/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-03-04 / end

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1. # Session Start: Fri Mar 04 00:00:00 2011
2. # Session Ident: #html5
3. # [00:00] * Quits: felcom (~felcom@rrcs-71-43-19-2.se.biz.rr.com) (Quit: felcom)
4. # [00:00] <danielfilho> paul_irish: this month I'll be giving a talk about "why you already can use HTML5", and html5 boilerplate, modernizr and yepnope are huge stars on the presentation ;)
5. # [00:03] <paul_irish> danielfilho: woohooo
6. # [00:03] <paul_irish> awes
7. # [00:04] <danielfilho> :D
8. # [00:05] <kataire> What about selectivizr? I mean, sure, it's CSS3, but now that HTML is just called HTML and the W3C uses the HTML5 brand to sell the whole package...
9. # [00:06] <kataire> danielfilho: ^
10. # [00:07] <cheilmann> well, that is the issue for some people
11. # [00:07] <danielfilho> kataire: I mentioned those three, but will talk about more things. ;)
12. # [00:07] <cheilmann> I am writing my talk for confoo right now and I am tired of these arguments
13. # [00:08] <danielfilho> me too
14. # [00:08] <cheilmann> we want to make the web better so let's concentrate on the future
15. # [00:08] <danielfilho> btw Chris, saw a presentation of you talking about the term "html5" and "html"
16. # [00:08] <danielfilho> loved that
17. # [00:08] <cheilmann> its not as if we done things right in the past :)
18. # [00:08] <cheilmann> thanks
19. # [00:08] <danielfilho> it's like talking "web 2.0". gives me the impression that everything before it is obsolete. and it's not.
20. # [00:08] * Quits: tktiddle (~tim@cpc1-hari12-2-0-cust76.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
21. # [00:08] <kataire> Fair enough. I just found that it's become part of my default stack. I think I'll actually cut down on the amount of stuff I use from html5boilerplate and maybe use a few polyfills instead.
22. # [00:09] <cheilmann> start with good markup and a server side control
23. # [00:10] <cheilmann> then build on top
24. # [00:10] <cheilmann> give that to ie6 and test and apply for the rest
25. # [00:10] <kataire> Meh. I use the term HTML5 as a stand-in for Web 2.0 now, because that's what people expect. As for HTML -- I only specify the version when I talk about 4.01 and earlier.
26. # [00:10] <cheilmann> the issue with polyfills is that you also then have to test for legacy browser and make sure they perform well
27. # [00:10] <cheilmann> we shouldn't spend most of our time testing and not developing.
28. # [00:11] <kataire> cheilmann: I have all my scripts and stylesheets in conditional comments. All IE6 sees is universal-ie6-css.
29. # [00:11] <nimbupani> but you dont test for "legacy browsers"
30. # [00:11] <danielfilho> last week I was in a meeting to take a job as freelancer, and the guy said: "I want it in html5". Then I: "but what specifically you want?". he said: "I don't want flash on it. And want it to work on mobile phones". :(
31. # [00:12] <nimbupani> basically only test if a feature is available
32. # [00:12] <danielfilho> html5 already is a buzz word.
33. # [00:12] <cheilmann> nimbupani: you have to when you use a polyfill
34. # [00:12] <nimbupani> its not about legacy.
35. # [00:12] <cheilmann> if I use excanvas I should also test its performance
36. # [00:12] <cheilmann> as I shouldn't give old tech things it chokes on
37. # [00:12] <nimbupani> yeah i guess for some features browser sniffing is unavoidable.
38. # [00:13] <cheilmann> there was an interesting post about forms about browser sniffing
39. # [00:13] <kataire> cheilmann: I didn't say I'm using heavy duty polyfills. If I use canvas and can't provide a good fallback, no soup for you.
40. # [00:13] <danielfilho> to provide the complete experience, not only to render it properly on older browsers.
41. # [00:14] <cheilmann> http://united-coders.com/matthias-reuter/user-agent-sniffing-is-back
42. # [00:14] <kataire> cheilmann: You mean the datepicker issue? I agree with that. My solution is not to use the relevant input types until Chrome supports it.
43. # [00:14] <cheilmann> ^ has some very good points. If you want a popup calendar, the browser should do one
44. # [00:14] <cheilmann> kataire: and that is the sad part - half implementations were what always made me not use Opera in the past
45. # [00:15] <cheilmann> there were even stubs for some DOM methods in Opera5 which made it unsafe to use object detection.
46. # [00:15] <kataire> danielfilho: But that's the thing. The web is not a static medium. In most cases I don't plan to deliver the same experience to everyone. That's what fallbacks and "feature sniffing" (e.g. @media rules) are for.
47. # [00:15] * Quits: henrikkok (~henrikkok@3306ds3-amb.0.fullrate.dk) (Quit: Leaving.)
48. # [00:16] <kataire> cheilmann: I traditionally ignore Opera except for the stuff it implements. I do test for it these days, but it has improved enough that I never have to touch anything for it.
49. # [00:16] <cheilmann> as I said in a few talks before: If you expect your web site to look and work the same in every browser you are holding us back. The web's biggest feature is adaptability.
50. # [00:16] <kataire> Exactly.
51. # [00:16] <cheilmann> I call opera now the Douglas Crockford browser. If you do everything right but you could do one thing more correctly, Opera will moan about it
52. # [00:17] <cheilmann> That's why it is a great browser to test with last
53. # [00:17] * Joins: niftylettuce (~niftylett@h136.116.232.68.ip.windstream.net)
54. # [00:17] <kataire> cheilmann: Then what is IE6? The grandma?
55. # [00:18] <cheilmann> the alcoholic abusive uncle at the party
56. # [00:18] <kataire> Yay.
57. # [00:18] * Quits: komputes (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
58. # [00:18] <cheilmann> or as I called it before "the turd in the punchbowl of the web development party"
59. # [00:18] <danielfilho> HAHAHAHA
60. # [00:18] * Joins: Evet (~Evet@78.191.187.190)
61. # [00:18] * Quits: Evet (~Evet@78.191.187.190) (Changing host)
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63. # [00:18] <cheilmann> http://apps.facebook.com/jszelda/ ZELDA in HTML5/JS!!!!
64. # [00:18] <danielfilho> YEAH! Someone posted that link last night here.
65. # [00:19] <danielfilho> was xonecas I think
66. # [00:19] <jdalton> AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
67. # [00:19] <jdalton> zelda
68. # [00:19] <jdalton> gimmie
69. # [00:19] <danielfilho> and, of course, we've trolled him telling we are "Super Mario" kind of people. lol :D
70. # [00:19] <cheilmann> hehe
71. # [00:19] <cheilmann> fairies!
72. # [00:19] <kataire> I'm wondering whether I have rendering issues on a virtual WinXP with IE7 that don't exist in native IE7 and vice versa. It's not looking broken enough. Either that, or modernizr+selectivizr are better than I thought.
73. # [00:20] <xonecas> danielfilho: nope thats the work of grantg
74. # [00:20] <xonecas> I'm just a fan of t
75. # [00:20] <xonecas> *it
76. # [00:20] <danielfilho> oh, I'm old. memory fails sometimes.
77. # [00:20] <xonecas> np :-)
78. # [00:22] <kataire> Crap. It's getting late. The lady wants me to go to bed. I guess I better obey.
79. # [00:22] <cheilmann> pfft
80. # [00:22] <cheilmann> you talk to girls
81. # [00:22] <cheilmann> you can't come into our fort
82. # [00:22] <kataire> I even plan to marry 'em O_o
83. # [00:22] <kataire> Well, not all of them.
84. # [00:22] <danielfilho> girls? what is that?
85. # [00:23] <kataire> danielfilho: like us but softer, squishier and they smell better.
86. # [00:23] <danielfilho> some new polyfill?
87. # [00:23] <danielfilho> oh. I thing I get it.
88. # [00:24] <danielfilho> do they have wireless broadband connection?
89. # [00:24] <danielfilho> ok. stopped.
90. # [00:24] * kataire is now known as kataire|Zzz
91. # [00:25] * Joins: grantg_ (42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15)
92. # [00:25] <paul_irish> cheilmann, danielfilho, jdalton: grantg from this channel made it. :)
93. # [00:25] <cheilmann> yeah http://www.grantgalitz.org/gtfo/zelda/
94. # [00:25] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
95. # [00:25] <paul_irish> oh hai grantg_
96. # [00:26] <paul_irish> kataire|Zzz: ill help you tmw with it
97. # [00:26] * Quits: figital (~figital@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
98. # [00:26] <kataire|Zzz> kataire|Zzz: With what?
99. # [00:27] <paul_irish> with your crazy VMs andor modernizr being amazing
100. # [00:27] <kataire|Zzz> Oh, thanks.
101. # [00:27] <daleharvey> yo so anyone using a sammy like js framework?
102. # [00:28] <benv> i used sammy for something recently
103. # [00:28] <benv> nothing huge
104. # [00:28] * Quits: JKarsrud (~JKarsrud@178.74.12.26) (Quit: Leaving.)
105. # [00:29] <daleharvey> im trying to think of a nice way to teardown events
106. # [00:29] <niftylettuce> smone please help me debug this in pre-IE (6-8) ... the dropdown doesn't work at all, I think it has something to do with positioning and z-index... argh @ http://jsfiddle.net/KfLwT/
107. # [00:29] <daleharvey> like I have page x, page y, and they have different events on them
108. # [00:29] <benv> and when you leave a page, something happens?
109. # [00:29] <benv> like, said teardown event fires
110. # [00:30] <daleharvey> nah, like I have a button or an onchange, that can only happen on page x
111. # [00:30] <benv> o
112. # [00:30] * Quits: vyvea (~vyvea@78.63.114.251) (Quit: Leaving)
113. # [00:30] <daleharvey> right now I just delegate to body, but that slow and pretty nasty
114. # [00:31] <kataire|Zzz> paul_irish: Oh, just for reference: What GMT offset are you in?
115. # [00:32] <benv> daleharvey: so, i wrapped like every button in a <form> and used POST routes w/ sammy
116. # [00:32] <grantg_> cheilmann: oh noes
117. # [00:32] <benv> daleharvey: instead of event handlers
118. # [00:32] <grantg_> http://apps.facebook.com/jszelda/ for that
119. # [00:32] <cheilmann> yeah
120. # [00:32] <cheilmann> time to add a framebreaker
121. # [00:32] <benv> i wouldn't say its the best way to go about it, but ... <shrug> was kind of fooling around
122. # [00:34] <danielfilho> kataire|Zzz paul's got his own timezone. he works 62 hours each day.
123. # [00:34] * Quits: mitch05 (~IanWizard@c-98-237-207-104.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
124. # [00:34] <cheilmann> paul's in California
125. # [00:34] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
126. # [00:34] <cheilmann> GMT+8
127. # [00:34] <cheilmann> err -8
128. # [00:34] <paul_irish> ^
129. # [00:34] <grantg_> Stop right-clicking to find out what's in the iframe!
130. # [00:34] <grantg_> :/
131. # [00:34] <grantg_> It's /gtfo/ for a reason.
132. # [00:34] <cheilmann> ah :)
133. # [00:35] <cheilmann> people told me off on twitter for not giving credit where its due
134. # [00:35] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-5-146-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
135. # [00:35] <cheilmann> maybe add a text to facebook :)
136. # [00:35] <grantg_> cheilmann: http://apps.facebook.com/jspokemonred/
137. # [00:35] <cheilmann> niftylettuce hover menus are the devil's work
138. # [00:35] <grantg_> http://apps.facebook.com/supermariolandtwo/
139. # [00:36] <cheilmann> not keyboard accessible and friggin annoying for everybody else
140. # [00:36] <niftylettuce> xonecas: can you preeze help with that dropdown sh*t
141. # [00:37] <niftylettuce> xonecas: ten dolla fo yo help preeze
142. # [00:37] <paulrouget> paul_irish: is there a Chrome IRC channel?
143. # [00:37] <grantg_> #chromium ?
144. # [00:37] <grantg_> #chromium-support ?
145. # [00:37] <paulrouget> ok :)
146. # [00:38] * Joins: figital (~figital@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
147. # [00:39] <grantg_> damnit yvg
148. # [00:39] <grantg_> http://twitter.com/#!/yvg/status/43450799682093057
149. # [00:39] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/foSp3T @yvg: @F1LT3R even better without Facebook http://www.grantgalitz.org/gtfo/zelda/ :)
150. # [00:40] <grantg_> the hammer comes down
151. # [00:40] <grantg_> ...
152. # [00:41] * Joins: jacine (~jacine@drupal.org/user/88931/view)
153. # [00:42] <cheilmann> yeah your plan is buggered
154. # [00:43] <cheilmann> unless you just redirect the folder and include the file in the iframe
155. # [00:43] <cheilmann> sorry about this - I thought people nicked your work to be famous on facebook
156. # [00:44] <xonecas> niftylettuce: whats up?
157. # [00:44] <grantg_> lololol
158. # [00:44] <niftylettuce> xonecas: hey can we chat on the phone real quick? quick CSS/JS question
159. # [00:45] <grantg_> cheilmann: Stop haxing my iframes. :/
160. # [00:45] <grantg_> heh
161. # [00:45] <xonecas> nifty google talk, I can't talk on the phone right now
162. # [00:45] <cheilmann> niftylettuce without your CSS being converted from whatever that is (SASS?) to CSS debugging is going to be guesswork
163. # [00:45] <paulrouget> grantg_: when do write an article on hacks.mozilla.org about your work?
164. # [00:45] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: davidwalsh)
165. # [00:46] <grantg_> nope
166. # [00:46] <grantg_> not a single article
167. # [00:46] <niftylettuce> cheilmann: that is SCSS -- so it's valid
168. # [00:46] <paulrouget> grantg_: oh
169. # [00:46] <grantg_> U Mad JS community?
170. # [00:46] <grantg_> LO
171. # [00:46] <grantg_> :P
172. # [00:46] <xonecas> cmon grantg tell us your secrets ahah
173. # [00:46] <cheilmann> it is valid but not applied in JSFiddle?
174. # [00:47] <paulrouget> grantg_: ok :) I'm gonna have to write it myself and pretend I wrote that code.
175. # [00:47] <grantg_> I'm gonna make you all reverse engineer the GB-Z80 to find out how it works. :P
176. # [00:47] <paul_irish> hahaha
177. # [00:47] <grantg_> lololololololol
178. # [00:48] <xonecas> hahah
179. # [00:48] * grantg_ forgot to put up kirby onto facebook
180. # [00:48] <grantg_> sec
181. # [00:50] * Quits: Erkan (thend@88.254.37.24) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
182. # [00:50] <cheilmann> you do that and I hack ALL your iframes
183. # [00:50] * Joins: Erkan (thend@88.254.37.24)
184. # [00:50] <cheilmann> I got the mad h4xx0r skills
185. # [00:51] <cheilmann> for $250 I will send you my s3cr3t t00lZ
186. # [00:51] <cheilmann> .oO(firebug)
187. # [00:51] <xonecas> grantg_: isn't nintendo gonna be pissed?
188. # [00:51] <grantg_> it was supposed to be a small thing on FB
189. # [00:52] <cheilmann> nah they got good lawyers
190. # [00:52] <grantg_> not to leak the /gtfo/ dir
191. # [00:52] <grantg_> damnit people, it was supposed to be private
192. # [00:52] <grantg_> meanwhile, http://apps.facebook.com/kirbydreamlandtwo/
193. # [00:52] * Quits: Erkan (thend@88.254.37.24) (Client Quit)
194. # [00:52] <cheilmann> now there is a sentence you hear a lot when it comes to publications on facebook
195. # [00:53] <danielfilho> in one hand, grantg_ is complaining that it must be private... in other, he's on fire and can't stop publishing more and more things! :D
196. # [00:53] <grantg_> lololol
197. # [00:53] <grantg_> danielfilho: And jsNES still is up.
198. # [00:53] <grantg_> :P
199. # [00:53] <xonecas> grantg_: I don't think the gtfo accro is working, you'll need to be more explicit :-p
200. # [00:53] <grantg_> lol
201. # [00:53] * Joins: IanWizard (~IanWizard@c-98-237-207-104.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
202. # [00:54] * grantg_ 's favorite GB color palette for kirby is to do down + Z
203. # [00:54] <grantg_> on startup when the logo is flashing
204. # [00:54] <danielfilho> well, see you guys tomorrow.
205. # [00:54] <grantg_> see yah
206. # [00:55] * Joins: Erkan (thend@78.167.134.244)
207. # [00:56] <xonecas> sleep good
208. # [00:56] <xonecas> I miss Brazil
209. # [00:56] <grantg_> damn I need to blog this
210. # [00:56] <grantg_> Was supposed to back in september last year. :/
211. # [00:56] * Quits: dpy (~Marcel@d66172.upc-d.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
212. # [00:57] <paul_irish> yuppp
213. # [00:57] <xonecas> do it on a single long scrolling page like, hum, paul_irish's project pages :-P He's even got a template for you to start with :-P
214. # [00:58] <grantg_> heh
215. # [00:58] <grantg_> xonecas: I haven't blogged about it at all
216. # [00:58] <grantg_> Doing so would require me to shit out a zillion at once now
217. # [00:58] <grantg_> audio + video + cpu + integration
218. # [00:58] <grantg_> saves
219. # [00:58] <grantg_> offline storage
220. # [00:59] <xonecas> sounds like you got your work cut out
221. # [00:59] <grantg_> memory subsystem
222. # [00:59] <xonecas> did you comment your code?
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225. # [00:59] <grantg_> a little
226. # [00:59] <grantg_> oh
227. # [00:59] <grantg_> and typed arrays
228. # [00:59] <xonecas> throw the code as the docs :-P
229. # [00:59] <xonecas> done!
230. # [00:59] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Not sure if my PM reached you or if you're taken up, just letting you know :)
231. # [00:59] <grantg_> not enough comments
232. # [01:00] <grantg_> See https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online/blob/master/js/GameBoyCore.js
233. # [01:00] <xonecas> well, be happy to know that tonight while you're writing the blog post, I'm playing mario on my 30" monitor at a wooping 2560x1600 resolution. Thank you grantg_, thank you!
234. # [01:01] <grantg_> lololololololololololol
235. # [01:01] <grantg_> Too many lols
236. # [01:01] <xonecas> :-)
237. # [01:02] <xonecas> man you're responsible for my recent lack of productivity in the evenings...
238. # [01:02] <grantg_> too bad scaling it to 2560x1600 slows chrome the fuck down
239. # [01:03] <grantg_> only firefox 4 handles that res ok with it
240. # [01:03] <grantg_> :/
241. # [01:03] <grantg_> at least for me
242. # [01:03] <grantg_> xonecas: At least I didn't lose you to pokemon
243. # [01:04] <grantg_> http://apps.facebook.com/jspokemonred/ and we'll see you in three months
244. # [01:04] <xonecas> ahaha
245. # [01:04] <xonecas> yeah must use ff4 for the big screen
246. # [01:04] <xonecas> chrome works for about 5m
247. # [01:04] <grantg_> heh
248. # [01:04] <BrianBlakely> grantg_: Have you tried accelerating the canvas in about:flags (Chrome)?
249. # [01:04] * Quits: hubble (~hubble@173-165-61-105-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: hubble)
250. # [01:05] <grantg_> BrianBlakely: No diff
251. # [01:05] <xonecas> aw :(
252. # [01:05] <BrianBlakely> None too cool
253. # [01:05] <grantg_> chrome slows down when computing putImageData for me
254. # [01:05] <xonecas> are you using requestAnimationFrame?
255. # [01:05] <grantg_> yes
256. # [01:05] <grantg_> both moz and webkit
257. # [01:06] <xonecas> damn
258. # [01:06] <grantg_> ?
259. # [01:06] <xonecas> I was hoping for better performance :-P
260. # [01:06] * Joins: jochen___ (~jochen@nat/google/x-onrexqhjgdpbhxda)
261. # [01:06] <xonecas> not that I have any complaints
262. # [01:06] * grantg_ needs to land the webgl patch still
263. # [01:07] <grantg_> everything is canvas 2d putImageData still
264. # [01:08] <BrianBlakely> grantg_: Does using WebGL amount to an insane performance boost?
265. # [01:08] <xonecas> How long have you been working on this?
266. # [01:08] <grantg_> for blitting
267. # [01:08] <grantg_> xonecas: Late last july
268. # [01:08] * Joins: _jdalton (~johndavid@cpe-75-187-124-204.insight.res.rr.com)
269. # [01:08] <xonecas> man, amazing
270. # [01:08] <grantg_> Same with JS GameBoy Advance
271. # [01:08] * Quits: jdalton (~johndavid@cpe-75-187-124-204.insight.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
272. # [01:08] <grantg_> :/
273. # [01:09] * Quits: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-krlwxucrsexhndaq) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
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277. # [01:10] <grantg_> xonecas: Chrome takes more time to blit my CanvasPixelArray than to run the CPU emulation
278. # [01:11] <grantg_> Makes me sad
279. # [01:11] <BrianBlakely> grantg_: You know what would be really fun? Making a PSone emulator? You should totally do that >_>
280. # [01:11] <grantg_> lol
281. # [01:11] * Parts: IanWizard (~IanWizard@c-98-237-207-104.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) ("Leaving")
282. # [01:11] * Joins: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-afjkcwozqnvgridv)
283. # [01:11] <cheilmann> fuck it - Xbox simulator
284. # [01:11] * Quits: jochen___ (~jochen@nat/google/x-onrexqhjgdpbhxda) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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286. # [01:12] <grantg_> BrianBlakely: That's run people's computers out of memory.
287. # [01:12] <grantg_> cheilmann: Wii?
288. # [01:12] <cheilmann> then you also need to provide the arduino specs for controllers
289. # [01:12] <cheilmann> :)
290. # [01:13] <grantg_> heh
291. # [01:13] <grantg_> I'd map every keyboard button
292. # [01:13] <grantg_> you'd run out of room
293. # [01:13] <cheilmann> A friend of mine goes around pubs and takes photos and videos of pinball machines and then converts them to mame roms
294. # [01:13] <grantg_> lolwut
295. # [01:13] <cheilmann> labour of love as the last company repairing them went bankrupt some time ago
296. # [01:15] * Quits: daveluke (~davidluke@cpe-72-225-202-168.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: daveluke)
297. # [01:15] <grantg_> paul_irish: The chrome guys gotta fix that "rendering taking longer than the damn CPU emulation in JS" situation going on.
298. # [01:17] <juniour_high> paul_irish: aren't you one of the chrome guys?
299. # [01:20] <xonecas> grantg_: I want wii emulator, I *need* mario galaxy
300. # [01:20] <xonecas> think of it as medical research (for me)
301. # [01:20] <grantg_> xonecas: Tell me when we get 1 thz CPUs
302. # [01:20] <grantg_> [terahertz]
303. # [01:21] <xonecas> eheh, na, you can do it, with webGL :-P
304. # [01:21] <xonecas> you're a smart guy!
305. # [01:21] <grantg_> The PowerPC CPU?
306. # [01:22] <grantg_> It ain't all video
307. # [01:22] <grantg_> It's video+audio+cpu
308. # [01:23] <grantg_> xonecas: Though I do see Windows 95 in a JS emulator
309. # [01:23] <grantg_> Or Windows 3.11
310. # [01:23] <xonecas> yeah, they're out there :-)
311. # [01:24] <paul_irish> juniour_high: yes
312. # [01:24] <paul_irish> grantg_: did you try out requestAnimationFrame btw
313. # [01:24] <grantg_> yeah
314. # [01:25] <grantg_> paul_irish: Just calling putImageData takes more than 30 ms to render in chrome
315. # [01:25] <juniour_high> paul_irish: I'm sorry, but you're just impressive :)
316. # [01:25] <grantg_> chrome is slow as hell with rendering putImageData
317. # [01:25] <grantg_> [insert no hardware acceleration for putimagedata complaint here]
318. # [01:26] <BrianBlakely> Going to Asia for 2 weeks, see ya HTML5!
319. # [01:26] <paul_irish> hapy hapy
320. # [01:26] <grantg_> bye bye
321. # [01:29] <paul_irish> juniour_high: ♥
322. # [01:29] * Joins: escv (~anisotrop@ip-118-90-108-244.xdsl.xnet.co.nz)
323. # [01:30] <paul_irish> grantg_: i dont really want to go into the optimization wormhole with you in particular but.. you're putting it to integer pixel values?
324. # [01:30] <grantg_> yeah
325. # [01:31] <paul_irish> k
326. # [01:31] <paul_irish> i'm slowly compiling a bigass list of canvas optimizations
327. # [01:32] <paul_irish> but i know that chrome is slower than FF with putimagedata to non-integer offsets
328. # [01:34] <grantg_> How about adding a -webkit-crisp-edges to image-rendering
329. # [01:34] <grantg_> for nearest-neighbor scaling
330. # [01:34] <grantg_> like what firefox's -moz-crisp-edges does'
331. # [01:35] * Quits: BrianBlakely (~Adium@208.253.25.162) (Quit: Leaving.)
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339. # [01:41] <paul_irish> bot-t: tell chriseppstein https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/pull/354#issuecomment-832423
340. # [01:41] <bot-t> paul_irish, Okay.
341. # [01:42] * Quits: cheilmann (~cheilmann@78.149.171.136) (Quit: cheilmann)
342. # [01:45] * Quits: wizL (~wizl@93-103-189-50.dynamic.t-2.net)
343. # [01:47] <mikesusz> hrm i want to ask chriseppstein to add IE filter gradients to compass-style :)
344. # [01:48] <paulrouget> paulrouget: Does it work for you now ? https://mozillademos.org/demos/remixingreality/demo.html
345. # [01:48] <paul_irish> lol
346. # [01:48] * Quits: Senix (~look@unaffiliated/look) (Remote host closed the connection)
347. # [01:49] <paul_irish> WORKS!!!!
348. # [01:50] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
349. # [01:51] <xonecas> YY
350. # [01:51] <xonecas> so cool too!
351. # [01:53] * Parts: escv (~anisotrop@ip-118-90-108-244.xdsl.xnet.co.nz)
352. # [01:56] <paul_irish> paulrouget: what was it?
353. # [01:56] <paul_irish> also your /dashboard is soooo good
354. # [01:56] <paul_irish> love it
355. # [01:57] <paulrouget> paul_irish: great
356. # [01:57] <paulrouget> paul_irish: My guess (@rem' guess actually) is a bad-encoded ogg video
357. # [01:57] <paulrouget> paul_irish: now I use WebM. Works better.
358. # [01:59] <paul_irish> hooray for webm
359. # [01:59] <xonecas> hooray :-P
360. # [02:00] * Evet_ is now known as Evet
361. # [02:00] * Quits: Evet (~Evet@78.191.141.49) (Changing host)
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363. # [02:00] * Joins: realityking (~rouven@f049180156.adsl.alicedsl.de)
364. # [02:02] <paulrouget> :)
365. # [02:04] * Joins: grantgalitz (42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15)
366. # [02:04] <grantgalitz> Is codepo8 here or something?
367. # [02:05] <grantgalitz> paul_irish: I think I'm getting pranked.
368. # [02:05] <xonecas> grantgalitz: are your apps exploding on fb?
369. # [02:05] <grantgalitz> :/
370. # [02:05] <grantgalitz> possibly
371. # [02:05] <grantgalitz> http://twitter.com/#!/codepo8/status/43475488261423105
372. # [02:05] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/g9l1HL @codepo8: Nobody every check out the stuff @grant_galitz is doing. He is terrible and you shouldn't check his website! .oO(talented b*stard)
373. # [02:05] <grantgalitz> oh god oh god
374. # [02:05] * grantgalitz waits for the flood
375. # [02:06] * foca_ is now known as foca
376. # [02:06] <xonecas> what a nice compliment
377. # [02:06] <grantgalitz> In response to http://twitter.com/#!/grant_galitz/status/43475115589111808
378. # [02:06] <grantgalitz> and
379. # [02:06] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/e3XAPB @grant_galitz: @codepo8 heh [insert Reddit okay guy face]
380. # [02:07] <grantgalitz> http://twitter.com/#!/grant_galitz/status/43474430965465088
381. # [02:07] <xonecas> the guy has 10 000 followers, yeah open the flood gates :-P
382. # [02:07] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/geQ30l @grant_galitz: @codepo8 Not helping with keeping this Zelda thing on the down-low. :/
383. # [02:08] <grantgalitz> "There's a storm brewing"
384. # [02:08] <paul_irish> grantgalitz: haahha
385. # [02:08] <grantgalitz> wait
386. # [02:08] <paul_irish> grantgalitz: cheillman is codepo8
387. # [02:08] <grantgalitz> oh god
388. # [02:08] <xonecas> lol
389. # [02:08] * grantgalitz waits for the foodgates from hell to open
390. # [02:09] <grantgalitz> wait
391. # [02:09] <grantgalitz> someone is using @grantg?
392. # [02:09] <grantgalitz> ugh
393. # [02:10] <grantgalitz> cheilmann == codepo8, damn I'm slow
394. # [02:11] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@c-24-5-146-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: zzzzz)
395. # [02:11] <grantgalitz> what ever
396. # [02:11] <grantgalitz> People can be anything online
397. # [02:11] <grantgalitz> heh
398. # [02:11] <grantgalitz> those people who say they're women on IRC are really men
399. # [02:12] <paul_irish> nimbupani is a woman.
400. # [02:12] <grantgalitz> that's an internet rule I think. :P
401. # [02:12] <paul_irish> so is jacine.
402. # [02:12] <grantgalitz> paul_irish: guilty until proven innocent
403. # [02:12] <grantgalitz> lol
404. # [02:12] <nimbupani> umm?
405. # [02:12] <jacine> heh.
406. # [02:12] <nimbupani> you know what turns off women from IRC?
407. # [02:12] <grantgalitz> An internet joke
408. # [02:12] * jacine is not a man :P
409. # [02:12] * Quits: antonkovalyov (~antonkova@75-101-56-240.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
410. # [02:12] <nimbupani> men claiming there are no women on IRC
411. # [02:12] <nimbupani> pls its a joke that is dead and boring
412. # [02:13] <jacine> tell 'em nimbupani! :D
413. # [02:13] <grantgalitz> nimbupani: Some rules are still relevanty
414. # [02:13] <nimbupani> and i am really tired of explaining myself really. grantgalitz
415. # [02:13] <grantgalitz> *relevant
416. # [02:13] <grantgalitz> rule 34
417. # [02:13] <grantgalitz> It's a joke
418. # [02:13] <grantgalitz> :P
419. # [02:13] * Joins: vanmik (~derek@109.165.5.250)
420. # [02:13] <nimbupani> its not a joke that is funny any more. like black face jokes.
421. # [02:14] <nimbupani> so please stop making them.
422. # [02:14] * grantgalitz thinks half the IRC users on here are cats secretly pretending to be people.
423. # [02:14] <grantgalitz> must explain all the lols
424. # [02:14] <grantgalitz> nimbupani: heh
425. # [02:15] <paul_irish> nimbupani: did you see https://mozillademos.org/demos/dashboard/demo.html in minefield?
426. # [02:15] <paul_irish> it is hawtttt
427. # [02:15] <nimbupani> nooo
428. # [02:15] * nimbupani downloads
429. # [02:15] * grantgalitz wants to fork it
430. # [02:15] <grantgalitz> and add the emulator under the perf section
431. # [02:18] <grantgalitz> paul_irish: Best tweet yet: http://twitter.com/#!/grant_galitz/status/43479119169716224
432. # [02:18] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fpFEK6 @grant_galitz: Please wait while fart loads: ███████████████████████████░
433. # [02:18] <paul_irish> fart jokes.
434. # [02:19] <nimbupani> "Submited! Thank you."
435. # [02:21] <grantgalitz> zarro boogs with the fart, proceed to release candidate
436. # [02:21] <xonecas> lol nice grantgalitz
437. # [02:21] <nimbupani> its pretty okay paul_irish but its not mindblowing
438. # [02:22] <paul_irish> iloveit
439. # [02:22] <nimbupani> i dont. its too much text.
440. # [02:22] <paul_irish> its a lot of hoverint
441. # [02:22] <paul_irish> hovering. who reads?
442. # [02:22] <paul_irish> you dont have minefield installed?
443. # [02:22] <grantgalitz> fart has crashed, setting harblocker on fart JIT
444. # [02:22] <nimbupani> I AM ON MINEFIELD
445. # [02:22] <nimbupani> and hovering
446. # [02:22] <paul_irish> so much hover
447. # [02:22] <nimbupani> i see the cool shit but its not that impressive >_>
448. # [02:23] <nimbupani> funny the contenteditable has no contenteditable
449. # [02:24] <nimbupani> multiple bgs has no multiple bgs
450. # [02:24] <grantgalitz> nimbupani: Trolling at its finest
451. # [02:24] <tw2113> i had a lot of those work, but some definitely didn't
452. # [02:24] <nimbupani> well there needs to be some consistency
453. # [02:25] <tw2113> even with beta 12, but linux may be a bit funky
454. # [02:25] <nimbupani> whats the point of making the user hover everytime if there is no reward?
455. # [02:25] <grantgalitz> bot-t: tell cheilmann Zelda 4 lyfe
456. # [02:25] <bot-t> grantgalitz, Okay.
457. # [02:25] <grantgalitz> heh
458. # [02:25] <nimbupani> or make the demos default and provide the text on hover coz nobody is reading the text anyway
459. # [02:25] <grantgalitz> nimbupani: Multiple levels of trolling
460. # [02:26] <nimbupani> o good i can fork it on github.
461. # [02:28] <grantgalitz> lol
462. # [02:28] <grantgalitz> got kicked from #reddit
463. # [02:28] <paul_irish> you? kicked? nahhhh
464. # [02:33] * Quits: niftylettuce (~niftylett@h136.116.232.68.ip.windstream.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
465. # [02:35] <grantgalitz> paul_irish: Don't underestimate the power of being bored with sugar at hand.
466. # [02:37] * Quits: grantgalitz (42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15) (Quit: Page closed)
467. # [02:38] <paul_irish> bro's got a lot of sugar.
468. # [02:39] * Joins: Greko (~Greko@83.149.9.113)
469. # [02:41] * Quits: toinso (~toinso@unaffiliated/toinso) (Quit: Leaving)
470. # [02:46] <paul_irish> bot-t: tell Michael http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/03/03/disney-acquires-gaming-engine-startup-to-build-html5-games-outside-of-app-stores/ woowoo!
471. # [02:46] <bot-t> paul_irish, Okay.
472. # [02:51] <Greko> Hey, how to set meta charset to utf-8?
473. # [02:52] <Greko> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" /> does not validate :(
474. # [02:53] <paul_irish> <meta charset="utf-8">
475. # [02:53] <Greko> nice
476. # [02:53] <Greko> thanks
477. # [02:54] <paulrouget> I love how we mange to make things "shorter" in html5
478. # [02:54] <Greko> yep
479. # [02:54] <Greko> but I don't really like that html5 warn you when using align on divs
480. # [02:54] <paul_irish> you use align?
481. # [02:55] <Greko> yes
482. # [02:55] <Greko> why not?
483. # [02:55] <paul_irish> awww
484. # [02:55] <Greko> :D
485. # [02:55] <Greko> text-align; margin; doesn't work sometimes
486. # [02:55] <Greko> who know why
487. # [02:55] <nimbupani> they should
488. # [02:56] <paulrouget> It's funny, because I started writing HTML 2 years ago. So I started with HTML5 and CSS3. So I don't really know these stuff (align attribute for example)
489. # [02:56] <Greko> but don't
490. # [02:56] <paulrouget> I think I'm lucky :)
491. # [02:56] <nimbupani> if they dont you should find out why rather than use align
492. # [02:57] <paulrouget> Greko: if you have a test case...
493. # [02:57] <Greko> yeah-yeah kill dozen of time to just find a meanless leak..
494. # [02:57] <Greko> paulrouget - you're lucky for sure
495. # [02:57] <Greko> but no cases at this moment
496. # [02:58] <Greko> tthx for help
497. # [02:58] <nimbupani> it usually should take about 15 mins at the most.
498. # [02:58] * Quits: daveluke (~davidluke@cpe-72-225-202-168.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: daveluke)
499. # [02:58] <nimbupani> if you have an example i can take a look
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503. # [03:03] <retlehs> paulrouget: so i guess table layouts and ie6 were never issues for you either? :) you are lucky.. i tell that to people i know that have started recently as well all the time
504. # [03:05] <Greko> retlehs. We seems to be the guru
505. # [03:05] <Greko> )
506. # [03:05] * Joins: themiddleman_itv (~robot@c-67-186-244-162.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
507. # [03:06] <paulrouget> retlehs: no, not really :)
508. # [03:06] * Joins: boaz_ (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
509. # [03:06] <paulrouget> I'm a cheater. A lot of people consider me as an expert. Today, I looked on gogle how to do an anchor link.
510. # [03:07] <retlehs> ahah
511. # [03:07] <paul_irish> :P
512. # [03:07] <Greko> rolf
513. # [03:07] * Quits: ben_h (~ben@128.250.195.186) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
514. # [03:07] <retlehs> Greko: text-align: margin doesn't exist
515. # [03:07] <retlehs> you mean justify?
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518. # [03:08] <Greko> yeah I use justify:text-align; to make it all work
519. # [03:10] <chromedFiz> 0.o
520. # [03:10] <Greko> and it do when I drink more wisky than i should
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532. # [03:30] <shichuan> is Peter` ppk?
533. # [03:30] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Disconnected by services)
534. # [03:30] * boaz_ is now known as boaz
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543. # [03:50] <paul_irish> nope. but they're both dutch!
544. # [03:50] <paul_irish> peter` is http://peter.sh
545. # [03:51] * Joins: themiddleman_itv (~robot@166-70-144-226.ip.xmission.com)
546. # [03:51] <shichuan> lol, ok :)
547. # [03:53] * Joins: grantg_ (42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15)
548. # [03:54] <grantg_> figitial: your nick became f|i|g|i|t|a|l to me after watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV-7J5y1TQc&feature=related
549. # [03:55] <grantg_> DEC FTW
550. # [03:58] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@rrcs-173-198-32-146.west.biz.rr.com)
551. # [03:59] <grantg_> paul_irish: I need to head over to #vba-m and help them out
552. # [03:59] <grantg_> VisualBoyAdvance needs a few accuracy and optimizations patches
553. # [04:07] <grantg_> cgcardona: Going over the machine code of pokemon red
554. # [04:07] <grantg_> lol sprite update procedure
555. # [04:08] <grantg_> they used mode 0 wrong
556. # [04:08] <grantg_> game freak: UR doing it wrong
557. # [04:08] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@rrcs-173-198-32-146.west.biz.rr.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
558. # [04:11] <cgcardona> nice
559. # [04:12] <grantg_> they didn't fix their routines it seems until silver/gold
560. # [04:12] <grantg_> lol
561. # [04:12] <grantg_> LCD Controller STAT Mode CPU IRQs: Game Freak, you're clearly doing it wrong.
562. # [04:22] * Quits: benv (~benv@75-101-56-240.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: Bye!)
563. # [04:29] <grantg_> brb
564. # [04:29] <grantg_> metroid coming up
565. # [04:30] <grantg_> wario land as well
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568. # [04:32] <tw2113> woot
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571. # [04:59] <paul_irish> http://blog.aleksandarrodic.com/?p=60
572. # [05:00] <paul_irish> :o
573. # [05:02] <paul_irish> http://www.mangrove.nl/lab/threejs/
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580. # [05:18] <nimbupani> HAWWT
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584. # [05:20] <niftylettuce> scrolling up I see many women vs men flamin'
585. # [05:20] <niftylettuce> we all know nimbupani is a flamingo, paul is a hot pink crayon, and grant is a crocodile
586. # [05:20] * niftylettuce SPOTS A WILD PSD
587. # [05:21] <paul_irish> sounds about right.
588. # [05:21] <nimbupani> hahahaaha
589. # [05:21] <cgcardona> wow that link is amazing
590. # [05:21] <paul_irish> which
591. # [05:22] <cgcardona> the threejs
592. # [05:22] <paul_irish> hey heads up.. me and nimbu will be rocking different nicks tomorrow. oldschool ones.
593. # [05:22] <cgcardona> any clue on what they'll be?
594. # [05:23] <nimbupani> hahaha thats for you to find out :)
595. # [05:23] <niftylettuce> why diff nicks?
596. # [05:23] <nimbupani> its a game
597. # [05:24] <paul_irish> not so much a game as a DAY
598. # [05:24] <paul_irish> special day
599. # [05:24] <uf0> paul_irish: in your template you're using @media in the main style sheet style.css
600. # [05:25] <uf0> why not seperate it?
601. # [05:25] <paul_irish> fewer http requests is the #1 thing to make your site faster.
602. # [05:25] <uf0> i read iphone will load the images up if it's all in one, and it won't be it's seperate
603. # [05:25] <paul_irish> oh those.
604. # [05:26] <uf0> am I wrong here?
605. # [05:26] <paul_irish> you'd still have that problem. iOS will load all background images in the cascade.
606. # [05:26] <paul_irish> so even if you use a separate file to define your mobile overrides
607. # [05:26] <paul_irish> it'd still read the earlier ones and grab those
608. # [05:26] <paul_irish> unless you did the yiibu style mobile-first thing
609. # [05:26] <nimbupani> yeah
610. # [05:27] <paul_irish> with a respond.js polyfill
611. # [05:27] <paul_irish> man that's starting to make more sense to me
612. # [05:27] <nimbupani> FINALLY
613. # [05:27] <nimbupani> GAWD
614. # [05:27] <uf0> interesting, cool so I'll so do all in one
615. # [05:27] <uf0> i never heard of yiibu style
616. # [05:27] <paul_irish> still too early for h5bp
617. # [05:27] <nimbupani> ?g yiibu
618. # [05:27] <bot-t> nimbupani, Yiibu - Lovingly crafted mobile experiences - http://yiibu.com/
619. # [05:27] <paul_irish> bryan reiger style
620. # [05:27] <nimbupani> view source uf0
621. # [05:27] <nimbupani> and look at their css
622. # [05:28] <paul_irish> ?g bryan reiger slideshare
623. # [05:28] <bot-t> paul_irish, Rethinking the Mobile Web by Yiibu - SlideShare - http://www.slideshare.net/bryanrieger/rethinking-the-mobile-web-by-yiibu
624. # [05:28] <paul_irish> thats it ^
625. # [05:28] <nimbupani> yahh but the yiibu css contains the meat of what that presentatin is :P
626. # [05:28] <nimbupani> presentation*
627. # [05:28] <paul_irish> rightright
628. # [05:28] <paul_irish> they combo
629. # [05:28] <uf0> so you guys are advocating for this instead of your html5boilerplate?
630. # [05:28] <uf0> way
631. # [05:28] <nimbupani> no no uf0!
632. # [05:28] <uf0> for mobile taht is*****
633. # [05:28] <uf0> that is**
634. # [05:28] <nimbupani> its not different
635. # [05:29] <nimbupani> its just a different way of doing your author styles
636. # [05:29] <nimbupani> the base styles are the same.
637. # [05:29] <uf0> ohhh
638. # [05:29] <nimbupani> basically when you customize boilerplate css, yiibu advocates you do so for mobile first
639. # [05:29] <nimbupani> in the sense target the least capable device first
640. # [05:29] <nimbupani> and use media queries to target more capable ones
641. # [05:30] <uf0> oh I see so it's backwards
642. # [05:30] <uf0> hmm..
643. # [05:31] <nimbupani> only IE8- cannot understand mediaqueries
644. # [05:31] <nimbupani> so you could use respond.js as a polyfill for it.
645. # [05:31] <nimbupani> though i dont see why that is necessary :)
646. # [05:32] <uf0> why is it not necessary?
647. # [05:32] <uf0> and what is a polyfill
648. # [05:32] <nimbupani> ?g modernizr github polyfill
649. # [05:32] <bot-t> nimbupani, HTML5 Cross browser Polyfills - GitHub - https://github.com/Modernizr/Modernizr/wiki/HTML5-Cross-browser-Polyfills
650. # [05:32] <shichuan> i start to realize respond.js is very basic
651. # [05:32] <nimbupani> yeah it def is
652. # [05:33] <paul_irish> ?g respond.js
653. # [05:33] <bot-t> paul_irish, scottjehl/Respond - GitHub - https://github.com/scottjehl/Respond
654. # [05:33] <uf0> oh that's great, so media queries can work in all ies with that script?
655. # [05:33] <uf0> as I read..
656. # [05:33] <paul_irish> yarup
657. # [05:33] <nimbupani> yeah
658. # [05:34] <uf0> awesome
659. # [05:34] <paul_irish> even has a resize debouncer. nice
660. # [05:34] <shichuan> windows mobile uses ie7
661. # [05:34] <uf0> so brings up another question.. I viewed source for yiibu
662. # [05:34] <shichuan> but they did mention they gonna use ie9 soon
663. # [05:34] <uf0> and saw this:
664. # [05:34] <uf0> .<meta charset="utf-8">
665. # [05:34] <uf0> and this. <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
666. # [05:34] <nimbupani> yeah i hope they use it shichuan :|
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668. # [05:35] <uf0> why they have both
669. # [05:35] <uf0> why not just the first one
670. # [05:35] <nimbupani> i haave no idea :/
671. # [05:35] <uf0> :)
672. # [05:35] <nimbupani> it could be
673. # [05:35] <nimbupani> actually no idea
674. # [05:35] <nimbupani> i dont want to randomly throw ideas
675. # [05:35] <uf0> lmao
676. # [05:35] <uf0> ok
677. # [05:36] <shichuan> nimbupani: yea, there has been plenty empty promises made by other os makers in the past, let's hope the execution goes well with ie team :)
678. # [05:36] <nimbupani> :)))
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680. # [05:42] <niftylettuce> rename it... hip hop for html5
681. # [05:43] <niftylettuce> rip the fb doods
682. # [05:43] <niftylettuce> QQ
683. # [05:52] <paul_irish> http://www.browserrank.com/
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685. # [05:53] <nimbupani> omg terrible https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--Xy1dttjkW4/TWz5JzZ7VpI/AAAAAAAAAXk/y-SYqYfrEDU/s1600/popular.png
686. # [05:54] <paul_irish> GO ARMENIA!
687. # [05:56] <tw2113> wow, even opera is kicking ass in a few countries
688. # [05:57] <nimbupani> its pretty much opera here: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vAFkrTpjmKU/TWz4LEeMI2I/AAAAAAAAAXY/s19u7SV-CEg/s1600/mobilebrowser.png
689. # [05:57] <tw2113> yeah, they kind of dove headfirst in that area
690. # [05:58] <tw2113> i question the america being mostly android though, i still perceive iphones as being more popular
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697. # [06:06] <uf0> ummm... the only thing I don't like about yiibu style
698. # [06:07] <uf0> I guess it makes sense functionality wise :)
699. # [06:07] <uf0> but the current boilerplate is much simpler
700. # [06:08] <uf0> but then of course you'll be loading up stuff not necessary for mobile
701. # [06:08] <paul_irish> hypothetically
702. # [06:08] <uf0> tuff one..
703. # [06:08] <paul_irish> only background images.
704. # [06:08] <paul_irish> and only background images that you are redefining withing your mobile MQ
705. # [06:08] <uf0> what's MQ
706. # [06:09] <paul_irish> and only for webkit.. Android < 3, iOS < 4
707. # [06:09] <paul_irish> media query
708. # [06:09] <uf0> oh
709. # [06:09] <uf0> i see..
710. # [06:10] <paul_irish> it's a bug that was fixed. and ios4 will fix
711. # [06:10] <tw2113> interesting...same versions, different computers, one of my FF4's has the inspect element option, the other doesn't
712. # [06:10] <paul_irish> diff versions of firebug? always changes.
713. # [06:11] <tw2113> that may be it, i noticed i didn't have the firebug beta on the desktop
714. # [06:11] <tw2113> that must be where it comes from
715. # [06:18] <shichuan> the default android browser is really slow with 3G
716. # [06:18] <shichuan> is it just me or anyone else also experience it?
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718. # [06:19] <shichuan> on android, i can only use opera
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721. # [06:23] <tuxnani> can this kind of effect be brought in using canvas? http://www.peterengland.com/
722. # [06:25] <shichuan> tuxnani: yes
723. # [06:26] <tuxnani> shichuan, i have to complete one such site for my highschool, where to start with? Can you guide me?
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727. # [06:40] <paul_irish> tuxnani: http://mrdoob.github.com/three.js/examples/canvas_materials_video.html
728. # [06:40] <paul_irish> look into three.js
729. # [06:45] <tuxnani> paul_irish, thanks
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817. # [11:44] <phrearch> hey
818. # [11:44] <phrearch> anyone knows how to style a span so it has one character width?
819. # [11:47] <niftylettuce> nn all \o/
820. # [11:47] <niftylettuce> 542 AM EST :S :S :S
821. # [11:48] <samot__> html5 is great
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832. # [12:26] <beevi7> is there a way to determine which functions are bound to the DOMContentReady event of a document?
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836. # [12:48] <moo_> what's the trick of triggering ajax call when element becomes visible?
837. # [12:48] <moo_> i.e. what Disqus is doing
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850. # [13:18] <paul424> http://zajfon.pl/rozmowa I wanna write script which would click automatically on banners so one can talk longer ... is it possible in AS ?
851. # [13:18] <paul424> or in JS ?
852. # [13:21] * Joins: davidmurdoch (434ef46a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.78.244.106)
853. # [13:24] <davidmurdoch> anyone awake yet?
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855. # [13:28] * Joins: kataire (~kataire@cable-78-35-115-245.netcologne.de)
856. # [13:28] <kataire> euphorias: You around?
857. # [13:32] <davidmurdoch> geeze! CKEditor is freaking annoying to download. Just give me the source.js, index.htm, and with an example of the most basic usage. Don't give me a freaking encyclopidia.
858. # [13:35] <davidmurdoch> From the Docs: "Extract (decompress) the downloaded archive to a directory called ckeditor in the root of your website."
859. # [13:37] <davidmurdoch> how bout no. Get your dirty 6MB directory of crap files no one will ever need out of my root.
860. # [13:42] <kataire> davidmurdoch: I take it you're not a PHP programmer?
861. # [13:42] <davidmurdoch> haha. ?g Coding Hoor PHP Sucks But It Doesn't Matter
862. # [13:42] <kataire> Because that sounds like pretty much every installation instruction I've ever come across when working with PHP ;)
863. # [13:42] <davidmurdoch> ?g Coding Horror PHP Sucks But It Doesn't Matter
864. # [13:42] <bot-t> davidmurdoch, Coding Horror: PHP Sucks, But It Doesn't Matter - http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/05/php-sucks-but-it-doesnt-matter.html
865. # [13:43] <kataire> Ugh. Atwood.
866. # [13:44] <davidmurdoch> I absolutely HATE PHP with every fiber of my being
867. # [13:44] <davidmurdoch> and I've got 2 projects coming up with it.
868. # [13:44] * davidmurdoch crys
869. # [13:44] * Quits: daveluke (~davidluke@cpe-72-225-202-168.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: daveluke)
870. # [13:44] <kataire> I hate PHP and ActionScript, but right now that's where most of my money comes from.
871. # [13:45] <kataire> My preference is definitely Python. I refuse to work with Java and its ilk.
872. # [13:45] <davidmurdoch> yah, anytime i have to work with flash i get so frustrated.
873. # [13:46] <davidmurdoch> like today, in about 4 hours when I have to wrap this application in AIR
874. # [13:46] <kataire> I think Flash is a bigger problem for me than ActionScript. It's just so fundamentally fucked up. Like, there's a dictionary class because unlike JS you shouldn't use objects as maps, but there's no way to iterate over its keys.
875. # [13:46] <davidmurdoch> Have you worked with .net? Specifically .net 4 with MVC 3 and LINQ to SQL?
876. # [13:47] <kataire> Also, the cache and all that crap. Or loading external resources. Ugh. Don't get me started.
877. # [13:47] <kataire> I haven't worked with .Net because I refuse to develop for something that doesn't run on Linux servers.
878. # [13:47] <davidmurdoch> Linq to Sql saves WEEKS
879. # [13:47] <kataire> *properly
880. # [13:48] <kataire> Actually, that's not entirely true. My main point is that I see no benefit in picking up a language I can't properly use without shifting to a different OS.
881. # [13:49] <kataire> Also, I already dislike Java. I don't see how picking up C# would help me ;)
882. # [13:49] <davidmurdoch> Write database, Click Button. write query: `var widget = new Widget(){ Name="Foo", Type="Bar"}; Data.Widgets.InsertOnSubmit(widget); Data.SubmitChanges();`
883. # [13:49] <kataire> Oh, that. MVC. A good ORM can go a long way.
884. # [13:50] <kataire> I haven't written SQL queries inside applications since ... maybe a year ago.
885. # [13:50] <kataire> (querying the DB manually with SQL is a different thing)
886. # [13:51] <davidmurdoch> psh, i just THINK what I want and it is displayed for me.
887. # [13:51] <kataire> Sounds like Python.
888. # [13:51] <davidmurdoch> haha
889. # [13:52] <davidmurdoch> I don't know any Python... so I wouldn't know.
890. # [13:53] <kataire> I really want to learn Erlang. It's a complete brainfuck. I learned some Prolog a few years back and the concept of defining the problem rather than the solution is pretty crazy.
891. # [13:53] <kataire> Also, there's something amazing about a language that only responds with "Yes" and "No".
892. # [13:53] <davidmurdoch> Ook
893. # [13:54] <kataire> Anyway. Current project I work on uses Python and CouchDB. It's pretty awesome.
894. # [13:54] <davidmurdoch> http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html
895. # [13:55] <kataire> davidmurdoch: Unlike Ook Prolog and Erlang actually have some viable use cases, though ;)
896. # [13:55] <kataire> Well, I'm not sure about Prolog. I think it didn't get enough traction.
897. # [13:57] * Joins: okaycool (~okaycool@113.19.248.25)
898. # [13:58] <davidmurdoch> So, WYSYWIG editors...recommend any? jQuery plugins are a plug
899. # [13:58] <davidmurdoch> plus*
900. # [14:00] <kataire> You don't want a WYSIWYG editor.
901. # [14:00] <kataire> Try markdown instead.
902. # [14:01] <kataire> Don't ever give the client control over the layout. If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't need to hire you.
903. # [14:03] * Parts: okaycool (~okaycool@113.19.248.25)
904. # [14:03] <davidmurdoch> Yah, markdown's not going to work here.
905. # [14:06] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
906. # [14:11] <samot__> we use ckeditors
907. # [14:11] <samot__> ckeditor
908. # [14:12] <samot__> and its jquery supported
909. # [14:12] <samot__> this iconarchive.com remake
910. # [14:12] <samot__> is damn amazing
911. # [14:20] * Joins: cesarstafe (~cesarstaf@200-127-99-254.cab.prima.net.ar)
912. # [14:20] <kataire> Why do you need a WYSIWYG editor anyway?
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915. # [14:22] <davidmurdoch> A bunch of MS Office-type numpties will be using this application. The pages they create will be displayed to their end users; after being reviewed by my company.
916. # [14:23] <kataire> Egads.
917. # [14:23] <kataire> Run while you can.
918. # [14:24] <davidmurdoch> haha. its not that bad. It will be for Welcome messages, Terms of Use, ect. Markdown WOULD suffice...if they didn't first give me the middle finger when I told them they had to learn something new.
919. # [14:24] <davidmurdoch> :-)
920. # [14:24] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Quit: boaz)
921. # [14:25] <samot__> im using a wysiwyg for my latest startup to
922. # [14:25] <samot__> ckeditor is the bomb
923. # [14:26] <davidmurdoch> it is HEAVY though
924. # [14:26] * Quits: tuxnani (~rahimanud@202.53.13.107) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
925. # [14:26] <davidmurdoch> and they still provide a "packed" version
926. # [14:27] <samot__> yeah lol
927. # [14:27] <samot__> works well for us because our app is one page
928. # [14:27] <samot__> and we just load it in later
929. # [14:28] <samot__> delayed
930. # [14:29] * Joins: daveluke (~davidluke@cpe-72-225-202-168.nyc.res.rr.com)
931. # [14:30] <davidmurdoch> does it pollute the global namespace with anything other than ckeditor?
932. # [14:33] <samot__> not that ive come across
933. # [14:33] <samot__> and using a lot of js
934. # [14:34] <samot__> i just like how it handles the actual mark up
935. # [14:35] <samot__> because we export to pdf api's
936. # [14:35] <samot__> and other editors turn the html into shit after a while
937. # [14:36] <davidmurdoch> so, does ckeditor's pretty much always HTML validate?
938. # [14:37] <davidmurdoch> I have a feeling the Paste from Word will be the best part in my use-case
939. # [14:38] * Joins: davidmurdoch_ (434ef46a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.78.244.106)
940. # [14:39] <davidmurdoch_> with webchat.freednode.net's captcha if you can't read one of the words and are confident no one else can either you can enter whatever the heck you want and it doesn't care.
941. # [14:41] <kataire> That's just reCaptcha
942. # [14:41] <kataire> I think you only have to get half of it right. The other half is used for learning.
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946. # [14:44] <davidmurdoch_> so, what do you all think of the new scroll-your-web-page-in-crazy-ways craze thats been going on?
947. # [14:44] * Joins: tuxnani (~rahimanud@202.53.13.107)
948. # [14:44] <samot__> so far html has worked perfect but thats just us developers testing
949. # [14:45] <samot__> i really like that TED scroll effect
950. # [14:45] <davidmurdoch_> I feel like it is cool for a sec, and them i'm like: "Ugh, stop hogging my CPU and let me scroll"!
951. # [14:45] <samot__> lol just use chrome
952. # [14:45] <samot__> and everything is fast
953. # [14:46] <davidmurdoch_> not if your computer sucks.
954. # [14:47] <davidmurdoch_> Single Core 2.1 GHz AMD proc
955. # [14:47] <samot__> fair enough lol
956. # [14:47] <samot__> i always buy the cheapest parts i can find
957. # [14:47] <samot__> haven't been to a slow website in years
958. # [14:48] <samot__> can't wait to finish this app
959. # [14:49] <samot__> 14 hour days suck
960. # [14:49] <DJazz> anyone wanna try a html5 game im making?
961. # [14:49] <samot__> i will!
962. # [14:49] <DJazz> http://jazzjackrabbit.net/DJ/WebJJ2/
963. # [14:50] <davidmurdoch_> samot__, i agree. i'm at 52 hours so far this week.
964. # [14:51] <davidmurdoch_> drool: http://easeljs.com/demos/MusicVisualizer/index2.html
965. # [14:51] <samot__> lol shit
966. # [14:51] * Quits: gliese581 (~ManOnTheM@81.202.113.56.dyn.user.ono.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
967. # [14:51] <samot__> ive just been working every waking hour, because i have no friends, partner or anything else to do lol
968. # [14:51] <samot__> looks like bugzby
969. # [14:51] <davidmurdoch_> i have a wife who probably doesn't rmember what I look like anymore. haha
970. # [14:52] <davidmurdoch_> DJazz: since when does space bar not make you jump?
971. # [14:52] <samot__> lol
972. # [14:52] <samot__> how to jump
973. # [14:52] <DJazz> since its intended for fire
974. # [14:52] <DJazz> Ctrl jump
975. # [14:52] <samot__> AHHH
976. # [14:52] <samot__> IS THIS BUGZBY?
977. # [14:53] <DJazz> http://jazz2online.com this is a HTML5 port of that game
978. # [14:53] <davidmurdoch_> ctrl is supposed to be for fire. argh. My brains all wackbards now.
979. # [14:53] <davidmurdoch_> shoot isn't working
980. # [14:54] <samot__> pretty sure im loosing this shit
981. # [14:54] <samot__> i give up
982. # [14:54] <davidmurdoch_> haha, me too
983. # [14:55] * Joins: gliese581 (~ManOnTheM@81.202.113.56.dyn.user.ono.com)
984. # [14:55] <samot__> i just jumped around for 2mins lol
985. # [14:55] <samot__> what was i suppose to be testing
986. # [14:55] <davidmurdoch_> collision detection for walking is a bit too sensitive. the hills shouldn't require a jump
987. # [14:55] <davidmurdoch_> but man, I wish i could jump that high
988. # [14:55] <samot__> though it was quite fun jumping around for those 2 mins good job
989. # [14:56] <DJazz> :P
990. # [14:56] * davidmurdoch_ Shift+Esc -> Processes -> [devenv.exe] -> End Process
991. # [14:56] <davidmurdoch_> take THAT Visual Studio
992. # [14:56] * Quits: DJazz (d4d655a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.214.85.166) (Quit: Page closed)
993. # [14:57] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
994. # [14:58] <samot__> what languages you using david
995. # [14:59] <davidmurdoch_> C#. Its a Web Application on MVC 3
996. # [15:00] <samot__> personally sounds like torture to me lol
997. # [15:01] <davidmurdoch_> haha. no way. MVC 3 is awesome
998. # [15:01] * Quits: ben_h (~ben@128.250.195.186) (Quit: ben_h)
999. # [15:01] <samot__> lol yeah it does look great
1000. # [15:01] <samot__> just been so long since i used an ide
1001. # [15:01] <samot__> im always relocating and working everywhere
1002. # [15:01] <davidmurdoch_> and I'm using Linq to Sql with is even awesomer, yes awesomer.
1003. # [15:01] <samot__> that i just load up whatever editor the computer has
1004. # [15:02] <samot__> Also harder to keep up with the technologies when locked in like that
1005. # [15:02] <davidmurdoch_> I'd love a "cloud" version of Visual Studio.
1006. # [15:02] <samot__> that would be awesomest
1007. # [15:03] <davidmurdoch_> what's your dev weapon of choice?
1008. # [15:04] <samot__> notepad++/vim/geany
1009. # [15:04] <samot__> node.js/couchdb/backbone.js currently
1010. # [15:05] * miketaylr is now known as so1980
1011. # [15:05] <kataire> I used to recommend Komodo IDE, but I'm using Fossil as VCS these days and the code intelligence and debugging is worthless when I run all my Python and JS code on a development server rather than locally...
1012. # [15:05] <samot__> kohana and mysql orm
1013. # [15:05] <samot__> probably stick with node.js/couchdb and backbone.js for a while
1014. # [15:05] <samot__> language agnostic
1015. # [15:06] <samot__> all i need to know is js
1016. # [15:06] <kataire> samot__: Know a good ORM for PHP? It seems Pork.DB is the best you can get without picking up an entire MVC framework with all its XML configuration and bullshit like that (it's PHP FFS).
1017. # [15:06] * Joins: komputes (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes)
1018. # [15:06] <samot__> yeah i kinda think most of the ORMs for PHP suck
1019. # [15:07] <davidmurdoch_> nice, I haven't tried node.js yet.
1020. # [15:07] <kataire> davidmurdoch_: It's pretty neat.
1021. # [15:07] <kataire> samot__: Most anything for PHP sucks, tbh.
1022. # [15:07] <samot__> i'd only recommend the ones attached to Kohana, which is quite light weight and has some beautiful code
1023. # [15:07] <davidmurdoch_> Yah, i've looked into it a bit.
1024. # [15:07] <kataire> samot__: I was thinking about writing my own ORM for PHP, but I don't have the time at the moment.
1025. # [15:07] <samot__> redbean is a funny ORM if your slack and just working on a muck around app
1026. # [15:08] <samot__> i wouldn't bother writing one lol
1027. # [15:09] <samot__> redbean is a file include
1028. # [15:09] <samot__> and lets you do pretty much everything
1029. # [15:09] <samot__> don't think I will use mysql much more though
1030. # [15:10] <samot__> but if you have to use a php framework make sure you try Kohana those guys are smart
1031. # [15:11] <kataire> I'd rather not use PHP at all.
1032. # [15:12] <davidmurdoch_> ++
1033. # [15:12] <davidmurdoch_> ++++
1034. # [15:12] <phrearch> hm, no-one mentioned python yet? O:-)
1035. # [15:12] <davidmurdoch_> kataire did
1036. # [15:12] <samot__> node.js just seems like the best choice
1037. # [15:12] <davidmurdoch_> well, a long time ago
1038. # [15:13] <davidmurdoch_> If only I could keep msSQL with node.js
1039. # [15:13] <davidmurdoch_> :-p
1040. # [15:13] <kataire> phrearch: I really prefer Python these days. I only use PHP when I have to. And for the stuff I use PHP for, frameworks are usually overkill.
1041. # [15:13] <kataire> davidmurdoch_: If you only need one server, you might as well use SQLite
1042. # [15:13] <phrearch> kataire: same here. django, twisted and i want to use pypy as deployment server
1043. # [15:13] <phrearch> err runtime
1044. # [15:13] <phrearch> twisted as webserver
1045. # [15:13] <kataire> phrearch: Django? Pfsht. I use Flask.
1046. # [15:14] <samot__> https://github.com/orenmazor/node-tds
1047. # [15:14] <samot__> mssql and nodejs
1048. # [15:14] <davidmurdoch_> wait, what?
1049. # [15:14] <davidmurdoch_> really?!??!?!
1050. # [15:14] <kataire> The stack for my current app is nginx->green unicorn->flask and couchdb.
1051. # [15:14] <phrearch> aha, didnt know that one yet
1052. # [15:14] <davidmurdoch_> freaking a
1053. # [15:14] <phrearch> yea, couchdb/mongodb is on my wishlist as well
1054. # [15:15] <davidmurdoch_> is it stable?
1055. # [15:15] <kataire> What? CouchDB? Yes.
1056. # [15:15] <samot__> couchdb is somewhat stable lol
1057. # [15:15] <davidmurdoch_> no, node-tds (msSQL for node.js)
1058. # [15:15] <phrearch> any reason you didnt go for mongodb instead of couchdb?
1059. # [15:15] <samot__> i use couchdb also
1060. # [15:15] * davidmurdoch_ considers deleting entire project and starting over on node.js with msSQL
1061. # [15:16] <kataire> phrearch: Mostly because CouchDB is a bit more lightweight and I like the view system. I don't need complex queries or anything like that.
1062. # [15:16] <phrearch> kataire: ah ok
1063. # [15:16] <kataire> phrearch: Also, the attachments system is quite neat.
1064. # [15:17] <samot__> we went with couchdb because of the documentation
1065. # [15:17] <kataire> That, too.
1066. # [15:17] <kataire> I think CouchDB was a bit more stable, too. MongoDB is built for multi-server environments.
1067. # [15:17] <phrearch> i like to ditch relational dbs asap, but for now havent gave it much priority yet
1068. # [15:17] <samot__> ditching relational dbs is fun
1069. # [15:17] <kataire> CouchDB is built to recover from crashes.
1070. # [15:17] <samot__> makes developing really fun
1071. # [15:18] <samot__> don't have to worry about your "schema":
1072. # [15:18] <samot__> makes you plan more to instead of just throwing queries here and there
1073. # [15:18] <kataire> I'm thinking about using SQLite instead of MySQL from now on. I just can't think of any use cases I wouldn't use CouchDB for instead. At least not for the projects coming up.
1074. # [15:19] * Joins: DJazz (4e46f390@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.70.243.144)
1075. # [15:19] <samot__> i wish couchdb had single documentation authentication
1076. # [15:19] <samot__> wouldn't even need a middle man server
1077. # [15:19] <kataire> A what?
1078. # [15:20] <samot__> the only reason we put node.js between couchdb and our app
1079. # [15:20] <phrearch> the only reason i would consider node.js, is if its performance would be much better than twisted for websocket handling
1080. # [15:20] <samot__> was because you can't authenticate to a single document
1081. # [15:20] <phrearch> but right now, i enjoy all the python batteries included
1082. # [15:20] <kataire> You could replicate with filters.
1083. # [15:21] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
1084. # [15:21] <kataire> I haven't actually used this, but I think you can have multiple DBs that replicate into each other but use filters to restrict what gets in. That allows you to have different authentication requirements for different datasets or something.
1085. # [15:23] <kataire> phrearch: I'm thinking of writing a small website with node.js just for variety's sake. It's good to diversify your skillset these days.
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1087. # [15:23] * Quits: tomh (~tom@unaffiliated/tomh) (Quit: Leaving)
1088. # [15:25] <samot__> survival of the fittest
1089. # [15:25] <samot__> gotta keep up with the times
1090. # [15:26] <kataire> samot__: redbean seems pretty neat. Do I understand correctly that it doesn't really rely on an existing schema?
1091. # [15:26] <samot__> it can
1092. # [15:26] <samot__> but i think its designer to work from the ground up
1093. # [15:26] <samot__> designed*
1094. # [15:26] <samot__> it maps all your php objects automagically if you wish
1095. # [15:26] <samot__> kinda cool
1096. # [15:27] <kataire> I'm looking for a dumb store (I would use CouchDB if I could) for a PHP project I have on hold. I need to store objects with somewhat dynamic properties. I thought about just dumping them as JSON blobs originally.
1097. # [15:28] <kataire> Basically, I want to serialize and deserialize widgets to/from SQLite or MySQL.
1098. # [15:28] <samot__> redbean would make that pretty damn easy
1099. # [15:28] <samot__> but depending on the schema so would raw sql
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1101. # [15:28] <kataire> Yay. Bookmarked.
1102. # [15:28] <kataire> Well, the problem is that the widgets can be nested.
1103. # [15:29] <kataire> Well, some of them-.
1104. # [15:30] <samot__> surprised we haven't started a war in here
1105. # [15:30] <samot__> from all this preferred language talk
1106. # [15:30] <kataire> My problem with traditional RDB structure was that it isn't suited for arbitrary nesting. Some widgets can be nested, others can't.
1107. # [15:30] <kataire> Ruby sucks!
1108. # [15:30] <kataire> There. Happy now?
1109. # [15:30] * Joins: phrearch (~phrearch_@82-136-229-19.ip.telfort.nl)
1110. # [15:30] <samot__> r0fk
1111. # [15:31] <samot__> i really want
1112. # [15:31] <phrearch> kataire: yea good idea
1113. # [15:31] <kataire> r0fk?
1114. # [15:31] <samot__> lol r0fl
1115. # [15:31] <kataire> At least you didn't say "roffle"
1116. # [15:31] <phrearch> i guess learning node.js makes one a better js-coder as well
1117. # [15:31] <samot__> well
1118. # [15:31] <kataire> Possibly.
1119. # [15:32] <phrearch> i only use it clientside for now, but extensively
1120. # [15:32] <samot__> i love building single page web apps which are mainly javascript
1121. # [15:32] <samot__> then i code my server in javascript
1122. # [15:32] <samot__> and then i code my database calls in javascript
1123. # [15:32] <phrearch> same here
1124. # [15:32] <phrearch> currently working on a websocket cms
1125. # [15:32] * Joins: skqr (~skqr@extwdig.dig.com)
1126. # [15:32] <phrearch> http is so 2010 :)
1127. # [15:32] <samot__> ooo
1128. # [15:32] <samot__> lol
1129. # [15:32] <samot__> i do not have confidence in microsoft
1130. # [15:32] <samot__> so for now
1131. # [15:32] <samot__> long polling
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1133. # [15:33] <samot__> i want to build a acid js database that works well with something like backbone.js
1134. # [15:33] <samot__> so on app load, it pulls down all the users data
1135. # [15:33] * Joins: skqr (~skqr@extwdig.dig.com)
1136. # [15:33] <phrearch> that should be a reason not to use ie, but work with webkit/gecko :)
1137. # [15:33] <samot__> and you only send changes to the server
1138. # [15:33] <phrearch> long polling is killing every server
1139. # [15:33] <phrearch> ow nice
1140. # [15:34] <samot__> but to get acid properties with a client side json database
1141. # [15:34] <phrearch> im using a simular approach. only the bootstrapping is done with one http call
1142. # [15:34] <samot__> need websockets or long polling
1143. # [15:34] <kataire> I'm wondering how I could use web sockets in the set up I currently have. Is nginx okay with them?
1144. # [15:34] <phrearch> i prefer websockets. im using a url-based json protocol as websocket router
1145. # [15:34] <phrearch> like you can call urls to the client as well
1146. # [15:34] <samot__> thats what i would do to
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1148. # [15:35] <samot__> but what about IE lol
1149. # [15:35] <kataire> I guess I could bypass nginx for that. Hm...
1150. # [15:35] <samot__> cbf implementing a fallback -.-
1151. # [15:35] <phrearch> ie? wasnt that abolished by all developers in 2010? :)
1152. # [15:35] <samot__> lol
1153. # [15:35] <samot__> me and my co founder
1154. # [15:35] <samot__> have decided to offer 50% discount if you use anything but ie
1155. # [15:35] <kataire> IE9 is the new IE6?
1156. # [15:36] <samot__> and provide download links
1157. # [15:36] <kataire> MSIE turned 360 degrees spells SHIT.
1158. # [15:36] <phrearch> webkit and ff rule atm
1159. # [15:36] <samot__> r0fl
1160. # [15:36] <samot__> webkit is the bomb
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1162. # [15:36] <phrearch> yea, i cant wait until the device element is in webkit
1163. # [15:36] <samot__> lol i work on http://cdnjs.com
1164. # [15:37] <kataire> Webkit is awesome. A shame that Chrome's print engine is useless.
1165. # [15:37] <samot__> less then 2% of traffic is from IE
1166. # [15:37] * Joins: petersendidit (~petersend@twdp-174-109-185-191.nc.res.rr.com)
1167. # [15:38] <kataire> samot__: Why should I trust a minor third party CDN for my production servers? How can I trust you to continue service?
1168. # [15:38] <phrearch> two other features i would really like to see is full touch support and sound api
1169. # [15:38] * Quits: kor (~kor@ip146-53-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) (Quit: kor)
1170. # [15:38] <samot__> well its still an idea in works kataire
1171. # [15:39] <samot__> either we remain private and stable
1172. # [15:39] <kataire> samot__: Not trying to kick your dog or anything. Just an honest concern.
1173. # [15:39] <samot__> yes definitely
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1177. # [15:40] <samot__> its tricky and at the very least might breed innovation
1178. # [15:40] <samot__> but i find it highly useful when doing quick mockups or small scale apps
1179. # [15:40] <samot__> to be able to include some of those libraries
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1181. # [15:41] <kataire> I think what the html5boilerplate does is a good idea: use a CDN by default and fall back to local if the CDN is unresponsive.
1182. # [15:41] <samot__> yeah working on a section for the site
1183. # [15:41] <phrearch> cdn's are used to reduce bandwidth i guess?
1184. # [15:41] <samot__> to promote that approach
1185. # [15:41] <samot__> that was the next step kataire
1186. # [15:43] <themiddleman_> I dong understand all the <video> hype, just use an animated gif dummy
1187. # [15:44] <samot__> phreach cdns are used for many reasons
1188. # [15:44] <samot__> reducing bandwidth wouldn't be one of the stronger points imo
1189. # [15:44] <phrearch> samot__: ok, never read up about those really.
1190. # [15:45] <samot__> but is indeed a point
1191. # [15:45] * so1980 is now known as miketaylr
1192. # [15:45] <phrearch> aha ok
1193. # [15:45] <kataire> phrearch: Part of the idea is that the client can cache it, so it reduces redundancy.
1194. # [15:45] <kataire> And less redundancy == faster page rendering
1195. # [15:45] <phrearch> yea indeed
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1197. # [15:46] <samot__> also geolocation serving
1198. # [15:46] <kataire> So 1. it saves you bandwidth and 2. it saves the client bandwidth
1199. # [15:46] <samot__> if im in australia and your server is in america
1200. # [15:46] <samot__> i can fetch one of the required files from an australia server instead of your american server
1201. # [15:46] <phrearch> kataire: the client can cache it from your own server as well right?
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1203. # [15:47] <samot__> yes
1204. # [15:47] <kataire> phrearch: Yes, but they spend 99% of their time not looking at your site.
1205. # [15:47] <kataire> So if everyone uses CDNs, they probably already have it when they visit your site.
1206. # [15:47] <phrearch> aaah ok
1207. # [15:47] <kataire> i.e. using a CDN is good for everyone.
1208. # [15:47] <phrearch> yea that makes sense
1209. # [15:47] <samot__> i want someone or myself to make a chrome addon
1210. # [15:47] <samot__> which just downloads most of the popular libraries
1211. # [15:48] <samot__> into your cache
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1213. # [15:48] <samot__> and changes all sites code to use your local resources instead of theirs
1214. # [15:48] <phrearch> read today about a javascript implementation of map reduce
1215. # [15:48] <phrearch> pretty cool stuff
1216. # [15:48] <kataire> samot__: But how would you recognize requests for non-CDN copies of the same library? E-Tags and such won't help you.
1217. # [15:49] <phrearch> http://www.igvita.com/2009/03/03/collaborative-map-reduce-in-the-browser/
1218. # [15:49] <samot__> if i edited jquery.js?
1219. # [15:49] <samot__> you could do checksums?
1220. # [15:49] <grantg_> paul_irish: Did you retweet the stuff on http://twitter.com/html5 ?
1221. # [15:49] <socialhapy> Twitter says there's no such user. Don't blame me. :|
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1223. # [15:49] <kataire> samot__: But how would you get the server-side checksum without downloading it first? You can't request by checksum.
1224. # [15:49] <grantg_> oh wait
1225. # [15:49] <samot__> oh yeah lol
1226. # [15:49] <grantg_> he's not here
1227. # [15:49] <kataire> grantg_: He's euphorias
1228. # [15:50] <davidmurdoch_> samot__ https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/issues#issue/252/comment/614395
1229. # [15:50] <grantg_> kataire: Who ever controls @html5 on twitter just RT'd http://twitter.com/volkerkannacher/status/43552799555993600
1230. # [15:50] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/eqZNGi @volkerkannacher: @html5 Zelda on @facebook ZING! - http://apps.facebook.com/jszelda/
1231. # [15:50] <grantg_> oh god
1232. # [15:50] <davidmurdoch_> <script src="cache://jquery-1.4.4.js?//static.example.com/jquery-1.4.4.min.js"></script> would be cool
1233. # [15:50] <davidmurdoch_> but it wouldn't be backwards compatible
1234. # [15:51] <kataire> grantg_: So?
1235. # [15:51] <grantg_> b/c now zelda really does need to be taken down
1236. # [15:51] <kataire> Copyright issues?
1237. # [15:51] <samot__> nice idea murdoch
1238. # [15:52] <grantg_> kataire: It's a gameboy color emulator in js that loads the zelda rom in
1239. # [15:52] <kataire> grantg_: i.e. copyright issues?
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1241. # [15:54] <samot__> lol who are these people making game boy emulators in javascript
1242. # [15:54] <samot__> that sh** is amazing
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1244. # [15:56] <phrearch> hm, could take some time before ps3 is emulateable in js :)
1245. # [15:56] <phrearch> impressive stuff
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1250. # [15:59] <kataire> samot__: Zelda was lagging like hell and making popping noises for me in Chrome 9, tho.
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1253. # [16:00] <samot__> yeah same lol
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1311. # [16:36] <DJazz> zelda experiment: http://jazzjackrabbit.net/DJ/NewZelda/
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1315. # [16:38] <jetienne_> DJazz: how do you get the graphics?
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1317. # [16:39] <DJazz> from the .jar
1318. # [16:39] <DJazz> its a mobile game originally
1319. # [16:39] <DJazz> click the link below it
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1322. # [16:40] <jetienne_> DJazz: excelent
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1324. # [16:41] <DJazz> if you want to fight some enemies, try the old version: http://jazzjackrabbit.net/DJ/Zelda/
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1327. # [16:47] <DJazz> other experiment: http://jazzjackrabbit.net/DJ/Epsile/
1328. # [16:47] <DJazz> :P
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1339. # [16:59] <phrearch> anyone mind testing this collabeditor?
1340. # [16:59] <phrearch> http://94.23.105.24/
1341. # [17:00] <phrearch> just added prelimenary remote caret support to it
1342. # [17:00] <phrearch> chromium only
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1440. # [17:43] <davidmurdoch> samot__: remember that javascript-library client-side cache extension idea idea you were talking about?
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1442. # [17:43] <davidmurdoch> your dream may come true VERY soon: https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/developers/design-documents/extensions/notifications-of-web-request-and-navigation
1443. # [17:44] <davidmurdoch> Right now the APIs are notification only (and experimental) but they are considering allowing for the callbacks to respond to the events...you know, like redirect to cache
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1460. # [17:56] <DJazz> .... http://jazzjackrabbit.net/DJ/Collabdraw/ :D
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1472. # [18:11] <daleharvey> ok, now I need to make stuff draggable, and for that to work on the phone :)
1473. # [18:11] <daleharvey> any pointers?
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1479. # [18:18] <davidmurdoch> http://www.stevefenton.co.uk/cmsfiles/assets/File/mobiledragdrop.html
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1482. # [18:21] <daleharvey> yeh I seen that, kinda sucks on mobile though
1483. # [18:23] <jetienne__> i cant get what would be a dragdrop on such small screen
1484. # [18:25] <daleharvey> a sortable list
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1486. # [18:26] <uf0> how do you pronounce the word "charset"
1487. # [18:26] <uf0> do you say "car set" ?
1488. # [18:26] <daleharvey> no, like charcoal
1489. # [18:27] <digitalfiz> DJazz, thats pretty neat
1490. # [18:27] <davidmurdoch> "car set"
1491. # [18:27] <davidmurdoch> you don't say CHAR-acter, you say CAR-acter
1492. # [18:28] <JNZ> So apparently using iframes is a really bad idea becase most browsers render them really poorly even in seamless mode
1493. # [18:28] <DJazz> thanx
1494. # [18:28] <uf0> so daleharvey says like "char (as in charlie) set" and davidmurdoch says "car set"
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1496. # [18:28] <uf0> i'm going with car-set
1497. # [18:28] <uf0> thanks guys
1498. # [18:28] <JNZ> I literally just want a C include-like behavior and I was hoping an iframe could do that for me :p
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1508. # [18:33] <Michael> Anyone know if the maps api lets you overlay your own map image?
1509. # [18:33] <bot-t> (15 hours 40 mins ago) <paul_irish> tell Michael http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/03/03/disney-acquires-gaming-engine-startup-to-build-html5-games-outside-of-app-stores/ woowoo!
1510. # [18:33] <Michael> tell paul_irish I saw that article yesterday! Very good acquisition :)
1511. # [18:33] <Michael> bot-t: tell paul_irish I saw that article yesterday! Very good acquisition :)
1512. # [18:33] <bot-t> Michael, Okay.
1513. # [18:33] <Michael> bot-t: ok?
1514. # [18:33] <bot-t> Michael, As I see it, yes.
1515. # [18:33] <Michael> hmm
1516. # [18:33] <Michael> `tell paul_irish I saw that article yesterday! Very good acquisition :)
1517. # [18:34] <Michael> oh well.
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1519. # [18:35] <althie> 2/win 40
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1523. # [18:43] <jetienne__> Michael: why is it so good ?
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1526. # [18:45] <uf0> what kind of bugs happen if I leave out '<meta charset="utf-8">' in a basic html page
1527. # [18:45] <uf0> just curious
1528. # [18:45] <uf0> ?
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1533. # [18:47] <gamestreamer> Hey all, wondering, the article element seems to automatically close paragraph elements when nested inside of them(on Chrome/OSX), is this behavior intentional or a possible issue in HTML5 support with Chrome?
1534. # [18:51] <Michael> jetienne__, Because it seems like a good engine that will be easy to develop with
1535. # [18:51] <Michael> I work for TWDC so it affects my work :)
1536. # [18:51] <Michael> And I like how it sounds
1537. # [18:54] <jetienne__> ok
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1554. # [19:15] <Michael> Anyone implement feature bits/feature toggling?
1555. # [19:16] <euphorias> wat
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1560. # [19:20] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
1561. # [19:22] <mrchrisadams> hi guys - is there a particular irc channel to for asking questions about html, and in particular tabindex?
1562. # [19:23] * Joins: Quilck (~Quilck@90.183.82.215)
1563. # [19:23] <euphorias> #html should do it
1564. # [19:24] * Quits: Evet (~Evet@pdpc/supporter/active/evet) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1565. # [19:26] <euphorias> Michael: what you askin foo
1566. # [19:27] <gamestreamer> Hey all, wondering, the article element seems to automatically close paragraph elements when nested inside of them(on Chrome/OSX), is this behavior intentional or a possible issue in HTML5 support with Chrome?
1567. # [19:27] <Michael> euphorias, http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Feature-Bits
1568. # [19:27] <Michael> Just toggling features on/off rather than having feature branches
1569. # [19:27] <Michael> Everything goes into the same repo
1570. # [19:27] <euphorias> gamestreamer: <article><p>omgomg </article> gamestreamer ?
1571. # [19:27] <Michael> I'm exploring this idea for our growing studios
1572. # [19:28] <gamestreamer> euphorias: No is <p>lorem<article>ipsum</article></p>
1573. # [19:28] <gamestreamer> Turns into: <p>lorem</p><article>ipsum</article><p></p> in Chrome/OSX
1574. # [19:28] * Joins: daveluke (~davidluke@cpe-72-225-202-168.nyc.res.rr.com)
1575. # [19:28] <euphorias> Michael: ah. i like that yeah. flickr and typekit do that. paul hammond was the lead guy behind that at flickr.
1576. # [19:29] <Michael> yep! I was just reading his article
1577. # [19:29] <gamestreamer> euphorias: W3C doesn't really say much, their example has paragraphs inside the article element but, wondering if it's chrome misbehaving or not because FF/Safari runs it correctly
1578. # [19:29] <euphorias> gamestreamer: same should happen in FF4
1579. # [19:29] <gamestreamer> euphorias: negative
1580. # [19:29] <euphorias> comeonnnn
1581. # [19:29] <div_sg> yeah srsly gamestreamer
1582. # [19:29] <Michael> euphorias, Basically our merging strategy is not scaling with so many new cast members and studios coming on.. we have 7 studios all trying to merge into main in the same 24 hour periuod
1583. # [19:29] <Michael> period
1584. # [19:29] <euphorias> sounds sexy
1585. # [19:29] <div_sg> lemme try in Opera html5 parser build
1586. # [19:30] <gamestreamer> div_sg: go for it, weird but true
1587. # [19:30] * Quits: daveluke (~davidluke@cpe-72-225-202-168.nyc.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
1588. # [19:30] <gamestreamer> The real question I have is, if Chrome is not parsing it correctly, or if article elements close paragraph elements and this is the standard
1589. # [19:31] * Quits: Sosby (fsosby@s2.rdlbnc.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1590. # [19:32] <div_sg> same behaviour in Opera html-parser build gamestreamer
1591. # [19:32] <div_sg> gamestreamer: did you try on FF 4 and safari 5?
1592. # [19:32] <div_sg> coz those are the only builds that implement html-parser
1593. # [19:32] <gamestreamer> div_sg: yeah ff4 and safari both allow articles inside of paragraphs
1594. # [19:32] <div_sg> apart from Chrome 9 onwards?
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1596. # [19:32] <div_sg> really gamestreamer that sounds odd.
1597. # [19:32] <div_sg> they shouldnt.
1598. # [19:33] <gamestreamer> div_sg: it's super odd but, I'm guessing since opera and chrome both release more frequently, this is the standard
1599. # [19:33] <div_sg> well gamestreamer minefield def follows chrome
1600. # [19:34] <div_sg> http://gyazo.com/d68f1d097c731e8fab39e47e383c0a29.png
1601. # [19:34] <div_sg> and Opera.
1602. # [19:34] <gamestreamer> div_sg: s'true
1603. # [19:34] <div_sg> so I think its just not using the right html-parser
1604. # [19:34] <div_sg> article should not be within a p
1605. # [19:35] <gamestreamer> div_sg: appearently :0
1606. # [19:36] <gamestreamer> div_sg: alright well, safari 5.0.3 -- deff. allows it, just a heads up :P
1607. # [19:36] <div_sg> gamestreamer: it wont soon
1608. # [19:36] <euphorias> div_sg: http://translate.google.com/#fr|fr|Louis-R%C3%A9mi%20Bab%C3%A9
1609. # [19:36] <gamestreamer> div_sg: truth
1610. # [19:36] <euphorias> i emailed him to get the pronounciation
1611. # [19:37] <gamestreamer> div_sg: tyty for your help, this is what I get for using HTML5 early :\
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1639. # [19:53] <danielfilho> ?g omg paul
1640. # [19:53] <bot-t> danielfilho, Paul McCartney - omg! on Yahoo! - http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/paul-mccartney/227
1641. # [19:53] <danielfilho> oh, can't remember that pic :(
1642. # [19:56] <phrearch> hm, gotta love this demomusic ^_^ http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/85046
1643. # [19:56] * Joins: chriseppstein (~chris@209.119.65.162)
1644. # [19:57] <phrearch> wonder if cc non-commercial can be used in bsd projects
1645. # [19:57] <phrearch> this would be an excellent about screen background tune :)
1646. # [19:59] * Quits: mrchrisadams (~mrchrisad@87.236.135.205) (Quit: mrchrisadams)
1647. # [19:59] <euphorias> danielfilho: see ?omgpaul
1648. # [19:59] <bot-t> danielfilho, http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs456.snc3/26108_532014511782_29100413_31383464_6948266_n.jpg
1649. # [19:59] <danielfilho> THAT! hahaha
1650. # [20:00] <euphorias> btw me and divya are participating in /nick YOURFIRSTSCREENNAME DAY !!!
1651. # [20:01] <danielfilho> what?
1652. # [20:01] <digitalfiz> interesting
1653. # [20:01] <danielfilho> wtf is that?
1654. # [20:01] * digitalfiz is now known as Fizucked-Up
1655. # [20:01] <Fizucked-Up> :D
1656. # [20:01] <danielfilho> my first screenname was logan_x
1657. # [20:02] <danielfilho> and still is in some old services like delicious and last.fm :)
1658. # [20:02] <Fizucked-Up> this was my screenname on starcraft
1659. # [20:02] <danielfilho> and who are you?
1660. # [20:02] <Fizucked-Up> no body
1661. # [20:02] <danielfilho> and who is euphorias and digitalfiz?
1662. # [20:02] <danielfilho> I'm lost.
1663. # [20:02] * danielfilho is now known as logan_x
1664. # [20:03] <Fizucked-Up> euphorias is paul
1665. # [20:03] <div_sg> :)
1666. # [20:03] <logan_x> paul? you mean THE_PAUL? The Irish Paul? ?omgpaul
1667. # [20:03] <logan_x> lolz
1668. # [20:03] <Fizucked-Up> yes
1669. # [20:03] <logan_x> and Fizucked-Up is divya?
1670. # [20:03] <div_sg> lawls no
1671. # [20:03] <Fizucked-Up> no lol Fizucked-Up is digitalfiz
1672. # [20:03] <logan_x> oh, div_sg makes sense.
1673. # [20:04] <Fizucked-Up> im just a lurker here im not special like them guys
1674. # [20:04] <logan_x> I see.
1675. # [20:04] <logan_x> :D
1676. # [20:08] * Quits: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1677. # [20:09] * Quits: Levis_ (~Levis_@93-63-109-252.ip27.fastwebnet.it) (Remote host closed the connection)
1678. # [20:10] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
1679. # [20:11] * Joins: Sosby (fsosby@s2.rdlbnc.com)
1680. # [20:13] <Fyrd> /nick JKAD
1681. # [20:13] <Fyrd> Oops.
1682. # [20:13] <Fyrd> How's this thing work again? :)
1683. # [20:14] <euphorias> haha that's how it works.. maybe you did double slash?
1684. # [20:14] <euphorias> try again.
1685. # [20:14] * Fyrd is now known as JKAD
1686. # [20:14] <Fizucked-Up> looks like a space
1687. # [20:14] <euphorias> \o/
1688. # [20:14] <JKAD> Ah, had a space for some reason
1689. # [20:14] <JKAD> Yay, brings back memories.
1690. # [20:15] * Joins: felcom_ (~felcom@rrcs-71-43-19-2.se.biz.rr.com)
1691. # [20:15] * Quits: felcom_ (~felcom@rrcs-71-43-19-2.se.biz.rr.com) (Client Quit)
1692. # [20:15] * JKAD met his future wife as JKAD
1693. # [20:16] <euphorias> awww happy
1694. # [20:17] <euphorias> a few of us started going into our old livejournals last night... wow that was a bad idea
1695. # [20:17] <euphorias> sooo emo back then.
1696. # [20:17] <JKAD> 8 years going strong. :)
1697. # [20:17] * Quits: felcom (~felcom@rrcs-71-43-19-2.se.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1698. # [20:17] <JKAD> Heh.
1699. # [20:17] * Joins: kataire` (~kataire@cable-78-35-115-245.netcologne.de)
1700. # [20:17] <div_sg> so chain mail loving back then
1701. # [20:17] <JKAD> I didn't do any blogging back then.
1702. # [20:17] <euphorias> ?trout div_sg
1703. # [20:17] <bot-t> euphorias, Couldn't find "trout div_sg" in jQuery Docs.
1704. # [20:17] <div_sg> :D
1705. # [20:17] <euphorias> hahahah
1706. # [20:18] <JKAD> But we did do a lot of chat and ICQ logging
1707. # [20:18] <euphorias> yeah ICQ!!
1708. # [20:18] * euphorias had the lowest number ever
1709. # [20:18] <euphorias> div_sg: im thinking about coming to SEA
1710. # [20:18] * Joins: Bj_o_rn (~Bjorn@h-61-23.A163.priv.bahnhof.se)
1711. # [20:18] <div_sg> WHEN?
1712. # [20:18] <euphorias> tonight
1713. # [20:18] <div_sg> WAT
1714. # [20:18] * Quits: foca (~foca@li25-211.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1715. # [20:19] <div_sg> ARE YOU CRAZY?
1716. # [20:19] <JKAD> Mide had like 6 chars, that was pretty low at the time.
1717. # [20:19] <euphorias> whoa 6char! high-five!
1718. # [20:19] <JKAD> Maybe 7.
1719. # [20:19] <euphorias> yeah 7 character people always thought they were early.. PSHHH
1720. # [20:19] <euphorias> i had 721422
1721. # [20:20] <JKAD> Mine was something like 6069106
1722. # [20:20] * Quits: Nakre (thend@78.167.135.107) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1723. # [20:20] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@d220253.adsl.hansenet.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1724. # [20:20] <JKAD> Can't recall exactly, but it had 3 6s
1725. # [20:20] * Quits: Quilck (~Quilck@90.183.82.215) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1726. # [20:20] * Quits: kataire (~kataire@cable-78-35-115-245.netcologne.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1727. # [20:20] <JKAD> My wife key calling me the devil.
1728. # [20:20] * Parts: Bj_o_rn (~Bjorn@h-61-23.A163.priv.bahnhof.se) ("Leaving")
1729. # [20:20] <JKAD> kept
1730. # [20:21] * Quits: ajpiano (~ajpiano@li98-57.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1731. # [20:21] * Joins: ajpiano (~ajpiano@li98-57.members.linode.com)
1732. # [20:21] <euphorias> seemed to work out for her.
1733. # [20:21] * Joins: Nakre (thend@78.167.135.107)
1734. # [20:22] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@d220253.adsl.hansenet.de)
1735. # [20:22] * Joins: foca (~foca@li25-211.members.linode.com)
1736. # [20:22] <JKAD> mmhm
1737. # [20:25] * Joins: Quilck (~Quilck@90.183.82.215)
1738. # [20:25] <JKAD> The ol' chatroom where we met is still around, too: http://outpost10f.com/tenforward/
1739. # [20:26] <JKAD> Largely still looks the same.
1740. # [20:26] * Quits: inimino (~inimino@boshi.inimino.org) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1741. # [20:26] <JKAD> Time went by sooo slowly back in '97.
1742. # [20:27] <JKAD> Though maybe that was 'cause of the dial up.
1743. # [20:27] <euphorias> thanks earthlink!
1744. # [20:27] <div_sg> hahahahaha JKAD so nerdy
1745. # [20:28] <JKAD> div_sg: I know, right? :D
1746. # [20:30] <JKAD> Come on, lets here some other stories.
1747. # [20:30] <JKAD> (this is why I don't like to stay logged into IRC, I tend to get chatty)
1748. # [20:36] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
1749. # [20:37] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
1750. # [20:39] <euphorias> and then make girls fall in love with you
1751. # [20:39] * Joins: sebastiangr (~sebastian@bas1-burlington02-1176191813.dsl.bell.ca)
1752. # [20:40] <tw2113> haha, from the html5doctor.com site "Choose from the answers below please. Make sure you show your working out. Escape your HTML, please, or we’ll put a severed unicorn head in your bed."
1753. # [20:41] * Joins: armageddon47 (~vladikoff@bas1-woodbridge48-2925111342.dsl.bell.ca)
1754. # [20:41] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
1755. # [20:41] <JKAD> euphorias: Ha ha, yeah exactly. :)
1756. # [20:42] <JKAD> Actually it took like 3 years. All the more reason to get started.
1757. # [20:42] <JKAD> Well except for the being happily married part.
1758. # [20:43] * Joins: PrgmrBill^ (~PrgmrBill@prgmrbill.com)
1759. # [20:43] * Quits: PrgmrBill (~PrgmrBill@unaffiliated/prgmrbill) (Disconnected by services)
1760. # [20:43] * Quits: PrgmrBill^ (~PrgmrBill@prgmrbill.com) (Client Quit)
1761. # [20:44] * Joins: PrgmrBill (~PrgmrBill@unaffiliated/prgmrbill)
1762. # [20:44] <logan_x> sorry about the timing
1763. # [20:45] <logan_x> but my icq was reaaaally small
1764. # [20:45] <logan_x> was 718382, 'til an idiot italian stole it. i have no idea how.
1765. # [20:45] <logan_x> now, it is 1462071.
1766. # [20:47] <JKAD> Nice, logan_x. Here I thought I was something.
1767. # [20:48] <logan_x> HAHAHA
1768. # [20:48] <logan_x> you are, you are.
1769. # [20:48] <logan_x> you mean a lot to us. your UIN number inside our hearts have only 3 digits, ok?
1770. # [20:48] <JKAD> logan_x: :)
1771. # [20:49] <sebastiangr> hello... anybody familiar with websql?
1772. # [20:49] <sebastiangr> i need some help
1773. # [20:49] <logan_x> hm, I never played with it, but you can ask
1774. # [20:50] <sebastiangr> k... well...
1775. # [20:50] <JKAD> sebastiangr: Before you get too comfortable with it, note that it's a dying tech.
1776. # [20:50] <logan_x> yup. that's a point too.
1777. # [20:50] <logan_x> http://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/
1778. # [20:51] <sebastiangr> i have been able to create a table and insert content to a table... but only if the INSERT statements are within the same bloc of code as the CREATE TABLE statement... otherwise chrome ignores it
1779. # [20:51] <logan_x> "Beware. This specification is no longer in active maintenance and the Web Applications Working Group does not intend to maintain it further."
1780. # [20:51] <sebastiangr> i know its deprecated but blackberry seems to be using it quite a lot
1781. # [20:51] <euphorias> still useful on mobile.
1782. # [20:51] <logan_x> euphorias: they will not deprecate it?
1783. # [20:51] <logan_x> i mean, on mobile?
1784. # [20:52] <sebastiangr> not sure... but its all they use at this point
1785. # [20:52] <sebastiangr> not indexdb
1786. # [20:52] <euphorias> logan_x: http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-html5/browse_thread/thread/f4af6a55c558b91b?hl=en#
1787. # [20:52] <sebastiangr> my code is at http://pastebin.com/HJXkzKb7
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1789. # [20:54] <sebastiangr> i cant get an independent function for just inserting into the table
1790. # [20:54] <logan_x> nice, thanks euphorias :D
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1792. # [20:59] <daleharvey> do you know what would be cool in fact
1793. # [21:00] <daleharvey> debugging mobile browser is pretty hard to implement, but it seems like making a browser plugin that makes it act more like a mobile browser would be possible
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1804. # [21:09] <sebastiangr> any thoughts?
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1821. # [21:23] <davidmurdoch> anyone in here familiar with Adobe AIR?
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1826. # [21:29] <davidmurdoch> anyone at all? even a little bit?
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1841. # [21:51] <moo_> davidmurdoch: a little
1842. # [21:52] <moo_> did one app some time ago
1843. # [21:52] <davidmurdoch> I've got an HTML application I want to run in air. Its basically just a browser but the UI is implemented in CSS, JS, and HTML.
1844. # [21:53] * Parts: eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f73b930.pool.mediaWays.net) ("Leaving.")
1845. # [21:53] <davidmurdoch> The problem is that the iframe knows that it is not the `top` window (top !== window)
1846. # [21:53] <moo_> davidmurdoch: AIR implements webkit
1847. # [21:53] <moo_> davidmurdoch: so it should not be a problem
1848. # [21:53] <davidmurdoch> so frame-busting sites can take over the "browser" pretty easily
1849. # [21:53] <moo_> davidmurdoch: don't go to frame busting sites then? :)
1850. # [21:54] <davidmurdoch> haha
1851. # [21:54] <davidmurdoch> facebook.com doesn't work either.
1852. # [21:54] <davidmurdoch> any ideas?
1853. # [21:54] <moo_> davidmurdoch: my recommenadtion
1854. # [21:54] <moo_> stay away from AIR :)
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1856. # [21:55] <davidmurdoch> any other recommendations to accomplish this?
1857. # [21:55] <davidmurdoch> MUST run on linux
1858. # [21:55] <moo_> davidmurdoch: google if facebook JSDK works with AIR
1859. # [21:57] <jetienne> davidmurdoch: chrome+opera+firefox got single site browser
1860. # [21:57] <jetienne> davidmurdoch: or maybe i misunderstood what you wanted completly
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1862. # [21:58] <davidmurdoch> Yah, i've got a custom chrome for a browser implemented in JS/HTML/CSS
1863. # [21:58] <davidmurdoch> right now, the "tabs" run within iframes....but those can be frame-busted
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1865. # [21:59] <davidmurdoch> so, i was hoping that when running an iframe from within AIR that this wouldn't be an issue (actually iframes can't be frame busted within AIR. But the iframes can still detect that they are not the `top` window)
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1868. # [22:04] <moo_> davidmurdoch: do you want to wrap it as a desktop application?
1869. # [22:05] <davidmurdoch> yup
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1871. # [22:06] <moo_> davidmurdoch: try qt and qwebkit or whatever it is
1872. # [22:06] <moo_> you can have 100% control over it
1873. # [22:07] <moo_> qt should be quite is to wrap up
1874. # [22:10] <davidmurdoch> interesting. have you used it?
1875. # [22:10] <moo_> davidmurdoch: yeah
1876. # [22:10] <moo_> we built a mobile phone browser simulator out of it
1877. # [22:10] <moo_> using python
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1881. # [22:14] <davidmurdoch> hm, can you lock it down. running it like a kiosk application?
1882. # [22:14] <moo_> davidmurdoch: of course
1883. # [22:14] <moo_> it is open source
1884. # [22:14] <moo_> you can do whatever you wish
1885. # [22:14] <moo_> hack even webkit itself if needed
1886. # [22:15] * miketaylr is now known as so1980
1887. # [22:15] <moo_> davidmurdoch: but I think most can be accomplished by adding some custom handlers for page loading
1888. # [22:15] <moo_> i.e. refuse load after timeout
1889. # [22:15] <davidmurdoch> hm, I've only got an hour and hald
1890. # [22:15] <davidmurdoch> half
1891. # [22:15] <davidmurdoch> ...for a presentation
1892. # [22:15] <moo_> davidmurdoch: that's little too short :(
1893. # [22:15] <davidmurdoch> yah
1894. # [22:16] <davidmurdoch> and my IDE installed just corrupted itself
1895. # [22:16] <moo_> davidmurdoch: http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2010-May/026653.html
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1899. # [22:23] <davidmurdoch> hmm. Well, I'll just run it in AIR for my presentation and avoid webpages that frame-bust
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1901. # [22:25] <davidmurdoch> maybe next week i'll be able to mess around with QT and all that
1902. # [22:25] <davidmurdoch> oh, and learn python
1903. # [22:25] <moo_> :)
1904. # [22:25] <moo_> that's big +
1905. # [22:27] <grantg> Wasn't Qt killed off by Nokia?
1906. # [22:27] <moo_> grantg: only in nokia mobile phones
1907. # [22:28] <moo_> grantg: Qt is used by Skype, Opera, etc. desktop software
1908. # [22:28] <grantg> heh
1909. # [22:28] <moo_> in KDE
1910. # [22:28] <moo_> it is hardly dying
1911. # [22:28] <grantg> heh
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1918. # [22:36] <davidmurdoch> IDE is back. Man I wish cloud9ide supported .net.
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1922. # [22:38] <JKarsrud> davidmurdoch: compiling .net might be a bit heavy on the cloud :)
1923. # [22:39] <JKarsrud> which languages does it support?
1924. # [22:39] <moo_> heavy clouds make rain
1925. # [22:39] <davidmurdoch> JKarsrud. true...but it wouldn't be my problem. :-)
1926. # [22:40] <JKarsrud> true dat
1927. # [22:40] <JKarsrud> It sucks to have to use VS to program in .net, but it's becoming a pretty sweet ide imo
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1929. # [22:41] <davidmurdoch> It is, especially with ReSharper...which just screwed me over for the last 3 hours. Uninstalling fixed it.
1930. # [22:41] <JKarsrud> lol
1931. # [22:41] <JKarsrud> resharper is a must
1932. # [22:41] <davidmurdoch> They need to release 6.0 so it works with MVC 3 and razr
1933. # [22:41] * Quits: gliese581 (~ManOnTheM@81.202.113.56.dyn.user.ono.com) (Quit: Lost terminal)
1934. # [22:42] <JKarsrud> isn't 6.0 out in eap?
1935. # [22:42] * peol is now known as yoe_
1936. # [22:43] <davidmurdoch> i dunno
1937. # [22:43] <davidmurdoch> i have no idea what eap is
1938. # [22:43] <davidmurdoch> lol
1939. # [22:43] <grantg> Nintendo: goo.gl/vBJiL U MAD?
1940. # [22:44] <JKarsrud> http://blogs.jetbrains.com/dotnet/2010/12/resharper-6-eap-is-open-details-on-javascript-support/
1941. # [22:44] <JKarsrud> davidmurdoch: early access program
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1943. # [22:44] * dguttman_ is now known as dguttman
1944. # [22:44] <JKarsrud> I'm pretty excited to see how well the JS and CSS support in re# really is
1945. # [22:46] <JKarsrud> davidmurdoch: you worked much with mvc3?
1946. # [22:46] <davidmurdoch> sweet. downloading now. Hopefully whatever happend to the last install won't be a problem
1947. # [22:46] <davidmurdoch> For like 2 months now
1948. # [22:47] <JKarsrud> k
1949. # [22:47] <davidmurdoch> but i had never used MVC * before that
1950. # [22:47] <JKarsrud> Haven't really had the opportunity to work much with it, we're kinda stuck on mvc2 atm :(
1951. # [22:47] <JKarsrud> because we don't have the time to upgrade our massive projects to 3 :p
1952. # [22:47] <davidmurdoch> Razr is incredible.
1953. # [22:48] <JKarsrud> it's pretty nice, yeah
1954. # [22:48] <JKarsrud> I'm a sucker for Spark tho
1955. # [22:48] <davidmurdoch> have used it
1956. # [22:48] <davidmurdoch> since Razr came with MVC 3 i've just been using that
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1958. # [22:48] <JKarsrud> yeah, and it's way better than the old asp view engine
1959. # [22:49] <JKarsrud> I just like spark for it's clean syntax
1960. # [22:49] <JKarsrud> http://ironshay.com/post/The-Big-View-Engine-Comparison-e28093-Razor-vs-Spark-vs-NHaml-vs-Web-Forms-View-Engine.aspx
1961. # [22:50] <JKarsrud> because you can put conditionals directly on elements as attributes etc, makes the view code seem more like actual markup, without a bunch of weird stuff wrapping elements :)
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1963. # [22:52] <moo_> JKarsrud: read about TAL :)
1964. # [22:53] <moo_> JKarsrud: it's similar mark-up, but for Python
1965. # [22:53] <moo_> I have been using it
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1968. # [22:53] <moo_> and I prefer plain-text templates over XML'ish templates
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1970. # [22:53] <moo_> http://docs.zope.org/zope2/zope2book/AppendixC.html
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1974. # [22:54] <JKarsrud> moo_: hmm, pretty nice
1975. # [22:55] <moo_> it has limitations
1976. # [22:55] <moo_> like
1977. # [22:55] <moo_> try create an plain-text email with that <_
1978. # [22:55] <moo_> <_<
1979. # [22:55] <JKarsrud> as does all view engines / template languages tho
1980. # [22:55] <JKarsrud> heh
1981. # [22:55] <moo_> it is like creating email with XSLT!
1982. # [22:56] <moo_> so if you need to pick XML'ish language
1983. # [22:56] <moo_> pick XSLT
1984. # [22:56] <moo_> it is a standard
1985. # [22:56] <moo_> well known
1986. # [22:56] <moo_> supported by every run-tmie
1987. # [22:56] <moo_> fast, compiles to native code
1988. # [22:56] <moo_> and so on
1989. # [22:56] <JKarsrud> mm
1990. # [22:56] <moo_> we did XSLT templates as far back as 2000
1991. # [22:57] <JKarsrud> we still use xslt templates in our cms
1992. # [22:57] <JKarsrud> but that's pretty old now, so I don't know what we'll use in the new version, but I'm guessing xslt there too, maybe. But I guess that depeneds on how the data is stored in the DB
1993. # [22:58] * so1980 is now known as miketaylr
1994. # [22:59] <moo_> JKarsrud: but that link you gave me
1995. # [23:00] <moo_> it gives some terrying PHP shivers in my back :)
1996. # [23:00] <moo_> does not look good... :)
1997. # [23:00] <moo_> at least make HTML tags as HTML
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2001. # [23:02] <JKarsrud> Well, that's what I like about spark, which was really what I pasted the link for. Showing how spark is compared to other popular view engines in .net
2002. # [23:02] <davidmurdoch> with MVC you can: ViewData.Message
2003. # [23:02] <davidmurdoch> wait, no thats because of .net 4
2004. # [23:02] <JKarsrud> yup
2005. # [23:03] <JKarsrud> nothing to do with mvc :)
2006. # [23:04] <davidmurdoch> Yah yah yah....i've had 15 hours of sleep over the last 3 days and worked about 38 hours. gimme a break.
2007. # [23:05] <davidmurdoch> well, off to my presentation. adios!
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2013. # [23:14] <uf0> why is it in pauls template he has @media screen and (max-device-width: 480px)
2014. # [23:14] <uf0> and not @media only screen and (max-device-width: 480px)
2015. # [23:14] <uf0> not the 'only' ?
2016. # [23:15] <div_sg> who does only?
2017. # [23:16] <uf0> i google and I see only recommendation
2018. # [23:16] <uf0> some not all
2019. # [23:16] <uf0> just wondering what's the point of it, what's its use
2020. # [23:16] <uf0> why use versus why not
2021. # [23:17] <div_sg> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-mediaqueries/#media1
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2023. # [23:17] <div_sg> is all you need
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2026. # [23:23] <uf0> ok
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2030. # [23:32] <euphorias> i like questions like that :)
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2033. # [23:43] <tw2113> what are some good interest areas to put on a resume? I have W3C/WhatWG web standards, helping further evolve the internet and how its used, and then API interaction and data utilization
2034. # [23:44] <tw2113> ooh "the open web"
2035. # [23:45] <tw2113> even better "semantic, accessible, open web"
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2037. # [23:46] <div_sg> i dunno who reads interest areas
2038. # [23:47] <div_sg> what people care about is what you know.
2039. # [23:47] <tw2113> i figure it'd be better than "activities" which listed drama club in college
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2041. # [23:49] <div_sg> as long as you have websites, work, references, tools, technologies down
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2043. # [23:50] <tw2113> thanks for the input div_sg
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2051. # Session Close: Sat Mar 05 00:00:00 2011

The end :)