/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-02-14 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Feb 14 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [02:13] * niftylettuce crickets
# [02:13] <paul_irish> Google Chrome extension lets you use IE9 pinned site actions on supported sites https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/foekkphhdncclpelbmngokikjnkikpad?hl=en-US
# [02:14] <niftylettuce> thats pretty slick
# [02:14] <niftylettuce> any extensions need developed?
# [02:14] <key> any css geniuses? noone in #css can do what i need
# [02:14] <niftylettuce> html5 related?
# [02:14] <niftylettuce> sup key?
# [02:14] <key> hey man, are you pretty good with css layout?
# [02:15] <niftylettuce> html5 related was towards the extension conversation
# [02:15] <niftylettuce> key, what are you trying to do
# [02:15] <key> i have a menu + submenu in structured data or mark up. it's a UL within another UL
# [02:15] <key> i need main menu (first UL) to be horizontal
# [02:16] <key> then i need the sub menu to be horizontal, left aligned with main menu, but 40px below it
# [02:16] <key> if you have an email i can send you a mockup
# [02:18] <niftylettuce> niftylettuce@gmail.com
# [02:18] <niftylettuce> but you should really just pastebin
# [02:18] <tw2113> basically 2 horizontal menus, one below the other and only shown when hovering over the list item in the first menu
# [02:18] <niftylettuce> http://pastebin.com
# [02:18] <key> tw2113: no, not only shown when hovering
# [02:18] <key> please allow me to speak for myself
# [02:19] <tw2113> just saying how i took it :D
# [02:19] <key> niftylettuce: i priv msg'd you a link to the mock up image and a link tothe html + more details
# [02:19] <niftylettuce> key please keep discussion in #html5
# [02:19] <key> http://www.pastie.org/private/xo1w15miulgzf3ho9oya
# [02:19] <key> http://cl.ly/3y0Q3T2q143Z0l2p3G24
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# [02:20] <niftylettuce> tw2113, want to take a look at that? I'm in middle of DNS setup
# [02:21] <tw2113> not particularly
# [02:21] <tw2113> but i can
# [02:21] <niftylettuce> i could look in ~15
# [02:21] <paul_irish> niftylettuce: https://github.com/paulirish/lazyweb-requests/issues#issue/23
# [02:21] <key> dude ill fucking pay whoever can actually build the css i need
# [02:21] <key> maybe paul irish wants to make a little cash, i've heard he's pretty good
# [02:21] <key> kroc camen too
# [02:21] <paul_irish> i'm good yo
# [02:21] <key> i emailed him
# [02:23] <niftylettuce> key: if you want to go pro and build CSS in like 2 seconds then look into SASS and Compass (http://sass-lang.com) and (http://compass-style.org)
# [02:24] <niftylettuce> key: I can take a look in ~10
# [02:25] <key> ive spent enough days trying to get this to work. i have my design, and i have my structured data. now i just need it properly styled and ill pay for that
# [02:25] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, I'll see if I can tackle that extension, never built one, wanted a project to get involved more with Google..
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# [02:25] <niftylettuce> key: you don't have to pay me, I will help you
# [02:25] <niftylettuce> key: your PNG looks simple
# [02:26] <tw2113> ul li ul {display: none;}
# [02:26] <niftylettuce> key: gimme a few mins bro, major DNS overhaul
# [02:26] <key> niftylettuce: i will appreciate your help, and also pay you
# [02:26] <key> ok np
# [02:26] <tw2113> ul li:hover ul {display: block;}
# [02:26] <niftylettuce> tw2113: http://jsfiddle.net
# [02:26] <key> tw2113: how many more times do i have to tell you i dont want this hover thing you have an obsession with?
# [02:26] <niftylettuce> key: be nice man he's trying to help
# [02:26] <tw2113> are they both shown at the same time?
# [02:27] <key> i'm not trying to be a dick, he's just not listening to me
# [02:27] <key> it's frustrating
# [02:27] <niftylettuce> key: "actually, I might have explained it better by saying ______"
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# [02:27] <tw2113> or just the top one until you need the bottom one?
# [02:27] <key> there will always be the main menu showing, every page. there will also always be A submenu showing, depending on which main menu section is selected
# [02:28] <key> no dynamic anything. hover, mouseover, etc. all static
# [02:28] <key> server side will move the nested submenu UL around
# [02:28] <tw2113> ah, it's all conditional based on what page you're on
# [02:28] <key> rather, section you're in
# [02:28] <tw2113> it's all conditonal based on where you are
# [02:28] <key> but yea
# [02:28] <key> static page content
# [02:28] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, I'll see if I can tackle that extension, wanted a project to learn how with, ty
# [02:29] <paul_irish> :)
# [02:29] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, to learn how to make an extension*
# [02:29] <tw2113> then this is technically not much related to css
# [02:29] <tw2113> it's all determining what area you're on and displaying the 2ndary code based on that
# [02:29] <key> *sigh*
# [02:29] <key> tw2113: i appreciate you trying to help but it isn't goign to work between us
# [02:29] <niftylettuce> key, you basically want current page to show current section links?
# [02:29] <key> yes
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# [02:30] <tw2113> i challenge you to use css alone to conditionally show the menu based on where you are
# [02:30] <niftylettuce> key, you using jQuery/JavaScript or a scripting language like PHP/Ruby/Python?
# [02:30] <key> but go off of my material more than tw2113's misunderstandings please
# [02:30] <key> it's just going to confuse this
# [02:30] <key> no
# [02:30] <key> scripting language, server side.
# [02:30] <niftylettuce> what is the scripting language
# [02:30] <key> tw2113: you aren't understanding, please stop
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# [02:30] <key> it's irrelevant
# [02:30] <tw2113> bs
# [02:31] <niftylettuce> its not irrelevant you need code to pass either GET or POST or conditional most likely
# [02:31] <key> i will handle that
# [02:31] <key> please stay focused on the issue at hand
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# [02:33] <tw2113> :D
# [02:34] <niftylettuce> tw2113: i like your leave msg :)
# [02:34] <niftylettuce> quit*
# [02:34] <tw2113> i have no idea what it was
# [02:34] <niftylettuce> (Quit: I was raided by the FBI and all I got to keep was this lousy quit message!)
# [02:34] <tw2113> i think i have xchat with a plugin that randomizes it
# [02:34] <niftylettuce> nice, i must find that plugin
# [02:34] <tw2113> uberscript
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# [02:36] <paul_irish> http://www.googleaxis.com/
# [02:37] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, so slick!!!!!
# [02:39] <jamescarr_> so slick I crapped my pants
# [02:39] <jamescarr_> :-P
# [02:41] <snover> oh, that’s a mrdoob thing isn’t it
# [02:42] <paul_irish> might be. lots of global variables. :)
# [02:44] <snover> I remember seeing it on his site
# [02:44] <daleharvey> hey paul_irish, are you putting up the slides / etherpad from your talk last night? may have made a converter out of me
# [02:47] <paul_irish> daleharvey: http://typewith.me/eIb34RTxaE here ya go
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# [02:50] <niftylettuce> ooo SASS and Compass extensions
# [02:50] <niftylettuce> many ideas!
# [02:50] <daleharvey> awesome, cheers
# [02:58] <paul_irish> http://jsdo.it/t02uk/yJS8
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# [03:11] <key> tables for layout here i come!
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# [03:13] <paul_irish> http://my.opera.com/karlcow/blog/index.dml/tag/web%20standards%20links are quite good
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# [03:50] <gandoff> does the border factor in to the width of a box?
# [03:50] <gandoff> or just content + padding?
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# [03:53] <grantg> paul_irish: Firefox 4 no likey http://www.googleaxis.com/
# [03:53] <grantg> :/
# [03:53] <paul_irish> o rly
# [03:53] <paul_irish> bummr
# [03:53] <grantg> I'm seeing rendering artifacts in Firefox 4 definitely
# [03:53] <paul_irish> saw you on the @font-face bugzilla bug
# [03:53] <tw2113> all it's supposed to do is rotate the items on the page right?
# [03:54] <paul_irish> when you search for shit its kinda neat
# [03:54] <grantg> like the text is getting clipped wrong and firefox draws a black line on the right side of some characters.
# [03:54] <paul_irish> search for two separate things, tw
# [03:54] <Pewpewarrows> based on the position of your cursor and its proximity to an interactive element
# [03:54] <Pewpewarrows> ya
# [03:54] <grantg> paul_irish: I believe honestly that the @font-face bug is not a bug, but purely an ambiguity
# [03:55] <grantg> I think that there needs to be a CSS property to define how to handle loading the fonts
# [03:55] <grantg> to define whether to do something like visibility: hidden while load, do a wait then show default, or show at all times
# [03:55] <Pewpewarrows> I can't ever imagine anyone wanting the fallback font to flash onscreen
# [03:56] <grantg> Pewpewarrows: Still, it's an ambiguity that NEEDS to get defined
# [03:56] <paul_irish> yeah john kinda under-specced it
# [03:56] <tw2113> *shrugs* i'm not seeing much for issues
# [03:56] <Pewpewarrows> oh, in the spec itself
# [03:56] <grantg> Some people might want their text displayed as soon as it's downloaded
# [03:56] <Pewpewarrows> yeah I'd agree there
# [03:56] <paul_irish> webkit has a patch waiting that has a 500ms timeout.. FF's is 3000ms
# [03:56] <paul_irish> and IE9 has the full Firefox style FOUT
# [03:56] <grantg> with the font-face being a designer-oriented extra to spice up the page
# [03:56] <grantg> paul_irish: I believe the timeout could be a CSS property!
# [03:56] <grantg> heh
# [03:57] <Pewpewarrows> does the IE9 RC not have HTML5 history pushstate etc?
# [03:57] <grantg> I think there needs to be two properties added
# [03:58] <grantg> one to define whether to show at all time or to hide while downloading
# [03:58] <grantg> and the other being a timeout if the first property has a "third" option specified for a delay
# [03:58] <paul_irish> Pewpewarrows: nope
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# [03:58] <grantg> seems appropriate to allow the web developer to control this
# [03:58] <Pewpewarrows> dammit
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# [03:59] <grantg> Since there seems to be general ambiguity and purpose here on the feature to include
# [03:59] <Pewpewarrows> couildn't they have spent the time it took to program the jump lists feature and just added more spec items
# [04:00] * grantg thinks that people can just do visibility: hidden on the text, and listen for the font to finish downloading to show the font
# [04:00] <grantg> of course listening on the download might be a problem
# [04:01] <grantg> doing some data uri hackery and dl'ing the font-face via ajax and applying it with some DHTML might cure any problems of flickery text in old FF
# [04:01] <grantg> and then switch the text from visisbility: hidden to visible
# [04:02] <paul_irish> window.applicationCache && applicationCache.addEventListener("progress", function(evt) {if (evt.loaded) {document.querySelector("#loading").innerHTML = "(" + Math.round((evt.loaded / evt.total) * 100) + "%)"}}, false);
# [04:02] <grantg> too much though to ask for a developer to do
# [04:03] <grantg> I think we should go with a CSS property defining this ambiguity
# [04:03] <grantg> rather than making custom handling in each browser for it.
# [04:05] <grantg> paul_irish: Found some more 'WTF' bugs with web audio. :/
# [04:05] <grantg> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-audio/2011Feb/0049.html
# [04:06] <grantg> not to mention firefox 4's audio data api has a bad bug with mozCurrentSampleOffset
# [04:06] <grantg> For the LOVE OF GOD, DO NOT PUT A MACBOOK TO SLEEP WHILE RUNNING AN AUDIO DATA API DEMO IN FIREFOX 4!
# [04:06] <grantg> that messes up mozCurrentSampleOffset
# [04:07] <grantg> D:
# [04:07] <grantg> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633796
# [04:08] <grantg> Try to torture firefox by putting a macbook with it on to sleep and awakening it
# [04:08] <grantg> http://audioscene.org/scene-files/yury/examples/piano.html
# [04:09] <grantg> will cause over-buffering to hell
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# [04:16] <grantg> WTF? http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/fkjkf/angrybirds_egypt/c1gmm3l?context=3
# [04:16] <grantg> -5 points. :/
# [04:17] <grantg> Yet I get 55 points for this: http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/fkijj/signal_flares/c1gmlbh
# [04:17] <paul_irish> hahahahaha grant.. -7 now
# [04:18] <grantg> D:
# [04:18] <grantg> I don't understand Reddit, b/c the comments I make without thought get upvoted all the way, while the ones I ask questions on seem downvoted to hell.
# [04:19] <paul_irish> "angry birds" is a game that has consumed millions and millions of hours of people's lives.. pretty much wasted now.. all while you have been doing incredibly productive shit.
# [04:19] <grantg> heh
# [04:19] <grantg> nah, reddit is unproductive
# [04:19] <tw2113> my question is which has consumed more time....angry birds or IE debugging
# [04:19] <paul_irish> reddit too.
# [04:19] <grantg> I filled the angry birds void with reddit time
# [04:19] <paul_irish> tw2113: yeah well there is an actual useful result to IE debugging
# [04:20] <tw2113> very true
# [04:20] <grantg> paul_irish: After doing IE debugging for hours on end, you learn to hate IE and ask why the f**k you just spent 5 hours writing custom CSS for some P.O.S. for a customer used to some program they know nothing about.
# [04:21] <tw2113> my favorite tweet regarding egypt was this, in verbatim "gawker launches their new design. Egypt, after seeing the design, requested that their internet be shut off again"
# [04:21] <grantg> "It works with all these sites, so my site better work with it too." <--- Fuck this shit
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# [04:27] <grantg> paul_irish: Do you think I should use the negative amplitude range as well for audio output?
# [04:27] <paul_irish> yes.
# [04:27] <grantg> Right now I have it as positive edge only
# [04:27] <grantg> B/C pops and crackles are way more noticeable when the amplitude spans across positive and negative
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# [04:28] <gandoff> if im making a horizontal menu using UL LI items, is it better to stylize the LI or the A within it?
# [04:28] <grantg> since the audio itself is only positive oriented (only additive, meaning it only goes up, so the algo used is 2 * amplitude - 1)
# [04:28] <gandoff> not sure which one i should make inline-block, etc
# [04:29] <grantg> paul_irish: I reverted it from using both types of amplitude back to positive edge: https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online/commit/34da9caf817e95c6d6346752d52bb674e37075b4
# [04:30] <gandoff> ??
# [04:30] <grantg> b/c of the clicks and pops from firefox's GC stopping the audio being heard
# [04:30] <grantg> since neutral then was -1 and not zero when the negative edge is utilized
# [04:30] <paul_irish> gandoff: the A element
# [04:30] <paul_irish> larger click targets == good
# [04:30] <gandoff> paul_irish: ok, thank you!
# [04:31] <tw2113> i've always done the li's inline and then the links block
# [04:31] <gandoff> A inline-block you mean?
# [04:31] <tw2113> nope, i don't use that one much
# [04:32] * grantg lols at anyone trying to do inline-block in IE6
# [04:32] <grantg> good luck with the workarounds and IE6's fuzzy logic
# [04:33] <gandoff> but when i change my LI's A to display block, it goes back to vertical list
# [04:33] <gandoff> vs horizontal
# [04:34] <tw2113> try floating the li's
# [04:36] <gandoff> keep the LI inline display?
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# [04:37] <tw2113> yeah
# [04:37] <tw2113> li {float: left; display: inline} li a {display: block;}
# [04:37] <gandoff> nice, that closes the gap between them that was there too
# [04:37] <gandoff> so mouse doesn't change
# [04:37] <tw2113> ;)
# [04:38] <gandoff> i just tried making my main menu's LI float and the A block, and it went vertical
# [04:38] <gandoff> (the main menu's UL is position: relative)
# [04:39] <gandoff> if that is relevant at all
# [04:40] <tw2113> hmm
# [04:40] <grantg> tw2113: Firefox just ate up a gig in 30 seconds. ಠ_ಠ
# [04:40] * grantg doesn't think firefox even has a GC
# [04:40] <tw2113> feed it on a regular schedule and it won't be ram hungry at the wrong times, grantg
# [04:41] <gandoff> tw2113: why this happen?
# [04:41] <tw2113> *shrugs* i can't see the code
# [04:42] <gandoff> well it's pretty simple: UL is position: relative, LI is inline, A is inline-block. looks fine. change LI to float: left and A to display block, list goes vertical
# [04:43] <gandoff> so the only change is i make LI float: left and change A to display block from display inline-block
# [04:43] <tw2113> i'd be able to debug better if i could see it in action somehow
# [04:43] <grantg> tw2113: Firefox in denial: http://imgur.com/rDh6V
# [04:43] <gandoff> tw2113: k sec
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# [04:45] <gandoff> http://www.jsfiddle.net/peqK5/
# [04:45] <gandoff> the revision you had me to worked great for sub menu, it's all clean
# [04:45] <gandoff> but main menu got fucke dup
# [04:45] <gandoff> ill change back to how it was and you can see, sec
# [04:45] <gandoff> http://www.jsfiddle.net/peqK5/1/
# [04:48] <gandoff> (i have to make main menu relative position so i can slide it up 8px for the green top bar. also so the larger green submenu bar will extend beyond the nav element which contains the menus)
# [04:49] <gandoff> so i have nav, then on it main menu which is positioned relatively, then submenu of main menu is floated
# [04:50] <tw2113> aha, that may help, setting a width on the li's for the first level
# [04:51] <gandoff> sec
# [04:52] <tw2113> but it does look like the 2nd level would be constrained by that width too
# [04:52] <gandoff> wtf
# [04:52] <gandoff> but why would i need to add it to main menu LI and not sub menu LI ?
# [04:52] <gandoff> which is working fine
# [04:52] <tw2113> one habit i formed was adding borders around elements, so i can see what they're covering
# [04:53] <gandoff> but dude, you asked to see the code and i showed you
# [04:54] <tw2113> i'm not an expert and would likely have to fiddle around a bit myself to get it he way you're wanting :)
# [04:54] <gandoff> so what gives?
# [04:54] <gandoff> oh
# [04:54] <gandoff> well this sucks
# [04:54] <gandoff> css seems like such a hack
# [04:54] <gandoff> im not even doing sophisticated things
# [04:55] <tw2113> some people still think css is hacky
# [04:55] <tw2113> so you're not alone with that thought
# [04:55] <gandoff> what do they do for layout? tables still?
# [04:56] <tw2113> dunno, i don't talk with them
# [04:57] <gandoff> my design is so close to working, but at the same time, it's like, so what? it still wouldn't work on probably 50% of browsers
# [04:57] <gandoff> not that i really care, but it's like, what am i fighting for?
# [04:57] <gandoff> i can do pixel perfect table layouts
# [04:57] <gandoff> i can also do them in 1/10 the time
# [04:58] <tw2113> http://www.jsfiddle.net/peqK5/11/
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# [04:59] <gandoff> margin-left: -200px;
# [04:59] <gandoff> what's that do?
# [04:59] <tw2113> sends the li's left 200px
# [04:59] <tw2113> from the origin
# [04:59] <tw2113> aka out of the container
# [05:00] <tw2113> sup carlos
# [05:00] <gandoff> well, thank you, but yea fuck css
# [05:00] <gandoff> im done trying
# [05:00] <gandoff> gave it a week
# [05:00] <gandoff> back to table layout
# [05:00] <gandoff> that'll give css more time to mature
# [05:00] <gandoff> (that's why i left web dev back in late 90s)
# [05:00] <gandoff> nice to see it's 10x more complex yet still a total hack job
# [05:01] <tw2113> *shrugs*
# [05:02] * grantg loves how the firefox devs just completely broke adobe flash in the latest nightly
# [05:02] <grantg> woo hoo
# [05:03] <gandoff> *sigh*
# [05:03] <tw2113> i have noticed some quirky nature to flash items in FF4
# [05:03] <daleharvey> remote debugging is cool, what would be more cool is remote debugging mobile webkit
# [05:03] <gandoff> such a pile of shit technology
# [05:03] <gandoff> flash was good before MM sold out to adobe
# [05:03] <tw2113> css3 is supposed to bring in methods for layout that don't involve floats and clearing elements etc
# [05:03] * gandoff curses the day
# [05:04] <grantg> youtube is broken in the latest 64 bit firefox nightly for snow leopard
# [05:04] <grantg> FTW
# [05:04] <tw2113> not the best support yet in the immediate browsers
# [05:05] <gandoff> what % of browsers support the basic table features? (TD background colors, % and finite widths mixed, etc)
# [05:06] <gandoff> (using spacer gifs for heights ;)
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# [05:06] <tw2113> *shrugs* i don't pay much attention to making table layouts in 2011
# [05:06] <gandoff> just like to fight with or be limited by CSS then?
# [05:06] <tw2113> sadly i had to do it for html email templates
# [05:06] <tw2113> nope, i just make it work with the css
# [05:07] <tw2113> but i do have a good friend who agrees with you about "fuck css"
# [05:07] <tw2113> she sends her love
# [05:11] <gandoff> girls do web dev now?
# [05:11] <gandoff> when'd that happen
# [05:12] <tw2113> while you were off bemoaning css from 1999
# [05:12] <gandoff> clearly
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# [05:18] <gandoff> bam. fully scalable pixel-perfect layout using tables done in < 15 min
# [05:18] <gandoff> and probably closer to 6 min
# [05:18] <gandoff> not bad vs a fucking week and counting with css
# [05:21] <tw2113> whatever ends up floating your boat
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# [05:24] <gandoff> don't you dare say float to me
# [05:24] <gandoff> ever
# [05:24] <gandoff> fucking css garbage
# [05:25] <tw2113> whatever flogs your log?
# [05:26] <gandoff> there we go
# [05:26] <gandoff> heh heh, you log flogger
# [05:26] <tw2113> float float float
# [05:29] <gandoff> what's a nice font for menu items?
# [05:30] <tw2113> comic sans
# [05:30] <gandoff> suck meh balls
# [05:31] <tw2113> helvetica
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# [05:37] <gandoff> any of you gusy use Acorn for graphics?
# [05:39] <tw2113> can't say i have, i stick to gimp and inkscape when i need graphics at home
# [05:39] <tw2113> photoshop when at work
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# [05:41] <boaz> im having trouble with window.webkitNotifications.requestPermission();
# [05:41] <boaz> window.webkitNotifications exists, but, window.webkitNotifications.requestPermission() seems to return undefined
# [05:41] <boaz> in
# [05:41] <boaz> anyone used this before?
# [05:45] <boaz> er, maybe returning undefined is the expected behavior, but, it's not causing the browser to request perm from me.
# [05:45] <tw2113> *shrugs* i dunno what you're trying to do :)
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# [05:48] <boaz> tw2113: use window.webkitNotifications
# [05:49] <tw2113> ?g window.webkitNotifications
# [05:49] <bot-t> tw2113, Ajaxian � Desktop Notifications with Webkit - http://ajaxian.com/archives/desktop-notifications-with-webkit
# [05:50] <tw2113> ah
# [05:50] <tw2113> gotcha
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# [06:09] <gandoff> hm this is great. when my table's border is 1, safari renders properly. when it's 0, safari right aligns the table
# [06:09] <gandoff> wtf
# [06:09] <gandoff> even CAMINO renders the page properly
# [06:12] <gandoff> mm, 4x4 spacer gifs to the rescue!
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# [06:37] <grantg> paul_irish: Look what you made me do: https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online/commit/318a840ce10e90d87391d83d0b0a84dbb1290518
# [06:37] <grantg> I reverted a revert in response to the yes. :/
# [06:37] <paul_irish> reversion ftw
# [06:38] <grantg> "Reverted a revert (I must not go derper)."
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# [06:39] <grantg> Now I use -1 to 1 of the amplitude range
# [06:39] <grantg> instead of 0 to 1
# [06:40] * danheberden is now known as danheberden|away
# [06:40] <grantg> I had used 0 to 1 previously because drop-offs were less noticeable with that range
# [06:40] <grantg> but utilizing -1 to 0 doubles the volume/ :D
# [06:41] <grantg> though this is not what real gameboy hardware does
# [06:41] <grantg> Gameboys only have a positive scale amplitude
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# [06:41] <grantg> but this doesn't matter, because computer speakers are much way better quality
# [06:42] <grantg> so the low pass attribute natural to a positive scale is unrelated even to when I was using it
# [06:42] <grantg> and computer OSes apply such a filter anyhow usually
# [06:42] <grantg> I hope. :P
# [06:43] * danheberden|away is now known as danheberden
# [06:44] * grantg notes instead of the amplitude going from 0 to 1, it now goes from -1 to 1, which means natural filter effects from speakers themselves apply differently in this case.
# [06:44] <grantg> so the sound may marginally be different if you have shitty speakers
# [06:44] <tw2113> let me know when it goes to 11 :D
# [06:44] <grantg> or your OS does weird shit
# [06:45] <grantg> tw2113: ^_^
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# [06:45] * grantg notes that for most of the time, the amplitude will actually be somewhere between -1 and 0 now
# [06:46] * grantg is throwing your computer speakers' magnets in reverse
# [06:46] <tw2113> nooooo
# [06:46] <tw2113> ok
# [06:47] <grantg> tw2113: Because each audio channel (total of 4) gets at most an amplitude of 0.5
# [06:47] <tw2113> ahh
# [06:48] <grantg> And I adjust by subtracting -1 from the running total
# [06:48] <tw2113> well then.....technically make it 10, but label it 11 :D
# [06:48] <tw2113> theoretically
# [06:48] <grantg> so it goes from 0-2 to -1-1
# [06:48] <tw2113> even if it's technically 1
# [06:48] <tw2113> yeah, i'm just being dumb, don't mind me
# [06:48] <grantg> tw2113: I don't even know why I'm discussing this here. :/
# [06:49] <grantg> paul_irish: I might into a floating point problem
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# [06:49] <tw2113> sunday night an bored?
# [06:49] <grantg> yesh
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# [06:49] <gandoff> he's trying to show off to get you in the sack
# [06:50] <grantg> gandoff: huh?
# [06:50] <grantg> Any talk like that belongs in #reddit
# [06:50] <gandoff> or #bearcave on EFnet
# [06:50] <grantg> I wonder how you know...
# [06:50] <grantg> Even I didn't know that chan existed
# [06:50] <tw2113> i have no idea who's talking aout what
# [06:51] <grantg> tw2113: good
# [06:51] <tw2113> freaking keyboard
# [06:51] <tw2113> about*
# [06:51] <grantg> #html5 != #reddit != what ever #bearcave is
# [06:53] <grantg> paul_irish: There might be a decimal point round up problem potentially causing volume for one of my audio channels to just barely get over 0.50 amplitude
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# [06:53] <grantg> and if all channels do 0.50 with the one with "a little extra from FPU round up" then I might get an amplitude like 1.00000000000000001
# [06:53] <grantg> I doubt that will mess up webkit audio
# [06:54] <grantg> Because I believe these audio apis clip any amplitude beyond -1-1
# [06:54] <grantg> so anything above 1 equals 1
# [06:54] <grantg> etc
# [06:55] <gandoff> grant, why did you switch from 0 1 to -1 1
# [06:55] <grantg> gandoff: double the maximum volume
# [06:55] <grantg> ;)
# [06:56] <gandoff> is this one of those american "bigger must be better" things?
# [06:56] <gandoff> aka eP33n
# [06:56] <grantg> So I can blast gameboy music at double the volume as from before
# [06:57] <grantg> gandoff: I think your other tab right now is youjizz and you're carrying on a conversation here while multitasking with that site. D:
# [06:57] <grantg> just a guess
# [06:57] <grantg> ...
# [06:59] <gandoff> no
# [06:59] <gandoff> gandoffsnaughtycloset.org.cn
# [06:59] <gandoff> but close
# [07:00] <grantg> heh
# [07:02] <tw2113> how's things otherwise grantg
# [07:02] <grantg> nothing much
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# [07:02] <grantg> what's going on in tw2113-ville?
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# [07:03] <grantg> I've held off some of my code projects for the time being due to massive amounts of karma-seeking on reddit. :/
# [07:03] <tw2113> thinking i should consider sleep before too long, and know we're moving offices before the end of february
# [07:03] <tw2113> so that'll be fun
# [07:03] <grantg> moving always gets you out of a rut for some time
# [07:04] <tw2113> it'll be to a more proper office too, instead of a couple rooms in an older building
# [07:04] <tw2113> right next to train tracks :\
# [07:04] <grantg> nice
# [07:05] <tw2113> the current place is next to tracks, the new place won't be :D
# [07:05] <tw2113> i can't wait, i'm anxious for it all
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# [07:16] * grantg forgot to mention a gameboy does additive channel mixing, not averaging
# [07:17] <grantg> So the voltages add up
# [07:17] <grantg> hence the 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5
# [07:17] <grantg> and no division
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# [07:21] <tw2113> time to crash for the night
# [07:21] <tw2113> cya grantg
# [07:21] <grantg> nn
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# [07:39] <grantg> nn
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# [08:08] <paul_irish> Moo-_: that's you, right? ;)
# [08:14] <paul_irish> nope. french moo and finish moo.
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# [08:21] <franksalim> Microsoft is running IE9 ads inside of Quake Live
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# [08:28] <gandoff> i'd like to see how low that ctr is :P
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# [08:33] <WRA> franks: IE9 ads everywhere
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# [08:33] <WRA> supposedly it has "Hardware accelerated canvas"
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# [08:33] <WRA> but it runs just as fast as FF
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# [08:35] <alcuadrado> are forms without action valid html5?
# [08:43] * Moo-_ doesn't know any French
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# [08:49] <gandoff> in absolute positioning, is that for the screen per se? or is there, hopefully, some way to get a handle on something more dynamic. eg, to get the left edge of my element's containing block
# [08:49] <gandoff> i was thinking, if CSS isn't currently able to gracefully handle my site design's layout, i could fall back to gangster ass absolute positioning
# [08:50] <gandoff> i spent a week trying to get the css for this design together, close, not quite. whipped up the table layout version in 20 min, pixel perfect and resizes
# [08:50] <gandoff> heh
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# [08:51] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: I might buy this, you want one too? PM me your address. http://bit.ly/hO9yUc
# [08:51] <paul_irish> sexyhot
# [08:52] <Neiluj> alcuadrado: w3's validator said yes
# [08:52] <gandoff> you KNOW that was MS PR intentionally marketing to the hoards of homosexual techies
# [08:52] <gandoff> assholes
# [08:52] <gandoff> "dragonfruit pink" i mean c'mon!
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# [08:55] <niftylettuce> ?...
# [08:55] <bot-t> event.timeStamp: This attribute returns the number of milliseconds since January 1, 1970, when the event is triggered. http://api.jquery.com/event.timeStamp/
# [08:58] <paul_irish> gandoff: css is pretty off topic for this channel, so i wouldnt expect much assistance here.
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# [09:01] <gandoff> paul_irish: the thing is, my design has actually proven to be an extremely difficult case for CSS. i'd like to suggest we tackle it as a group for the intellectual challenge if nothing else
# [09:02] <paul_irish> why do you keep changing your nick?
# [09:02] <gandoff> keep? key is my regular and gandoff is when i'm gaming
# [09:02] <gandoff> it's so my friends know when i'm in game
# [09:02] <niftylettuce> gandoff: type /topic
# [09:03] <gandoff> long story, but basically key was a restricted username back on this MUD i played long ass time ago, so i made a gaming alt
# [09:03] <gandoff> i have read it. yes?
# [09:04] <gandoff> i spent a week brushing up on html, researching html 5, and have my data structure right. remember you guys saying now just make the damn thing? that's been the past week, styling that structured data
# [09:05] <gandoff> i've stumped a couple of friends who are CSS professionals and tried to help me build it
# [09:05] <gandoff> so i figured i'd throw it to the only other bad asses i know
# [09:05] <Neiluj> gandoff: your case is not an extremely diffcult one, I solved it
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# [09:08] <franksalim> WRA: yeah. I was amused to see that during my video game time.
# [09:08] <danbeam> paul_irish: I lol'ed at the dragonfruit pink
# [09:08] <paul_irish> :) forreal
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# [09:36] <WRA> @fank: yeah I just wish they got a better JavaScript engine as their HW accelerated canvas rendering is just as fast as FF software render ;)
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# [11:16] <mokush> anybody worked with javascriptmvc?
# [11:16] <Neiluj> nope currently coding with backbone
# [11:17] <mokush> man these build scripts are driving me nuts, I'm considering becoming a baker
# [11:21] <Neiluj> code generators ?
# [11:26] <jetienne> any advice on a common js require() implementation in browser ?
# [11:26] <WRA> hmm, what are some of the benefits of using JavaScriptMVC
# [11:27] <mokush> Neiluj: no, these production build systems, like the requirejs build script, or the javascriptmvc build script.
# [11:27] <mokush> WRA: well I just wanted the build script and the dependency manager
# [11:27] <mokush> and they just hate me
# [11:29] <WRA> the build script is nice
# [11:31] <mokush> WRA: well, it doesn't bloody work with the templates
# [11:31] <WRA> hah
# [11:31] <mokush> or I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure out what
# [11:32] <WRA> know any JavaScript compilers (rofl) I have a HUGE project and I want to "compile" it into one file and maintain the classes in their own
# [11:32] <WRA> just to maintain my sanity
# [11:33] <WRA> I think I'm at 2,000+ lines of code
# [11:34] <mokush> WRA: well mvc's script does this pretty good.
# [11:34] <mokush> it's just the template embeding that doesn't seem to work.
# [11:34] <WRA> I may just make a NodeJS server that auto minimizes/compiles from a directory
# [11:34] <Neiluj> WRA: what about closure compiler ?
# [11:35] <Neiluj> or uglifier ?
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# [11:37] <WRA> will it take multiple files and compile them together?
# [11:45] <gandoff> is it possible to center text if you make an A a block and set a large width?
# [11:47] <WRA> text-align center yo
# [11:47] <WRA> would be cleaner to wrap it in a div tho
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# [11:47] <gandoff> wrap the A?
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# [11:52] <gandoff> WRA: thanks bro that worked
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# [11:57] <gandoff> what mark up do you guys suggest for the copyright/legal notice in the footer?
# [11:57] <gandoff> naturally smaller, but i'm sure there's some kind of semantic tag specific for it now :P
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# [12:04] <Evet__> adobe going to add "export as html5" feature to flash \o/
# [12:04] <gandoff> really?
# [12:04] <Evet__> yep
# [12:05] <gandoff> url?
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# [12:05] <gandoff> btw, wra, my vertical-align: bottom isn't working. know why?
# [12:05] <Evet__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v69S22ZBBqA
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# [12:08] <gandoff> cool
# [12:08] <gandoff> http://htmlhelp.com/reference/css/text/vertical-align.html
# [12:08] <gandoff> that says it only works on inline elements
# [12:08] <gandoff> but what about this A that i stylized to be 'box size'
# [12:08] <gandoff> much larger than myt ext, like a button
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# [12:15] <Neiluj> Evet__: it's not really a flash to html5 export, it's more like a vector to <canvas> export
# [12:19] <Neiluj> Evet__: I mean it does Flash animation conversion but I don't think it will do more, could be great if it will but I have no hope
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# [12:21] <Evet__> Neiluj: how much do you pay for a flash to html5 conversion (everything, even webgl too) software?
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# [12:26] <gandoff> what should you mark up copyright text with?
# [12:26] <gandoff> for the footer
# [12:27] <benschwarz> <small> is good
# [12:28] <benschwarz> small isn't as in size, its as in its of little relevence to the content
# [12:29] <benschwarz> @gandoff
# [12:29] <gandoff> oh
# [12:29] <gandoff> ok, thanks!
# [12:32] <gandoff> what if you have 2 lines of small test? 1 for copyright, 2nd for basic string of links/sitemap. how do i get the line break in there?
# [12:32] <gandoff> @benschwarz
# [12:32] <benschwarz> p br? up to you
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# [12:33] <gandoff> isn't <BR> bad to use now?
# [12:34] <benschwarz> not when you use it as its intended
# [12:34] <gandoff> which is how?
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# [12:37] <gandoff> is there any css to space inline elements from each other? i have some LIs inline
# [12:38] <gandoff> i want a gap between them and i don't wanna use border-right
# [12:39] <benschwarz> gandoff margin-right
# [12:40] <gandoff> benschwarz: ah that will work, thank you. yet, isn't there some kind of "spacing" property on UL's?
# [12:40] <benschwarz> also http://developers.whatwg.org/text-level-semantics.html#the-br-element
# [12:40] <gandoff> *reading*
# [12:40] <gandoff> excellent doc, thank you!
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# [12:44] <gandoff> back
# [12:44] <gandoff> member:benschwarz: ah that will work, thank you. yet, isn't there some kind of "spacing" property on UL's?
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# [14:10] <Neiluj> any compass user here ?
# [14:10] <nimbupani> yep
# [14:11] <Neiluj> hey nimbupani :) do you know why compass isn't vendor-prefixing my css3 properties like sass does normally ?
# [14:11] <nimbupani> u didnt use css3 mixin?
# [14:11] <nimbupani> ?paste
# [14:11] <bot-t> Please paste your code at http://jsfiddle.net/ . If that is down then you may use: http://paste.pocoo.org/+js , or http://fixee.org/
# [14:11] <Neiluj> no didn't use the css3 mixins since I knew sass would care about them
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# [14:12] <jquerier> hello it seems like css3 is supported by the most browsers and HTML5 not am i right?
# [14:12] <nimbupani> what do u mean sass would care about them?
# [14:13] <Neiluj> jquerier: HTML5 is a lot of features actually, some browsers support some features
# [14:13] <Neiluj> nimbupani: it does vendors prefixing by default, am I right ?
# [14:13] <nimbupani> not that i know of!
# [14:13] <daleharvey> http://caniuse.com
# [14:14] <Neiluj> nimbupani: oh! I thought it was... but I had a non-common use of sass :D
# [14:14] <nimbupani> wat
# [14:14] <Neiluj> nimbupani: (don't tell : a PHP port...)
# [14:14] <nimbupani> ugh
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# [14:15] <Neiluj> yeah yeah, just to see if I can do it on server, I couldn't install ruby
# [14:15] <Neiluj> now I'm working on local where I have ruby and just tested compass, not sass alone
# [14:16] <Neiluj> mixins are great but would have been greater if prefixing have been automatic :(
# [14:19] <Neiluj> nimbupani: no mixin about appearance property ?
# [14:20] <nimbupani> but how else can u prefix?
# [14:20] <nimbupani> automatically how?
# [14:20] <Neiluj> just like normal css writing ? border-radius: 5px;
# [14:21] <nimbupani> but that wont work.
# [14:21] <Neiluj> PHamlP is doing this
# [14:21] <Neiluj> no it doesnt
# [14:21] <nimbupani> well then u should use PHamIP
# [14:21] <nimbupani> :)
# [14:21] <Neiluj> that's why I'm asking ;)
# [14:21] <nimbupani> its not a usecase for Sass
# [14:21] <Neiluj> nah don't like it :)
# [14:21] <Neiluj> yeah, it gets me wrong
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# [14:45] <Neiluj> nimbupani: I forked compass and added the appearance mixin, I'm not a rubyist but do you know how could I build "my" compass to test ?
# [14:46] <nimbupani> me neither Neiluj
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# [14:46] <Neiluj> ok, I'll wait for chriseppstein ;)
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# [15:34] <Peter`> psh mike5w3c. I bet you tweeted that with @w3c
# [15:34] <Peter`> about ten seconds before I tweeted :)
# [15:35] <mike5w3c> I had one of secretaries tweet that
# [15:36] <mike5w3c> i am too busy tweeting about this wacky snow here in tokyo tonight
# [15:36] <Peter`> sounds like it's quite bad
# [15:36] <Peter`> ?weather Tokyo
# [15:36] <bot-t> Peter`, Tokyo - Time: 23:33 Monday (JST), Weather: Rain, 2�C / 36�F
# [15:37] <mike5w3c> walking in my neighborhood, I see some jackass taking a corner in the snow in one of these three-wheeled scooter things we have here
# [15:37] <mike5w3c> and dude lays it down
# [15:37] <mike5w3c> which normally wouldn't be funny
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# [15:37] <mike5w3c> if he got hurt
# [15:37] <mike5w3c> but he didn't
# [15:37] <Peter`> hah
# [15:38] <mike5w3c> because he actually was going really slow
# [15:39] <mike5w3c> but what was REALLY funny was, right after dude gets back on, he hits the throttle and right away does it AGAIN
# [15:39] <mike5w3c> except this time backwards
# [15:39] <mike5w3c> or, I mean he spun the whole bike around
# [15:39] <mike5w3c> so by this time I'm doing bellylaughs
# [15:39] <mike5w3c> tears coming down my eyes
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# [15:39] <mike5w3c> because this like a comedy show
# [15:39] <mike5w3c> for free
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# [16:25] <Benvie> soooooo
# [16:26] <Benvie> how many h1's per page?
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# [16:26] <Benvie> 1 or n
# [16:31] <tw2113> well since articles and whatnot can now have them....
# [16:31] <tw2113> however, i think it's intended that at the root level of the page structure, only 1 h1
# [16:31] <Benvie> excellent, makes sense
# [16:31] <Benvie> the only discussion I saw in favor of using more was on multi-article pages
# [16:33] <cgcardona> but more than 1 validates
# [16:33] <Benvie> yeah just talking on a semantic level
# [16:33] <tw2113> structure matters
# [16:33] <cgcardona> how many h1s depends on the situation
# [16:35] <tw2113> reasons to not look at twitter today: vday gushing
# [16:36] <cgcardona> haha
# [16:36] <BrianBlakely> Benvie: h1 count definitely depends on the structure. HTML5 allows infinite h1s
# [16:37] <BrianBlakely> This may clash with search spiders, it may not
# [16:37] <Benvie> initially discussions i saw a year or two back had people citing Google that there should only ever be a single h1 on a page
# [16:37] <Benvie> but then the more recent discussions were one per article
# [16:37] <Benvie> no idea what Google thinks currently
# [16:37] <tw2113> google is always going to adapt their searching
# [16:37] <BrianBlakely> Benvie: That's not entirely true. Google just wants to see a focused topic
# [16:38] <tw2113> i've seen quotes stating that they're going to see how people use the new tags and go based on that for adding meaning to them in their results
# [16:38] <BrianBlakely> If your article's h1 is "Food", and another few h1s "Apples", "Steak", "Celery", Google will know this is a post about various food products
# [16:38] <tw2113> meaning, if we don't use those tags, their adaption will be slower
# [16:38] <BrianBlakely> Then, of course, cross-linking plays into the equation
# [16:39] <BrianBlakely> If you do the "right" thing, and have good content, you will be ranked well
# [16:39] <BrianBlakely> Trust the system
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# [16:44] <ruben-> I've got a div that's draggable, with 2 divs in it - is it possible to disable dragging when the second div is clicked?
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# [16:50] <BrianBlakely> ruben-: You can remove the event handler on the draggable element when the 2nd div is clicked
# [16:50] <ruben-> Tought of that workaround, but there is no native function to allow it to me?
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# [16:52] <BrianBlakely> Hmm, not that I'm aware
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# [16:53] <BrianBlakely> You might be able to leverage e.target in the dragging events
# [16:54] <BrianBlakely> ruben-: Did you try this?
# [16:54] <BrianBlakely> See if e.target within the dragging event matches the 2nd div, and then prevent the dragging from executing if that is the case
# [16:54] <BrianBlakely> Could work
# [16:55] <ruben-> target is the main div
# [16:55] <ruben-> the container
# [16:55] <ruben-> is there something like e.originalEvent or something?
# [16:55] <ruben-> Because I think it's just cascaded to the container..
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# [17:09] <BrianBlakely> ruben: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/event.type
# [17:09] <BrianBlakely> ruben-
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# [17:16] <ruben-> hmz
# [17:16] <ruben-> dragstart isn't even called from my second div..
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# [17:48] <BrianBlakely> Did anyone download the Spoon IEs while they were up on iecss.com?
# [17:48] <BrianBlakely> I was foolish enough to wait out the weekend
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# [17:53] <nimbupani> ?tell antonkovalyov pinggg i wanna ask about RTL stuff :|
# [17:53] <bot-t> nimbupani, Okay.
# [17:57] <miketaylr> BrianBlakely: pm
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# [18:04] <tw2113> interesting, "Belfast, Ireland" returns multiple lat/long coordinates while Belfast, UK returns 1
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# [18:25] <ruben-> Is there a way with dragging to not make the "shadow" apear?
# [18:25] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely:
# [18:25] <paul_irish> http://twitter.com/#!/spoonapps/status/36526822585929728
# [18:25] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fGtZMg @spoonapps: The browsers at iecss are *not legal*. Pls do not use. Team has been working very hard on a sol'n. Pls respect and be patient a bit longer.
# [18:25] <paul_irish> http://twitter.com/#!/spoonapps/status/36532065243643904
# [18:25] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fvxLqL @spoonapps: @palleman iecss.com is *not* affiliated in any way with Spoon, and their use of Spoon tech is not legal.
# [18:25] <ruben-> I want to move my div I'm dragging realtime (so with ondrag), but the shadow keeps on showing..
# [18:27] <paul_irish> some guy made this
# [18:27] <paul_irish> feed reader (html5 offline capable) http://www.purplegene.com/reader
# [18:27] <paul_irish> it's pretty noice
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# [18:33] <Brodingo> aw she aint here :(
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# [18:35] <nimbupani> here
# [18:36] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely:
# [18:36] <paul_irish> Brodingo: rather
# [18:36] <Brodingo> oh i was curious about inspecting pseudo elements
# [18:37] <Brodingo> i thought at least if you were inspecting an element their :after rules would be there
# [18:37] <nimbupani> in which tool Brodingo
# [18:37] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Heya Paul
# [18:37] <Brodingo> right now im using safari
# [18:37] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Misfire mention?
# [18:37] <Brodingo> does it work in other inspectors ?
# [18:38] <nimbupani> i think only Opera as far as I can tell
# [18:38] <nimbupani> firebug still doesnt that i know for sure
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# [18:38] <nimbupani> i mean dragonfly
# [18:38] <Brodingo> right
# [18:38] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Ah, the tweet. Yes, I saw that. I'm concurrently trying out the Utilu suite you mentioned
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# [18:40] <paul_irish> cool. they're aiight but were a littttle more buggy
# [18:40] <nimbupani> but webkit tools does show
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# [18:40] <nimbupani> whats that u wish to know?
# [18:40] <JSK_> I want to view my IndexedDB like I can my WebSQL lol.
# [18:40] <JSK_> Console.Log is amazing but not good enough :P
# [18:41] <Brodingo> oh dangit theyre at the bottom :|
# [18:41] <Brodingo> my dumb
# [18:41] <nimbupani> yeah
# [18:41] <Brodingo> ty nimbu
# [18:41] <nimbupani> my pleasure Brodingo
# [18:42] <BrianBlakely> Getting IE6 working perfectly in Win7x64 seems impossible (Utilu's IE6 is unusable), so hopefully Spoon has something up their sleeves
# [18:43] <paul_irish> hope so
# [18:43] <paul_irish> they said somethigna bot march 4th
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# [18:52] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: yo i heard disqus sucks with RTL
# [18:52] <antonkovalyov> that would be true
# [18:52] <bot-t> (59 mins 30 secs ago) <nimbupani> tell antonkovalyov pinggg i wanna ask about RTL stuff :|
# [18:52] <paul_irish> lol
# [18:52] <nimbupani> :)
# [18:53] <antonkovalyov> we didn't have too many requests about rtl to dedicate any good amount of time on the support
# [18:53] <antonkovalyov> why? who needs it?
# [18:53] <nimbupani> its terrible antonkovalyov
# [18:53] <nimbupani> WE
# [18:53] <nimbupani> html5boilerplate!
# [18:53] <paul_irish> http://he.html5boilerplate.com
# [18:53] <nimbupani> i had to put dir=rtl on the div
# [18:53] <nimbupani> coz if i put it on the body or html
# [18:53] <nimbupani> the invisible iframe starts scrolling
# [18:54] <nimbupani> coz it uses pos: abs and left: -20000
# [18:54] <nimbupani> which upsets rtl (should use right: −20000 for rtl)
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# [18:54] <antonkovalyov> oh
# [18:54] <antonkovalyov> hm
# [18:54] <antonkovalyov> that would be easyxdm
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# [18:55] <nimbupani> okay :|
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# [18:55] <antonkovalyov> interesting
# [18:55] <paul_irish> blame the norwegian!
# [18:55] <nimbupani> buttttt can it be fixed?||
# [18:55] <nimbupani> hahaha
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# [18:55] <antonkovalyov> eh, i'll spend some time this week on that :-)
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# [18:56] <nimbupani> THNXXXXX antonkovalyov
# [18:56] <nimbupani> thats like min
# [18:56] <nimbupani> then we need rtf in comments also >_>
# [18:56] <antonkovalyov> btw can somebody do the display: box thingy on jshint/site?
# [18:56] <antonkovalyov> i completely inept at understanding css
# [18:56] <nimbupani> ORLY
# [18:56] <nimbupani> u mean u dont give a damn
# [18:57] <antonkovalyov> everytime i write some css, i start kicking my monitor
# [18:57] <antonkovalyov> dunno why
# [18:57] <paul_irish> nimbupani can u flexbox that shit
# [18:57] <antonkovalyov> basically, i did that display: box and everything else from the tutorial
# [18:58] <nimbupani> ok ok ok
# [18:58] <antonkovalyov> and my divs dissapeared :)
# [18:58] <paul_irish> did you use the prefixes?
# [18:58] <antonkovalyov> i said fuck it and went snowboarding
# [18:58] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, ya
# [18:58] <paul_irish> snowboardinggggg \o/
# [18:58] <paul_irish> do you have goggle sunburn?
# [18:58] <BrianBlakely> I'm going skiing for the first time this weekend. Fear.. >_>
# [18:58] <antonkovalyov> nah, i used sun screen
# [18:59] <antonkovalyov> BrianBlakely, that was my first day of skiing and snowboarding
# [18:59] <antonkovalyov> snowboarding is so much more fun
# [18:59] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, and also i am not whitey so i dont get sunburned that easily :)
# [19:00] <paul_irish> hahaha good move.
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# [19:00] <nimbupani> WHITEY
# [19:00] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: i've only went skiing once. i was... okay.. not tremendously great.
# [19:01] <JSK_> Let's not blame the Norwegians. They're cool.
# [19:01] <JSK_> For shame paul_irish
# [19:01] <JSK_> :P
# [19:02] <paul_irish> i ♥ .no
# [19:02] <antonkovalyov> we should all do snowboarding
# [19:02] <antonkovalyov> and it looks much cooler
# [19:04] <BrianBlakely> I did go snowboarding once… mostly with my nose, rather than the board
# [19:04] <nimbupani> hahahahah BrianBlakely
# [19:04] <BrianBlakely> t'was a good time, but I think I'll definitely be taking lessons before hitting the slopes this weekend
# [19:05] <antonkovalyov> BrianBlakely, haha
# [19:05] <BrianBlakely> antonkovalyov: Sounds like you fared better, that's great
# [19:05] <antonkovalyov> i got a lesson and it was so awesome, i upgraded the ticket to two more lessons — level 2 and 3
# [19:05] <BrianBlakely> Smart!
# [19:06] <antonkovalyov> the deal is awesome, $35 for 2.5h lesson, gear rent and lift ticket
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# [19:06] <JSK_> I'm not Norwegian so I dont actually care that much. :P
# [19:07] <JSK_> But I am of German descent.
# [19:07] <JSK_> lol
# [19:07] <JSK_> I drink like one on occasion.
# [19:08] <BrianBlakely> antonkovalyov: That is a great deal
# [19:08] <BrianBlakely> http://wp.arcticstartup.com/2010/12/08/rocket-pack-launches-html5-cross-platform-social-game-warimals-in-alpha/
# [19:08] <BrianBlakely> First HTML5 Facebook game
# [19:09] <BrianBlakely> It's awesome that the game's homepage doesn't work in Chr9
# [19:09] <JSK_> Anyone happen to know where the github/svn/whatever for Chrome's indexeddb is?
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# [19:10] <JSK_> Lookin for the testcases.
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# [19:11] <BrianBlakely> JSK_: http://codesearch.google.com/codesearch?as_q=indexeddb&btnG=Search+Code&hl=en&vert=chromium&filesuggest=&as_lang=&as_filename=&as_class=&as_function=&;as_case=
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# [19:12] <JSK_> Now why couldn't I find that. I kept getting .tw spam sites that were pissing off my corp proxy.
# [19:12] <JSK_> lol
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# [19:17] <paul_irish> oh my this is so fantastic http://laserey.es/
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# [19:18] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: This is the kind of thing that skuh-reams for <device>
# [19:18] <JSK_> That is pretty cool paul_irish
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# [19:21] <nimbupani> sooon BrianBlakely
# [19:22] <BrianBlakely> I wait patiently but eagerly nimbupani
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# [19:32] <BrianBlakely> Want to get my augmented reality on. And Minority Report interfaces.
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# [20:01] * JSK_ gets angry at IndexedDB again.
# [20:03] <paul_irish> IE9 will be available for Windows Phone 7 in the second half of 2011, offering "a dramatically enhanced mobile Web browser experience." \o/
# [20:05] <jetienne_> BrianBlakely: do you have a ref on the fact that warimals is the first
# [20:07] <antonkovalyov> yo paul_irish is there video/slides of your jsbbq talk? did you talk about something i might not know about devtools?
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# [20:10] <niftylettuce> \o/
# [20:11] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: yeah definitely captured a lot of new shit
# [20:11] <paul_irish> i'm getting a video of it tonight
# [20:11] <paul_irish> but will probably rerecord anyway
# [20:11] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: I started working on https://github.com/paulirish/lazyweb-requests/issues#issue/23
# [20:11] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, SHIT, i want it now
# [20:11] <antonkovalyov> i want to know everything
# [20:11] <paul_irish> niftylettuce: hot shit
# [20:11] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: shoulda come.
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# [20:12] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, was in tahoe
# [20:12] <niftylettuce> it sucks for people like me living in PA...
# [20:12] <miketaylr> niftylettuce: we're probably gonna do an event in Philly this spring
# [20:12] <paul_irish> \o/
# [20:12] <miketaylr> s/we're/Opera/
# [20:12] <niftylettuce> slick thats like 3 hrs away
# [20:13] <niftylettuce> lmk
# [20:13] <miketaylr> should be cool, open web stuff :)
# [20:13] <niftylettuce> opera?
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# [20:13] <miketaylr> yep
# [20:14] <miketaylr> i think it's still being planned tho, hopefully have some more details soon
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# [20:18] <niftylettuce> anyone recommend good mice/mouse for non-Mac?
# [20:18] <niftylettuce> *nix based
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# [20:20] <BrianBlakely> ?tell jetienne_ Only their own claim that it is, indeed, the first. And the fact that Facebook only recently reached out to say "Hey, start making HTML5 games!"
# [20:20] <bot-t> BrianBlakely, Okay.
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# [20:22] <BrianBlakely> NYC Folk: Doing a talk at TheLadders for Refresh NYC on March 2nd: http://www.meetup.com/refreshnyc/events/16247095/
# [20:23] <BrianBlakely> Please attend and provide pointed questions/scathing corrections
# [20:24] <Moo-_> http://gobarbra.com/hit/new-212fb25b7c8c9732bee73f8a543382c7
# [20:24] <BrianBlakely> Seems like it'll be a good crowd, these talks are usually productive
# [20:27] <paul_irish> bot-t: tell grantg https://github.com/jussi-kalliokoski/audiolib.js heads up b
# [20:27] <bot-t> paul_irish, Okay.
# [20:28] <niftylettuce> bot-t: tell niftylettuce to work harder, smarter, faster
# [20:28] <bot-t> niftylettuce, Okay.
# [20:28] <danbeam> lol
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# [20:35] <daleharvey> heh few quick updates to pastebin.me - http://pastebin.me/e17057134b134eefcf58f464ad03a6e4
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# [20:51] <BrianBlakely> Anyone have some favorite Chrome Experiments or HTML5 demos that aren't related to Canvas or games?
# [20:51] <BrianBlakely> Putting together an inspiration piece for the company
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# [20:52] <Peter`> With the danger of promoting the Web Audio API to be part of HTML5: http://chromium.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/audio/index.html
# [20:52] <Peter`> together with WebGL that is, in my opinion, one of the more exciting changes
# [20:53] <daleharvey> BrianBlakely: http://slides.html5rocks.com/#landing-slide has the kitchen sink in there
# [20:53] <BrianBlakely> Peter`: This is on my list already. I agree, it's huge :)
# [20:54] <BrianBlakely> daleharvey: Thanks, this will be helpful when I can't find less theoretical demos for certain things.
# [20:56] <BrianBlakely> The focus of the piece is — in a sentence — "HTML5 allows us to turn away from magazine-driven design through data-driven interaction"
# [20:56] <BrianBlakely> I added http://laserey.es/ in there earlier today
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# [21:02] <BrianBlakely> http://newyork.interhoods.org/ is a nice example of data-driven and software-like design
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# [21:12] <BrianBlakely> http://www.monocubed.com/2010/10/29/make3d-native-drag-drop-in-browser/
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# [21:13] <BrianBlakely> This fellow's demos are really terrific when it comes to using modern tech in convincingly innovative ways
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# [21:19] <JSK_> I wish there was a way to view DB contents in Firebug or Chrome Dev Tools on IndexedDB.
# [21:21] <jetienne_> es5 shim work in server side too ? in nodejs for example ?
# [21:21] <bot-t> (1 hour 1 min 10 secs ago) <BrianBlakely> tell jetienne_ Only their own claim that it is, indeed, the first. And the fact that Facebook only recently reached out to say "Hey, start making HTML5 games!"
# [21:21] <jetienne_> ?
# [21:22] <BrianBlakely> Oh, you asked "How do you know it's the first HTML5 Facebook game?" but you bailed before I could respond
# [21:22] <jetienne_> BrianBlakely: ah ok
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# [21:57] <tw2113> yay! it's monday
# [22:00] <masondesu> hooray
# [22:01] <masondesu> is anybody experiencing weirdness in the latest Chrome update? I feel like images just "don't load" sometimes, and then refuse to load when I refresh. Shift + Cmd + R is the only cure...
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# [22:03] <jetienne_> masondesu: got some of that today ye
# [22:04] <masondesu> jetienne_: I thought it was just my machine, but I'm seeing on separate machine... fresh install of Snow Leopard and latest Chrome. weird!
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# [22:11] <BrianBlakely> masondesu: Was checking out an Engadget gallery last night, I was having something like this, but I assumed it was their implementation. The image loaded the first time, but subsequent visits required a hard refresh
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# [22:12] <masondesu> brianblakely: I tried to replicate on some sites in FF and couldn't do it... I guess it must be Chome. hmm...
# [22:12] <jetienne_> 3 distinct personns at the same date... not a random thing
# [22:13] <BrianBlakely> Were you guys also receive mysterious visitors a couple hours before?
# [22:14] <BrianBlakely> M…Maybe that was just me >_>
# [22:14] <masondesu> Yes, a man in a black suit with a Ukranian accent came to my door and demanded that I hand over some ancient statue... I told him go to hell, I don't have you statue
# [22:15] <masondesu> I got beat up... and Chrome is still doing that weird image thing
# [22:18] <jetienne_> masondesu: fill a bug ? http://new.crbug.com ?
# [22:18] <masondesu> getienne_: good idea
# [22:21] <masondesu> looks like the ticket is already open http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=68622
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# [22:24] <paul_irish> weird shit
# [22:27] <paul_irish> added something to it, masondesu
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# [22:29] <masondesu> paul_irish: interesting... is ctr+shift+R the windows equivalent of Cmd + Shift + R, or was he talking about in os x?
# [22:29] <paul_irish> the first.
# [22:30] <masondesu> gotcha.
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# [22:32] <grantg> paul_irish: The JITs V8 and JSC still are deoptimizing my memory maps
# [22:32] <bot-t> (2 hours 4 mins 30 secs ago) <paul_irish> tell grantg https://github.com/jussi-kalliokoski/audiolib.js heads up b
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# [22:32] <grantg> https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online/commit/f7861b83b560ba9fa106ba778d66947193d953c3
# [22:32] <grantg> Was not good enough. :/
# [22:32] <grantg> V8 still plays stupid there
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# [22:34] <grantg> paul_irish: When the JITs fail to JIT my stuff correctly, V8 and JSC slow down 3x
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# [22:35] <grantg> instead of v8 coming in around 40% CPU usage, it goes full retard and takes 105% CPU (one core, plus "a little more")
# [22:35] <paul_irish> :(
# [22:35] <grantg> And *I KNOW* V8 can do it fullspeed when it JITs well
# [22:36] <grantg> it seems setting values through the pointer to the target array gets deoptimized in V8
# [22:36] <grantg> and JSC
# [22:36] <grantg> So my latest patch didn't speed up anything
# [22:37] <grantg> of course somehow firefox's jaegermonkey is a little smarter and JITs perfectly
# [22:37] <grantg> a slower JIT than V8, but it doesn't choke up on retarded shit like this.
# [22:37] <JSK_> Meh. I just give up on Chrome IndexedDB for now.
# [22:38] <JSK_> The things worked in Firefox Beta 11 since this morning.
# [22:38] <grantg> JSK_: I'm talking about creating and storing functions inside a 1d array
# [22:39] <grantg> so that I can basically do memory[address] to execute memory handling for my project
# [22:39] <JSK_> grantg: yeah, I wasn't commenting on that. Just expressing hatred for IDB
# [22:39] <JSK_> :P
# [22:39] <grantg> You use indexedDB?
# [22:40] <JSK_> grantg: yep, internal demos for HTML5.
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# [22:40] * grantg does storage like a boss and JSONs my data and stores it inside window.localStorage
# [22:40] <JSK_> I've done the standard if webkitIndexedDB in window crap.
# [22:40] <JSK_> Chrome just isn't playing nice with my IDB demo.
# [22:41] <grantg> I don't know why I hate DB stuff
# [22:41] <grantg> Maybe b/c I ran into WTF issues with mysql in PHP
# [22:41] <JSK_> Most of HTML5 folks seem to prefer IndexedDB rather than WebSQL. I preferred the latter.
# [22:42] <JSK_> Doesn't matter anyway, IndexedDB is winner.
# [22:43] <JSK_> :P
# [22:43] <JSK_> I say we blame paul_irish since he blamed the Norwegians.
# [22:43] <paul_irish> sounds fair
# [22:43] * grantg thinks if the custom memory functions are set directly, then the pointer referral method to an array of funcs won't JIT horribly in V8
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# [22:44] <grantg> paul_irish: My LCD controller handling is done as funcs in an array and V8 and JSC JIT that well
# [22:44] <JSK_> paul_irish: http://pastebin.com/GMWWjgPf am i missing some new reassignment webkit needs?
# [22:44] <grantg> So I'll try to make my RAM emulation closer to that.
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# [22:46] <grantg> and it's where there's a pointer variable used to either point to the handling funcs in an array, or to a blank func
# [22:46] <grantg> but that works, so I'm gonna try to pre-compile the memory funcs in an array differently
# [22:48] <grantg> JSK_: Make sure that the standard property access for indexedDB wasn't just added
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# [22:49] <grantg> B/C if the normal ones and webkit ones exist at the same time, there could be trouble
# [22:49] <grantg> I doubt it though
# [22:49] <JSK_> I watched them get assigned in the DOM.
# [22:49] <JSK_> And there's no errors regarding undefined methods
# [22:50] <JSK_> it seems to query just return undefined in chrome
# [22:50] <grantg> Maybe the API simply got messed up
# [22:50] <grantg> like it's getting garbage collected like webkit's web audio in the latest chrome dev builds
# [22:51] <grantg> where it works for a few milliseconds, but screws up shortly after
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# [22:51] <JSK_> maybe
# [22:51] <grantg> http://www.grantgalitz.org/gameboy/ plays native audio in chrome for a few seconds, but mysteriously stops thereafter
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# [22:52] <grantg> seems that web audio in chrome gets GC'd and the event handler gets unregistered by the GC
# [22:55] <grantg> paul_irish: I added a one-liner that hacks around the GC bug
# [22:55] <grantg> audioNode.onaudioprocess = audioOutputEvent;
# [22:55] <paul_irish> boom
# [22:55] <paul_irish> works around the jitting bug?
# [22:55] <grantg> So the event handler gets reassigned every time the audio plays
# [22:55] <paul_irish> no diff bug
# [22:55] <grantg> paul_irish: web audio bug is what I'm talking about
# [22:56] <grantg> for that one-liner
# [22:56] <paul_irish> k
# [22:56] <grantg> where the audio stops playing
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# [22:56] <grantg> oh wait
# [22:56] <grantg> never mind
# [22:57] <grantg> chrome still fricken GC'd my event handler for audio processing thru the audio javascript node
# [22:57] <grantg> :/
# [22:58] <antonkovalyov> does anybody have a link to the article about using // as a protocol to pick up whatever the host page uses (http or https)?
# [22:58] <antonkovalyov> can't find it :(
# [22:59] * grantg hears chrome's GC though trying to remove the event every so often thru clicks and pops
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# [23:00] <Peter`> antonkovalyov: http://mathiasbynens.be/notes/async-analytics-snippet
# [23:00] <Peter`> there's a bit under the "Use the protocol check only when it�s needed" heading
# [23:00] <antonkovalyov> thanks Peter`!
# [23:01] <grantg> V8: Y U GC something that's not garbage?
# [23:02] <grantg> paul_irish: What's necessary to tell the GC not to garbage collect something in V8?
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# [23:03] <grantg> 2+ weeks
# [23:03] <grantg> paul_irish: web audio now has been broken ever since it landed into chrome
# [23:04] <grantg> http://build.chromium.org/f/chromium/snapshots/Mac/74850/ is broken
# [23:04] <grantg> :/
# [23:06] <grantg> gtg
# [23:06] <Peter`> ...
# [23:06] <BrianBlakely> This reads like a Fox News article
# [23:06] <BrianBlakely> http://blog.millermedeiros.com/2011/01/ipad-is-the-new-ie6/
# [23:06] <Peter`> it's only enabled on Mac
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# [23:06] <Peter`> you have to enable the feature manually
# [23:06] <Peter`> the page screams that it's experimental
# [23:06] <Peter`> and still it isn't obvious
# [23:06] * Peter` shrugs
# [23:06] <BrianBlakely> Peter`: That's because it screams it using the web audio API
# [23:07] <BrianBlakely> So nobody can hear it >_>
# [23:07] <Peter`> Chrome would scare the heck out of me if it'd suddenly start giving vocal warnings about spontaneously combusting
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# [23:19] <JSK_> I totally agree on the iPad. Or anything Apple really.
# [23:19] <JSK_> They're worse than Microsoft in many ways when it comes to support.
# [23:20] <JSK_> And Safari on Windows doesnt have the 3D stuff.
# [23:20] <JSK_> And is generally a worse experience with HTML5 (in my experience).
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# [23:28] <Evet> html5 could be done 13 years ago
# [23:28] <JSK_> Yeah, HTML5 is mostly a cleanup of XHTML in many ways.
# [23:29] <JSK_> The browser engines were ignoring most of the crap in tags.
# [23:31] <Evet> i just dont understand why browser developers are anal retentive about new features
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# [23:33] <daleharvey> because we went through this all 8 years ago probably
# [23:34] <daleharvey> yay, new blog post - http://arandomurl.com/2011/02/13/developing-with-couchdb-on-android.html
# [23:35] <Evet> it means erlang on android!?
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# [23:38] <JSK_> daleharvey: that's awesome.
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# [23:40] <daleharvey> it is :) its not quite as cool as it can get yet but still pretty awesome
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# [23:45] <JSK_> Alright off I go.
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# Session Close: Tue Feb 15 00:00:00 2011

The end :)