-74-229-10.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  77. # [00:23] <antonkovalyov> :)
  78. # [00:24] <paul_irish> msft just emailed me with an update for html5readiness.com awww
  79. # [00:25] <tw2113> dreamhost emailed me a reminder that my hosting term is almost up and i need to renew
  80. # [00:25] <symb> a customer should emailed me that he does like the new paper letter design
  81. # [00:30] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113asw@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Leaving)
  82. # [00:31] <franksalim> does anyone know anything about border-radius not affecting <video> in Chrome on Linux?
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  92. # [00:47] <franksalim> or elsewhere, I guess. I'm seeing the same thing in Chrome on Windows
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  94. # [00:49] <key> i live on an island and amazing enough, i actually meet people who never go in the ocean
  95. # [00:49] <key> and perhaps also not even in freshwater. rivers, pools, etc
  96. # [00:52] <Neiluj> key: 17 years ago, I lived on an island where people never SAW the ocean :-)
  97. # [00:52] <key> dude. NO WAY
  98. # [00:52] <key> are you serious?
  99. # [00:53] <Neiluj> yeah seriously :)
  100. # [00:53] <key> how could that even be possible?
  101. # [00:53] <Neiluj> slavery heritage and relief ;)
  102. # [00:53] <dgathright> I live a mile from the beach and I see the ocean -maybe- once a month. Yeah, lame.
  103. # [00:55] <Neiluj> their grand-grand-grand-grand-pas and mamas ran away to the mountain and told their children to not go outside
  104. # [00:55] <Neiluj> well I live not far from Eiffel Tower and I don't see it everyday :P
  105. # [00:59] <key> Neiluj: amazing. so sad. which island was this?
  106. # [01:00] <Neiluj> key: http://maps.google.fr/?ie=UTF8&ll=-21.117811,55.535889&spn=0.822436,1.387024&t=k&z=10
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  108. # [01:02] <key> RFC -> http://www.pastie.org/private/z4e91xoa8dx8twu4etl2ua
  109. # [01:02] <Neiluj> key: there are probably people in here which still didn't see the ocean today, but believe me : they live in paradise, a green paradise
  110. # [01:03] <Neiluj> and they can swim, they have rivers ;)
  111. # [01:04] <key> wow, you lived there?
  112. # [01:04] <key> what's the name of the island?
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  117. # [01:13] <paul_irish> Peter`: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=72501
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  126. # [01:33] <benv> any jquery mobile devs here?
  127. # [01:33] <benv> im trying to remember why it uses data-* attributes instead of classes to mark up elements
  128. # [01:33] <benv> i heard a good explanation at jquery conf; trying to remember what it was :)
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  135. # [01:53] <paul_irish> http://paulirish.com/i/39c1.png
  136. # [01:56] <digitalfiz> nice
  137. # [01:57] <key> eh, not impressed
  138. # [01:57] <key> the one where paul has a couple male strippers superimposed over him with a big line of blow is better
  139. # [02:00] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Is IE's giant chunk of the circle supposed to represent its market share? :)
  140. # [02:00] <key> no, the hole through which it sux
  141. # [02:00] <key> (substantial)
  142. # [02:01] * Joins: plh_ (~plh@209-6-123-224.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com)
  143. # [02:02] <BrianBlakely> Can't wait for RC day tomorrow
  144. # [02:02] <paul_irish> RC DAYYYYY
  145. # [02:02] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: I know you have deets on the final spec support
  146. # [02:02] <BrianBlakely> Spill dose beans?
  147. # [02:03] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: did you see that msft is asking me to update html5readiness for ie9?
  148. # [02:03] <BrianBlakely> yah
  149. # [02:03] <paul_irish> i'm gonna try to get some info out of him
  150. # [02:03] <paul_irish> muahaha
  151. # [02:03] <tw2113> *shrugs at random things*
  152. # [02:04] <paul_irish> thanks tw.
  153. # [02:04] <tw2113> for once again contributing nothing?
  154. # [02:04] <tw2113> :D
  155. # [02:05] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Did they send you any *information*, or did they just say "When we release our browser, can ya update?"
  156. # [02:07] <paul_irish> no information
  157. # [02:08] * Joins: JSG (~GC@unaffiliated/geekchick/x-389545837)
  158. # [02:09] <BrianBlakely> bah
  159. # [02:09] <BrianBlakely> Hey all: do any browser market share data providers have an API?
  160. # [02:11] <BrianBlakely> … hmm, I have a good feeling that the "2011" view on html5readiness will have a couple full semicircles!
  161. # [02:14] <BrianBlakely> Seems like Safari 6 might be first
  162. # [02:14] <BrianBlakely> Wait a minute, paul_irish, I don't think IE9 has flexbox
  163. # [02:14] <paul_irish> they removed it after they had it
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  165. # [02:16] <JSG> Hey paul_irish
  166. # [02:16] <BrianBlakely> Ah
  167. # [02:16] <paul_irish> hey JSG
  168. # [02:16] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: it was in pp5 and gone in pp6
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  171. # [02:17] <niftylettuce> \o/
  172. # [02:18] <BrianBlakely> Hrmm, here's hoping it makes a valiant, vendor-prefixed return
  173. # [02:20] <JSG> paul_irish, question...what's with the <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1"> in HTML5 boiler plate?
  174. # [02:21] <JSG> Why are we trying to duct tape chrome into IE?
  175. # [02:21] <paul_irish> why use chromeframe if its installed instead of the ie6-8 browser?
  176. # [02:22] <paul_irish> what browser would you rather your users view your site with, Chrome or IE8?
  177. # [02:22] <JSG> I mean I have access to the server logs and all sorts of user tracking data at my company and I can definitely say that not even 40% of browsers hitting all the global sites support HTML5.
  178. # [02:22] <JSG> Much less GoogleChromeFrame.
  179. # [02:23] <JSG> It's just a weird approach in my opinion. Duct tape something over top trident
  180. # [02:23] <paul_irish> i can see that
  181. # [02:23] <paul_irish> here's the problem we're going to get ourselves into:
  182. # [02:24] <paul_irish> if you think our relationship with IE6 is bad now.. look forward to how we feel about IE8 in 15 years.
  183. # [02:24] <paul_irish> IE9 doesnt run on XP. as we've seen it's been a MASSIVE effort to try to upgrade people off of IE6.. and its still not working.. and getting a new browser is free
  184. # [02:25] <paul_irish> a new OS costs at least $79. so there will be people using IE8 in XP for at least the next 15 years.
  185. # [02:25] <paul_irish> a lot of people.
  186. # [02:25] <JSG> OK, but they'll have to install this GCF thing which I assume is some massive BHO?
  187. # [02:26] <paul_irish> it is.
  188. # [02:26] <paul_irish> ChromeFrame is one weapon we have in the arsenal to deal with these users.
  189. # [02:26] <paul_irish> and .. probably the best one.
  190. # [02:26] <paul_irish> turns out users are much more willing to install a "plugin" rather than "a new browser"
  191. # [02:27] <franksalim> (a new plugin doesn't require any change in user behavior)
  192. # [02:27] <key> fuck those ppl
  193. # [02:27] <JSG> I think when IE9 launches, Microsoft should probably fall on the sword and make it a forced roll-out like Windows Genuien Advantage.
  194. # [02:27] <JSG> And from then on silent update like Chrome.
  195. # [02:28] <paul_irish> yeah they should.
  196. # [02:28] <paul_irish> but it still won't touch everyone on windows XP
  197. # [02:28] <franksalim> in reality, IE9 will not even run on XP, which is still a supported operating system
  198. # [02:29] <JSG> So is chromeframe a full webkit?
  199. # [02:29] <paul_irish> it's Chrome. it's everything that chrome is.
  200. # [02:29] <JSG> does it only turn on for that meta tag?
  201. # [02:29] <paul_irish> yes, it is only enabled via the opt-in meta tag or the HTTP header
  202. # [02:30] * Quits: cryptics_ (~cryptics_@unaffiliated/crypticsquared) (Quit: Leaving...)
  203. # [02:30] <paul_irish> so shitty intranet sites that still need IE will continue to use trident. everyone else can say "hey i wanna use the good engine if you got it" and ur good
  204. # [02:31] <paul_irish> the meta doesnt prompt to install or anything. it's purely just using GCF if its already installed.
  205. # [02:31] <JSG> to me it still sounds hacky
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  207. # [02:31] <paul_irish> its a MASSIVE hack
  208. # [02:32] <paul_irish> it's a tremendous hack that google was able to make chrome work as an IE BHO
  209. # [02:32] <paul_irish> but it's tested up the wazz.. and super performant
  210. # [02:33] <paul_irish> the funny thing is running chromeframe as an IE BHO and you're farrr more safer from a security perspective than had you been using IE natively.
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  212. # [02:33] <franksalim> paul_irish: i was with you until there
  213. # [02:33] <franksalim> that can't be true!
  214. # [02:33] <JSG> We're targeting XHTML Strict at the moment. My group is trying to get a full HTML5 app started internally to launch if the browser is detected as HTML5.
  215. # [02:34] <franksalim> an attacker gets to choose the rendering engine, and then you have twice as much surface area for attack
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  217. # [02:34] <paul_irish> you can't say an attacker gets to choose the rendering engine.. XSS hacks never do (unless they're constructing iframes)
  218. # [02:34] <JSG> franksalim, agreed
  219. # [02:34] <paul_irish> i'll revise a bit:
  220. # [02:35] <franksalim> in general i love chrome frame
  221. # [02:35] <franksalim> don't get me wrong
  222. # [02:35] <franksalim> an attacker may, at least some of the time, choose the engine to attack
  223. # [02:35] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-ljdhsntkbjkfxpfc) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  224. # [02:35] <paul_irish> a page viewed in GCF has a lower chance of exploiting a vulnerability than viewed in native IE
  225. # [02:35] * dgathright_ is now known as dgathright
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  227. # [02:36] <paul_irish> though.. i dont think google will market along those lines.. :) so it's moot and i'll concede it if you think i'm wrong :)
  228. # [02:36] <JSG> Meh, while we're on Chrome, I wish it was more Firebug-like in breakpoint handling and watching.
  229. # [02:36] <paul_irish> JSG: yeah? how so
  230. # [02:36] <niftylettuce> flash will be around foreverrr???
  231. # [02:36] <JSG> It's hard to track XMLHTTPRequests in transit
  232. # [02:36] <paul_irish> JSG: i'm working with the devtools team to make things better so i appreciate the detail
  233. # [02:36] <JSG> and the beakpoints are unpredictable at times
  234. # [02:36] <paul_irish> rightclick in console and you can turn on XHR debugging
  235. # [02:37] <paul_irish> er.. logging
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  237. # [02:37] <paul_irish> JSG: http://paulirish.com/i/1960.png
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  239. # [02:38] <paul_irish> you use those?
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  242. # [02:39] <JSG> Never seen the "Any XHR" option before.
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  244. # [02:40] <paul_irish> JSG: grab chrome dev channel and try it out.. holler at me if you think something could be improved about it
  245. # [02:40] <paul_irish> and i will make it so! :)
  246. # [02:40] <JSG> I'm always on latest beta or canary.
  247. # [02:40] <paul_irish> i gotta roll for now
  248. # [02:40] <paul_irish> hawt
  249. # [02:40] <paul_irish> canary is sexytime
  250. # [02:41] <niftylettuce> yes what he said ^
  251. # [02:43] <JSG> got to finish dinner anyway.
  252. # [02:43] <JSG> interesting chat.
  253. # [02:43] <JSG> later for now.
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  257. # [02:46] <key> if i have a sub menu UL nested within a main menu UL, what's the best way to style the sub menu distinctly from the main menu? nav > ul and nav > ul > li > ul? or id the UL's and do #main-menu + #main-menu > li and #section-menu + #section-menu > li?
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  264. # [03:19] <BrianBlakely> Google Chrome Frame is a bucket of wishful thinking
  265. # [03:20] <BrianBlakely> Though I do opt-in on all my projects
  266. # [03:20] <BrianBlakely> I would never prompt the download
  267. # [03:20] <BrianBlakely> Clients would HATE that
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  270. # [03:22] <digitalfiz> to bad not updating isnt a crime :/
  271. # [03:22] <digitalfiz> would be cool for people to get fined everytime they load a webpage with an officially "outdated" browser :P
  272. # [03:22] <key> uh, says hitler
  273. # [03:23] <digitalfiz> hitler would have every house up to date
  274. # [03:23] <franksalim> there could be a tipping point in the near future where applications that require a feature like webgl could reasonably prompt for gfc download
  275. # [03:24] <franksalim> applications that could not possibly degrade to 2d
  276. # [03:25] <BrianBlakely> I don't think it works in IE9 beta
  277. # [03:26] <franksalim> you don't think what works in ie9 beta?
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  279. # [03:32] <franksalim> i'm off to the JS meetup. later
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  281. # [03:33] <key> show off
  282. # [03:35] <BrianBlakely> Oh, it does work
  283. # [03:35] <BrianBlakely> (Google Chrome Frame)
  284. # [03:35] <BrianBlakely> It works very well!
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  286. # [03:36] <key> btw, why is the firefox logo on mac containing a globe of what looks to be a different planet because it sure the fuck isn't earth?
  287. # [03:36] <tw2113> ask firefox
  288. # [03:39] <dgathright> cause it's an alien fox
  289. # [03:40] <dgathright> from a planet where web standards rule
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  291. # [03:43] <digitalfiz> lolz
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  295. # [03:46] <key> what's a CSS comment? 1 line
  296. # [03:46] <tw2113> eh?
  297. # [03:46] <key> how can i comment out css rules?
  298. # [03:47] <tw2113> /* */
  299. # [03:47] <key> ugh
  300. # [03:47] <key> no comment for a single line?
  301. # [03:47] <key> like # in ruby
  302. # [03:47] <tw2113> doesn't look like it
  303. # [03:47] <key> that's so weak
  304. # [03:47] <digitalfiz> ruby lolz
  305. # [03:47] <key> ruby owns you
  306. # [03:47] <tw2113> i do admit i like php's //
  307. # [03:47] <digitalfiz> ruby is for chumps :P
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  310. # [03:48] <tw2113> but when you have to close it, deal with it
  311. # [03:48] <BrianBlakely> key: CSS has //
  312. # [03:48] <BrianBlakely> Some versions of IE don't support it
  313. # [03:48] <BrianBlakely> Of course...
  314. # [03:48] <tw2113> google sucks for proving that, but it's worth trying
  315. # [03:48] <digitalfiz> its just 2 more characters anyways
  316. # [03:48] <BrianBlakely> But if you're developing in Chrome/FF, then you can use the slashes
  317. # [03:48] <BrianBlakely> digitalfiz: I agree with key, it's a PITA
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  319. # [03:49] <BrianBlakely> You have to push the cursor all around
  320. # [03:49] <digitalfiz> its more then likely 1 set of combo keys in most editors anyways :P
  321. # [03:49] <BrianBlakely> True
  322. # [03:49] <BrianBlakely> Anyway, it's good to know that you can, indeed, use //
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  324. # [03:52] <tw2113> i really need to play with shadows more
  325. # [03:53] <key> smart ass, it isn't the fact it's a couple more keys, it's the fact it's in another location
  326. # [03:54] <key> so a comment rather than being 1 char 1 position, is 2 chars 2 positions. beginning and end of content
  327. # [03:54] <key> that's a LOT of hassle when a 1 line comment would have been smart
  328. # [03:54] <key> good thing // mostly works
  329. # [03:54] <key> (fuck ie)
  330. # [03:54] <key> the stinking dog for over a decade now
  331. # [03:54] <tw2113> i hope you're commenting to leave notes and not to hide the actual selectors/declarations
  332. # [03:55] <key> im commenting out rules, for testing
  333. # [03:55] <key> perm comments i'm using /* */
  334. # [03:56] <tw2113> i'm loving that you can get the glass effect with css alone
  335. # [03:57] <key> and it loves you back
  336. # [03:58] <tw2113> http://michaelbox.net/nonwordpress/work/shadows.html
  337. # [03:58] <tw2113> best viewed in FF4 at the moment
  338. # [04:03] <key> ugh, just realized i didn't want to style my fixed width web page by styling the html and body tags, because i want the footer details to be outside of the body coloring
  339. # [04:04] <key> looks like i'm back to a container div
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  346. # [04:27] <franksalim> hello
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  356. # [04:58] <key> why is the text within my <article> left aligned with the edge of it, rather than left aligned with the left padding of 20px i have?
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  360. # [05:12] <key> i set a " border-left-width: 4px;" on this UL, but the computed value in firebug says border-left-width is 0 px
  361. # [05:12] <key> any ideas?
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  372. # [06:04] <xonecas_mobile> :wq
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  379. # [06:29] <AbrahamLincoln> I like HTML5.
  380. # [06:31] * Joins: pratz (~quassel@115.252.128.220)
  381. # [06:32] <JonathanNeal> We find ourselves in the peaceful possession, of the fairest portion of the web, as regards extent of bandwidth, fertility of invention, and salubrity of lolcat.
  382. # [06:33] <niftylettuce> '.'
  383. # [06:34] <key> nifty, rofl
  384. # [06:34] <key> great use of a full stop
  385. # [06:35] <JonathanNeal> We find ourselves under the leadership of a system of working groups, conducing more essentially to the development of properly implemented semantics and standards, than any of which the history of former times tells us.
  386. # [06:39] <JonathanNeal> We, when mounting the stage of #html5 or #whatwg, found ourselves the communal inheritors of these fundamental blessings. We toiled not in the acquirement or establishment of them -- they are a legacy bequeathed us, by a once shy, geeky, and obsessed, but now blithed and respected list of contributors.
  387. # [06:39] <JonathanNeal> Opps
  388. # [06:40] <JonathanNeal> Abe, you always say it better.
  389. # [06:40] <AbrahamLincoln> LOLz
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  395. # [07:03] <key> sounds like dude likes to stroke himself
  396. # [07:04] <key> i observe the many more words than people like Einstein
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  403. # [07:09] <Neiluj> yo
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  405. # [07:10] <xonecas> yo
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  434. # [09:09] <niftylettuce> what would be the best way to go about making a web-based FTP (file manager/uploader) that has access control on both the admin and user side? simply using htpasswd/htaccess permissions and a GUI that writes/reads to the htaccess?
  435. # [09:09] <niftylettuce> or using mysql + a scripting language?
  436. # [09:09] <niftylettuce> I wanted to use this http://aquantum-demo.appspot.com/file-upload
  437. # [09:10] <niftylettuce> list out a directory tree in the center of the gui, show a file browser on the left side of the gui ...
  438. # [09:13] <xonecas> niftylettuce: look into node.js, you can create a server that monitors a folder, and when requested shows the index, you can use node to retrieve and upload files from the server
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  440. # [09:16] <niftylettuce> xonecas: so basically I could create a server "node" for each "user" and the "user" could only see their "node" (if written properly) ?
  441. # [09:17] <xonecas> niftylettuce: something like that
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  444. # [09:18] <niftylettuce> xonecas: difficulty 1-10?
  445. # [09:18] <xonecas> you can get away with a single node server, if you use some sort of user auth
  446. # [09:18] <xonecas> I would say a 3, if you don't get fancy
  447. # [09:18] <xonecas> nodejs.org, I sugest using 0.2.6 since is stable
  448. # [09:18] <niftylettuce> yea been browsing it
  449. # [09:19] <niftylettuce> wow it supports crypto
  450. # [09:19] <xonecas> github.com/xonecas/rotator might help you get started dealing with the fs module
  451. # [09:19] <xonecas> if you compile it in a system with lib-openssh
  452. # [09:20] <niftylettuce> ofcourse, i use linode :)
  453. # [09:20] <niftylettuce> nice wallpaper rotator
  454. # [09:21] <niftylettuce> this will be a challenge for me
  455. # [09:22] <niftylettuce> xonecas: I appreciate the help
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  457. # [09:23] <xonecas> np, glad to help, I'm off for tonight, but if you want some more help msg me in github and I'll reply in the morning
  458. # [09:26] <niftylettuce> kk
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  534. # [13:25] <AndroUser2> Is there ANY way that it would be possible to implement a client for a custom audio server/protocol using the HTML5 technologies?
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  537. # [13:30] <jetienne> AndroUser2: the obvious answer is <audio> tag. what do you mean by custom ?
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  539. # [13:39] <AndroUser2> jetienne, are you familiar with pulseaudio? its like that. I was told that there's an audio API in Dev builds of FF and chrome that key do what I need.
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  541. # [13:40] <jetienne> AndroUser2: pulseaudio is an audio API on linux. this is not the same as html5
  542. # [13:40] <jetienne> AndroUser2: not sure how to say it. just 2 differents level. if you do webpage, you dont care about pulseaudio
  543. # [13:46] <AndroUser2> jetienne, unless you want to implement a client that can connect to a pulseaudio server...
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  545. # [13:47] <jetienne> ok i think there is a misunderstanding
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  547. # [13:56] <AndroUser2> I want ( I know it'll be difficult, and deelffinately unconventional) to implement a web based (non flash) "client" that can connect to and play audio from a server such as pulseaudio. I know what It is, and I know what I'm asking, it seems wrong, but I'm trying to do it anyway.
  548. # [13:57] <jetienne> AndroUser2: ok what about the following
  549. # [13:57] <jetienne> 1. you get a http server which got an API similar to pulseaudio. (you code that in python/ruby/c whatever)
  550. # [13:58] <jetienne> 2. you get a webpage to connect this server using websocket
  551. # [13:58] <jetienne> 3. the webpage thus control the computer pulseaudio
  552. # [13:59] <AndroUser2> yes, exactly, then I just need a way to play the audio
  553. # [13:59] <jetienne> the server will play the audio. the server is running on the pulseaudio box
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  555. # [14:00] <AndroUser2> getting it, and interpreting it in js. is doable. then I just need to push that raw signal to the speakers
  556. # [14:00] <jetienne> the webpage would send messages like {action:"play", soundUrl :"http://example.com/foo.ogg"}
  557. # [14:00] <hachque> on the w3c compliance checker for HTML5, the one warning is just that it's an experimental checker right?
  558. # [14:01] <jetienne> AndroUser2: if the webpage is generating the audio, you need to convert it in base64 and to send it thru the websocket
  559. # [14:02] <AndroUser2> jetienne, no no no, I'm talking about configuring it to actually serve the audio, so that other pulseaudio client, on other computers can connect to it and play its audio on their machines.
  560. # [14:02] <jetienne> AndroUser2: my remark was only on how to transfert the sound to the server
  561. # [14:03] <jetienne> it all depends on your need. Is the sound generated by the webpage ?
  562. # [14:03] <jetienne> or are they static files stored on a disk somewhere ?
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  564. # [14:05] <AndroUser2> jetienne, neither, it is actively generated by the server. its for a kind of screen sharing, with audio
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  567. # [14:11] <hachque> woo html5 compliant
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  575. # [14:33] <hachque> does anyone have any links relating to the "Server-Sent Events" or Web Sockets?
  576. # [14:33] <hachque> wait i think i found the W3C document relating to it
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  592. # [15:08] <jetienne> hachque: ? the web is full of it
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  643. # [17:16] <BrianBlakely> I thought IE9 dropped support for gradients
  644. # [17:16] <BrianBlakely> That's odd
  645. # [17:17] <BrianBlakely> I mean, filters
  646. # [17:17] <BrianBlakely> Which is odd, because I see filters in IE9 RC
  647. # [17:19] <tw2113> is that a good thing?
  648. # [17:19] <BrianBlakely> :shrug:
  649. # [17:20] * BrianBlakely shrug
  650. # [17:20] <tw2113> we should be happy that IE9 has these features
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  652. # [17:22] <tw2113> ut oh, thatryan found me
  653. # [17:22] <thatryan> after years of searching
  654. # [17:22] <thatryan> i should have used google ;)
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  656. # [17:23] <tw2113> yeah this ID of mine has left its droppings on the web for a decade or more
  657. # [17:24] <BrianBlakely> Crap, Firebug Lite crashes IE9
  658. # [17:26] <tw2113> the list begins
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  661. # [17:28] <JonathanNeal> Goodmorning (which inevitably elicits responses from other timezones)
  662. # [17:28] <BrianBlakely> JonathanNeal: sup
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  664. # [17:29] <BrianBlakely> IE9, you were supposed to bring balance to the web, not leave it in darkness!!
  665. # [17:29] * Joins: sl1k (~Slick@S010600215a08cecc.cg.shawcable.net)
  666. # [17:31] <JonathanNeal> It has not?
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  669. # [17:34] <BrianBlakely> JonathanNeal: Filters are still supported, but are buggy in conjunction with new features
  670. # [17:34] <JonathanNeal> old school filters?
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  672. # [17:34] <BrianBlakely> Ol' school
  673. # [17:35] <BrianBlakely> But I'm not seeing any new-new features from the beta
  674. # [17:35] <JonathanNeal> wait no css3 magical sparklies?
  675. # [17:36] <BrianBlakely> There's probably something, but it isn't self-evident yet
  676. # [17:36] <BrianBlakely> Less than half the score of Chr9 on http://html5test.com/
  677. # [17:37] <BrianBlakely> No new <input> types
  678. # [17:37] <BrianBlakely> I'm getting a false on Drag-n-Drop
  679. # [17:37] <BrianBlakely> But that might be a false negative
  680. # [17:38] <BrianBlakely> No app cache
  681. # [17:38] <BrianBlakely> No web workers
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  683. # [17:39] <BrianBlakely> And the obvious stuff, no DAP spec, no WebGL
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  685. # [17:39] <BrianBlakely> No Web Sockets
  686. # [17:39] <BrianBlakely> No File API
  687. # [17:40] <BrianBlakely> At least it supports the box model -_-
  688. # [17:40] * Quits: ben225 (~ben2225@67.136.120.186) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  689. # [17:41] <BrianBlakely> None of my sites have any weird layout glitches, just graphical crazyness
  690. # [17:42] * Quits: jdalton (~johndavid@cpe-75-187-124-204.insight.res.rr.com)
  691. # [17:42] <BrianBlakely> No border-image
  692. # [17:43] <BrianBlakely> That's a big deal
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  695. # [17:47] <JonathanNeal> Yea, I can understand that.
  696. # [17:48] <BrianBlakely> Did IE9 Beta support SVG masks?
  697. # [17:48] <BrianBlakely> Because I believe RC does
  698. # [17:48] <BrianBlakely> Which is cool
  699. # [17:49] <BrianBlakely> It might just be on SVG content though
  700. # [17:50] * Quits: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@12.230.92.3) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  701. # [17:56] <paul_irish> OMG IE9 RC DAY
  702. # [17:56] <paul_irish> is it out?
  703. # [17:57] <paul_irish> this is like christmas!!!
  704. # [17:59] * Parts: deane_ (~dean@119.224.91.235)
  705. # [18:00] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: I guess
  706. # [18:00] <BrianBlakely> If you don't get what you want at all
  707. # [18:00] <thatryan> lol
  708. # [18:00] <thatryan> socks
  709. # [18:00] <BrianBlakely> heh
  710. # [18:01] <BrianBlakely> Microsoft gave us a bunny suit
  711. # [18:01] <BrianBlakely> And now we have to wear it
  712. # [18:01] <nimbupani> awww it aint that bad
  713. # [18:01] <BrianBlakely> It ain't much better than the Beta… is it better at all?
  714. # [18:02] <BrianBlakely> And why does it still support filters
  715. # [18:02] <BrianBlakely> And why DOESN'T it support border-image
  716. # [18:02] <BrianBlakely> grobrgorbrobr
  717. # [18:02] <BrianBlakely> i mad
  718. # [18:02] <paul_irish> where is the list of whats newwww
  719. # [18:02] <nimbupani> its the same shit
  720. # [18:02] <paul_irish> no
  721. # [18:02] <paul_irish> NO
  722. # [18:02] <nimbupani> .seen beverloo
  723. # [18:02] <paul_irish> D:
  724. # [18:02] <BrianBlakely> There is no list I know of, I'm just poking around
  725. # [18:03] <nimbupani> omg where is socialhapy
  726. # [18:03] <nimbupani> ?g twitter beverloo
  727. # [18:03] <plh_> at least, it supports gelocation now
  728. # [18:03] <bot-t> nimbupani, Peter Beverloo (beverloo) on Twitter - http://twitter.com/beverloo
  729. # [18:03] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/eQouTr @beverloo: Internet Explorer 9 RC1: Geolocation, pinned sites and compatibility mode updates. http://goo.gl/gNKw0 #IE9
  730. # [18:03] <plh_> geolocation
  731. # [18:03] <nimbupani> yeah
  732. # [18:03] <nimbupani> thats what is new
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  734. # [18:04] <BrianBlakely> Ah, I did see that
  735. # [18:04] <BrianBlakely> Not the most-used feature in the world
  736. # [18:04] <paul_irish> plh_: truee
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  738. # [18:04] <paul_irish> seemingly left out of http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/info/ReleaseNotes/Default.html for some odd reason
  739. # [18:05] <BrianBlakely> Useful for fewer people than about 30 CSS properties that were not included
  740. # [18:06] <paul_irish> man this news is a day ruiner. :(
  741. # [18:09] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Is there a best practice for tossing visitors a Chrome Frame? Besides providing a link to the download page (which isn't very IE-user-friendly)
  742. # [18:09] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: yes we're putting out something for that soon
  743. # [18:09] <paul_irish> not out yet
  744. # [18:09] <BrianBlakely> Oh, perfect! I now feel like I will be doing this very soon...
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  750. # [18:13] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: do you want a github corner banner style thing or an ie6update.com style thing.. or a modal dialog like cfinstall.js ?
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  753. # [18:15] <BrianBlakely> I'm thinking about what clients would hate or notice *least*
  754. # [18:15] <BrianBlakely> Which is probably ie6update style
  755. # [18:16] <BrianBlakely> Modal would be on the other end, a big hale naw
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  762. # [18:25] <mokush> any ideea why a cros request works in chrome but not minefield?
  763. # [18:25] <paul_irish> http://twitpic.com/3ycgk7
  764. # [18:25] <paul_irish> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2011/02/10/acting-on-feedback-ie9-release-candidate-available-for-download.aspx
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  767. # [18:31] <mokush> paul_irish: is that tables from the msdn entry for real?
  768. # [18:32] <paul_irish> the colored one?
  769. # [18:32] <mokush> yeah
  770. # [18:32] <paul_irish> the guy who managed the html5 test suite works for msft. there have been tests submitted from other vendors but they havent been accepted yet.
  771. # [18:33] <paul_irish> s/managed/manages
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  773. # [18:33] <mokush> paul_irish: there's always a catch with these guys
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  775. # [18:37] <paul_irish> mokush: see also this BIG RED BOX :) http://test.w3.org/html/tests/reporting/report.htm
  776. # [18:39] <BrianBlakely> Why is Chrome so slow on real world sites!?! arg >_<
  777. # [18:39] <paul_irish> here's the hg repo for all the tests https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html/file/56a2982158e9
  778. # [18:39] <BrianBlakely> I swear to god, every time I visit a site in the real world, Chrome implodes
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  781. # [18:42] <paul_irish> globalCompositeOperation is in canvas!
  782. # [18:43] <paul_irish> \o/
  783. # [18:46] <paul_irish> ff's FOUT will be fixed in ffb12
  784. # [18:47] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@rrcs-173-198-32-146.west.biz.rr.com)
  785. # [18:49] <symb> it is?
  786. # [18:50] <symb> i currently use your js fix on my site
  787. # [18:58] <paul_irish> http://sandbox.knarly.com/js/dropfiles/
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  789. # [19:01] <paul_irish> symb: i'll find an update to that code.. dunno what it is yet
  790. # [19:01] <symb> chrome 7 does still flicker for a second with the default font when loading @font-face
  791. # [19:02] <symb> but ff is fine
  792. # [19:02] <symb> with your fix
  793. # [19:04] <jetienne> ouch put that in a webgl browser... wegl is there for real! http://oos.moxiecode.com/js_webgl/terrain/index.html
  794. # [19:04] <paul_irish> miketaylr, nimbupani: this shit is hot http://my.opera.com/dragonfly/blog/minor-updates-to-opera-dragonfly-experimental
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  796. # [19:05] <miketaylr> yeahh!
  797. # [19:05] <symb> nice :)
  798. # [19:05] <nimbupani> wooo
  799. # [19:05] <paul_irish> jetienne: hot
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  801. # [19:06] <symb> now, as a content producer type of guy, there must be gui/editor soon for creating things like this heh
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  804. # [19:11] <BrianBlakely> jetienne: Nice framerate!
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  806. # [19:12] <jetienne> all that is not mine btw :)
  807. # [19:13] <symb> jetienne: well, you found it ;)
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  811. # [19:14] <jakemcgraw> anyone know escaping requirements for element attributes in HTML5?
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  814. # [19:15] <jakemcgraw> " = &quot;… is that it?
  815. # [19:15] <jakemcgraw> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2350191/escaping-requirements-for-the-input-tags-value-attribute
  816. # [19:15] <jakemcgraw> so, for example, I could have something like
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  818. # [19:17] <jakemcgraw> <div data-message="<foo attr=&quot;bar&quot;>spam</foo>"></div>
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  822. # [19:18] <Brodingo> i dont know who i am anymore
  823. # [19:19] <Brodingo> <b> or <strong>
  824. # [19:19] <nimbupani> or none
  825. # [19:19] <Brodingo> span?
  826. # [19:20] <symb> <b> is bad
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  833. # [19:33] <symb> mhh.. overflow:hidden; + text-shadow = no win
  834. # [19:35] <JonathanNeal> I'm gonna fix the internet!
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  846. # [19:46] <BrianBlakely> symb: <b> is great (now)
  847. # [19:46] <BrianBlakely> It's essentially <span>++
  848. # [19:46] <BrianBlakely> Oops
  849. # [19:46] <BrianBlakely> ++<span>
  850. # [19:46] <BrianBlakely> (for perf)
  851. # [19:48] <BrianBlakely> Web standards should decide on bar graph standards
  852. # [19:48] <BrianBlakely> Higher should ALWAYS BE BETTER
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  854. # [19:52] <BrianBlakely> Oh, I'm responding to this: http://www.insidefacebook.com/2011/02/09/facebook-html5-platform/
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  878. # [20:40] <tw2113> one would think a browser like chrome would have decent support for attribute selectors, but it is failing for me
  879. # [20:41] <tw2113> especially for one like body+ul>li
  880. # [20:42] * paul_irish is looking for tha attribute selectors in the above statement
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  882. # [20:42] <tw2113> the + and the >
  883. # [20:43] <acies> + is sibling
  884. # [20:43] <nimbupani> HAHAHAHAH
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  886. # [20:43] <niftylettuce> xonecas: i'll get started on this once client agrees to proposal I sent
  887. # [20:43] <nimbupani> ?g css vocabulary nimbupani designs
  888. # [20:43] <bot-t> nimbupani, CSS Vocabulary | Nimbupani Designs - http://nimbupani.com/css-vocabulary.html
  889. # [20:43] <nimbupani> read that tw2113 ^
  890. # [20:44] <tw2113> ok css selector
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  892. # [20:44] <xonecas> niftylettuce: awesome :-)
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  894. # [20:45] <niftylettuce> xonecas: there is clause in the license that lets me turn it into an open source project
  895. # [20:45] <niftylettuce> xonecas: and I have a decent budget to work with, so you could feel literally invested in the project
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  898. # [20:48] <xonecas> niftylettuce: I would love to help when I can, but I work, got to school, and maintain stuff like xonecas.com:1234 and xonecas.com:8888 as a hobby, so I might not be able all the time.
  899. # [20:49] <niftylettuce> xonecas: oh its okay, i mean just for occassional consulting :) I am in a uni as well, I feel your pain
  900. # [20:50] <xonecas> :-) awesome, I'll help out as much as I can!
  901. # [20:50] <tw2113> i think i was using the selectors wrong, ignore me like usual again :D
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  905. # [20:53] <xonecas> nimbupani: how do you automate having a webiste on different languages? I want to have a Portuguese version of my site, but aside using json structures for the text (like android apps do with xml) I'm clueless..
  906. # [20:53] <nimbupani> o xonecas we use this thing on boilerplate that mikewest set up
  907. # [20:53] <nimbupani> translation blocks
  908. # [20:53] <nimbupani> and .po files
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  910. # [20:56] <xonecas> hum, not much on google how to use something like that..
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  912. # [20:56] <xonecas> i could use perl and some regex magic...
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  918. # [21:13] <Neiluj> SlexAxton: +1
  919. # [21:14] <nimbupani> Slexy is the bestest
  920. # [21:14] <Neiluj> ;)
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  925. # [21:28] <SlexAxton> :D
  926. # [21:31] <BrianBlakely> Facebook plugged my work in their documentation
  927. # [21:31] <BrianBlakely> "http://www.facebook.com/pagesare a heavily used feature of Facebook. Major brands, celebrities, etc. use Facebook Pages as their "social home" on the web. One of the most interesting features of Apps on Facebook.com is the ability for your app to be used within the context of a Facebook Page. You can find a great example of this kind of integration on the http://www.facebook.com/coca-cola?v=app_161193133389Page."
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  929. # [21:31] <BrianBlakely> I didn't have anyone to beam to, so, thanks for playing
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  934. # [21:36] <miketaylr> :)
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  937. # [21:38] <tw2113> it's miketaylr
  938. # [21:38] <miketaylr> >_>
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  943. # [21:43] <nimbupani> omg http://blog.typekit.com/2011/02/10/type-study-an-all-css-button/
  944. # [21:43] <nimbupani> its so simurai like :(
  945. # [21:43] <BrianBlakely> I like this
  946. # [21:44] <nimbupani> i meann
  947. # [21:44] <nimbupani> ?g simurai css3 buttons bonbon
  948. # [21:44] <bot-t> nimbupani, BonBon Buttons - Sweet CSS3 buttons - lab.simurai - http://lab.simurai.com/css/buttons/
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  951. # [21:50] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: awesome that FB plugged yr page
  952. # [21:51] <paul_irish> bot-t: tell xonecas most people use the standard gettext i18n methods..
  953. # [21:51] <bot-t> paul_irish, Okay.
  954. # [21:58] <JonathanNeal> that's a sweet button nimbupani
  955. # [21:58] <nimbupani> yah
  956. # [21:58] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Thanks, the iframe announcement means that more pages will be able to do cool stuff for brands on FB
  957. # [21:58] <BrianBlakely> Pretty much anything you can do on the web proper
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  961. # [22:03] <paul_irish> propa
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  965. # [22:18] <MetalSlug636> hi all :)
  966. # [22:18] <MetalSlug636> simple question: does HTML 5 have any IDE at all at the moment? I mean something more visual
  967. # [22:18] <MetalSlug636> same as Silverlight as Expression Blender...
  968. # [22:19] <nimbupani> notepad
  969. # [22:19] <MetalSlug636> uuWahahaha
  970. # [22:19] <MetalSlug636> awesome
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  976. # [22:33] <Neiluj_> MetalSlug636: not exactly what you asked but there are some interesting things coming up, still waiting for it...
  977. # [22:33] <Neiluj_> http://280atlas.com/
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The end :)