/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-03-23 / end

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1. # Session Start: Wed Mar 23 00:00:00 2011
2. # Session Ident: #html5
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5. # [00:01] <paul_irish> http://mbostock.github.com/d3/ex/voronoi.html
6. # [00:01] <paul_irish> o.O
7. # [00:02] <nimbupani> WOOOO
8. # [00:02] <nimbupani> so hawt.
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10. # [00:06] <xonecas> Awesome :-)
11. # [00:06] <tw2113> dang
12. # [00:07] <paul_irish> https://bugs.webkit.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=55018&hide_resolved=0
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29. # [00:56] <grantg> hey xonecas: You might like http://www.grantgalitz.org/TetrisAttack/
30. # [00:56] <grantg> heh
31. # [00:57] <xonecas> LOL
32. # [00:58] <xonecas> Are you doing all of this for me? jk!
33. # [00:58] <grantg> Don't forget about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GBC_keypad_palettes.JPG
34. # [00:59] <grantg> heh
35. # [00:59] <grantg> colorz
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37. # [01:03] <danielfilho> anyone has feced this before? i've got a <select> with 2 options. when I single click on it (only in FF), it shows the options and hide them right after
38. # [01:03] <danielfilho> I'm getting crazy with it.
39. # [01:03] <danielfilho> there's no script setting any event on it.
40. # [01:03] <grantg> xonecas: The great thing is now people can run their own assembly code inside the gbc emu.
41. # [01:03] <danielfilho> the only thing is that i'm using html5 boilerplate
42. # [01:03] <grantg> Lower level than C
43. # [01:04] <grantg> right down to the opcode programming
44. # [01:04] <grantg> though they can always compile C code and run it in the JS GBC emu.
45. # [01:05] <grantg> xonecas: http://www.loirak.com/gameboy/gbprog.php
46. # [01:05] <grantg> legit
47. # [01:05] <grantg> ^_^
48. # [01:05] <grantg> run your C programs in yo browser, straight through js
49. # [01:05] <grantg> :)
50. # [01:06] <grantg> the compiler: http://gbdk.sourceforge.net/
51. # [01:06] <nimbupani> danielfilho: weird can you paste it?
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53. # [01:06] <grantg> xonecas: Screw LLVM. :P
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56. # [01:08] <danielfilho> yes nimbupani, 1 sec... will do it on jsfiddle
57. # [01:10] <danielfilho> nimbupani: http://jsfiddle.net/danielfilho/CeMnA/
58. # [01:10] <danielfilho> didn't uploaded the images and scripts. no need to.
59. # [01:11] <danielfilho> click on the combo with @ig.com.br on firefox. single click.
60. # [01:11] <grantg> paul_irish: If you're hardcore enough: http://www.otakunozoku.com/rednex-gameboy-development-system/
61. # [01:11] <grantg> inception w/ assembly programming
62. # [01:12] <grantg> RGBDS is a good assembler
63. # [01:12] <grantg> it isn't MASM, but it's an assembler for the GB-Z80 architecture.
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66. # [01:14] <chovy_> is there any method for pushing a file to the client? ie: downloading a pdf, other than the way it usually works?
67. # [01:14] <chovy_> ie: status bar, etc.
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69. # [01:16] <grantg> xonecas: MASM "cheats" by letting you use higher-level constructs, so it abstracts the opcodes into macros for you
70. # [01:16] <grantg> If someone wanted that, they should program in C. <_<
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78. # [01:23] <danielfilho> OH I KNOW WHAT IT IS
79. # [01:23] <danielfilho> shit.
80. # [01:23] <nimbupani> danielfilho: o whats it?
81. # [01:23] <danielfilho> the <label>
82. # [01:23] <danielfilho> <select> is inside <label>
83. # [01:23] <nimbupani> ha :)
84. # [01:23] <danielfilho> when i click on the select, it also clicks on the label.
85. # [01:23] * grantg notices http://metareddit.com/ exists.
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87. # [01:25] <danielfilho> thank you nimbupani :D
88. # [01:27] <grantg> xoncas: http://tinypic.cc/e9r3f
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93. # [01:31] <nimbupani> no worries danielfilho :)
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97. # [01:36] <grantg> Nooooooooo. http://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/b/
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117. # [02:09] <cheilmann> thought I take a stand: http://html5forxp.com/
118. # [02:09] <bot-t> (455 hours ago) <grantgalitz> tell cheilmann Zelda 4 lyfe
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124. # [02:28] <tw2113> submitted to reddit for you chovy_
125. # [02:28] <tw2113> er cheilmann
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128. # [02:32] <tw2113> paul_irish http://blog.androidsnippets.com/2011/how-html5-boilerplate-helped-drastically-improving-our-website-performance
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131. # [02:35] <nimbupani> tw2113: yah we saw :)
132. # [02:35] <nimbupani> also RTed from h5bp
133. # [02:35] <tw2113> good
134. # [02:35] <tw2113> it was in my tabs from my HN browsing
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146. # [03:11] <paul_irish> apparently his methodology was bad
147. # [03:12] <paul_irish> should fix that.
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153. # [03:22] <paul_irish> http://html5forxp.com/
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156. # [03:35] <tw2113> [08:06pm] <cheilmann> thought I take a stand: http://html5forxp.com/
157. # [03:36] <tw2113> :)
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159. # [03:37] <digitalfiz> can someone look at this my brain is hurting and i dont get why its not working
160. # [03:37] <digitalfiz> http://www.goldtradingpost.com/products/?pid=21
161. # [03:38] <digitalfiz> i have galleria at the top but when i call it halfway down the page it said no method found for galleria
162. # [03:38] <digitalfiz> but on this site it works same code basically
163. # [03:38] <digitalfiz> http://silver-pendants.org/products/john-deere-624j/
164. # [03:39] <digitalfiz> chromes debugger doesnt tell me anything is wrong until i call .galleria()
165. # [03:39] <digitalfiz> neither does firefox
166. # [03:39] <digitalfiz> IE does say something about a unexpected ; but i can never figure out where the errors are from the info that IE gives
167. # [03:42] <digitalfiz> ignore all the ugly code please :P
168. # [03:42] <digitalfiz> its a project that got dumped in my lap :/
169. # [03:50] <cheilmann> Galleria is Global
170. # [03:50] <cheilmann> not jQuery.Galleria
171. # [03:51] <digitalfiz> i didnt use jQuery.Galleria
172. # [03:52] <cheilmann> yes
173. # [03:52] <cheilmann> that is the error message
174. # [03:52] <digitalfiz> i have to use jQuery("#id").galleria() instead of $("#id").galleria() because jquery is in noconflict mode
175. # [03:52] <cheilmann> it seems the main galleria isn't loaded yet
176. # [03:53] <cheilmann> in any case this has exactly nothing to do with html5
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178. # [03:53] <digitalfiz> it errors on this line: jQuery('#productImages').galleria({
179. # [03:53] <digitalfiz> yes but all the cool jquery people hang out in here :P
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237. # [07:44] <dgathright> http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/22/chrome-11-beta/
238. # [07:44] <dgathright> HTML5 Speech Input API? Huh?
239. # [07:45] <dgathright> Is this anything that has gone through the w3c/whatwg, or is it just a proposal from Google?
240. # [07:45] <dgathright> paul_irish: ^
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243. # [08:01] <obert-> who is paul_irish? :D
244. # [08:03] <obert-> (:
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247. # [08:08] <paul_irish> dgathright: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/htmlspeech/2010/10/google-api-draft.html
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275. # [08:33] <dgathright> paul_irish: Cool, thanks, wanted to give it a review since I hadn't heard of it before. Found the proposal on the mailing list, but couldn't find the draft on w3.org.
276. # [08:35] <Samot> http://protosal.com:3000/
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286. # [09:08] <tjgillies> in canvas when i use fillStyle it changes all the rects that are already drawn on my canvas
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288. # [09:13] <grantg> paul_irish: I put back http://www.grantgalitz.org/SuperMarioLand2/
289. # [09:13] <grantg> and
290. # [09:13] <grantg> http://www.grantgalitz.org/PokemonGold/
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336. # [11:33] <Guest91201> hello, i was just wondering if javascript entries are still validd; thanks &{
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338. # [11:34] <Guest91201> &{myvar}
339. # [11:36] * Guest91201 is now known as jamesm-sitegen
340. # [11:39] <jamesm-sitegen> ???
341. # [11:41] <Dorward> jamesm-sitegen: I've never heard of "javascript entries" and never seen the syntax "&{myvar}" … and I've seen more then my fair share of JS.
342. # [11:41] <seutje> he prolly means css expressions
343. # [11:41] <bot-t> (11 hours 40 mins ago) <nimbupani> tell seutje https://twitter.com/jensimmons/status/50251837672132608 wut?
344. # [11:41] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/gdxosD @jensimmons: RT @drupalhtml5: HTML5 can *improve* your performance, not hurt it! #listenupdrupalgeeks
345. # [11:41] <socialhapy> http://t.co/Fb9YnfN
346. # [11:42] <seutje> no wait, I'm all confuzzled now
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353. # [12:07] <josefrichter> guys, when I use sel = window.getSelection(); and then r = sel.getRangeAt(0); how do I re-create the selection from the range then, please? I mean when I deselect the text, whether I can eg. select it again or highlight it or whatever.
354. # [12:08] <jamesm-sitegen> Dorward i have a book called html & xhtml by chuck musciano & bill kennedy and publushed with o'reilly books. on page 440 they tak about javascrippt entries
355. # [12:10] <jamesm-sitegen> character entries in html and xhtml consist of an ampersand & an entity name or number and a closing semicolon. for instance to innsert the ampersand character itsself in aaaa documennnt text flow
356. # [12:11] <jamesm-sitegen> use the cjaracter sequency &amp;
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358. # [12:13] <jamesm-sitegen> javascript entities consist of aampersaand , one or more jjavascriopt statements encloseed in curly brqaces folllowed by a semicolon
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360. # [12:17] <jamesm-sitegen> Dorward ive done lots of javascript mysql and i know i have not seen this before but in this book it talks about then a littttle bit.
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365. # [12:18] <jamesm-sitegen> myself * nott mysql
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367. # [12:22] <Dorward> jamesm-sitegen: I can only imagine that they are describing how to build a template language in JS in the book and that's a term they made up for it.
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415. # [14:55] <jetienne> is there a test to know if the browser support CORS ? chrome in my specific case
416. # [15:02] <paulrouget> jetienne: check the existense fo "withCredentials"
417. # [15:02] <paulrouget> of
418. # [15:02] <jetienne> paulrouget: thanks
419. # [15:02] <paulrouget> (in your XHR object)
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449. # [15:42] <BrianBlakely> I don't think this is accurate
450. # [15:42] <BrianBlakely> http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/23/firefox-4-clocks-up-5-million-downloads-within-first-24-hours-f/
451. # [15:42] <BrianBlakely> I think it's closer to 7m based on what paulrouget was saying (that Glow started at 7am PDT)
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453. # [15:44] <miketaylr> it's okay, it's just silly press
454. # [15:44] <miketaylr> the real winners are people who upgraded to a better browser
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456. # [15:45] <BrianBlakely> miketaylr: While I ultimately agree… that's so sappy ;P
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460. # [15:46] <miketaylr> BrianBlakely: :)
461. # [15:48] <paulrouget> BrianBlakely: we are writting a blog post with official numbers
462. # [15:49] <BrianBlakely> paulrouget: Cool!
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471. # [16:14] <jdalton> jetienne: Check out http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2010/05/25/cross-domain-ajax-with-cross-origin-resource-sharing/
472. # [16:14] <jdalton> checking for the withCredentials property wont work in IE8
473. # [16:16] <jetienne> jdalton: ok will do. currently i got weird result. ff does the post ok, chrome complains in the log "it is not allowed" but still does the post
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475. # [16:19] <jdalton> also check https://github.com/Modernizr/Modernizr/wiki/HTML5-Cross-browser-Polyfills
476. # [16:20] <jdalton> there is a section for CORS
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487. # [16:37] <zewt> bleh
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489. # [16:37] <Phrogz> Does the HTML5 spec cover how to handle known elements with invalid attribute combinations, e.g. <input type="complex-xy"> ?
490. # [16:38] <zewt> figured out where this weird empty space is coming from--it's aligning the table's baseline to an empty line of text of line-height height--but I still don't know *why* that empty line exists when there's no text
491. # [16:38] <zewt> http://zewt.org/~glenn/opera-test.html http://zewt.org/~glenn/opera-test-2.html
492. # [16:38] * Phrogz is reading through the parsing section right now, but not feeling it.
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494. # [16:38] <zewt> (happens in O11, IE9; not in Chrome 10 or FF)
495. # [16:41] <paul_irish> "the real winners are people who upgraded to a better browser" :D
496. # [16:41] <bot-t> (2 hours 51 mins ago) <Aamir> tell paul_irish is it a known issue with webkit and is there any fix for that? http://jsfiddle.net/dujdV/5/
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498. # [16:41] <bot-t> (16 mins 4 secs ago) <nimbupani> tell paul_irish how late have you laterbroed the bornebybp tweets? I have one more to add http://discoveryzone.be/
499. # [16:41] <paul_irish> shhh
500. # [16:42] <Phrogz> "how late have you laterbroed the bornebybp tweets"?? I swear, that _sounds_ like English.
501. # [16:42] <ralphholzmann> lol
502. # [16:42] <paul_irish> ?g laterbro
503. # [16:42] <bot-t> paul_irish, LaterBro.com - Schedule Facebook and Twitter updates - http://laterbro.com/
504. # [16:42] <paul_irish> best app ever.
505. # [16:44] <Phrogz> Ah, laterbroed == laterbro'd. Thanks :)
506. # [16:45] <Phrogz> Good app to make your friends think you're hardcore when you're tweeting at 3am?
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510. # [16:45] <Phrogz> I often think one of my coworkers has such a utility for Outlook, designed to make it look like he's working super hard outside normal office hours.
511. # [16:47] * psynaptic|food is now known as psynaptic
512. # [16:47] <paul_irish> yeah outlook has a scheduled send functionality
513. # [16:47] <paul_irish> always best to send your Round-Up Summaries at 7:30am
514. # [16:48] <paul_irish> i want that in gmail, bad
515. # [16:48] * psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|shower
516. # [16:49] <zewt> looks like I can work around the weirdness by adding vertical-align: top ... still curious why it's happening
517. # [16:50] <zewt> okay I don't get IE9's address bar at all
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519. # [16:50] <zewt> trying to test a site in it, I enter a URL ... and it seems like it refuses to actually load a page unless you explicitly prefix http://
520. # [16:50] <zewt> am I going insane or are they really doing that? heh
521. # [16:50] <zewt> entering a hostname goes directly to bing
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526. # [16:56] <paul_irish> BrianBlakely: i think this is ripe for your meta tag gist https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/pull/395#issuecomment-908133
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545. # [17:18] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: image_src has been deprecated in favor of <meta property="og:image" content="path_to_image" />
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547. # [17:18] <paul_irish> orly
548. # [17:18] <paul_irish> go tell 'em
549. # [17:19] <BrianBlakely> https://gist.github.com/581868 <- includes 3 general-purpose OpenGraph tags
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551. # [17:20] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Shared
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553. # [17:22] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Is there any way to filter out a specific resource type in Chrome Dev Tools (Resources tab)? I want to see only the images in a page…
554. # [17:23] <Phrogz> BrianBlakely: Use the Network tab and then click on "Images" at the bottom.
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556. # [17:24] <paul_irish> ^ :/
557. # [17:24] <BrianBlakely> Phrogz: Oh-ho! Thanks :)
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559. # [17:24] <Phrogz> You're welcome.
560. # [17:24] * psynaptic|shower is now known as psynaptic
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563. # [17:30] <xonecas> o/
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565. # [17:33] <paul_irish> http://www.shirtcity.co.uk/design/jabba-script-t-shirt-3908.html
566. # [17:33] <paul_irish> xonecas: sry i had to run! was a pleasure to chat :D
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568. # [17:33] <Michael> paul_irish, You buying that?
569. # [17:33] <paul_irish> nopeeee
570. # [17:34] <Michael> rofl @ the French Chewbacca
571. # [17:34] <Michael> What's the jQuery plugin for google maps that let's you customize the popup bubbles?
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574. # [17:37] <xonecas> :-) It was a pleasure to meet you, wie'll do it again sometime!
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578. # [17:38] <niftylettuce> hey anyone here have any cool links to presentations or talks that were given in HTML5/javascript versus traditional powerpoint/keynote???
579. # [17:38] <niftylettuce> I know paul_irish had a few links in past but not sure what they were --
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581. # [17:38] <xonecas> http://stateofhtml5.appspot.com/#slide1 niftylettuce
582. # [17:39] <xonecas> there you go, and you get to thank paul over there
583. # [17:39] <niftylettuce> xonecas: tyvm
584. # [17:39] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: tyvm!
585. # [17:39] <xonecas> :-)
586. # [17:39] <zewt> i don't think i'd want to give a presentation using JS at this point, heh
587. # [17:39] <zewt> unless I controlled the environment so I could test in advance
588. # [17:40] <xonecas> zewt: I would if I could do it from my laptop
589. # [17:40] <xonecas> aka safe enviroment
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592. # [17:41] <xonecas> niftylettuce: user chrome with that link
593. # [17:41] <niftylettuce> xonecas: huh?
594. # [17:41] <niftylettuce> xonecas: only works in chrome??
595. # [17:41] <niftylettuce> I could always have PPT backup
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598. # [17:41] <niftylettuce> dude you know how sweet it'd be to go to pitch to VC's tomorrow and then load up browser to present
599. # [17:41] <niftylettuce> NO OTHER TEAM will be doing that!!!!
600. # [17:42] <zewt> talk about really bad ideas :)
601. # [17:42] <niftylettuce> zewt: no I would still have a PPT backup =)
602. # [17:42] <niftylettuce> zewt: and remember full command to delete microosft powerpoint.exe from command line :)
603. # [17:42] <niftylettuce> tehehehe
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605. # [17:42] <zewt> even having an "oops something's broken let me switch to powerpoint" is probably something you really want to avoid :P
606. # [17:43] <zewt> i suppose you could be hoping that the person you're presenting to will infer "this guy has backups" instead of "something this guy did broke" :)
607. # [17:44] <xonecas> niftylettuce: yeah looks that way
608. # [17:44] <zewt> also some APIs are still broken when accessing via file:// :| particularly in chrome
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610. # [17:45] <niftylettuce> xonecas: looks what way?
611. # [17:45] <niftylettuce> by a vote, should I stick to PPT or go HTML5?
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617. # [17:56] <xonecas> niftylettuce: looks like you should use chrome. I say do whatever you feel that won't give you trouble
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629. # [18:05] <niftylettuce> xonecas: I'm going to bring my own laptop, just emailed a judge for the competitino
630. # [18:05] <niftylettuce> xonecas: screw Internet Explorer DEFAULT :)
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651. # [18:37] <masondesu> Happy Spring, html5!
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658. # [18:41] <BrianBlakely> ?tell nimbupani Thanks for the h5bp intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMEB78VX2P0). I've seen ImageAlpha, but never realized its value; it seems to do a way better job than PS. Also, I didn't know about .focusable (recent addition?)
659. # [18:41] <bot-t> BrianBlakely, Okay.
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662. # [18:42] <nimbupani> hey BrianBlakely my pleasure.
663. # [18:42] <bot-t> (56 secs ago) <BrianBlakely> tell nimbupani Thanks for the h5bp intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMEB78VX2P0). I've seen ImageAlpha, but never realized its value; it seems to do a way better job than PS. Also, I didn't know about .focusable (recent addition?)
664. # [18:42] <nimbupani> yes .focusable is a recent one.
665. # [18:48] <mike5w3c> anybody here using django-cms?
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667. # [18:51] <xonecas> BrianBlakely: hey I meant to ask yesterday, can you give me an one liner picth on phonegap. Kind of a I use phonegap because....
668. # [18:51] <xonecas> I just started diving into the docs today
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672. # [18:57] <djazz> is there any way to wrork around localStorage's QUOTA_EXCEEDED_ERR-error in chrome web apps?
673. # [18:58] <djazz> or its Web SQL only?
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683. # [19:08] <djazz> imo, "unlimitedStorage" sounds pretty much more than 2.5 Mb
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686. # [19:10] <BrianBlakely> xonecas: Sorry, was AFK — "I use PhoneGap because it enables OS-level features via wrappers for W3C standards. There is no 'PhoneGap API'… you just learn in-draft or already-implemented standards."
687. # [19:10] <BrianBlakely> xonecas: Is that clear?
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690. # [19:11] <alcuadrado> when would people in here stop supporting FF3.6? a couple of months?
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693. # [19:14] <xonecas> BrianBlakely: yes, so you use html5 and css3 standards and phonegap translates it into native code, do I get it right?
694. # [19:14] <BrianBlakely> Yep!
695. # [19:15] <xonecas> That explains why I couldn't really find an api spec
696. # [19:15] <BrianBlakely> That's right… there is none!
697. # [19:15] <xonecas> thats awesome
698. # [19:15] <xonecas> can't wait to get started
699. # [19:15] <BrianBlakely> But there is documentation for the syntax (that you've probably already seen): http://docs.phonegap.com/
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701. # [19:34] <xonecas> Thats what I'm currently reading :-)
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713. # [19:59] <BrianBlakely> alcuadrado: What is there to support in FF3.6? If you're using CSS Transitions (FF4, Webkit), then you probably already have a JS animation fallback for IE<9, right? FF3.6 should scoop that up as well.
714. # [20:01] <alcuadrado> interesting point
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728. # [20:20] <davidmurdoch> anyone in here good with Flash?
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731. # [20:22] <Jackneill> flash lol
732. # [20:22] <Jackneill> forgot it
733. # [20:22] <Jackneill> use html5
734. # [20:22] <Jackneill> :D
735. # [20:22] <davidmurdoch> This is an AIR application
736. # [20:23] <davidmurdoch> so, I guess the realy question is is anyone good with Actionscript 3?
737. # [20:23] <davidmurdoch> specifically: var frame:HTML = new HTML(); frame.id = "myid"; addElement(frame);
738. # [20:24] <davidmurdoch> then i want to get that HTML element I just added to the stage by its ID
739. # [20:24] <davidmurdoch> stage.getChildById doesn't exist
740. # [20:24] * Joins: grantg (42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15)
741. # [20:25] <davidmurdoch> and I can't figure out how to get stage.getChildByName("myid") to convert to an "HTML" object
742. # [20:25] <grantg> paul_irish: I just noticed chrome performs so much better on my code now.
743. # [20:25] <grantg> When I rewrote the video ode, I guess chrome was able to jit it better.
744. # [20:26] <grantg> When I throw it into minimal view mode (1:1 no scaling) the CPU load is approx. 38%
745. # [20:26] <grantg> and that's with sound output too
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747. # [20:26] <grantg> it's seriously the scaling of the gfx that slows it down below fullspeed.
748. # [20:26] <pa7> hi #html5
749. # [20:26] <grantg> And the audio support in chrome needs bug fixes. :/
750. # [20:27] <zewt> when I checked last chrome's video scaling was next to useless, as if it wasn't optimized for video at all yet
751. # [20:27] <zewt> html5 video is sort of crippled until there's a fullscreen api anyway :|
752. # [20:27] <grantg> zewt: grantgalitz.org/KirbysDreamLand2/ can't go fullspeed in chrome when it's scaled up
753. # [20:28] <grantg> also turn on web audio in about:flags for less crummy audio
754. # [20:28] <zewt> canvas, I assume?
755. # [20:28] <grantg> yes
756. # [20:28] <grantg> chrome can barely do 10-15 fps in fullscreen
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758. # [20:28] <grantg> for a small canvas
759. # [20:28] <zewt> is chrome's 2d canvas GPU-accelerated? i forget--if it is, scaling should be almost free on most hardware
760. # [20:29] <grantg> not the scaling
761. # [20:29] <grantg> at least it doesn't feel so yet
762. # [20:29] <zewt> should be, not is :)
763. # [20:30] <Michael> I'm trying to use jQuery to select top level lists but not nested. Racking my brain
764. # [20:30] <zewt> wonder if webgl is any different (since obviously that's GPU)
765. # [20:30] <grantg> chrome actually outperforms firefox 4 in JS
766. # [20:30] <Michael> $('ul#categories > li') still affects ul#categories > li > ul > li
767. # [20:30] <grantg> but "in total" firefox 4 is faster when accounting for everything
768. # [20:31] <grantg> or so microsoft bitches about for IE9
769. # [20:31] <grantg> with accounting for perf of all systems
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775. # [20:35] <rgervais> ok Chrome and firefox, having the tabs at the top and not the bottom is annoying
776. # [20:35] <rgervais> not good UI
777. # [20:35] <rgervais> that's under the address bar
778. # [20:37] <zewt> heh i read something somewhere about moving tabs to the top "because they're more important than the address bar", which ... is completely backwards
779. # [20:37] <zewt> more important elements go closer to the center of the screen (the web page); the least important stuff goes at the outskirts of the screen (titlebar, menu bar)
780. # [20:40] <paul_irish> bot-t: tell alrra in the future check your git diff beforehand because commits with huge whitespace differences are very :(
781. # [20:40] <bot-t> paul_irish, Okay.
782. # [20:40] <zewt> (at least FF made it togglable, though--and I use vertical tabs anyway, which is bizarrely still not supported natively)
783. # [20:42] * Joins: diamonds (~diamonds@unaffiliated/t0nic)
784. # [20:42] <diamonds> hope you don't mind me cross-asking from #html
785. # [20:43] <diamonds> anywho I'm targeting modern (new, up to date) browsers and iPad, <audio>, is there any reason not to use .wav ?
786. # [20:43] <salazr> tab management to me is more crucial than url management..
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788. # [20:43] <diamonds> It works on ff,chrome,ipad as far as I can tell (tested the three just now)
789. # [20:44] <rgervais> i think the tabs are very important why is why i put it below the address bar
790. # [20:44] <rgervais> so if i'm in a website I can easily switch the next
791. # [20:44] <rgervais> without moving my mouse all the way up :)
792. # [20:44] <salazr> i suppose, if you are actually clicking the tab
793. # [20:44] <rgervais> you can easily switch back in ff but not i chrome
794. # [20:44] <salazr> but when you add keyboard shortcuts to the mix.. that becomes a non issue
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796. # [20:46] <rgervais> salazr: true, i've never used keyboard for switching tabs though
797. # [20:46] <rgervais> thanks for the tip!
798. # [20:46] <diamonds> must I display controls for html5 audio elements?
799. # [20:46] <rgervais> i just learned, ctrl + page up/down
800. # [20:46] <salazr> rgervais oh. it's a life changer
801. # [20:46] <diamonds> I want to hide them and play/stop them programmatically (don't worry, I'm not autoplaying or anything :)
802. # [20:46] <rgervais> salazr: you literally just changed my lazy life
803. # [20:46] <zewt> doesn't help much when you have 30 tabs open and the tab you want is 15 tabs away :)
804. # [20:47] <rgervais> and made it even lazier
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806. # [20:47] <rgervais> zewt: effin' true too
807. # [20:47] <rgervais> damnit
808. # [20:47] <zewt> technically it should--you should be able to keyboard repeat control-pgdn and move tabs quickly--but in practice with FF, it's too slow for that
809. # [20:47] <salazr> in practice with FF, i am scared of opening a new window even
810. # [20:47] <zewt> don't know if FF4 is since I'm still waiting on VertTabbar to try it, but it is in FF3.6
811. # [20:47] <rgervais> still though, keyboard shortcut awesom
812. # [20:48] <rgervais> ff 3.6 will be absolete in 2 months
813. # [20:48] <rgervais> prediction
814. # [20:48] <zewt> well it's just waiting for plugins to update
815. # [20:49] <zewt> most of the ones I use have, but not quite all
816. # [20:49] <rgervais> the good thing is, if you do "check for updates"
817. # [20:49] <rgervais> ff4 now comes up
818. # [20:49] <rgervais> yesterday it didn't
819. # [20:49] <rgervais> which is aweeesome as well
820. # [20:49] <rgervais> i'm loving these new
821. # [20:49] <rgervais> browsers
822. # [20:49] <rgervais> yes that includes IE9
823. # [20:50] <zewt> maybe I'm going blind, but how do you find updates for all extensions in FF4?
824. # [20:50] <rgervais> developing is becoming fun
825. # [20:50] <zewt> oh it's hidden in the little gear dropdown; not good UI, that...
826. # [20:51] <rgervais> 'gear dropdown'? where's that
827. # [20:51] <zewt> addons manager -> extensions -> gear icon in the top-right
828. # [20:51] <salazr> IE9 is cool.. i agree
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833. # [20:52] <rgervais> what's so awesome about FF4 and IE9
834. # [20:52] <salazr> granted, i'll never use it for anything other than development.. and their dev tools are horrendous
835. # [20:52] <rgervais> is can do border-radius and box-shadow without any prefixes!!!!
836. # [20:52] <zewt> IE9's in-browser dev stuff isn't terrible
837. # [20:52] <rgervais> fuckin' greatt
838. # [20:52] <zewt> not as good as chrome's, but better than some browsers'
839. # [20:53] <rgervais> oh bla bla -mozz -webkit
840. # [20:53] <rgervais> so annoying
841. # [20:53] <salazr> zewt: not terrible.. just seems to lack any ux
842. # [20:53] <rgervais> ff4 and ie9 listens to my
843. # [20:53] <rgervais> nice css rules
844. # [20:53] <rgervais> and chrome
845. # [20:53] <rgervais> safari you still gotta do -webkit
846. # [20:53] <rgervais> safari you're dumb now
847. # [20:53] <zewt> i still find the dev tools (dom viewers, javascript debugging) in all browsers except Chrome to be really bad
848. # [20:53] <rgervais> upgrade soon
849. # [20:54] <rgervais> chrome dev tools SUX
850. # [20:54] <rgervais> ie dev tools SUX
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852. # [20:54] <rgervais> firebug = AWEsome
853. # [20:55] <zewt> firebug is useless, in my experience--it makes FF randomly freeze up for 15-30 seconds all the time (even when firebug isn't being used at all)
854. # [20:55] <swalk> im guessing you havent used chrome dev tools lately...
855. # [20:55] <swalk> they're much improved lately
856. # [20:55] <zewt> so I'd have to constantly enable and disable the extension and restart FF when I need it--not an option
857. # [20:55] <rgervais> zewt: it freezes for YOU. fixed
858. # [20:55] <swalk> and better than firebug imo now
859. # [20:55] <zewt> what? heh
860. # [20:55] <rgervais> i always have fbug open
861. # [20:55] <rgervais> have no issues at all
862. # [20:56] <salazr> i have no freezes with firebug, running it 24/7 too
863. # [20:56] <zewt> i don't care if it works for other people if it doesn't work for me :)
864. # [20:56] <rgervais> zewt: lol the point is, it's your problem
865. # [20:56] <rgervais> not firebugs
866. # [20:56] <zewt> uh, no
867. # [20:56] <rgervais> fix your computer
868. # [20:56] <rgervais> i'd take survey and ask everyone in this channel
869. # [20:56] <zewt> when i enable firebug, firefox freezes randomly. therefore, firebug is causing the problem.
870. # [20:57] <rgervais> if firebug freezes, and i'd bet that percentage is low
871. # [20:57] <zewt> maybe it's caused by an interaction with another plugin (though I wasn't able to narrow it to anything like that), but as a user it doesn't matter to me
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873. # [20:58] <rgervais> zewt: yea it could very well be that another plugin is causing it, who knows
874. # [20:58] <zewt> (iirc it looked like a weird GC loop--FF would start busy looping and using more and more memory, then after a while it'd reach about 1GB and somehow recover)
875. # [20:58] <rgervais> firebug did have memory leak issues but that was loooong time ago
876. # [20:59] <rgervais> not anymore and hopefully not in future
877. # [20:59] <salazr> zewt: not surprising, in my experience, firefox has always leaked, specially on OS X
878. # [20:59] <salazr> but it's manageable..
879. # [21:00] <zewt> well, it wasn't just a leak--the browser UI would freeze entirely and FF would chew CPU
880. # [21:00] <rgervais> you know what, i didn't mention i'm on win7
881. # [21:00] <salazr> zewt: that's kind of what i meant.. just general instability to the point of beach balls
882. # [21:00] <salazr> but it's gotten better with time, specially if you use it for development with just 1 tab :)
883. # [21:01] <zewt> i'm not starting up a separate browser instance to work around extension bugs when Chrome's stuff just works :)
884. # [21:01] <salazr> oh for sure. i'm a big fan of the webkit inspector.. but i like firebug better and this is why i develop in FF
885. # [21:01] <zewt> (and since Chrome's stuff works fine for me, I havn't had much impetus to try Firebug recently)
886. # [21:02] <salazr> old habits die hard
887. # [21:02] <zewt> well yeah we all like what we're used to, heh
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889. # [21:04] <salazr> for the record, my biggest pet peeve with webkit's inspector is the source/dom view has no opacity stuff going on.. in firebug there's a nice basic opacity scale, so you'r selected element is surrounded by faded out elements, makes it so much easier to work with IMO
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892. # [21:05] <zewt> i really don't get why FF4 now has two consoles, the error console and the web console
893. # [21:05] <zewt> strange that they're not just merged
894. # [21:07] <moo-_-> zewt: hmm?
895. # [21:07] <zewt> hmm!
896. # [21:07] <moo-_-> two consoles, how?
897. # [21:07] <moo-_-> at least in my firebug there is one
898. # [21:07] <moo-_-> or I don't get it
899. # [21:07] <zewt> tools->error console, tools->web console
900. # [21:08] <moo-_-> ooooh
901. # [21:08] <moo-_-> new goodies
902. # [21:08] * moo-_- likes
903. # [21:08] <zewt> very similar functionality
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905. # [21:09] <moo-_-> I'd assume error console will be phased away
906. # [21:09] <moo-_-> but I can ask mozilla folks
907. # [21:10] <zewt> well, web console doesn't show the CSS warnings the error console does (yet? there's a "CSS" box...); also can't undock it from the page
908. # [21:10] <zewt> but yeah hopefully eventually
909. # [21:10] <moo-_-> I don't like floating windows, thus I am biased to prefer web console
910. # [21:11] <zewt> should be able to toggle it--for example, often I don't want to change the layout of the page, which web console forces
911. # [21:12] <zewt> iirc, console.log only goes to the web console, which I think is why I noticed it in the first place
912. # [21:12] <moo-_-> zewt: how about firebug console window?
913. # [21:12] <zewt> i don't use firebug
914. # [21:12] <moo-_-> can't you de-dock that
915. # [21:12] <moo-_-> zewt: it's a good day to try it again :)
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919. # [21:15] <salazr> lol
920. # [21:16] * Quits: Neiluj_ (~Julien@195.200.175.214) (Read error: Operation timed out)
921. # [21:17] <diamonds> anyone know about starting/stopping <audio> on iPad in a callback?
922. # [21:17] <diamonds> I hear one can't start it "automatically" but I'm wondering if a click event is fired, can I run little slideIn type thing then start it on callback
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925. # [21:21] <paul_irish> @jon_neal has a link somewhere to him starting it automatically
926. # [21:21] * Joins: andr3 (~andr3@bl14-162-163.dsl.telepac.pt)
927. # [21:21] <diamonds> paul_irish: was that meant for me?
928. # [21:22] <rgervais> paul_irish: question, do you feel sites built 2 weeks should be support FF4 and IE9?
929. # [21:23] <paul_irish> diamonds: yes
930. # [21:23] <paul_irish> rgervais: of course.
931. # [21:23] <rgervais> or how fast do we tell clients, oh we need to wait a month until FF passes 3%
932. # [21:23] <rgervais> in statistics
933. # [21:23] <paul_irish> how hard it is to support ff4?
934. # [21:23] * Quits: Michael (~disney@unaffiliated/jabberwock) (Quit: Leaving)
935. # [21:23] <paul_irish> answer: not hard at all.
936. # [21:23] * Joins: robhawkes (~robhawkes@87-194-135-193.bethere.co.uk)
937. # [21:23] <paul_irish> robhawkes: !
938. # [21:23] <rgervais> i agree with you, i'm just asking because folks at my company are at odds
939. # [21:23] <rgervais> i can agree maybe ie9 we shouldn't support
940. # [21:24] <rgervais> but ff4?
941. # [21:24] <robhawkes> Hey!
942. # [21:24] <paul_irish> rgervais: sites have to be supporting FF4 and IE9 as of now
943. # [21:24] <zewt> what does "support FF4" mean?
944. # [21:24] <paul_irish> they shoudl be getting this message from their developers before they start getting shat on by their users
945. # [21:24] <rgervais> paul_irish: give me a reason
946. # [21:24] <paul_irish> a reason why you should not ignore your users?
947. # [21:24] <zewt> what is there that works in FF3.6 that requires additional work to enable in FF4?
948. # [21:25] <zewt> (maybe some context I missed)
949. # [21:25] <diamonds> what the hell... if you don't support ie9 ff4.... ??? what are you planning to... are you moving backward in time? I don't understand
950. # [21:25] <rgervais> lol you guys are the best
951. # [21:25] <paul_irish> <3
952. # [21:25] <rgervais> i thought i was the only one
953. # [21:25] <rgervais> i'm sorry but i'm in a corporate companyh
954. # [21:25] <diamonds> rgervais: tell them if you don't support ie9 you will have to remake the site in 6mo
955. # [21:26] <paul_irish> also its not hard to support new browsers.
956. # [21:26] <diamonds> not totally... "accurate" but it sounds like they don't understand the tech *at all* so it shouldn't matter
957. # [21:26] <nimbupani> really i dont even get this "support" biz.
958. # [21:26] <paul_irish> but if you're leaving FF4 and IE9 out of your QA cycle then you're fucking yourself.
959. # [21:26] <felcom> the new browsers should really be supporting us, thats the shift that is happening
960. # [21:26] <zewt> that sounds anatomically improbable
961. # [21:27] * Quits: KMFrog (~Frog@78-23-103-45.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
962. # [21:28] <nimbupani> hey robhawkes! congrats again :)
963. # [21:29] <xonecas> The more browsers you support the better it is for the users, saying that you should wait for users to adopt a browser before supporting its nonsense. And besides the new browsers should be really easy to support...
964. # [21:29] <robhawkes> nimbupani: Thanks dude! :D
965. # [21:29] <rgervais> thanks guys
966. # [21:29] <paul_irish> hahaha he called you dude
967. # [21:29] <nimbupani> >_>
968. # [21:29] <xonecas> :-)
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970. # [21:30] * Joins: Thasmo (~thasmo@d86-32-70-59.cust.tele2.at)
971. # [21:30] <xonecas> robhawkes: havent you seen the new h5bp video, staring nimbupani ?
972. # [21:30] * Quits: andr3 (~andr3@bl14-162-163.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: andr3)
973. # [21:30] <nimbupani> :||||
974. # [21:30] * Quits: cesarstafe (~cesarstaf@190.188.29.121) (Remote host closed the connection)
975. # [21:30] <xonecas> :-)
976. # [21:31] <robhawkes> What have I done?
977. # [21:31] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-bwgblyqhhbbexfde)
978. # [21:31] <paul_irish> you called a woman "dude"
979. # [21:31] <diamonds> paul_irish: you don't happen to have a link to that ipad start audio thing do you?
980. # [21:31] <paul_irish> faux pas!
981. # [21:31] <robhawkes> So? I call women "guys" as well
982. # [21:31] <robhawkes> :D
983. # [21:32] <diamonds> I followed the link on html5 boilerplate to your friend's site but it's http://www.iecss.com/
984. # [21:32] <paul_irish> diamonds: https://twitter.com/#!/jon_neal/status/5181542682861568
985. # [21:32] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/i1w1L0 @jon_neal: Background audio on the iOS mobile webkit? Yup, we got that. http://j.mp/c4zCwE
986. # [21:35] <felcom> Is it just me or does that not respect the phone's volume level?
987. # [21:35] <felcom> Not that I just embarrassed myself in front of coworkers or anything
988. # [21:35] <diamonds> felcom: you adjust volume and it doesn't have an affect on the playback?
989. # [21:36] <felcom> Didn't seem to
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992. # [21:36] <diamonds> ty paul_irish
993. # [21:37] <diamonds> it doesn't work often enough on this ipad for me to call it "working" but it's good to know
994. # [21:37] <diamonds> about 10% of the time I click the button it plays...
995. # [21:38] <diamonds> heh... just got a stack of "The file is not available" alerts. but I thought clicking repeatedly was best practice when something isn't working...
996. # [21:38] * Joins: [1]TorontoDave (~torontoda@bas2-oshawa95-1177801730.dsl.bell.ca)
997. # [21:38] <djazz> so.. which is better for key-value storage? localStorage (max 2.5 Mb) or Web SQL (max 5 i think)?
998. # [21:39] <swalk> well... do you need more than 2.5mb?
999. # [21:39] <djazz> yes
1000. # [21:39] * Joins: kor (~kor@ip146-53-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
1001. # [21:39] <swalk> then i guess you have your answer?
1002. # [21:39] <djazz> i need more than 5 mb
1003. # [21:39] <swalk> so why were those the only options??
1004. # [21:39] <swalk> in that case
1005. # [21:39] <moo-_-> djazz: iphone?
1006. # [21:40] <swalk> use something like mongodb or a similar store with a rest api
1007. # [21:40] * Quits: JustLiving (~Quilck@90.183.82.215) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
1008. # [21:40] <swalk> couchapp maybe
1009. # [21:40] * Quits: robhawkes (~robhawkes@87-194-135-193.bethere.co.uk) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
1010. # [21:40] * Joins: robhawkes (~robhawkes@87-194-135-193.bethere.co.uk)
1011. # [21:42] <djazz> its intended to be used in a chrome app, with "unlimitedStorage", unfortunately it dont wont work with localStorage
1012. # [21:43] <djazz> Web SQL seems.. overkill..
1013. # [21:44] * Joins: JustLiving (~Quilck@90.183.82.215)
1014. # [21:44] <djazz> does Web SQL support binary data? utf-8?
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1017. # [21:47] <digitalfiz> why do you need so much space?
1018. # [21:47] <digitalfiz> 5mb is a lot of space for text
1019. # [21:47] <djazz> what about base64 encoded png images?
1020. # [21:47] <jetienne> text ?
1021. # [21:48] <digitalfiz> oh your storing images too
1022. # [21:48] <djazz> i could store the original binary data, but localStorage dont support binary, only UTF-16 (in chrome atleast)
1023. # [21:48] * Joins: cocoadaemon (~cocoadaem@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:20d:93ff:fe3b:868c)
1024. # [21:48] <jetienne> try to you do "du -s ~/" and see if get less than 5mbyte :)
1025. # [21:49] <zewt> i remember some talk about being able to get object URLs for indexeddb blobs (to eg. load PNGs as a URL directly out of the DB), though I don't know if that exists yet
1026. # [21:49] <djazz> is the a way to get the current storage usage in bytes?
1027. # [21:50] <moo-_-> zewt: I think I saw that for Firefox, but it might have been just techdemo
1028. # [21:51] <djazz> does the key values count in to the storage? ^^
1029. # [21:51] <zewt> that's implementation-defined, afaik
1030. # [21:53] <djazz> the base64 encoded pngs are 8 to 9 times as big as the original file
1031. # [21:54] <moo-_-> base64 should increase size only by factor of 1/4?
1032. # [21:54] <moo-_-> 3 bytes in 4 characters?
1033. # [21:54] <moo-_-> but it is utf-16?
1034. # [21:54] <rgervais> paul_irish: when will firefox 3 phase out
1035. # [21:54] <rgervais> is a better question
1036. # [21:54] <djazz> oups wrong, 3 times*
1037. # [21:54] <rgervais> we do we not support ff3???
1038. # [21:54] <rgervais> when do we i mean***
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1041. # [21:55] <diamonds> rgervais: it has to do with your target demographic, your goals, your budget, and what exactly you're doing
1042. # [21:55] <tw2113> whenever you feel like not supporting it
1043. # [21:56] <rgervais> diamonds: here's an example a site a cnn.com
1044. # [21:56] <diamonds> rgervais: what is the thing you want to do that you're concerned won't work on ff 3.6?
1045. # [21:56] <rgervais> or youtube that receives alot of traffic
1046. # [21:56] * Quits: cocoadaemon (~cocoadaem@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:20d:93ff:fe3b:868c) (Quit: cocoadaemon)
1047. # [21:56] <rgervais> when does it start to not support firefox 3
1048. # [21:56] <rgervais> ?
1049. # [21:57] <tw2113> it's all choice by the people behind the sites
1050. # [21:57] <rgervais> diamonds: i'm not concerned at all
1051. # [21:57] <diamonds> rgervais: is your name Sergei Brinn?
1052. # [21:57] <rgervais> it's corporate thats concerned
1053. # [21:57] <rgervais> corporate world i live in
1054. # [21:57] <rgervais> my argument is we support ff4 now
1055. # [21:58] <diamonds> rgervais: if you can't tell us what you're doing that you're worried won't work, I don't think anyone can/will bother trying to help you
1056. # [21:58] <moo-_-> rgervais: we cannot decide for the corporation (tm)
1057. # [21:58] <moo-_-> it is your own choice
1058. # [21:58] <moo-_-> :)
1059. # [21:58] <djazz> http://www.jazz2online.com/jcf/showpost.php?p=354465&postcount=6 <-- file format specification for the file I am reading
1060. # [21:58] <tw2113> support in that you create stuff that is bound to work only for that advanced of a browser?
1061. # [21:58] <diamonds> <h1> should work in ff4, if that's what you're worried about. ;)
1062. # [21:58] <rgervais> diamonds: as I said before i'm NOT worried
1063. # [21:58] <diamonds> rgervais: ok then problem solved! :)
1064. # [21:58] <rgervais> i'm asking
1065. # [21:59] <rgervais> when do we start not supporting ff3
1066. # [21:59] <tw2113> i find it an odd statement "we support $latestbrowserreleasedyesterday"
1067. # [21:59] <rgervais> it's a general question
1068. # [21:59] <moo-_-> rgervais: when your corporation does not have it anymore installed?
1069. # [21:59] * Quits: skqr (~skqr@extwdig.dig.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1070. # [21:59] <tw2113> whenever you feel like you don't need to support it
1071. # [21:59] <moo-_-> rgervais: it is too generic to be answerable
1072. # [21:59] <rgervais> i gave an example, site like youtube.com
1073. # [21:59] <moo-_-> rgervais: it is not related, as it is not corporate site
1074. # [21:59] <paul_irish> rgervais: ff3.0 ? it's dead.
1075. # [22:00] <rgervais> no FF 3.6
1076. # [22:00] <paul_irish> 3.5 is almost dead.. 3.6 is very much alive
1077. # [22:00] <paul_irish> depends on FF upgrade rates
1078. # [22:00] <rgervais> or whatever is latest
1079. # [22:00] * Joins: skqr (~skqr@extwdig.dig.com)
1080. # [22:00] <paul_irish> watch your analytics.
1081. # [22:00] <tw2113> 3.6 will be around for awhile
1082. # [22:00] <paul_irish> consider the cost of supporting them
1083. # [22:00] <rgervais> paul_irish: thanks now we're getting somewhere
1084. # [22:00] <moo-_-> rgervais: getting help to guestions like this IRC is little hopeless. You need to narrow down it to very specific use case if you want to get any meaningful help. Otherwise we can discuss all night long :)
1085. # [22:00] <rgervais> tw2113: that's what i'm trying to figure out
1086. # [22:00] <rgervais> is a month, 2 months
1087. # [22:00] <rgervais> etc...
1088. # [22:01] <tw2113> think of it this way...we're still talking IE6 10 years later
1089. # [22:01] <moo-_-> rgervais: this might help you to narrow down the question http://blog.mfabrik.com/2011/03/17/rfc-simple-internet-question-asking-protocol-for-human-beings/
1090. # [22:01] <paul_irish> your analytics will paint you a nice chart in a few weeks
1091. # [22:01] <tw2113> it all depends on users and traffic that you receive
1092. # [22:01] <tw2113> and i'll attribute anyone not using IE, to being more likely to upgrade regularly
1093. # [22:01] <rgervais> paul_irish: I just wanted like a consesus in general like, generally ff3.6 will phase out 3 months
1094. # [22:01] <rgervais> and ff4 will take over
1095. # [22:02] <paul_irish> depends on your users.
1096. # [22:02] <rgervais> but i'll do that analytics to see
1097. # [22:02] * Joins: Laurian (~Laurian@87.114.197.120)
1098. # [22:02] <rgervais> yea gotcha
1099. # [22:02] <tw2113> 3 months sounds a bit too short
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1101. # [22:03] <tw2113> woohoo! FF4 is the dominant version for my primary site visitor stats
1102. # [22:03] * Quits: Jon47 (~jon47@204.56.125.50) (Quit: Leaving.)
1103. # [22:03] <rgervais> tw2113: what site is that :)
1104. # [22:03] <rgervais> moo-_-: thanks
1105. # [22:03] <tw2113> michaelbox.net
1106. # [22:04] <tw2113> however, i do have 1 visit from 3.0.11
1107. # [22:04] <tw2113> boo! Opera: 6, IE: 27
1108. # [22:04] <zewt> sounds like you have quite the sample set :)
1109. # [22:05] <tw2113> google analytics ftw?
1110. # [22:06] <OreoCookie> no chrome?
1111. # [22:06] <tw2113> that's #2 in the list, i just didn't comment
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1114. # [22:11] <zewt> on one GA site I have access to, in the last two days with ~135000 visits, looks like 12% of FF users are on FF4 so far
1115. # [22:11] <rgervais> zewt: what's GA?
1116. # [22:11] <zewt> which seems pretty good
1117. # [22:11] <zewt> google analytics
1118. # [22:12] <rgervais> oh ok
1119. # [22:12] <zewt> and 8% of IE users on IE6 D:
1120. # [22:12] <rgervais> pfftt
1121. # [22:12] <rgervais> fuck ie6, that's dead
1122. # [22:13] <rgervais> I can say that with for sure!
1123. # [22:13] <zewt> a browser is dead when people don't use it :(
1124. # [22:13] <rgervais> zewt: it's dead in my mind
1125. # [22:13] <zewt> we don't even try to make things work in IE6 and it's totally broken, so I'm sure most of those don't stick around, heh
1126. # [22:14] <zewt> actually, it's not much changed on the "time on site" metric
1127. # [22:14] <zewt> i guess anyone still on IE6 is just used to everything being horrible
1128. # [22:14] * Joins: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch)
1129. # [22:14] <zewt> heh a handful of people reporting IE4.01 and IE5.5
1130. # [22:15] <zewt> could just be weird robots
1131. # [22:15] <JoshManders> I still rock IE5.5
1132. # [22:15] <JoshManders> It's Internetting in GOD MODE
1133. # [22:15] <OreoCookie> lol
1134. # [22:15] <OreoCookie> ^5
1135. # [22:16] <JoshManders> ^5
1136. # [22:16] <JoshManders> So who's the tard face raging about FF3.6? I want to point and laugh.
1137. # [22:17] <paul_irish> those arent nice words.
1138. # [22:17] <JoshManders> Sorry Paul.
1139. # [22:17] <zewt> heh PS3 browser
1140. # [22:17] <zewt> .40%!
1141. # [22:17] <JoshManders> s/tard/derp
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1147. # [22:20] <rgervais> good article here with info: http://gs.statcounter.com/press/firefox-4-hits-the-ground-running-and-eclipses-internet-explorer-9
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1149. # [22:21] <rgervais> basically says FF4 has already taken 1.95% of the worldwide
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1152. # [22:22] <rgervais> market
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1156. # [22:22] * Quits: romainhuet (~romainhue@pro75-4-82-238-200-10.fbx.proxad.net) (Client Quit)
1157. # [22:22] <JoshManders> Soooo 10.05% less than IE6's market share?
1158. # [22:23] * Quits: LongBeach (~mike@AFontenayssB-152-1-59-147.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr)
1159. # [22:23] * Quits: JustLiving (~Quilck@90.183.82.215) (Client Quit)
1160. # [22:23] <rgervais> JoshManders: yea today, tell me that in a month
1161. # [22:23] * Quits: JNZ (JNZ@unaffiliated/jnz) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1162. # [22:23] <JoshManders> JUST SAYIN BRAH
1163. # [22:24] <rgervais> yea i'm just sayin' too
1164. # [22:24] <JoshManders> So I take it you're the dude who's raging about FF3.6?
1165. # [22:25] <rgervais> not raging, simply asking when will it phase out
1166. # [22:25] <rgervais> the one raging is corporate
1167. # [22:26] * Quits: benschwarz (~benschwar@59.167.185.148) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
1168. # [22:29] <JoshManders> Corporate?
1169. # [22:29] <rgervais> ever heard of corporate world? google they = fox, cbs, abc, cnn
1170. # [22:29] <rgervais> etc...
1171. # [22:29] <JoshManders> What?
1172. # [22:29] <rgervais> they own a lot websites
1173. # [22:30] * Joins: chrislorenz (~chrislore@rrcs-76-79-247-242.west.biz.rr.com)
1174. # [22:30] <JoshManders> Sooooo what's wrong with FF3.6 that requires a phasing out?
1175. # [22:30] <rgervais> dude, ain't nothing wrong with ff3.6
1176. # [22:30] <rgervais> the problem with corp is that they don't want to support ff4
1177. # [22:31] <JoshManders> Wait, so you're getting denied access to a site because you use a NEW browser?
1178. # [22:31] <rgervais> because they're effin' dumb
1179. # [22:31] <tw2113> ........what?
1180. # [22:32] <rgervais> JoshManders: something like that, or more like if site doesn't look right well we don't support until 2months or whatever
1181. # [22:32] <rgervais> the rules are
1182. # [22:32] <JoshManders> I just went to CNN.com in FireFox 4 and had no problems
1183. # [22:32] * Quits: salazr_ (~salazr@bas15-toronto63-1279604850.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: salazr_)
1184. # [22:32] <rgervais> JoshManders: that's my point
1185. # [22:32] <rgervais> chances it will work lovely
1186. # [22:32] <JoshManders> ...
1187. # [22:32] <tw2113> a site coded for 3.6 will be absolutely FINE in 4
1188. # [22:32] <rgervais> but in corp terms.. there are rules
1189. # [22:33] <rgervais> tw2113: i completely agree man
1190. # [22:33] <JoshManders> I think you're rambling about something you don't understand.
1191. # [22:33] <rgervais> that's why i'm effin mad today
1192. # [22:33] <rgervais> JoshManders: you're the one who doesn't understand
1193. # [22:33] <tw2113> you work for people with their heads up their ass
1194. # [22:33] <rgervais> tw2113: you get it
1195. # [22:33] <rgervais> actually you hit it right on the nail
1196. # [22:33] <JoshManders> lolwut
1197. # [22:34] <tw2113> i say put new shit in despite them, and make sure you show them the sites on 3.6
1198. # [22:34] <tw2113> that way they don't know the difference
1199. # [22:34] <tw2113> then when they give the green like 6 months later, you can be like "we did it 6 months ago, sucka"
1200. # [22:34] <rgervais> all the sites I build will work for latest browsers and that's right even IE9
1201. # [22:34] <tw2113> oh look, time saved
1202. # [22:34] <rgervais> but that's me
1203. # [22:35] <rgervais> all other devs are too effin lazy
1204. # [22:35] <rgervais> not here on irc, but corp
1205. # [22:35] * Joins: alrra (592f527d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.47.82.125)
1206. # [22:35] <tw2113> lemme guess, they still think table layouts are a good idea
1207. # [22:36] <rgervais> how's this tw2113...
1208. # [22:36] <tw2113> add modernizr to your sites, if anyone asks, say it helps render 3.6
1209. # [22:36] <zewt> i think if they'd worried about "supporting ff4" then they don't know what a table is, heh
1210. # [22:36] <rgervais> they love using position: absolute for everything
1211. # [22:36] <tw2113> even the parent containers?
1212. # [22:36] <tw2113> do they ever use position: relative?
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1214. # [22:36] <rgervais> listen the point is, there dumb folks are bosses
1215. # [22:36] <rgervais> which is my frustration
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1218. # [22:37] <rgervais> and even devs
1219. # [22:37] <tw2113> not worth the frustration to bother with, i say start looking elsewhere
1220. # [22:37] <rgervais> and they're gonna say.. ooh we don't support fuckin ff4 or ie9
1221. # [22:37] <rgervais> i can understand ie9
1222. # [22:37] <rgervais> because in corp world the majority are xp users
1223. # [22:37] <rgervais> but ff4, wtf?
1224. # [22:38] <rgervais> ie9 they can talk a little
1225. # [22:38] <tw2113> isn't FF4 on XP?
1226. # [22:38] <rgervais> yes
1227. # [22:38] <tw2113> i think i heard that mozilla went back to 2000
1228. # [22:38] <rgervais> tw2113: i'm saying i argued for both even ie9
1229. # [22:38] <rgervais> but ie9 is only vista and win7
1230. # [22:38] <rgervais> so they have a case there
1231. # [22:38] <rgervais> but not FF4
1232. # [22:38] * tw2113 extends a tall finger to IE9
1233. # [22:38] <rgervais> because ff4 is obviously supported everywhere
1234. # [22:39] <rgervais> tw2113: whole nothing conversation
1235. # [22:39] * Quits: pratz (~quassel@115.252.128.220) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1236. # [22:39] <tw2113> show test cases of the sites in FF4, where they'll see nothing wrong
1237. # [22:39] <tw2113> i dunno, i'm just rambling by now
1238. # [22:39] <rgervais> :) same here...
1239. # [22:40] * Quits: [1]TorontoDave (~torontoda@bas2-oshawa95-1177801730.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1240. # [22:40] <rgervais> anywaysss...
1241. # [22:40] * Joins: pratz (~quassel@115.252.128.220)
1242. # [22:41] <tw2113> paulrouget is mozilla going to get a new world record?
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1245. # [22:43] <xonecas> great, my home contry no longer has a prime minister, hello anarchy
1246. # [22:43] * Joins: [1]TorontoDave (~torontoda@bas2-oshawa95-1177801730.dsl.bell.ca)
1247. # [22:43] <xonecas> http://www.demotix.com/news/633922/portugal-prime-minister-jose-socrates-resigns
1248. # [22:43] <nimbupani> xonecas: i heard he resigned over budget!
1249. # [22:44] <xonecas> yeah, he suggested this crazy plan to bring the country out or poverty, and it wasn't accepted
1250. # [22:45] <xonecas> it spanwed all kind adverse reactions from other politics and the general public
1251. # [22:45] <nimbupani> o o :/
1252. # [22:45] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-118-120.dynamic.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1253. # [22:45] <tw2113> i'd laugh if it worked
1254. # [22:45] <xonecas> I'm going there next month, maybe I can join in the riots, and finnaly get that last gen macbookpro
1255. # [22:45] <xonecas> :-)
1256. # [22:45] <xonecas> jk
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1298. # [23:55] <bencc> what is the name of the html5 feature that allows changing the url without reloading the page?
1299. # [23:57] <bencc> for example, try to click on one of the folders in chrome or ff https://github.com/jquery/jquery
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1302. # Session Close: Thu Mar 24 00:00:00 2011

The end :)