/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-03-31 / end

Options:

1. # Session Start: Thu Mar 31 00:00:00 2011
2. # Session Ident: #html5
3. # [00:06] * Quits: dcadenas_ (~dcadenas@r186-48-230-223.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Remote host closed the connection)
4. # [00:06] * Quits: komputes (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5. # [00:07] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
6. # [00:08] * Quits: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
7. # [00:09] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
8. # [00:12] * Joins: dguttman (~dguttman@cpe-75-85-0-213.socal.res.rr.com)
9. # [00:13] * Joins: JojoBoss (~quassel@69.169.159.105.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
10. # [00:13] * Joins: Brodingo (~Brodingo@cpe-70-116-2-207.austin.res.rr.com)
11. # [00:13] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-znsjhtfdpmbbpjfc)
12. # [00:23] * Quits: Feodoric (~Russ@c-98-220-233-251.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Quit: Forward... Into the PAST!)
13. # [00:23] * Quits: adamnbowen (~adamnbowe@c-98-220-233-251.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/)
14. # [00:23] * Quits: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
15. # [00:24] * Joins: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays)
16. # [00:30] * Parts: tylergillies (~tyler-iph@unaffiliated/tylergillies)
17. # [00:33] <mkwst> CrashTest_: boilerplate's l10n scripts are documented here http://projects.mikewest.org/static_gettext/ they're relatively generic for any static set of documents.
18. # [00:33] <mkwst> (he says, an hour or two after the fact)
19. # [00:34] <CrashTest_> lol, that's cool, I will check it out mkwst
20. # [00:36] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@rrcs-173-198-32-146.west.biz.rr.com)
21. # [00:39] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
22. # [00:45] * Quits: neuro_damage (~neuro@174-143-151-29.static.cloud-ips.com) (Quit: leaving)
23. # [00:46] * Quits: Rob (~robhawkes@87-194-135-193.bethere.co.uk) (Quit: Leaving...)
24. # [00:48] * Quits: EoN (~EoN@unaffiliated/eon) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
25. # [00:48] * Joins: EoN (~EoN@124.171.57.250)
26. # [00:48] * Quits: EoN (~EoN@124.171.57.250) (Changing host)
27. # [00:48] * Joins: EoN (~EoN@unaffiliated/eon)
28. # [00:49] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@c85-196-101-98.static.sdsl.no)
29. # [00:50] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
30. # [00:50] * Joins: danielfilho_ (~dcosta@200.226.123.253)
31. # [00:51] * Joins: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch)
32. # [00:53] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
33. # [00:53] * danielfilho_ is now known as danielfilho
34. # [00:54] * Joins: lintrix (~marcelsan@12.49.81.251)
35. # [00:54] * Quits: Evet (~Evet@nginx/adept/pdpc.active.evet) (Disconnected by services)
36. # [00:55] * Parts: lintrix (~marcelsan@12.49.81.251)
37. # [00:55] * Joins: lintrix (~marcelsan@12.49.81.251)
38. # [00:57] * Quits: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
39. # [00:59] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@c85-196-101-98.static.sdsl.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
40. # [01:03] * Joins: potatis_invalido (~chatzilla@78-69-155-129-no176.tbcn.telia.com)
41. # [01:06] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Remote host closed the connection)
42. # [01:06] * Quits: ericduran (~ericduran@173-203-243-241.static.cloud-ips.com) (Quit: ericduran)
43. # [01:07] * Quits: hubble (~hubble@173-165-61-105-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: hubble)
44. # [01:11] * Quits: henrikkok (~henrikkok@3306ds3-amb.0.fullrate.dk) (Quit: Leaving.)
45. # [01:11] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
46. # [01:17] * Quits: benv (~benv@75-101-56-240.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: Bye!)
47. # [01:17] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
48. # [01:17] * Joins: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5)
49. # [01:18] * Joins: xonecas (~sean@207.62.238.154)
50. # [01:20] * Joins: bentruyman (~bentruyma@24-148-24-69.c3-0.prs-ubr2.chi-prs.il.cable.rcn.com)
51. # [01:21] * Quits: obert- (~obert@host119-139-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
52. # [01:21] * Joins: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch)
53. # [01:21] * Quits: Brodingo (~Brodingo@cpe-70-116-2-207.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Brody's Computer used Hypnosis. It's super effective!)
54. # [01:23] * Joins: danielfilho_ (~dcosta@200.226.123.253)
55. # [01:25] * Quits: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch) (Client Quit)
56. # [01:25] <xonecas> o/
57. # [01:26] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
58. # [01:26] * danielfilho_ is now known as danielfilho
59. # [01:33] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
60. # [01:33] * Joins: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5)
61. # [01:35] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
62. # [01:36] * Joins: Juo (~Juo@unaffiliated/juo)
63. # [01:37] * Joins: obert- (~obert@host173-205-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
64. # [01:40] * Joins: madalu (~user@unaffiliated/madalu)
65. # [01:43] * Joins: danielfilho_ (~dcosta@200.226.123.253)
66. # [01:44] <BrianBlakely> Hi xonecas
67. # [01:44] <BrianBlakely> And away I go!
68. # [01:44] * Quits: BrianBlakely (~Adium@208.253.25.162) (Quit: Leaving.)
69. # [01:44] * Quits: chriseppstein (~chris@64.134.223.197) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
70. # [01:46] * Quits: ped_ (~ped@189.60.165.103) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
71. # [01:48] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
72. # [01:48] * danielfilho_ is now known as danielfilho
73. # [01:49] * Quits: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
74. # [01:50] * Quits: JojoBoss (~quassel@69.169.159.105.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
75. # [01:53] * Joins: JojoBoss (~quassel@69.169.159.105.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net)
76. # [01:56] * Joins: BrianBlakely (~Adium@208.253.25.162)
77. # [01:56] * Parts: BrianBlakely (~Adium@208.253.25.162)
78. # [02:01] * Joins: addyosmani (~apple@host86-162-32-205.range86-162.btcentralplus.com)
79. # [02:03] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
80. # [02:03] * Joins: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5)
81. # [02:05] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-znsjhtfdpmbbpjfc) (Quit: dgathright)
82. # [02:05] * Joins: jochen___ (~jochen@nat/google/x-oxbpdigyunshjtkv)
83. # [02:08] <tw2113> hey...Firefox4 was showing a typo'd tag in bold red....cool
84. # [02:08] * Joins: danielfilho_ (~dcosta@200.226.123.253)
85. # [02:09] * Quits: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-poulbossfaoovdbv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
86. # [02:09] * jochen___ is now known as jochen__
87. # [02:10] <zewt> heh, ff4 is released and it's back into that couple week phase of working-around-ui-nits
88. # [02:11] <zewt> i need to hack together something to get rid of the chromish floaty URL thing :|
89. # [02:12] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
90. # [02:12] * danielfilho_ is now known as danielfilho
91. # [02:12] * Quits: Juo (~Juo@unaffiliated/juo) (Quit: Juo)
92. # [02:15] * Quits: Frippe (~Frippe@unaffiliated/frippe) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
93. # [02:17] <paulrouget> zewt: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/status-4-evar/ ?
94. # [02:18] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
95. # [02:18] * Joins: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5)
96. # [02:19] * Joins: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
97. # [02:19] <zewt> iirc a previous ff4 beta put the hovered URL at the right edge of the address bar ... which was sort of annoying (wrong side of the screen), but 100x better than what happened in the final
98. # [02:23] * Joins: ryth (~ryth@mgfcon.lnk.telstra.net)
99. # [02:23] * ryth is now known as neutralthoughts
100. # [02:26] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com)
101. # [02:29] <paulrouget> zewt: ?
102. # [02:29] * Joins: danielfilho_ (~dcosta@200.226.123.253)
103. # [02:29] <paulrouget> zewt: oh, you don't like the "bubble style" status bar?
104. # [02:30] <zewt> no: it's distracting (especially on dark-background pages), and it covers up the active part of the screen that should be "owned" by pages, not the browser
105. # [02:31] <paulrouget> zewt: when we put it in the address bar, a lot of people yelled. Then we put it back in the bottom of the screen. Now, other people yell because we moved it.
106. # [02:31] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224124076.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
107. # [02:32] * Joins: jblanche (~jblanche@ivr94-10-88-177-169-11.fbx.proxad.net)
108. # [02:33] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054055240.adsl.alicedsl.de)
109. # [02:33] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
110. # [02:33] * danielfilho_ is now known as danielfilho
111. # [02:39] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
112. # [02:39] * Joins: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5)
113. # [02:44] <potatis_invalido> I think the best approach would be to show it below the cursor or below the link. (Not that I claim to know anything about design.)
114. # [02:44] * Joins: danielfilho_ (~dcosta@200.226.123.253)
115. # [02:44] * Quits: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
116. # [02:45] <potatis_invalido> and if there's a title=, show it in the same little bubble.
117. # [02:45] <zewt> that would be a bit on the invasive side--most of the time it's not important information
118. # [02:46] <zewt> which is what bothers me about it the most right now: it actively draws attention to itself by appearing and disappearing all the time
119. # [02:46] * Joins: ped_ (~ped@189.60.165.103)
120. # [02:47] <zewt> actually, putting it in the context menu (as a non-selectable text item) could be good: if I want to know where a link goes, I just right-click it
121. # [02:47] <zewt> or hover over the context menu, etc
122. # [02:47] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
123. # [02:47] * danielfilho_ is now known as danielfilho
124. # [02:51] * Quits: themiddleman (~rob@c-67-186-244-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
125. # [02:51] * Joins: niftylettuce (~niftylett@h247.119.232.68.ip.windstream.net)
126. # [02:52] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
127. # [02:54] * Quits: chachan (~quassel@200.109.135.10) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
128. # [02:54] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
129. # [02:54] * Joins: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5)
130. # [02:57] * Quits: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
131. # [02:57] * Joins: amrith (~quassel@110.225.65.124)
132. # [02:57] * Joins: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays)
133. # [03:01] * psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|away
134. # [03:09] * Joins: danielfilho_ (~dcosta@200.226.123.253)
135. # [03:10] * Quits: niftylettuce (~niftylett@h247.119.232.68.ip.windstream.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
136. # [03:10] * Quits: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
137. # [03:11] * Joins: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays)
138. # [03:12] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
139. # [03:12] * danielfilho_ is now known as danielfilho
140. # [03:16] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
141. # [03:16] * Joins: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5)
142. # [03:22] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@184-225-38-188.pools.spcsdns.net)
143. # [03:25] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054055240.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
144. # [03:25] * Parts: potatis_invalido (~chatzilla@78-69-155-129-no176.tbcn.telia.com)
145. # [03:26] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054052135.adsl.alicedsl.de)
146. # [03:28] * Joins: niftylettuce (~niftylett@h247.119.232.68.ip.windstream.net)
147. # [03:31] * Joins: danielfilho_ (~dcosta@200.226.123.253)
148. # [03:31] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@184-225-38-188.pools.spcsdns.net) (Quit: dgathright)
149. # [03:32] * Joins: themiddleman (~rob@c-67-186-244-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
150. # [03:35] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
151. # [03:35] * danielfilho_ is now known as danielfilho
152. # [03:36] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054052135.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
153. # [03:36] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054054132.adsl.alicedsl.de)
154. # [03:41] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
155. # [03:41] * Joins: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5)
156. # [03:42] * Joins: BrianBlakely (~Adium@user-12lcpu4.cable.mindspring.com)
157. # [03:42] * Parts: BrianBlakely (~Adium@user-12lcpu4.cable.mindspring.com)
158. # [03:52] * Joins: danielfilho_ (~dcosta@200.226.123.253)
159. # [03:54] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.5) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
160. # [03:54] * danielfilho_ is now known as danielfilho
161. # [03:54] * Quits: chrislorenz (~chrislore@rrcs-76-79-247-242.west.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
162. # [04:03] * Joins: chachan (~quassel@200.109.135.10)
163. # [04:03] * Quits: danielfilho (~dcosta@200.226.123.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
164. # [04:08] * Quits: jblanche (~jblanche@ivr94-10-88-177-169-11.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jblanche)
165. # [04:09] * Joins: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
166. # [04:09] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054054132.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
167. # [04:09] * Joins: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch)
168. # [04:11] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054055064.adsl.alicedsl.de)
169. # [04:16] * Parts: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
170. # [04:20] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
171. # [04:23] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@user-160vrg5.cable.mindspring.com) (Quit: miketaylr)
172. # [04:25] * Quits: lintrix (~marcelsan@12.49.81.251) (Quit: Lost terminal)
173. # [04:26] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@24-148-24-69.c3-0.prs-ubr2.chi-prs.il.cable.rcn.com) (Quit: bentruyman)
174. # [04:27] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054055064.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
175. # [04:29] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054055067.adsl.alicedsl.de)
176. # [04:31] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@netDHCP-169.keio.w3.org) (Quit: kennyluck)
177. # [04:36] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@rrcs-173-198-32-146.west.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
178. # [04:40] * Quits: niftylettuce (~niftylett@h247.119.232.68.ip.windstream.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
179. # [04:42] * Quits: amrith (~quassel@110.225.65.124) (Remote host closed the connection)
180. # [04:45] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054055067.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
181. # [04:45] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122254.adsl.alicedsl.de)
182. # [04:47] * Joins: Brodingo (~Brodingo@cpe-70-116-2-207.austin.res.rr.com)
183. # [04:48] * Quits: xonecas (~sean@207.62.238.154) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
184. # [04:53] * Joins: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
185. # [04:54] * Quits: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
186. # [04:55] * Joins: dr_ick (~dr_ick@c-67-171-240-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
187. # [04:57] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122254.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
188. # [04:59] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054055116.adsl.alicedsl.de)
189. # [05:03] <themiddleman> turns out web workers kinda suck
190. # [05:04] * Joins: bentruyman (~bentruyma@24-148-24-69.c3-0.prs-ubr2.chi-prs.il.cable.rcn.com)
191. # [05:08] <zewt> they're just very rudimentary right now
192. # [05:09] * Quits: antonkovalyov (~antonkova@75-101-56-240.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
193. # [05:09] <themiddleman> yeah, they have potential
194. # [05:09] <zewt> they're useful for certain use cases, but there are a lot of things that people expect when they hear "threads" that simply isn't practical yet
195. # [05:10] <zewt> which makes most people come to the conclusion that they suck. heh
196. # [05:10] <zewt> (which is fair, if you need to do one of those things)
197. # [05:11] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054055116.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
198. # [05:13] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054054061.adsl.alicedsl.de)
199. # [05:13] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: davidwalsh)
200. # [05:14] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@184-195-239-235.pools.spcsdns.net)
201. # [05:14] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@184-195-239-235.pools.spcsdns.net) (Changing host)
202. # [05:14] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
203. # [05:15] <humph> we've used workers a lot, and gotten some big wins with them
204. # [05:16] <themiddleman> humph: doing real time work like games or just heavy processing loads?
205. # [05:16] <humph> have you seen the demo we just built for the firefox 4 launch?
206. # [05:16] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
207. # [05:16] <humph> it uses workers a lot
208. # [05:16] <themiddleman> no comply?
209. # [05:16] <humph> yes
210. # [05:17] <themiddleman> yeah that was an awesome demo, mind if I ask what you did with workers?
211. # [05:17] <humph> we do a few things
212. # [05:17] <humph> one thing is parsing the collada data into 3D scene graphs
213. # [05:17] <humph> it's super expensive to do on the main thread
214. # [05:17] <humph> so we build the 3D stuff in a preloader
215. # [05:17] * Quits: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
216. # [05:17] <humph> while the earlier scenes are playing
217. # [05:18] <themiddleman> oh nice
218. # [05:18] <humph> we also use it for our octree implementation, so we can cull lights and geometry
219. # [05:18] <humph> without threads, this thing couldn't really run
220. # [05:18] <humph> if we'd had more time, I wanted to thread the gml parser too
221. # [05:18] <humph> it is pretty heavy still
222. # [05:19] <themiddleman> wow
223. # [05:19] <humph> at any rate, I'd recommend them
224. # [05:19] <themiddleman> did you do anything with them like per frame though? like calculating data for the next frame?
225. # [05:20] <zewt> a bunch of limitations i've found make them hard to use--at least for the stuff I considered it for
226. # [05:20] <humph> you don't want to pay for the serialization per frame
227. # [05:20] <humph> 16ms isn't long
228. # [05:20] <themiddleman> I know :)
229. # [05:20] <zewt> an annoying one is no way to synchronously receive messages from a number-cruncher worker (eg. without returning to the worker's event loop)
230. # [05:21] <humph> @secretrobotron on twitter knows a lot about them if you want to talk to someone
231. # [05:22] <humph> you can do a hell of a lot of work in 16ms, though
232. # [05:22] <humph> we do a ton of stuff in that time
233. # [05:22] <zewt> the shared-worker stuff looks interesting, though I havn't hit a reason to play with them just yet
234. # [05:22] * Joins: chrislorenz (~chrislore@76.91.179.147)
235. # [05:23] <themiddleman> yeah, im (starting) making a tower defense game and I want it to be able to handle a ton of moving stuff and run fullscreen
236. # [05:23] <zewt> humph: more like: 16ms isn't much time at all--so workers let you do expensive work without cutting into a realtime renderer's limited time at 60hz
237. # [05:23] <humph> depends how you break up your workload, I guess
238. # [05:23] <zewt> (and without the brittleness of slicing up work and trying to do it piecemeal)
239. # [05:23] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054054061.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
240. # [05:25] * Joins: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch)
241. # [05:25] * Quits: CrashTest_ (~pteglia@c-66-235-13-223.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
242. # [05:25] <themiddleman> it takes about 0.12ms to hit a worker and come back
243. # [05:25] <humph> what do you mean?
244. # [05:26] <humph> postMessage to it?
245. # [05:26] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122243.adsl.alicedsl.de)
246. # [05:26] <themiddleman> from main thread - message sent to worker - worker sends a message back
247. # [05:27] <themiddleman> so I have 2 loops going, one is just getting updates from the worker (limited to 60 fps ish) and the other is just drawing frames (on a animfation frame)
248. # [05:27] <humph> what about tiling?
249. # [05:28] <themiddleman> idk what that means, Im not a game programmer :)
250. # [05:28] <humph> sorry, I mean have the worker(s) split up the main screen for processing it
251. # [05:28] <humph> even the main thread could do a hunk
252. # [05:29] <humph> what are you doing that's so expensive you can't do it on the UI thread?
253. # [05:29] <themiddleman> every calculation except for rendering
254. # [05:29] <humph> I bet that's not necessary
255. # [05:30] <humph> we're doing all our realtime audio calculations (mix-down, fft, beat detection, etc.) on the main thread
256. # [05:30] <humph> it's cheap
257. # [05:30] <humph> esp. if you use typed arrays
258. # [05:30] <themiddleman> hmm
259. # [05:30] <humph> are you on mac?
260. # [05:30] <themiddleman> my main motivation is to experiment with workers not be practical :)
261. # [05:30] <themiddleman> linux
262. # [05:31] <humph> ah, well
263. # [05:31] <humph> experiment away then
264. # [05:32] * Joins: ccl (~chatzilla@rrcs-173-197-3-190.west.biz.rr.com)
265. # [05:33] <themiddleman> Its weird though, running 1 loop which waits for the worker to do calculations then rendering gives a higher framerate than the 2 loop thing
266. # [05:34] <humph> what's the 2nd loop doing?
267. # [05:35] * Joins: dcadenas (~dcadenas@186-8-35-163-dynamic.movinet.com.uy)
268. # [05:35] <themiddleman> the worker loop updates an array of objects and the second one loops through and draws the stuff in those objects to canvas
269. # [05:35] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122243.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
270. # [05:36] * Quits: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
271. # [05:37] * Quits: chachan (~quassel@200.109.135.10) (Remote host closed the connection)
272. # [05:39] * Quits: chrislorenz (~chrislore@76.91.179.147) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
273. # [05:40] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-251-107.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
274. # [05:42] <themiddleman> humph: what were you getting at with the mac? I have a mbp too
275. # [05:42] * Joins: niftylettuce (~niftylett@h247.119.232.68.ip.windstream.net)
276. # [05:43] <humph> oh, just that if you run nightlies you can use Shark to get a sense of where your app is spending its time
277. # [05:43] <humph> e.g., in js, canvas, gl, gpu, etc.
278. # [05:43] <themiddleman> shark eh?
279. # [05:43] <humph> seeing the profile for the browser running is useful
280. # [05:43] <humph> I almost always have it open
281. # [05:43] <humph> it's how we get most of our perf info
282. # [05:44] <humph> sometimes you'll be js-bound and not know it
283. # [05:46] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122225.adsl.alicedsl.de)
284. # [05:49] <niftylettuce> perrfffffff
285. # [05:54] * Quits: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-251-107.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
286. # [05:56] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
287. # [05:56] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@c-24-16-155-210.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
288. # [05:56] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@c-24-16-155-210.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Changing host)
289. # [05:56] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
290. # [05:57] * Quits: madalu (~user@unaffiliated/madalu) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
291. # [06:00] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@24-148-24-69.c3-0.prs-ubr2.chi-prs.il.cable.rcn.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
292. # [06:01] * Joins: LongBeach (~mike@AFontenayssB-152-1-16-225.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr)
293. # [06:01] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@cpe-76-90-139-148.socal.res.rr.com)
294. # [06:10] * Quits: addyosmani (~apple@host86-162-32-205.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: addyosmani)
295. # [06:11] * Joins: Jackneill (~Jackneill@91-82-66-143.pool.invitel.hu)
296. # [06:25] * neutralthoughts is now known as Sam0t
297. # [06:27] * Joins: antonkovalyov (~antonkova@adsl-75-18-228-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
298. # [06:29] * Joins: grantg (~chatzilla@c-66-229-101-15.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
299. # [06:30] <grantg> paul_irish: I updated my nearest-neighbor scaling algorithm for my emulator, now chrome renders it 3x faster.
300. # [06:30] <grantg> actually fullspeed even at 400x400
301. # [06:30] <grantg> while having chrome do its default blur scaling is slo-mo even at that resolution
302. # [06:31] <grantg> the native scaling is too damn slow in chrome
303. # [06:31] <grantg> :/
304. # [06:31] <grantg> especially when scaling gfx in JS is faster than native
305. # [06:31] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@cpe-76-90-139-148.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
306. # [06:34] <grantg> Peter`: Does V8 trace?
307. # [06:34] <grantg> After leaving the res the same for a few seconds chrome seems to optimize the for loops
308. # [06:34] <grantg> for the scaling algo
309. # [06:35] <grantg> huh
310. # [06:36] * Joins: Killman (~killman@186.3.10.3)
311. # [06:36] * Quits: Killman (~killman@186.3.10.3) (Changing host)
312. # [06:36] * Joins: Killman (~killman@unaffiliated/killman)
313. # [06:38] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-qsifmpomijipqgln)
314. # [06:40] * grantg says nevermind
315. # [06:41] * grantg notices blitting is the culprit to the heavy load jump
316. # [06:41] <grantg> damnit google chrome. <.<
317. # [06:43] <grantg> scumbag google chrome takes 2/3 of the time running the JS gameboy color emulator rendering the resulting image from putImageData...
318. # [06:46] * Quits: dcadenas (~dcadenas@186-8-35-163-dynamic.movinet.com.uy) (Remote host closed the connection)
319. # [06:49] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@adsl-75-4-207-135.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
320. # [06:53] <tw2113> if only all browsers were made equally
321. # [06:53] <zewt> that would suck
322. # [06:53] <zewt> give me browsers with different capabilities and different bugs, so each browser can see what it's doing wrong
323. # [06:54] <tw2113> logic overload!
324. # [06:54] <zewt> D:
325. # [06:58] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@186.112.5.183)
326. # [06:58] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@186.112.5.183) (Changing host)
327. # [06:58] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
328. # [06:59] <grantg> hmm
329. # [06:59] <grantg> Took chrome 5 minutes before it picked back up to fullspeed
330. # [07:00] <grantg> like it's doing something retarded for 5 minutes, then realizing it should be doing something else.
331. # [07:00] <grantg> :/
332. # [07:00] <grantg> I don't even...
333. # [07:01] <tw2113> some browsers just don't grow the same parts at the same rate at the same time....
334. # [07:01] <grantg> heh, the scaling algo I wrote takes up 10% of the CPU time, another 20% is to GBC emulation
335. # [07:01] <grantg> the rest taken up by chrome to render the resulting image
336. # [07:01] <grantg> D:
337. # [07:02] <grantg> yo dawg, it should be the other way around. 8(
338. # [07:02] <tw2113> i'm strangely glad that chrome is 2nd in something
339. # [07:03] <grantg> I need to poke around the rendering path for putImageData in webkit
340. # [07:03] <grantg> this is just abnormally slow
341. # [07:06] <grantg> Here's my framebuffer scaling function: https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online/blob/master/js/GameBoyCore.js#L5908
342. # [07:07] <grantg> notice it's just a for loop with an inner for loop
343. # [07:07] <grantg> and the loop code part is just 5 lines...
344. # [07:07] <grantg> TM in firefox should trace this very well at least.
345. # [07:10] * Joins: BigKing (~BigKing@p5DCE826A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
346. # [07:12] <grantg> paul_irish: I saw an html5rocks post on pixelated sprites
347. # [07:12] <grantg> this algo should help
348. # [07:12] <grantg> since it does nearest-neighbor scaling. :)
349. # [07:13] <grantg> just scale the original sprite by grabbing its pixel data from getimagedata
350. # [07:13] <grantg> pass it through here
351. # [07:13] <grantg> and then putimagedata to a new sprite image
352. # [07:14] <grantg> you'll need to just modify this slightly
353. # [07:15] * Joins: elfgoh (~Adium@adsl28.dyn208.pacific.net.sg)
354. # [07:16] <zewt> at one point i tried implementing image zooming, eg. like mousewheel zooming in an image viewer; you see some interesting behavior between browsers there, the different optimization strategies become very visible
355. # [07:16] <grantg> zewt: If you do this scaling in js when "preloading" your images, then you have 1:1 sprites that are pixelated to the way you like.
356. # [07:17] <zewt> eg. FF (3.6 at the time, IIRC) seemed to scale images at paint time, so rendering is a little slow, but if you zoom in on a big image it's fairly consistent
357. # [07:17] <zewt> whereas chrome (8? 9?), IIRC, seemed to scale the entire image just once when you changed the scale; rendering was much faster, but there was a huge hitch whenever the zoom level changed
358. # [07:17] <grantg> zewt: Though you need not to do nearest-neighbor scaling in js for firefox 3.6+
359. # [07:17] <grantg> thanks to -moz-crisp-edges
360. # [07:18] <zewt> this was just CSS scaling and differences in the browser's internal image scaling methods
361. # [07:18] <grantg> zewt: Yeah, but notice chrome only lets you do bi-linear scaling
362. # [07:19] <zewt> well, for the particular case that's all I wanted (it was an image viewer, so nearest scaling would have been too low-quality)
363. # [07:19] <grantg> If you want to do nearest-neighbor on purpose, then you'll need to either have your images already scaled, or do it in js with something like my js
364. # [07:19] <zewt> but yeah I wish it was possible to more directly hint the scaling algorithm, between nearest (very fast), bilinear (fast/decent quality), and slower, high-quality scaling
365. # [07:20] <grantg> zewt: scaling through CSS should always be faster
366. # [07:20] <grantg> but doing putImageData through chrome when the canvas has been scaled via CSS is slow as hell.
367. # [07:20] <grantg> even for a 50x50 canvas
368. # [07:21] <grantg> heck even a 25x25 canvas in chrome can't do 60 fps here.
369. # [07:21] <zewt> the sort of UI I was looking for was eg. mousewheel zooming in and out in Photoshop ... i should probably revisit it since both chrome and FF have had a major release since then
370. # [07:21] <grantg> zewt: You can implement a fast gaussian blur algorithm in js
371. # [07:21] <zewt> this is just zooming the image with CSS
372. # [07:22] <grantg> zewt: True
373. # [07:22] <zewt> eg. with a large (say, 3000x3000) image, zooming in a notch would freeze for 500ms or so in chrome
374. # [07:22] <grantg> If some browsers are giving you a hard time you can always scale and cache the 1:1 result in js. :P
375. # [07:22] <zewt> presumably (guessing based on behavior, didn't look at the code) resizing the entire image, even though only a small portion was visible
376. # [07:22] <grantg> zewt: Heh 3000x3000
377. # [07:22] <zewt> which makes a lot of sense for certain use cases--just not mine
378. # [07:23] <grantg> memory issues there bro
379. # [07:23] <zewt> nah modern browsers can handle images that size easily
380. # [07:23] <grantg> try breaking up that image into chunks
381. # [07:23] <grantg> zewt: Still, it has to reside in RAM
382. # [07:23] <zewt> normally it just shows a downscaled version
383. # [07:23] <grantg> breaking it into chunks might allow the browser to optimize for the visible portions
384. # [07:24] <grantg> and the hidden portions can be disabled while offscreen.
385. # [07:24] * Quits: BigKing (~BigKing@p5DCE826A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
386. # [07:24] <zewt> ff4 is much better than 3.6 was at painting large, scaled images, it seems
387. # [07:25] * Joins: song_ (~song@220.160.65.104)
388. # [07:25] <grantg> zewt: FF4 is better than FF3.6 in many ways
389. # [07:25] <zewt> 3.6 had a fast path for that (scrolling only horizontally or vertically, obviously optimized for scrollbars), but if you did both at once it would get ugly
390. # [07:25] <grantg> like JS is 10x faster for me.
391. # [07:25] <zewt> looks like ff4 optimized that in the general case
392. # [07:25] <grantg> still
393. # [07:25] <grantg> you shouldn't rely on the browser to do these heuristics
394. # [07:25] <grantg> especially in RAM constrained environments
395. # [07:26] <grantg> like 30 tabs open on a 512 MB comp
396. # [07:26] <zewt> if you're in a RAM-constrained environment you're not viewing print-resolution images :)
397. # [07:26] <grantg> you'll be using VM mon
398. # [07:26] <zewt> (that's why the low-res versions exist; they're a lot more convenient and all most people want)
399. # [07:27] <grantg> Do you pack low-res into your image file next to the high-res?
400. # [07:27] <zewt> no, separate files
401. # [07:27] <grantg> Or are you assuming the browser samples the image?
402. # [07:27] <grantg> zewt: You're doing a timer to check to see if it's scaling on time then?
403. # [07:27] <grantg> to switch images?
404. # [07:28] <zewt> no, it only shows the low-res one by default; UI to view the large one
405. # [07:28] <grantg> So it's up to the user then?
406. # [07:28] <grantg> heh
407. # [07:28] <zewt> sure, it's up to the user if they want to download a 3-meg image instead of a 500k one
408. # [07:29] <grantg> discouraging the power users from the high-res as well. :P
409. # [07:29] <grantg> anyhow, maybe do timers to check to see if the scaling is taking too long in order to "fallback"?
410. # [07:29] <grantg> or to skip zoom intervals
411. # [07:30] <grantg> if you're animating the zoom
412. # [07:31] <zewt> http://oreno.imouto.org/post/browse#/pool:1832
413. # [07:31] <zewt> (hit v)
414. # [07:31] <grantg> woah, where did all these anime girls come from? heh
415. # [07:33] <zewt> an odd island nation, i assume
416. # [07:33] * Joins: Ankheg (~Ankheg@fs91-201-3-30.dubna-net.ru)
417. # [07:34] <grantg> You froze my firefox. <.<
418. # [07:34] * Joins: dgathright_ (~dgathrigh@cpe-76-90-139-148.socal.res.rr.com)
419. # [07:34] <grantg> lol
420. # [07:34] <zewt> maybe some time i'll put up an example site using that with stupid cat pictures or something, people always get distracted :P
421. # [07:34] * Quits: song_ (~song@220.160.65.104) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
422. # [07:35] <grantg> can haz cats?
423. # [07:35] <zewt> never freezes for me, i think your firefox is misbehaving sir
424. # [07:35] <grantg> firefox 4 for mac
425. # [07:35] <grantg> :/
426. # [07:36] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-qsifmpomijipqgln) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
427. # [07:36] * dgathright_ is now known as dgathright
428. # [07:36] <zewt> last i saw most webkit browsers (including chrome and mobile safari) were a bit leaky with dynamically-loaded images which is annoying
429. # [07:36] <grantg> don't use data uris if you're conscious about RAM usage then
430. # [07:36] <zewt> i've crashed chrome tabs just by scrolling around google maps for a while (in a contrived case to repro it--a low-memory VM)
431. # [07:36] <zewt> i never use data:, heh
432. # [07:37] <zewt> (when I can help it; nothing in this code does)
433. # [07:38] <zewt> tip: don't view image on that page in firefox; it's a canvas, and view image loads canvases as data:, heh
434. # [07:38] <zewt> so it ends up trying to load a several-megabyte data url
435. # [07:38] <grantg> heh
436. # [07:38] <zewt> it survives but gets annoyed
437. # [07:39] * Quits: ped_ (~ped@189.60.165.103) (Quit: Leaving)
438. # [07:40] <grantg> nn
439. # [07:40] * Quits: grantg (~chatzilla@c-66-229-101-15.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
440. # [07:44] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@unaffiliated/kaosoft) (Quit: Liberty is the right to choose, freedom is the result of that choice.)
441. # [07:46] * Quits: Killman (~killman@unaffiliated/killman) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
442. # [07:46] * Joins: Killman (~killman@unaffiliated/killman)
443. # [07:50] <tw2113> damn it....opera mobile is just too damn slick
444. # [07:51] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@adsl-75-4-207-135.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
445. # [07:54] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: yo yt
446. # [07:54] <niftylettuce> grantg: YO MAN
447. # [07:54] <niftylettuce> tw2113: yo we gotta talk
448. # [07:55] <niftylettuce> grantg: i gotta catch u up to speed
449. # [07:55] * Joins: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
450. # [07:55] <niftylettuce> grantg: we won 1st place for that idea in our univ's entrepreneurship's competition
451. # [07:55] * Parts: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
452. # [07:56] <tw2113> i didn't do it!
453. # [07:56] <tw2113> ok i admit, me liking opera mobile is in fact true, but i can claim firefox
454. # [07:57] <tw2113> i can negotiate to lie to 20 people
455. # [07:59] <tw2113> *grovels*
456. # [08:09] * Joins: Frippe (~Frippe@238.218.216.81.static.hud.siw.siwnet.net)
457. # [08:09] * Quits: Frippe (~Frippe@238.218.216.81.static.hud.siw.siwnet.net) (Changing host)
458. # [08:09] * Joins: Frippe (~Frippe@unaffiliated/frippe)
459. # [08:09] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122225.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
460. # [08:11] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224125212.adsl.alicedsl.de)
461. # [08:12] * Quits: Brodingo (~Brodingo@cpe-70-116-2-207.austin.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
462. # [08:27] * Quits: dr_ick (~dr_ick@c-67-171-240-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
463. # [08:28] * Quits: antonkovalyov (~antonkova@adsl-75-18-228-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
464. # [08:36] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@186.112.5.183)
465. # [08:36] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@186.112.5.183) (Changing host)
466. # [08:36] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
467. # [08:37] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@unaffiliated/kaosoft) (Client Quit)
468. # [08:48] * Quits: elfgoh (~Adium@adsl28.dyn208.pacific.net.sg) (Quit: Leaving.)
469. # [08:49] * Joins: elfgoh (~Adium@adsl28.dyn208.pacific.net.sg)
470. # [08:51] * Quits: dguttman (~dguttman@cpe-75-85-0-213.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: dguttman)
471. # [08:53] * Joins: beevi7 (~manuel.bi@tim.7val.com)
472. # [08:54] * Quits: Ankheg (~Ankheg@fs91-201-3-30.dubna-net.ru) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
473. # [08:56] * Joins: Ankheg (~Ankheg@91.201.3.30)
474. # [08:57] * Quits: hsbot (~hsbot@c-9897e253.014-262-73746f13.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: brb)
475. # [08:57] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Quit: zzzzz)
476. # [08:58] * Joins: kor (~kor@ip146-53-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
477. # [08:59] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.31.70)
478. # [09:02] * Joins: hsbot (~hsbot@c-9897e253.014-262-73746f13.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
479. # [09:02] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.31.70) (Client Quit)
480. # [09:03] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.31.70)
481. # [09:08] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: I was raided by the FBI and all I got to keep was this lousy quit message!)
482. # [09:12] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@cpe-76-90-139-148.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
483. # [09:18] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-zsohrkwsufquqfno)
484. # [09:21] * Quits: Frippe (~Frippe@unaffiliated/frippe) (Quit: :3)
485. # [09:21] <paul_irish> http://www.google.com/
486. # [09:21] * Joins: Frippe (~Frippe@unaffiliated/frippe)
487. # [09:25] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130)
488. # [09:27] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
489. # [09:29] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, whaaa?
490. # [09:29] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, woah a search engine!!!
491. # [09:29] * Quits: Jackneill (~Jackneill@91-82-66-143.pool.invitel.hu) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
492. # [09:29] <paul_irish> AMAZING
493. # [09:29] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, lol you like that Facebook SPAM
494. # [09:29] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, I know you <3'd it
495. # [09:30] * Joins: simplicity- (~simpli@unaffiliated/simplicity-)
496. # [09:30] <niftylettuce> ?fuckingniftylettuce
497. # [09:30] <bot-t> niftylettuce, Couldn't find "fuckingniftylettuce" in jQuery Docs.
498. # [09:30] <niftylettuce> LOL
499. # [09:32] * Joins: Jackneill (~Jackneill@82.131.236.100.pool.invitel.hu)
500. # [09:34] * Quits: Killman (~killman@unaffiliated/killman) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
501. # [09:37] * Joins: Drule (~Drule@77.72.98.25.c.fiberdirekt.net)
502. # [09:46] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130) (Remote host closed the connection)
503. # [09:47] * Joins: seutje (~steve@fragger.nascom.be)
504. # [09:47] * Quits: seutje (~steve@fragger.nascom.be) (Changing host)
505. # [09:47] * Joins: seutje (~steve@drupal.org/user/264148/view)
506. # [09:48] * Joins: jochen___ (~jochen@nat/google/x-rsbtlfmlfnojxonm)
507. # [09:52] * Quits: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-oxbpdigyunshjtkv) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
508. # [09:52] * jochen___ is now known as jochen__
509. # [09:57] * Joins: samal (IceChat77@115.242.8.130)
510. # [09:57] * samal is now known as sg
511. # [10:01] * Parts: sg (IceChat77@115.242.8.130)
512. # [10:02] * Joins: sg (IceChat77@115.242.8.130)
513. # [10:04] * Joins: huskyr (~huskyr@ip169-070.vpro.nl)
514. # [10:04] * Joins: jochen___ (~jochen@nat/google/x-nczhvwyomagkgrdp)
515. # [10:06] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@85.196.124.46)
516. # [10:08] * Quits: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-rsbtlfmlfnojxonm) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
517. # [10:08] * jochen___ is now known as jochen__
518. # [10:08] * Quits: sg (IceChat77@115.242.8.130) (Quit: I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!)
519. # [10:09] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@85.196.124.46) (Remote host closed the connection)
520. # [10:10] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-69-72.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
521. # [10:10] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-69-72.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Excess Flood)
522. # [10:15] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-69-72.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
523. # [10:18] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, how is west coast treating u
524. # [10:19] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, bet u miss admirals market :)
525. # [10:20] * Quits: niftylettuce (~niftylett@h247.119.232.68.ip.windstream.net) (Quit: Leaving)
526. # [10:24] * Quits: patcito (~123@190.42.81.45) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
527. # [10:29] * Joins: dmachi1 (~dmachi@pool-72-66-212-110.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
528. # [10:29] * Quits: dmachi (~dmachi@pool-72-66-212-110.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
529. # [10:32] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-zsohrkwsufquqfno) (Quit: dgathright)
530. # [10:42] * Joins: dr_ick (~dr_ick@c-67-171-240-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
531. # [10:45] * Joins: Juo (~Juo@unaffiliated/juo)
532. # [10:46] * Quits: Juo (~Juo@unaffiliated/juo) (Client Quit)
533. # [10:46] * Joins: Juo (~Juo@unaffiliated/juo)
534. # [10:53] * Quits: hsbot (~hsbot@c-9897e253.014-262-73746f13.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Read error: Operation timed out)
535. # [10:57] * Joins: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
536. # [11:01] * Joins: Killman (~killman@unaffiliated/killman)
537. # [11:05] * Joins: tbassetto (~tbassetto@92.103.127.226)
538. # [11:12] * Joins: Levis_ (~Levis_@93-63-109-252.ip27.fastwebnet.it)
539. # [11:15] * Quits: JojoBoss (~quassel@69.169.159.105.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
540. # [11:17] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.31.70) (Quit: Byebye now .)
541. # [11:19] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-9-197.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
542. # [11:22] * Joins: robhawkes (~robhawkes@87-194-135-193.bethere.co.uk)
543. # [11:41] * Joins: derek_ (~derek@188.114.54.219)
544. # [11:41] * Quits: derek_ (~derek@188.114.54.219) (Client Quit)
545. # [11:41] * Joins: derek_ (~derek@188.114.54.219)
546. # [11:42] * Quits: derek_ (~derek@188.114.54.219) (Client Quit)
547. # [11:42] * Joins: derek_ (~derek@188.114.54.219)
548. # [11:42] * Quits: derek_ (~derek@188.114.54.219) (Client Quit)
549. # [11:42] * Joins: vanmik (~derek@188.114.54.219)
550. # [12:06] * Joins: pwestwood (~neoanders@41.136.77.171)
551. # [12:06] <pwestwood> good html5/css3 blog?
552. # [12:08] * Quits: dr_ick (~dr_ick@c-67-171-240-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
553. # [12:14] * Joins: louisremi (~louisremi@mozilla-paris-253-99.cnt.nerim.net)
554. # [12:16] * Parts: pwestwood (~neoanders@41.136.77.171)
555. # [12:35] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.31.70)
556. # [12:35] * Joins: chachan (~quassel@200.109.135.10)
557. # [12:38] * nbari|away is now known as nbari
558. # [12:53] * Joins: unomi (~unomi@unaffiliated/unomi)
559. # [13:03] * Joins: skylame``r (4e5ad537@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.90.213.55)
560. # [13:22] * Joins: jblanche (~jblanche@ivr94-10-88-177-169-11.fbx.proxad.net)
561. # [13:23] * Joins: okaycool (~okaycool@113.19.250.175)
562. # [13:24] * Quits: chachan (~quassel@200.109.135.10) (Remote host closed the connection)
563. # [13:25] * Quits: skylame``r (4e5ad537@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.90.213.55) (Quit: Page closed)
564. # [13:30] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
565. # [13:31] * psynaptic|away is now known as psynaptic
566. # [13:35] * Joins: tomask (~tomask@IP-89-190-100-254.nnt.lt)
567. # [13:35] * Quits: tomask (~tomask@IP-89-190-100-254.nnt.lt) (Changing host)
568. # [13:35] * Joins: tomask (~tomask@unaffiliated/tomask)
569. # [13:52] * Joins: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@92.103.127.226)
570. # [13:53] * Joins: DannyButterman (~olivier@relay.tuilerie.net)
571. # [13:55] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224125212.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
572. # [13:56] * Quits: jblanche (~jblanche@ivr94-10-88-177-169-11.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jblanche)
573. # [13:57] <DannyButterman> Hi there, what would you do to center a div relatively to its parent div ?
574. # [13:58] <nbari> maybe a margin: 0 auto;
575. # [13:59] * Joins: jblanche (~jblanche@ivr94-10-88-177-169-11.fbx.proxad.net)
576. # [13:59] <DannyButterman> nbari: no "align:center" ?
577. # [14:00] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122230.adsl.alicedsl.de)
578. # [14:04] <DannyButterman> nbari: my content is still stuck on the left side... :s
579. # [14:06] <nbari> margin: 0 auto; text-align: center;
580. # [14:06] <nbari> maybe that helps
581. # [14:06] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122230.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
582. # [14:07] <adrinux> DannyButterman: the parent needs to be set position: relative for margin 0 auto to work
583. # [14:07] <adrinux> and you also need a fixed width, less than 100%
584. # [14:08] * Joins: cesarstafe (~cesarstaf@190.190.162.163)
585. # [14:10] <DannyButterman> adrinux: parent div has 'width: 829px' and 'margin: 0 auto' and 'position: relative'. Still no luck.
586. # [14:10] <adrinux> no, no
587. # [14:11] <adrinux> parent should be position relative, actual div you want center needs to have margin auto and fixed width smaller than parent
588. # [14:14] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@d221216.adsl.hansenet.de)
589. # [14:14] * Parts: okaycool (~okaycool@113.19.250.175)
590. # [14:15] <DannyButterman> adrinux : thank you !! it works at last
591. # [14:15] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@173.217.231.32)
592. # [14:15] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@173.217.231.32) (Changing host)
593. # [14:15] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe)
594. # [14:18] * Quits: tomask (~tomask@unaffiliated/tomask) (Quit: Leaving)
595. # [14:21] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@d221216.adsl.hansenet.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
596. # [14:23] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224125149.adsl.alicedsl.de)
597. # [14:27] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe) (Quit: Snakes)
598. # [14:31] * Joins: pratz (~quassel@115.252.128.220)
599. # [14:32] * Quits: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
600. # [14:34] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130)
601. # [14:35] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@173.217.231.32)
602. # [14:35] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@173.217.231.32) (Changing host)
603. # [14:35] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe)
604. # [14:36] * Joins: Michael (~disney@unaffiliated/jabberwock)
605. # [14:36] * Quits: Juo (~Juo@unaffiliated/juo) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
606. # [14:38] * Joins: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays)
607. # [14:38] * Joins: michael_ (~michael@p5B2FA955.dip.t-dialin.net)
608. # [14:38] * michael_ is now known as solocio
609. # [14:41] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224125149.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Read error: Operation timed out)
610. # [14:42] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
611. # [14:45] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@d221107.adsl.hansenet.de)
612. # [14:56] * Quits: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
613. # [14:56] * Joins: kadiks (~kadiks@92.103.52.133)
614. # [14:57] * Joins: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays)
615. # [15:00] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
616. # [15:01] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@WiFi-node-1450.LaTech.edu)
617. # [15:01] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@WiFi-node-1450.LaTech.edu) (Changing host)
618. # [15:01] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe)
619. # [15:03] * Joins: djazz (~daniel@78-70-243-144-no186.tbcn.telia.com)
620. # [15:09] * Quits: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219) (Quit: Leaving.)
621. # [15:16] * Quits: unomi (~unomi@unaffiliated/unomi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
622. # [15:18] * Joins: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
623. # [15:19] * Joins: plh_ (~plh@c-76-103-103-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
624. # [15:19] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
625. # [15:20] * Joins: zamabe_ (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe)
626. # [15:24] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
627. # [15:25] * zamabe_ is now known as zamabe
628. # [15:26] * Quits: Michael (~disney@unaffiliated/jabberwock) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
629. # [15:27] * Quits: ccl (~chatzilla@rrcs-173-197-3-190.west.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
630. # [15:28] * Joins: adamnbowen (~adamnbowe@c-98-220-233-251.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
631. # [15:28] * Joins: ajpiaNOU (~ajpiano@cpe-68-173-41-149.nyc.res.rr.com)
632. # [15:29] * Quits: ajpiaNOU (~ajpiano@cpe-68-173-41-149.nyc.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
633. # [15:29] * Joins: unomi (~unomi@unaffiliated/unomi)
634. # [15:29] * Joins: zachleat (482509da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.37.9.218)
635. # [15:36] * Joins: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
636. # [15:37] * Quits: bibo_osX (~biborico@159.71.64-86.rev.gaoland.net) (Quit: Leaving)
637. # [15:38] * Quits: pratz (~quassel@115.252.128.220) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
638. # [15:39] * Joins: Jon47 (~jon47@204.56.125.50)
639. # [15:39] * Quits: Ankheg (~Ankheg@91.201.3.30) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
640. # [15:40] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@d221107.adsl.hansenet.de) (Read error: Operation timed out)
641. # [15:42] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054052096.adsl.alicedsl.de)
642. # [15:43] * Joins: Feodoric (~Russ@c-98-220-233-251.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
643. # [15:44] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
644. # [15:44] * Joins: hubble (~hubble@173-165-61-105-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
645. # [15:50] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM111-188-69-72.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: kennyluck)
646. # [15:50] * Joins: bibo_osX (~biborico@159.71.64-86.rev.gaoland.net)
647. # [15:58] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.31.70) (Quit: Byebye now .)
648. # [16:02] * Quits: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays) (Quit: hays)
649. # [16:07] * Joins: CrashTest_ (~CrashTest@c-66-235-13-223.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net)
650. # [16:08] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe) (Quit: Snakes)
651. # [16:09] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
652. # [16:09] * Joins: Juo (~Juo@unaffiliated/juo)
653. # [16:10] * Quits: DannyButterman (~olivier@relay.tuilerie.net) (Quit: Bye)
654. # [16:11] * Joins: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch)
655. # [16:13] * psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|food
656. # [16:15] * Quits: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-9-197.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
657. # [16:17] * Joins: ericduran (~ericduran@173-203-243-241.static.cloud-ips.com)
658. # [16:24] * Joins: Michael (~disney@orl-inet-cp-10.disney.com)
659. # [16:24] * Michael is now known as Guest92151
660. # [16:24] * Guest92151 is now known as Michael
661. # [16:25] * Quits: Michael (~disney@orl-inet-cp-10.disney.com) (Changing host)
662. # [16:25] * Joins: Michael (~disney@unaffiliated/jabberwock)
663. # [16:26] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@WiFi-node-1450.LaTech.edu)
664. # [16:26] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@WiFi-node-1450.LaTech.edu) (Changing host)
665. # [16:26] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe)
666. # [16:30] * Joins: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
667. # [16:30] * Parts: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
668. # [16:32] * Joins: ideamonk (~ideamonk@122.167.21.57)
669. # [16:34] * Quits: kor (~kor@ip146-53-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) (Quit: kor)
670. # [16:35] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@184-214-137-206.pools.spcsdns.net)
671. # [16:35] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@184-214-137-206.pools.spcsdns.net) (Changing host)
672. # [16:35] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
673. # [16:38] * Quits: Jon47 (~jon47@204.56.125.50) (Quit: Leaving.)
674. # [16:38] * Joins: Jon47 (~jon47@204.56.125.50)
675. # [16:47] * Joins: Rob_ (~robhawkes@87-194-135-193.bethere.co.uk)
676. # [16:48] * Joins: kor (~kor@ip146-53-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
677. # [16:49] * Quits: robhawkes (~robhawkes@87-194-135-193.bethere.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
678. # [16:51] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@f054052096.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
679. # [16:52] * Quits: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@92.103.127.226) (Read error: Operation timed out)
680. # [16:53] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM114-48-207-191.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
681. # [16:53] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM114-48-207-191.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Excess Flood)
682. # [16:54] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM114-48-207-191.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
683. # [16:55] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM114-48-207-191.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Client Quit)
684. # [16:55] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM114-48-207-191.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
685. # [16:55] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM114-48-207-191.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Excess Flood)
686. # [16:56] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM114-48-207-191.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
687. # [16:57] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g231145133.adsl.alicedsl.de)
688. # [16:58] * Joins: dcadenas (~dcadenas@r186-48-201-170.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)
689. # [16:58] * Joins: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@2a01:e35:2eec:80a0:fa1e:dfff:feec:469)
690. # [16:59] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
691. # [16:59] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe)
692. # [17:01] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g231145133.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Read error: Operation timed out)
693. # [17:02] * psynaptic|food is now known as psynaptic
694. # [17:03] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122191.adsl.alicedsl.de)
695. # [17:06] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-22-161.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
696. # [17:07] * nbari is now known as nbari|away
697. # [17:10] * Quits: beevi7 (~manuel.bi@tim.7val.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
698. # [17:13] * Joins: chrislorenz (~chrislore@rrcs-76-79-247-242.west.biz.rr.com)
699. # [17:14] * Quits: Drule (~Drule@77.72.98.25.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Quit: "This rivalry is among the greatest: the Yankees and Red Sox... Hekyll and Jekyll." - Walter Day)
700. # [17:15] * Joins: BrianBlakely (~Adium@208.253.25.162)
701. # [17:15] * Parts: BrianBlakely (~Adium@208.253.25.162)
702. # [17:17] * Joins: nathan_smith (~nathan_sm@pool-173-74-85-179.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
703. # [17:21] * Joins: addyosmani (~apple@host86-162-32-205.range86-162.btcentralplus.com)
704. # [17:28] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Quit: zzzzz)
705. # [17:28] * Joins: Bass2 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
706. # [17:29] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
707. # [17:30] * Quits: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
708. # [17:30] * Quits: solocio (~michael@p5B2FA955.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: solocio)
709. # [17:31] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@WiFi-node-1450.LaTech.edu)
710. # [17:31] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@WiFi-node-1450.LaTech.edu) (Changing host)
711. # [17:31] * Joins: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe)
712. # [17:32] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122191.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
713. # [17:33] * Joins: xonecas (~sean@76-220-29-1.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
714. # [17:33] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224045165.adsl.alicedsl.de)
715. # [17:34] <xonecas> paulrouget: since you're in mt.view, do you want to get better later?
716. # [17:39] * Quits: plh_ (~plh@c-76-103-103-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
717. # [17:39] * Quits: zamabe (~zamae@unaffiliated/zamabe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
718. # [17:40] * Joins: dr_ick (~dr_ick@c-67-171-240-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
719. # [17:44] * Quits: seutje (~steve@drupal.org/user/264148/view) (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2)
720. # [17:48] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@cpe-76-90-139-148.socal.res.rr.com)
721. # [17:54] * Quits: huskyr (~huskyr@ip169-070.vpro.nl) (Quit: huskyr)
722. # [17:56] * Joins: jdalton (~johndavid@cpe-75-187-124-204.insight.res.rr.com)
723. # [17:59] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@3306ds3-amb.0.fullrate.dk)
724. # [18:02] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224045165.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
725. # [18:02] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@186.112.5.183)
726. # [18:02] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@186.112.5.183) (Changing host)
727. # [18:02] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
728. # [18:03] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224125097.adsl.alicedsl.de)
729. # [18:04] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@adsl-75-4-207-135.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
730. # [18:04] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@adsl-99-154-225-102.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
731. # [18:04] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@adsl-99-154-225-102.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Changing host)
732. # [18:04] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
733. # [18:07] * Quits: zachleat (482509da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.37.9.218) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
734. # [18:07] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@cpe-76-90-139-148.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: dgathright)
735. # [18:07] * Quits: kadiks (~kadiks@92.103.52.133) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
736. # [18:12] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@adsl-75-4-207-135.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
737. # [18:17] * Joins: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
738. # [18:19] * Quits: SteveGL (~dev@174-21-210-154.tukw.qwest.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
739. # [18:19] * Joins: jetienne_ (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
740. # [18:20] * Joins: ccohn_ (~ccohn@crystal.aaas.org)
741. # [18:20] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Quit: miketaylr)
742. # [18:20] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
743. # [18:22] * Quits: ccohn (~ccohn@198.151.217.179) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
744. # [18:22] * ccohn_ is now known as ccohn
745. # [18:25] * nbari|away is now known as nbari
746. # [18:30] * Joins: komputes (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes)
747. # [18:31] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-toefdjkpdymjexui)
748. # [18:31] * nbari is now known as nbari|away
749. # [18:32] * Joins: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
750. # [18:32] * Joins: ped_ (~ped@189.60.165.103)
751. # [18:32] * Quits: nbari|away (~nbari@unixmexico/nbari) (Remote host closed the connection)
752. # [18:33] * Joins: metapeter (~metapeter@unaffiliated/metapeter)
753. # [18:33] * Joins: nbari|away (~nbari@sign.io)
754. # [18:34] * Quits: Michael (~disney@unaffiliated/jabberwock) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
755. # [18:35] * Quits: metapeter (~metapeter@unaffiliated/metapeter) (Client Quit)
756. # [18:36] * Joins: dguttman (~dguttman@cpe-75-85-0-213.socal.res.rr.com)
757. # [18:36] * Joins: Drule (~Drule@217.174.82.85)
758. # [18:39] * Parts: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
759. # [18:45] * Joins: michael (~michael@HSI-KBW-078-043-068-129.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
760. # [18:45] * michael is now known as Guest15819
761. # [18:45] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
762. # [18:47] * Joins: antonkovalyov (~antonkova@adsl-75-18-228-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
763. # [18:47] * Quits: nathan_smith (~nathan_sm@pool-173-74-85-179.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: nathan_smith)
764. # [18:47] * Guest15819 is now known as solocio
765. # [18:49] * Quits: Bass2 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
766. # [18:52] * Quits: cesarstafe (~cesarstaf@190.190.162.163) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
767. # [18:54] * Quits: antonkovalyov (~antonkova@adsl-75-18-228-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
768. # [18:56] * Parts: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
769. # [18:57] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
770. # [19:01] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@rrcs-173-198-32-146.west.biz.rr.com)
771. # [19:02] * Joins: metapeter (~metapeter@unaffiliated/metapeter)
772. # [19:03] <djazz> can I store binary data with Web SQL?
773. # [19:05] <djazz> i cant with localStorage
774. # [19:08] <digitalfiz> you could technically store in base64
775. # [19:09] <djazz> i would spare on the storage...
776. # [19:10] * Quits: ccohn (~ccohn@crystal.aaas.org) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
777. # [19:11] * ericduran is now known as ericduran|afk
778. # [19:12] * Joins: kadiks (~kadiks@89.95.97.122)
779. # [19:12] * Joins: claudio (~claudioc@unaffiliated/claudio)
780. # [19:15] <djazz> and, does js have native base64 encode/decode?
781. # [19:16] * Joins: matijsb (~matijsb@188.205.108.18)
782. # [19:17] * Quits: matijsb (~matijsb@188.205.108.18) (Quit: Leaving.)
783. # [19:17] * Joins: KMFrog (~KMFrog@78-23-103-45.access.telenet.be)
784. # [19:18] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-toefdjkpdymjexui) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
785. # [19:18] * Joins: ccohn (~ccohn@198.151.217.180)
786. # [19:18] * Quits: Sumd (~zeta@host-241.123-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw) (Remote host closed the connection)
787. # [19:19] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-wacmbbruknhfvipw)
788. # [19:19] <paul_irish> sorta
789. # [19:19] <paul_irish> for some things
790. # [19:19] <paul_irish> but no real API for it
791. # [19:19] <paul_irish> so basically no
792. # [19:20] * CrashTest_ is now known as CrashAFK
793. # [19:21] * Quits: metapeter (~metapeter@unaffiliated/metapeter) (Quit: metapeter)
794. # [19:24] * Quits: xonecas (~sean@76-220-29-1.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
795. # [19:24] <zewt> i'm guessing eventually you'll be able to store Blobs in IDB, but i don't think the pieces for that are in place yet
796. # [19:25] <zewt> (note, IDB, not WebSQL)
797. # [19:26] * ericduran|afk is now known as ericduran
798. # [19:26] * Quits: unomi (~unomi@unaffiliated/unomi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
799. # [19:27] <djazz> why isnt localStorage covered by "unlimitedStorage" flag? (chrome web apps/extensions)
800. # [19:28] * Quits: solocio (~michael@HSI-KBW-078-043-068-129.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) (Quit: solocio)
801. # [19:28] <zewt> (i think the only missing piece, from the spec at least, is a way to construct blobs manually)
802. # [19:30] * Joins: metapeter (~metapeter@dslb-088-069-226-129.pools.arcor-ip.net)
803. # [19:30] * Quits: metapeter (~metapeter@dslb-088-069-226-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Changing host)
804. # [19:30] * Joins: metapeter (~metapeter@unaffiliated/metapeter)
805. # [19:34] * Quits: claudio (~claudioc@unaffiliated/claudio) (Quit: Leaving)
806. # [19:34] * Quits: dguttman (~dguttman@cpe-75-85-0-213.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: dguttman)
807. # [19:38] * Parts: metapeter (~metapeter@unaffiliated/metapeter)
808. # [19:39] * Joins: benv- (~benv@75-101-56-240.dsl.static.sonic.net)
809. # [19:40] <paul_irish> djazz: it isnt?
810. # [19:41] <djazz> nope
811. # [19:41] <djazz> 5 Mb (2.5 with js's UTF-16.. :( )
812. # [19:42] * Joins: unomi (~unomi@125.26.245.134.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net)
813. # [19:42] * Quits: unomi (~unomi@125.26.245.134.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) (Changing host)
814. # [19:42] * Joins: unomi (~unomi@unaffiliated/unomi)
815. # [19:43] * Joins: Jon471 (~jon47@204.56.125.50)
816. # [19:44] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
817. # [19:46] * Joins: antonkovalyov (~antonkova@75-101-56-240.dsl.static.sonic.net)
818. # [19:46] * Quits: Jon47 (~jon47@204.56.125.50) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
819. # [19:51] * psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|afk
820. # [19:52] <djazz> well, I can store binary data in localStorage, but it gets kinda truncated when restarting browser
821. # [19:53] <djazz> its intact on page reload
822. # [19:53] <zewt> that sounds like a bug
823. # [19:53] * Quits: ideamonk (~ideamonk@122.167.21.57) (Quit: Leaving)
824. # [19:55] <djazz> atm, im storing the images i got from the binary file, it takes a while to render though..
825. # [19:57] * Quits: nlogax (~nlogax@unaffiliated/nlogax) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
826. # [19:57] <djazz> as data urls...
827. # [19:57] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.46.94)
828. # [19:57] * Quits: tbassetto (~tbassetto@92.103.127.226) (Quit: tbassetto)
829. # [20:02] * Quits: benv- (~benv@75-101-56-240.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: Bye!)
830. # [20:02] * Joins: benv- (~benv@75-101-56-240.dsl.static.sonic.net)
831. # [20:03] * Joins: dguttman (~dguttman@gige.bur.digisynd.com)
832. # [20:11] * Immortal is now known as Erkan
833. # [20:11] * Quits: Levis_ (~Levis_@93-63-109-252.ip27.fastwebnet.it) (Remote host closed the connection)
834. # [20:20] * Joins: zlib (~mail@cpc7-roth7-2-0-cust170.barn.cable.virginmedia.com)
835. # [20:26] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Reading http://davidwalsh.name)
836. # [20:26] * Joins: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
837. # [20:26] * Quits: elfgoh (~Adium@adsl28.dyn208.pacific.net.sg) (Quit: Leaving.)
838. # [20:27] * Joins: elfgoh (~Adium@adsl28.dyn208.pacific.net.sg)
839. # [20:29] * Quits: jblanche (~jblanche@ivr94-10-88-177-169-11.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jblanche)
840. # [20:30] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
841. # [20:32] * Quits: addyosmani (~apple@host86-162-32-205.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: addyosmani)
842. # [20:34] * Joins: dguttman_ (~dguttman@gige.bur.digisynd.com)
843. # [20:36] * Quits: Neiluj (~Julien@195.200.175.214) (Quit: Neiluj)
844. # [20:37] * nbari|away is now known as nbari
845. # [20:37] * Quits: nbari (~nbari@sign.io) (Changing host)
846. # [20:37] * Joins: nbari (~nbari@unixmexico/nbari)
847. # [20:37] * Quits: dguttman (~dguttman@gige.bur.digisynd.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
848. # [20:37] * dguttman_ is now known as dguttman
849. # [20:40] * Joins: BigKing (~BigKing@p5DCE8124.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
850. # [20:44] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
851. # [20:48] * JoshManders is now known as JoshIngram
852. # [20:49] * JoshIngram is now known as JoshManders
853. # [20:50] * Quits: Jackneill (~Jackneill@82.131.236.100.pool.invitel.hu) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
854. # [20:53] * Joins: Thasmo (~thasmo@d86-32-70-59.cust.tele2.at)
855. # [20:57] <zewt> there, convined ff4's statusbar to only show up when the context menu is open ... hopefully should be a lot less distracting
856. # [20:57] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130) (Remote host closed the connection)
857. # [20:58] * Quits: CrashAFK (~CrashTest@c-66-235-13-223.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
858. # [21:00] * nbari is now known as nbari|away
859. # [21:04] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Quit: zzzzz)
860. # [21:05] * Quits: jetienne_ (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
861. # [21:06] * Parts: djazz (~daniel@78-70-243-144-no186.tbcn.telia.com)
862. # [21:06] * Joins: addyosmani (~apple@host86-162-32-205.range86-162.btcentralplus.com)
863. # [21:07] * Quits: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@2a01:e35:2eec:80a0:fa1e:dfff:feec:469) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
864. # [21:10] * Joins: patcito (~123@190.42.95.81)
865. # [21:11] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Don't follow me)
866. # [21:21] * Quits: tty234 (telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-njisjhhddpmsuqmi) (Read error: Operation timed out)
867. # [21:24] * Quits: diamonds (~diamonds@unaffiliated/t0nic) (Quit: diamonds)
868. # [21:25] * Quits: dguttman (~dguttman@gige.bur.digisynd.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
869. # [21:25] * Joins: dguttman (~dguttman@gige.bur.digisynd.com)
870. # [21:29] * Quits: DanoManion (~aaronott@c-76-25-139-145.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: DanoManion)
871. # [21:31] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
872. # [21:36] * Quits: dguttman (~dguttman@gige.bur.digisynd.com) (Quit: dguttman)
873. # [21:36] * Joins: dguttman (~dguttman@gige.bur.digisynd.com)
874. # [21:40] * Quits: dguttman (~dguttman@gige.bur.digisynd.com) (Client Quit)
875. # [21:53] * Joins: SteveGL (~dev@174-21-148-189.tukw.qwest.net)
876. # [21:55] * Joins: CrashTest_ (~CrashTest@c-66-235-13-223.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net)
877. # [21:57] * Quits: obert- (~obert@host173-205-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Remote host closed the connection)
878. # [21:57] * Joins: obert- (~obert@host173-205-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
879. # [22:02] * Joins: Michael (~disney@orl-inet-cp-10.disney.com)
880. # [22:02] * Quits: Michael (~disney@orl-inet-cp-10.disney.com) (Changing host)
881. # [22:02] * Joins: Michael (~disney@unaffiliated/jabberwock)
882. # [22:03] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
883. # [22:05] <Thasmo> Hey folks! Is there any easy way to set expire headers for resources (CSS, JS, IMG) if the apache module mod_expires is not available?
884. # [22:07] <jetienne> zewt: ui is configurable to get only 3 bars on top. location bar + tab bar + os window decoration bar
885. # [22:07] <jetienne> zewt: +1 if they remove the os window decoration bar
886. # [22:11] <moo-_-> Thasmo: you usually set them in your static web server
887. # [22:11] <moo-_-> Thasmo: which in this case would be apache, right?
888. # [22:11] <Thasmo> moo-_-, yes but the mod_expires module is disabled.
889. # [22:12] <moo-_-> Thasmo: then you are out of luck, I guess
890. # [22:12] <moo-_-> move to a better hosting
891. # [22:12] <Thasmo> :>
892. # [22:13] * Joins: thcipriani (~thciprian@72.16.129.9)
893. # [22:13] <uf0> moo: what about an .htaccess?
894. # [22:14] * Quits: BigKing (~BigKing@p5DCE8124.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
895. # [22:17] <Thasmo> moo-_- what about the answer here? would that work? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3626036/add-expires-header-without-mod-expires
896. # [22:17] <Thasmo> header expire with an absolute date combined with max-age?
897. # [22:18] <moo-_-> I'd still move to better hosting, instead of resorting hacks :) that will bite your ass again on some day
898. # [22:19] * Parts: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
899. # [22:20] * Joins: michael_ (~michael@HSI-KBW-078-043-068-129.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
900. # [22:21] <Thasmo> moo-_-, k so, what would be a good reason to disable or not enable mod_expires? I think my hoster does this on purpose.
901. # [22:23] * Joins: ziyadb (~ziyadb@unaffiliated/ziyadb)
902. # [22:23] <moo-_-> Thasmo: good reasons: they want more money out of you
903. # [22:23] <moo-_-> Thasmo: bad reasons: no bad reasons
904. # [22:23] <moo-_-> that's just stupid
905. # [22:24] <ziyadb> this book any good? http://www.amazon.com/Introducing-HTML5-Voices-That-Matter/dp/0321687299/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301602819&sr=1-5
906. # [22:25] <tw2113> it's a good one for a general go-over
907. # [22:25] <tw2113> it's not an instructional book
908. # [22:26] <tw2113> and i find the authors definitely reputable
909. # [22:27] * Joins: lintrix (~marcelsan@12.49.81.251)
910. # [22:28] <ziyadb> tw2113: thanks for sharing your thoughts. Would it be suitable for someone starting from *close to* scratch?
911. # [22:28] <miketaylr> i like that book, ziyadb
912. # [22:28] <miketaylr> of course i'm biased as one of the authors is my cow orker
913. # [22:28] <miketaylr> it's pretty basic, yes
914. # [22:28] <tw2113> you have a mancrush on bruce, miketaylr ?
915. # [22:29] <miketaylr> who doesn't?!
916. # [22:29] * Quits: dmachi1 (~dmachi@pool-72-66-212-110.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
917. # [22:29] <ziyadb> heh, great. I'll get it.
918. # [22:29] * Joins: dmachi (~dmachi@pool-72-66-212-110.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
919. # [22:29] <ziyadb> now if someone can spare me the trouble of going into #css and asking for an awesome book on CSS3.
920. # [22:29] <zewt> jetienne: i'm talking about the url bubble that appears at the bottom, that ff4 took from chrome
921. # [22:30] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Reading http://davidwalsh.name)
922. # [22:30] <zewt> jetienne: fyi. i reduced it to less than that: http://zewt.org/~glenn/nothingfox.jpg
923. # [22:30] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
924. # [22:30] <tw2113> http://www.abookapart.com/products/css3-for-web-designers
925. # [22:31] <jetienne> zewt: where are the tabs ?
926. # [22:31] <zewt> --->
927. # [22:31] <miketaylr> i've got a never-read copy of handcrafted css if you want it
928. # [22:31] * tw2113 blames miketaylr's mancrush on the nude pics that bruce and remy did for whatever reason
929. # [22:32] <zewt> vertical tabs work much better than horizontal tabs, especially on large widescreen windows
930. # [22:32] <miketaylr> haha
931. # [22:33] <jetienne> zewt: interesting point. true that most webpage dont use the whole width
932. # [22:33] <tw2113> personally, i liked bruce's parts more than remy's in that book, but that's cause i care about semantics and markup more than the functionality stuff
933. # [22:33] <ziyadb> tw2113 can't find it on amazon (looking for reviews) is it awesome?
934. # [22:33] <tw2113> you can't order directly from the lik i pasted ziyadb ?
935. # [22:33] <ziyadb> tw2113 read *reviews*
936. # [22:33] * Joins: murz (~mmurraywa@wcproxy.msnbc.com)
937. # [22:33] <miketaylr> cederholm is a good author
938. # [22:33] <ziyadb> miketaylr I appreciate it, but shipping would probably cost many times the book's worth, thanks.
939. # [22:34] <miketaylr> where do you live?
940. # [22:34] <tw2113> http://snook.ca/archives/snooks_book_nook/css3-for-web-designers
941. # [22:34] <tw2113> order the pdf copy
942. # [22:34] <tw2113> get it instantly
943. # [22:34] <ziyadb> saudi.
944. # [22:34] <miketaylr> ah, you're right
945. # [22:34] <tw2113> http://www.css3.info/css3-for-web-designers-a-new-book-from-dan-cederholm-and-a-book-apart/
946. # [22:34] <tw2113> http://mondaybynoon.com/2010/11/28/css3-for-web-designers/
947. # [22:35] <zewt> http://zewt.org/~glenn/url.jpg made urls show up like that ... the styling isn't optimal and there are some bugs but it's a lot better than having a box constantly flickering in the corner of the screen
948. # [22:35] <ziyadb> tw2113 ah, great. Thanks, I should have done that myself.
949. # [22:36] <tw2113> most things somehow associated with stuff run by zeldman = quality
950. # [22:36] <ziyadb> ah, I wasn't aware. New to the industry.
951. # [22:37] * Joins: phishy (~jeff@c-71-192-162-156.hsd1.nh.comcast.net)
952. # [22:38] <tw2113> welcome to it
953. # [22:39] * ziyadb meant web development
954. # [22:39] <zewt> gar
955. # [22:39] <ziyadb> I'm a networking guy
956. # [22:39] <zewt> someone needs to take a stand and spec which keys browsers must reserve for web apps
957. # [22:39] <zewt> the hotkey situation is dire with no solution in sight :|
958. # [22:42] <Thasmo> moo-_-, why would Firefox still send a request header for resources with an Expires header of "Wed, 01 Jan 2020 00:00:00 GMT"?
959. # [22:44] <moo-_-> Thasmo: http://code.google.com/speed/page-speed/docs/caching.html
960. # [22:45] <moo-_-> it should not
961. # [22:45] <moo-_-> or it is trying to get HTTP 302 Not Modied answer
962. # [22:45] <moo-_-> nto sure
963. # [22:46] * Quits: michael_ (~michael@HSI-KBW-078-043-068-129.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) (Quit: michael_)
964. # [22:46] <Thasmo> moo-_-, yes the response is 304 not modified. but i thought if i set an expires header, firefox would NOT send a request until the expires date?
965. # [22:46] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Quit: miketaylr)
966. # [22:46] <moo-_-> you might need to set Last Modified as well for HTML content
967. # [22:47] <moo-_-> there were certain rules for it
968. # [22:47] <moo-_-> let me dig it up
969. # [22:47] <zewt> what type of fetch is it?
970. # [22:47] <Thasmo> moo-_-, I send the headers for CSS/files.
971. # [22:47] * Joins: snover (~Adium@c-75-73-43-136.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
972. # [22:47] <zewt> the details are finicky so I don't remember them all off the top of my head
973. # [22:47] * Quits: snover (~Adium@c-75-73-43-136.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
974. # [22:47] * Joins: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
975. # [22:47] * Parts: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
976. # [22:47] <Thasmo> +JS
977. # [22:48] * Joins: niftylettuce (~niftylett@h247.119.232.68.ip.windstream.net)
978. # [22:48] <niftylettuce> paul_irish, 23 .. 18 ... 0 ?
979. # [22:48] <moo-_-> Thasmo: it definitely does not load CSS and JS if I set the expire header
980. # [22:48] <moo-_-> just expire header
981. # [22:48] <zewt> i usually tend to see Expires, Last-Modified, Cache-Control: max-age, sometimes Etag ... don't know precisely which are needed by spec and which are legacy compat
982. # [22:48] <moo-_-> Thasmo: how are you testing?
983. # [22:48] * Quits: Michael (~disney@unaffiliated/jabberwock) (Quit: Leaving)
984. # [22:49] <Thasmo> moo-_-, network tab in firebug.
985. # [22:49] <moo-_-> ok
986. # [22:49] <moo-_-> so 1. you have html page open
987. # [22:49] <moo-_-> 2. you hit enter on address bar
988. # [22:49] <moo-_-> right?
989. # [22:51] <Thasmo> moo-_-, lemme recheck that. :>
990. # [22:52] * Joins: dguttman (~dguttman@cpe-75-85-0-213.socal.res.rr.com)
991. # [22:52] * Joins: kennyluck_ (~kennyluck@EM111-188-30-244.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
992. # [22:52] <zewt> why is firefox wasting space in every request with a DNT header that everyone will ignore? heh
993. # [22:53] * Joins: qq99 (~qq99@CPE0026f3378f10-CM0026f3378f0d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
994. # [22:53] <Thasmo> moo-_-, it shows all resources, but grayed out - in the network tab.
995. # [22:53] <zewt> it's enabled by default (apparently), so it's not an opt-out, either--so I can't see why anyone would ever respect it
996. # [22:54] <paulrouget> zewt: it's not enabled by default
997. # [22:54] <paulrouget> zewt: and some people start following it
998. # [22:54] <zewt> it's enabled for me, and I don't even know where it's enabled
999. # [22:54] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@EM114-48-207-191.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1000. # [22:54] * kennyluck_ is now known as kennyluck
1001. # [22:55] <zewt> it's a header saying "don't do evil things", which seems to me like a no-op ("if they have to be told...")
1002. # [22:56] * zewt puts a "Do Not Steal" sticker on his wallet :P
1003. # [22:56] <jetienne> it seems to be auditable from outside, aka if you claims to follow it, you can be spoted not doing it
1004. # [22:57] <moo-_-> zewt: I think in the future it is possible that some countries may have legal implications for this
1005. # [22:57] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Quit: Leaving)
1006. # [22:57] <moo-_-> zewt: or already have and DNT can be considered the same as putting a sticker in mailbox "no advertisement"
1007. # [22:57] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1008. # [22:57] <paulrouget> zewt: http://blog.mozilla.com/blog/2011/03/30/advertisers-and-publishers-adopt-and-implement-do-not-track/
1009. # [22:58] <zewt> doesn't help much when people are sending you ads from nigeria
1010. # [22:58] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1011. # [22:58] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1012. # [22:58] <jetienne> paulrouget: is there a tool to audit they actually do what they claim ? or a plan to do it ? seems like a good idea no ?
1013. # [22:59] * Joins: Standfest__ (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1014. # [22:59] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1015. # [22:59] * Quits: Standfest__ (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1016. # [22:59] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1017. # [22:59] <jetienne> could even be a firefox extension doing that in the background :)
1018. # [22:59] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1019. # [22:59] * Quits: Jon471 (~jon47@204.56.125.50) (Quit: Leaving.)
1020. # [22:59] <zewt> if it was possible to reliably detect whether someone's tracking you if they don't want you to know, tracking would be a smaller problem
1021. # [23:00] <paulrouget> zewt: and you can find the option in Advanced -> General
1022. # [23:01] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1023. # [23:01] <Thasmo> moo-_-, ill give up on that for now. maybe ill have a look later. thx for now.
1024. # [23:01] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1025. # [23:01] <zewt> "Tell web sites I do not want to be tracked" is unchecked, but DNT is being sent, FYI
1026. # [23:01] <zewt> (also I was looking for it in Privacy, which seems the logical place for it)
1027. # [23:01] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1028. # [23:02] * Joins: jquerier (~jquerier@unaffiliated/jquerier)
1029. # [23:03] <moo-_-> Thasmo: ok
1030. # [23:03] <moo-_-> I'll be here all the weekend :)
1031. # [23:03] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1032. # [23:03] <jquerier> Hello i have just validate my site via w3c ... it says:The Content-Language state is obsolete. "Consider specifying the language on the root element instead. <meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="de-DE" />" this means i can remove this completely?
1033. # [23:04] <paulrouget> zewt: well, there is a bug then
1034. # [23:04] <zewt> a validator saying something is obsolete doesn't *necessarily* mean you can remove it with zero repercussions--you need to know why it was there to begin with, and whether that reason still applies
1035. # [23:04] <paulrouget> zewt: here it works well
1036. # [23:04] <jquerier> ok
1037. # [23:04] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1038. # [23:05] <tw2113> i put the language attribute on the html tag lately
1039. # [23:05] <zewt> paulrouget: seems like a potentially significant bug--if it's intended as a legal notification, it being sent by browsers by default due to a bug may become a loophole
1040. # [23:05] <paulrouget> zewt: can you check in about:config, look for "track", and give me the value
1041. # [23:05] <zewt> i'll re-test without extensions and check the tracker if it still happens
1042. # [23:05] <tw2113> afternoon paulrouget
1043. # [23:05] <paulrouget> zewt: do you use Adblock Plus?
1044. # [23:05] <zewt> p.donottrackheader.enabled is false, and the pref isn't locked
1045. # [23:05] <zewt> yep
1046. # [23:05] <paulrouget> zewt: adblock plus force DNT iirc
1047. # [23:06] * Joins: dcadenas_ (~dcadenas@r186-48-217-73.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)
1048. # [23:06] <paulrouget> zewt: ok, that's the problem, it's adblock plus, not firefox
1049. # [23:06] <zewt> ... making it ignore the pref instead of changing the default? that's seriously evil
1050. # [23:06] * Quits: phishy (~jeff@c-71-192-162-156.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) (Quit: phishy)
1051. # [23:06] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1052. # [23:07] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1053. # [23:07] <paulrouget> zewt: open a bug please
1054. # [23:07] <zewt> i'll file over with them, then
1055. # [23:07] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@184-228-193-129.pools.spcsdns.net)
1056. # [23:07] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@184-228-193-129.pools.spcsdns.net) (Changing host)
1057. # [23:07] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
1058. # [23:07] * Quits: dcadenas (~dcadenas@r186-48-201-170.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1059. # [23:08] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1060. # [23:08] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1061. # [23:08] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1062. # [23:08] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1063. # [23:09] * Quits: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-22-161.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1064. # [23:09] * Joins: Senix (~look@unaffiliated/look)
1065. # [23:10] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1066. # [23:10] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1067. # [23:11] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1068. # [23:11] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1069. # [23:11] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1070. # [23:14] * Quits: louisremi (~louisremi@mozilla-paris-253-99.cnt.nerim.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
1071. # [23:14] * Quits: elfgoh (~Adium@adsl28.dyn208.pacific.net.sg) (Quit: Leaving.)
1072. # [23:14] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1073. # [23:15] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@EM111-188-43-9.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
1074. # [23:19] * Quits: simplicity- (~simpli@unaffiliated/simplicity-) (Quit: simplicity-)
1075. # [23:21] * Joins: simplicity- (~simpli@unaffiliated/simplicity-)
1076. # [23:21] * Joins: jeremyselier (~Jeremy@2a01:e35:139f:2c60:fa1e:dfff:feec:469)
1077. # [23:32] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Quit: ..)
1078. # [23:32] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1079. # [23:33] * Quits: qq99 (~qq99@CPE0026f3378f10-CM0026f3378f0d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1080. # [23:34] * Quits: simplicity- (~simpli@unaffiliated/simplicity-) (Quit: simplicity-)
1081. # [23:34] <Thasmo> moo-_-, sending a header "expires" with an absolute date in combination with a max-age headers seams to work. (I use mod_header instead of mod_expires.) But unfortunately firefox keeps downloading eot and woff files and doesnt cache them also it should. any idea?
1082. # [23:34] <zewt> fwiw re: abp: https://www.mozdev.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=23863
1083. # [23:35] * Quits: Juo (~Juo@unaffiliated/juo) (Quit: Juo)
1084. # [23:35] <moo-_-> Thasmo: sounds like a bug if WOFF cache is not honoured
1085. # [23:35] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-wacmbbruknhfvipw) (Quit: dgathright)
1086. # [23:36] * Joins: hays (~hays@unaffiliated/hays)
1087. # [23:37] <Thasmo> moo-_-, a bug in ff4? it even seems downloading it twice sometimes.
1088. # [23:38] <moo-_-> Thasmo: not unheard of. we are not living a perfect world :)
1089. # [23:38] <moo-_-> Thasmo: but I promise you they'll fix it if you report it :)
1090. # [23:38] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@unaffiliated/kaosoft) (Quit: Liberty is the right to choose, freedom is the result of that choice.)
1091. # [23:39] <Thasmo> moo-_-, yeah ill report after some more tests. I'm using some htaccess magic from html5boilerplate so I needa check some more things.
1092. # [23:40] <Thasmo> moo-_-, found something: http://www.lubyte.de/en/blog/2010/08/10/woff-caching-firefox
1093. # [23:41] <Thasmo> but it doesnt fit exactly
1094. # [23:42] * Quits: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224125097.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1095. # [23:44] * Joins: mr_daniel (~irssi@g224122135.adsl.alicedsl.de)
1096. # [23:47] * Quits: LongBeach (~mike@AFontenayssB-152-1-16-225.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr)
1097. # [23:47] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.46.94) (Quit: nn)
1098. # [23:50] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-suzzbkqufscdkbri)
1099. # [23:51] * Quits: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Quit: ..)
1100. # [23:55] * Quits: JoshManders (~josh@unaffiliated/killswitch) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
1101. # [23:56] * Quits: vanmik (~derek@188.114.54.219) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1102. # [23:56] * Joins: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
1103. # [23:58] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1104. # [23:58] * Standfest is now known as yAlex
1105. # [23:59] * Quits: yAlex (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv) (Client Quit)
1106. # [23:59] * Joins: Standfest (~Standfest@balticom-242-234.balticom.lv)
1107. # Session Close: Fri Apr 01 00:00:00 2011

The end :)