/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-03-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Mar 06 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  11. # [00:18] <uf0> paul_rish: well whenever you get back i'm wondering why in your template
  12. # [00:18] <uf0> for media queries you don't use the 'only' keyword
  13. # [00:18] <uf0> and is there a reason you left it out
  14. # [00:18] <paul_irish> well
  15. # [00:18] <uf0> you use @media screen and (foo)
  16. # [00:18] <obert-> bar
  17. # [00:18] <uf0> and i see a bunch of @media only screen and (foo)
  18. # [00:19] <uf0> on other mobile recommendations
  19. # [00:19] <paul_irish> so that means the MQ wouldnt match in other media types.. like print/projection/tv
  20. # [00:19] <paul_irish> this all gets a little fuzzy because most UAs kinda break spec in relation to their media type
  21. # [00:19] <paul_irish> google tv for example will match TV but also match Screen
  22. # [00:20] <paul_irish> so hypothetically.. if you.. were using a printer or something and the size of the viewport was small enough for that MQ to kick in
  23. # [00:20] <paul_irish> would you want those styles to apply in print view?
  24. # [00:20] <uf0> but i'm specifically talking about 'only' keyword
  25. # [00:20] <paul_irish> i know man
  26. # [00:21] <paul_irish> only means ONLY SCREEN
  27. # [00:21] <uf0> oh ok
  28. # [00:21] <uf0> ahh alright
  29. # [00:21] <paul_irish> i can't think of a realistic application where `only` matters
  30. # [00:21] <paul_irish> tbh
  31. # [00:21] <paul_irish> i think its fine both ways
  32. # [00:21] <uf0> gotcha
  33. # [00:21] <paul_irish> ?g media queries spec
  34. # [00:21] <bot-t> paul_irish, Media Queries - http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-mediaqueries/
  35. # [00:22] <paul_irish> "User agents must process media queries starting with ‘only’ as if the ‘only’ keyword was not present."
  36. # [00:22] <paul_irish> heh
  37. # [00:22] <uf0> yea I read that but was confused
  38. # [00:22] <uf0> lol
  39. # [00:22] <paul_irish> ah i got it.
  40. # [00:22] <paul_irish> it matters when you're in a link tag
  41. # [00:22] <uf0> usually specs just confuse me more than just your basical explanation
  42. # [00:22] <uf0> which i get now
  43. # [00:23] <paul_irish> because old UAs will be like <link rel=stylesheet media="screen and ( ....
  44. # [00:23] <paul_irish> but only see media="screen" ..
  45. # [00:23] <paul_irish> and just apply it without evaluating the MQ
  46. # [00:23] <paul_irish> the 'only' throws them a curve ball
  47. # [00:24] <paul_irish> so they dont download that stylesheet
  48. # [00:24] <uf0> ummm.. so I imagine it's safer bet to use then to leave out, no?
  49. # [00:24] <paul_irish> it makes sense to use it in the link tag
  50. # [00:24] <paul_irish> but if its an inlined MQ in an existing stylesheet.. it doesnt matter.
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  52. # [00:24] <uf0> :) makes complete sense now
  53. # [00:24] <uf0> thanks
  54. # [00:25] <paul_irish> no prob. thanks for asking
  55. # [00:25] <paul_irish> hey wanna do me a favor
  56. # [00:25] <uf0> sure
  57. # [00:25] <paul_irish> uf0: edit this page https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/wiki/The-style and summarize that ^ so other people learn why :)
  58. # [00:26] <uf0> ok will do... I got one more for you
  59. # [00:26] <paul_irish> k
  60. # [00:27] <uf0> in your template you also use <header> <footer>
  61. # [00:27] <paul_irish> why not article?
  62. # [00:27] <uf0> but for the main content you use a <div id="main">
  63. # [00:27] <uf0> why not <section> ?
  64. # [00:27] <uf0> not article
  65. # [00:28] <paul_irish> can you make a compelling case that section is a more semantically appropriate element for all the uses that people will have from the h5bp?
  66. # [00:28] <paul_irish> i couldn't.
  67. # [00:28] <uf0> I have no idea
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  69. # [00:29] <uf0> I was just wondering why not if anything
  70. # [00:29] <uf0> i'm cool with div
  71. # [00:29] <paul_irish> me too.
  72. # [00:29] <paul_irish> i also try to avoid semantic debates
  73. # [00:29] <paul_irish> which this would cause :)
  74. # [00:30] <uf0> I'm confident in using header,footer,hgroup,article today
  75. # [00:31] <uf0> but all the other new ones I still scratch my head
  76. # [00:31] <uf0> like <section> <aside> <figcaption> etc..
  77. # [00:31] <uf0> but anyway that's all question i got for now
  78. # [00:33] <obert-> section is interesting perhaps
  79. # [00:36] <obert-> The section element represents a generic section of a document or application. A section, in this context, is a thematic grouping of content, -> if i got it,for example, i would to do something like <section><label></label><input></section>
  80. # [00:37] <uf0> i see
  81. # [00:37] <paul_irish> figure and figcaption are really nice
  82. # [00:37] <paul_irish> i use em for pictures with captions a lot
  83. # [00:37] <paul_irish> s'about it, really
  84. # [00:38] <obert-> mine is just a thought i would to know opinions,indeed
  85. # [00:38] <uf0> so instead of em you would use figcaption I assume
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  87. # [00:43] <obert-> no opinions?:P
  88. # [00:43] <tbranyen> uhhhh so html5 video doesn't have udp streaming capabilities... :(
  89. # [00:43] <paul_irish> :(
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  99. # [01:19] <uf0> paul_irish: Done. https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/wiki/The-style
  100. # [01:19] <uf0> feel free to change anything I missed
  101. # [01:20] <paul_irish> thanks!
  102. # [01:20] <paul_irish> lookin charp
  103. # [01:21] <uf0> np
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  126. # [02:14] <daleharvey> so anyone that does sammy type stuff, what would you think about something like http://pastebin.me/d66a6d92426552f737a8d2d2b40f78a3
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  133. # [02:36] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: i got the team assembled, woot
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  191. # [04:53] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: can you do me a favor?
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  210. # [06:15] <tw2113> lols http://webjam.lowfi.es/disappointment/
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  215. # [06:45] <niftylettuce> tw2113: haha
  216. # [06:47] <tw2113> you can thank HN for that one
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  221. # [07:13] <samot__> lol
  222. # [07:14] <samot__> im confused
  223. # [07:15] <tw2113> how so
  224. # [07:17] <tw2113> not sure the humor for that site i linked, samot__ ?
  225. # [07:18] <samot__> yeah
  226. # [07:18] <samot__> is it mocking all the new libraries that people are releasing
  227. # [07:18] <tw2113> well, aren't you disappointed that neither button does anything?
  228. # [07:19] <tw2113> check the source too
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  257. # [10:03] <niftylettuce> nn
  258. # [10:03] <niftylettuce> \o/
  259. # [10:03] <bman> night
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  269. # [10:50] <jus101> does navigator.geolocation.getCurrentPosition in Safari 5 ever return a position on a desktop mac? I see that chrome does, but nothing from Safari.
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  382. # [20:48] * obert- you all suck
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  388. # [21:23] <thatryan> :(
  389. # [21:24] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  390. # [21:25] <obert-> :D
  391. # [21:26] <obert-> thatryan what's happen
  392. # [21:26] <thatryan> doing stuff and stuff
  393. # [21:26] <thatryan> hecka exciting!
  394. # [21:27] <obert-> not to be sad then
  395. # [21:27] <thatryan> lol you said we suck
  396. # [21:27] <obert-> ah
  397. # [21:27] <obert-> me??
  398. # [21:27] <obert-> must be my cat
  399. # [21:27] <thatryan> lol
  400. # [21:28] <paul_irish> tell your cat to Be Nice!
  401. # [21:28] <thatryan> yeah, thats just a mean kitty
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  403. # [21:28] <obert-> usually he just jumps over the keyb and left a 'meow'
  404. # [21:28] <thatryan> albeit, a smart kitty ;)
  405. # [21:29] <tw2113> this is why cats shouldn't be online
  406. # [21:29] <tw2113> they take over
  407. # [21:29] <obert-> purr
  408. # [21:31] <tw2113> interesting question...how much of the internet would go missing if we removed every reference to cats
  409. # [21:31] <thatryan> enough :)
  410. # [21:31] <obert-> http://eeeeek.org
  411. # [21:31] <tw2113> it'd be a catpocolypse
  412. # [21:32] <obert-> ecco.
  413. # [21:32] <thatryan> lol nice
  414. # [21:33] <thatryan> no more puns for you
  415. # [21:34] <obert-> comic sans enters ina bar and orders a drink, the barman flatly refuses to serve him. 'why?' enquires the font. 'we dont want your type in 'ere'
  416. # [21:34] * Joins: jacine (~jacine@drupal.org/user/88931/view)
  417. # [21:34] <tw2113> 3 men walk into a bar, the 4th one ducks
  418. # [21:35] <thatryan> nooo
  419. # [21:35] <obert-> ????
  420. # [21:35] <obert-> ducks?
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  422. # [21:35] <tw2113> evades
  423. # [21:36] * Joins: KemKemKem (~KemKemKEm@79-74-239-229.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
  424. # [21:36] <KemKemKem> hi
  425. # [21:36] * Quits: Quilck (~Quilck@90.183.82.215)
  426. # [21:36] <tw2113> yo
  427. # [21:36] <obert-> evades??
  428. # [21:37] <KemKemKem> do you think html5 and java will enable instant chat rooms on more websites?
  429. # [21:37] <KemKemKem> I'd quite like to use it on a social network site and wondered if it was ready for mass adoption yet.. what are your views?
  430. # [21:38] <tw2113> no idea personally
  431. # [21:38] <obert-> 2 men walk into a bar, middle one has a hat
  432. # [21:38] <obert-> wtf??
  433. # [21:38] <KemKemKem> http://rumpetroll.com/ <-- good example of html5 in action
  434. # [21:39] <KemKemKem> i think it uses websockets but i love the fact you can just start chatting with no slow java client
  435. # [21:39] <thatryan> lol obert-
  436. # [21:39] <KemKemKem> are you gonna finish the joke albert?
  437. # [21:39] <obert-> i dont get this kind of humor though
  438. # [21:40] <tw2113> 3 men walk into it, because they don't see it or something, the 4th one does, and moves out of the way before hit
  439. # [21:40] <tw2113> it's very stupid humor but it amuses me a bit :D
  440. # [21:40] <obert-> ...
  441. # [21:40] <obert-> and then sex will exists
  442. # [21:40] <KemKemKem> i always liked... a horse walks into a bar... the barman says "why the long face?"
  443. # [21:40] <KemKemKem> simple but brilliant
  444. # [21:41] <tw2113> regarding the chat room stuff, you'd have to gauge your websockets support and how many browsers/versions you want to be able to access it
  445. # [21:42] <obert-> mah :)
  446. # [21:43] <KemKemKem> well i'm planning a new site so i have zero users to worry about.. I'm just trying to work out if i should discriminate against older browsers and go with the cutting edge stuff. Most of my users will be 20-30 anyway so i'd imagine they'd have fairly modern browsers or be willing to upgrade
  447. # [21:44] * Joins: skqr (~skqr@200.81.182.224)
  448. # [21:44] <KemKemKem> i haven't really noticed much html5 / websockets apps around.. but sites which do have them and the demos look great
  449. # [21:44] <tw2113> i have a site still in the works that is targeted at twitter users, so likely very few IE users
  450. # [21:45] <obert-> a neutron walks into a bar, the barman asks "What can I get for you?" Neutron answers "Just passing through"
  451. # [21:45] <KemKemKem> I'm currently trying to build a social network site that makes your social life public
  452. # [21:46] <KemKemKem> *groan
  453. # [21:46] <tw2113> isn't that all of them?
  454. # [21:46] <KemKemKem> nah, social media is suprisingly not very social
  455. # [21:46] <KemKemKem> i want to build a site where your social life is very public, every event you go to is shared with everyone
  456. # [21:47] <tw2113> i imagine that's on purpose to prevent outcries and mass exodus
  457. # [21:47] <obert-> why the fuck are you following me on facebook??
  458. # [21:47] <tw2113> see: every little privacy change facebook's done
  459. # [21:48] <KemKemKem> facebooks a bit rubbish at event organising though isn't it?
  460. # [21:49] <tw2113> i'm just saying, i imagine it'd be hard to find mass support for such a thing with every little detail public
  461. # [21:49] <KemKemKem> well, the only reason why it's an issue with facebook is really because of all the embarrassing pictures on there
  462. # [21:50] <KemKemKem> i don't think most people have a problem telling people what their social plans are, and if you do then you're not forced to join
  463. # [21:50] <tw2113> just expressing my thoughts on it
  464. # [21:50] <KemKemKem> but imagine if everyone made their plans public, and used the site to plan which events they were going to..if you could see all the social events your friends were going to each week
  465. # [21:50] <KemKemKem> would be very useful
  466. # [21:50] <tw2113> and very easy to stalk
  467. # [21:50] <KemKemKem> keep your thoughts coming, they're welcome :)
  468. # [21:51] <KemKemKem> that's half the point :)
  469. # [21:51] <KemKemKem> i want to make it easy to stalk your friends
  470. # [21:51] <tw2113> until psycho ex's show up
  471. # [21:51] <KemKemKem> psycho ex's are psycho ex's though... if that's a problem for you then you just stop using the site
  472. # [21:52] <KemKemKem> i think 99% of people don't have stalkers so i don't think it's quite as big an issue as people think it to be personally
  473. # [21:52] <tw2113> I wish you luck, but I don't have the best feelings about the plans :P
  474. # [21:53] <KemKemKem> heh, nah i definitely appreciate that it could be a tool for stalking
  475. # [21:53] <KemKemKem> but i think the positives outweigh the negatives for most people (as they don't have stalkers!)
  476. # [21:53] * Parts: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) ("IRC is just multiplayer notepad")
  477. # [21:54] <KemKemKem> you could get rid of the concept of friends too
  478. # [21:54] <KemKemKem> no adding or deleting, the people associated with you are the people you go to events with. Period.
  479. # [21:54] <KemKemKem> only slight issue is i've got to crowd-source every event going on in a city to make the site useful as a social planning tool
  480. # [21:57] <KemKemKem> so if you're free next tuesday and want to go out, the site will suggest an event for you which you and your friends have been on before.. if you go to a pub quiz every tuesday with four of your friends for several weeks last year, then it will be able to use this info to suggest that you go to a pub quiz etc...
  481. # [21:58] <KemKemKem> what's your twitter site about then?
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  487. # [22:09] <KemKemKem> http://e-skindoctor.co.uk/planner.jpg
  488. # [22:09] <KemKemKem> that's basically the idea
  489. # [22:10] <KemKemKem> so your social life is public, people can see what events you are going to and you can easily find events to attend in your city
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  493. # [22:33] <daleharvey> antonkovalyov: you around?
  494. # [22:36] <antonkovalyov> daleharvey, yeah
  495. # [22:36] <antonkovalyov> sup?
  496. # [22:37] <daleharvey> you had anyone get jshint working in emacs yet? just before I give it a shot
  497. # [22:39] <antonkovalyov> daleharvey, not that i know of
  498. # [22:42] * Joins: peol (~andree@unaffiliated/peol)
  499. # [22:43] <daleharvey> ok, will let you know how it goes
  500. # [22:44] <antonkovalyov> cool thanks!
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  527. # [23:36] <thatryan> hey paul_irish
  528. # [23:38] <paul_irish> sup
  529. # [23:39] <thatryan> how goes it
  530. # [23:39] <thatryan> taken over the world yet?
  531. # [23:44] <paul_irish> with a hangover. just about.
  532. # [23:44] <thatryan> lol winning
  533. # [23:44] <paul_irish> WINNNINGG
  534. # [23:44] <thatryan> damn it charlie
  535. # [23:45] <paul_irish> we're putting out a h5bp 1.0 RC like tomorrow or something
  536. # [23:46] <paul_irish> got modernizr 1.8 in the works too. amping it up for better plugins and extensibility
  537. # [23:46] <thatryan> with all the new changes? img and all? cool
  538. # [23:46] <thatryan> oh sweet, lots of stuff
  539. # [23:46] <nimbupani> yeah its about time.
  540. # [23:46] <thatryan> building in yepnope?
  541. # [23:46] <nimbupani> not in h5bp
  542. # [23:46] <paul_irish> not for 1.0. probably 1.1
  543. # [23:47] <paul_irish> when mod1.8 goes in
  544. # [23:47] <thatryan> cool, will give me time to understand how to use it better ;)
  545. # [23:47] <thatryan> wanna look at some jQuery? :D
  546. # [23:47] <paul_irish> sure
  547. # [23:48] <thatryan> for some reason, my $ is stopping working halfway through this... http://pastie.textmate.org/1640804
  548. # [23:48] <thatryan> and yes I am quite sure it is ugly
  549. # [23:49] <paul_irish> bro you gotta select less.
  550. # [23:49] <thatryan> lol
  551. # [23:49] <paul_irish> and DRY it
  552. # [23:49] <paul_irish> up
  553. # [23:49] <paul_irish> lets go to #jquery
  554. # [23:49] <thatryan> im not pre optimizing :)
  555. # [23:49] <thatryan> i was in there they are not helping :(
  556. # [23:50] <digitalfiz> I have charlie as my facebook profile pic :P
  557. # [23:51] <digitalfiz> http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Charlie-Sheen-Winning-Poster.jpg <-- that one
  558. # [23:52] <daleharvey> antonkovalyov: any chance of http://jshint.com/ giving you the options you have selected? :P
  559. # [23:53] <antonkovalyov> hm?
  560. # [23:53] * Joins: JKarsrud (~JKarsrud@178.74.12.26)
  561. # [23:54] <daleharvey> like with jslint, I have a bunch of options selected that I just wanna copy and paste, just mentioning for laziness sake, its nice for documentation as well
  562. # [23:54] <antonkovalyov> daleharvey, oh, in the works :)
  563. # [23:54] <antonkovalyov> brbr
  564. # [23:56] * Quits: huskyr (~huskyr@535506A5.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit: huskyr)
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  566. # Session Close: Mon Mar 07 00:00:00 2011

The end :)