/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-02-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 16 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:00] <mikesusz> i'll check dean's issues for ie7 and if i don't find one for parsing @media print {} i'll open one
  4. # [00:00] <Neiluj> not me :)
  5. # [00:01] <mikesusz> Neiluj :) was just covering my bases. don't want to stereotype
  6. # [00:01] <Neiluj> (was talking about my gender)
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  8. # [00:01] <Neiluj> oh ok
  9. # [00:01] <Neiluj> :p
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  17. # [00:10] <tw2113> i know one thing, selectivizr saved me last week from lots of edits
  18. # [00:11] <gandoff> how so?
  19. # [00:12] <tw2113> it enabled an advanced selector i was using for the IE's preventing me from having to tack on classes
  20. # [00:12] <mikesusz> i opened an issue for dean - http://code.google.com/p/ie7-js/issues/detail?id=305
  21. # [00:12] <mikesusz> tw2113 - yeah my bail-out option was to do something silly like put counters in my loops in php,
  22. # [00:12] <mikesusz> or write javascript to add item1 item2 ... and first/last
  23. # [00:15] <Neiluj> .first sucks so hard...
  24. # [00:17] <niftylettuce> \o/ chrome extension time!
  25. # [00:20] <gandoff> can we set margin color? or just background and border color?
  26. # [00:21] <tw2113> i have never heard of margin colors, to be honest
  27. # [00:22] <gandoff> poo
  28. # [00:22] <gandoff> i have the 'dangling divider' issue and last-child won't work for me
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  34. # [00:30] <Neiluj> gandoff: margin is "outside" so yes, no background
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  49. # [00:47] <ben225> i'm building an html5 player, quite rudimentary, based on video for everybody, implements overlays, and uses thumbnails to swap video in player. Video swapping works great in webkit browsers, but not firefox (well it does in ff 4 osx, but not 3.6xx)
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  51. # [00:47] <ben225> I'm doing a standard ('#videoPlayer').attr('src', 'src video .ogv) type approach
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  53. # [00:48] <ben225> it is technically swapping the source in firefox, but its not loading it into the player
  54. # [00:48] <ben225> in webkit- it will load the new video into the current player, however, in ff, the previous video keeps playing..
  55. # [00:49] <ben225> I do not know about the differences between webkit and mozilla when it comes to html5 video and the DOM
  56. # [00:49] <ben225> anyone know?
  57. # [00:49] <Neiluj> ben225: did you try to first pause() the current ?
  58. # [00:50] <Neiluj> used the "canplay" event ?
  59. # [00:50] <ben225> yup
  60. # [00:51] <Neiluj> a bit old but looks correct info : http://www.chipwreck.de/blog/2010/03/01/html-5-video-dom-attributes-and-events/
  61. # [00:51] <ben225> whats canplay?
  62. # [00:51] <ben225> i was hoping you'd respond Neiluj :)
  63. # [00:51] <Neiluj> like its name says : it tells when the video can play, have enough buffer
  64. # [00:52] <ben225> i need to just break down your player at the french gov't porn site :)
  65. # [00:52] <Neiluj> :D
  66. # [00:52] <ben225> just had a player close to completion for a client I would like to finish real quick
  67. # [00:52] <ben225> then get into that
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  69. # [00:53] <Neiluj> it's not pooorn, it's health prevention for gays :p
  70. # [00:54] <ben225> I know :)
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  72. # [00:54] <ben225> just didn't seem that way upon initial visit lol
  73. # [00:55] <ben225> pm'ed you Nelluj
  74. # [00:55] <ben225> Neiluj *
  75. # [00:55] <Neiluj> :D
  76. # [00:55] <paul_irish> Neiluj: ben225: http://www.w3.org/2010/05/video/mediaevents.html
  77. # [00:57] <Neiluj> paul_irish: the switch doesn't seem to work on ff3 :-/
  78. # [00:57] <Neiluj> [object HTMLMediaError]
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  115. # [02:14] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, a client has some legal search results come up with you search their name, this links appears right next to their website link I built, any idea how to get it removed b/c it is damaging her reputation
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  118. # [02:23] <Neiluj> did somebody try and succeed to have autofocus and/or autoselect with <input> on safari mobile ?
  119. # [02:23] <Neiluj> autofocus seems impossible, I tried many ways but elem.select() doesn't work neither
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  123. # [02:26] <paul_irish> niftylettuce: out SEO the other results, brah
  124. # [02:26] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: yeah I know but it had reverse effect
  125. # [02:26] <paul_irish> ?gl
  126. # [02:26] <bot-t> http://goodluckwiththatdude.com/
  127. # [02:26] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: maybe I just need to wait a day or so for the google robotz
  128. # [02:27] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: I ranked them #1, #2, and #5 on search keywords with over 5M results :), they <3 me
  129. # [02:27] <niftylettuce> site traffic exponential, advertising = $0
  130. # [02:27] <niftylettuce> ?gl@niftylettuce
  131. # [02:27] <bot-t> niftylettuce, http://goodluckwiththatdude.com/
  132. # [02:28] <Neiluj> autofocus on ios ?gl
  133. # [02:28] <Neiluj> ah
  134. # [02:28] <Neiluj> ?gl@autofocus on ios
  135. # [02:28] <bot-t> Neiluj, iPhone Development | iPad Development | iPhone Programming ... - http://iphonedevelopmentbits.com/
  136. # [02:28] <Neiluj> ahaha :D
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  151. # [03:12] <tw2113> kind of interesting reading the replies on reddit over paulrouget's post
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  163. # [03:40] <niftylettuce> favorite ie6 warning message/script?
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  167. # [03:44] <frankstallone> none, they are tacky
  168. # [03:44] <tw2113> whichever uninstalls it?
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  171. # [03:46] <frankstallone> I know this is an HTML5 channel however I build with non HTML5 elements all day and never have a problem getting things working in IE6 -- conditional comments on the html helps though so I can easily over write something for .ie6
  172. # [03:48] <Neiluj> frankstallone: "never have a problem" ? what about <select> under lightbox ? :)
  173. # [03:49] <frankstallone> lol luckily i don't run into that!
  174. # [03:49] <frankstallone> although there are ways around that
  175. # [03:49] <Neiluj> :D
  176. # [03:49] <frankstallone> very screwy screwy ways
  177. # [03:49] <frankstallone> lol
  178. # [03:49] <Neiluj> yeah $('select').hide() yeah
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  182. # [03:51] <Kira> In html(5), I don't need to write <br> as <br/>, right?
  183. # [03:51] <tw2113> either way works
  184. # [03:51] <frankstallone> both works
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  186. # [03:51] <frankstallone> <br /> is XHTML and <br> is standard HTML
  187. # [03:52] <frankstallone> both are acceptable -- I still write typically with XHTML semantics
  188. # [03:52] <frankstallone> that's how I learned and its easier for me
  189. # [03:52] <Neiluj> keeping some XHTML syntax is good imo
  190. # [03:52] <tw2113> i still do trailing slashes on br and images
  191. # [03:52] <tw2113> *shrugs*
  192. # [03:52] <Neiluj> o/
  193. # [03:52] <frankstallone> yeah for <hr /> too
  194. # [03:53] <frankstallone> I'm scared that in HTML5 <IMG SRC=""> is valid
  195. # [03:53] <tw2113> everyone knows the hardcore coders never hit space
  196. # [03:53] <frankstallone> X__X
  197. # [03:53] <frankstallone> whoops /\
  198. # [03:53] <Neiluj> tw2113: so am I! o/
  199. # [03:54] <tw2113> even for text strings, they do %20's
  200. # [03:54] <tw2113> brb lol
  201. # [03:56] <Neiluj> lol no fucking way !
  202. # [03:59] <niftylettuce> fancybox not working in ie6 i think
  203. # [03:59] <niftylettuce> sry wrong chan
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  208. # [04:04] <tw2113> back :D
  209. # [04:04] <frankstallone> What are you guys using in a HTML5 world tag wise for sidebars?
  210. # [04:05] <tw2113> i've done aside before
  211. # [04:05] <frankstallone> I have been using div#sidbar still
  212. # [04:06] <frankstallone> theoretically asides are suppose to have relevance to the article/post/page which most of my sidebars don't -- they are typically related to the site but not specifically to the page
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  217. # [04:15] <Neiluj> 4AM, boss came back to the office with 2 drunk customers
  218. # [04:16] <frankstallone> like a boss
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  226. # [04:34] <niftylettuce> polymaps airplane plotting?
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  229. # [04:59] <tw2113> evening christian
  230. # [05:01] <niftylettuce> \o/ \o/
  231. # [05:01] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: extension about 50% done, woop wOOooPP
  232. # [05:01] <paul_irish> forrealll?
  233. # [05:01] <paul_irish> omg
  234. # [05:01] <niftylettuce> base camp plugin time, wooP woopPPP
  235. # [05:01] <niftylettuce> yeah I had my cousin help me a little, he is expert software engineer :)
  236. # [05:01] <niftylettuce> writes stuff for pharma companies
  237. # [05:02] <niftylettuce> java god
  238. # [05:02] <niftylettuce> taking break to write some RoR basecamp goodnesss
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  241. # [05:06] <tw2113> anyone know a good link to inform about polyfills?
  242. # [05:06] <paul_irish> remy's post
  243. # [05:07] * tw2113 googles for his site
  244. # [05:07] <tw2113> thanks paul
  245. # [05:07] <paul_irish> ?g remy polyfill
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  247. # [05:08] <Neiluj> http://remysharp.com/2010/10/08/what-is-a-polyfill/
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  249. # [05:08] <tw2113> thank you as well Neiluj
  250. # [05:08] <Neiluj> tw2113: what are you searching exactly ?
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  252. # [05:09] <tw2113> general information on them
  253. # [05:09] <tw2113> i've seen them mentioned, but don't know what they are
  254. # [05:09] <niftylettuce> any basecamp API pro's?
  255. # [05:09] <Neiluj> ok
  256. # [05:10] <niftylettuce> I would <3 to contract them
  257. # [05:10] <niftylettuce> hot pink all over their goodness
  258. # [05:10] <Neiluj> tw2113: I suggest you tool also look webshims http://afarkas.github.com/webshim/demos/
  259. # [05:11] <tw2113> noted
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  267. # [05:21] <tw2113> ha, a trademark issue prevented me from pushing to git. forgot to capitalize a P
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  274. # [05:42] <paul_irish> for(var e,l='article aside footer header nav section time'.split(' ');e=l.pop();document.createElement(e))
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  276. # [05:42] <paul_irish> thats a good looking for loop
  277. # [05:43] <Neiluj> sweet :)
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  293. # [06:58] <paul_irish> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTVqK1uOsLU
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  311. # [07:36] <nathan_smith> Hi. Just dropping by here because paul_irish said I should.
  312. # [07:38] <paul_irish> ^ made 960.gs
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  314. # [07:38] <paul_irish> and the original file i pilfered in order to do http://na.isobar.com/standards/
  315. # [07:39] <nathan_smith> Original: http://developer.fellowshipone.com/patterns && http://developer.fellowshipone.com/patterns/code.php -- But I don't work there anymore.
  316. # [07:40] <paul_irish> peaced out.
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  328. # [08:08] <daleharvey> you guys have any common way of clearing the values of a <select> / <input> etc on refresh?
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  371. # [09:33] <mokush> what's the best way to detect mobile browsers in a .htaccess file?
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  380. # [10:11] * frigginCarebear is now known as seutje
  381. # [10:12] <Neiluj> somebody knows how to fix the issue with chrome-win + inner box-shadow + border-radius ?
  382. # [10:12] <nimbupani> its a bug thats been fixed afaik
  383. # [10:13] <nimbupani> in dev releases
  384. # [10:18] <Neiluj> nimbupani: thx, so what should I do... sniff ?
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  388. # [10:28] <gandoff> is there such a thing as padding color?
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  390. # [10:28] <gandoff> i like the fact we can have diff color borders, so why not diff color padding too?
  391. # [10:28] <gandoff> optionally
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  393. # [10:32] <Neiluj> gandoff: margin and padding are not borders, if you want multiple colors I suggest http://tnels.com/2010/09/13/multiple-borders-in-css3/
  394. # [10:33] <gandoff> .multiple-background-example-1 {
  395. # [10:33] <gandoff> border: 10px solid #77ccff, 10px solid #33bbff, 10px solid #0077ff, ;
  396. # [10:33] <gandoff> }
  397. # [10:33] <gandoff> that's a good idea, we should be able to do that!
  398. # [10:36] <Neiluj> ?gl@gandoff
  399. # [10:36] <bot-t> gandoff, http://goodluckwiththatdude.com/
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  404. # [10:39] <Neiluj> I think the problem with this syntax is about the box-model, multiple borders would change the outer dimensions when non-supporting browsers would not
  405. # [10:40] <Neiluj> that's why we can do it with box-shadow, it doesn't affect the layout
  406. # [10:42] <gandoff> is there any css that will let you take an area you have, say 800 px wide, and format your body of text into 2 380px wide columns with a 40px gutter down the middle?
  407. # [10:42] <gandoff> also having the text block styled, so clean left and right edges
  408. # [10:42] <Neiluj> http://www.spry-soft.com/grids/
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  422. # [11:18] <gandoff> does border width count toward the height of a block object?
  423. # [11:18] <gandoff> or is it height and top/bottom padding only that contribute
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  428. # [11:28] <Ankheg> with border-box - it counts
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  443. # [12:07] <gandoff> so if you have 100 px of height to work with, and your padding is 10px, border is 10px, you'd have height of 60 ?
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  445. # [12:08] <gandoff> i have a horizontal menu made out of a UL. now, the height of the UL needs to be taller than the height of its LIs. is this ok? will the LI's always be vertically aligned to top?
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  457. # [13:05] <Ankheg> gandoff, ok, by default browsers use 'box-sizing' model, where width and height doesn't count padding and borders. 'border-box' use model where border and padding included in width/height. This properties used in css3, and supported by latest browsers (of course except ie8/7/etc, not that it is latest, ie using this border-box model in quircks mode). So, if you want to create crossbrowser model with doctype and such without redefining much css in
  458. # [13:06] <Ankheg> i could've missed something, and this maybe already was discussed, so sorry
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  527. # [15:02] <monteslu> wow fast SVG on IE9, whoudda thunk it
  528. # [15:03] <monteslu> not its just android's webkit that needs to get on board :)
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  537. # [15:25] <Neiluj> http://www.zefrank.com/youngmenowme/permalink.html?297 looks like paul_irish ???
  538. # [15:26] <nimbupani> it is
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  540. # [15:26] <Neiluj> hehe nice :)
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  568. # [16:04] <shepazu> no reason for that to be in flash :(
  569. # [16:05] <nimbupani> wat to be?
  570. # [16:05] <nimbupani> o i see :|
  571. # [16:05] <nimbupani> yeah :(
  572. # [16:06] <shepazu> maybe someone should make a young-me-now-me meta site, with the flash-blocked content on the young-me, and a stylish html5 version for the new-me :D
  573. # [16:07] <nimbupani> hahahahaha
  574. # [16:07] <nimbupani> NOW IN HTML5™
  575. # [16:08] <shepazu> woff fonts, css styling for the picture frames...
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  577. # [16:09] <nimbupani> animationzzzz
  578. # [16:09] <nimbupani> mebbe hearts that "beat"
  579. # [16:10] <shepazu> heh :)
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  604. # [17:04] <tw2113> so silent
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  606. # [17:06] <Neiluj> tw2113: yeah, I've just found a bug with Modernizr, somebody interested in testing ?
  607. # [17:06] <Neiluj> the bug seems to happen on Chrome win when running inside of a VM :-)
  608. # [17:06] <Neiluj> I used the same Chrome version with a "native" win and no bug
  609. # [17:06] <tw2113> i lack any VM's other than one for Win2000
  610. # [17:07] <Neiluj> I removed the test about experimental-webgl, solved it :) so I guess it's about graphic card
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  614. # [17:15] <Neiluj> document.createElement('canvas').getContext('experimental-webgl') <-- Chrome crash on VirtualBox
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  657. # [18:16] <paul_irish> Neiluj: i fixed that one too. :)
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  659. # [18:17] <Neiluj> paul_irish: with the 2.0 ?
  660. # [18:18] <paul_irish> yeah
  661. # [18:18] <paul_irish> the fix is both in git master and also the 2.0beta builder tool
  662. # [18:19] <Neiluj> ok I'll look at it, very curious about the solution :-)
  663. # [18:20] <paul_irish> just avoid making the webgl context, basically
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  665. # [18:20] <paul_irish> this is fixed in chrome 10, too.
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  667. # [18:21] <Neiluj> yeah saw that
  668. # [18:22] <Neiluj> !!window.WebGLRenderingContext ?
  669. # [18:22] <Neiluj> that was it ? :)
  670. # [18:23] <paul_irish> yeah except paul told me it false positives in FF
  671. # [18:23] <paul_irish> and no one can agree if that's a bug or not
  672. # [18:23] <paul_irish> sooo
  673. # [18:23] <Neiluj> hehe :)
  674. # [18:24] <paul_irish> that's where it stands :/
  675. # [18:24] <Neiluj> I see
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  691. # [18:50] <phrearch> hey
  692. # [18:50] <paul_irish> hey
  693. # [18:52] <phrearch> im trying to make a demo ppc ready for tomorrow, but i just noticed that lineJoin round is not supported in safari
  694. # [18:52] <phrearch> working on a canvas websocket paint app
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  701. # [18:55] <phrearch> it seems its not possible to draw a normal looking line in canvas without lineJoin round
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  704. # [18:55] <paul_irish> nimbupani: we got a request to translate to albanian .. and a morovian translator was waiting as well.
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  706. # [18:55] <paul_irish> busy peoplez
  707. # [18:55] <nimbupani> wooo
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  710. # [18:55] <nimbupani> :)))
  711. # [18:55] <paul_irish> nimbupani: i think its time to rethink the horizontal language layout
  712. # [18:56] <nimbupani> waaa?
  713. # [18:56] <nimbupani> whats vertical?
  714. # [18:56] * Joins: Drule (~Drule@217.174.82.84)
  715. # [18:56] <paul_irish> or sniff the locale from navigator and use that to do something
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  717. # [18:56] <nimbupani> wth??
  718. # [18:56] <nimbupani> wai?
  719. # [18:56] <nimbupani> whats the problem this is a solution for?!
  720. # [18:56] * Joins: Drule (~Drule@217.174.82.84)
  721. # [18:57] <paul_irish> an language chooser that is about to wrap lines
  722. # [18:58] <JSGW> Why isn't Firebug detected an uncaught JS reference?
  723. # [18:59] <JSGW> Chrome see's it no issue.
  724. # [18:59] <nimbupani> OHHHH
  725. # [18:59] <nimbupani> omg i had no idea what u were talking about
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  729. # [19:08] <cocoadaemon> ola all
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  732. # [19:09] <cocoadaemon> say, what's the method you guys would recommand to detect smartphones / handle devices / tablets and so on ?
  733. # [19:09] <cocoadaemon> I'm tending toward the stylesheet conditionals
  734. # [19:09] <cocoadaemon> something like
  735. # [19:09] <cocoadaemon> <link rel="stylesheet" href="tablet.css" media="screen and (min-width:651px) and (max-width: 1024px), screen and (min-device-width: 768px) and (max-device-width: 1024px)" />
  736. # [19:10] * Parts: MK_FG (~MK_FG@pdpc/supporter/active/mk-fg) ("o//")
  737. # [19:10] <Trisox> media querys
  738. # [19:10] <cocoadaemon> but on the other hand, I'd like to be able to retrieve the data in PHP/WP so that I can eventually display different content
  739. # [19:11] <Trisox> http://www.webdesignerwall.com/tutorials/css3-media-queries/
  740. # [19:11] <paul_irish> a lot of people use WURFL for the latter
  741. # [19:11] <cocoadaemon> oi paul_irish
  742. # [19:11] <Trisox> WURFL?
  743. # [19:11] <paul_irish> ?g wurfl
  744. # [19:11] <bot-t> paul_irish, WURFL - http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/
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  746. # [19:12] <cocoadaemon> Trisox: will media queries work with non css3 smartphones
  747. # [19:12] <Trisox> aha
  748. # [19:12] <Trisox> uhh dunno ;)
  749. # [19:12] <Trisox> i did mine test 100% screen
  750. # [19:12] <nimbupani> most likely not cocoadaemon tho support is not consistent.
  751. # [19:12] <Trisox> no css3
  752. # [19:12] <Trisox> just jquery/js
  753. # [19:13] <paul_irish> cocoadaemon: http://www.quirksmode.org/mobile/tableViewport.html#mediaqueries
  754. # [19:13] <Trisox> sup paul btw
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  756. # [19:14] <paul_irish> hai soxy
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  758. # [19:14] <cocoadaemon> wurfl is a pear extension, thank god i'm root on da box
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  760. # [19:14] <Trisox> yoo
  761. # [19:16] <cocoadaemon> ah wait, it is not
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  764. # [19:17] <Trisox> :(
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  767. # [19:19] <frankstallone> what are you guys using for a sidebar container these days in an HTML5 world?
  768. # [19:19] <frankstallone> I am still using div#sidebar
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  771. # [19:23] <egrouse> ive been using aside, franksalim
  772. # [19:23] <egrouse> uh
  773. # [19:23] <egrouse> frankstallone
  774. # [19:23] <paulrouget> frankstallone: aside
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  777. # [19:25] <paul_irish> aside is in vogue. i use div.sidebar :)
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  779. # [19:29] <frankstallone> I am with paul_irish on this one
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  781. # [19:29] <frankstallone> aside, from what I have read, has relevance to the article or post/page
  782. # [19:30] <frankstallone> and since my sidebars are relevant to the site maybe but not the page outline
  783. # [19:30] <frankstallone> I'd say aside isn't right, IMHO
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  785. # [19:31] <frankstallone> @paul_irish you typically have more than one sidebar per page? ;')
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  788. # [19:33] <paul_irish> i'm never satisfied with the number of sidebars i have
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  790. # [19:33] <paul_irish> there is always a need for more supplementary navigation and complementary information
  791. # [19:33] <paul_irish> can't get enough
  792. # [19:34] <paul_irish> don't stop won't stop
  793. # [19:34] <frankstallone> hahaha
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  795. # [19:34] <frankstallone> there's a quote to remember, "I'm never satisfied with the number of sidebars I have"
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  799. # [19:36] <grantg> tw2113: Here too? :P
  800. # [19:36] <bot-t> (36 hours 30 mins ago) <Brodingo> tell grantg I might use the upcoming webcam API for emulation of the gameboy camera. :D <-- waaattttt
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  803. # [19:39] * grantg is thinking of using the iOS 4.0/4.01 JB trick with the PDF exploit to launch an inside-mobile safari gameboy emulator (compiled to ARM).
  804. # [19:39] <grantg> to make mobile safari do plugins. ;D
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  809. # [19:43] <tw2113> eh?
  810. # [19:44] * JSGW will be happy when she doesn't need to play CSS tug-of-war for float: right|left on div,span...
  811. # [19:45] * grantg checks GameBoy Online to make sure the commit seconds ago didn't just blow up shit big time.
  812. # [19:48] <tw2113> what do you semantic nerds think...I'm trying to markup a "team members" page for the company i work for. There's going to be 4 members. Wrap the whole area up in a <section> and each member listing an <article>? or just your standard div?
  813. # [19:48] * Joins: swair (~quassel@117.211.88.42)
  814. # [19:49] <tw2113> or maybe go with an aside wrapper with sections
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  816. # [19:49] * grantg just does div
  817. # [19:49] <grantg> I don't get all this semantic bs
  818. # [19:49] <JSGW> tw2113: <table><div><span><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></span></div></table>
  819. # [19:50] <tw2113> now that's just rude JSGW
  820. # [19:50] <paul_irish> ^ what she said
  821. # [19:50] <JSGW> Don't you forget <thead></thead> and <tbody></tbody>
  822. # [19:50] <grantg> JSGW: Do a CSS selector rule for each <p>
  823. # [19:50] <grantg> xD
  824. # [19:50] <JSGW> And also, my code is full XML complient!
  825. # [19:50] <tw2113> grantg, i'm on the opposite side, my weak area is all the APIs
  826. # [19:50] <JSGW> I closed every tag
  827. # [19:51] <grantg> tw2113: You and anyone else can submit a "prettified" version of gameboy online anytime.
  828. # [19:51] <JSGW> I once made a 1000x1000 table and put it in <marquee>
  829. # [19:51] <JSGW> Damn near killed Firefox.
  830. # [19:51] <JSGW> lol
  831. # [19:51] <grantg> To make the web app index page "awesomer"
  832. # [19:52] <tw2113> i am not as concerned about that :P
  833. # [19:52] <tw2113> but yes, it is an option to fork
  834. # [19:54] * grantg is still pissed at crogers
  835. # [19:54] <grantg> No varispeed resampling of the audio?
  836. # [19:54] <paul_irish> innnnteresting http://medialoot.com/blog/html5-compendium/
  837. # [19:54] <grantg> Then web audio is NOT a super-set of mozAudio
  838. # [19:54] <grantg> and mozAudio can do things web audio cannot do
  839. # [19:55] <grantg> since implementing a resampling algo in js is "slow as fuck"
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  841. # [19:56] <grantg> paul_irish: When will chrome hardware accelerate scaling the canvas?
  842. # [19:57] <grantg> Since I get like 20 fps max before chrome chokes on gameboy online's canvas getiing scaled 2x
  843. # [19:57] <grantg> and this is 160x144 (pathetic slowness)
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  845. # [19:57] <paul_irish> grantg: in a bit.
  846. # [19:58] <paul_irish> hows GBO work on ie9
  847. # [19:58] <grantg> b/c right now if I do my emulator fullscreen, chrome slows down hella lot
  848. # [19:58] <grantg> paul_irish: Haven't tested it in IE9 RC yet
  849. # [19:58] <grantg> I don't have my PC near me
  850. # [19:59] <grantg> paul_irish: I DID notice in IE9 RC's changelog that CanvasPixelArray performance was improved. Huh?
  851. # [19:59] <grantg> I wonder if that involves accelerating the rendering as well
  852. # [19:59] <grantg> and not just the array access
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  854. # [20:00] <grantg> paul_irish: Now that crogers is on vacation, I doubt web audio will be fixed inside the chrome dev builds any time soon.
  855. # [20:01] <grantg> D:
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  857. # [20:02] <paul_irish> D:
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  859. # [20:04] <grantg> paul_irish: Only this build of safari works magic with my emulator: http://chromium.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/audio/bin/WebKit-audio.05Jan2011.zip
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  861. # [20:04] <grantg> all the chrome builds are busted
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  864. # [20:05] <jetienne> q. onload event is triggered when the url is data url ?
  865. # [20:06] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@li159-104.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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  867. # [20:06] * grantg is more intereste in the readyState of data uri resources.
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  869. # [20:06] <jetienne> how can i get this kind of information about what the browser *should* do according to standard
  870. # [20:07] <jetienne> grantg: so you would do like periodic check of readyState ?
  871. # [20:07] <grantg> onreadystate change
  872. # [20:07] <jetienne> i know some browser dont trigger onload if url content is in the cache
  873. # [20:07] <jetienne> grantg: ok
  874. # [20:08] <grantg> Don't take my word
  875. # [20:08] <grantg> Though data uris should be "immediate"
  876. # [20:09] <jetienne> ok
  877. # [20:09] <grantg> with a short delay in the browser
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  880. # [20:11] <grantg> https://github.com/Laurelai/decompile-dump
  881. # [20:11] <grantg> nice
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  885. # [20:15] <grantg> though sometimes trying to decompile assembly code back to C doesn't always work (especially if it was compiled from assembly code from the start)
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  890. # [20:23] <grantg> paul_irish: Think it'd be crazy to see a J2ME runtime come from https://github.com/notmasteryet/jvm-js ?
  891. # [20:24] <grantg> TIL Java runs inside JavaScript
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  894. # [20:27] <frankstallone> Hey, someone let me borrow their Ferrari 458 plz? k thx
  895. # [20:27] <grantg> paul_irish: I lolled
  896. # [20:27] <grantg> http://www.html5rocks.com/tutorials/casestudies/onslaught.html
  897. # [20:28] <paul_irish> you wanna write a tutorial on audio?
  898. # [20:28] <grantg> Finally other people are getting pissed off that the only way to scale in chrome is thru a bi-linear effect.
  899. # [20:28] <grantg> paul_irish: I need to release my audio js lib
  900. # [20:28] <grantg> first
  901. # [20:29] <grantg> Apparently html5rocks.com DID NOT see this page on the mozilla wiki on scaling: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/css/image-rendering
  902. # [20:29] <grantg> -moz-crisp-edges Mozilla extension. Gecko (Firefox) always uses nearest neighbor resampling (low quality). Use this value to avoid upscaled images with sharp edges getting blurry. bug 423756 .
  903. # [20:30] <grantg> heheheh
  904. # [20:30] <cgcardona> fail-forward - nice
  905. # [20:30] <cgcardona> *fall
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  907. # [20:30] <grantg> +1 for -webkit-crisp-edges
  908. # [20:31] <grantg> firefox has had -moz-crisp-edges since 3.6
  909. # [20:32] <cgcardona> can i see an example ?
  910. # [20:32] <cgcardona> not sure what they are off hand
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  912. # [20:32] <grantg> cgcardona: My gameboy color emulator uses -moz-crisp-edges
  913. # [20:33] <grantg> and it has a -webkit-crisp-edges in there already in the case webkit gets one soon
  914. # [20:34] <cheilmann> cool now we need to make things look worse to look right :)
  915. # [20:34] <cgcardona> :)
  916. # [20:34] <grantg> cheilman: bi-linear is slow as hell in all the browsers right now
  917. # [20:35] <cheilmann> I always feel for the team who built the new iphone camera - everybody complained how crap the first one was, then they added a better camera and people now use instagram for everything.
  918. # [20:35] <grantg> you can't blit at 60 fps with the default bi-linear effect for scaling in any browser right now
  919. # [20:35] <grantg> If your canvas is itself scaled, say goodbye to 60 fps
  920. # [20:35] <grantg> or even 30 fps
  921. # [20:36] <cheilmann> http://www.wearetheweb.org/ - let's talk about openness and free web and use Flash for the whole thing
  922. # [20:36] <cheilmann> my head hurts
  923. # [20:36] <grantg> except in firefox for when -moz-crisp-edges is use
  924. # [20:36] <grantg> *used.
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  926. # [20:36] <grantg> cheilmann: You kid?
  927. # [20:36] <grantg> :/
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  929. # [20:38] <grantg> "ditry little browser secret" that NO browser right now accelerates the canvas element itself for the aspect of the element itself being scaled out of 1:!
  930. # [20:38] <grantg> *dirty
  931. # [20:38] <grantg> *1:1
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  933. # [20:39] <grantg> Not even IE9, the last time I tried even HW accelerated this. <_<
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  935. # [20:41] * xonecas waves hello
  936. # [20:41] <grantg> hey
  937. # [20:42] * Joins: jamund (~jamund@66.7.120.126)
  938. # [20:43] <cheilmann> http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/3330188156/pixelfari
  939. # [20:43] <cheilmann> pixelfari :)
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  941. # [20:43] <grantg> really?
  942. # [20:43] <grantg> I wonder how jsNES and GameBoy Online look in it
  943. # [20:43] <grantg> </troll>
  944. # [20:44] * Joins: masondesu (~masondesu@c-75-64-233-135.hsd1.ms.comcast.net)
  945. # [20:44] <grantg> LOLOLOLOL
  946. # [20:45] <grantg> It works
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  948. # [20:46] <grantg> WTF
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  950. # [20:46] <grantg> Even pixelfari does bi-linear scaling on my emulator
  951. # [20:46] <grantg> I am not impressed. D:
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  953. # [20:47] <grantg> cheilmann: Definition of irony
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  955. # [20:47] <grantg> A pixelated program that does the one that wants pixelation in bilinear blurring
  956. # [20:48] <jetienne> grantg: you are the author of the gameboy emulator ?
  957. # [20:49] <grantg> ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ
  958. # [20:49] <grantg> jetienne: This one: https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online
  959. # [20:49] <grantg> And it's gameboy *color*
  960. # [20:49] <grantg> :P
  961. # [20:50] <jetienne> grantg: this is the only one i know :) impressive work
  962. # [20:50] <grantg> thanks
  963. # [20:50] <grantg> tried it yet?
  964. # [20:50] <jetienne> grantg: abit when it made the news, i had some issue with the input
  965. # [20:50] <grantg> like what?
  966. # [20:50] <jetienne> grantg: like which key to press to play the game
  967. # [20:50] <grantg> z is b
  968. # [20:50] <grantg> x is a
  969. # [20:50] <grantg> shift is select
  970. # [20:51] <grantg> enter is start
  971. # [20:51] <grantg> escape is fullscreen
  972. # [20:51] <jetienne> grantg: well i never played any game consoles :)
  973. # [20:51] <jetienne> so the a/select/start i have no clue :)
  974. # [20:52] <grantg> also, it works the best (for now (I'm giving chrome the evil look of disappoint))
  975. # [20:52] <grantg> in firefox 4
  976. # [20:52] <jetienne> grantg: maybe a drawing of a gameboy around it with the 'joystick' keys flashing when i press the keys
  977. # [20:52] <jetienne> grantg: it will look more like a gameboy and less like a window :)
  978. # [20:53] <grantg> jetienne: So you want a different page to present it then?
  979. # [20:53] <jetienne> http://www.jqtouch.com/ like that
  980. # [20:53] <jetienne> grantg: just suggesting
  981. # [20:53] <jetienne> i remember a video game doing that
  982. # [20:53] <jetienne> tweeted by ryah
  983. # [20:53] <jetienne> 2min
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  985. # [20:54] <grantg> I'm coming out with a C++ port of my emulator for iOS
  986. # [20:54] <grantg> as well as a java one for other platforms
  987. # [20:55] <grantg> iOS's js engine does things 1000 times as slow as a desktop browser
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  989. # [21:03] <BrianBlakely> iOS is surprisingly slow with web content.
  990. # [21:03] <BrianBlakely> The image filtering conversation reminded me of a great technique: http://paulbakaus.com/2010/12/07/finally-sprite-animations-implemented-via-css3-animations/
  991. # [21:03] <BrianBlakely> It doesn't fix image rendering, but the technique itself is terrif
  992. # [21:04] <grantg> BrianBlakely: Too bad I can't use it
  993. # [21:05] <grantg> b/c I do things with a t.v. tube model scan line fashion
  994. # [21:05] <grantg> I have to do my rendering scanline by scanline
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  996. # [21:06] <grantg> and that using the .data binding is slow as hell to work with in chrome
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  1000. # [21:08] <BrianBlakely> grantg: Yes, it's completely incompatible with Canvas and unsuited for emulation
  1001. # [21:08] <grantg> BrianBlakely: You're trolling now
  1002. # [21:08] <jetienne> grantg: so you support this in 3 languages and more plateforms :)
  1003. # [21:09] <grantg> b/c my stuff runs fullspeed in firefox 4 with audio. :D
  1004. # [21:09] <grantg> jetienne: lots of work. :/
  1005. # [21:09] <BrianBlakely> grantg: The technique uses CSS3 to animate sprites as indiv. elements.
  1006. # [21:09] <grantg> I know
  1007. # [21:10] <BrianBlakely> Then I've lost you
  1008. # [21:10] <grantg> But palettes can change line-by-line
  1009. # [21:10] <grantg> There'd be a shitload of putImageData for each sprite
  1010. # [21:10] <grantg> that's what
  1011. # [21:11] <BrianBlakely> grantg: Can you expand on this: "ditry little browser secret" that NO browser right now accelerates the canvas element itself for the aspect of the element itself being scaled out of 1:!
  1012. # [21:11] <grantg> This isn't the rendering model you're used to
  1013. # [21:11] <BrianBlakely> Are you talking about using 2D Transforms on the <canvas>?
  1014. # [21:11] <grantg> (each line on a gameboy is drawn one at a time)
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  1016. # [21:12] <BrianBlakely> I'm familiar with that
  1017. # [21:12] <BrianBlakely> Did you see my Q? :)
  1018. # [21:12] <grantg> BrianBlakely: Separating the sprites out as individual images has too much overhead
  1019. # [21:13] <BrianBlakely> I would imagine so, I wasn't suggesting...
  1020. # [21:13] <grantg> not to mention the fact that there are a zillion scanline tricks that cannot be emulated when using sprites as separate images
  1021. # [21:13] <BrianBlakely> What's that point about acceleration you made? When the <canvas> is scaled to something other than 1:1?
  1022. # [21:13] <grantg> oh, your question
  1023. # [21:13] <grantg> I see it
  1024. # [21:14] <grantg> bi-linear scaling is slow as hell in all browsers
  1025. # [21:14] <grantg> when you size up the canvas
  1026. # [21:15] <grantg> As if the canvas's resolution itself is 100x100, but you scale it to 200x200 via CSS
  1027. # [21:15] <grantg> that's what's slow as hell and not HW accelerated (doesn't feel like it's accelerated even if so).
  1028. # [21:15] <grantg> :/
  1029. # [21:16] <grantg> and doing nearest-neighbor scaling is js is slower than having the browser scale it via css
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  1031. # [21:16] <grantg> I have an option in gameboy online to do so.
  1032. # [21:16] <grantg> chrome slows down to 5 fps in many cases with CSS scaling
  1033. # [21:17] * paul_irish recommends the top song: http://aurgasm.us/
  1034. # [21:17] <grantg> And just to be clear, I composite and render to my own fb, then I blit the resulting frame via putimagedata
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  1036. # [21:18] <grantg> fb == framebuffer
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  1040. # [21:18] <grantg> since that's way faster than doing 2d transforms, etc, and this way I can still emulate it right
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  1043. # [21:24] <jetienne> grantg: http://www.firstpersontetris.com/ i found it back!!!
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  1048. # [21:24] <grantg> what the hell is that?
  1049. # [21:25] <grantg> And I thought I spent too much time on some stuff
  1050. # [21:25] <jetienne> grantg: a demo of what a suitable background can change
  1051. # [21:25] <grantg> heh
  1052. # [21:25] <jetienne> grantg: this is just a tetris but see how much better it is with a nice background :)
  1053. # [21:25] <grantg> true
  1054. # [21:25] <grantg> oh, it's flash. :/
  1055. # [21:26] <jetienne> well you can write that in html5
  1056. # [21:26] <jetienne> i think i saw something similar but with asteroid
  1057. # [21:26] <jetienne> so the tv would rotate
  1058. # [21:27] <grantg> heh
  1059. # [21:28] <grantg> paulrouget: I smell a flame war: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/tims/archive/2011/02/15/a-modern-browser.aspx
  1060. # [21:29] <grantg> Microsoft just called out Mozilla
  1061. # [21:30] <paul_irish> that was like.. forever ago
  1062. # [21:31] <benschwarz> ha
  1063. # [21:31] <benschwarz> paul is only interested in tech news that is < 9 hours old
  1064. # [21:31] * grantg lolled http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7991991/
  1065. # [21:31] <paul_irish> ^
  1066. # [21:31] <benschwarz> but yeah, MS took the bait
  1067. # [21:32] <cheilmann> I was wondering when the empire would strike back
  1068. # [21:33] <jetienne> who is playing chawbacca in moz ?
  1069. # [21:33] <grantg> TIL microsoft includes WebGL or DirectX for the web, I can say IE9 GTFO
  1070. # [21:34] <cheilmann> I love the fact that the post talks about "taking advantage of the underlying platform"
  1071. # [21:34] <cheilmann> well, if you only support ONE platform then this is pretty easy
  1072. # [21:34] <grantg> yeah
  1073. # [21:34] <cheilmann> to me personally modern browser means "independent of OS"
  1074. # [21:34] <grantg> And they abandoned Windows XP
  1075. # [21:37] <tw2113> part of me wants to get a copy of win7 just for the web development half of my life, but i refuse to pay for it, and lack a computer that could handle it anyway :D
  1076. # [21:37] * grantg lols @ http://i.imgur.com/2OaK6.png
  1077. # [21:38] <tw2113> the 80s were their weird period
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  1081. # [21:40] <grantg> Banksy WTF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GL9Zoquzss&feature=player_embedded
  1082. # [21:41] <grantg> gtg
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  1122. # [22:59] <Michael> Any tricks to getting rid of the dashed borders that appear when you click links in IE and FF?
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  1124. # [23:04] <cheilmann> there are tricks but the main point is that when you get rid of them then you don't help keyboard users
  1125. # [23:04] <cheilmann> there is a point to these borders - they tell users where they are.
  1126. # [23:05] <cheilmann> very good explanation of the why and how to get rid of them safely: http://24ways.org/2009/dont-lose-your-focus
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  1136. # [23:19] <bcardarella> Do websockets try to coerce the data? For example if I send "{x: 123, y: 456}" it would try to parse that as JSON? Or does it only return the string form? The same for arrays and other basic JS objects
  1137. # [23:20] <BrianBlakely> Michael: CSS — a:focus { outline: 0; }
  1138. # [23:21] <BrianBlakely> Michael: But that's the incomplete implementation… you can make everyone happy if you use the technique described here: http://people.opera.com/patrickl/experiments/keyboard/test
  1139. # [23:21] <franksalim> bcardarella: websockets only send/deliver strings today
  1140. # [23:21] <bcardarella> franksalim: ok, thanks
  1141. # [23:21] <BrianBlakely> Michael: It basically boils down to — a:hover, a:active { outline: none; }
  1142. # [23:23] <BrianBlakely> Oh, I see cheilmann already responded >_>
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  1144. # [23:24] <tw2113> he's kind of crafty like that
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  1148. # [23:27] <grantg> paulrouget: http://twitpic.com/40je2d
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  1154. # [23:30] <Michael> BrianBlakely, thanks
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  1161. # [23:42] <cheilmann> just went through the CSS of HTML5 boilerplate - damn that's a lot of research and work to make things not break in all kind of browsers. Amazing.
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  1165. # [23:50] <tw2113> *nods*
  1166. # [23:51] <tw2113> that's also a lot of people knowing their shit too
  1167. # [23:54] <frankstallone> @cheilmann yes it is, and make sure you define your :focus styles!
  1168. # [23:54] <frankstallone> =)
  1169. # [23:54] * Joins: grantg (42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15)
  1170. # [23:55] <grantg> paul_irish: I'm getting negative karma with a reddit post - http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/fms65/yo_dawg/
  1171. # [23:55] <grantg> D:
  1172. # [23:55] <BrianBlakely> A lot of best practices, aggregated and published in a reusable format in one place.
  1173. # [23:55] <cheilmann> Giving a long talk tomorrow about the fact that people should stop bitching at each other about things that only we care about instead of using good tech in real products
  1174. # [23:55] <grantg> 0 points (22% like it)
  1175. # [23:56] <paul_irish> grantg: shoulda titled it better
  1176. # [23:56] <BrianBlakely> Many people were doing this, we had our own boilerplate here, but the *publishing* part is super-important
  1177. # [23:56] <cheilmann> this will feel good
  1178. # [23:56] <grantg> :/
  1179. # [23:56] <paul_irish> cheilmann: sounds good. where you giving it?
  1180. # [23:56] <grantg> 0 points (16% like it)
  1181. # [23:56] <grantg> oh, com'on
  1182. # [23:57] * grantg wonders how low it can go
  1183. # [23:57] <cheilmann> paul_irish: London Web Standards meetup
  1184. # [23:57] <cheilmann> there's be video
  1185. # [23:57] <cheilmann> paul_irish: have you seen http://initializr.com/ ?
  1186. # [23:57] <cheilmann> :)
  1187. # [23:57] <paul_irish> yup yup
  1188. # [23:58] <paul_irish> we're working with him to integrate it into html5boilerplate.com for our 1.0
  1189. # [23:58] <paul_irish> its almost done
  1190. # [23:58] <dilvie> paul_irish: That's awesome.
  1191. # [23:58] <frankstallone> *yay*
  1192. # [23:58] <cheilmann> It looked like a GUI for boilerplate :)
  1193. # [23:58] <dilvie> Very cool!
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  1195. # Session Close: Thu Feb 17 00:00:00 2011

The end :)