/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-02-15 / end

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1. # Session Start: Tue Feb 15 00:00:00 2011
2. # Session Ident: #html5
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8. # [00:14] <gandoff> is there a spacing property on UL's to separate list items horizontally? margin-right works but there's always that dangling right margin hanging off of the end. would rather there be a spacing thing, like cellspacing property on tables
9. # [00:16] <daleharvey> cellspacing is equivalent to padding
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11. # [00:21] <antonkovalyov> ?tell nimbupani committed rtl fix (left v right), should be out today/tomorrow
12. # [00:21] <bot-t> antonkovalyov, Okay.
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85. # [03:05] <grantg> paul_irish: An update on the state of my project: http://i.imgur.com/zYTmX.png
86. # [03:05] <grantg> heh
87. # [03:05] <grantg> too much nostalgia
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90. # [03:18] <paul_irish> hot
91. # [03:19] <grantg> My last commit's message is dissing google chrome and safari's JIT: https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online/commit/f7861b83b560ba9fa106ba778d66947193d953c3
92. # [03:19] * grantg is not pleased.
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97. # [03:40] <mike5w3c> venting in commit messages is a hallowed tradition
98. # [03:41] <mike5w3c> code comments too
99. # [03:41] <mike5w3c> that stuff is fun to read
100. # [03:41] <mike5w3c> though you have the "I share your pain" feeling
101. # [03:41] <mike5w3c> cathartic
102. # [03:42] <grantg> heh
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104. # [03:43] <grantg> oh shiz
105. # [03:44] <grantg> paul_irish: I might use the upcoming webcam API for emulation of the gameboy camera. :D
106. # [03:44] <grantg> lol
107. # [03:44] <paul_irish> looking forward to THAT
108. # [03:47] <grantg> mike5w3c: I need to add a commit message bitching about https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633796 as well
109. # [03:48] <grantg> mozAudio can't count audio samples apparently (Insert LOL math joke here).
110. # [03:49] <mike5w3c> well, I see you got kinetik and David Humphrey's attention on that
111. # [03:49] <mike5w3c> so that's a good sign
112. # [03:50] <grantg> heh
113. # [03:50] <mike5w3c> those guys know a thing or two about about a thing or two
114. # [03:50] <grantg> I don't think they want to be seen around a fuzzy math bug though. :P
115. # [03:50] <grantg> *THIS* late in the beta stage of Firefox 4.
116. # [03:51] <grantg> I bet that bug is gonna stay in Firefox 4 all the way into its stable.
117. # [03:51] <mike5w3c> don't worry, they gonna fix all this in FF5
118. # [03:51] <grantg> What happened to FF4.1?
119. # [03:52] <grantg> uh-oh, firefox is "pulling a chrome" with version numbers. :/
120. # [03:53] <grantg> I remember the good ol' days when version number changes actually meant something big had changed
121. # [03:53] <grantg> now it's just all incremental
122. # [03:53] <paul_irish> yup.
123. # [03:53] <grantg> but the version numbers are going up too much still man!
124. # [03:53] <paul_irish> from chrome dev channel to all 120M users is a maximum of 10 weeks.
125. # [03:54] <grantg> They need to just use the floating point part of the version numbering more often
126. # [03:54] <paul_irish> this means engineers stay more engaged.. and releases dont need to be held up for something to land
127. # [03:54] <grantg> and increment by 0.1 rather than 1 each release
128. # [03:54] <paul_irish> meh
129. # [03:54] <grantg> I just think they need to += 01 their version number instead of version++
130. # [03:55] <paul_irish> numbers would just climb slower
131. # [03:55] <grantg> * += 0.1
132. # [03:55] <grantg> exactly
133. # [03:55] <grantg> you guys are gonna hit triple digits with versioning sometime
134. # [03:55] <grantg> X_X
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136. # [03:55] <ben_h> they should just use major.minor.patch more consistently i think
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138. # [03:55] <grantg> yup
139. # [03:56] <ben_h> the gem convention is, increment major for backwards-incompatible updates, minor for compatible but obvious updates, and patch for internal or minor updates
140. # [03:56] <grantg> you can still release new versions as often as possible
141. # [03:56] <ben_h> FF v3.6.42462 would be fine with me :)
142. # [03:56] <grantg> just don't increment with such a big jump
143. # [03:56] <grantg> ben_h: Now you're just trolling
144. # [03:56] <ben_h> hell, even 3.6.2.<git ref>
145. # [03:56] <ben_h> :)
146. # [03:57] <paul_irish> browsers should follow whatwg's HTML's lead and just go unversioned.
147. # [03:57] <ben_h> ha
148. # [03:58] <paul_irish> chrome mostly has. externally we dont market with version numbers
149. # [03:58] <paul_irish> just the 3-4 channels.
150. # [03:58] <ben_h> i really like that approach
151. # [03:58] <grantg> paul_irish: Then how will the IT department know if your browser is up to date? </troll>
152. # [03:58] <ben_h> combined with the transparent updating, you're just using "chrome"
153. # [03:58] <paul_irish> grantg: About / Check for Updates
154. # [03:58] <paul_irish> :p
155. # [03:59] <ben_h> but then you guys do still have fine grained versioning, i see 10.0.648.45
156. # [03:59] <ben_h> works really well imo.
157. # [03:59] <grantg> paul_irish: IT guys lock down file system permissions so things like auto-update don't work for many programs in a corporate setting
158. # [04:00] <grantg> and I think hiding the version number might count as trolling
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232. # [06:39] <Neiluj> yo
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234. # [06:42] <niftylettuce> \o/
235. # [06:42] <bot-t> (10 hours 10 mins ago) <niftylettuce> tell niftylettuce to work harder, smarter, faster
236. # [06:42] <niftylettuce> o_O oh snap I better
237. # [06:43] <niftylettuce> ?tell niftylettuce work on that google extension more
238. # [06:43] <bot-t> niftylettuce, Okay.
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241. # [07:01] <Brodingo> ?tell grantg I might use the upcoming webcam API for emulation of the gameboy camera. :D <-- waaattttt
242. # [07:01] <bot-t> Brodingo, Okay.
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266. # [08:02] <Kira> Is there any difference between http://diveintohtml5.org and the book published by O'Reilly?
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269. # [08:31] <JonathanNeal> Aww, html5 homies still has a place here :)
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273. # [08:42] <nimbupani> ?tell antonkovalyov wooot! thnxxx
274. # [08:42] <bot-t> nimbupani, Okay.
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299. # [09:36] <mokush> isn't width supposed to work on table-cell?
300. # [09:44] <ruben-> With datatransfer, is it possible to save extra data? For example for a drag/drop the original x & y values of the mouse?
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305. # [10:32] <nimbupani> ?tell paul_irish can u add http://j.mp/webed101 to channel topics?
306. # [10:32] <bot-t> nimbupani, Okay.
307. # [10:32] <nimbupani> ?tell paul_irish I mean for #html5
308. # [10:32] <bot-t> nimbupani, Okay.
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330. # [11:40] <didge> I'm interested in learning the server configuration of apache2 for working with mp4 video to be viewed in Safari. Currently, Safari attempts to download the entire video. I have configured my MIME types successfully. What is the next step ?
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333. # [11:59] <jo-erlend> didge, that's not a question of apache config, I think. It sounds like you haven't provided codecs in your source element.
334. # [12:02] <didge> Ok. Thanks jo-erlend.
335. # [12:03] <jo-erlend> didge, if you look at the topic, there is a link to diveintohtml. It has a chapter on audio and video.
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341. # [12:25] <Zeddy> is there any reasonable way to upload and encode videos with html5
342. # [12:25] <Zeddy> ffmpeg seems to be non working with the latest version of PHP so i just feel like skipping it
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344. # [12:33] <didge> Zeddy; Html5 will not handle the uploading and encoding of videos. This must be done before the content becomes html5.
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346. # [12:39] <Zeddy> ok
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350. # [12:57] <gandoff> is text-outline not supported yet by browsers?
351. # [12:58] <gandoff> tried putting it on this A, no dice in safari nor ff
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358. # [13:33] <obert-> http://www.w3.org/2011/02/htmlwg-pr.html heh
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368. # [13:51] <wibby> Hi. Is it possible to draw a line that goes from e.g. blue to yellow?
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460. # [16:50] <tw2113> morning all
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465. # [16:57] <dr0id> yo
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468. # [17:00] <dr0id> i am a noob to html5, but does it work with old browsers like ie6-7 ?
469. # [17:01] <tw2113> not without some javascript help
470. # [17:02] <tw2113> well, help in general
471. # [17:02] <tw2113> there are ways to get some of the features to work, but some will forever be left in the dark
472. # [17:03] * Parts: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) ("Konversation terminated!")
473. # [17:03] <dr0id> hmm
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476. # [17:06] <tw2113> you can use the html5shiv to have the new markup tags become styleable
477. # [17:06] <tw2113> or go with modernizr for that and many other features
478. # [17:06] <tw2113> selectivizr + various java libraries to get some css selectors in the old browsers
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483. # [17:23] <BrianBlakely> A ton of Facebook news in the past week
484. # [17:24] <BrianBlakely> With the new Tab App paradigm you need a backend to do Fan-only content >_<
485. # [17:24] <BrianBlakely> For those unfamiliar, that's about 4trillion% overhead
486. # [17:25] <BrianBlakely> It's FAR powerful, but how do you tell a client that they need to provide the backend infrastructure for their Facebook page?
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489. # [17:31] <paul_irish> http://sourceforge.net/ redesign uses html5 boilerplate
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491. # [17:33] <BrianBlakely> It looks like a great implementation. I don't care greatly for the design.
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493. # [17:37] <BrianBlakely> dgathright: From wirelessben: "The back gesture is great for power users, but we're going after a bigger audience now." — thoughts?
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496. # [17:38] <dgathright> are you talking about the back gesture in webOS?
497. # [17:46] <danielfilho> paul_irish: YAY! That's cool :D
498. # [17:47] <danielfilho> I'm making a presentation framework that also uses html5 boilerplate :D
499. # [17:49] <Pewpewarrows> danielfilho: I'd be interesting in taking a look at this, haven't found any html presentation frameworks/libs that I like yet
500. # [17:50] <Pewpewarrows> when you're done with it
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505. # [17:56] <paul_irish> wowy http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/
506. # [17:57] <paul_irish> this is amazing
507. # [17:57] <danielfilho> Pewpewarrows: that's why I decided to make one from 0.
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509. # [17:57] <danielfilho> I'm doing one with with a slideshow-like option, for presentations like Ignite
510. # [17:58] <danielfilho> I'll be presenting on an Ignite event here in Sao Paulo, so I'm doing it.
511. # [17:58] <Pewpewarrows> oh neat
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513. # [17:59] <danielfilho> will register a .com domain to redirect to that!
514. # [17:59] <danielfilho> it's worth it! :D
515. # [17:59] <Pewpewarrows> paul_irish: yeah, that made my morning, the internet thanks you for posting that paulrouget
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519. # [18:01] <Tarantulafudge> video support in html5 is appauling
520. # [18:02] <Tarantulafudge> it makes me very sad
521. # [18:02] <Tarantulafudge> we will be stuck with flash forever :(
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523. # [18:03] <tw2113> only if you try to appease everyone
524. # [18:03] <tw2113> or deal with the idea of supporting webm/h.264
525. # [18:03] <tw2113> well, that last one is a solution
526. # [18:03] <Tarantulafudge> you mean supporting both
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528. # [18:04] <tw2113> yeah, support those two, they cover the widest set of browsers
529. # [18:04] <mikesusz> whatever wins, i just want to be able to use hardware decoding for it
530. # [18:04] <tw2113> and don't provide flash fallbacks :D
531. # [18:04] <tw2113> those users can suffer until they get a browser that can handle it
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534. # [18:04] <ArtPulse> Hello everyone
535. # [18:05] <Tarantulafudge> webm ftw
536. # [18:05] <Tarantulafudge> too bad there aren't ANY hardware decoders
537. # [18:05] <ArtPulse> Still no cross-browser codec huh?
538. # [18:05] <tw2113> personally, i'll likely do ogg>webm>.264
539. # [18:05] <tw2113> but i'm biased
540. # [18:06] <Tarantulafudge> tw2113, how so
541. # [18:06] <tw2113> i really got into linux circa 2007 and FOSS stuff in general, so i grew biased for open things
542. # [18:06] <mikesusz> Tarantulafudge - iOS devices? h264
543. # [18:06] <tw2113> and i find "ogg" cooler than "webm"
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545. # [18:07] <mikesusz> wish desktops had hardware decoding instead of software+cooling fans
546. # [18:07] <Tarantulafudge> mikesusz, apparently i'm implementing html5 JUST for iphones
547. # [18:07] <mikesusz> a page from the Amiga design manual - a fat agnes chip
548. # [18:07] <Tarantulafudge> -_-
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555. # [18:09] <mikesusz> oh my, to never see w3schools or expertSEXchange in my google results again: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/nolijncfnkgaikbjbdaogikpmpbdcdef#
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557. # [18:10] <Tarantulafudge> I like expert exchange results
558. # [18:10] <Tarantulafudge> the answer is at the bottom
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560. # [18:10] <tw2113> i started filtering them out of my results
561. # [18:11] <dgathright> I'm kinda amazed so few people used OptimizeGoogle/CustimizeGoogle for Firefox to block them (as well as about.com, ehow, etc...) Those add-ons have been around for years. Same functionality.
562. # [18:13] <dgathright> Still seems like it should be part a native part of Google Search and not a browser plugin, but whatevs... Hopefully they're just giving it a beta test while they work on building it in.
563. # [18:15] <Tarantulafudge> I'm just not gonna do html5 lol
564. # [18:15] <Tarantulafudge> or I'll make an alpha
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572. # [18:24] <Tarantulafudge> so if I was a developer who didn't want to pay royalties for the encoder what would I need to do?
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574. # [18:24] <Tarantulafudge> I don't think the iphone supports anything that doesn't have royalties
575. # [18:25] <Tarantulafudge> motion jpeg maybe?
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580. # [18:32] <Tarantulafudge> :S
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592. # [18:46] <Tarantulafudge> theora looks the best
593. # [18:46] <Tarantulafudge> at least it supports chrome AND firefox
594. # [18:46] <BrianBlakely> dgathright: Yes'r, that quote was from wirelessben, Palm DevRel
595. # [18:47] <BrianBlakely> dgathright: The Gesture Area is getting the boot. Won't be in the TouchPad, will be gone entirely after Pre3/Veer
596. # [18:48] <Tarantulafudge> Anyone know if .mov/.m4v are royalty free ?
597. # [18:48] <dgathright> whoa, crazy. not sure what to think about that. I loved the gesture area. (probably a better discussion for ##webos)
598. # [18:49] <tw2113> i think those are h.264 basd Tarantulafudge
599. # [18:49] <tw2113> based*
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602. # [18:50] <Tarantulafudge> tw2113, I read that the mkv/mov formats were made by apple and used to create mp4
603. # [18:50] <Tarantulafudge> not mk4 m4v*
604. # [18:50] <tw2113> given that it's an apple product, i'd wager some sort of royalties on them
605. # [18:51] <Tarantulafudge> stupid iphones
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609. # [18:56] <Tarantulafudge> maybeI should just use gifs
610. # [18:57] <tw2113> see why patents are bad? :)
611. # [18:57] <Tarantulafudge> I'm actually being somewhat serious lol
612. # [18:57] <Tarantulafudge> my video is 5fps b/w at 320x240
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615. # [18:58] <tw2113> i imagine the gif size would be worth it
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660. # [19:02] <BrianBlakely1> Some kind of bomb drop somewhere?
661. # [19:02] <BrianBlakely1> Ah, a DOS attack
662. # [19:02] <tw2113> it's apple! they're attacking cause of what Tarantulafudge said!
663. # [19:03] <tw2113> *takes a cold war era nuke safety position under his desk*
664. # [19:03] <Tarantulafudge> lol
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667. # [19:03] <tw2113> "[Global Notice] Hi folks! As you'll have noticed, we just lost about half the network due to hub issues. We're trying to put together what we can! Thanks for your patience."
668. # [19:03] <tw2113> :D
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670. # [19:04] <Tarantulafudge> nice
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680. # [19:09] <tw2113> bbs, i decided on lunch
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699. # [19:12] <Tarantulafudge> OMG thats like a 5MB gif!!
700. # [19:12] <Tarantulafudge> wtf
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742. # [19:24] <Pewpewarrows> does anyone know the current status of leaking privacy through the :visited selector in all the browsers?
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744. # [19:24] <Pewpewarrows> I know the FF crew said they were looking into fixing it last year
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746. # [19:25] <jetienne> yep ff people should know, they are the kind to follow those
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770. # [19:31] <tw2113> man, i remember when this room was in the 50 user range regularly
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774. # [19:31] <Michael> tw2113, You're an old man.
775. # [19:31] <tw2113> i know
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779. # [19:34] <BrianBlakely1> Firefox 4 fixes the FF3 problems with <iframe> and the Back/Forward buttons
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782. # [19:36] <paul_irish> http://easywebsocket.org/
783. # [19:36] * techrush wonders if FF4 will fix the dreaded @font-face "flash"
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785. # [19:37] <jetienne> paul_irish: hey what do you think about it ?
786. # [19:37] <paul_irish> oh it's yours! hahah right
787. # [19:37] <paul_irish> techrush: yup. ff4b12 fixes it
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791. # [19:37] <paul_irish> jetienne: love it. all i want is simple websockets broadcasting
792. # [19:37] <tw2113> i just live with the font flash
793. # [19:38] <jetienne> paul_irish: ah! you made my dat
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795. # [19:38] <techrush> paul_irish, great news :)
796. # [19:38] <jetienne> day
797. # [19:38] <tw2113> if someone complains about it, they should focus on more important life issues
798. # [19:38] <paul_irish> like why my feet are SO COLD >:|
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800. # [19:39] <paul_irish> jetienne: yeah everyone's existing websockets service doesnt do this.. but this is so perfect for a quick prototype.. getting it going quick
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803. # [19:39] <paul_irish> 90% this is all you need if you're doing websockets something
804. # [19:39] <jetienne> paul_irish: excelent!! you get it immediatly. you could not believe how much explaining i had to do about this :)
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806. # [19:40] <tw2113> paul's cold feet > Firefox font flash
807. # [19:40] <paul_irish> bingo.
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810. # [19:42] <paul_irish> paulrouget: did you see your callout in sylvia's book?
811. # [19:43] <paul_irish> she praised you for your kickass demos :)
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813. # [19:44] * mike5w3c_ is now known as mike5w3c
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816. # [19:45] * cheilmann is now known as codepo8
817. # [19:45] <BrianBlakely1> And this is an excellent paster: http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/ie9/ie9_vs_fx4.html
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821. # [19:46] <nimbupani> Who is sylvia :/
822. # [19:46] <daleharvey> codepo8: hey, sorry you couldnt make it up to edinburgh, you know if dees can make it though?
823. # [19:47] * tw2113 ended up at paulrouget's page about IE9vsFF4
824. # [19:48] <codepo8> I am not sure. I promise to come up some other time though!
825. # [19:48] <codepo8> I love Edinburgh
826. # [19:48] <codepo8> Yeah, paul forgot to tell me that he will release this bombshell today :)
827. # [19:49] <codepo8> Quite some retweets said that was my page :)
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829. # [19:49] <jetienne> paul_irish: can i quote you on easywebsocket ?
830. # [19:49] <daleharvey> cool sounds good
831. # [19:50] <paulrouget> paul_irish: really?
832. # [19:51] <jetienne> codepo8: where can i find the status of :visited privacy leak in current browser ? do you know ? (i ask as you seems to follow privacy closely)
833. # [19:53] <codepo8> I think only Firefox fixed that - paul?
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851. # [20:01] <paul_irish> paulrouget: yup! she thanked you for exploring the boundaries with your kickass demos
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858. # [20:09] <dgathright> jetienne: Is there much difference between easywebsockets and socket.io? (not hatin', just curious) Looks good.
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860. # [20:10] <jetienne> dgathright: socket.io requires you to get a server. to run and admin it. This is clearly a good choise if you need actual server code. the trick with easywebsocket is that the server is plain echo server
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862. # [20:11] <jetienne> dgathright: suppose you want something simple. like a chat at the website level (like facebook). or a chess game. or the usual follow my mouse case. http://easywebsocket.org can do all those cases. without running a server
863. # [20:11] <BrianBlakely1> jetienne: Is this an API wrapper for WebSockets, or does it also polyfill?
864. # [20:13] <jetienne> BrianBlakely1: the api is done with websocket standard. what is "polyfill" ?
865. # [20:13] <dgathright> jetienne: So the advantage is you are hosting the static files (js, iframe, etc...) as opposed to putting them on your own?
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867. # [20:14] <jetienne> dgathright: yep, this is mostly a boostrapping thing. if you want to code somethging fast using websocket, easywebsocket is cool
868. # [20:15] <jetienne> dgathright: if you want a massive multiplayers game with server code, it isnt
869. # [20:15] <dgathright> yeah, definitely. I see the point. nice work.
870. # [20:15] <jetienne> thanks
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872. # [20:16] <paul_irish> jetienne: yeah plz do quote me. you should update the site to more clearly define why this is useful
873. # [20:16] <paul_irish> You want to use websockets. You want to broadcast messages to all connected clients. You don't want to set up a server.
874. # [20:16] <paul_irish> Here's all the code you need. Boom
875. # [20:17] <dgathright> Maybe figure out a way to rephrase it on the website. When I think "websockets", I think two components, server code and client code. With "like WebSocket but no server setup and available in any browser" I was confused by "no server setup", cause it's gotta talk to a server somewhere.
876. # [20:17] <dgathright> If you called it a "websocket client", I'd get the point right away.
877. # [20:18] <franksalim> looks like easy broadcast. websocket is an implementation detail
878. # [20:19] <franksalim> functionally, what it gives you is broadcast
879. # [20:19] <jetienne> ok i will refactor the homepage with your feedback, thanks
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881. # [20:19] <franksalim> (my two cents)
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883. # [20:20] <BrianBlakely1> jetienne: A polyfill brings a standard to clients that do not have that capability
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885. # [20:20] <BrianBlakely1> jetienne: For example, bringing the new form controls to IE with a bit of JavaScript makeup
886. # [20:20] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: you know.. disqus could have a pretty good shot at unseating statcounter from being the browser market share stats source that everyone uses....
887. # [20:22] <BrianBlakely1> paul_irish: Do you think it would provide a more accurate picture of market share? Statcounter is great, but it is certainly… optimistic
888. # [20:22] * BrianBlakely1 is now known as BrianBlakely
889. # [20:22] <dgathright> jetienne: I've toyed with websockets before, and for the client-portion I've never thought of it as "server setup". Maybe "No need to host any files". That's the biggest advantage IMO.
890. # [20:23] <BrianBlakely> It's always funny when people use W3School's market share numbers
891. # [20:23] <BrianBlakely> Not funny "ha-ha"
892. # [20:24] <paul_irish> More like.. funny "stab-stab"
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894. # [20:25] <BrianBlakely> Haha, that works
895. # [20:26] <dgathright> jetienne: Also, do a blog post on how it works and put a link to it on easywebsocket.org. (i.e. it uses and iframe hosted on appspot, etc...). Anyways, that's all my feedback. :)
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897. # [20:26] <franksalim> does the GAE channel API use websockets yet?
898. # [20:27] * paul_irish shrugs. probably not
899. # [20:28] <franksalim> I'm 99% sure it didn't when it was released. I imagine that will change eventually
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910. # [20:43] <ben225> swapping ('video').attr('src' works fine in chrome, and firefox on osx, but not on win firefox.. anyone know why this might be?
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928. # [20:58] <daleharvey_> oh man I need to stop reading the html5 thread on hacker news
929. # [20:59] <daleharvey_> Silhouette comments are bringing out the "omg someone is wrong on the internet" in me
930. # [20:59] <mokush> isn't anybody else, except chrome, going to support desktop notifications?
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939. # [21:10] <Pewpewarrows> I'm sure it's on FF/Safari/Opera's todo list
940. # [21:12] <niftylettuce> Q(''Q)
941. # [21:12] <bot-t> (14 hours 20 mins ago) <niftylettuce> tell niftylettuce work on that google extension more
942. # [21:12] <niftylettuce> ?tell niftylettuce launch the BC HQ plugin already...
943. # [21:12] <bot-t> niftylettuce, Okay.
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945. # [21:14] <BrianBlakely> Considering Mozilla's renewed dedication to webapps, it probably isn't far off at all. Notifications are a huge differentiator for OS-level applications.
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947. # [21:15] <dgathright> mokush: I get the feeling just about everything is on hold at Mozilla until they get FF4 out the door. After that, I'd expect to see lots of fun stuff, including Web Notifications.
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949. # [21:16] <mokush> mozilla seems to feel like nokia about now, frightened
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953. # [21:18] <dgathright> Meh, I don't think that's the case. FF4 is a huge update. Takes time.
954. # [21:21] <Neiluj> nimbupani or anyone : what about multiple box-shadow with compass ? seems like the doc don't tell about it
955. # [21:21] <dgathright> the Chromium team has done a great job of moving fast, but keep in mind that project is really young, and they aren't building on top of a decade worth of work.
956. # [21:21] <nimbupani> Hmm not sure Neiluj
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972. # [21:29] <BrianBlakely> CSS selector performance, reflow & repaint need author tools.
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987. # [21:32] <BrianBlakely> The closest at the moment is relaunching Safari or iOS Simulator to color-code HWA … but it's very useful
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1004. # [21:57] <rgervais> what's the difference between <section> and <div> and can someone please provide a good a example of when to use <section> in HTML5
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1007. # [22:00] <nicksergeant> rgervais: a good overview: http://oli.jp/2009/html5-structure1/
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1009. # [22:08] <BrianBlakely> When you apply -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; to every element in your page, an esteemed baby of some sort will cry profusely
1010. # [22:09] <BrianBlakely> Especially when your article's text is hard-coded to 8px. That's just rude.
1011. # [22:10] * daleharvey_ has given up on the semantic web
1012. # [22:10] <BrianBlakely> daleharvey_: ?
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1015. # [22:12] <BrianBlakely> rgervais: HTML5 Doctor is down right now, but they have a great flowchart that will help you select which semantic element to use
1016. # [22:13] <daleharvey_> I gave up the semantic web quite a while ago, can only put up with so many li vs div arguments, rdf seems neat if you really need that type of schema definition
1017. # [22:14] <BrianBlakely> daleharvey_: Rich snippets in search results are an early example how you can immediately benefit from going semantic
1018. # [22:15] <BrianBlakely> rgervais: Download this file when it's back up - http://html5doctor.com/wp-content/uploads/HTML5Doctor-sectioning-flowchart.png
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1072. # [23:08] <rgervais> thanks BrianBlakely for your input on HTML5
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1079. # [23:10] <BrianBlakely> rgervais: A pleasure
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1084. # [23:11] <paul_irish> nimbupani: http://designfromwithin.com/taking-the-modx-revo-html5-template-one-step-further-using-html5-boilerplate/
1085. # [23:12] <paul_irish> that web design makes me wanna drink some mountain dew
1086. # [23:13] <nimbupani> :)
1087. # [23:13] <nimbupani> Neet stufffz
1088. # [23:13] <nimbupani> i hope they added to wiki
1089. # [23:15] * danheberden is now known as danheberden|away
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1092. # [23:18] * danheberden|away is now known as danheberden
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1094. # [23:30] <BrianBlakely> http://html5doctor.com/ — working weird for everyone?
1095. # [23:30] <BrianBlakely> As in, not displaying content, but not delivering an error code?
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1099. # [23:32] <mikesusz> does anyone use dean edwards ie scripts?
1100. # [23:33] <mikesusz> i'm getting a weird thing where it appends the href of every anchor onto the anchor text (in parens)
1101. # [23:33] <mikesusz> so so bizarre
1102. # [23:34] <niftylettuce> his packer?
1103. # [23:34] <bot-t> (2 hours 21 mins ago) <niftylettuce> tell niftylettuce launch the BC HQ plugin already...
1104. # [23:34] <niftylettuce> ?tell niftylettuce bchqp
1105. # [23:34] <bot-t> niftylettuce, Okay.
1106. # [23:34] <mikesusz> niftylettuce - good call, i'll use the uncompressed src and see if it does the same
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1108. # [23:35] <niftylettuce> mikesusz: why are you using packer? anyone can deobfuscate
1109. # [23:35] <bot-t> (1 min 11 secs ago) <niftylettuce> tell niftylettuce bchqp
1110. # [23:36] <mikesusz> what packer? i'm just including IE9.js
1111. # [23:36] * _jdalton is now known as jdalton
1112. # [23:36] <mikesusz> just using it to get pseudo selectors in ie6/7/8
1113. # [23:37] <BrianBlakely> mikesusz: It sounds like a CSS ::after
1114. # [23:37] <paul_irish> yeah. typically people do that for a print stylesheet
1115. # [23:38] <BrianBlakely> I think h5bp does this
1116. # [23:38] <paul_irish> yup
1117. # [23:38] <paul_irish> he might be parsing the stylesheet incorreclty and applying it in screen
1118. # [23:38] <BrianBlakely> yop
1119. # [23:38] <mikesusz> ah hrm.
1120. # [23:38] * paul_irish _o/\o_ BrianBlakely
1121. # [23:38] <BrianBlakely> Curly bracket is off
1122. # [23:38] <BrianBlakely> :P
1123. # [23:38] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2) (Quit: boaz)
1124. # [23:39] <mikesusz> paul_irish - this is in a theme child'd off of joel o's and my html5 boilerplate wordpress theme :)
1125. # [23:40] <paul_irish> supercool
1126. # [23:40] <paul_irish> i was looking yesterday to see if joel's was live anywhere
1127. # [23:40] <paul_irish> didnt spot it
1128. # [23:40] <mikesusz> maybe the way wordpress gets the stylesheet of the parent theme is how its getting the print css too
1129. # [23:40] <mikesusz> paul_irish - we've got two sites that use it as a parent, both launching within the next few weeks hopefully
1130. # [23:41] <paul_irish> i personally dont trust the ie7/8/9 .js 's -- these days i would trust selectivizr a bit more
1131. # [23:41] <paul_irish> v cool
1132. # [23:41] <paul_irish> protip: dean edwards lurks on reddit as 9jack9
1133. # [23:42] <BrianBlakely> outed
1134. # [23:42] * Parts: BrianBlakely (~Adium@208.253.25.162)
1135. # [23:42] <gandoff> is text-outline not supported yet by browsers?
1136. # [23:42] <gandoff> tried putting it on this A, no dice in safari nor ff
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1138. # [23:43] <tw2113> i wonder if it's posing as text-stroke
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1142. # [23:49] * edwinjarvis is now known as frankstallone
1143. # [23:49] <mikesusz> y'all are smarties
1144. # [23:49] <mikesusz> it's not discriminating against the @media rules in the boilerplate stylesheet
1145. # [23:52] <mikesusz> paul_irish - so what's your recommendation for a polyfill to support pseudo selectors when using html5 boilerplate?
1146. # [23:52] <paul_irish> selectivizr
1147. # [23:52] * Trisox[theFirst] is now known as Trisox
1148. # [23:52] <paul_irish> soon , once Neiluj has his way, you'll be able to conditionally load it too
1149. # [23:53] <mikesusz> paul_irish ah, okay. i can still put it in conditional comments, no? i'm only using it for ie sub 9
1150. # [23:53] <tw2113> of course
1151. # [23:53] <paul_irish> yeah that works
1152. # [23:54] <Neiluj> mikesusz: the main reason I wanted async load was parallel loading
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1154. # [23:55] <Neiluj> but the default use is <!--[if (gte IE 6)&(lte IE 8)]>
1155. # [23:56] <mikesusz> Neiluj - to protect any IE5.5 users?
1156. # [23:56] <tw2113> they're a fragile bunch
1157. # [23:56] <Neiluj> I guess
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1159. # [23:59] <mikesusz> awesome, many thanks gentlemen :)
1160. # [23:59] <mikesusz> (and ladies?)
1161. # Session Close: Wed Feb 16 00:00:00 2011

The end :)