/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-03-03 / end

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1. # Session Start: Thu Mar 03 00:00:00 2011
2. # Session Ident: #html5
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14. # [00:44] <paul_irish> http://canweshipyet.com/ thats the wrong direction
15. # [00:44] <paul_irish> nimbupani: tbh i have no problem with moz not implementing svg fonts
16. # [00:44] <nimbupani> wai
17. # [00:45] <paul_irish> no significant value
18. # [00:46] <nimbupani> but there are possibilities™
19. # [00:46] <paul_irish> s/possibilities/security vulnerability vectors/
20. # [00:47] <nimbupani> :(
21. # [00:47] <tw2113> personally, i'm a fan of svg in general, but there has to be better uses than font rendering with it
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32. # [01:14] <tw2113> does anyone think it'd be a wise idea to include notes about php/javascript on a resume that they're not the strongest areas, but I have some experience with them?
33. # [01:14] <tw2113> or just put "Novice" next to them?
34. # [01:14] <tw2113> or perhaps Intermediate
35. # [01:15] <Senix> in any computer language it is a good practice to put readers notes by your code so it is more easily read.
36. # [01:16] <tw2113> i'm aiming more for resume than portfolio at the moment
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38. # [01:17] <Senix> ah i see, well then, this is your choice to be made, notes or none? I do not know
39. # [01:17] <tw2113> i'll ask the ever knowing twitter :D
40. # [01:17] <tw2113> thanks for the thoughts nonetheless Senix
41. # [01:18] <Senix> you are welcome
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49. # [01:33] <niftylettuce> xonecas: yo yo
50. # [01:33] <xonecas> hey
51. # [01:33] <niftylettuce> ty again earlier
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54. # [01:39] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: pushing myself to get that goog extension finished, argghh
55. # [01:39] <paul_irish> cool cool
56. # [01:39] <paul_irish> :)
57. # [01:39] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: I O U sir!
58. # [01:39] <paul_irish> you remember the things i said last night? heh
59. # [01:40] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: every word :)
60. # [01:40] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: some of the audio got recorded, it was weird, silly Debian sound drivers :)
61. # [01:40] <paul_irish> ah
62. # [01:41] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: i still would like to chat bout that idea i have
63. # [01:41] <paul_irish> me too
64. # [01:41] <niftylettuce> lmk when yo freeee
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66. # [01:46] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: my advisor wanted me to play it in class, but since all audio isn't there i really couldn't :(
67. # [01:50] <paul_irish> aw
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77. # [02:12] <grantg> niftylettuce: A wild FB app appears: http://apps.facebook.com/jspokemoncrystal/
78. # [02:12] <bot-t> (3 hours 44 mins ago) <niftylettuce> tell grantg IE reporting invalid arg L18 C205 on http://maps.gstatic.com/intl/en_us/mapfiles/api-3/3/11/main.js
79. # [02:13] <xonecas> grantg: oh no.. :-)
80. # [02:13] <grantg> xonecas: yo dawg
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82. # [02:14] <grantg> need not say more
83. # [02:14] <grantg> hangs IE users
84. # [02:14] <grantg> lol
85. # [02:14] <grantg> at least <= 8
86. # [02:15] <grantg> admiral akbar says it's a trap for IE users.
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90. # [02:21] <grantg> Screw this shit: http://twitter.com/#!/charliesheen/status/43114597573599232
91. # [02:21] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/eKWft9 @charliesheen: In all sincerity... Thank you Twitter community for the warm reception & the followers that helped get me to 1M in 24 hours!!!
92. # [02:21] <socialhapy> #teamsheen
93. # [02:23] <niftylettuce> grantg: nice!!
94. # [02:23] <grantg> lol
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96. # [02:25] <niftylettuce> grantg: full screen mode is cool
97. # [02:25] <grantg> heh
98. # [02:25] <niftylettuce> 8 bittttt almost
99. # [02:25] <niftylettuce> I'm going to to try playing it on a DOS virtual machine
100. # [02:25] * niftylettuce a wild DOS VM appears
101. # [02:26] <grantg> TIL I'm running an emulation of the GB-Z80 CPU architecture with the Pokemon Crystal ROM loaded in, fullspeed in javascript, all inside an iframe from within facebook
102. # [02:26] <grantg> :P
103. # [02:26] <grantg> with audio as a bonus
104. # [02:27] * grantg went full retard.
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111. # [02:38] <xonecas> jquery noisy plugin FTW! :-) xonecas.com
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113. # [02:40] * paul_irish is using script,style { display:block} for fun code sample time!
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130. # [02:51] <xonecas> paul_irish: does it work?
131. # [02:51] <paul_irish> of course
132. # [02:52] <xonecas> does the code still run?
133. # [02:52] <paul_irish> yup
134. # [02:52] <xonecas> can you use syntax hl?
135. # [02:52] <xonecas> eheh
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137. # [02:54] <paul_irish> nope
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142. # [02:56] <tw2113> sup all
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147. # [02:59] <shichuan> paul_irish: in the early days, jquery has a 'initializr' like feature to select features you want, what happened to that? cos of structure/performance issue so being removed?
148. # [03:02] <xonecas> shichuan: With some elbow grease you can modularize jquery, but I don't know if its worth it.
149. # [03:03] <xonecas> using its plugin architecture, you could possible turn some pieces of the core into plugins
150. # [03:03] <shichuan> xonecas: i am building a library at work, dunno if it shld be modular
151. # [03:03] <xonecas> I think paul_irish mentions this on one of his screencasts
152. # [03:03] <shichuan> i see
153. # [03:04] <xonecas> I like modularity
154. # [03:04] <paul_irish> SlexAxton tried to do that last year. it's basically impossible now :(
155. # [03:04] <paul_irish> core is build in modules but they are quite interdependent
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157. # [03:05] <xonecas> I see, too bad, it would be cool to customize jQuery for the task
158. # [03:05] <xonecas> can't complain though, its not like jQuery is too big or something… :-)
159. # [03:06] <shichuan> yea, the library is not that big
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161. # [03:13] <tw2113> mauahaha
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165. # [03:20] <paul_irish> http://tedxportland.com/
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167. # [03:26] <antonkovalyov> thats a cool effect
168. # [03:27] <nimbupani> i had seen that in packaging :)
169. # [03:27] <nimbupani> but its pretty neat to port to website design
170. # [03:27] <nimbupani> now all we need is necolas to do it with pseudo elements
171. # [03:28] <antonkovalyov> i might go, actually
172. # [03:28] <antonkovalyov> and oh look
173. # [03:28] <antonkovalyov> tedx is exactly 700 dollars cheaper than jsconf :-P
174. # [03:29] <nimbupani> it looks sad tho the speaker list
175. # [03:29] <nimbupani> all of em VPs and what not
176. # [03:29] <nimbupani> boring
177. # [03:29] <antonkovalyov> nike guy
178. # [03:30] <antonkovalyov> also half of them are businesses for hipsters
179. # [03:30] <antonkovalyov> organic and all that
180. # [03:30] <antonkovalyov> you should like it, nimbupani
181. # [03:30] <nimbupani> but its mainstreammm
182. # [03:30] <nimbupani> who wants them
183. # [03:33] <nimbupani> but it does look okay i guess.
184. # [03:33] <nimbupani> very awesome website tho
185. # [03:33] <nimbupani> love the gradient just below the nav too
186. # [03:33] <nimbupani> very polished
187. # [03:35] <xonecas> antonkovalyov: I just saw the sf javascript pub night
188. # [03:35] <xonecas> I'm going to the one on the 17th
189. # [03:36] <antonkovalyov> xonecas, cool, will see you there
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191. # [03:37] <xonecas> :-)
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219. # [04:58] <grantg> paul_irish: http://apps.facebook.com/jszelda/
220. # [04:58] <grantg> :P
221. # [04:58] * grantg went even more full retard.
222. # [05:00] <grantg> xonecas: Don't get a heart attack
223. # [05:00] <xonecas> LOL
224. # [05:00] <xonecas> zelda is good too, but i'm really a super mario bros fan
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226. # [05:01] <danielfilho> me too, xonecas :D
227. # [05:01] <grantg> 'tis will cometh
228. # [05:03] <grantg> It will make your computers nice and toasty
229. # [05:03] <xonecas> grantg: so when are you going to wip out that wii emulator?
230. # [05:03] <xonecas> :-P
231. # [05:03] <grantg> heh
232. # [05:03] <grantg> When we get 100 ghz processors
233. # [05:03] <grantg> xD
234. # [05:03] <xonecas> can't wait to play super mario galaxy on my browsers
235. # [05:04] <xonecas> ehhe
236. # [05:05] <danielfilho> well... it's 1am in brazil and I have to watch a product delivery at 5am :(
237. # [05:05] <danielfilho> good night everyone!
238. # [05:05] <grantg> nn
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240. # [05:09] <xonecas> nn
241. # [05:09] <grantg> heh
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243. # [05:10] <grantg> xonecas: I hope you're not trying to guess the js super mario bros' url. :/
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245. # [05:13] <xonecas> no :-(
246. # [05:14] <xonecas> at this point I already have your emulator running on my home-server
247. # [05:14] <xonecas> i got it with mario as the default
248. # [05:14] <xonecas> its a pay to keep updating with your repo though, I need to automate that with git
249. # [05:14] <xonecas> *pain
250. # [05:15] <grantg> lololololool
251. # [05:15] <grantg> TIL someone is trying to do actual gaming with this
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255. # [05:20] <tw2113> http://imgfave.com/view/1188257
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261. # [05:32] * niftylettuce a WILD grantg appears
262. # [05:32] * niftylettuce grantg has been tamed unsuccessfully, please proceed to the next grantg
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266. # [05:45] <nimbupani> paul_irish: https://github.com/alanhogan/html5-boilerplate/commit/dcfc478dad92a4e26ce7bc4c9ad40a1ec72482cf is a good case for documentation i think
267. # [05:45] <nimbupani> i dont want to add it tho.
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269. # [05:45] <paul_irish> document it on css3plz
270. # [05:46] <paul_irish> er something
271. # [05:46] <nimbupani> :|
272. # [05:46] <nimbupani> yeah i mean this wont impact users who use .ie6 for ms filters
273. # [05:46] <nimbupani> only those who clobber the main styles with it :/
274. # [05:47] <paul_irish> also ie9 doesnt support proper css gradients still
275. # [05:47] <paul_irish> iunno i dont consider this boilerplate's role to solve
276. # [05:48] <nimbupani> yeah def
277. # [05:48] <nimbupani> i would think more like put your ms-filter shit in .ie6 as a guide
278. # [05:54] <niftylettuce> any feedback about DreamIt ventures?
279. # [05:54] <niftylettuce> versus YCombinator or?
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289. # [06:10] <grantg> yo dawg, I went even more full retard.
290. # [06:11] <grantg> http://apps.facebook.com/jspokemonred/ http://apps.facebook.com/supermariobrosgb/ http://apps.facebook.com/jspokemoncardgame/
291. # [06:11] <grantg> The internetz is pleased.
292. # [06:11] <grantg> tw2113: Shit brix
293. # [06:13] <niftylettuce> grantg: omg
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295. # [06:13] <niftylettuce> grantg: internet rev0lution
296. # [06:13] <grantg> heh
297. # [06:14] <grantg> don't forget about http://apps.facebook.com/jszelda/ and http://apps.facebook.com/jspokemoncrystal/
298. # [06:14] <grantg> that's 5
299. # [06:14] <grantg> :P
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302. # [06:14] <grantg> niftylettuce: The internetz definitely haz been pleased.
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307. # [06:20] <TheEmpath2> hail
308. # [06:20] <grantg> hey
309. # [06:20] <TheEmpath2> a question
310. # [06:21] <TheEmpath2> so
311. # [06:22] <TheEmpath2> i'd like to pull down content (video, images, music) from a CDN and put them in html5 cache for offline use
312. # [06:22] <TheEmpath2> most people will opt for loading all the content up front, but not i. i'll be grabbing bare minimal assets then streaming the rest during application use
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314. # [06:23] <TheEmpath2> has this ever been done in html5 yet? and if so, point my silliness to it!
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347. # [08:44] <paul_irish> http://canweshipyet.com/
348. # [08:44] <paul_irish> wooo
349. # [08:44] <niftylettuce> lol
350. # [08:45] <niftylettuce> nice
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353. # [08:47] <jdalton> diggin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng-085j1WM0
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500. # [16:05] <groundnuty> hey, I'm planning to write a small web app which main features will be graphs plotting and drag and drop. I was thinkig of using html5 for this. Are there any web frameworks that uses html5 atm?
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503. # [16:09] <jquerier> Hello what you all think should i use html5 now?
504. # [16:12] <Moo-_-_> jquerier: yes
505. # [16:12] <Moo-_-_> groundnuty: there are specifically frameworks for doing plotting
506. # [16:12] <Moo-_-_> groundnuty: the problem is not limited to HTML5 scope
507. # [16:13] <jquerier> ok i heared html5 is better then html4 for seo true?
508. # [16:13] <Moo-_-_> jquerier: yes. it is much better.
509. # [16:13] <nimbupani> hahahaha
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511. # [16:13] <Moo-_-_> yes yes yes
512. # [16:13] <nimbupani> jquerier: no really there is no difference.
513. # [16:13] <Moo-_-_> jquerier: well in fact, all depends what are you doing
514. # [16:13] <jquerier> ok
515. # [16:13] <Moo-_-_> and you cannot expect meaningful answers unless you give more careful background information
516. # [16:14] <Moo-_-_> what browsers your users are suing
517. # [16:14] <Moo-_-_> what is the purpose of your site
518. # [16:14] <Moo-_-_> and so on
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520. # [16:14] <Fyrd> I hate it when users sue my browser.
521. # [16:15] <jquerier> hmm i have in 4 different and some say yes use html5 some say no..
522. # [16:15] <Fyrd> jquerier: "using HTML5" in itself isn't very specific.
523. # [16:15] <Moo-_-_> jquerier: that's not how you be a good eveloper
524. # [16:15] <nimbupani> hahahahha Fyrd
525. # [16:16] <Moo-_-_> instead of asking questions randomly, try understand the problem you are facing
526. # [16:16] <Moo-_-_> if we do not understand why you are asking the questions then we cannot help you
527. # [16:16] <nimbupani> jquerier: why dont you read about developing with web standards at first.
528. # [16:17] <nimbupani> SEO is a by product of good markup (and good content)
529. # [16:17] <nimbupani> not the other way around.
530. # [16:17] <groundnuty> Moo-_-_: and how about html4-5 compatibility? Lets say I have a web framework that generates css2/html4 etc. Would it wotk if I decided to splace html5 tags into such generated page?
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532. # [16:17] <Moo-_-_> groundnuty: please find a generic plotting framework and do not limit your thinkingn to html5. if it's html4 or html5 it's an implementation detail.
533. # [16:18] <Moo-_-_> jquerier: but if you want an short answer then it is "HTML5 yes"
534. # [16:18] <Moo-_-_> but I say that's just because I hate internet explorer
535. # [16:19] <groundnuty> Moo-_-_: well ok, I asked here in because graph plotting/D&D usually required some heavy libs. And from what I have seen I could do it using just html5.
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537. # [16:20] <groundnuty> Moo-_-_: and since it is student/university project - experiments/using new sollution is allowed :)
538. # [16:21] <Moo-_-_> groundnuty: then go for it :)
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540. # [16:21] <Fyrd> When people ask if they should "use HTML5" do they generally mean just using the new semantic elements?
541. # [16:22] <Moo-_-_> Fyrd: it does not matter what they mean... use answer yes
542. # [16:22] <Fyrd> Unless otherwise specified like by groundnuty
543. # [16:22] <Moo-_-_> :)
544. # [16:22] <Fyrd> Moo-_-_: Heh. :)
545. # [16:22] <Moo-_-_> just promote new web standards
546. # [16:22] <groundnuty> besides it is fun to use new cool tech :)
547. # [16:22] <Moo-_-_> it takes some level of insight to discuss what HTML5 is and most of the front-end developers do not necessary have that
548. # [16:23] <Moo-_-_> but after they try it they might gain the insight
549. # [16:23] <Moo-_-_> if they burn their fingers in the process, well, it is not our fault :P
550. # [16:24] <Moo-_-_> and techically HTML5 is superior to HTML4 in any aspect
551. # [16:24] <Moo-_-_> so there is no reason to stick with HTML4, is there?
552. # [16:24] <Fyrd> Nope.
553. # [16:24] <Moo-_-_> so yes :)
554. # [16:25] <Fyrd> The problem starts with people assuming if they can use part of HTML5 they can use all of it.
555. # [16:25] <Fyrd> Though hopefully few do so.
556. # [16:27] <groundnuty> btw. it is possible to have a html4 page with parts of html5? - exampel canvas?
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558. # [16:29] <Fyrd> Absolutely.
559. # [16:29] <Fyrd> Though using the HTML5 doctype is probably the safest part of HTML5 anyway.
560. # [16:30] <Fyrd> But if for whatever reason you can't change it, things should work anyway.
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562. # [16:30] <Fyrd> Apple actually released canvas quite some time before there was an HTML5.
563. # [16:30] <nimbupani> a lot of browsers did :)
564. # [16:31] <nimbupani> opera did the video
565. # [16:31] <Fyrd> True that.
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567. # [16:34] <groundnuty> and how about drag and drop support in browshers? - it is as good as canvas atm?
568. # [16:34] <groundnuty> (I dont care about IE)
569. # [16:34] <nimbupani> nope
570. # [16:35] <nimbupani> groundnuty: whencaniuse.com by awesome Fyrd should answer all your questions
571. # [16:35] <Fyrd> :)
572. # [16:36] <groundnuty> nimbupani: thx :)
573. # [16:36] <groundnuty> thos tables look really pro :)
574. # [16:37] <Fyrd> Thanks groundnuty!
575. # [16:38] <Fyrd> Personally I'd use jqueryui for fancy drag 'n drop stuff.
576. # [16:38] <Fyrd> http://jqueryui.com/demos/droppable/
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580. # [16:45] <daleharvey> is there a decent / recommended html5.js script?
581. # [16:45] <daleharvey> the backports html5 stuff to sucky browsers
582. # [16:45] <daleharvey> *that
583. # [16:47] <jetienne> daleharvey: yep several for each part. like dom, javascript, canvas. http://code.google.com/p/html5shiv/ https://github.com/kriskowal/es5-shim and likely other i forget
584. # [16:48] <nimbupani> ?g github modernizr html5 polyfills
585. # [16:48] <bot-t> nimbupani, HTML5 Cross browser Polyfills - GitHub - https://github.com/Modernizr/Modernizr/wiki/HTML5-Cross-browser-Polyfills
586. # [16:48] <daleharvey> html5 shiv just does the tag things, not bothered about them
587. # [16:49] <daleharvey> I mean like, html5 forms, placeholder, autofocus, progress bars, etc
588. # [16:49] <Fyrd> daleharvey: See the polyfill list
589. # [16:49] <Fyrd> Might not have everything, but it's got a lot.
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591. # [16:49] <jetienne> Fyrd: url to the list ?
592. # [16:49] <daleharvey> ok nice, thanks
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595. # [16:50] <jetienne> oh the list is above... to many channels for me
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643. # [18:10] <bigbluehat_> I'm attempting to find/build a combobox widget from HTML5's input+datalist/select elements--is that a good approach? or was datalist only intended for suggestions (not restrictions)
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649. # [18:21] <jquerier> anyone know when html will be released?
650. # [18:22] <jquerier> *html5*
651. # [18:22] <Fyrd> 10 years from now: http://ishtml5readyyet.com
652. # [18:23] <Fyrd> But you should use it now anyway.
653. # [18:24] <Fyrd> bigbluehat_: There's a demo of the combo approach here: http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/11/firefox-4-html5-forms/
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655. # [18:24] <Fyrd> Though that may not be what you're looking for.
656. # [18:24] <nimbupani> reminds me http://ishtml5.partofhtml5.com/
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658. # [18:27] <Peter`> jquerier: the full package, including the installer and a desktop buddy to answer all your questions, will probably be ready in about four years
659. # [18:27] <bigbluehat_> jquerier: I think it's intentionally a moving target--no "real" release date
660. # [18:28] <bigbluehat_> Fyrd: tnx. had seen that
661. # [18:28] <bigbluehat_> it's helpful, but still not what I'm after...sadly
662. # [18:28] <bigbluehat_> guess it's off to find a UI toolkit I can live with :/
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664. # [18:28] <miketaylr> i tried sudo apt-get install html5 and it didn't work :(
665. # [18:29] <vladikoff> miketaylr, you forgot to add dhtml5.com to your sources.list
666. # [18:29] <miketaylr> doh!
667. # [18:29] * miketaylr <-- noob
668. # [18:29] <Fyrd> Silly miketaylr.
669. # [18:30] <miketaylr> >_>
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688. # [18:48] <bigbluehat_> Fyrd: here's exactly what I'm after: http://jqueryui.com/demos/autocomplete/#combobox
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692. # [18:49] <Fyrd> bigbluehat_: Ah, gotcha.
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694. # [18:49] <bigbluehat_> and honestly quite baffled as to why something like that isn't in html5 (along with too many other things)
695. # [18:50] <Fyrd> bigbluehat_: I could be wrong, but I think implementers can choose to make datalist work like that.
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702. # [18:50] <bigbluehat_> Fyrd: big issues with the datalist approach include a) restricting entry to just the list b) how to handle "drop down" portion (opera uses onClick in input) c) what sort of error/UI changes to make when something's entered that's not in the list
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706. # [18:51] <bigbluehat_> Fyrd: yeah, pretty sure I could bootsrap that idea on top of datalist, but may as well do it on select list at this point--as it degrades better
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709. # [18:51] <Fyrd> Well by implementers I meant browsers.
710. # [18:51] <Fyrd> But I see there's a difference now.
711. # [18:52] <Fyrd> Basically that datalist doesn't restrict.
712. # [18:52] <Fyrd> So you've really just got an alternate method of <select>
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718. # [18:56] <bigbluehat_> yeah...which, while interesting, is not much of an "upgrade" to HTML4
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721. # [18:57] <bigbluehat_> Opera's implementation (at least) is "from start" based searches...not "awesome bar" style
722. # [18:57] <bigbluehat_> another sad missed opportunity
723. # [18:58] <bigbluehat_> ah well...back to jQuery UI, I guess
724. # [18:58] <bigbluehat_> tnx for the help/input Fyrd
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727. # [19:01] <Fyrd> bigbluehat_: Hey, no problem.
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782. # [19:19] <xonecas> howdy
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794. # [19:30] <shichuan> paul_irish nimbupani: http://www.lab.highub.com/html5/molecular-mechanics-shim.html
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810. # [19:34] <nimbupani> HAWT shichuan!
811. # [19:34] <nimbupani> you could easily do a ripples animation with that!
812. # [19:34] <nimbupani> on water
813. # [19:35] <nimbupani> or am I misjudging >_>
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817. # [19:36] <shichuan> haha, it's some physics thing, but not ripple related :)
818. # [19:36] <nimbupani> :P
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826. # [19:37] <jetienne> shichuan: the dots move nicely. liquid like oil
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829. # [19:38] <shichuan> jetienne: thanks :)
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833. # [19:39] <jetienne> shichuan: requestAnimationFrame mades a diff ? i tried and no diff on the screen in my test.
834. # [19:39] <jetienne> maybe my computer is too fast to see the benefit of it
835. # [19:39] <shichuan> i dont see much diff also
836. # [19:40] <shichuan> i also tried the diff tabs thing
837. # [19:40] <shichuan> still not that much
838. # [19:40] <jetienne> maybe on a slower computer
839. # [19:40] <shichuan> yea, maybe
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846. # [19:49] <shichuan> jetienne: i updated a link with/without requestAnimationFrame
847. # [19:49] <Fyrd> Ah, love interactive physics demos. Nice, shichuan!
848. # [19:49] <shichuan> Fyrd: thanks :)
849. # [19:51] <jetienne> shichuan: can you give a pointer on the formula you used ?
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851. # [19:52] <nimbupani> Peter`: !!!!
852. # [19:53] <shichuan> jetienne: it's based on some math equation
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863. # [19:54] <jetienne> shichuan: :))
864. # [19:54] <shichuan> if you google molecular mechanics, you will find more info. i only use the formula ;)
865. # [19:55] <shichuan> ok, it's 3am at where i am now
866. # [19:55] <shichuan> i have to go to sleep, good night guys :)
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890. # [20:07] <cheilmann> New HTML5 demo showcase by Mozilla is live - https://demos.mozilla.org/en-US/ includes the HTML5 and friends demo dashboard - all new technologies in one space to try out: http://bit.ly/h2DU4g
891. # [20:10] <paulrouget> I need some help:
892. # [20:10] <paulrouget> On Firefox, this video works well: https://mozillademos.org/demos/remixingreality/desk_480.ogv
893. # [20:10] <paulrouget> But not on Chrome
894. # [20:10] <paulrouget> but exactly the same video on another server, works: http://manifold.fhtr.org/webowo/demos/remixingreality/desk_480.ogv
895. # [20:11] <paulrouget> (on Chrome)
896. # [20:11] <paulrouget> So question: why is it not working here with chrome: https://mozillademos.org/demos/remixingreality/desk_480.ogv
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901. # [20:17] <paulrouget> paul_irish: ping?
902. # [20:17] <paul_irish> yo
903. # [20:17] <bot-t> (2 hours 57 mins ago) <ajpiano> tell paul_irish i am ?
904. # [20:17] <paulrouget> paul_irish: hey
905. # [20:17] <paulrouget> I need help :)
906. # [20:17] <paulrouget> paul_irish: http://mozillademos.org/demos/remixingreality/desk_480.ogv
907. # [20:17] <paulrouget> paul_irish: this video can't be played in Chrome
908. # [20:18] <paulrouget> paul_irish: But I have no idea why
909. # [20:19] * Joins: patcito (~123@190.42.72.1)
910. # [20:19] <paul_irish> Hmmm
911. # [20:20] <paul_irish> OOoohh all these demos you guys were working on for that sneaky week
912. # [20:20] <paulrouget> :)
913. # [20:20] <paul_irish> awesomeee
914. # [20:20] <paulrouget> but it doesn't work on chrome :(
915. # [20:20] <paulrouget> because of this bug
916. # [20:21] <paul_irish> yup.. digging in
917. # [20:21] <paulrouget> thank you!
918. # [20:21] <paul_irish> i think its a mimetype issue
919. # [20:21] <paulrouget> paul_irish: other OGV video works
920. # [20:21] <paulrouget> or maybe not
921. # [20:21] <paulrouget> hmmm
922. # [20:21] <paulrouget> "Resource interpreted as Document but transferred with MIME type video/ogg."
923. # [20:22] <paul_irish> Y U think its a Document, Chrome!??!
924. # [20:22] * Quits: daveluke (~davidluke@cpe-72-225-202-168.nyc.res.rr.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
925. # [20:22] <paul_irish> the video file runs fine locally in chrome.
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929. # [20:27] <paul_irish> paulrouget: i think it wants a Content-Length
930. # [20:28] <paul_irish> shit you have one. ugh :(
931. # [20:29] * Parts: kataire (~kataire@cable-78-35-115-245.netcologne.de)
932. # [20:30] <paulrouget> paul_irish: :/
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935. # [20:36] <paulrouget> paul_irish: but this one works: https://mozillademos.org/demos/remixingreality/desk.ogv
936. # [20:37] * Joins: kataire (~kataire@cable-78-35-115-245.netcologne.de)
937. # [20:38] <paul_irish> whats the difference between the files? resolution?
938. # [20:39] * Joins: mduncan (~mduncan@216.195.221.2)
939. # [20:40] <paul_irish> though i'm getting "Resource interpreted as Document but transferred with MIME type video/ogg." on that file too.. (plus it doesnt play standalone for me)
940. # [20:41] <paul_irish> whats the demo that's hosting this?
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944. # [20:46] <paulrouget> paul_irish: https://mozillademos.org/demos/remixingreality/demo.html
945. # [20:46] <paulrouget> paul_irish: doesn't work in Chrome because of this problem :(
946. # [20:46] <paulrouget> paul_irish: but it wors in Chrome on our stage server
947. # [20:46] <paulrouget> but, there's no difference. We're getting crazy with this bug :/
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949. # [20:48] <tw2113> too bad view source doesn't help
950. # [20:48] <Fyrd> Hm, Chrome gets "X-Cache-Info:not cacheable; response code not cacheable" while FF gets "X-Cache-Info: caching.". Dunno what this is, but could it be related?
951. # [20:52] <Fyrd> On manifold.fhtr.org there's no "X-Cache-Info" at all.
952. # [20:56] <paulrouget> hmmm
953. # [20:57] * Joins: antonkovalyov (~antonkova@75-101-56-240.dsl.static.sonic.net)
954. # [20:57] <paul_irish> test page: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39519/temp/playogvvideo.html
955. # [20:57] <paul_irish> same files serve from dropbox just fine
956. # [20:58] <paulrouget> paul_irish: 403 :(
957. # [20:58] <paul_irish> really?
958. # [20:58] <paulrouget> no, the video are 403, from mozilla
959. # [20:59] <paul_irish> o
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962. # [21:01] <paul_irish> do these demos have to be served under SSL?
963. # [21:02] * Joins: rgervais (40d2c7e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.210.199.232)
964. # [21:03] <paulrouget> paul_irish: no.
965. # [21:03] <rgervais> hey guys, so I'm using the new media="screen and (max-device-width: 480px)" to target iphones
966. # [21:03] <rgervais> what's the best way to test (besides an actual iphone) on the web
967. # [21:04] <rgervais> a mobile view?
968. # [21:04] <paulrouget> rgervais: same media query
969. # [21:04] <rgervais> paulrouget: what do you mean, I mean I want to test my CSS but not an iphone
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972. # [21:05] <paulrouget> rgervais: oh, sorry :)
973. # [21:05] <paulrouget> rgervais: just reduce the size of you browser.
974. # [21:05] <paulrouget> no?
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978. # [21:06] <rgervais> heh never thought of that, but that didn't work anyway
979. # [21:07] <Fyrd> Ooh, no more blockers!
980. # [21:07] <paulrouget> it should
981. # [21:07] <Fyrd> "We" can ship!
982. # [21:08] <rgervais> not working, here's my code
983. # [21:08] <rgervais> <link href="_css/iphone.css" media="screen and (max-device-width: 480px)" rel="stylesheet">
984. # [21:08] <rgervais> works fine on an actual iphone of course
985. # [21:08] * Joins: shepazu (~schepers@skycity-akl-nz.getin2net.com)
986. # [21:08] <rgervais> but not when I reduce size of browser
987. # [21:09] <paul_irish> paulrouget: when i use charles as my proxy it's all gravy
988. # [21:10] <paul_irish> though only under SSL
989. # [21:10] <paul_irish> devtools are being less than helpful here.
990. # [21:11] <paulrouget> we have the same problem with this video: https://mozillademos.org/demos/dashboard/media/enfants.webm
991. # [21:11] <paulrouget> for this demo: https://mozillademos.org/demos/dashboard/demo.html
992. # [21:11] <xonecas> paulrouget: apache server?
993. # [21:11] <paulrouget> xonecas: I think so
994. # [21:12] <paul_irish> (this demo is pretty amazing btw)
995. # [21:12] * Joins: nicksergeant (~anonymous@dwaiter.rit.edu)
996. # [21:13] <paulrouget> thx
997. # [21:14] <xonecas> paulrouget: if the server only has mime type for ogg and not ogv it might be what is confusing chrome, same goes for webm if its not there chrome will be confused (per my experience)
998. # [21:14] * Quits: Thasmo (~thasmo@d86-32-70-59.cust.tele2.at)
999. # [21:15] <rgervais> any other ways to test the new media="screen and (max-device-width: 480px)" (besides an iphone) and shrinking the browser doesn't work either
1000. # [21:16] <rgervais> I want to test on a browser like firefox
1001. # [21:16] <tw2113> try max-width
1002. # [21:16] <tw2113> i think the device one is specific to handhelds
1003. # [21:16] <Fyrd> tw2113 is correct
1004. # [21:17] <paul_irish> paulrouget: so using charles, switching between SSL and non, it work and doesnt.. the only diff i see at an HTTP level is, in both cases, two 206 partial content req's are made
1005. # [21:17] <rgervais> trying..
1006. # [21:17] <paul_irish> but then.. in SSL (where it works) it keeps going
1007. # [21:17] <paul_irish> the response headers in both cases are identical
1008. # [21:18] <paulrouget> hmmm
1009. # [21:18] <xonecas> paulrouget: are you indicating a range? for the partial content?
1010. # [21:18] <xonecas> in the headers?
1011. # [21:19] <paul_irish> i dont believe he is explicitly, the browser is managing that.
1012. # [21:19] <paulrouget> no
1013. # [21:19] <xonecas> per the spec, you need to supply the range on a partial content request
1014. # [21:19] <paul_irish> oh
1015. # [21:20] <xonecas> The server has fulfilled the partial GET request for the resource. The request MUST have included a Range header field (section 14.35) indicating the desired range, and MAY have included an If-Range header field (section http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html#sec14.27) to make the request conditional.
1016. # [21:20] <paul_irish> and there's a keep-alive req header when it works.
1017. # [21:20] <xonecas> keep alive should make it work since you can still send the range header
1018. # [21:20] <xonecas> (i think)
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1020. # [21:20] <paul_irish> paulrouget: that's my best guess atm: Connection : keep-alive
1021. # [21:21] <paulrouget> ok
1022. # [21:21] <paulrouget> thank you!
1023. # [21:21] * Joins: benschwarz (~benschwar@59.167.185.148)
1024. # [21:22] <BrianBlakely> paulrouget: Is the banner on https://mozillademos.org/demos/dashboard/demo.html procedurally generated?
1025. # [21:22] <xonecas> paulrouget: 403 on chrome on this url https://mozillademos.org/demos/remixingreality/desk_480.ogv
1026. # [21:22] <BrianBlakely> (Web O' Wonders *is* unbelievable)
1027. # [21:23] <paul_irish> yeah the random 403s are a little weird.
1028. # [21:23] <paulrouget> cache problems
1029. # [21:24] <paulrouget> BrianBlakely: thanks :)
1030. # [21:24] <paulrouget> and this is just the beginning :)
1031. # [21:24] <paul_irish> cant friggin wait
1032. # [21:24] <BrianBlakely> yay web
1033. # [21:25] <BrianBlakely> paulrouget: Did you lay out the feature name text by-hand in the header, or is there some clever algorithmic stuff going on?
1034. # [21:26] <paulrouget> BrianBlakely: I don't understand
1035. # [21:26] * Quits: cesarstafe (~cesarstaf@200-127-99-254.cab.prima.net.ar) (Remote host closed the connection)
1036. # [21:28] <BrianBlakely> paulrouget: Sorry. One the dashboard page, there's a cool "tag"-style layout at the top. Different feature names like "JavaScript" and "Performance". Was that text positioned and sized by-hand?
1037. # [21:28] <BrianBlakely> On* the dashboard page
1038. # [21:29] <paulrouget> BrianBlakely: no. Python code.
1039. # [21:29] <BrianBlakely> paulrouget: Ah, thank you
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1046. # [21:39] <tw2113> http://www.stickycomics.com/computer-update/
1047. # [21:39] * Joins: RidaGee (~RidaBlock@c-71-199-64-190.hsd1.ks.comcast.net)
1048. # [21:39] <nimbupani> have you made your resume yet tw2113?
1049. # [21:40] <tw2113> i need to finish figuring out what skills i want to list, and activities that I think I may turn into an "interests" area like web standards, etc
1050. # [21:40] * Joins: JNZ (JNZ@unaffiliated/jnz)
1051. # [21:41] <JNZ> Just mirroring a question here, I asked it in #html a bit ago.
1052. # [21:41] <tw2113> i don't think anyone is going to care much about my drama club involvement in college
1053. # [21:42] <JNZ> Essentially I've got a menu on my website, for each page it's the same. I want the ability to "include" (as in, like you do in C).. and I want one file representing this menu so I can change it on every page with editing only one file.
1054. # [21:42] <JNZ> Is there a "nice" way to do that in HTML5?
1055. # [21:44] <JNZ> tw2113: Why's that?
1056. # [21:44] * Joins: cheilmann (~cheilmann@78.149.171.136)
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1058. # [21:49] <rgervais> tw2113: thanks max-width worked in FF
1059. # [21:49] <rgervais> when i shrink the browser
1060. # [21:49] <rgervais> but it doesn't work in IE8 though
1061. # [21:49] <rgervais> any work arounds?
1062. # [21:50] <rgervais> to be specific I did @media screen and (max-width: 480px)
1063. # [21:51] <tw2113> welcome rgervais
1064. # [21:51] <tw2113> JNZ because that was before 2007, it's now 2011
1065. # [21:52] <tw2113> i'm not sure how much media queries work with IE
1066. # [21:52] <rgervais> cool
1067. # [21:52] <Fyrd> caniuse.com/media queries
1068. # [21:52] <Fyrd> Um, without space. Though you can add the space if you just type it.
1069. # [21:52] * Joins: Michael (~disney@unaffiliated/jabberwock)
1070. # [21:53] <Fyrd> I saw a good polyfill for it the other day...
1071. # [21:53] <rgervais> that site in GENIUS
1072. # [21:53] <rgervais> thanks Fyrd
1073. # [21:53] <paul_irish> respond.js
1074. # [21:54] <rgervais> i got one more though
1075. # [21:54] <Fyrd> np rgervais
1076. # [21:54] <Michael> added some cool CSS3 tool links to my tweets: http://twitter.com/#!/irishbehan
1077. # [21:54] <rgervais> should one seperate a css to target mobile
1078. # [21:54] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/eUNSxY @irishbehan: Selectivizr - Enable support for CSS3 psuedo/structural selectors in IE6-8:
1079. # [21:54] <socialhapy> http://selectivizr.com/
1080. # [21:54] <rgervais> it should it be included in the master css file
1081. # [21:54] <rgervais> im referring to this again @media screen and (max-width: 480px)
1082. # [21:54] <Fyrd> That was it, paul_irish. :)
1083. # [21:55] <tw2113> woohoo, couple day in the mail
1084. # [21:55] <Fyrd> I actually wrote one myself some years ago, but could never be bothered to publish it.
1085. # [21:55] <tw2113> selectivizr ftw
1086. # [21:55] <Fyrd> Kinda sad, really.
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1089. # [21:56] <rgervais_> i got knocked off for whatever reason
1090. # [21:56] <rgervais_> so I'm going to repeat question
1091. # [21:56] * Joins: croby (~croby@c-24-19-51-159.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
1092. # [21:56] <Fyrd> Hm, didn't know selectivizr did media queries too, cool
1093. # [21:57] <rgervais_> when using '@media screen and (max-device-width: 480px)' should one use that using a seperate CSS file
1094. # [21:57] <rgervais_> or in the master CSS file
1095. # [21:57] <rgervais_> all in one vs seperate basically
1096. # [21:58] <rgervais_> like mobile.css will have all mobile styles
1097. # [21:59] <Fyrd> Oh wait, it doesn't, never mind.
1098. # [21:59] * Joins: dguttman (~dguttman@gige.bur.digisynd.com)
1099. # [21:59] <Fyrd> rgervais_: You can do either, I believe.
1100. # [21:59] * Quits: rgervais (40d2c7e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.210.199.232) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1101. # [22:00] <rgervais_> well I know you can use either
1102. # [22:00] * Quits: croby (~croby@c-24-19-51-159.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
1103. # [22:00] <rgervais_> i'm just wondering what do you guys recommend
1104. # [22:00] <rgervais_> in general when building a site
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1106. # [22:01] <Fyrd> rgervais_: Ah. I'd say do seperate if there's enough you're putting in there.
1107. # [22:01] <Michael> Sweet! I got a Rosetta Stone subscription
1108. # [22:01] * Michael searches for ancient babylonian
1109. # [22:02] <Fyrd> There's also this new thing people are trying where they go for mobile by default, then use media queries to target desktop browsers.
1110. # [22:02] <Michael> Fyrd, Why?
1111. # [22:02] <rgervais_> pfft, that's stupid
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1113. # [22:02] <rgervais_> though mobile is popular, it's not more popular then all browsers in general
1114. # [22:02] <Fyrd> Michael: So that the mobile browsers don't download the resources meant for desktop ones
1115. # [22:03] <rgervais_> oh I see
1116. # [22:03] * Quits: alrra (592f527d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.47.82.125) (Quit: Page closed)
1117. # [22:03] <Michael> That shouldn't happen though
1118. # [22:04] <tw2113> provide smaller sized versions for the mobile css, don't just scale down the desktop version :)
1119. # [22:04] <Fyrd> http://www.broken-links.com/2011/02/21/using-media-queries-in-the-real-world/
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1121. # [22:05] <Fyrd> And: http://www.cloudfour.com/css-media-query-for-mobile-is-fools-gold/
1122. # [22:05] <Michael> Fyrd, What about the tried and true method of checking the user agent and loading content based on that?
1123. # [22:05] <Michael> Like in Rails you can set layouts etc targetted to specific devices
1124. # [22:05] <tw2113> that's not fool proof either
1125. # [22:05] <Michael> Well no.
1126. # [22:05] <Michael> I just don't see the purpose for a desktop client to first load a mobile version
1127. # [22:05] <Fyrd> Michael: That's generally discouraged
1128. # [22:05] <Michael> by who?
1129. # [22:06] <Fyrd> Most web standardistas I guess?
1130. # [22:06] <Michael> I don't know that's why I'm curious.
1131. # [22:06] <Michael> It seems like you're hacking for mobile to the detriment of desktop devices
1132. # [22:07] <Michael> and creating the inverse of the problem you're trying to solve
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1136. # [22:17] <BrianBlakely> Fyrd: I really suggest using inches for MQ measurement instead of pixels
1137. # [22:17] <BrianBlakely> http://jsfiddle.net/brianblakely/J3AN8/
1138. # [22:17] <BrianBlakely> View in iOS Sim: http://fiddle.jshell.net/brianblakely/J3AN8/show/
1139. # [22:17] <BrianBlakely> Not sure how people can still use pixels in their examples when 720p phones are around the corner
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1142. # [22:19] <Fyrd> BrianBlakely: Yeah, I guess that makes sense...
1143. # [22:20] <Fyrd> I think the pixels thing was mostly 'cause that's how Apple's been suggesting to do 'em for their devices.
1144. # [22:20] <Fyrd> Unless that's no longer the case.
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1157. # [22:44] <paulrouget> paul_irish: check your bug mail
1158. # [22:44] * Quits: Trisox (Trisox@g31044.upc-g.chello.nl)
1159. # [22:45] <paulrouget> paul_irish: We didn't manage to fix the bug :/
1160. # [22:45] <paul_irish> :\
1161. # [22:45] <paul_irish> can you make a standalone testcase <video controls autoplay or something?
1162. # [22:45] <paul_irish> so i can report it up?
1163. # [22:45] <paulrouget> ok
1164. # [22:46] <paul_irish> (i cant do it from here due to the cross domain 403)
1165. # [22:49] <paulrouget> paul_irish: does it help? http://paulrouget.com/2big/bug.video.html
1166. # [22:50] <paul_irish> yup!
1167. # [22:50] <paul_irish> thx
1168. # [22:50] <paul_irish> btw which bugmail?
1169. # [22:50] <paulrouget> paul.irish@gmail.com
1170. # [22:50] <paul_irish> k k
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1172. # [22:52] <paulrouget> we're trying Connection:Keep-Alive
1173. # [22:52] <paulrouget> Keep-Alive:timeout=5, max=1000
1174. # [22:52] <paulrouget> it's gonna take some time
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1176. # [22:52] <paulrouget> paul_irish: do you still have the 403 errors?
1177. # [22:58] <paul_irish> i filed this btw http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=74852
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1180. # [23:00] <paulrouget> thank you
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1182. # [23:00] <paul_irish> i'm not seeing the 403s right now
1183. # [23:02] <paulrouget> paul_irish: yeah, it's supposed to be fixe now
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1194. # [23:50] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/447925/Screenshots/41542jev0w7_.png
1195. # [23:50] <antonkovalyov> more users for jshint brought to you by crock
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1198. # [23:53] <paul_irish> ha
1199. # [23:53] <paul_irish> commit link plz?
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1201. # [23:54] <kataire> Actually I like jslint. Unlike pylint, which is full of shit.
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1203. # [23:57] <antonkovalyov> paul_irish, https://github.com/douglascrockford/JSLint/pull/29
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1205. # Session Close: Fri Mar 04 00:00:00 2011

The end :)