/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-05-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue May 10 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  37. # [00:28] <grantg> tw2113: are you on windows?
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  41. # [00:33] <grantg> paul_irish: http://www.grantgalitz.org/sound_test should work in firefox 4 on windows xp now. :)
  42. # [00:33] <grantg> the audio was finally fixed
  43. # [00:33] <grantg> by a nasty workaround
  44. # [00:34] <grantg> due to the way firefox does its audio logic
  45. # [00:35] <grantg> since firefox is picky and fails on its audio logic when lot when not done with this ultra weird 2x prebuffer routine.
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  47. # [00:38] <tw2113> no
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  75. # [01:49] <_uf0> filters make IE unclickable on a button tag
  76. # [01:49] <_uf0> such as filter: progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Gradient(startColorStr='#00aeef', EndColorStr='#00a2df');
  77. # [01:49] <_uf0> anyone come across this issue?
  78. # [01:49] <snover> _uf0: there are many workarounds.
  79. # [01:49] <_uf0> i tried the usual zoom: 1
  80. # [01:49] <snover> _uf0: you should probably just use CSS3 PIE.
  81. # [01:49] <_uf0> position: relative and nothing
  82. # [01:50] <_uf0> css3 pie is out.. not using that
  83. # [01:50] * Rob- is now known as robhawkes
  84. # [01:50] <_uf0> what else is there
  85. # [01:50] <snover> in order for filters to work at all, you need to have layout already, so of course adding layout is not going to work
  86. # [01:50] <snover> what reason do you have for not using css3 pie?
  87. # [01:50] <_uf0> htc isn't added in apache
  88. # [01:51] <_uf0> and I'm unable to touch that.
  89. # [01:51] <tw2113> i hate clients that insist on making it stupidly "simple" for non tech people to print a pdf
  90. # [01:52] <_uf0> tw2113: :)
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  92. # [01:53] <_uf0> snover: anything else?
  93. # [01:53] <_uf0> if I can't find a solution, I might just do a background solid color fall back
  94. # [01:53] <_uf0> and end it
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  97. # [01:54] <tw2113> cause you know, everyone wants to print off a 42 page annual report
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  99. # [01:54] <_uf0> lol
  100. # [01:54] <snover> _uf0: the css3pie site specifically provides two workarounds for that
  101. # [01:54] <tw2113> especially old folks
  102. # [01:55] <_uf0> snover: word? let me check
  103. # [01:55] <_uf0> tw2113: those clients are great ;)
  104. # [01:56] <snover> tw2113: I don’t understand!
  105. # [01:56] <tw2113> which part?
  106. # [01:57] <snover> why do you hate clients that want to make things simple?
  107. # [01:57] <tw2113> have you tried getting a pdf to print easily from the browser?
  108. # [01:58] <tw2113> without downloading locally and opening in Adobe Reader
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  110. # [02:02] <snover> tw2113: do you want a bad suggestion? :)
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  114. # [02:04] <snover> tw2113: SAY YES ALREADY
  115. # [02:04] <tw2113> tattoo it on their foreheads?
  116. # [02:05] <snover> Convert the PDF to SWF and then tell Flash to print itself
  117. # [02:05] <snover> :)
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  119. # [02:06] <ericam_> now that's what I call an HTML5 recommendation
  120. # [02:06] <snover> i know right!?
  121. # [02:06] <ericam_> classy
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  123. # [02:07] * tw2113 puts snover on ignore
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  126. # [02:08] <tw2113> bbl anyway, i need to boot into windblows
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  165. # [03:18] <grantg> digitalfiz: You're in tampa?
  166. # [03:19] <digitalfiz> close
  167. # [03:19] <digitalfiz> im in lakeland
  168. # [03:19] <grantg> floridian high five!
  169. # [03:20] * tw2113 goes to the other corner
  170. # [03:21] <digitalfiz> :D
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  388. # [12:49] * Rob- is now known as robhawkes
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  392. # [13:10] * psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|lunch
  393. # [13:15] * Quits: pa7 (51d9746e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.217.116.110) (Quit: Page closed)
  394. # [13:22] * Quits: SaadIbrahim (~mslfreak@unaffiliated/saadibrahim) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  395. # [13:23] <jetienne> is rem on irc ?
  396. # [13:24] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  397. # [13:24] <jetienne> got serious bugs on https://github.com/remy/inliner
  398. # [13:24] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  399. # [13:25] <jetienne> inliner https://gist.github.com/raw/964292/d104c9980627428eb138b5eafcaea85fd792ddcc/gistfile1.txt <- this produce nothing
  400. # [13:25] <jetienne> i mean doesnt output anychar... no compressed page, nothing
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  403. # [13:33] * psynaptic|lunch is now known as psynaptic
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  533. # [17:05] <Michael> Howdy
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  544. # [17:27] <shichuan> Michael: hi
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  553. # [17:37] <JonathanNeal> Should message boards use tables?
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  555. # [17:38] <nimbupani> shichuan: whats option 1 and option 2?
  556. # [17:40] <shichuan> option 2 is in htaccess
  557. # [17:40] <shichuan> where they force to remove the slash
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  559. # [17:41] <shichuan> # Option 2:
  560. # [17:41] <nimbupani> ohh
  561. # [17:41] <nimbupani> k
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  563. # [17:42] <nimbupani> shichuan: we do want to keep rewrite www.domain -> domain.com
  564. # [17:42] <nimbupani> at least I know I want to.
  565. # [17:42] <nimbupani> the only thing to decide on is the relative url thing
  566. # [17:43] <nimbupani> the DirectorySlashOn
  567. # [17:43] <nimbupani> Option 2 can remain there as it is still commented out, but it might need an pdate depending on what we decide with the Slash
  568. # [17:44] <nimbupani> shichuan: SORRY
  569. # [17:44] <nimbupani> there are like Option 1 and Option 2 for several things
  570. # [17:44] <nimbupani> GAWD
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  572. # [17:44] <nimbupani> you mean this I suppose shichuan https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/blob/3180b3f3dd9b10e486cd35fa74e7b3753829455c/.htaccess#L332
  573. # [17:44] <shichuan> lol
  574. # [17:44] <shichuan> yea, sorry, i was lost
  575. # [17:45] <shichuan> some mis com
  576. # [17:45] <nimbupani> haha yeah sorry too.
  577. # [17:46] <shichuan> :)
  578. # [17:46] <nimbupani> soo DirectorySlashOn would be enough as you say
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  581. # [17:46] <shichuan> so option 2 can remove?
  582. # [17:46] <nimbupani> i think we need to update the comment on top to say they would have to uncomment if that redirect should not happen.
  583. # [17:46] <nimbupani> its slightly different from the ReWrite that exists right now.
  584. # [17:47] <shichuan> actually it's on by default
  585. # [17:47] <nimbupani> then why are we rewriting >_>
  586. # [17:48] <shichuan> hmmm, yea
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  588. # [17:48] <shichuan> yea, seems it's on by default, and it's generally warned not to off it
  589. # [17:49] <shichuan> so we just remove the whole thing?
  590. # [17:49] <nimbupani> no there is more to it.
  591. # [17:49] <shichuan> like what?
  592. # [17:49] <nimbupani> http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2010/04/to-slash-or-not-to-slash.html
  593. # [17:49] <nimbupani> we need a 301 for google.
  594. # [17:50] <nimbupani> search engine juice.
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  596. # [17:53] <shichuan> but if the default is On, means no slash will be redirect to slash url, we are under the first bullet point right?
  597. # [17:53] <shichuan> and the first bullet point says as long as it redirects from one to another, it's fine right?
  598. # [17:53] <shichuan> regardless of what returns
  599. # [17:53] <nimbupani> true when would there be duplicate content?
  600. # [17:54] <shichuan> i think maybe on none apache servers? or very old relic apache server?
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  604. # [17:57] <nimbupani> i am not sure :| i wish some people who have done this on huge ass sites can chime in
  605. # [17:57] <shichuan> let me try on my shared server
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  610. # [18:04] <shichuan> nimbupani: on all my shard hosting accounts, old and new, seems it's working by default
  611. # [18:04] <shichuan> but let's leave it open for a while
  612. # [18:04] <shichuan> n case other ppl have other concerns
  613. # [18:04] <nimbupani> shichuan: can you close the related other issues and open a new one
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  615. # [18:04] <nimbupani> with what we have so far?
  616. # [18:05] <nimbupani> I wanna tweet it and see if someone would comment .
  617. # [18:05] <shichuan> i mean if i remove everything, it still redirect to slash url
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  619. # [18:05] <shichuan> so the option 1 is a default with/without our code or any code
  620. # [18:05] <shichuan> and option 2 is not recommanded
  621. # [18:06] <nimbupani> shichuan: it may not be the case if people have other rewrites
  622. # [18:06] <nimbupani> i want to know when duplicate content occurs and how often does it happen for google to recommend a 301 rewrite.
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  624. # [18:07] <nimbupani> everyone in SEO World is talking like using 301 is the holy grail
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  626. # [18:07] <nimbupani> i want to hear from them to see why they would think so and if it has any merit
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  628. # [18:07] <shichuan> yea, sure
  629. # [18:07] <shichuan> i will test a bit more also
  630. # [18:08] <nimbupani> kay awesome.
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  632. # [18:10] <shichuan> ok, use my blog as an example, let you mentioned, for instance, there are wordpress rewrite rules also
  633. # [18:10] <shichuan> *like
  634. # [18:10] <nimbupani> yeah
  635. # [18:10] <shichuan> with our code in htaccess
  636. # [18:11] <shichuan> it doesn't redirect my http://www.blog.highub.com/category/mobile-2 to slash url
  637. # [18:11] <nimbupani> ha
  638. # [18:11] <shichuan> but for a physical folder, it does http://www.blog.highub.com/wp-content/
  639. # [18:11] <shichuan> but so does without any rule
  640. # [18:12] <shichuan> so, means so far i didnt see a difference yet
  641. # [18:12] <nimbupani> shichuan: then http://www.blog.highub.com/category/mobile-2/
  642. # [18:12] <nimbupani> is a separate url :/
  643. # [18:13] <nimbupani> from http://www.blog.highub.com/category/mobile-2
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  645. # [18:13] <nimbupani> the idea is to redirect the latest url to http://www.blog.highub.com/category/mobile-2/ afaik
  646. # [18:13] <nimbupani> so there is no duplicate content
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  649. # [18:15] <shichuan> yea, but that's an issue of wordpress rewrite rule. which means if it's a virtual url, it doesnt redirect with/without the slash rules we have
  650. # [18:15] <shichuan> if it's an actual folder url, it redirects with/without the slash rules we have
  651. # [18:16] <nimbupani> yes our purpose in life w.r.t .htaccess is to make every url exist once once. either with or without / afaik
  652. # [18:16] <nimbupani> could you modify wp rules to match what we have?
  653. # [18:17] <nimbupani> and test?
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  655. # [18:18] <shichuan> sorry, maybe i didn't explain clearly
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  668. # [18:37] <Jon47> do search engines regard those two URLs as different?
  669. # [18:40] <nimbupani> yeah.
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  686. # [19:14] <Jon47> nimbupani: you're right http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2010/04/to-slash-or-not-to-slash.html
  687. # [19:16] * Quits: huskyr (~huskyr@ip169-070.vpro.nl) (Quit: huskyr)
  688. # [19:20] <danbeam> Jon47: Rule #6 made me lol
  689. # [19:20] <danbeam> Jon47: Step #6**
  690. # [19:21] <danbeam> Jon47: They were just missing the "???"
  691. # [19:21] <Jon47> heh
  692. # [19:21] <Jon47> yeah should be a step before that
  693. # [19:21] <danbeam> yup
  694. # [19:21] <danbeam> lol, intertubes jokes
  695. # [19:22] * Joins: grantg (42e5650f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.229.101.15)
  696. # [19:23] <grantg> paul_irish: I'm wondering if http://www.vupen.com/demos/VUPEN_Pwning_Chrome.php used the WAV PCM stack overflow
  697. # [19:23] <grantg> then it really is a 3rd party lib fault
  698. # [19:24] <grantg> let's not even begin on the security problems of NaCl though. ;)
  699. # [19:26] <grantg> there's definitely a delay there
  700. # [19:26] <grantg> the wav pcm exploit requires such
  701. # [19:26] <grantg> so it could be the same
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  713. # [19:41] <jetienne> "Minifying http://www.youtube.com/ could save 11.4KiB (13% reduction)" from google page speed online. I love the irony :) http://j.mp/jq8Om9
  714. # [19:41] * Joins: Filar (~kamil@dfq191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  715. # [19:44] <danbeam> jetienne: same with YSlow on http://yahoo.com
  716. # [19:45] <danbeam> jetienne: 1 F, 1 E, 3 Cs, 2 Bs
  717. # [19:45] <jetienne> danbeam: hehe
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  719. # [19:54] <danbeam> does anybody in this room plan on using Music Beta by Google?
  720. # [19:55] <vier> i would like to, how do we sign up?
  721. # [19:55] <danbeam> ?g music beta by google
  722. # [19:55] <danbeam> fuck
  723. # [19:55] <danbeam> no bots
  724. # [19:55] <danbeam> google search it
  725. # [19:55] <vier> oooh cool
  726. # [19:56] <danbeam> iono, I have too much music to upload, so I probably won't
  727. # [19:57] <jetienne> http://www.betarecords.com/ this is the first hit for "music beta" :) im sure those people loves google right now :)
  728. # [19:57] <Michael> USE DROPBOX http://db.tt/uhvKTSQ
  729. # [19:57] <Michael> It saves small children and innocent animals
  730. # [19:57] <vier> why cant i fastforward google io's live stream?
  731. # [19:57] <danbeam> Michael: the storage method has nothing to do with it, it's physical constraints on my upload speed
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  733. # [19:58] <danbeam> Michael: I'm not gonna wait 5 years to able to upload all of my music
  734. # [19:58] <Michael> Are you on dialup?
  735. # [19:58] * Parts: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  736. # [19:58] <danbeam> Michael: to be able to listen to my music after I've uploaded it**
  737. # [19:58] * Parts: ericam (~ericam@c-107-2-185-36.hsd1.co.comcast.net) ("Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/")
  738. # [19:58] <jetienne> danbeam: what is the speed of your upload link ?
  739. # [19:58] <vier> hehe, suck everyone who doesnt have uni internet :D
  740. # [19:58] <danbeam> jetienne: good, ;)
  741. # [19:59] <danbeam> jetienne: at work it's like > DS3
  742. # [19:59] <danbeam> jetienne: but I don't wanna bring all my music to work, :P
  743. # [19:59] <danbeam> jetienne: at home my up is 2mpbs
  744. # [19:59] <jetienne> danbeam: :)
  745. # [19:59] <danbeam> jetienne: 2mbps**
  746. # [19:59] <danbeam> jetienne: 240 KB/s
  747. # [19:59] <danbeam> jetienne: but I QoS it
  748. # [20:00] <danbeam> jetienne: so only 100 KB/s left
  749. # [20:00] <danbeam> jetienne: and that's if I don't wanna use the rest of it on like anything and am uploading not stop forever
  750. # [20:01] <danbeam> jetienne: Google should do a local md5 on my files and not make me retransmit if somebody else has already uploaded their copy, :P
  751. # [20:01] <Michael> How is 2mbps upload slow?
  752. # [20:01] <danbeam> Michael: it's not, but I have alot of music
  753. # [20:01] <danbeam> Michael: ALOT alot, ;)
  754. # [20:01] <vier> danbeam: sorry i swear you just said md5
  755. # [20:01] <Michael> IS IT LEGAL?
  756. # [20:01] * Joins: CrashTest_ (~pteglia@c-66-235-15-192.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net)
  757. # [20:01] <Michael> jk
  758. # [20:01] <danbeam> vier: I did
  759. # [20:01] <jetienne> danbeam: 100*86400/1024/1024 = 8.3... if im not wrong you can upload 8.3 gbyte/day
  760. # [20:01] <vier> danbeam: i am dissappoint
  761. # [20:01] <Michael> danbeam, How do you manage to listen to all of it?
  762. # [20:01] <danbeam> Michael: yes, it's totally legal to have a 2mbps internet, ;)
  763. # [20:02] <vier> danbeam: but i agree, hash the local content first would be good
  764. # [20:03] <danbeam> Michael: very patiently
  765. # [20:03] <danbeam> Michael: ;)
  766. # [20:03] <Michael> Sounds like you could get rid of a lot of it
  767. # [20:03] <Michael> Remember mirc witht he dcc xserv scripts?
  768. # [20:03] <danbeam> Michael: Sounds like I could get rid of a lot of you, :P
  769. # [20:03] <Michael> danbeam, That... doesn't make sense
  770. # [20:04] <danbeam> /ignore Michael ? jk <3
  771. # [20:04] <Michael> And was quite awkwardly weird
  772. # [20:04] <vier> who has an android phone?
  773. # [20:04] * danbeam does
  774. # [20:04] <danbeam> Michael: a majority of my music is backups for friends
  775. # [20:04] <Michael> I do
  776. # [20:04] <vier> danbeam: what kind? nexus?
  777. # [20:05] <danbeam> vier: Droid
  778. # [20:05] <Michael> danbeam, I don't want more details. I'm with FBI/InfraGard.
  779. # [20:05] <danbeam> vier: from Google I/O last year, ;)
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  781. # [20:05] <danbeam> Michael: oh lawd v&
  782. # [20:05] <vier> danbeam: ahh :) well im watching the live stream atm. anyway, how do you find it?
  783. # [20:05] <Michael> I was just joking around out of boredom but you turned out to be a weird dude.
  784. # [20:05] <vier> danbeam: have you also used iOS? give a comparison?
  785. # [20:06] <danbeam> vier: yes, I don't like iOS generally (nor most Mac stuff)
  786. # [20:06] <danbeam> vier: but maybe I haven't given it enough of a chance
  787. # [20:06] <shichuan> at least iOS has good battery life
  788. # [20:06] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-rgaietonybwjukkn) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  789. # [20:06] <vier> danbeam: favourite/best android features?
  790. # [20:06] <Michael> my droid will last all work day usually
  791. # [20:06] <danbeam> vier: Google services integration
  792. # [20:06] <shichuan> android phone can't last for more than 8 hours
  793. # [20:06] <vier> shichuan: yeh, its a downside of android, poor battery life
  794. # [20:06] <danbeam> Michael: psh, mine lasts a week
  795. # [20:07] <shichuan> ios can last a day
  796. # [20:07] <Michael> shichuan, depends on the usage
  797. # [20:07] <danbeam> maybe 3-4 days
  798. # [20:07] <Michael> danbeam, Sure it does
  799. # [20:07] <danbeam> depends on how you use it
  800. # [20:07] <shichuan> Michael: i spent a whole day to uninstall all the live stream and update
  801. # [20:07] <danbeam> turn of all server updates, turn off GPS, don't use or look for Wifi
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  803. # [20:07] <danbeam> (unless you're actually using those features)
  804. # [20:07] <shichuan> Michael: and it finally can last till i got home
  805. # [20:07] <danbeam> don't sync accounts
  806. # [20:07] <danbeam> don't stay on twitter all the time, :P
  807. # [20:07] <Michael> shichuan, Advanced Taskiller works well for me
  808. # [20:07] <vier> lol, sounds like you cut off a bit of functionality there
  809. # [20:08] <danbeam> and it'll last you a long time
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  811. # [20:08] <danbeam> Michael: yeah, that app is good too
  812. # [20:08] <Michael> danbeam, I could just turn it off too
  813. # [20:08] <shichuan> i already cut down a lot usage
  814. # [20:08] <Michael> but what's the fun in that?
  815. # [20:08] <shichuan> i dont even dare to listen to mp3 when outside
  816. # [20:08] <danbeam> Michael: you can still sync at will
  817. # [20:08] <Michael> I sync from exchange and gmail and it still lasts me from like 8am to 5pm
  818. # [20:08] <shichuan> i am waiting for htc update
  819. # [20:08] <danbeam> vier: I can use Google Voice, Mail, and Maps from my phone
  820. # [20:08] <danbeam> vier: and that's HUGE
  821. # [20:08] * nbari is now known as nbari|away
  822. # [20:09] <Michael> Also T-Mobile has come out with updates to save battery and they seem to work
  823. # [20:09] <shichuan> heard new android has battery improvement
  824. # [20:09] <vier> danbeam: cool, with ios, i cant tell how good they are, but yeh, integration is a huge plus on my checklist
  825. # [20:09] <shichuan> but the htc update takes years
  826. # [20:09] <Michael> This is the myTouch 4G - whatever model that is
  827. # [20:09] <danbeam> vier: it's a downside of iPhone that you can't make FUCKING CALLS
  828. # [20:09] <danbeam> vier: (depending mainly on service provider, obviously, but you were locked to 1 for years until now)
  829. # [20:09] <vier> danbeam: lol? it was a small problem a while ago, fixed now
  830. # [20:10] <danbeam> vier: tell that to everybody sitting around me that have no fucking service whatsoever
  831. # [20:10] <danbeam> vier: (not the deathgrip's fault)
  832. # [20:10] <vier> haha, ok
  833. # [20:10] <shichuan> iphone is decent, i mean they are the first smartphone
  834. # [20:10] <danbeam> vier: so definitely don't get AT&T
  835. # [20:10] <danbeam> shichuan: they're not the first smart phone
  836. # [20:10] <shichuan> i dont see innovation in android
  837. # [20:11] <vier> danbeam: definitely wont - im in Australia with no AT&T :P
  838. # [20:11] <danbeam> shichuan: they're the first *shiny* smart phone
  839. # [20:11] <shichuan> what is something android done that changed our life?
  840. # [20:11] <shichuan> android is a copycat
  841. # [20:11] <danbeam> shichuan: made me buy a smart phone
  842. # [20:11] <vier> shichuan: where do you see innovation in the iphone/
  843. # [20:11] <danbeam> shichuan: because fuck iPhone
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  845. # [20:11] <danbeam> shichuan: inb4 "shiny, glorious UI, long battery life"
  846. # [20:12] <shichuan> iphone made everything an app
  847. # [20:12] <shichuan> tat's someting new
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  849. # [20:12] <BrianBlakely> Folders are nice :D
  850. # [20:12] <Michael> I'll get an iPhone when they give them to us for free.
  851. # [20:12] <danbeam> shichuan: how bout ... an operating system? they have these things called apps that have been around a little bit longer...
  852. # [20:12] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  853. # [20:12] <vier> shichuan: that is not new, thats how all mobile phones have worked
  854. # [20:12] <skyler_brungardt> Flame War! Go!
  855. # [20:12] <vier> before smartphones
  856. # [20:13] <Michael> paul_irish, We just lost one of our best web devs to you guys :)
  857. # [20:13] <skyler_brungardt> Fight fight fight!
  858. # [20:13] <skyler_brungardt> To the death!
  859. # [20:13] <vier> yeh, soz probs my fault skyler_brungardt :P i asked
  860. # [20:13] <Michael> He started at Youtube last Monday
  861. # [20:13] <Michael> Well all our web devs are awesome, but he was exceptional to that even
  862. # [20:14] <skyler_brungardt> Duel! With swords! No--smartphones! Smartphone duel to the DEATH!
  863. # [20:14] <danbeam> skyler_brungardt: obviously it's based on opinion, but my opinion's right ™
  864. # [20:14] * Joins: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
  865. # [20:14] <shichuan> i dont work for iphone, i have both, bottom line is iphone is just easier to use
  866. # [20:14] <vier> my iphone has a broken LCD - so its usefull as a paperweight atm
  867. # [20:14] <shichuan> i dont have to learn to use iphone
  868. # [20:15] <skyler_brungardt> Round 1! Ding ding!
  869. # [20:15] <danbeam> shichuan: when the world doesn't have to learn they all stay dumb, ;)
  870. # [20:15] <vier> shichuan: okay, have you used android?
  871. # [20:15] <shichuan> i used android
  872. # [20:15] <shichuan> i am still using android
  873. # [20:15] <shichuan> i am not working for iphone, so i wont defend iphone
  874. # [20:15] * tw2113 bets paul_irish secretly rocks the iphone
  875. # [20:15] <shichuan> if someone dislike it, i am fine
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  877. # [20:16] <vier> so you know that android you just click a button to open an app..? how much learning is involved...
  878. # [20:16] <vier> not that i care, as a dev
  879. # [20:16] <shichuan> hard to search contact
  880. # [20:16] <danbeam> vier: the whole UI of Android requires learning
  881. # [20:17] <danbeam> vier: there are 4 buttons -- it's rough
  882. # [20:17] <Michael> <3 genius button
  883. # [20:17] <vier> but, surely is is just like learning the iOS from scratch
  884. # [20:18] <vier> Michael: your commenting on iphone's 1 button? i actually quite dislike that
  885. # [20:18] <Michael> No the 4th button on T-Mobile's droid phones
  886. # [20:18] <danbeam> http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/ <-- this is pretty easy to use as well
  887. # [20:19] <Michael> vier, It links to my headset. I just push my headset and say "Call wifey" or "Send email to Blah Hey man! Running late. Be there soon"
  888. # [20:19] <shichuan> iphone is like love at first sight, the moment you holding it, it feels like you have met it for years
  889. # [20:19] <Michael> very convenient
  890. # [20:19] <shichuan> can android give you the same feeling? no
  891. # [20:19] <danbeam> shichuan: did for me
  892. # [20:19] <Michael> I don't generally get emotional over gadgets
  893. # [20:19] <danbeam> shichuan: but I'm a developer and a linux nerd
  894. # [20:19] <vier> Michael: sounds cool
  895. # [20:19] <Michael> it is
  896. # [20:19] <danbeam> shichuan: and want my phone to be ... a phone
  897. # [20:19] <Michael> And their swype keyboard is a huge reason I won't go to the iphone
  898. # [20:20] <vier> shichuan: i probably could
  899. # [20:20] <Michael> http://gizmodo.com/5571609/swype-is-developing-an-app-for-iphone-but-will-apple-allow-it
  900. # [20:20] * Joins: adamnbowen (~adamnbowe@c-98-220-233-251.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
  901. # [20:20] <Michael> Swype is the best way to use your keyboard currently, hands down
  902. # [20:20] <Michael> ANd iphone doesn't have it
  903. # [20:20] <danbeam> Michael: oh yeah, you bring up another point -- Apple are huge dicks
  904. # [20:20] <vier> i would really like NFC to make me able to leave my bank card & wallet at home
  905. # [20:20] <Michael> danbeam, I didn't bring up that point at all. Steve Jobs is on our board of directors.
  906. # [20:20] <danbeam> Michael: I'd have to fucking jailbreak my iPhone to be able to do anything fun on it
  907. # [20:20] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  908. # [20:20] <danbeam> Michael: Steve Jobs is a smart dick
  909. # [20:20] <vier> i mean, to make NFC popular enough that i can*
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  913. # [20:21] <Michael> When I see NFC I think Philadelphia Eagles
  914. # [20:21] <Jon47> when apple comes out with voice to text for all apps that swype keyboard won't look so awesome anymore
  915. # [20:22] <Jon47> danbeam - fortunately jail breaking an iphone is about as easy as visiting a webpage
  916. # [20:23] <danbeam> Jon47: why would I get a phone to break it?
  917. # [20:23] <danbeam> Jon47: that's like saying "Here's my new car! Now I'm gonna change the engine!"
  918. # [20:23] <Jon47> heh, not really
  919. # [20:23] <shichuan> jail break is indeed a problem
  920. # [20:23] <Jon47> more like .. uh I don't know much about cars
  921. # [20:23] <shichuan> terrible
  922. # [20:24] <Jon47> it's like buying a CPU then overclocking it
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  924. # [20:24] <danbeam> shichuan: Apple is so concentrated on removing things for the sake of simplicity and IP protection they cut down alot of what you can do, and that's why I have issues with Apple
  925. # [20:25] <danbeam> shichuan: they're phone is OK, but the baggage it carries about not picking a good service provider, not allowing apps I want, and just being OVER simplified makes me rage
  926. # [20:25] <danbeam> </rant>
  927. # [20:26] <shichuan> you means most apps are paid?
  928. # [20:26] * AstroWolf is now known as Jezon
  929. # [20:26] <shichuan> yea, i hate paying money also
  930. # [20:26] <vier> most apps are just kicked off apples stores lol
  931. # [20:27] <danbeam> ^^ this
  932. # [20:27] <vier> danbeam: google music beta only available in US :'(
  933. # [20:27] <danbeam> vier: rough
  934. # [20:27] <danbeam> shichuan: many apps are just banned for no good reason
  935. # [20:28] <vier> so ive decided, im moving to US!
  936. # [20:28] <danbeam> vier: heh
  937. # [20:28] <vier> lol jokes
  938. # [20:28] <danbeam> vier: use Tor
  939. # [20:28] <vier> thats a terrible idea
  940. # [20:28] <vier> not to your idea...
  941. # [20:28] <vier> except it would be rather slow to upload >.<
  942. # [20:28] <danbeam> vier: heh
  943. # [20:29] <shichuan> google offers free music download in google china
  944. # [20:29] * nbari|away is now known as nbari
  945. # [20:29] <shichuan> all pirated, but doesnt work outside china also
  946. # [20:29] * Joins: zatan (~zatan@5ad2898a.bb.sky.com)
  947. # [20:29] <vier> danbeam: also, they are banned for good reasons! like competing with apple's products!
  948. # [20:29] <vier> oh wait a minute...
  949. # [20:29] <shichuan> so they have a lot geo restrictions
  950. # [20:31] * Joins: simplicity- (~simpli@unaffiliated/simplicity-)
  951. # [20:31] <vier> when do people think the next nexus will be?
  952. # [20:31] <danbeam> vier: yes
  953. # [20:31] <danbeam> vier: (to competition)
  954. # [20:32] * Quits: exp (~zAyghip8@93-96-170-70.zone4.bethere.co.uk) (Quit: xylophone buggery)
  955. # [20:32] <vier> i want a new phone, but preferably google's nexus line (nexus s isnt *that* great with the plastic back)
  956. # [20:33] <vier> it would be sick if it was LG's pyramid phone
  957. # [20:34] * Quits: charlesbdudley (~charlesbd@office1.klout.com) (Quit: charlesbdudley)
  958. # [20:35] <vier> anyone know when webkit/chrome will support <datalist>?
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  963. # [20:39] <vier> :D ice cream sandwich has the holographic interface :D
  964. # [20:39] <vier> definitely nexus s then i guess
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  967. # [20:41] <danbeam> vier: holographic?
  968. # [20:41] * nbari is now known as nbari|away
  969. # [20:41] <vier> the holographic-look from honeycomb, not real holographic :P sorry
  970. # [20:41] <vier> hmm... now i want technology to give me holograms..
  971. # [20:41] <danbeam> vier: ah
  972. # [20:41] <danbeam> vier: yeah
  973. # [20:42] <vier> that would be sick
  974. # [20:42] <danbeam> vier: http://gl.ict.usc.edu/Research/3DDisplay/ <-- like this?
  975. # [20:42] <vier> looks pretty cool
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  980. # [20:44] <vier> is it only monochrome or something?
  981. # [20:52] <Michael> I like how they made it the same color as the projections in Star Wars
  982. # [20:53] <Michael> (the 3D teleconferencing
  983. # [20:58] * CrashTest_ is now known as CrashDiet_
  984. # [21:02] <BrianBlakely> I wonder, will NaCl be able to do gaming better than Canvas?
  985. # [21:03] <BrianBlakely> Envisioning entire Chrome apps coded in C here… and it's scary
  986. # [21:04] * Quits: Sliker (~ponies@87.115.154.134) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  987. # [21:05] <Michael> ADOBE MOLEHILL
  988. # [21:05] * Quits: BLOB0 (~blobo@dsl-olubrasgw1-ff2cc100-233.dhcp.inet.fi) (Quit: tits)
  989. # [21:06] * Quits: djancak (~a@c-71-207-220-111.hsd1.al.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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  993. # [21:10] <shichuan> Michael: that's cool, but the sad thing is there is always a gap between cutting edge tech and open standard
  994. # [21:11] <Michael> shichuan: I look at it like this - People still use Flash. Soon Flash Player will have 3D acceleration
  995. # [21:11] <Michael> And it's supported in almost every browser. More than WeBGL
  996. # [21:12] <Michael> I advocate webgl but understand that Adobe has an edge with their upcoming advancements
  997. # [21:12] <shichuan> i think flash will change direction, cos it's losing market share in website, so will focus on more cutting edge tech like games
  998. # [21:13] <Michael> Adobe is also embracing HTML5
  999. # [21:13] <shichuan> adobe is not bad, they are quite open minded
  1000. # [21:13] <shichuan> hope they can create something to speed up canvas work
  1001. # [21:14] <Michael> I was really impressed with the conference I went to
  1002. # [21:14] * Joins: figital (~figital@pool-173-65-171-249.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)
  1003. # [21:14] <Michael> Very down to earth and open minded people
  1004. # [21:15] <Michael> shuchuan: They are.
  1005. # [21:15] <Michael> I can't talk about it but they are.
  1006. # [21:15] <Michael> shichuan sorry
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  1011. # [21:16] <shichuan> yes, a lot flash guys are very down to earth, quite low profile
  1012. # [21:16] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert.se@84-255-198-197.static.t-2.net)
  1013. # [21:16] <shichuan> hope they can talk more and share more
  1014. # [21:16] <Michael> I mean the Adobe spokespeople
  1015. # [21:16] <Michael> Or is that who you mean?
  1016. # [21:16] <shichuan> i mean in general
  1017. # [21:16] <Michael> ah ok
  1018. # [21:16] <shichuan> they are quite innovative
  1019. # [21:17] <Michael> yes
  1020. # [21:17] * Joins: Chat4987 (ulnjjt@app5.chatmosphere.org)
  1021. # [21:17] <shichuan> and a lot of things about actionscript is identical to canvas
  1022. # [21:17] <shichuan> so it's very easy to port over
  1023. # [21:17] <Chat4987> Howdy.
  1024. # [21:18] <Chat4987> Just downloaded an IRC client for BlackBerry.
  1025. # [21:18] <Michael> shichuan, It'd be awesome to see a flash type ide that exported to canvas instead of swf wouldn't it
  1026. # [21:18] <Michael> Chat4987, nice
  1027. # [21:18] <Chat4987> Seems to be working.
  1028. # [21:18] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up.)
  1029. # [21:18] <Michael> Yes it does.
  1030. # [21:18] <skyler_brungardt> Michael: That would be wicked.
  1031. # [21:18] <Chat4987> Heck, I'll throw question out whilst here.
  1032. # [21:18] <shichuan> Michael, i am sure adobe will do something about it, maybe it's part of their plan already
  1033. # [21:19] <Michael> Maybe they'll oblige us :D
  1034. # [21:19] <BrianBlakely> Adobe should come out with a browser, and throw a whole bunch of Flash-esque stuff into it
  1035. # [21:19] <BrianBlakely> -adobe-awesome-stuff: cool;
  1036. # [21:19] <BrianBlakely> That kind of thing
  1037. # [21:19] <Michael> They have a browser-cam type service too
  1038. # [21:19] <Chat4987> Is there an HTML5 control for "frame capture"?
  1039. # [21:20] <Michael> https://browserlab.adobe.com/en-us/index.html and it's free
  1040. # [21:20] <Michael> Just can't see internal sites
  1041. # [21:20] <skyler_brungardt> BrianBlakely: Please, no more browsers
  1042. # [21:20] <shichuan> if they can create a browser that revolutionize page refresh and deep url linking, that will be cool
  1043. # [21:20] <Chat4987> I mean something akin to screencapture, but for a video.
  1044. # [21:20] <shichuan> could end the hash-tag url war
  1045. # [21:20] <Michael> I think you'll be very impressed with Adobe in the next 12 months
  1046. # [21:21] <Michael> Just based on what I saw... it was good stuff
  1047. # [21:21] <Chat4987> (b) still testing stuff...
  1048. # [21:22] * Quits: Chat4987 (ulnjjt@app5.chatmosphere.org) (Quit: Chatmosphere for iPhone & Blackberry)
  1049. # [21:23] <BrianBlakely> skyler_brungardt: Open standards mean that you can support hundreds of platforms.
  1050. # [21:24] <BrianBlakely> skyler_brungardt: All-in-all, it would be another warrior in the fight against IE
  1051. # [21:24] * Joins: brentd (~brentd@69-10-208-35.rainierconnect.com)
  1052. # [21:24] <skyler_brungardt> BrianBlakely: Shame how so few browsers actually adhere to them.
  1053. # [21:25] * Joins: djancak (~a@c-71-207-220-111.hsd1.al.comcast.net)
  1054. # [21:25] <skyler_brungardt> BrianBlakely: And that doesn't even address the allowance for interpretation in the specs.
  1055. # [21:25] <BrianBlakely> skyler_brungardt: My apps typically work identically in everything but IE. Now it's all about which platforms *perform* best
  1056. # [21:26] * Joins: aberry (~chatzilla@cn-sfo1-natout.cnet.com)
  1057. # [21:27] <skyler_brungardt> BrianBlakely: That discounts some of the coolest stuff CSS3 can do with transforms. Even FF and Chrome can't do what Safari can.
  1058. # [21:28] * foca_ is now known as foca
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  1066. # [21:34] <BrianBlakely> skyler_brungardt: Yeah, Safari has been ahead in the CSS realm for a while now. But that should be rectified next month.
  1067. # [21:35] * Joins: dcadenas (~dcadenas@r186-48-218-46.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)
  1068. # [21:36] <skyler_brungardt> Oh? Someone's finally going to match Apple in the CSS realm?
  1069. # [21:37] * Parts: shichuan (~Shi_Chuan@cm182.eta124.maxonline.com.sg)
  1070. # [21:37] <BrianBlakely> skyler_brungardt: As far as 3D CSS goes, yeah, Chrome 12 and FF5 are supposed to land with this feature
  1071. # [21:38] <skyler_brungardt> Word. Now we need Opera and IE9 to play catch-up.
  1072. # [21:38] * Joins: kobel (~daniel@dslb-094-216-109-136.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  1073. # [21:38] <BrianBlakely> skyler_brungardt: Yeah… I wouldn't hold my breath for that...
  1074. # [21:39] <BrianBlakely> Later y'all
  1075. # [21:39] * Quits: BrianBlakely (~Adium@out.dentsuamerica.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1076. # [21:39] <kobel> does anybody know why the audio sometimes has a src attribute and sometimes has source children?
  1077. # [21:39] * Joins: uf0_work (40d2c7e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.210.199.231)
  1078. # [21:40] <uf0_work> howdy
  1079. # [21:40] <Ms2ger> src for when you only have one version, source when you have more
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  1081. # [21:40] * psynaptic|away is now known as psynaptic
  1082. # [21:41] <kobel> ms2ger: alright, you mean different browser support different versions?
  1083. # [21:41] <Ms2ger> Or desktop/mobile
  1084. # [21:41] <skyler_brungardt> Both
  1085. # [21:41] * Joins: Sliker (~ponies@87.115.154.134)
  1086. # [21:42] <kobel> I see, is there a type that is supported by all browsers?
  1087. # [21:42] <skyler_brungardt> Heh. Nope.
  1088. # [21:42] <skyler_brungardt> Flash.
  1089. # [21:43] <kobel> lol
  1090. # [21:43] * Joins: gniourf_gniourf (~Gniourf@vil69-1-82-67-51-185.fbx.proxad.net)
  1091. # [21:43] <kobel> thank you!
  1092. # [21:44] * Joins: _jdalton (~johndavid@cpe-71-72-243-195.insight.res.rr.com)
  1093. # [21:44] <skyler_brungardt> Np. Enjoy. :-)
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  1095. # [21:46] <uf0_work> ok so some questions about the property
  1096. # [21:46] <uf0_work> text-overflow
  1097. # [21:46] <uf0_work> I think as of now.. the only options to text-overflow
  1098. # [21:46] <uf0_work> are either right or left
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  1100. # [21:46] <uf0_work> are browsers thinking about a height limit
  1101. # [21:47] <skyler_brungardt> Nope.
  1102. # [21:47] <uf0_work> versus just width?
  1103. # [21:47] <skyler_brungardt> https://developer.mozilla.org/En/CSS/Text-overflow
  1104. # [21:47] <skyler_brungardt> Not about width, direction, or height.
  1105. # [21:47] * Joins: jamund (~jamund@70.99.191.202)
  1106. # [21:47] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: what are you noping to specifically
  1107. # [21:47] <uf0_work> and firefox is the btw the only browser that doesn't support it
  1108. # [21:47] <skyler_brungardt> text-overflow property is about how to show text that runs outside of a container.
  1109. # [21:48] <uf0_work> I see..
  1110. # [21:48] <skyler_brungardt> Browser support isn't what I'm referencing here; the MDC has good docs.
  1111. # [21:48] <uf0_work> gotcha
  1112. # [21:48] <skyler_brungardt> The options for text-overflow are "ellipsis" and "clip"
  1113. # [21:48] <skyler_brungardt> Examples in that link
  1114. # [21:49] <skyler_brungardt> But you might be thinking about the "direction" value
  1115. # [21:49] <Ms2ger> Work is ongoing on that, fwiw
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  1117. # [21:49] * CrashDiet_ is now known as CrashTest_
  1118. # [21:49] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: Yea I understand it
  1119. # [21:49] <uf0_work> but just wondering if they're ever thinking about
  1120. # [21:49] <uf0_work> height overflow
  1121. # [21:50] <skyler_brungardt> The direction property is "ltr", "rtl", and inherit only.
  1122. # [21:50] <uf0_work> or character limit ellipsis
  1123. # [21:50] <uf0_work> that would be really nice
  1124. # [21:50] <skyler_brungardt> Used for languages that don't necessarily flow from the left, link English.
  1125. # [21:50] <uf0_work> versus just running outside container
  1126. # [21:51] <uf0_work> in css purely
  1127. # [21:51] <skyler_brungardt> There's overflow-y
  1128. # [21:51] <skyler_brungardt> And overflow-x
  1129. # [21:51] <uf0_work> does text-overflow apply to
  1130. # [21:51] <uf0_work> overflow-y?
  1131. # [21:51] <uf0_work> I don't think so
  1132. # [21:51] <skyler_brungardt> They can work in conjunction
  1133. # [21:51] <uf0_work> I've tried
  1134. # [21:51] <uf0_work> hmmm
  1135. # [21:51] <skyler_brungardt> But do different things
  1136. # [21:52] <skyler_brungardt> If, for example, overflow is set to hidden
  1137. # [21:53] <skyler_brungardt> text-overflow could render an ellipsis
  1138. # [21:53] <uf0_work> right but that would only work horizontally not vertically
  1139. # [21:54] <uf0_work> I might just try it again maybe i'm wrong
  1140. # [21:55] <skyler_brungardt> I wouldn't rely upon it.
  1141. # [21:57] <skyler_brungardt> uf0_work: http://jsfiddle.net/6JHwe/
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  1144. # [21:58] <uf0_work> yea that works with 1 line only
  1145. # [21:58] <uf0_work> ie: white-space: nowrap;
  1146. # [21:59] <uf0_work> what if we want to do 2 or 3 lines
  1147. # [21:59] <uf0_work> ?
  1148. # [21:59] <kobel> what is the event the gets dispatched as soon as an audiofile is loaded?
  1149. # [21:59] <skyler_brungardt> You're assumed to either size your box appropriately to the content in it, which will auto-wrap, or if wrapping isn't assumed, you might try using individual <p> tags for each line.
  1150. # [22:00] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: can you provide example?
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  1153. # [22:01] <uf0_work> oh wait multiple P tags isn't sexy at all though
  1154. # [22:01] * Joins: jdalton (~johndavid@cpe-71-72-243-195.insight.res.rr.com)
  1155. # [22:01] <skyler_brungardt> uf0_work: http://jsfiddle.net/6JHwe/ Updated.
  1156. # [22:01] <skyler_brungardt> Not sexy, but functional.
  1157. # [22:02] <uf0_work> i don't see any difference
  1158. # [22:02] <uf0_work> it's still one line
  1159. # [22:03] <skyler_brungardt> Hm. I added two more <p> tags.
  1160. # [22:03] <skyler_brungardt> You could try the same.
  1161. # [22:03] <skyler_brungardt> Fucntional, just requires a <p> tag for each line.
  1162. # [22:04] <uf0_work> yea I see what you mean
  1163. # [22:04] <uf0_work> but that isn't a good solution
  1164. # [22:04] <skyler_brungardt> kobel: In FF at least, it looks like MozAudioAvailable is called.
  1165. # [22:04] <uf0_work> which is why they should add something to their spec for this
  1166. # [22:04] <skyler_brungardt> kobel: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Introducing_the_Audio_API_Extension
  1167. # [22:05] <uf0_work> editorially if an editor is making an updating
  1168. # [22:05] <uf0_work> he/she isn't going to start adding multiple P tags
  1169. # [22:05] <skyler_brungardt> kobel: Though, I'd probably suggest pre-caching before specific browsers began streaming
  1170. # [22:05] <skyler_brungardt> Load the file, and catch when it's finished buffering
  1171. # [22:05] <uf0_work> I think an extra character limit option
  1172. # [22:05] <uf0_work> would be a great addition
  1173. # [22:05] <skyler_brungardt> Then stream away regardless of browser event
  1174. # [22:05] <skyler_brungardt> uf0_work: Agreed.
  1175. # [22:06] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: word
  1176. # [22:06] <skyler_brungardt> uf0_work: It's like the W3C comes up with some great "half-ideas".
  1177. # [22:06] <kobel> skyler_brungardt: how would I pre-cash a file?
  1178. # [22:07] <uf0_work> Ms2ger: is this doable?
  1179. # [22:07] <uf0_work> i meant from your end not mine
  1180. # [22:07] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: yea true indeed
  1181. # [22:08] <Ms2ger> Er, is what doable?
  1182. # [22:08] <uf0_work> text-overflow
  1183. # [22:08] <skyler_brungardt> kobel: You might look at these: http://jquery.malsup.com/media/ and http://www.jplayer.org/
  1184. # [22:08] <uf0_work> having a character limit option
  1185. # [22:08] <uf0_work> since it only works with one line
  1186. # [22:08] <uf0_work> ie: white-space: nowrap
  1187. # [22:08] <Ms2ger> I only know there are patches to add support in Gecko
  1188. # [22:09] <kobel> yeh the old embed method seems to be the better solution
  1189. # [22:09] <uf0_work> would be nice to have something like {text-overflow: ellipsis; character-limit: 32;}
  1190. # [22:09] <skyler_brungardt> kobel: jplayer looks pretty tight.
  1191. # [22:09] <Ms2ger> width: 32ch?
  1192. # [22:09] <uf0_work> Ms2ger: i'm not referring to Gecko support
  1193. # [22:10] * Joins: jblanche (~jblanche@ivr94-10-88-177-169-11.fbx.proxad.net)
  1194. # [22:10] <skyler_brungardt> uf0_work: That would be awful for accessibility, though.
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  1197. # [22:11] <Ms2ger> I was :)
  1198. # [22:11] <skyler_brungardt> uf0_work: Think about a link, for example, limited by character width.
  1199. # [22:11] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: i can't tell you how many times clients have asked me that a box should be a certain height
  1200. # [22:11] <uf0_work> and that text can't overflow
  1201. # [22:12] <uf0_work> my solution is
  1202. # [22:12] <uf0_work> overflow: hidden;
  1203. # [22:12] <uf0_work> i just want the option to add an ellipsis
  1204. # [22:12] <skyler_brungardt> When blind users access the page, they'll pull up a list of links independent from the page, using screen reader tech.
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  1206. # [22:12] <uf0_work> versus it being clipped
  1207. # [22:12] <skyler_brungardt> Which flies in the face of layout or using ellipses.
  1208. # [22:12] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: i get your point
  1209. # [22:13] <uf0_work> but still, you can't tell me this would be more useful than not
  1210. # [22:13] <skyler_brungardt> I'd recommend trying to educate the clients on the risk of relying upon those layouts.
  1211. # [22:13] <skyler_brungardt> (Namely, discrimination and bad PR.)
  1212. # [22:14] * Joins: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@unaffiliated/kaosoft)
  1213. # [22:14] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: so in that case, instead of character-limit
  1214. # [22:14] <uf0_work> something else
  1215. # [22:14] <uf0_work> very similar to text-overflow
  1216. # [22:15] <uf0_work> but support for multiple lines
  1217. # [22:15] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.91.218) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  1218. # [22:15] <uf0_work> maybe text-overflow-multiple: 4; ?
  1219. # [22:15] <uf0_work> what you feel about that
  1220. # [22:15] <uf0_work> accessibility won't be an issue there
  1221. # [22:16] <skyler_brungardt> Well...sort of still is.
  1222. # [22:16] <uf0_work> it's not character limiting
  1223. # [22:16] <skyler_brungardt> Because the text is in the markup.
  1224. # [22:16] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: so that means you're against text-overflow in general?
  1225. # [22:16] <skyler_brungardt> So it's still available to anyone who's not using styles.
  1226. # [22:16] <skyler_brungardt> No, not necessarily.
  1227. # [22:16] <skyler_brungardt> I'm for accessibility.
  1228. # [22:16] <uf0_work> ......
  1229. # [22:17] <skyler_brungardt> I'd say that the best way to handle it would be some JS or server-side code, like PHP.
  1230. # [22:17] <skyler_brungardt> Detect a certain number of characters, and modify the dom accordingly.
  1231. # [22:17] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: that's the way I always do it
  1232. # [22:17] <uf0_work> php or JS
  1233. # [22:17] <uf0_work> i'm thinking this is something that should be html or css controlled
  1234. # [22:17] <uf0_work> if not CSS
  1235. # [22:17] <skyler_brungardt> HTML controlled would be a great solution.
  1236. # [22:17] <snover> wait wat?
  1237. # [22:17] <skyler_brungardt> Not CSS.
  1238. # [22:18] * Quits: kobel (~daniel@dslb-094-216-109-136.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Quit: kobel)
  1239. # [22:18] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: ok we agree on that
  1240. # [22:18] * Quits: elfgoh (~Adium@adsl145.dyn208.pacific.net.sg) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1241. # [22:18] <snover> manually truncating text on the server using an ellipsis character is better for a11y than using text-overflow: ellipsis? what am I missing here?
  1242. # [22:18] * Joins: djancak (~a@c-71-207-220-111.hsd1.al.comcast.net)
  1243. # [22:18] <uf0_work> snover: :) no no no.
  1244. # [22:19] <uf0_work> we're debating the following
  1245. # [22:19] <uf0_work> text-overflow only supports 1 line of text
  1246. # [22:19] <uf0_work> skyler and I are going back/forth on the best way
  1247. # [22:20] <uf0_work> to support multiple lines
  1248. # [22:20] <uf0_work> or having a character limit
  1249. # [22:20] <skyler_brungardt> A global HTML attribute, like "maxchar", would be wicked awesome.
  1250. # [22:20] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: that would be GENIUS.
  1251. # [22:20] <uf0_work> they need to do that like ASAP
  1252. # [22:20] <skyler_brungardt> <p maxchar=32>Blah blah blah.</p>
  1253. # [22:20] * Joins: bentruyman (~bentruyma@li159-104.members.linode.com)
  1254. # [22:20] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: thinking about it now
  1255. # [22:20] <skyler_brungardt> For CMS, yes.
  1256. # [22:20] <uf0_work> that's is the greatest solution
  1257. # [22:21] <uf0_work> Ms2ger: get to it!!
  1258. # [22:23] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  1259. # [22:23] <uf0_work> tw2113: welcome
  1260. # [22:23] <uf0_work> the following is genius
  1261. # [22:23] <skyler_brungardt> uf0_work: I'm still not sold that this isn't best handled serverside.
  1262. # [22:23] <uf0_work> <p maxchar=32>Blah blah blah.</p>
  1263. # [22:23] <tw2113> yo
  1264. # [22:23] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: I am.
  1265. # [22:23] <uf0_work> :)
  1266. # [22:24] <uf0_work> i will forever now promote this until it gets popular
  1267. # [22:24] <skyler_brungardt> Lol
  1268. # [22:24] <uf0_work> and implemented
  1269. # [22:24] <skyler_brungardt> Ok
  1270. # [22:24] <skyler_brungardt> I'm behind you on it for the flexibility, if nothing else
  1271. # [22:24] <skyler_brungardt> However, if we think about the theory behind the situations which would require this
  1272. # [22:24] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: I will live with the fact that I'm discriminating
  1273. # [22:24] <skyler_brungardt> The content would be generated dynamically, yes?
  1274. # [22:25] <uf0_work> yea of course
  1275. # [22:25] <snover> you do realise
  1276. # [22:25] <uf0_work> an editor would put 100 characters
  1277. # [22:25] <snover> that the “doesn’t work with multiple lines” is an implementation defect
  1278. # [22:25] <uf0_work> and it'll cap at 32
  1279. # [22:25] <danbeam> uf0_work: maxchar doesn't matter ... it's lines you care about
  1280. # [22:25] <snover> and the spec does specify that multiple lines should get an ellipsis
  1281. # [22:25] <snover> right?
  1282. # [22:25] <skyler_brungardt> So if the element has a maxchar limit, why are we rendering that extra markup?
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  1284. # [22:25] <uf0_work> danbeam: you're completely right
  1285. # [22:25] <uf0_work> but if there's no CSS solution
  1286. # [22:25] <danbeam> uf0_work: http://danbeam.org/ellipsis/yui/
  1287. # [22:25] <uf0_work> then I'd do a html
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  1289. # [22:26] <danbeam> uf0_work: I've thought about this a big
  1290. # [22:26] <uf0_work> i did say
  1291. # [22:26] <danbeam> uf0_work: bit*
  1292. # [22:26] <snover> uf0_work skyler_brungardt
  1293. # [22:26] <uf0_work> text-oveflow-lines: 3;
  1294. # [22:26] <snover> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-ui/#text-overflow
  1295. # [22:26] <uf0_work> something like that
  1296. # [22:26] <danbeam> uf0_work: yes, that's a good idea
  1297. # [22:26] <uf0_work> but an html solution would be great I think as well
  1298. # [22:26] <uf0_work> but either or I don't mind
  1299. # [22:26] <danbeam> uf0_work: it's not really all that possible currently without some serious hacks
  1300. # [22:26] <uf0_work> we just need something!
  1301. # [22:27] <skyler_brungardt> snover: Yes, but no browser implemented it that way.
  1302. # [22:27] <danbeam> skyler_brungardt: wait, wut?
  1303. # [22:27] <uf0_work> danbeam: I haven't used hacks, I pretty much used PHP and set a character limit or the infamous wordpress way
  1304. # [22:27] <uf0_work> text-excerpt
  1305. # [22:27] <uf0_work> tw2113: can correct me on that
  1306. # [22:27] <danbeam> skyler_brungardt: all browsers that implemented text-overflow: ellipsis; did it correct
  1307. # [22:27] <snover> skyler_brungardt: luckily, implementation defects are implementation defects
  1308. # [22:27] <danbeam> skyler_brungardt: pretty much
  1309. # [22:27] <danbeam> skyler_brungardt: some don't use \u2026, though
  1310. # [22:27] <snover> and you don’t need to create a new *presentation* property in html to do it
  1311. # [22:28] <skyler_brungardt> danbeam: Nope - it's single line.
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  1313. # [22:28] <danbeam> skyler_brungardt: oh, for multiple lines
  1314. # [22:28] <danbeam> skyler_brungardt: nothing in the spec about that...
  1315. # [22:28] <uf0_work> danbeam: so how about a multiple lines CSS solution
  1316. # [22:28] <snover> http://zetafleet.com/i/4dc99f275c594.png chrome
  1317. # [22:28] <uf0_work> can it be done?
  1318. # [22:28] <tw2113> eh?
  1319. # [22:28] * Quits: dared (~dared@p50999198.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Verlassend)
  1320. # [22:28] <snover> danbeam: yes there is
  1321. # [22:28] * Quits: obert- (~obert@host198-207-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1322. # [22:28] <danbeam> snover: what'd I miss?
  1323. # [22:28] <skyler_brungardt> uf0_work: CSS really isn't the way to go here.
  1324. # [22:29] <uf0_work> skyler_brungardt: ok.
  1325. # [22:29] <snover> it’s a presentational property, css is *exactly* the way to go.
  1326. # [22:29] * Joins: obert- (~obert@host198-207-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
  1327. # [22:29] <uf0_work> snover: ok.
  1328. # [22:29] <uf0_work> lol
  1329. # [22:29] <tw2113> i confirm nothing
  1330. # [22:29] <skyler_brungardt> snover: CSS shouldn't be hiding content like that.
  1331. # [22:29] <snover> skyler_brungardt: guess we should get rid of overflow: hidden then
  1332. # [22:29] <snover> and text-indent since that can “hide” content too
  1333. # [22:29] <skyler_brungardt> snover: We're providing a different experience for users who don't rely upon sight.
  1334. # [22:30] <skyler_brungardt> No, they're useful, but not in this case. Each of those can be compensated for accessibility in other ways.
  1335. # [22:30] <uf0_work> tw2113: http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/wp_trim_excerpt
  1336. # [22:30] <danbeam> snover: lol
  1337. # [22:30] <snover> skyler_brungardt: ellipses are purely a visual presentational construct
  1338. # [22:30] <danbeam> ^^ this
  1339. # [22:30] <danbeam> skyler_brungardt: they don't change the text of the node itself...
  1340. # [22:30] <danbeam> just presentational like snover said
  1341. # [22:30] <uf0_work> danbeam: I must say I agree with this too
  1342. # [22:30] <skyler_brungardt> snover: Only if there's another way to see the same content. It's about user experience.
  1343. # [22:31] <snover> skyler_brungardt: what?
  1344. # [22:31] <snover> that doesn’t make sense yo
  1345. # [22:31] <danbeam> ^^ agreed
  1346. # [22:31] <skyler_brungardt> snover: Say, revealing the rest of the text on mouseover, for example.
  1347. # [22:31] <snover> the whole point of the ellipses is to say “hey visual browser, there is more content here but it’s too big for this space”
  1348. # [22:31] <danbeam> also, "high visibility" accessibilty stylesheet?
  1349. # [22:31] <uf0_work> snover: instead of saying that doesn't make sense
  1350. # [22:31] <snover> an aural browser does not have this problem
  1351. # [22:31] <uf0_work> and danbeam
  1352. # [22:31] <uf0_work> what CSS can we have to do multiple lines then
  1353. # [22:31] <snover> because there is no limit on the length of text that can be spoken
  1354. # [22:32] <uf0_work> i meant will it ever be added in future
  1355. # [22:32] <uf0_work> versus text-overflow one-liner
  1356. # [22:32] <danbeam> yeah, a screen reader wouldn't care about this unless you make them by changing the software to detect text-overflow on nodes (which sounds like a bad idea to me)
  1357. # [22:32] <skyler_brungardt> danbeam: Agreed
  1358. # [22:33] * Quits: Filar (~kamil@dfq191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  1359. # [22:33] <skyler_brungardt> However, the *browser* should be providing the ellipsis, if it isn't big enough to show the text
  1360. # [22:33] <skyler_brungardt> Not the stylesheet
  1361. # [22:33] <snover> wat?
  1362. # [22:33] <danbeam> wat
  1363. # [22:33] <skyler_brungardt> Push it on the browser.
  1364. # [22:33] <danbeam> where is CSS interpretted applied?
  1365. # [22:33] <tw2113> what? no p:after { content: "..."; }
  1366. # [22:33] <danbeam> tw2113: after how long...? ;)
  1367. # [22:34] <uf0_work> like i said before
  1368. # [22:34] <uf0_work> text-oveflow-lines: 3;
  1369. # [22:34] <uf0_work> case closed
  1370. # [22:34] <skyler_brungardt> danbeam: Yeah, but don't hardcode it into the css.
  1371. # [22:34] <tw2113> 3rd paragraph :D
  1372. # [22:34] <danbeam> uf0_work: that'd be grand
  1373. # [22:34] <skyler_brungardt> Because then it doesn't scale up well.
  1374. # [22:34] <uf0_work> done deal, let's do it!
  1375. # [22:34] <snover> p { height: 3em; }
  1376. # [22:34] <snover> case closed
  1377. # [22:34] <danbeam> skyler_brungardt: you're saying add things to a default browser stylesheet?
  1378. # [22:34] <tw2113> p:nth-child(3):after
  1379. # [22:34] <skyler_brungardt> danbeam: Not a default stylesheet at all
  1380. # [22:34] <uf0_work> snover: I agree there as well
  1381. # [22:34] <skyler_brungardt> danbeam: Browser functionality
  1382. # [22:35] <skyler_brungardt> Let's say MobileSafari
  1383. # [22:35] <danbeam> snover: that doesn't work everywhere, don't think
  1384. # [22:35] <snover> p { max-height: 3em; overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis; } max three lines with ellipsis if text overflows
  1385. # [22:35] <skyler_brungardt> Detects that text flows outside its container due to small screen size
  1386. # [22:35] <skyler_brungardt> And so then renders ellipsis instead
  1387. # [22:35] <snover> danbeam: but that’s an implementation problem and does not require us to add more properties *anywhere*
  1388. # [22:35] <danbeam> snover: white-space: nowrap; is required as well, I think
  1389. # [22:35] <danbeam> snover: that's the issue
  1390. # [22:35] <snover> skyler_brungardt: media at-rules already do that
  1391. # [22:35] <snover> danbeam: it’s not
  1392. # [22:36] <danbeam> snover: how much you wanna bet? ;)
  1393. # [22:36] <snover> if whitespace:nowrap was necessary then the third example in the spec that I just linked everyone to would be invalid
  1394. # [22:36] <uf0_work> white-space: nowrap = ONE LINE
  1395. # [22:36] <snover> http://zetafleet.com/i/4dc99f275c594.png
  1396. # [22:36] <uf0_work> no good
  1397. # [22:36] <snover> http://zetafleet.com/i/4dc99f275c594.png
  1398. # [22:36] <snover> http://zetafleet.com/i/4dc99f275c594.png
  1399. # [22:36] <snover> http://zetafleet.com/i/4dc99f275c594.png
  1400. # [22:36] <snover> THREE LINES
  1401. # [22:36] <snover> ELLIPSIS
  1402. # [22:36] <danbeam> snover: use Opera
  1403. # [22:36] * Joins: robhawkes (~robhawkes@87-194-135-193.bethere.co.uk)
  1404. # [22:36] <danbeam> snover: go to that page
  1405. # [22:36] <danbeam> ;)
  1406. # [22:36] <uf0_work> errrr
  1407. # [22:36] <snover> danbeam: just because the browser’s implementation is wrong does not mean it’s time to come up with new CSS properties
  1408. # [22:37] <snover> or, even worse, HTML properties
  1409. # [22:37] <skyler_brungardt> (Worked for IE...)
  1410. # [22:37] <snover> it means, file a bug
  1411. # [22:37] <snover> let the browser mfgr fix it
  1412. # [22:37] <snover> chrome works, ie works, firefox will probably work since they are bikeshedding the shit out of their stupid implementation
  1413. # [22:37] <danbeam> snover: there is no implementation in FF yet
  1414. # [22:37] <skyler_brungardt> snover: That solution doesn't cut it either
  1415. # [22:37] <skyler_brungardt> Take web workers, for example
  1416. # [22:38] <skyler_brungardt> MS doesn't implement them
  1417. # [22:38] <snover> danbeam: I’m on the cc list for the bug, they are landing patches right now for it
  1418. # [22:38] <skyler_brungardt> They might not for a good long time
  1419. # [22:38] <danbeam> snover: I've seen it
  1420. # [22:38] <skyler_brungardt> Not a "bug"
  1421. # [22:38] <danbeam> snover: but it's not there yet, ;)
  1422. # [22:38] <skyler_brungardt> It was never intended to have them
  1423. # [22:38] <snover> danbeam: and how is adding a completely *new* thing going to “get there” faster?
  1424. # [22:38] <snover> skyler_brungardt: same question ^
  1425. # [22:38] * Quits: Rob- (~robhawkes@87-194-135-193.bethere.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1426. # [22:39] <skyler_brungardt> snover: Doesn't matter if MS says "Not gonna do it."
  1427. # [22:39] <snover> which they haven’t
  1428. # [22:39] * Quits: Titosemi1 (~titosemi@g230238239.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1429. # [22:39] <skyler_brungardt> Yeah, we'll see.
  1430. # [22:39] <skyler_brungardt> I'm not sold on it yet. IE9 is underwhelming, in my opinion.
  1431. # [22:40] <snover> they have a limited amount of manpower and prioritise what they work on depending upon what their customers ask for
  1432. # [22:40] * Joins: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
  1433. # [22:40] <skyler_brungardt> (Guess I should be careful, lest I start another flame war.)
  1434. # [22:40] <snover> this shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone
  1435. # [22:40] <danbeam> snover: it's not, but just because they're landing patches doesn't mean we can use it right now
  1436. # [22:40] <snover> that’s completely orthogonal to this discussion
  1437. # [22:40] <snover> which as far as I can tell was “boy wouldn’t it be nice to be able to text-overflow: ellipsis text with multiple lines”
  1438. # [22:41] <snover> and the answer is
  1439. # [22:41] <snover> you already can, with the features that already exist, and if it doesn’t work it’s a browser bug and you should file it
  1440. # [22:41] <danbeam> I'm not sure it's a bug
  1441. # [22:41] <danbeam> in Opera
  1442. # [22:41] * Joins: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  1443. # [22:41] <nimbupani> wats upp
  1444. # [22:41] <jdalton> .
  1445. # [22:41] <snover> nimbupani: is it a bug in Opera that text-overflow does not work properly with multiple lines? see http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-ui/#text-overflow
  1446. # [22:42] <danbeam> snover: I think I've read somewhere you're supposed to be required to have white-space: nowrap;
  1447. # [22:42] <nimbupani> snover: yeah
  1448. # [22:42] <danbeam> snover: but I'm having trouble finding it now
  1449. # [22:42] <nimbupani> ?paste @ snover
  1450. # [22:42] <bot-t> snover, Please paste your code at http://jsfiddle.net/ [preferred], http://paste.pocoo.org/+js or http://fixee.org/
  1451. # [22:42] <snover> boom.
  1452. # [22:42] * Joins: dcadenas_ (~dcadenas@r186-48-219-11.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)
  1453. # [22:42] <nimbupani> i mean i dunno if its a bug
  1454. # [22:42] <nimbupani> i was "yeah" ing danbeam
  1455. # [22:43] <snover> I just opened Opera and it renders the spec exactly the way the spec says it is supposed to
  1456. # [22:43] <uf0_work> snover: http://zetafleet.com/i/4dc99f275c594.png that you pasted isn't realistic
  1457. # [22:43] <uf0_work> the styles need a height
  1458. # [22:43] <uf0_work> and width
  1459. # [22:43] <uf0_work> period.
  1460. # [22:43] <nimbupani> yeah seems okay to me too snover
  1461. # [22:43] <nimbupani> so what is your problemo then?
  1462. # [22:44] <snover> uf0_work: I dunno what you are talking about, that is from http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-ui/#text-overflow
  1463. # [22:44] <snover> i.e. the text-overflow spec
  1464. # [22:44] <uf0_work> snover: even though it's from the GODS
  1465. # [22:44] <nimbupani> snover snover snover
  1466. # [22:44] <uf0_work> that wouldn't work
  1467. # [22:44] <nimbupani> what exactly is the issue
  1468. # [22:44] <skyler_brungardt> Right
  1469. # [22:44] <snover> nimbupani: these folks seem to think that it is impossible/wrong to text-overflow: ellipsis without white-space: nowrap
  1470. # [22:44] <nimbupani> oh its not impossible
  1471. # [22:44] <danbeam> snover: haha, I don't think it's impossible
  1472. # [22:44] <nimbupani> its just hard to see it happen
  1473. # [22:45] <snover> and that there should be a new property or something
  1474. # [22:45] <skyler_brungardt> Why would it matter?
  1475. # [22:45] <nimbupani> ehh why?
  1476. # [22:45] <danbeam> snover: I just remember having seen somewhere recommending it
  1477. # [22:45] * CrashTest_ is now known as CrashTeeth_
  1478. # [22:45] <danbeam> snover: probably just MDC page https://developer.mozilla.org/En/CSS/Text-overflow?action=edit
  1479. # [22:45] <snover> danbeam: if you look hard enough you can see people recommend all sorts of stupid things :)
  1480. # [22:45] <danbeam> snover: but that doesn't mean you _need_ it
  1481. # [22:45] <skyler_brungardt> I still maintain that server-size, or with JS, is the best way to handle this.
  1482. # [22:45] <nimbupani> text-overflow: ellipsis would occur when even after wordwrap text escapes container and container's overflow is set to hidden
  1483. # [22:45] * Quits: dcadenas (~dcadenas@r186-48-218-46.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1484. # [22:45] <nimbupani> text-overflow only works when overflow: hidden exists
  1485. # [22:46] <danbeam> nimbupani: no other properties necessary?
  1486. # [22:46] <danbeam> nimbupani: like height/width to trigger overflow?
  1487. # [22:46] * Quits: anthracite (~anthracit@77.185.250.125) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1488. # [22:46] <uf0_work> ^^ this
  1489. # [22:46] <danbeam> nimbupani: hasLayout in IE?
  1490. # [22:46] <uf0_work> you need a height and width
  1491. # [22:46] <nimbupani> danbeam: i dunno which version of IE < 9 supports text-overflow ellipsis
  1492. # [22:46] <snover> you don’t need both uf0_work
  1493. # [22:46] <nimbupani> you need nothing
  1494. # [22:46] <skyler_brungardt> It's still a LOT of styles to add
  1495. # [22:46] <danbeam> nimbupani: all
  1496. # [22:46] <uf0_work> more specifically width
  1497. # [22:46] <nimbupani> you only need overflow: hidden
  1498. # [22:46] <nimbupani> width is inherited
  1499. # [22:46] <nimbupani> on block elements
  1500. # [22:46] <nimbupani> to 100%
  1501. # [22:46] <skyler_brungardt> nimbupani: I think IE8 does
  1502. # [22:47] <danbeam> nimbupani: what if it's not a block level element, ;)?
  1503. # [22:47] <nimbupani> o cool.
  1504. # [22:47] * Joins: dcadenas (~dcadenas@r186-48-208-16.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)
  1505. # [22:47] <snover> text overflows out of a box if the box is too narrow and it can’t break the word
  1506. # [22:47] <danbeam> nimbupani: all IE6+ have text-overflow
  1507. # [22:47] <nimbupani> then I am not sure how overflow: hidden would even apply.
  1508. # [22:47] <nimbupani> you cant apply overflow to inline leements
  1509. # [22:47] <uf0_work> nimbupani: our real debate here though was for multiple lines
  1510. # [22:47] <nimbupani> oh cool danbeam thats awes.
  1511. # [22:48] <uf0_work> currently only 1 line is supported
  1512. # [22:48] <uf0_work> according to snover
  1513. # [22:48] <uf0_work> multiple lines are supposed to work
  1514. # [22:48] <snover> uf0_work: that is exactly the opposite of what I just said
  1515. # [22:48] <nimbupani> snover: what did you say
  1516. # [22:48] <uf0_work> snover: you said..
  1517. # [22:48] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.115.237) (Quit: nn)
  1518. # [22:48] <uf0_work> that text-overflow will work having multiple lines?
  1519. # [22:48] <danbeam> snover, nimbupani what if you have an inline element that wraps 3 lines -- it must be within a block level element somewhere, though, eh? (i.e. <body>)
  1520. # [22:48] <uf0_work> am I wrong
  1521. # [22:48] <uf0_work> ?
  1522. # [22:48] <uf0_work> according to your JPG
  1523. # [22:48] * Quits: beeviz (~beevi2@ip-78-94-3-11.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1524. # [22:49] <uf0_work> or w3c jpg
  1525. # [22:49] <nimbupani> danbeam: what you mean?
  1526. # [22:49] <nimbupani> text-overflow does not inherit
  1527. # [22:49] <snover> I think you are obviously going to have to clarify what you mean by “multiple lines” at this point
  1528. # [22:49] <nimbupani> which means the element it applies to needs to be block-level elements
  1529. # [22:49] <snover> since the third example is clearly 3 lines
  1530. # [22:49] <uf0_work> sure sec.
  1531. # [22:49] <snover> and it has an ellipsis
  1532. # [22:49] <nimbupani> and it will apply directly to the text inside the block element
  1533. # [22:50] <snover> anyway
  1534. # [22:50] <snover> I’m done discussing this
  1535. # [22:50] <uf0_work> example: http://jsfiddle.net/6JHwe/
  1536. # [22:50] <nimbupani> okay can I go now snover?
  1537. # [22:50] * Quits: dcadenas_ (~dcadenas@r186-48-219-11.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1538. # [22:50] <danbeam> nimbupani: <body><span style="text-overflow:ellipsis;">lorem ipsum......</span></body>
  1539. # [22:50] <uf0_work> that doesn't work in any browser.
  1540. # [22:50] <uf0_work> and that has multiple lines
  1541. # [22:50] <nimbupani> danbeam: you gotta make span display: block
  1542. # [22:50] <danbeam> nimbupani: <body><span style="text-overflow:ellipsis;overflow:hidden;">lorem ipsum......</span></body>
  1543. # [22:50] <snover> uf0_work: what do you think white-space: nowrap means?
  1544. # [22:50] <danbeam> nimbupani: but what if I can't or don't want to?
  1545. # [22:51] <nimbupani> then you cannot apply text-overflow
  1546. # [22:51] <uf0_work> snover: if I add white-space: nowrap; it will become 1 line
  1547. # [22:51] <uf0_work> that's not what I want
  1548. # [22:51] <snover> yeah, so why is it there then?
  1549. # [22:51] <uf0_work> which is my point of
  1550. # [22:51] <danbeam> nimbupani: ok, unless I do it myself in JS, :)
  1551. # [22:51] <uf0_work> text-overflow-lines: 3;
  1552. # [22:52] <uf0_work> so if I do add whitespace: nowrap
  1553. # [22:52] <uf0_work> it'll cap at 3 lines
  1554. # [22:52] <uf0_work> and if that isn't added
  1555. # [22:52] <uf0_work> it'll cap at the height
  1556. # [22:52] <uf0_work> like in the example
  1557. # [22:52] * Quits: BigKing (~BigKing@p5DCE8A1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1558. # [22:53] * Quits: vier (~Josh@b218-1.nat.uq.edu.au) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
  1559. # [22:53] <nimbupani> danbeam: text-overflow only accounts for cases when text actually overflows container dimensions horizontally for horizontal text
  1560. # [22:53] <danbeam> uf0_work: I think snover is saying you white-space: nowrap; means you'll always have 1 line, so there's no point in saying text-overflow-lines: 3; when you'll only have 1 line
  1561. # [22:53] <uf0_work> ^^^^^^ thus
  1562. # [22:53] <uf0_work> danbeam: understood
  1563. # [22:53] <uf0_work> nimbupani: I'm asking for support vertically
  1564. # [22:54] <uf0_work> possible?
  1565. # [22:54] <nimbupani> no its not
  1566. # [22:54] <uf0_work> well it's a good idea to implement
  1567. # [22:54] <nimbupani> i am not even sure how that would look like
  1568. # [22:54] * danbeam has a feeling snover said /ignore uf0_work a while ago, lol
  1569. # [22:55] <nimbupani> you should email the mailing list and ask
  1570. # [22:55] <nimbupani> or ask @t about it
  1571. # [22:55] <uf0_work> nimbupani: it would like the same
  1572. # [22:55] <nimbupani> on twitter
  1573. # [22:55] <uf0_work> just 3 lines
  1574. # [22:55] * Joins: vier (~Josh@b218-1.nat.uq.edu.au)
  1575. # [22:55] <uf0_work> or 4 or whatever depending on height
  1576. # [22:55] <uf0_work> just like it does with width
  1577. # [22:55] <snover> I think that would be a good adjustment to the text-overflow spec
  1578. # [22:55] <uf0_work> nimbupani: can you ping me where to email to?
  1579. # [22:55] <snover> but it might be tricky when dealing with scrollable content
  1580. # [22:56] <nimbupani> not me uf0_work!
  1581. # [22:56] <snover> remember that block with overflow set to something other than visible is also a scrollable block
  1582. # [22:56] <nimbupani> mail the css mailing list
  1583. # [22:56] <uf0_work> that's what I meant, what's the css mailing list.. ping me that
  1584. # [22:56] <uf0_work> snover: true.
  1585. # [22:56] <snover> uf0_work: http://wiki.csswg.org/
  1586. # [22:57] * Quits: Michael (~disney@unaffiliated/jabberwock) (Quit: Leaving)
  1587. # [22:57] <nimbupani> it needs a lmgtfy snover
  1588. # [22:57] <uf0_work> thanks
  1589. # [22:58] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@rrcs-173-198-32-146.west.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  1590. # [22:59] <danbeam> nimbupani: I don't know how to re-invite bot-t, but you'd be able to just ?g it otherwise
  1591. # [22:59] <danbeam> ?g css3 mailing list
  1592. # [22:59] <bot-t> danbeam, Vendor specific extensions to CSS3 - CSS3 . Info - http://www.css3.info/vendor-specific-extensions-to-css3/
  1593. # [22:59] <danbeam> nvm
  1594. # [22:59] <nimbupani> danbeam: I know
  1595. # [23:00] <nimbupani> botty is my best friend.
  1596. # [23:00] <nimbupani> apparently bot-t is back
  1597. # [23:00] <nimbupani> bot-t: am I your friend?
  1598. # [23:00] <bot-t> nimbupani, Without a doubt.
  1599. # [23:00] <danbeam> ?g css3 mailing list site:w3.org
  1600. # [23:00] <bot-t> danbeam, CSS3 Speech Module - http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-css3-speech-20110419/
  1601. # [23:00] <nimbupani> awww ♥ bot-t
  1602. # [23:00] <danbeam> damn
  1603. # [23:00] * Joins: marshall (~jeff@dsl-69-171-128-6.acanac.net)
  1604. # [23:00] <marshall> hey html5
  1605. # [23:00] <marshall> anybody have experience drawing text in canvas?
  1606. # [23:01] * Parts: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
  1607. # [23:04] <uf0_work> well it was good debate and hopefully text-overflow vertical support will happen sometime in future
  1608. # [23:04] <uf0_work> i'll keep at it..
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The end :)