/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-05-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun May 01 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  4. # [00:01] <paul_irish> i dont consider jquery from goog cdn being 3rd party
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  6. # [00:01] <benv> well, of course, mr google :)
  7. # [00:02] <paul_irish> or the msft cdn
  8. # [00:02] <paul_irish> :)
  9. # [00:02] <paul_irish> SINCE I CONTROL THE GOOG CDN
  10. # [00:02] <paul_irish> MUHAHAHAHA
  11. # [00:02] <benv> lol
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  15. # [00:05] <swalk> so you're the one who caused that downtime when 1.5 came out? :)
  16. # [00:06] <paul_irish> hehe that was the one time i didnt do the push
  17. # [00:06] <paul_irish> also whoever is hotlinking to /1.5/ deserves it
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  19. # [00:09] * nickbaugh chow mein .. nom nom nom
  20. # [00:11] <nickbaugh> any sexy linux command line coloring?
  21. # [00:12] <nickbaugh> debian
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  24. # [00:16] <nickbaugh> nimbupani: \o
  25. # [00:16] <nimbupani> hi nickbaugh
  26. # [00:16] <nimbupani> oh paul converted u too
  27. # [00:16] <nickbaugh> :)
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  64. # [01:46] <kyxzme> do you speak dojo?
  65. # [01:47] <monteslu> everyone cool speaks dojo :)
  66. # [01:48] <monteslu> for everyone else, there's jquery
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  80. # [02:05] <andrewjbaker> Hi all. I've not been on for a bit.
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  83. # [02:06] <andrewjbaker> Just blogged a couple more screenshots of my HTML5 game work-in-progress... http://fleetingfantasy.wordpress.com/
  84. # [02:06] <andrewjbaker> Live demo's here... http://fleetingfantasy.com/
  85. # [02:07] <andrewjbaker> Gonna' clean up the JS tomorrow before making a start on the back-end.
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  99. # [02:23] <eboyjr> Can anyone tell me if you see blurry text? http://68.104.15.222:8080/oftn/suit-canvas-toolkit/
  100. # [02:23] <eboyjr> In Chromium 13 and Firefox 3.6 I see blurring
  101. # [02:23] <tw2113> FF4.0.1 shows blurry
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  118. # [02:48] <nickbaugh> tw2113: yt?
  119. # [02:49] <tw2113> huh
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  124. # [03:16] <nickbaugh> tw2113: its niftylettuce
  125. # [03:16] <tw2113> ah yt = you there
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  127. # [03:18] <tw2113> nope, not here at all :P
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  139. # [03:53] <tw2113> lolwut "What you do is make the site look the same on all major browsers and stop using the latest new toys that don't fully work yet for real projects."
  140. # [03:54] <tw2113> http://www.reddit.com/r/web_design/comments/h0hra/tailoring_a_site_to_ie/
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  142. # [03:54] <grantg> tw2113: My mom's workplace still uses IE7 for all their pharmaceutical reps' computers
  143. # [03:54] <grantg> and they ONLY allow IE7
  144. # [03:55] <grantg> multi-billion dollar pharama company can't even upgrade their worker laptops to IE8 or firefox or chrome, etc.
  145. # [03:55] <grantg> *pharma
  146. # [03:55] <tw2113> could be worse, but could be be better
  147. # [03:56] <grantg> tw2113: And every single copy of IE7 doesn't even have the latest security patches installed. lolwtf
  148. # [03:56] <tw2113> and they can get one experience that isn't pixel perfect to someone else's design
  149. # [03:56] <tw2113> i'd make sure the site was at least functional
  150. # [03:56] <grantg> They designed their multi-billion dollar VPN intranet site against IE6 & IE7
  151. # [03:56] <grantg> In fact IE7 runs in quirks fucking mode
  152. # [03:57] <grantg> and they "has javascripts" when I checked out a view-source
  153. # [03:57] <tw2113> in that reddit post, i link andy clarke's hardboileddesign site twice :D
  154. # [03:57] <grantg> illegal markup, lots of lolwuts with JS
  155. # [03:58] <grantg> like a 5th grader did the markup and coding
  156. # [03:58] <grantg> DO NOT WANT
  157. # [03:58] <tw2113> i'd have fun making the site break for those people
  158. # [03:58] <grantg> almost as bad as wileyplus' markup and js code
  159. # [03:59] <tw2113> just to keep them off my sites while at work
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  161. # [04:02] <grantg> I hate this: <!-- MOVED UP 5 LINES BY BILLY BOB ON XX/XX/XXXX --><!-- alert("welcome to XXXXXXXXXX"); -->
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  165. # [04:04] <grantg> and the actual code after is just a document.write that generates an iframe via invalid markup that then is positioned across the WHOLE DAMN screen.
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  167. # [04:04] <tw2113> i've seen too many shittily marked up WordPress themes lately
  168. # [04:05] <grantg> yeah
  169. # [04:06] <grantg> I still see <center><p><b></center></p>
  170. # [04:06] <grantg> on fortune 500 sites
  171. # [04:07] <grantg> <_<
  172. # [04:07] <tw2113> they have a harder time changing things than small time sites
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  174. # [04:07] <grantg> especially when half their html was from when IE 5 was their target
  175. # [04:08] <grantg> lots of these pages still exist
  176. # [04:08] <grantg> and their markup burns everyone's eyes when looked upon.
  177. # [04:08] <grantg> NSFWD
  178. # [04:08] <grantg> [not safe for web developer]
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  180. # [04:10] <grantg> and it seems a hella lot of major websites fail to use DOM at all, except when JQuery is doing it for you.
  181. # [04:10] <grantg> they just do DHTML, rather than proper DOM
  182. # [04:10] <grantg> sad thing is even IE5 does a lot of DOM
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  184. # [04:11] <tw2113> ever seen subway.com's markup?
  185. # [04:12] <grantg> no, why?
  186. # [04:12] <grantg> OMFG
  187. # [04:12] <tw2113> because it's that bad
  188. # [04:12] <grantg> YUP
  189. # [04:12] <grantg> KILL IT WITH FIRE
  190. # [04:13] <tw2113> doctype declaration on line 169
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  193. # [04:14] <grantg> LOLWTF LOLWTF LOLWTF
  194. # [04:14] <tw2113> go to like 333
  195. # [04:14] <tw2113> line*
  196. # [04:14] <grantg> SOMEONE PLEASE POUR GASOLINE ON subway.com's WEB SERVER!
  197. # [04:15] <grantg> Even IE6 should be spared from this atrocity.
  198. # [04:15] <tw2113> after someone posted the site to reddit, they responded in their source code
  199. # [04:15] <techrush> new corporate tagline: Subway: Rockin tables since 1999
  200. # [04:16] <techrush> new corporate tagline: Subway: Same Website Since Man invented Sandwiches
  201. # [04:16] <tw2113> toasted tables available
  202. # [04:17] <grantg> AN OUT OF DATE .NET EXTENSIONS ISN'T A GOOD REASON FOR THIS PILE OF POOP.
  203. # [04:18] <grantg> Their site must be as hackable as hell then if that's the case.
  204. # [04:18] <tw2113> i'm amazed it renders the way it does
  205. # [04:18] <grantg> and they're probably running it on a windows 2000 server
  206. # [04:18] <grantg> tw2113: Quirks mode since 2002
  207. # [04:19] <grantg> FOREVERQUIRKSMODE
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  209. # [04:20] <grantg> tw2113: Thank the browser vendors for creating quirks mode
  210. # [04:20] <tw2113> i'm happy i was able to make grantg's day
  211. # [04:20] <grantg> heh
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  213. # [04:25] <grantg> thanks
  214. # [04:25] <grantg> now for eye bleach
  215. # [04:25] <grantg> http://www.eyebleach.com/
  216. # [04:27] <tw2113> the stuff at the top is too big and makes you have to scroll for too much of the image
  217. # [04:27] <tw2113> this is bad design
  218. # [04:27] <grantg> ack
  219. # [04:27] <grantg> eyebleach to the eyebleach?!?
  220. # [04:28] <tw2113> stop looking at the alternative version
  221. # [04:28] <grantg> There's an alternative version?
  222. # [04:29] <tw2113> yeah, you have to actually read the content
  223. # [04:29] <grantg> I JUST LOOK AT THE DAMN IMAGES
  224. # [04:29] <grantg> -_-
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  226. # [04:31] <grantg> ---> http://www.reddit.com/r/worstwebsites <---
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  229. # [04:33] <grantg> http://www.fabricland.co.uk/
  230. # [04:33] <Waffle> Hey, you can draw part of an image using the drawImage method like the example at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Canvas_tutorial/Using_images#Slicing. Is there a way to store part of an image in an image variable like that?
  231. # [04:33] <grantg> tw2113: DREAMWEAVER USER. :/
  232. # [04:35] <tw2113> who?
  233. # [04:35] <grantg> http://www.dotcomandshit.org/
  234. # [04:35] <grantg> crashed chrome. lolwtf
  235. # [04:36] <miketaylr> wow this site is amazing
  236. # [04:36] <grantg> http://yvettesbridalformal.com/index.htm
  237. # [04:36] <tw2113> recreate it in css3
  238. # [04:37] * Joins: brettgoulder (~brettgoul@208-90-212-213.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net)
  239. # [04:37] <tw2113> oh hey, it's grantg http://yvettesbridalformal.com/images/test221_0054.jpg
  240. # [04:38] <grantg> lolwtf
  241. # [04:38] <tw2113> :P
  242. # [04:39] <grantg> http://www.wendyswebpagedesign.com/pages/web.php
  243. # [04:41] <grantg> Made for Netscape Navigator 4.0: http://www.entertainmentcinemas.com/
  244. # [04:42] <grantg> What happens when your webpage is all ads and is from 1996: http://anselme.homestead.com/AFPHAITI.html
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  247. # [04:44] <grantg> unexpected contender: http://www.drudgereport.com/
  248. # [04:45] <grantg> And this is just like a 1996 page full of ads, BUT ALL IN FLASH: http://fastdesign7.com/
  249. # [04:46] <tw2113> http://twitpic.com/4rjvki
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  251. # [04:48] <grantg> YOU WILL MOST DEFINITELY NEED SOME FORM OF EXTRA STRENGTH EYEBLEACH FOR http://www.dokimos.org/ajff/
  252. # [04:50] <grantg> My first question here is why the hell is tripod still alive: http://briansfunnyjokes.tripod.com/
  253. # [04:51] <moshee> rofl grantg
  254. # [04:51] <moshee> the pain
  255. # [04:52] <moshee> </b<> lol
  256. # [04:52] <grantg> moshee: http://www.lingscars.com/
  257. # [04:52] <moshee> hahaha
  258. # [04:59] <grantg> Brought to you by the New York dept. of transportation: http://ezpass.com/
  259. # [05:01] <tw2113> all this stuff....i call "potential work"
  260. # [05:02] <grantg> Their budget: Free
  261. # [05:02] <grantg> "Lets the nephew do it"
  262. # [05:03] <moshee> html5 is so cool guys
  263. # [05:03] <moshee> you guys are all awesome
  264. # [05:06] <grantg> moshee: Last one - http://spinningflamingskull.com/
  265. # [05:07] <moshee> loool
  266. # [05:07] <moshee> html5 done right
  267. # [05:07] <moshee> too bad they removed frames
  268. # [05:11] <grantg> tw2113: The worst violator I've seen: http://www.lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala.com/
  269. # [05:12] <tw2113> and it's not even that annoying to me
  270. # [05:12] <moshee> WHY IS THIS WEBSITE BANNED IN CHINA?
  271. # [05:12] <moshee> lol
  272. # [05:13] <tw2113> offensive to furries?
  273. # [05:16] <grantg> tw2113: Not to mention the HIGHLY NSFW links on that page
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  275. # [05:16] <grantg> like redtube + 4chan had an orgy
  276. # [05:16] <tw2113> oh chinese government
  277. # [05:16] <grantg> good
  278. # [05:17] <grantg> they banned this site to spare the chinese from viewing a "site that should never be seen"
  279. # [05:17] <grantg> for real
  280. # [05:17] <grantg> the great firewall finally blocked something that needed blocking for once.
  281. # [05:18] <moshee> the great firewall is such a joke lol
  282. # [05:18] <moshee> last time I went to china I got around it in like 5 minutes
  283. # [05:19] <grantg> moshee: glype proxy FTW
  284. # [05:19] <moshee> eh I used a tunnel
  285. # [05:19] <grantg> I've thought about writing my own proxy
  286. # [05:19] <moshee> to the computer I'm on now
  287. # [05:19] <grantg> moshee: heh
  288. # [05:19] <moshee> ssh tunnel
  289. # [05:20] <grantg> implement a js runtime in js
  290. # [05:20] <grantg> so the site it's proxying has its code run in a js runtime in code written in js
  291. # [05:20] <moshee> yo dawg
  292. # [05:20] <grantg> so the code of the site thinks its running on its own
  293. # [05:20] <moshee> that would be cool actually
  294. # [05:21] <grantg> only way I see to getting facebook and myspace to work right in a php proxy site. :P
  295. # [05:21] <grantg> moshee: A "yo dawg" totally acceptable here.
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  310. # [06:11] <grantg> DAE remember <BGSOUND> ?
  311. # [06:11] <grantg> 1999 called. :/
  312. # [06:12] <tw2113> vaguely
  313. # [06:13] <grantg> I wonder if anyone here is using it as an audio fallback for IE 6-8
  314. # [06:14] <grantg> <audio> before <audio>
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  318. # [06:32] <danbeam> paul_irish: http://paulirish.com/2010/high-res-browser-icons/ <-- can you even use these in your own talk?
  319. # [06:32] <danbeam> (or can I use them in mine, more importantly, :P)
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  327. # [07:14] * danbeam still takes that as a maybe
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  336. # [08:11] <paul_irish> danbeam|afk: YOU CAN
  337. # [08:11] <paul_irish> GO WILD
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  373. # [10:52] <skylamer> anyone can tell how to make a browser-like thing in iframe ?
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  539. # [20:42] <|ntegra|> is this a good place to ask for a mentor?
  540. # [20:44] <tomh> not sure, try it
  541. # [20:45] <tomh> and tell us the results :)
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  543. # [20:47] <|ntegra|> hey, if you're a regular here and have some time here and there, would you please mentor me?
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  545. # [20:48] <|ntegra|> how's that tom?
  546. # [20:48] <tomh> well sounds like a good question to me :)
  547. # [20:48] <|ntegra|> cool
  548. # [20:48] <tomh> what exactly do you need mentoring for?
  549. # [20:48] <|ntegra|> well, my first <super-dooper> website of course!
  550. # [20:49] <|ntegra|> first. as in, never before but 'must' be done
  551. # [20:49] <tomh> you have never made a website before?
  552. # [20:51] <|ntegra|> no never
  553. # [20:51] <tomh> ok
  554. # [20:52] <|ntegra|> I like these pages up top there, they make it look simple enough
  555. # [20:53] <tw2113> my main thing i want to contribute to this discussion, don't completely disregard html tags and whatnot just because it is an "html4" tag
  556. # [20:53] <tw2113> most of the html4 stuff is still around and valid, html5 mostly adds to the list
  557. # [20:53] <moshee> the only thing you should stay away from is frames
  558. # [20:53] <tw2113> and simplifies things
  559. # [20:53] <moshee> and tables for layout :O
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  561. # [20:54] <|ntegra|> ok
  562. # [20:55] <tw2113> any doctype beyond <!doctype html> is too much typing and wasted characters :P
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  564. # [20:58] <|ntegra|> tw2113 would you mentor me? (do you have other favourite pages on the subject you could share, and some insight into making <super-dooper> webpages, and a little time here and there to chat?)
  565. # [20:58] <|ntegra|> (pages other that the ones up top there - I mean)
  566. # [20:59] <tw2113> i'm not believing in this "mentoring" idea
  567. # [20:59] <tw2113> read, research, try things out, tinker, and if you have questions, come on in here and ask
  568. # [20:59] <|ntegra|> I wouldn't be surprised if, with a great set of bookmarks, I could make good without much supervision anyway
  569. # [20:59] <moshee> the best way to learn websites is to read on the internet and examine some nice-looking websites
  570. # [20:59] <tw2113> whether it's me chiming in or someone else, hopefully someone can help or point you to a good resource
  571. # [20:59] <tw2113> http://trexthepirate.com/newt/
  572. # [21:00] <moshee> once you get a bit further along you can use chrome's developer tools
  573. # [21:00] <moshee> those are really nice
  574. # [21:00] <moshee> and yeah good list of things
  575. # [21:00] <tw2113> that link is my working collective resource for new people
  576. # [21:00] <tw2113> i keep tweaking it as i go along
  577. # [21:01] <moshee> although if you've never made a website before it may be better to start with how exactly everything fits together in the beginning
  578. # [21:01] <tw2113> which is why i said to not disregard html4 stuff
  579. # [21:03] <|ntegra|> oh cool
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  583. # [21:04] <ryanthegeek> looking for some assistance with a css issue.......takers?
  584. # [21:04] <ryanthegeek> http://www.webdevout.net/test?01s
  585. # [21:05] <ryanthegeek> my secondary nav children are laying on top of the other children from the primary ul
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  587. # [21:08] <snover> ryanthegeek: #css
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  600. # [21:40] <outlaws> hey guys
  601. # [21:40] <outlaws> should i be making my pages in html5
  602. # [21:40] <outlaws> has the net transferred to html5 yet
  603. # [21:40] <moshee> you can start
  604. # [21:40] <moshee> it's a slow process
  605. # [21:40] <moshee> and you can be one more step
  606. # [21:41] <outlaws> i got clients who wants flash like animation but i hate adobe so i refuse to use flash
  607. # [21:42] <Andrevan> lots of good html4 pages will validate well as html5
  608. # [21:42] <uf0> outlaws: html5 is not a good idea for flash replacement yet
  609. # [21:42] <uf0> fyi
  610. # [21:42] <uf0> but html5 in general go for it!
  611. # [21:42] <outlaws> ok
  612. # [21:42] <outlaws> i guesss its worthwhile to learn it just in case
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  614. # [21:43] <Andrevan> if you already know XHTML you don't really have to learn a lot of new stuff
  615. # [21:43] <tw2113> the semantic tags can work across all browsers with a tiny touch of javascript
  616. # [21:44] <outlaws> yeah the canvas is what i really want to learn for the animations
  617. # [21:44] <outlaws> it seems like it's the same canvas used on the mobile platforms
  618. # [21:44] <tw2113> you should find pretty good browser support there, but it isn't covered by all
  619. # [21:45] <tw2113> ?g html5 polyfills
  620. # [21:45] <bot-t> tw2113, HTML5 Cross Browser Polyfills - GitHub - https://github.com/Modernizr/Modernizr/wiki/HTML5-Cross-browser-Polyfills
  621. # [21:45] <tw2113> check that link too
  622. # [21:45] <outlaws> thx
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  625. # [21:52] <jetienne> yeah after pacman in 3D, wait for pacman in 3D night life :)
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  633. # [22:16] <grantg> paul_irish: Another 3D demo I found online, so I bundled it with the js gbc emu: http://www.grantgalitz.org/get_the_hell_out/GB_3D_Texture_Test/
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  659. # [22:38] <jetienne> http://yfrog.com/gzygrtp pacmaze at night http://yfrog.com/hsjghbp
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  663. # [22:52] <Waffle> Using DrawImage, you can display part of a larger image. Can you store part of an image as an image variable?
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  668. # [22:54] <Ms2ger> Waffle, what is "an image variable"?
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  670. # [22:55] <Waffle> Ms2ger: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Canvas_tutorial/Using_images#Creating_an_image_from_scratch
  671. # [22:55] <miketaylr> you could store a big hunk of base64 encoded image as a string...
  672. # [22:56] <jetienne> Waffle: yes you can
  673. # [22:56] <Waffle> All I've been able to find is var img = new Image(); which has src and onload attributes
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  679. # [22:56] <Ms2ger> new Image() === document.createElement("img")
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  682. # [22:57] <Ms2ger> I'd love to know how jetienne would do it
  683. # [22:58] <Ms2ger> Maybe by drawing it on a canvas and then extracting a data: URL?
  684. # [22:59] <Waffle> I think this works: img.src = ctx.drawImage(document.getElementById('source'),0,0,104,124,21,20,87,104); where img is the image variable and ctx is the canvas
  685. # [22:59] <Waffle> It looks like it draws right using ctx.drawImage(img);
  686. # [22:59] <jetienne> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#dom-context-2d-getimagedata <- Waffle this is one way to get part of an existing image
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  688. # [23:00] <Ms2ger> Waffle, drawImage doesn't return anything
  689. # [23:00] <jetienne> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#dom-canvas-todataurl this is another, the first being more pixel oriented, the second more url/web
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  691. # [23:09] <Waffle> Ms2ger, yeah, it displays what I'm looking for, but I think its just referenceing the ctx.drawImage stuff.
  692. # [23:09] <Waffle> Not storing the data as an image
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The end :)