/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-04-05 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Apr 05 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  25. # [00:45] <uf0> grrrrrr
  26. # [00:45] <uf0> how do I inspect element via mouse
  27. # [00:46] <uf0> like firebug with chrome dev tools?
  28. # [00:46] <uf0> right now i'm doing right click, is that only way?
  29. # [00:47] <paul_irish> magnifying glass icon
  30. # [00:47] <uf0> finally, life saverr
  31. # [00:47] <uf0> thanks man
  32. # [00:48] <uf0> i was scratching my head for awhile on that
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  34. # [00:49] <paul_irish> yeah it could probably use some "inspect element" text on the button
  35. # [00:50] <uf0> i'd say put it top, it's a ui need in my opinion
  36. # [00:50] <uf0> for dumb folks like me :)
  37. # [00:51] <paul_irish> <3
  38. # [00:51] <zot--> need to work on your icon ESP
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  63. # [01:54] <daleharvey> I would love that inspect element button to always be visible, not just on console
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  88. # [02:36] <Nintet> hi
  89. # [02:36] <Nintet> anyone in here good with sound?
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  93. # [02:43] <Nintet> ogg format is not common in browsers?
  94. # [02:44] <Nintet> i dont want to use mp3
  95. # [02:46] <ryanseddon> wav has wide support albeit size is the issue then
  96. # [02:47] <Nintet> yeah ogg is the way to go for sound quality/size
  97. # [02:47] <Nintet> but people hate it
  98. # [02:47] <Nintet> i guess
  99. # [02:49] <miketaylr> ogg is supported in firefox and opera, right?
  100. # [02:49] <miketaylr> or does chromium support it too?
  101. # [02:49] <tw2113> yes on FF and O
  102. # [02:50] <tw2113> according to a poster chart showing various support, chrome should too
  103. # [02:50] <Nintet> what about this:
  104. # [02:50] <Nintet> http://bocoup.com/misc/jai/
  105. # [02:51] <ryanseddon> yeah ogg is in chrome
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  108. # [03:01] <Nintet> i am looking for help with a simple page. i suck at web coding =(
  109. # [03:01] <Nintet> i just want to get a page up for people to dl/stream an ogg file
  110. # [03:01] <Nintet> it works now, somewhat
  111. # [03:02] <Nintet> but the script is not working right
  112. # [03:04] <ryanseddon> you wouldn't need to do any scripts at all just use the browsers built in controls
  113. # [03:04] <Nintet> things that i do not know
  114. # [03:04] <Nintet> do you have an example?
  115. # [03:05] <ryanseddon> <video controls> <source src="foo.ogg" type="video/ogg"> <source src="foo.mp4"> Your browser does not support the <code>video</code> element. </video>
  116. # [03:05] <ryanseddon> oops treplace audio with video same markup
  117. # [03:06] <ryanseddon> you can specify multiple formats so you can cover all browsers that don't support ogg
  118. # [03:06] <ryanseddon> See here https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Using_audio_and_video_in_Firefox
  119. # [03:07] <ryanseddon> But make sure you serve the audio file with the right mime type otherwise the browser won't know what to do
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  123. # [03:16] <Nintet> thanks!
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  129. # [03:31] <dgathright> ryanseddon Nintet: FYI, always put the iOS friendly format first. Mobile Safari only recognizes the first <source> tag found. Or so i've heard.
  130. # [03:31] <Nintet> what is iOS?
  131. # [03:32] <dgathright> the iPhone/iPad operating system.
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  133. # [03:32] <Nintet> but those people wont like my music anyways
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  135. # [03:34] <dgathright> hah, fair enough.
  136. # [03:35] <Nintet> but, you are saying that i need to have another format besides .ogg?
  137. # [03:36] <dgathright> If you are going to target people using Safari or IE, yes.
  138. # [03:37] <dgathright> I was just pointing out that in ryanseddon's snippet, you should actually do <video controls> <source src="foo.mp4"> <source src="foo.ogg" type="video/ogg">, instead of the ogg before the mp4
  139. # [03:38] <ryanseddon> yep, .ogg, .mp4, .webm will cover your bases
  140. # [03:38] <Nintet> i see
  141. # [03:38] <Nintet> i dont think i even have an encoder that will do mp4/webm
  142. # [03:39] <ryanseddon> This does videos not sure if it does audio I don't see why not though http://www.ghacks.net/2010/04/03/miro-video-converter/
  143. # [03:39] <miketaylr> you can grab....
  144. # [03:39] <miketaylr> ^^
  145. # [03:40] <ryanseddon> oops I meant this site http://mirovideoconverter.com/
  146. # [03:56] <Nintet> well, the whole point of not giving out mp3 is that i want to sell 320k mp3 later with paypal
  147. # [03:57] <Nintet> thats why .ogg is the best for me
  148. # [03:57] <Nintet> people hate .ogg
  149. # [03:57] <miketaylr> lol
  150. # [03:57] <Nintet> you cant use it in ipod?
  151. # [03:57] <Nintet> right?
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  153. # [03:57] <Nintet> i looked for a hardware portable player and i only found one
  154. # [03:57] <Nintet> that could play ogg
  155. # [03:58] <Nintet> but technically... ogg is a superior format!
  156. # [03:58] <Nintet> the final irony
  157. # [03:58] <Nintet> i think it sounds so much better!
  158. # [04:01] <Nintet> thanks guys...
  159. # [04:02] <Nintet> now i have to hang out in #ubuntu and help some poor sot wit a boot problem ;)
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  161. # [04:02] <zot--> my android phone sure plays vorbis and any player that can't is pretty much a joke
  162. # [04:03] * zot-- is now known as zewt
  163. # [04:03] <Nintet> really?
  164. # [04:03] <Nintet> so ogg is really popular!
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  166. # [04:03] <Nintet> i first used it with the early versions of audiotool.com
  167. # [04:03] <Nintet> which used to be hosted by a german social networking site
  168. # [04:04] <Nintet> but ogg is small and sounds... mm different compression than mp3
  169. # [04:04] <tw2113> ogg still gets shoved aside
  170. # [04:05] <Nintet> im sure that it will get more popular in the future tho
  171. # [04:05] <Nintet> has too
  172. # [04:05] <tw2113> one can only hope
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  174. # [04:10] <ryanseddon> I would say webm would overtake ogg and it'll die a slow death
  175. # [04:11] <Nintet> what the heck is webm?
  176. # [04:11] <Nintet> is that some subset of a new compression that is out?
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  178. # [04:11] <tw2113> WebM is an audio-video format designed to provide a royalty-free, high-quality open video compression format for use with HTML5 video. The project's development is sponsored by Google.
  179. # [04:12] <Nintet> wat browsers?
  180. # [04:12] <tw2113> firefox, chrome, opera
  181. # [04:12] <Nintet> so for apple...
  182. # [04:12] <Nintet> people have to use what?
  183. # [04:12] <Nintet> not that i care...
  184. # [04:12] <tw2113> apple would still be using h.264
  185. # [04:12] <tw2113> same with IE
  186. # [04:12] <Nintet> h.264
  187. # [04:13] <Nintet> that is mp3?
  188. # [04:13] <tw2113> and mp4
  189. # [04:13] <tw2113> basically if you cover h.264 webm and ogg, you'll get all the browsers
  190. # [04:13] <Nintet> i see
  191. # [04:14] <tw2113> and i threw in ogg because i have a <3 for it
  192. # [04:14] <Nintet> thanks thanks
  193. # [04:14] <tw2113> just h.264 and webm will get pretty much everything
  194. # [04:15] <tw2113> however, it does look like web uses vorbis which is ogg audio
  195. # [04:15] <Nintet> well then, guess i can reduce the quality by encoding from a shit grade 5 .ogg
  196. # [04:15] <tw2113> so that's win
  197. # [04:15] <Nintet> yeah, for some strange reason, i am glad there is a format war
  198. # [04:16] <tw2113> you freak :P
  199. # [04:16] <tw2113> jk
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  306. # [08:12] <digitalfiz_> does anyone in here know the site that was forked from rumpetroll.com that was more of a game?
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  359. # [10:23] <Zeddy> If i want to follow the users every move and every 5 seconds update their location to a database, what is the best way to handle errors in geolocation api and automatically retry if it fails?
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  362. # [10:28] <Zeddy> yesterday i tried my app and the first 500 meters it recorded about 15 positions correctly, then suddenly it stopped transmitting new coordinates
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  653. # [13:18] <ky4er_> hi all
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  730. # [16:20] <salazr> hey folks.. working on a simple page with css3 rounded corners, falling back on border-radius.htc for IE... everything works smooth but on IE there's a 1px black border on the elements... wondering if anyone's seen that
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  732. # [16:24] <salazr> nevermind.. i had to define the border-color.. it does seem like transparent is not a supported value, but for this case, white will do just fine...
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  757. # [17:25] <grantg> paulrouget: http://i.imgur.com/T8hY6.png
  758. # [17:25] <grantg> See that all the time on mac comps
  759. # [17:25] <grantg> firefox 4 repaint WTF
  760. # [17:25] <grantg> :/
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  766. # [17:38] <grantg> http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gj599/can_your_pc_do_this/
  767. # [17:38] <grantg> heh
  768. # [17:40] <grantg> http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/g9dbw/can_your_mac_do_this/c1nwlbd
  769. # [17:40] <grantg> :P
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  789. # [18:00] <shichuan> paul_irish nimbupani: i have done the tagging
  790. # [18:01] <nimbupani> awes shichuan
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  792. # [18:02] <shichuan> paul_irish nimbupani: let me know anything need to change on the mbp-site, just committed updated template pages and everything
  793. # [18:02] <nimbupani> kay i will look shichuan
  794. # [18:03] <shichuan> nimbupani: cool
  795. # [18:07] <miketaylr> danielfilho: pinggg
  796. # [18:09] <nimbupani> http://www.gauravmanek.com/?rccar
  797. # [18:10] * nbari|away is now known as nbari
  798. # [18:11] <shichuan> to show 'thank u' note by default, add hash tag #thankunote
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  803. # [18:18] <nimbupani> yeah
  804. # [18:18] <nimbupani> makes sense.
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  870. # [19:14] <phrearch> evening
  871. # [19:15] * paul_irish_ is now known as paul_irish
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  873. # [19:17] <paul_irish> (i'll be afk for a few days, just FYI)
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  876. # [19:19] * paul_irish is now known as paul_irish_
  877. # [19:20] <phrearch> hm, this history api thing seems interesting
  878. # [19:20] <phrearch> http://diveintohtml5.org/history.html
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  880. # [19:22] <phrearch> is i already was about to use #/ urls but this is better :D
  881. # [19:23] <zewt> still stuck with hash urls if you want backwards-compatibility
  882. # [19:23] <zewt> such is web development, heh
  883. # [19:23] <phrearch> heh not really. im only developing for webkit atm
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  886. # [19:24] <zewt> always nice when you can do that
  887. # [19:24] <phrearch> yea, working on a websocket cms. i dont want to waste time with compatibility issues atm
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  890. # [19:25] <phrearch> with this history api, i can finally add urls to the location bar that point to websocket resources
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  893. # [19:30] <josefrichter> did small experiment with history api over here http://theie9countdown.com/
  894. # [19:30] <zewt> main thing right now i like about the history api is, when it's available, i no longer have to be so picky about what i put in the URL
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  896. # [19:31] <zewt> eg. with doc.loc.hash assignment you have to be careful only to change it when some important user interaction happens, or you'll spam the history; with replaceState you can be much more liberal with what you put there
  897. # [19:32] <phrearch> josefrichter: heh, nice initiative
  898. # [19:32] <zewt> even though most people still have to use hash URLs for a long time, that's something we can start taking advantage of right away
  899. # [19:32] <josefrichter> phrearch thanks
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  901. # [19:33] <phrearch> zewt: i thought initially it would be good for robots to browse, but i dont think crawlers can use websockets
  902. # [19:33] <josefrichter> I used history.js which add backward compatibility thru those ugly hash gangbangs :-)
  903. # [19:33] <zewt> i havn't touched websockets yet
  904. # [19:34] <phrearch> my websocket urls look like /views/modules/action/
  905. # [19:34] <phrearch> can put that in the location bar now, but no good for robots.txt i suppose
  906. # [19:34] <josefrichter> phrearch well generally if you can curl it, it's indexable, isn't it ?
  907. # [19:35] <phrearch> josefrichter: thats the point. the initial http request will always get the same bootstrapping data for the websocket
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  909. # [19:36] <phrearch> only after the websocket connection is made and the url is interpreted, the right content is retrieved
  910. # [19:36] <phrearch> always possible to keep a http api, but not really interesting for google crawlers atm
  911. # [19:37] <josefrichter> phrearch hmm out of luck I guess. probably need to have separate fallback urls just for crawlers.
  912. # [19:37] <phrearch> anyway, i need to experiment with this a bit first
  913. # [19:37] <phrearch> yea, cant hurt i guess
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  916. # [19:39] <phrearch> maybe announce a burn-your-internet-explorer-copy day?
  917. # [19:39] <josefrichter> :D
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  919. # [19:40] <phrearch> cant agree more. ie caused a lot of headaches for webdevs the last 10 years or so
  920. # [19:40] <josefrichter> burn your neighbor who still uses IE...
  921. # [19:41] <phrearch> heh, html5 will be a game changer i guess
  922. # [19:41] <phrearch> especially with the combined weight of apple and google
  923. # [19:42] <phrearch> apple already ditched flash, which is a good thing
  924. # [19:42] <phrearch> flash is still great for animations, but lets keep it out of websites if possible :)
  925. # [19:44] <josefrichter> yes but IE is still killing it. IE9 still doesnt support history API which is one of the coolest things in html5
  926. # [19:45] <phrearch> yea, support for other features like websockets and canvas is probably limited
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  928. # [19:46] <josefrichter> exactly. shame on MS for screwing it again :-(
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  948. # [20:09] <Moo---> I expect MS is not planning update their browser for another 5 years
  949. # [20:09] <Moo---> so we'll just stick in Chrome Frame?
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  952. # [20:11] <tw2113> given the trend that seems to be going on towards rolling releases and/or visiting the "about" menu item also updates the browser, they better start getting smart about things
  953. # [20:12] * Quits: chandan_kumar (~chandan@223.176.157.63) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  954. # [20:15] <tw2113> I think they do a lot of things in ways that I just don't agree with, but they aren't always stupid. I hope actually caring about browsers is one of them that they aren't dumb about
  955. # [20:15] * Joins: simplicity- (~simpli@unaffiliated/simplicity-)
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  959. # [20:18] * Joins: grantg (42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15)
  960. # [20:18] <grantg> hey tw2113
  961. # [20:18] <tw2113> yo grant
  962. # [20:18] <grantg> I heard of a prophecy that fortold of an amazing subreddit.
  963. # [20:18] <grantg> http://www.reddit.com/r/metametacirclejerk/
  964. # [20:19] <grantg> lolololol\
  965. # [20:19] <grantg> just surfing reddit and found that
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  967. # [20:19] <tw2113> nice
  968. # [20:20] <tw2113> lets see...IE7 = Oct 2006, IE8 = March 2009, IE9 = March 2011
  969. # [20:20] <tw2113> they are actually speeding things up
  970. # [20:20] <grantg> heh
  971. # [20:20] <grantg> Because IE has competition.
  972. # [20:20] <tw2113> averaging just about 2 year difference between major releases
  973. # [20:20] * Joins: chrislorenz (~chrislore@rrcs-76-79-247-242.west.biz.rr.com)
  974. # [20:21] <tw2113> at least with those versions
  975. # [20:22] <tw2113> i'll go out on a limb and say 1-2 years before IE10
  976. # [20:22] * grantg needs to stop being lazy and write that blog post others want me to do, release XAudioJS, release the Java port of GameBoy Online (no connection to gameboyonline.com), and release the GBA emu.
  977. # [20:23] <josefrichter> the problem is, the less hacking we do for desktop browsers, the more we do for mobile ones nowadays. anyone tried developing something for anndorid mobile browsers? :D pain in the ass
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  979. # [20:23] <josefrichter> tw2113 http://theie10countdown.com/
  980. # [20:23] <zewt> josefrichter: i despise androidbrowser
  981. # [20:24] <KaOSoFt> zewt, why? It loads really fast.
  982. # [20:24] <zewt> as a developer
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  984. # [20:24] * grantg is still finalizing the damn GUI of the desktop emu java port.
  985. # [20:24] <grantg> f'ing netbeans
  986. # [20:24] <zewt> if you've ever tried to write a full-screen web app for mobile phones, you'd know exactly why I despise it
  987. # [20:25] <josefrichter> zewt: yes, surprisingly bad :-( although, to be fair, mobile safari also requires tiny bit of hacking here and there.
  988. # [20:25] <zewt> (tip: huge address bar that you can get rid of in scrolling pages, but not in unscrolling web apps, without serious acrobatics)
  989. # [20:25] <grantg> zewt: Funny when you put frash on an iphone, you realize how much sites depend on flash for
  990. # [20:25] <grantg> 10 "flash" boxes
  991. # [20:25] <zewt> well, I use flashblock, heh
  992. # [20:25] <grantg> and half the flash apps crash
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  994. # [20:26] <zewt> (for reference: iOS lets you set a property to ask it to remove the address bar; it only works in the somewhat obscure web-application browser mode, eg. "add to home screen"--but at least it exists)
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  997. # [20:26] * grantg at least knows http://homestarrunner.com/ runs on iOS 4 once you install frash
  998. # [20:27] <grantg> :P
  999. # [20:27] <josefrichter> zewt: I think guys also scroll window 1px which also hides the address bar on iphone
  1000. # [20:27] <grantg> the site is 100% flash
  1001. # [20:27] <grantg> <><
  1002. # [20:27] <grantg> <.<
  1003. # [20:27] <zewt> that doesn't work in Android if the page isn't actually scrollable (eg. full-screen web apps, Google Maps-style)
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  1005. # [20:27] <Moo---> what's frash?
  1006. # [20:27] <tw2113> flash in engrish
  1007. # [20:28] <josefrichter> zewt: I see. youre fucked :-)
  1008. # [20:28] <zewt> well
  1009. # [20:28] <zewt> 90% fucked :)
  1010. # [20:28] <zewt> i found a workaround, but it's really disgusting and brittle
  1011. # [20:28] <josefrichter> zewt: maybe Phonegap has some tricks?
  1012. # [20:28] <zewt> (add a buffer div to allow the page to scroll, scrollTo, wait for the scrollTo to finish--it animates (not making this up)--then remove the div)
  1013. # [20:29] <zewt> horrid but the only method I've found at all
  1014. # [20:29] <josefrichter> zewt ugh :-o
  1015. # [20:29] <zewt> (and I think it broke in 2.3, havn't looked into why but hardly surprising)
  1016. # [20:29] <zewt> it's angering since Google is a company pretty much built on web apps, yet their mobile platform totally half-asses web apps
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  1029. # [20:35] <Michael> paul_irish_, Does Chrome support -webkit-transition shorthand?
  1030. # [20:35] <Michael> If so I'm not having luck
  1031. # [20:36] <Peter`> It does
  1032. # [20:36] <Peter`> What kidn of problems are you running in to?
  1033. # [20:37] <Michael> Trying -webkit-transition: transform .5s ease-in-out;
  1034. # [20:37] <Michael> It's having no effect
  1035. # [20:37] <Michael> But if I specify all 3 attributes it works fine
  1036. # [20:37] <Michael> Or do I need to specify all 4 values (delay) ?
  1037. # [20:38] <Michael> Even with that it's not animating
  1038. # [20:38] <Peter`> It should work fine like that
  1039. # [20:39] <Peter`> uh no
  1040. # [20:39] <Peter`> you should use -webkit-transform :)
  1041. # [20:39] <Michael> ?
  1042. # [20:39] <Michael> I have that as well
  1043. # [20:39] <Michael> ohhhh
  1044. # [20:39] <Michael> for the keyword
  1045. # [20:39] <Peter`> indeed
  1046. # [20:40] <Michael> Sorry - new to this
  1047. # [20:40] <Michael> Kind of confusing at first
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  1049. # [20:40] <Peter`> http://peter.sh/files/webkit-transition-transform.html
  1050. # [20:41] <Michael> thanks. I'm making a cheat sheet and I'd like to add that link if you're okay with that
  1051. # [20:42] <Peter`> Uh, sure. It's just a quick example though :)
  1052. # [20:42] <Michael> All info is good info
  1053. # [20:42] <Michael> and thank you!
  1054. # [20:43] * nbari is now known as nbari|away
  1055. # [20:44] <Peter`> No problem at all :)
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  1063. # [20:48] <danielfilho> oh my!
  1064. # [20:48] <danielfilho> :D
  1065. # [20:48] <Michael> I wish I could show this animation. I'm digging it
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  1110. # [22:12] <Sephi-Chan> Hello
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  1113. # [22:13] <Sephi-Chan> I switch few elements of my site (romaintribes.fr) to HTML5 but… IE8 can't style them despite the use of html5shif (http://code.google.com/p/html5shiv/). Any idea ?
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  1135. # [22:39] <phrearch> omg, contenteditable is a true nightmare
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  1137. # [22:51] <Michael> oh?
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  1185. # [23:55] <zewt> bleh browsers have a lot of work to do on reporting webgl problems
  1186. # [23:55] <zewt> spend a bunch of time trying to figure out why code isn't working, until i find that none is, in chrome or ff4--ff4 silently fails (black canvas), chrome says "error creating webgl context" with no actual error
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  1188. # [23:58] <zewt> oh, that error is probably whatever random test code I ran--so no info at all (err)
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  1192. # Session Close: Wed Apr 06 00:00:01 2011

The end :)