/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-02-11 / end

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# Session Start: Fri Feb 11 00:00:01 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:14] <Darrow> When doing animations, is there anything better than clearing the entire canvas and redrawing everything over again?
# [00:14] <Darrow> It seems horribly inefficient...
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# [00:15] <franksalim> 1) you can clear part of the canvas and redraw only what has changed, 2) you can use multiple elements
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# [00:16] <Darrow> How do I use multiple elements? I'm coming from flash, sorry if I'm kinda unknowledgeable here.
# [00:16] <Darrow> Is there any documentation for that?
# [00:16] <andrewjbaker> Darrow, I have two canvases and use a double-buffering technique.
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# [00:17] <Darrow> andrewjbaker: so I can overlay canvases on top of each other no problem?
# [00:17] <Neiluj_> paulrouget: are you here man ?
# [00:18] <andrewjbaker> You could, yes. And then alter the visibility property to switch between 'em.
# [00:18] <andrewjbaker> That's more page-flipping tho'. I actually render to an off-screen canvas and then copy it to my visible one using drawImage().
# [00:19] <Darrow> Do you have an example of that I could take a look at?
# [00:21] <andrewjbaker> Of the page-flipping, one sec...
# [00:21] <andrewjbaker> Quick and dirty example... http://pastie.org/1550824
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# [00:23] <Darrow> I'll take a look at it, thanks for all of your help!
# [00:23] <andrewjbaker> Darrow, nps.
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# [00:25] <andrewjbaker> Darrow, for an elaborate example of double-buffering, see my work-in-progress, http://fleetingfantasy.com/
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# [00:26] <Darrow> andrewjbaker: will do, thanks again.
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# [00:27] <andrewjbaker> Darrow, you're welcome dude. I'd be interested to hear how you get on.
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# [00:30] <danielfilho> do you guys have some project to fork, when you want to make a presentation in html5?
# [00:30] <danielfilho> like http://slides.html5rocks.com/
# [00:30] <danielfilho> ?
# [00:31] <danielfilho> just found something :D tks anyway
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# [00:42] <danielfilho> compiling chromium takes some time :S
# [00:43] <danielfilho> (forever alone)
# [00:43] <franksalim> and some space
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# [01:12] <tw2113> selectivizr just made my day tomorrow
# [01:12] <tw2113> but i gotta go :D
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# [01:38] <paul_irish> hello ernest_. how can i help you with your html5?
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# [02:03] <franksalim> nope
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# [03:01] <key> when would i use inline-block vs block?
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# [03:11] <BrianBlakely> key: The most important things about inline-block are that it doesn't break a line, and it conforms to the dimensions of its content (unless you set them specifically in some way)
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# [03:13] <key> BrianBlakely: ah ok. so would you expect if someone wanted to lay out a UL as a horizontal menu, and put a border around each item, would you make LI display be inline-block?
# [03:13] <key> or would you change the A in the LI to that?
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# [03:13] <key> i have trouble understanding which item i should modify to create 'buttons'
# [03:13] <key> the container LI, or the content A
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# [03:14] <streblo> why is it that if i call canvas_context.drawImage(img, x, y) my image isn't drawn, but if i supply that line in a function bound to img.onload, the image is drawn?
# [03:15] <streblo> i dont understand why the first method doesnt work
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# [03:17] <streblo> here's what i mean http://dpaste.com/403962/
# [03:18] <BrianBlakely> key: Ah, you can float: left the LIs. Do that, because whitespace in your code can insert a space character between your LIs and throw off your layout
# [03:18] <BrianBlakely> Then, make the <a>s inline-block, and style them into buttony things
# [03:18] <shichuan> because it's not loaded?
# [03:19] <BrianBlakely> shichuan: Correct!
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# [03:19] <shichuan> :)
# [03:19] <BrianBlakely> shichuan: Always set the functionality that involves the image as a callback to the image's load event
# [03:20] <BrianBlakely> Unless you know it will be fully loaded by the time you need it, of course
# [03:20] <BrianBlakely> BUT
# [03:20] <streblo> is there a good way of preloading all of the images so that $(document).ready wont fire until they're all loaded?
# [03:20] <BrianBlakely> Nope
# [03:20] <streblo> actually, thats dumb
# [03:20] <streblo> ill just hide them in the page
# [03:20] <BrianBlakely> Well
# [03:20] <BrianBlakely> There isn't a guarantee that they will be loaded
# [03:21] <BrianBlakely> streblo: Are you only using these in Canvas?
# [03:21] <franksalim> doesn't the load event not fire until all the images have loaded?
# [03:21] <BrianBlakely> franksalim: The window load
# [03:21] <streblo> BrianBlakely: yeah, only using them in a canvas
# [03:22] <franksalim> that's what i meant
# [03:22] <BrianBlakely> franksalim: Then yep
# [03:22] <shichuan> unless maybe creating a loop, load one after another in script, when all loaded, then it's ready
# [03:22] <BrianBlakely> franksalim: But there is a better way IMO
# [03:22] <streblo> i'm trying to create a pretty simple game within a canvas
# [03:22] <streblo> and i have some textures i'm trying to load
# [03:23] <BrianBlakely> streblo: Do something like this: img.addEventListener('load', func, false); img.setAttribute('src', the_src);
# [03:23] <BrianBlakely> streblo: Set the load event BEFORE setting the src
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# [03:23] <streblo> but it looks like they finish loading after the drawImage call
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# [03:23] <shichuan> i am not sure if this helps: http://plugins.jquery.com/project/jQBulkLoader
# [03:23] <grantg> paul_irish: Did you catch my new twitter nick?
# [03:23] <streblo> BrianBlakely: why not just put them all in a div on the page and set visiblity="hidden"
# [03:23] <paul_irish> nope. link me grantg
# [03:23] * grantg == unknownXTR
# [03:24] <paul_irish> hey shichuan.. emailed you back
# [03:24] <grantg> http://twitter.com/#!/unknownXTR
# [03:24] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fOkf3h @unknownXTR: To help those understand, webkit's web audio is event handler based, while mozAudio is pass-to-function based. Two completely different APIs
# [03:24] <grantg> damn bot
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# [03:24] <paul_irish> XAudioJS woohoo
# [03:24] <grantg> :)
# [03:25] <streblo> BrianBlakely: i guess because i'd have to add every single asset to that div
# [03:25] <grantg> paul_irish: My audio lib coming out makes it really easy for audio devs to have cross-browser native js audio
# [03:25] <shichuan> paul_irish: yes, i will be first using mobile h5bp for the mobile page
# [03:25] <grantg> it wraps webkit's web audio and mozAudio
# [03:25] <grantg> and data uri
# [03:25] <paul_irish> grantg: that sounds awesome
# [03:25] <grantg> *WAV PCM data uri audio
# [03:25] <grantg> thanks
# [03:26] <grantg> paul_irish: Lots of copypasta from my emulators' audio code.
# [03:26] <shichuan> paul_irish: do we use the same templating system for the mobile h5bp?
# [03:26] <grantg> So that others need not reinvent the whell
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# [03:26] <grantg> *wheel
# [03:26] <grantg> :/
# [03:27] <BrianBlakely> streblo: For a number of reasons — most of all, they may load before your JavaScript does
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# [03:27] <BrianBlakely> streblo: Lemme send you a code sample real quick
# [03:27] <paul_irish> shichuan: well.. do you want to launch it with the ability to be i15zed ?
# [03:27] <streblo> BrianBlakely: better question. lets say i have a director full of assets for a game i'm making. is there a way to preload every asset from that directory?
# [03:28] <streblo> s/director/directory
# [03:28] <streblo> and its available on my server
# [03:28] <grantg> heh
# [03:28] * grantg finally got to the lighthouse part of pokemon crystal
# [03:29] <shichuan> paul_irish: i think maybe just start with a page first, guess that can be done later
# [03:29] <grantg> inside the gameboy color emulation in firefox 4 I'm running of course. ;D
# [03:29] <grantg> paul_irish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6woEgungIwU
# [03:30] <grantg> some super mario bros. inside safari, nothing much. :)
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# [03:30] <paul_irish> shichuan: yeah that sounds good to me
# [03:30] <paul_irish> thats how we did h5bp.com
# [03:31] <grantg> what's h5bp.com?
# [03:31] <shichuan> arh, ok, cool
# [03:31] <paul_irish> grantg: can you call it Safari Nightly ? :)
# [03:31] <paul_irish> grantg: http://html5boilerplate.com/
# [03:31] <grantg> heh
# [03:31] <grantg> ah
# [03:32] <BrianBlakely> streblo: There are a lot of ways to tackle this. I think the simplest is to create a page with all your images in it. Load that page via an <iframe>, place the <iframe> at the top of your page, hide it so it can't be seen, and wait for its "load" event
# [03:33] <BrianBlakely> streblo: Then, you know ALL your images are loaded
# [03:33] <grantg> woah
# [03:33] <grantg> my firefox nightly messed up that site's title
# [03:33] <grantg> :/
# [03:34] <grantg> looks like there are line artifacts running through the title's text
# [03:34] <grantg> D:
# [03:35] <BrianBlakely> streblo: But you can never really guarantee that the images will be loaded before your script runs, which is why you must tie your functionality to a Load event
# [03:35] <streblo> BrianBlakely: is there an alternative method that's purely js? i dont want to have to keep adding dependencies to the html file. ideally i'd just have a non-async method that would load all of the images in a directory and return once they're all loaded
# [03:37] <grantg> BrainBlakely: And the 1998 method of making sure your scripts run on page load by placing them in a script tag block at the bottom of the document.
# [03:37] <grantg> so much wrong
# [03:37] <grantg> with that
# [03:37] <streblo> grantg: do you have a better way of doing it?
# [03:37] <grantg> readyState?
# [03:38] <franksalim> script at the bottom of the page is better/faster
# [03:38] <BrianBlakely> grantg: You should always place your <script> at the bottom, def
# [03:38] <grantg> DODOMContentLoaded
# [03:38] <grantg> DOMContentLoaded
# [03:38] <streblo> grantg: i'm talking about preloading all of the images within a directory
# [03:38] <grantg> ah
# [03:38] <BrianBlakely> grantg: They're blockers to load the rest of the content
# [03:38] <grantg> ok
# [03:38] <BrianBlakely> :)
# [03:38] <streblo> grantg: i'm talking about loading all of the images in an assets directory on my server for use in a really simple game
# [03:39] <BrianBlakely> streblo: You can't do it synchronously, not possible
# [03:39] <streblo> im not worried about load time, but i am worried about images being fully loaded
# [03:39] <streblo> BrianBlakely: totally impossible?
# [03:39] * grantg curses out magnemite for paralyzing my quilava
# [03:39] <grantg> damn gym boss
# [03:39] <grantg> xD
# [03:40] <BrianBlakely> streblo: I don't want to speak in absolutes, but I'm pretty darn certain
# [03:40] <grantg> aww yeaaah, parlyz heal
# [03:40] <grantg> :D
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# [03:40] <BrianBlakely> grantg: Haha, you're playing PKMN?
# [03:41] <grantg> In the emulator I wrote. ;D
# [03:41] <BrianBlakely> I figured as much :P
# [03:41] <BrianBlakely> grantg: When is your SNES emulator coming out :)
# [03:41] <BrianBlakely> All my favorite RPGs are on there
# [03:41] <grantg> in due time
# [03:42] <grantg> GBA has been on my WIP list
# [03:42] <grantg> It's been WIP for as long as my GBC emulator
# [03:42] <grantg> when GBA is pushed out, SNES will be seriously done
# [03:43] <grantg> My game console emulators are released like firefox releases.
# [03:43] <BrianBlakely> Years apart
# [03:43] <grantg> Original due date in november, then december, then january, now february
# [03:43] <BrianBlakely> bud dum tish
# [03:43] <BrianBlakely> Ah, haha
# [03:44] <BrianBlakely> grantg: Such is my on-the-side game development
# [03:44] <grantg> heh
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# [03:45] <grantg> BrianBlakely: Though writing a CPU in js is a little hard.
# [03:45] <grantg> ;S
# [03:45] <BrianBlakely> grantg: I tried my hand at porting ZSNES to BeOS back in the day
# [03:45] <grantg> lol
# [03:45] <BrianBlakely> …yes, emulators are very complex pieces of software
# [03:46] <grantg> Good luck going through ZSNES' x86 asm
# [03:46] <BrianBlakely> Well, yeah
# [03:46] <grantg> ;D
# [03:46] <BrianBlakely> Eventually it was done, though I kicked the project off, I definitely didn't finish it
# [03:46] <BrianBlakely> I admire your skillz and drive to put together such a beast
# [03:47] <grantg> thanks
# [03:47] <grantg> BrianBlakely: You can help out you know
# [03:47] <grantg> find optimizations
# [03:47] <grantg> add accuracy
# [03:47] <grantg> https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online
# [03:47] <grantg> :)
# [03:48] <grantg> right now making a workaround the JIT bug of V8 and JSC is horrible enough
# [03:48] <grantg> I have to touch thousands of lines for my memory handling code
# [03:48] <grantg> just for google chrome and safari
# [03:48] <grantg> so they don
# [03:49] <grantg> so they don't run half the speed they should
# [03:51] <grantg> BrianBlakely: Be a boss and render all your images in JS and blit them out via putImageData
# [03:51] <grantg> Like what I do with my JS GameBoy Color emulator. ;D
# [03:52] <grantg> disregard the canvas 2d api, compute ALL your graphics via array math.
# [03:52] <grantg> I have to though
# [03:52] <grantg> you though can do otherwise
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# [03:53] <BrianBlakely> I would if I had the bandwidth (i.e. time), it sounds like an adventure, and a field I've always want to mess with more seriously
# [03:53] <grantg> heh
# [03:54] * grantg gets 60 fps doing 3 layer line-by-line scanline rendering in JS this way.
# [03:59] <grantg> paul_irish: I still need to write that blog post explaining how this whole thing was done. :|
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# [04:02] <BrianBlakely> 11
# [04:02] <grantg> ?
# [04:03] <BrianBlakely> Haha, oops
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# [04:04] <BrianBlakely> I was asked about a Facebook thing in an IM. They're switching to a new technology on 3/11
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# [04:08] <grantg> aww yeeaaah, suicine
# [04:08] <grantg> bitch, found you
# [04:08] <grantg> nostalgia FTW
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# [04:11] <grantg> be a boss, make a game console emulator for yourself. :D
# [04:13] <paul_irish> http://www.paulrhayes.com/experiments/sphere/ check out Contact
# [04:14] <paul_irish> grantg: yah you do!
# [04:15] <grantg> ?
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# [04:20] <grantg> http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/fj4eg/made_apples_safari_my_bitch/
# [04:20] <grantg> heh, the first comment is true
# [04:20] <grantg> I repost.
# [04:20] <grantg> Bitches love reposts.
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# [04:25] <grantg> ok, is "realstevejobs" here?
# [04:27] <key> what's suicine?
# [04:27] <grantg> key: IF you never played pokemon, GTFO
# [04:28] <BrianBlakely> Haha, don't let the redditors get you down grantg
# [04:28] <BrianBlakely> The more JS showboating, the better
# [04:28] <grantg> http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/fj4eg/made_apples_safari_my_bitch/c1gbpep
# [04:28] <grantg> It's true. ;)
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# [04:31] <key> never played pokemon
# [04:31] <key> been heterosexual my entire life
# [04:31] <grantg> heh
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# [04:32] * grantg thinks key is a geezer who was too old to have ever even have gotten a gameboy.
# [04:33] <grantg> :P
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# [04:34] <key> i had an original gameboy when i was 8
# [04:35] <key> got nes when i was 8 too
# [04:35] <key> still have both
# [04:35] <grantg> paul_irish: WTF is http://www.zombo.com/ ?
# [04:35] <key> still play both
# [04:35] <grantg> key: heh, 80s kid
# [04:35] <key> yep
# [04:35] <key> <- 31
# [04:37] <grantg> <- 19
# [04:38] <key> how ya likin' that?
# [04:38] <egrouse> <- 100
# [04:38] <grantg> egrouse: Ya having a screen reader there to read the text to ya now?
# [04:38] <grantg> ;)
# [04:38] <BrianBlakely> Secret awesome GB game you never played: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7yfzCJafJM
# [04:38] <egrouse> yes indeed less than grantg great than
# [04:39] <egrouse> great than?
# [04:39] <egrouse> fail
# [04:39] <grantg> ?
# [04:39] <egrouse> i was trying to make a joke and failed, now im going to go cry brb
# [04:40] <grantg> :/
# [04:40] <egrouse> :p
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# [04:43] <paul_irish> :\
# [04:44] <niftylettuce> sup programmer world!
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# [04:45] <niftylettuce> made delicious chipotle chicken tonight, you guys would be jealous of my tastebuds if you only knew
# [04:45] <key> mm
# [04:46] <key> sounds so good
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# [04:57] <niftylettuce> :)
# [04:57] <niftylettuce> mccormick chipotle marinade
# [04:57] <niftylettuce> not bobby flay level yet
# [04:58] <niftylettuce> and can make a pumpkin into a soup breadbowl
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# [06:00] <paul_irish> http://www.belshe.com/2011/02/10/the-era-of-browser-preconnect/
# [06:03] <BrianBlakely> Ahhhh
# [06:04] <BrianBlakely> It'd be great if there were an API to steer this
# [06:04] <BrianBlakely> I feel like there's something already
# [06:05] <BrianBlakely> Riiiight
# [06:05] <BrianBlakely> http://davidwalsh.name/html5-prefetch
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# [06:33] <key> damn
# [06:33] <key> why the fuck does this even need to be built?
# [06:34] <key> i think it's fucked up browsers are becoming spam agents
# [06:34] <key> it's connection spamming and i think a lawyer could make the argument it's a denial of service attack
# [06:35] <key> http://cl.ly/3y0Q3T2q143Z0l2p3G24
# [06:35] <key> can anyone make an interface with css that looks like this?
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# [06:35] <key> i wanna see the different ways ppl style
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# [06:57] <daleharvey> paul_irish you are speaking at js bbq?
# [06:57] <paul_irish> so it seems
# [06:57] <daleharvey> awesome
# [06:58] <daleharvey> about chrome tools no less, I never got into using them as much as firebug, see you there :)
# [06:58] <paul_irish> sweeeeeet
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# [07:25] <key> paul_irish: i need help with css
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# [08:31] <paul_irish> http://www.zdnet.co.uk/i/z5/illo/nw/story_graphics/11jan/browser-war-ie-share-shankland-net-apps.jpg
# [08:32] <antonkovalyov> if you read it backwards, its 90s all over again
# [08:33] <WRA> good to see growth in both safari and chrome
# [08:34] <tw2113> poor opera
# [08:34] <antonkovalyov> where is data from, paul_irish?
# [08:35] <paul_irish> net applications metrics
# [08:35] <WRA> opera needs to die
# [08:36] <antonkovalyov> WRA, why?
# [08:42] <WRA> it renders differently than FF/Chrome ;)
# [08:42] <tw2113> good
# [08:43] <tw2113> if i wanted it rendering pages exactly like in FF/Chrome, i'd use FF or Chrome
# [08:43] <WRA> why don't you go use IE5
# [08:43] <WRA> ;)
# [08:43] <tw2113> because i'm smarter than that
# [08:43] <tw2113> and it's not 2000
# [08:43] <WRA> thats what I tell opera users
# [08:44] <antonkovalyov> WRA, well i work with embedded widgets and firefox acts very differently from chrome
# [08:44] <tw2113> well this is a case of comparing a certain version of IE to a browser in general
# [08:44] <antonkovalyov> which one should die in this case?
# [08:45] <antonkovalyov> also, more browsers are better and for compatibility we have standards. opera is usually a pioneer in terms of standards
# [08:45] <antonkovalyov> what am i saying is — stop beeing a teenager
# [08:45] <antonkovalyov> :)
# [08:46] <WRA> What I am saying, any additional render or "pioneer" of standards brings in complexity to any development
# [08:46] <WRA> so if there were 10 "operas" with a 10% market share that all render differently you'd have to regress against 10 browsers
# [08:46] <WRA> right now there are only 4 big ones with two of them sharing webkit
# [08:46] <antonkovalyov> ya things were much simpler and better with ie6 having 95% of the market
# [08:47] <WRA> perhaps ;)
# [08:47] <antonkovalyov> that's called competition and competition is always good for the market
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# [08:48] <WRA> depends on your point of view
# [08:48] <WRA> Its definately better for the end user
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# [08:48] <WRA> I, for one, would not want to support 10 browsers that had equal market share and rendered differently
# [08:49] * tw2113 points to the idea of websites not needing to look the same across the board
# [08:49] * WRA points to the idea of a business wanting to manage its brand across all platforms
# [08:50] <WRA> Usually that includes making the experience the same on all browsers ;)
# [08:50] * antonkovalyov points that this talk is useless
# [08:50] <tw2113> i'll agree with anton more at this point, simply because it's 1:45am
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# [08:54] <tw2113> don't get a big ego or anything antonkovalyov :P
# [08:54] <antonkovalyov> tw2113, my ego is the size of a small planet
# [08:55] <tw2113> pluto?
# [08:55] <tw2113> no that's not a planet any more
# [08:58] <tw2113> i say have fun with the browser differences when you can
# [08:59] <tw2113> i have ideas for little easter eggs for mobile visitors
# [09:00] <daleharvey> having to deal with rendering differences > browsers not changing for 10 years
# [09:01] <tw2113> ^
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# [09:53] <Neiluj> WRA: Opera have ideas
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# [10:18] <Neiluj> paulrouget: are you here ?
# [10:18] <niftylettuce> woo might have met mrs. nifty lettuce lol
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# [11:10] <jetienne> q. i would like to create+append a iframe element to the body. and do that as fast as possible after the user arrives on the page. officially which event should i wait for before doing it ?
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# [11:17] <Dorward> jetienne: Is there a reason you don't just include it in the HTML source?
# [11:17] <jetienne> yes
# [11:18] <jetienne> if you prefere, replace the word iframe by whatever tag
# [11:19] <paulrouget> Neiluj: yes.
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# [12:05] <Neiluj> paulrouget: got a bug with FF3 :D I know you're not the client support but I didn't find a workaround...
# [12:06] <Neiluj> it happens when a form is "injected", this form have an input file, I set enctype etc... but the file is not sent, did you know about this issue ?
# [12:07] <Neiluj> I'm not sending via ajax of course, just appending the form and its input
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# [12:16] <Dorward> Neiluj: You're not trying to set the value with JS are you?
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# [12:16] <Neiluj> Dorward: no of course
# [12:16] <Neiluj> I can do bad things but not this one :)
# [12:16] <Dorward> :)
# [12:19] <Neiluj> damn I think I made a silly mistake...
# [12:27] <Neiluj> nevermind, I made a mistake
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# [12:46] <paulrouget> Neiluj: ok :)
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# [13:46] <JNZ> So, should <nav> go inside or outside of the main <section> for the page's content?
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# [17:05] <rapha> Hi all!
# [17:05] <rapha> Is there a way to do something like <svg><a href="..."><rect/></a></svg>?
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# [17:08] <nimbupani> yusss rapha
# [17:08] <nimbupani> ?g svg primer
# [17:08] <bot-t> nimbupani, An SVG Primer for Today's Browsers - http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/resources/svgprimer.html
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# [17:10] * rapha looks
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# [17:20] <rapha> nimbupani: okay, so by the lack of any info on "linking" in the chapter "putting SVG in a web page" can I deduce that what I want is not possible?
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# [17:22] <nimbupani> dear lord there is no eg there
# [17:22] <nimbupani> http://www.iheni.com/just-how-accessible-is-svg/
# [17:22] <nimbupani> there is one there
# [17:24] <paul_irish> http://jsfiddle.net/paul/fCrYG/6/
# [17:24] <paul_irish> FIGURED IT OUT
# [17:26] <paul_irish> nimbupani rapha ^
# [17:26] <nimbupani> yah
# [17:28] <Neiluj> we'll need a svgfiddle :D
# [17:29] <Neiluj> I hit run and nothing happened, it sucks
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# [17:33] <paul_irish> thx to Brodingo who made the nice pokeface
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# [17:36] <ben225> paul_irish - are you around?
# [17:36] <paul_irish> sup benjamin
# [17:37] <ben225> how you doing man? I've got a quick yayquery question for you :)
# [17:37] <paul_irish> kay!
# [17:37] <nimbupani> ?yayquery
# [17:37] <bot-t> yayQuery - A jQuery Podcast - http://yayquery.com/
# [17:37] <ben225> yayquery singalong to be more specific nimbupani
# [17:38] <ben225> anyways, got it up and running, im building a video_swap thumbnail gallery for html5
# [17:38] <ben225> having a strange issue with data-stop closing my player...
# [17:38] <ben225> it will hide the entire <video> section
# [17:39] <ben225> you familiar with this at all?
# [17:41] <paul_irish> whoa ummm
# [17:41] <paul_irish> that sounds crazyyyy
# [17:41] <paul_irish> ?g yayquery singalong github
# [17:41] <bot-t> paul_irish, yayquery/jquery-singalong @ GitHub - http://yayquery.github.com/jquery-singalong/
# [17:42] <ben225> yea right?
# [17:43] <paul_irish> ben225: dont know. :/
# [17:44] <danielfilho> paul
# [17:44] <danielfilho> just FTR
# [17:45] <danielfilho> on my chrome the request of boilerplate is returning "failed to load resource" on jquery
# [17:45] <danielfilho> if I put http:// instead of // it works :/
# [17:45] <danielfilho> the protocol-relative url thing
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# [17:46] <ben225> check this out paul_irish:
# [17:46] <mike5w3c> http://twitter.com/#!/html5/status/36101978983632896
# [17:46] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/dFuwHZ @html5: Hosni Mubarak resigns, applies for "Senior Autocrat" position at @bocoup http://workat.bocoup.com/#apply
# [17:46] <mike5w3c> heh
# [17:47] <ben225> paul_irish works fine here =>http://master.thinkdoterra.com/presentation.html/
# [17:47] <ben225> paul_irish is strange here =>http://master.thinkdoterra.com/
# [17:47] <paul_irish> danielfilho: yeah you're developing with local files right
# [17:47] <nimbupani> lawls mike5w3c
# [17:47] <paul_irish> mike5w3c: hahaahha
# [17:47] <mike5w3c> socialhapy: I think the bocoup crew must be behind that somehow
# [17:47] <danielfilho> paul_irish: right. forget to put them on apache. my bad :S
# [17:47] <danielfilho> just moved them. thanks :D
# [17:48] <ben225> paul_irish if you click on one of the lower videos it gets strange, once my data-stop comes, it hides the whole video
# [17:48] <mike5w3c> bocoup is like the Insane Clown Posse
# [17:49] <paul_irish> ben225: you should probalby use popcorn.js instead of my quick hack
# [17:49] <paul_irish> :)
# [17:49] <ben225> oh, im not familiar, i'll check it out now :)
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# [18:01] <paul_irish> ben225: http://weblog.bocoup.com/popcorn-js-0-2-released
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# [18:11] <Neiluj> damn ... one more thing I wrote myself
# [18:11] <Neiluj> paul_irish: but... it does only <video> right ?
# [18:12] <paul_irish> i'm sure it can do audio without a problem
# [18:12] <Neiluj> no I mean, that's not a polyfill with flash fallback
# [18:14] <paul_irish> right now, no.
# [18:17] <Michael> Flash fallback = facepalm
# [18:17] <Michael> That's all I will ever say about that.
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# [18:47] <Neiluj> Michael: never heard about accessibility ? :)
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# [18:48] <Michael> I have that's why flash fallbacks are fail.
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# [19:17] <alrra> paul_irish: when are you planning to update the html5boilerplate site to 1.0 ? (https://github.com/nimbupani/html5boilerplate-site/issues#issue/28)
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# [19:28] <paul_irish> when its ready geez
# [19:28] <c0der> Hello. For a current project I am looking for a video-hosting/streaming company which can stream my uploads in mpg4/h.264, ogg, webm and flv to html5-browsers and flash-players. any recommendations? Own hosting on own server is not possible.
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# [19:28] <paul_irish> the guys who run videojs are good guys
# [19:28] <paul_irish> zencoder i think
# [19:28] <c0der> I tried kewego.com, they only stream h.264 to iPhone, not browsers, same for brightcove afaik.
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# [19:29] <c0der> paul_irish: zencoder looks interesting, thanks.
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# [19:30] <c0der> paul_irish: but seems they do no hosting, only the conversions
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# [19:33] <paul_irish> orly
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# [19:33] <paul_irish> hm
# [19:33] <paul_irish> hey are you guys related ?
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# [19:33] <paul_irish> guess so.
# [19:33] <c0d3r> yes
# [19:33] <c0d3r> just found that I can use multi-tabs in web-client, sorry
# [19:35] * c0d3r would basically need a commercial company which offers a combination of zencoder.com and an amazon cloud or similar with a more or less simple api.
# [19:36] <c0d3r> so I can upload some video and then use it in my desired codec in video-tag or flash-fallbacks etc.
# [19:37] <c0d3r> any suggestions welcome. besides kewego.com or brightcove.com
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# [19:46] <tbassetto> c0d3r: vid.ly or SublimeVideo Cloud ?
# [19:47] <c0d3r> tbassetto: thanks, checking.
# [19:49] <c0d3r> tbassetto: seems vid.ly is still beta and invite-only, did you work with it?
# [19:49] <tbassetto> nope sorry. I'm afraid both are in beta :/ but I know people using it
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# [19:50] <c0d3r> tbassetto: thanks.
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# [19:57] <c0d3r> tbassetto: is anybody you know around who uses vid.ly beta?
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# [19:59] <Michael> I do
# [19:59] <Michael> Well I have an account
# [19:59] <tbassetto> Sorry, I know only one person but he no longer has invites. You can try to contact and convinced them that you will be a good beta-tester :)
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# [20:00] <c0d3r> Michael: do they also offer stream as webm?
# [20:00] <Michael> Yes
# [20:01] <Michael> webm, ogg, mp4, and mov
# [20:02] <c0d3r> Michael: Thanks, Do they have an api like ../getVideoWhatever/?codec=mp4 or similar? With some sort of enable/disable the content? Or "only" direct links to converted files?
# [20:02] * ericduran is now known as ericduran|afk
# [20:03] <Michael> Yes the pro version has more features too
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# [20:03] * c0d3r would need direct control over which format is streamed, no "auto-sense"
# [20:04] <c0d3r> Michael: Did you use it somewhere already? Like I could take a look?
# [20:04] <Michael> I have not because our videos are classified at this point so hosting them with a 3rd party vendor wouldn't be a good idea
# [20:05] <c0d3r> Client has a meeting on monday with his boss, best alternative until then wins. :-)
# [20:06] <c0d3r> Michael: no problem. Just interested in the technical parts like how do I select the codec for stream etc.
# [20:06] <Michael> I don't work for vid.ly :) I work for the Walt Disney Company
# [20:06] <Michael> From everything I've seen... it seems very robust
# [20:06] <Michael> Did you request an invite?
# [20:06] <c0d3r> Michael: yes, 20 mins ago
# [20:06] <Michael> Oh okay
# [20:06] <Michael> It took me a few hours to get a response
# [20:07] <c0d3r> And it's weekend...
# [20:07] <Michael> Yes
# [20:07] <tbassetto> http://hacks.mozilla.org/2011/01/simple-html5-video-encoding-with-vid-ly-interview-first-impressions-and-invite-code/
# [20:07] <Michael> ^^ thank you
# [20:07] <c0d3r> Michael: can you quote some (anonymized) code where I could see how the video-tag is used?
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# [20:07] <c0d3r> oh, checking the link...
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# [20:08] <Michael> c0d3r, "Now all you need to remember is very simple piece of HTML5 video code referencing a single url and we do the rest."
# [20:08] <c0d3r> tbassetto: thanks for that link.
# [20:09] <tbassetto> no pb
# [20:09] <c0d3r> Michael: well, I still need control about the codec used. If ogg or mp4 or webm, I want to decide. Checking the site now..
# [20:09] <tbassetto> bye
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# [20:10] <Michael> From what I gather that is part of their purpose.. to decide for you based on the device and browser that is visiting your site
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# [20:10] <c0d3r> Michael: yes, I just read "the vid.ly universal embed code"
# [20:11] <Michael> It seems cool to me... just not applicable for what I'm doing at this time.
# [20:11] <c0d3r> Michael: I can't include such code, it's a banking-site. I only can allow external data-feed directly.
# [20:11] <c0d3r> so "vid.ly pro" is my friend
# [20:11] <Michael> I can't speak for that. I know banking sites have a entirely different set of rules to adhere to
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# [20:18] <c0d3r> Got a confirmation from vid.ly, has the same code as posted in above link.
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# [20:19] <paul_irish> http://www.digitalgangster.com/4um/showthread.php?124777-why-can-t-you-save-files-as-32bit-.png-with-photoshop-cs5
# [20:19] <c0d3r> quite fast.
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# [20:29] <Michael> paul_irish, whoah
# [20:30] <Michael> Hostility++
# [20:30] * ericduran|afk is now known as ericduran
# [20:30] <c0d3r> 19:42 tbassetto suggests link, 20:25 test successful, that's how I like to work.
# [20:31] <Michael> pretty fast :)
# [20:31] <c0d3r> Michael: successful test with vid.ly, direct urls are available (as documented in the mozilla-link) to amazon...
# [20:31] <Michael> Very cool :)
# [20:31] <Michael> That's good to know.
# [20:32] <c0d3r> did feed vid.ly with some 2-minutes .mp4 from microsoft.com, now trying the real content :-)
# [20:32] <c0d3r> quite many .mp4 on ms.com, didn't know that...
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# [20:34] <c0d3r> But have to train my spamfilter a bit, all vid.ly emails went to spam..
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# [20:35] <c0d3r> can recommend http://vid.ly
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# [20:37] <mokush> anybody got a spare forrst invite?
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# [20:49] <c0d3r> Thanks everybody. If somebody sees tbassetto later, please say thanks from c0d3r for his vid.ly suggestion and link.
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# [20:57] <jetienne> anybody tried transloadit.com ?
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# [21:08] <tw2113> can't say yes
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# [21:45] <key> yo
# [21:45] <key> any of you guys invoice clients with paypal?
# [21:47] * key is now known as hobojoe
# [21:47] * hobojoe is now known as key
# [21:48] <tw2113> good lil mental debate for myself...lunch or jump into some code rewriting
# [21:48] <key> hey sup tw2113
# [21:48] <tw2113> 'bating :D
# [21:48] <tw2113> food or code
# [21:49] <key> uh, masturbating?
# [21:49] <key> creep, if so
# [21:49] <key> OH, [de]bating! lol
# [21:50] <tw2113> i shouldn't have gone with that joke
# [21:50] <key> no
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# [22:05] <BrianBlakely> Nobody here works on Firebug, by any chance?
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# [22:26] <grantg> paul_irish: http://twitter.com/#!/unknownXTR/status/36172278907670528
# [22:26] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/edBXdY @unknownXTR: public-xg-audio@w3.org apparently does not want me to submit emails to it. I'll nickname you the black hole of my emails. :/
# [22:27] <paul_irish> how so
# [22:28] <grantg> emails are not showing up on the list, two weeks after emailing?
# [22:28] <grantg> even after I did the whole verification thing
# [22:28] <grantg> It's like the server has amnesia
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# [22:41] <grantg> W3C Mailing List: A miscommunication
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# [22:42] <grantg> paul_irish: I got my first negative karma on a comment I made today. :/
# [22:43] <grantg> on reddit
# [22:43] <BrianBlakely> Were you… trolling?
# [22:43] <grantg> nah
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# [22:43] <grantg> just reposting
# [22:45] <tw2113> they'll live
# [22:45] <grantg> "I repost, bitches love reposts."
# [22:45] <grantg> 16 link karma -1 comment karma
# [22:46] <grantg> negative comment karma...
# [22:46] <grantg> fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu
# [22:46] <paul_irish> reddit people arent the biggest sweethearts
# [22:46] <grantg> paul_irish: I lost my 400 karma points from my old account being hacked. :/
# [22:46] <Pewpewarrows> oh noes, the karma!
# [22:47] <paul_irish> what's the value of reddit karma?
# [22:47] <paul_irish> o right. nuthin
# [22:47] <paul_irish> hey Pewpewarrows do you know how much karma you need on HN to downvote?
# [22:47] <Pewpewarrows> it's 500 now
# [22:47] <grantg> circle/jerk/circlejerk/karma/karma_whore
# [22:47] <Pewpewarrows> spent 2 hours googling for that shit this past week
# [22:48] <Pewpewarrows> because it was 200 at some point
# [22:48] <Pewpewarrows> and everyone just keeps reposting that it's 200
# [22:48] <paul_irish> k thx
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# [22:49] <grantg> paul_irish: No posts? http://www.reddit.com/user/paulirish/
# [22:49] <grantg> :/
# [22:50] <Pewpewarrows> he doesn't need no stinkin posts
# [22:50] * grantg gets slowly sucked into the black hole that reddit is.
# [22:50] <grantg> Meanwhile - http://sp.reddit.com/sidt-heavy.png
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# [22:51] <Pewpewarrows> I finally got my reddit per day down to like an hour or so
# [22:51] <Pewpewarrows> and then convore came out
# [22:51] <Pewpewarrows> and it all went to shit
# [22:51] <tw2113> i imagine a lot of people said the same about digg at its peak
# [22:51] <paul_irish> grantg: theres my other account http://paulirish.com/i/4250.png
# [22:51] <paul_irish> 16 points. \o/
# [22:52] <grantg> heh
# [22:52] <grantg> more than me.
# [22:52] <tw2113> i'm at 15 link points
# [22:53] <Moo-_> was there a blog post somewhere about html5 game engines?
# [22:53] <Moo-_> I saw it
# [22:53] <Moo-_> but can't find it anymre :(
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# [22:53] <Pewpewarrows> there was a good reddit post / google doc summing them up
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# [22:53] <paul_irish> its a gist. sec.
# [22:53] <paul_irish> https://gist.github.com/768272
# [22:54] * grantg still hasn't made a blog post about the gameboy color emulator in js.
# [22:54] <Pewpewarrows> oh that was it
# [22:54] <grantg> Instead I've been spamming the reddit.
# [22:54] <grantg> and making the Reddit too damn slow. :/
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# [22:56] <grantg> oops - http://i.imgur.com/PcFeQ.jpg
# [22:56] <Moo-_> paul_irish: thanks. you rock.
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# [23:00] * grantg stays classy and uses Google cache to view Reddit when it's down. :D
# [23:02] <cgcardona> grantg: ftw
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# [23:08] <BrianBlakely> Anyone using Firebug Lite in IE (because it's awesome) should be aware of issues in IE9: http://code.google.com/p/fbug/issues/detail?id=4063
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# [23:08] <BrianBlakely> I filed that bug, so if anyone else is experiencing something different, I'd like to know!
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# [23:10] <tw2113> anyone here decent with cURL?
# [23:10] <cgcardona> tw2113: howdy
# [23:10] <tw2113> yo
# [23:11] <grantg> hey
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# [23:12] <grantg> tw2113: I like to get a lower level API access on PHP
# [23:12] <grantg> fsockopen FTW
# [23:12] <grantg> http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.fsockopen.php
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# [23:16] <tw2113> well i know curl is enabled on the server
# [23:19] * grantg trolled the first IE8 user today by http://www.grantgalitz.org/gameboy/css/GameBoy.css.php
# [23:19] <grantg> They view sourced in IE8 and Firefox 4
# [23:19] <grantg> then bitched how it was different for each browser.
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# [23:21] <tw2113> should we play tiny violins for him?
# [23:22] <grantg> If you thought that was bad, then I'll leave this here: http://www.grantgalitz.org/main_site/specifics/css/lakelouise.css.php
# [23:22] <grantg> Different for EVERY version of IE
# [23:23] <grantg> even old Firefox gets spoon fed different CSS
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# [23:24] <grantg> IE 5/5.5/6 get crazy margin rules so that the crashers in IE don't blow up the visitor's computers. ;D
# [23:25] <grantg> and so that shit doesn't fly all across the monitor as if IE is on LSD
# [23:26] <paul_irish> smooth
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# [23:27] <grantg> paul_irish: An adventure into why IE really does suck. :(
# [23:28] <grantg> IE5 math: You can't even explain it
# [23:28] <grantg> Two wrongs make a right
# [23:28] <grantg> especially with absolute positioning
# [23:30] * Quits: sl1k (~Slick@S010600215a08cecc.cg.shawcable.net)
# [23:30] <grantg> paul_irish: http://pastebin.com/TGb8SCV4
# [23:31] <grantg> gotta love the if ($UA->int_version() < 7 && $UA->int_version() >= 5.5) {
# [23:34] <grantg> CSS IE6 crasher: width: expression((document.body.clientWidth <= 975) ? "975px" : "auto"); /*IE 6 crashes if 'less than' target width, so trigger on 'equal to' as well*/
# [23:35] <grantg> :P
# [23:36] <paul_irish> ^ is pretty effing crazy
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# [23:38] * snover is now known as snover|away
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# [23:39] <andrewjbaker> I've been toying with adding 'real' water to my landscape renderer rather than working 'fake' water into my colormap.
# [23:39] <andrewjbaker> Here's a screenshot... http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3121/landscaperenderer15.png
# [23:40] <andrewjbaker> But I've run into a problem trying to return CanvasPixelArray data from a function.
# [23:40] <andrewjbaker> It always returns undefined.
# [23:40] <andrewjbaker> One sec. I'll paste the code...
# [23:41] <grantg> All time favorite IE5 CSS bug: width: 100%; /*IE 5 div width calculation bug*/
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# [23:41] * Quits: mikimoto (~Adium@219.85.144.55) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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# [23:41] <andrewjbaker> http://pastie.org/1554339
# [23:42] <franksalim> I have a favorite IE on Windows 9x bug, but it is not CSS related
# [23:42] <franksalim> <img src="c:\con\con"> = insta bluescreen
# [23:43] <grantg> heh
# [23:43] * Joins: danbeam (~anonymous@cpe-75-83-194-56.socal.res.rr.com)
# [23:44] <BrianBlakely> Colleague of mine likes to tell a joke:
# [23:44] <BrianBlakely> "Why is it called IE?"
# [23:44] <BrianBlakely> "Because that's the sound you make when you see your work in it. AYYYEEEEEEEE :O"
# [23:46] <andrewjbaker> There's no .slice() function on CanvasPixelArray either.
# [23:46] <Moo-_> aye aye captain
# [23:46] <Moo-_> can I run HTML5 / Javascript code directly from github?
# [23:47] <Moo-_> or any other publicly hosted version control repo?
# [23:48] <danbeam> Moo-_: seems like you can do anything client-side you want on github - it's just hosting static assets for you
# [23:48] <danbeam> http://davglass.github.com/
# [23:48] <danbeam> example
# [23:48] <danbeam> haha
# [23:49] * Quits: figital (~figital@64.119.153.2) (Quit: Leaving)
# [23:49] <Moo-_> danbeam: thanks
# [23:49] <Moo-_> that's exactly what I was looking for
# [23:52] <grantg> andrewjbaker: THERE USED to be .slice()
# [23:52] <grantg> Now it's .subset()
# [23:52] <andrewjbaker> grantg, OK. One sec... ;-)
# [23:53] * Quits: ben_alman (~ben_alman@64.119.153.2) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [23:53] <grantg> typed array people are trolling you dude. ;D
# [23:55] <andrewjbaker> grantg, Object #<a CanvasPixelArray> has no method 'subset' :-(
# [23:55] * Quits: dcadenas (~dcadenas@r186-48-245-14.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [23:55] <grantg> hmm
# [23:55] <franksalim> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#canvaspixelarray
# [23:55] <franksalim> i'm not seeing any subset or slice here
# [23:56] <grantg> hmm
# [23:56] <grantg> It's a typed array, no?
# [23:56] <grantg> heh
# [23:56] <andrewjbaker> I think my problem is that I need to return the CanvasPixelArray by value rather than reference. Hence looking at using .slice() or similar.
# [23:56] <franksalim> i don't believe so
# [23:56] <grantg> Uint8Array?
# [23:56] <franksalim> canvaspixelarray predates typedarray
# [23:56] <grantg> but with a different type?
# [23:56] <grantg> true
# [23:56] <grantg> anyhow, typed arrays did just drop .slice for .subset
# [23:57] <andrewjbaker> I even tried creating a conventional array and setting its elements one by one; data2[0] = data[0]; And then doing a data2.slice(). Still no joy.
# [23:58] <andrewjbaker> I need to get this implemented and then we can have sexy reflections in the water for the renderer.
# [23:59] <andrewjbaker> All the calls to console.log() return the correct data.
# [23:59] * Quits: Trisox (Trisox@g31044.upc-g.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# Session Close: Sat Feb 12 00:00:00 2011

The end :)