/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-06-20 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Jun 20 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [01:06] <luchenbill> I added the !doctype html (html 5 doctype) to my website, and it made a little white space at the bottom of the page, any ideas why? http://www.modernwebpro.com/dan/about/index.html
# [01:08] <tw2113> luchenbill because that background image isn't actually set as a background in css
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# [01:10] <tw2113> <div id="backgroundImage" style="visibility: visible;"><img src="background.jpg" style="width: 100%; height: auto; top: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left:0px;" alt="DA Music Studios" /></div>
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# [01:25] <luchenbill> tw2113 so there is no way to fix it?
# [01:25] <tw2113> ?g css backgrounds
# [01:25] <bot-t> tw2113, CSS Background - http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_background.asp
# [01:25] <tw2113> you bastard bot
# [01:26] <luchenbill> well I understand on how to set it as a css background
# [01:26] <luchenbill> but in this case I have the bg image is being resized by a js script
# [01:26] <luchenbill> based upon the browser's width and height
# [01:26] <luchenbill> so I need it in the markup like this
# [01:26] <tw2113> then the js isn't working quite right
# [01:27] <luchenbill> if I use the xhmlt doctype it's just fine
# [01:27] <luchenbill> it's just the html5 doctype
# [01:27] <luchenbill> that throws it off
# [01:27] <luchenbill> if you check the 'homgepage' you can see it
# [01:28] <tw2113> i see white space at the bottom when the image ends on the homepage too
# [01:29] <luchenbill> I guess you can see it on ie only
# [01:29] <luchenbill> not ff or chrome
# [01:29] <snover> luchenbill: changing the doctype from xhtml to html5 won’t cause any rendering change
# [01:29] <tw2113> eww
# [01:29] <luchenbill> :|
# [01:29] <tw2113> something working in IE only is something broken
# [01:30] <luchenbill> i'm trying to be cross browser scripting
# [01:30] <luchenbill> fml
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# [01:30] <snover> luchenbill: <img>s are inline bra
# [01:30] <snover> you gotta make it a block-level element
# [01:31] <snover> the “white space” you are seeing is the descender space for the line on which the image is sitting
# [01:32] <luchenbill> well i'm very new to this whole web stuff, could you help explain it in better terms, as like how I can fix it?
# [01:32] <luchenbill> you say I need to make it block not inline?
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# [01:32] <luchenbill> display: block?
# [01:33] <luchenbill> wow it looks like that did the trick
# [01:33] <luchenbill> lol
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# [01:35] <tw2113> not in FF4 still
# [01:35] <snover> luchenbill: please stop using inline styles.
# [01:35] <tw2113> please stop testing in IE first
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# [01:41] <thatryan> tw2113: bring me a pizza cool?
# [01:41] <thatryan> ;)
# [01:43] <tw2113> :)
# [01:44] <thatryan> lol
# [01:44] <thatryan> nice
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# [02:01] <luchenbill> tw2113 I never test ie
# [02:01] <luchenbill> well if I do it's last
# [02:01] <luchenbill> snover i'm just learning :p
# [02:01] <luchenbill> f -inline
# [02:01] <luchenbill> and tw2113 I didn't update the website just local testing
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# [02:02] <tw2113> ah
# [02:02] <luchenbill> now it's updated ;p
# [02:02] <luchenbill> and yeah it looks great now thanks snover
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# [02:14] <luchenbill> what does the HTML5 Conformance Checker. warning mean?
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# [02:27] <djazz> love html5 ! http://i.imgur.com/XVFlF.png
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# [02:32] <luchenbill> that is done with html5?
# [02:32] <djazz> yes
# [02:32] <djazz> http://bit.ly/jImUDV <-- demo
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# [02:34] <djazz> the 3d bg is the slowest, it is drawn pixel by pixel
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# [02:41] <jn> just released this: http://dropgif.com - appreciate any feedback
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# [02:43] <djazz> luchenbill, saw it?
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# [02:50] <nimbu> jn: wow pretty neat and nifty! you should add it needs drag n drop API to work too?
# [02:51] <ben_c> jn: sweet
# [02:52] <luchenbill> can anyone tell me what the HTML5 Conformance checker does? or means? or why it's a warning?
# [02:52] <jn> thanks :)
# [02:52] <ben_c> jn: love the cheeky 3D reveal when you hit the info
# [02:53] <jn> nimbu: that's part of the file api as i understand it
# [02:53] <paul_irish> jn: this is fucking cool
# [02:53] <bot-t> (49 mins 40 secs ago) <abjorn> Tell paul_irish I proved to him I'm not a hipster: https://github.com/Abjorn/SofaJS or that I proved his point entirely, I'm not really sure
# [02:53] <paul_irish> ha
# [02:53] <jn> ben_c: hehe :)
# [02:53] <paul_irish> jn: very nice
# [02:54] <nimbu> jn: not afaik http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/dnd.html
# [02:55] <nimbu> jn: opera supports fileAPI (mostly) http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/presto29/file/ but not drag and drop yet :(
# [02:56] <jn> nimbu: aah, you are correct
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# [02:57] <jn> ill add it to the about, and perhaps a file input button as a fallback
# [02:58] <paul_irish> you can style a file input to be invis but stil have the drag n dropability
# [02:58] <paul_irish> only downside is you dont have dragover notification
# [02:59] <ryanseddon> you can't drag and drop stuff onto opera file inputs, last time i checked anyway
# [03:00] <paul_irish> ohisthatso
# [03:01] <ryanseddon> so you can't even fake DnD
# [03:01] <ryanseddon> Firefox and IE also don't let you do it, seems to be a webkit thing
# [03:04] <ben_c> Just checked in the latest opera and yeah dragging any file to the input just loads the entire file
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# [03:05] <ryanseddon> Lame
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# [04:57] <frankstallone> Can anybody help me with the build script on HTML5 Boilerplate? @paul_irish was telling me I should look at the Ant documentation but I don't know what I am looking for. I have files/folders that I want to not include in the /publish/folder but they have spaces and I haven't figure out how to add it properly to the project.properties file.
# [04:58] <frankstallone> so for instance in the root I want it to ignore my Espresso file so *.esproj doesn't work and neither does Material Workshop.esproj, nor 'Material Workshop.esproj'
# [04:59] <ryanseddon> frankstallone: ant uses java and is command line
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# [05:00] <ryanseddon> so you might want to check out http://ant.apache.org/
# [05:00] <frankstallone> yeah, so what am I looking for, "How to represent spaces in Ant"?
# [05:00] <frankstallone> It's like pointing someone to a dictionary when they have no idea how to spell the word -- I have been to that site and looked around and haven't figured out what I am looking for
# [05:01] <frankstallone> this is only frustrating because I am eager to learn and got caught up on something so small =)
# [05:02] <frankstallone> I can get file names and folders without spaces to be ignored by the build script with no problem
# [05:04] <ryanseddon> whats your build script look , can you post that somehwere
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# [05:05] <frankstallone> the project.properties file is default expect for the file.execute line I am trying to edit, 1 sec
# [05:06] <frankstallone> http://pastebin.com/FmQnvad0
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# [05:08] <frankstallone> %20 didn't work
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# [05:11] <puppustan> hello
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# [05:11] <JonathanNeal> word
# [05:12] <puppustan> hello JonathanNeal
# [05:12] <puppustan> do you use canvas
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# [05:14] <JonathanNeal> no i do not, yet.
# [05:14] <puppustan> JonathanNeal: oh cool
# [05:14] <JonathanNeal> it's so totally awesome how i don't use it yet, yes
# [05:14] <JonathanNeal> 8D
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# [05:18] <puppustan> im hungry
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# [06:01] <cgcardona> word
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# [06:18] <tw2113> cgcardona http://trexthepirate.com/twittersearches/
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# [06:18] <cgcardona> nice work
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# [06:20] <tw2113> 43 lines including all of the html
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# [06:23] <cgcardona> really?
# [06:24] <cgcardona> are you hitting the twitter api or using a plugin?
# [06:24] <cgcardona> or library etc?
# [06:24] <cgcardona> really nice work
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# [06:30] <tw2113> cgcardona http://fpaste.org/qJmS/
# [06:30] <cgcardona> wow
# [06:30] <cgcardona> short and sweet
# [06:30] <cgcardona> very cool
# [06:30] <tw2113> pretty much
# [06:30] <tw2113> utilizing the search api
# [06:30] <cgcardona> bookmarked
# [06:31] <tw2113> any suggested terms?
# [06:31] <cgcardona> #paul_irish
# [06:32] <tw2113> well played
# [06:33] <tw2113> i even sneak in a last-child pseudo element
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# [07:11] <tw2113> ooh, cgcardona i should post this one on github
# [07:11] <tw2113> it's simple enough for easy editing of what terms you see
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# [07:13] <cgcardona> it's good. You should put it on github. I agree
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# [07:30] <puppustan> yop
# [07:31] <puppustan> yo
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# [07:31] <jeffszusz> yop (yo mama)
# [07:31] <puppustan> having issues with json
# [07:31] <puppustan> and jquery
# [07:31] <puppustan> and arrays
# [07:32] <jeffszusz> lol
# [07:32] <jeffszusz> javascript in general?
# [07:32] <puppustan> yup
# [07:33] <jeffszusz> where did you start and what are your issues?
# [07:33] <puppustan> just this one thing im wroking on
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# [07:40] <tw2113> cgcardona it's posted
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# [08:06] <cgcardona> tw2113: sorry for the delay. I was launching this https://audiofile.cc/boombox
# [08:07] <tw2113> no worries
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# [08:24] <Zeddy> Hey, say i have an article reader, where the articles are taken from a database and the data displayed using php, whats the best way to allow the cache manifest to cache each article?
# [08:25] <Zeddy> should i just generate a manifest file containing mypage.com/article/5 mypage.com/article/6
# [08:25] <Zeddy> or should i load the article data somehow separetly and display it using javascript?
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# [08:28] <Zeddy> im thinking of just creating one huge jquerymobile page containing hundreads of articles and some images and just storing that, would that make it dead slow to load? :P
# [08:35] <ryanseddon> does anyone remember the site where you can drag and drop an image and it will convert it to base64?
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# [08:37] <ryanseddon> nvm
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# [10:42] <Zeddy> wtf is up with this channnel
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# [10:42] <Zeddy> theres like 132 people just idling
# [10:44] <moo-_-> Zeddy: shut up and idle like a good person ;F
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# [11:40] <asonge> so, chrome is not sending me shit for events with html5 audio tag :/
# [11:41] <asonge> all i get is the waiting event
# [11:41] <asonge> nothing else
# [11:43] <moo-_-> asonge: http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2/
# [11:43] <moo-_-> comes with extensive debug output
# [11:46] <asonge> oh wow
# [11:47] <asonge> i feel really fucking stupid
# [11:47] <asonge> javascript binding error :/
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# [11:47] <asonge> killed by closures
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# [11:50] <asonge> now where can i see what data is available in the metadata
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# [12:30] <djazz> why is the textured background so slow to render (imagedata)? http://i.imgur.com/hFkCU.png http://bit.ly/jImUDV
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# [15:45] <JonathanNeal> halo
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# [16:13] <alisalaah> halo
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# [16:23] <Wilto> Whuddup.
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# [16:45] <cgcardona> mornin
# [16:46] <vladikoff> heya
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# [16:50] <djazz> hello
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# [17:54] <frankstallone> How do you guys feel about using an <aside> for a sidebar on a website?
# [17:54] <nimbu> do it
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# [17:55] <ryanneufeld> frankstallone: warm and fuzzy?
# [17:57] <frankstallone> I feel more cold shoulder about it
# [17:57] <frankstallone> so, interesting
# [17:57] <ben_c> I guess it depends what's going in the sidebar
# [17:59] <frankstallone> sidebar stuff -- twitter feed, maybe a navigation
# [17:59] <frankstallone> things related to the site but not specifically to the article is what I typically see in sidebars
# [17:59] <ben_c> Sounds like the perfect content to go in an aside!
# [18:00] <thatryan> yeah that is the very definition of its use right?
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# [18:00] <xec> well, i thought it was supposed to go in the middle of content somewhere
# [18:00] <xec> i would use <section> for a sidebar
# [18:01] <frankstallone> Yeah I think the definition of aside says it has to be in some way/directly related to the content on the page
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# [18:01] <ben_c> "The aside element represents a section of a page that consists of content that is tangentially related to the content around the aside element, and which could be considered separate from that content. Such sections are often represented as sidebars in printed typography."
# [18:01] <frankstallone> I'd say a sidebar navigation/twitter feed/etc. are all related to a site but not to that specific article
# [18:01] <xec> hmm yes, i suppose
# [18:02] <frankstallone> ben_c: where did you grab that quote from>
# [18:02] <frankstallone> ?
# [18:02] <ben_c> http://html5doctor.com/understanding-aside/
# [18:02] <ben_c> Pretty much covers this exact question
# [18:02] <ben_c> "Navigation, ads, search boxes, blogrolls and so on are not directly related to the article and therefore do not justify the use of an <aside>."
# [18:03] <ben_c> So section probably would be the best bet
# [18:03] <frankstallone> agreed
# [18:03] <frankstallone> 110%
# [18:03] <frankstallone> here's a good question
# [18:03] <frankstallone> on a WordPress blogroll page -- where you have excerpts of maybe 200 characters of an article (teaser) would you considering that asides from their main article showing on a blogroll
# [18:03] <frankstallone> ?
# [18:03] <frankstallone> #deep
# [18:06] <ben_c> hmm.. probably not
# [18:07] <frankstallone> written well here, "The problem here is that the spec stretches the natural interpretation of what an aside is, i.e. a short, temporary digression. "Blogrolls and other side content on a blog" are not short or temporary, or even necessarily tangentially related to the main content."
# [18:07] <frankstallone> - http://leonpaternoster.com/2010/03/an-aside-really-isnt-a-sidebar/
# [18:07] <ben_c> And what about on the 'About Us' page where the sidebar may very likely be related to the main content of the page, should you swap the tag on that page to use aside? You have to draw the line somewhere
# [18:08] <frankstallone> In that particular example yes you could if its more semantic, why wouldn't you?
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# [18:08] <frankstallone> you can easily coma separate your styles, and even in a CMS (theoretically) like WordPress you can use a Custom Page Template
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# [18:10] <Sembiance> rofl, there is an html5 channel :)
# [18:11] <mokush> you guys, help me out. why don't the table-cell's respect the width's autoritah? http://jsfiddle.net/2kabX/11/
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# [18:11] <Sembiance> guess I have another channel to idle in 24/7 rofl
# [18:12] <ben_c> frankstallone: Yeah I guess, just adds an extra level of maintainability for little gain
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# [18:13] <xec> mokush: it does? thing is, 4x500px doesnt fit
# [18:13] <frankstallone> ben_c: I agree, good point.
# [18:13] <frankstallone> ben_c: 2nd best conversation of the morning... Thank you lol!
# [18:13] <xec> mokush: if you try 50px instead it works nicely, or am i missing something
# [18:13] <mokush> xec: so how can I get the span's to actualy have the specified width?
# [18:14] <ben_c> frankstallone: dammit, was going for #1 conversation of the morning, what beat it?
# [18:14] <nimbu> mokush: the table is always constrained by the width of the container
# [18:15] <nimbu> why are you using a table if you want a div like behavior?
# [18:15] <cylentwolf> mokush: do what xec said and put in 50 and it works
# [18:15] <xec> mokush: well, you made them into table-cells, so now they will act like <td>'s - they do respect your width but up to a certain point
# [18:15] <frankstallone> ben_c: phycological conversation about how humans change their thoughts, which change their beliefs and habits (it's a deep one LOL)
# [18:15] <mokush> nimbu: because I want them to stay next to each other, regardles of the container
# [18:15] <thatryan> have any of you had a site that shows up blank in ie7, but still clickable to internal pages?
# [18:15] <mokush> nimbu: and using floats would wrap
# [18:16] <ben_c> frankstallone: too deep, no doubt!
# [18:16] <xec> mokush: but you want them bigger than they have room for?
# [18:16] <mokush> xec: exactly, I want them to expand the container and stay on the same line.
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# [18:17] <nimbu> mokush: u could absolutely position them if thats the case and you know the width.
# [18:17] <m1chael> i'm new with css/html... i've got a page i'm working on with hundreds and hundreds of mp3 links... i'm trying to make the page more friendly... this is a (very short) example of what i am up against: http://dpaste.com/556517/ # any suggestions?
# [18:18] <mokush> nimbu: well, I don't know the width of the container, because I don't know the number of 'table-cell's. I only know the width of the cell
# [18:19] <nimbu> mokush: then you should probably wrap them in another container which is absolutely positioned
# [18:19] <xec> mokush: http://jsfiddle.net/2kabX/17/
# [18:19] <danbeam> m1chael: http://mediaplayer.yahoo.com (~ self-promotion! ~)
# [18:20] <danbeam> m1chael: picks up .mp3 links and makes them "playable" with 1 line of HTML (just <script type="text/javascript" src="http://webplayer.yahooapis.com/player.js"></script>)
# [18:20] <xec> mokush: for that last idea of mine you would need to override white-space on the spans and not have any whitespace between them
# [18:20] <xec> or something like that :D
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# [18:21] <m1chael> danbeam: looks really good, maybe a bit complex for my purpose though. im going to have to check this out in full detail :) thanks
# [18:22] <xec> mokush: something like this? http://jsfiddle.net/2kabX/18/
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# [18:23] <mokush> xec: just what I'm looking for. Thanks man!
# [18:23] <xec> you're welcome :)
# [18:24] <danbeam> m1chael: you can also use it without a UI if you just want to play the .mp3s without any visible player
# [18:24] <danbeam> m1chael: but I'll warn you -- it's also not HTML5 (yet)
# [18:24] <danbeam> m1chael: it does use a little bit of flash
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# [18:25] <ben_c> danbeam: did you just say flash in the HTML5 channel?!
# [18:25] <danbeam> ben_c: yup, deal with it
# [18:25] * xec gasps
# [18:25] <danbeam> ben_c: ;)
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# [18:25] <danbeam> somebody pointed at soundmanager2
# [18:25] <danbeam> it's also flash
# [18:25] <danbeam> DUN DUN DUN!
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# [18:26] <danbeam> "Using HTML5 and Flash, SoundManager 2 provides reliable cross-platform audio under a single API."
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# [18:27] <xec> how reliably cross platform could it be if it needs flash? or is it just a fallback?
# [18:28] <cylentwolf> i bet fallback
# [18:28] <ben_c> I bet it uses flash by default and falls-forward to HTML5 if flash isn't there
# [18:29] <ben_c> Which makes me sad
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# [18:30] <xec> i bet it uses flash for everything, and the only html5 is a <footer> tag and the doctype declaration :D
# [18:31] <ben_c> haha
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# [18:42] <Bennit> Hai, is <canvas>'s height property supposed to work like with a div?
# [18:42] <Bennit> I'm trying to make a canvas that is 100% of the screen's height
# [18:42] <Bennit> but in chrome it seems like there is some padding on the bottom
# [18:43] <m1chael> danbeam: so you would say that this yahoo player is the best i'm going to get? what if a browser doesn't support it?
# [18:43] <alisalaah> ?fpi
# [18:43] <bot-t> fucking paul irish! http://i.imgur.com/gpspl.png
# [18:44] <Bennit> is this normal behaviour?
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# [18:49] <cheilmann> the yahoo player is a pile of crap
# [18:50] <cheilmann> soundmanager is the best you can get
# [18:50] <cylentwolf> bennit: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1664785/html5-canvas-resize-to-fit-window
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# [18:51] <moo-_-> how do I draw image to canvas, manipulate it and get Image object again out of canvas?
# [18:52] <moo-_-> like put <img> through canvas filter?
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# [18:52] <moo-_-> all pointers welcome
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# [18:57] <cheilmann> you can add the image to the canvas and then read out the whole canvas as a data URL
# [18:59] <cheilmann> Simple demo: http://introducinghtml5.com/examples/ch05/getimagedata.html
# [18:59] <cheilmann> and for saving: http://introducinghtml5.com/examples/ch05/todataurl.html
# [18:59] <tw2113> good afternoon all
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# [19:01] <LoneStar99> anyone have time to look at a canvas image and let me know why some lines appear?
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# [19:02] <danbeam> cheilmann: thanks, bro, your welcome for paying your salary for however many years <3 Yahoo!
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# [19:03] <cheilmann> Oh come on! The MP3 media player has NEVER been updated. It was a one-off project.
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# [19:03] <danbeam> cheilmann: what's the URL now?
# [19:03] <danbeam> cheilmann: when's the new version coming?
# [19:03] <cheilmann> That question answers all my concerns about it :)
# [19:03] <danbeam> cheilmann: who presented at JSConf about it?
# [19:03] <danbeam> cheilmann: it's almost as bad as Yahoo! maps ... oh, too soon ...
# [19:04] <cheilmann> The media player came from the music team and was never under the control of YDN
# [19:04] <tw2113> fight fight fight! former yahoo employee vs still there employee
# [19:04] <tw2113> my money is on the german
# [19:04] <cheilmann> it is one of those "put that in and trust us it is magic"
# [19:04] <danbeam> cheilmann: there is a team of 5 in media working on it right now
# [19:04] <danbeam> cheilmann: I am one of them
# [19:04] <danbeam> cheilmann: there is constant support
# [19:05] <danbeam> cheilmann: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/yhoomediaplayer/messages
# [19:05] <tw2113> ogg support?
# [19:05] <moo-_-> or can I simply draw canvas on another canvas?
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# [19:05] <moo-_-> thx cheilmann
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# [19:05] <cheilmann> Smooth: http://yahoomediaplayer.wikia.com/wiki/Yahoo_Media_Player_Wiki
# [19:05] <danbeam> tw2113: on the backlog
# [19:05] <tw2113> good enough for me
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# [19:06] <danbeam> cheilmann: that's gone in a month or two
# [19:06] <danbeam> cheilmann: promise, ;)
# [19:06] <cheilmann> what the...
# [19:06] <cheilmann> is that hacked?
# [19:06] <cheilmann> you go to: https://developer.yahoo.com/everything.html
# [19:06] <cheilmann> then click on media
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# [19:07] <cheilmann> if you click the docs link you get to the wikia thing
# [19:07] <cheilmann> if you click the main link you go to
# [19:07] <cheilmann> http://developer.yahoo.com/mediaplayer/
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# [19:07] <cheilmann> so, how do I style this?
# [19:07] <danbeam> cheilmann: CSS
# [19:07] <danbeam> cheilmann: the new version is much more skinnable, though
# [19:07] <cheilmann> The first link is
# [19:07] <cheilmann> Please Visit http://4umusic.blogspot.com/
# [19:08] <cheilmann> which is a spam site
# [19:08] <danbeam> cheilmann: yup, wikia is a bigger pile of crap
# [19:08] <danbeam> cheilmann: lets you edit pages even though we've set perms
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# [19:08] <cheilmann> the developer build
# [19:08] <cheilmann> http://yahoomediaplayer.wikia.com/wiki/Developer_build
# [19:08] <danbeam> cheilmann: you don't have any access to internal Y! network anymore, right?
# [19:08] <cheilmann> clicks through to a minified JS
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# [19:09] <danbeam> it's a js file ...
# [19:09] <danbeam> ?
# [19:09] <cheilmann> I also like the photo of the naked dude on the wiki
# [19:09] <cheilmann> http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110130041812/yahoomediaplayer/images/e/ee/Picture_4.jpg
# [19:09] <cheilmann> why don't you just use github?
# [19:09] <danbeam> cheilmann: we're not open source
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# [19:09] <cheilmann> if it is open, that sounds like a plan
# [19:10] <danbeam> cheilmann: we're not licensed like that
# [19:10] <cheilmann> Right now following this clickpath seriously makes me think the player is malware
# [19:10] <cheilmann> I am not being facetious here.
# [19:10] <danbeam> cheilmann: right now following this conversation makes me think I liked you at one point, ;)
# [19:10] <danbeam> cheilmann: the doc is old
# [19:10] <danbeam> cheilmann: and hasn't been touched
# [19:11] <danbeam> cheilmann: because we don't have access
# [19:11] <cheilmann> The doc is the main thing people find when they are looking for information about the player
# [19:11] <danbeam> cheilmann: because the people before us were less than brilliant about using their own personal accounts
# [19:11] <cheilmann> Kill the link to the docs on YDN
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# [19:11] <cheilmann> at least that will not send people to a really embarassing site
# [19:11] <danbeam> cheilmann: working on it
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# [19:11] <cheilmann> I did like the simplicity of the player
# [19:12] <cheilmann> for blogs and stuff it is awesome
# [19:12] <danbeam> cheilmann: have you tried a majority of your isithackday.com links lately?
# [19:12] <danbeam> cheilmann: yes, that's the target market
# [19:12] <danbeam> cheilmann: it's also being used horizontally on various parts of Yahoo!
# [19:12] <cheilmann> Is there a wordpress plugin for it?
# [19:12] <danbeam> cheilmann: movies, music, news
# [19:12] <danbeam> cheilmann: yes
# [19:12] <cheilmann> that would be the place you should keep the docs
# [19:12] <danbeam> cheilmann: maintained (atm) by somebody 3rd party
# [19:13] <cheilmann> How is isithackday.com an official Yahoo web site?
# [19:13] <cheilmann> :)
# [19:13] <danbeam> it's not
# [19:13] <danbeam> but it's out and still doesn't work
# [19:13] <tw2113> my evening project last night https://github.com/tw2113/Twitter-Hashtag-Dashboard
# [19:13] <danbeam> wikia is not an official Y! site
# [19:13] <danbeam> cheilmann: we're going to have alot of stuff coming out soon (in very short time Y! internally, slightly longer for external)
# [19:13] <tw2113> random whoring :D
# [19:13] <cheilmann> but it is linked from one as the main docs
# [19:13] <danbeam> cheilmann: you used to work there
# [19:14] <danbeam> cheilmann: and it's been wrong for years, ;)
# [19:14] <danbeam> cheilmann: I just can't tell you about it anymore as you don't work at Yahoo!, otherwise I would
# [19:14] <cheilmann> Because the media player was never part of YDN :)
# [19:14] <danbeam> cheilmann: yup
# [19:14] <cheilmann> which is the problem
# [19:14] <danbeam> cheilmann: it was mildly associated at best
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# [19:14] <danbeam> cheilmann: it's more of a product than a developer tool
# [19:14] <cheilmann> this should not be in public, I agree, Sorry about the rant.
# [19:14] <danbeam> cheilmann: it's all good
# [19:15] <danbeam> cheilmann: I had the same rant when I came on to the project
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# [19:15] <danbeam> cheilmann: trust me
# [19:15] <danbeam> cheilmann: it resulted in change, but isn't quite out yet
# [19:15] <cheilmann> For starters it should not always be flash :)
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# [19:28] <tw2113> it got too quiet in here
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# [19:31] <cheilmann> pillow fight!
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# [19:32] <tw2113> we're a bunch of dudes, maybe later
# [19:32] * thatryan stuffs bricks into pillow case *hehe
# [19:32] * tw2113 stuffs his pillow with copies of windows vista and IE6
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# [20:09] <dgathright> cheilmann danbeam: Nerd fight!!!
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# [20:11] <cheilmann> we made up outside the channel
# [20:11] <cheilmann> it is getting quite cozy
# [20:11] <cylentwolf> awww
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# [20:14] <tw2113> that way they could discuss yahoo stuff away from outsiders
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# [20:18] <cheilmann> Same frustrations, really :)
# [20:19] <dgathright> I d/c'd mid-way through the YMP discussion and don't know how it ended. I'll just choose to believe that they settled it over a greco roman wrestling match while wearing purple & orange unitards.
# [20:20] * JKarsrud1 is now known as JKarsrud
# [20:20] <cgcardona> Who's gonna help me get this onto the front page of Hacker News? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2675287 ;)
# [20:20] <danbeam> greco roman wrestling + slathered in oil
# [20:20] <cheilmann> we agreed that the tool is good for its purpose and that the docs right now are a problem
# [20:21] <cheilmann> I would also love to see the new player :)
# [20:21] <danbeam> cheilmann: you will, soon
# [20:21] <nimbu> i will cgcardona when you make it cross browser
# [20:21] <cheilmann> oh, oil!
# [20:21] * cheilmann puts away the kiddie pool full of jell-o
# [20:21] <danbeam> cgcardona: p.s. cross browser to nimbu means Opera
# [20:21] <dgathright> Jell-o? Y NO KY?!?
# [20:21] * tw2113 lols
# [20:21] <nimbu> danbeam: no MS and FF too
# [20:21] <danbeam> nimbu: ah, :)
# [20:22] <tw2113> i upboated it anyway
# [20:22] <tw2113> cause i like cgcardona as a person
# [20:22] <cgcardona> nimbu: fair enough. That is the next step honestly :) Not sure about the state of audio in opera though. Need to do some research
# [20:22] <danbeam> dgathright: KY is shitty, btw
# [20:22] <nimbu> ?g dev.opera audio player @ cgcardona
# [20:22] <dgathright> only if being used for..... wait, nevermind
# [20:22] <bot-t> cgcardona, An HTML5 <audio> radio player - Dev.Opera - http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/html5-audio-radio-player/
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# [20:22] <danbeam> dgathright: ;)
# [20:23] <cgcardona> nimbu: thanks
# [20:23] <tw2113> i think it's almost time to go home and dive head first into a static site i need to markup
# [20:23] <cgcardona> yeah i just need to do some feature detection and serve the correct code up to the right browser
# [20:23] <nimbu> did you really say that cgcardona :X
# [20:24] <nimbu> oh feature detection
# [20:24] <nimbu> carry on
# [20:24] <cgcardona> you read "browser?"
# [20:24] <nimbu> i shall reserve my outrage for web reflections.
# [20:24] <nimbu> YES
# [20:24] <cgcardona> :D
# [20:24] <nimbu> too much outrage occurring right now on the internet.
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# [20:24] <tw2113> nimbu is about to break out the nim-fu and kick some ass
# [20:24] <cgcardona> http://goo.gl/bCdrg
# [20:25] <nimbu> :)
# [20:25] <cgcardona> made the front page of hacker news!
# [20:25] <cgcardona> :) thanks y'all
# [20:25] <tw2113> probably mine first just because i'm a smartass
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# [20:25] <tw2113> bbs
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# [20:26] <Thasmo> Does anyone know how modernizr works under chrome frame in IE? It seems modernizr does feature detection based on IE features. Am I wrong?
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# [20:28] <Thasmo> paul_irish, you there? :D
# [20:29] <paul_irish> chrome frame is chrome
# [20:29] <paul_irish> so
# [20:29] <paul_irish> if cf is running you'll get chrome-like results
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# [20:30] <Thasmo> paul_irish, can I check if chrome frame is rendering the page instead of IE?
# [20:30] <paul_irish> hmmmm
# [20:30] <paul_irish> you can check the ua
# [20:30] <paul_irish> or
# [20:30] <paul_irish> just right-click
# [20:32] <Thasmo> k - what should change if I right click?
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# [20:32] <Thasmo> context menu seems to be the samew.
# [20:35] <Thasmo> paul_irish, if i set the browser mode to "ie7" in the developer toolbar in ie9, modernizr sets the 'ie7' class on the html element. that shouldnt be, or?
# [20:36] <Thasmo> aw wait, I think I can remember something that the X-UA-... tag must be in the first some bytes, or chrome frame will ignore it .... thats maybe the reason it's not working ... lets chek this ...
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# [20:37] <danbeam> Thasmo: https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/blob/master/index.html#L12
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# [20:38] <paul_irish> ^^
# [20:38] <Thasmo> danbeam, thanks - I have that in - but probably not too far at the top, so it seems to be ignored.
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# [20:41] <Thasmo> k now this is working :D
# [20:42] <danbeam> Thasmo: you could probably also set this as a header server wide if you want to
# [20:42] <danbeam> Thasmo: but it depends on what you're hosting on your server
# [20:42] <Thasmo> danbeam, that's what I just did. And it works. :D
# [20:43] <danbeam> cool
# [20:43] <danbeam> paul_irish: no diff. on server-side X-UA-Compatible vs. with <meta> tag that you know of, right?
# [20:44] <nimbu> danbeam: https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/issues/378
# [20:44] <nimbu> server-side is best solution.
# [20:49] <danbeam> nimbu: cool
# [20:50] <danbeam> paul_irish: do you have any stats into what web servers H5BP site creators are using?
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# [20:51] <nimbu> ha we didnt ask that in the survey :/
# [20:51] <nimbu> should have.
# [20:51] <danbeam> nimbu: server headers
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# [20:51] <nimbu> danbeam: which server headers h5bp site creators are using?
# [20:51] <danbeam> nimbu: not as reliable, as you can have proxies in front and such
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# [20:51] <danbeam> nimbu: no, I mean just crawl all the sites
# [20:51] <nimbu> oh
# [20:51] <danbeam> nimbu: for headers
# [20:51] <danbeam> nimbu: which should give away the web server
# [20:52] <nimbu> no we dont have any means to know which sites use h5bp even :P paul_irish has an extensive regex google alert that helps cull some.
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# [20:52] <danbeam> nimbu: yes, grab the Server header from those domains
# [20:52] <danbeam> nimbu: IMO
# [20:53] <nimbu> i dont think we have ever done that.
# [20:53] <danbeam> nimbu: curl -I http://html5boilerplate.com 2>/dev/null | grep ^Server
# [20:53] <danbeam> nimbu: Server: Apache
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# [20:53] <danbeam> nimbu: you can turn these off and they vary
# [20:53] <nimbu> danbeam: I know that.
# [20:53] <danbeam> nimbu: but they're decently useful
# [20:54] <danbeam> nimbu: also, worst case, nmap -v -PN -p 80 domain.tld
# [20:54] <danbeam> nimbu: :P
# [20:54] <danbeam> nimbu: but that'd take a bit longer
# [20:54] <nimbu> but what would you gain with that info :/
# [20:54] <nimbu> to note who is using server side x-ua-compatible stuff?
# [20:54] <danbeam> nimbu: how many server configs you'd have to maintain
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# [20:54] <danbeam> nimbu: if 95% are using Apache, move to server-side with no fear, :P
# [20:55] <danbeam> nimbu: by editing 1 conf file
# [20:55] <nimbu> danbeam: yeah paul_irish has a separate repo for server side configs.
# [20:55] <danbeam> nimbu: I know
# [20:55] <nimbu> we only include .htaccess by default. yeah but we have not validated our assumption that apache is the most common server.
# [20:55] <danbeam> nimbu: word
# [20:56] <danbeam> nimbu: guess it's not all that hard to edit however many web server confs
# [20:56] <danbeam> nimbu: when you have a community behind you
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# [20:56] <nimbu> hehe
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# [21:00] <danbeam> cheilmann: unfortunate that we can't use something like jsmad already, right? definitely a future possibility, though
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# [21:13] <cheilmann> yeah the MP3 copyright stuff is annoying
# [21:13] <cheilmann> damn germans!
# [21:15] <grantg> heh
# [21:15] <grantg> jsmad devs beat me to it
# [21:16] <grantg> I had my own mp3 project on the side
# [21:16] <grantg> but it doesn't do realtime, just reencodes to a data uri of wav pcm
# [21:16] <grantg> hey cheilmann :)
# [21:16] <grantg> also
# [21:17] <grantg> lol @ jsmad devs saying they're stuck at 48 khz
# [21:17] <grantg> Resample in JS like me. :)
# [21:18] <snover> cheilmann: patents. not copyright.
# [21:19] <grantg> jsmad: Y U NO USE https://github.com/grantgalitz/XAudioJS ?
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# [21:19] <grantg> I have a flash audio fallback when moz audio and web audio aren't supported. :/
# [21:20] <grantg> and I resample for you, you just need to specify the sample rate you're working with. :)
# [21:20] <cheilmann> snover bollocks, bullshit - same annoyance :)
# [21:20] <cheilmann> hey grantg
# [21:20] <snover> cheilmann: if you want to be generic about it, complain about intellectual property
# [21:20] <snover> but they are not the same
# [21:20] <snover> not even particularly similar
# [21:21] <grantg> --> "Enable Web Audio API in 'about:flags' and relaunch the browser.
# [21:21] <grantg> Chrome forces a samplerate of 48000Hz, hence distortion."
# [21:21] <grantg> bulls**t
# [21:21] <grantg> resample in js
# [21:21] <cheilmann> yeah
# [21:21] <cheilmann> WHY YOU NO PUT THAT IN AS COMMENT? :)
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# [21:22] <grantg> heh
# [21:22] <snover> grantg: someone I know did an analysis of the jsmad code and was underwhelmed by the quality
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# [21:22] <snover> I’m not surprised you’re seeing the same
# [21:22] <grantg> Unlike jsmad at least I'm doing my own
# [21:22] <grantg> not a port
# [21:22] <cheilmann> snover, again - it is on github. Tell the makers.
# [21:22] <grantg> heh
# [21:23] <snover> grantg: also, didn’t see you when it happened, congratulations on getting an article on slashdot ;)
# [21:23] <grantg> oh
# [21:23] <grantg> thx
# [21:23] <cheilmann> It is an amazing feat of us as a community that we love to say "ours is better" but not provide feedback to the people who did it :)
# [21:23] <grantg> heheh
# [21:23] <grantg> I need to talk to whomever did audiolib
# [21:23] <miketaylr> "i know a guy who is underwhelmed by your codebase" isn't the best comment to leave on github
# [21:24] <snover> cheilmann: seeing as how I’m not the one that looked at it I’m not sure what sort of useful feedback I am supposed to provide other than …yeah, what miketaylr just said
# [21:24] <miketaylr> grantg, on the other hand... :P
# [21:25] <cheilmann> well, the cause of action then is to tell the guy you know to give people feedback
# [21:25] <cheilmann> otherwise people are blissfully unaware of their mistakes
# [21:25] <grantg> cheilmann: Have you noticed that V8 does setInterval wrong on Mac OS X
# [21:25] <cheilmann> and this is how things like Windows ME happens
# [21:25] <grantg> The V8 engine does timing interval set + 1
# [21:25] <grantg> for an average timing
# [21:26] <grantg> so if you set 16 ms, V8 targets 17 ms
# [21:26] <cheilmann> grantg: wasn't that buggered in almost every browser which is why for Canvas we did requestanimationframe?
# [21:26] <grantg> true
# [21:26] <miketaylr> oh man, i wish windows ME was on github
# [21:26] <grantg> Though
# [21:26] <miketaylr> i'd fork that
# [21:26] <grantg> requestanimationframe is also f**ked
# [21:26] <nimbu> hahahaa
# [21:26] <cheilmann> I remember John Resig's tests a few months ago
# [21:26] <grantg> glitches with it on firefox
# [21:27] <grantg> and the webkit version sometimes bugs out too
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# [21:30] <grantg> submitted
# [21:30] <grantg> heh
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# [21:30] * grantg wonders if FB is gonna approve http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=212033522168516
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# [21:32] <cheilmann> that so doesn't look like copyright infringement
# [21:32] <grantg> heheh
# [21:32] <grantg> I wonder if the audio works now in IE9
# [21:32] <grantg> I updated my flash fallback
# [21:32] <cheilmann> does it contain goldfish?
# [21:32] <cheilmann> otherwise it will never be native on windows
# [21:32] <grantg> what?
# [21:33] <grantg> what goldfish do you speak of?
# [21:33] <cheilmann> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/performance/fishbowl/default.html
# [21:34] <grantg> lol "native"
# [21:34] <grantg> all the gfx is computed in JS anyhow, only blitted to canvas.
# [21:34] <grantg> It has to
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# [21:34] <grantg> otherwise chrome and firefox would be 1 fps
# [21:35] <grantg> since canvas 2d has major bottlenecks
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# [21:40] <cheilmann> waiting for mr.doob's answers for "People of HTML5"
# [21:40] <cheilmann> shame he doesn't want any video interview
# [21:44] <grantg> heh
# [21:44] <grantg> It seems the jsmad author thinks resampling audio is too slow in JS
# [21:44] <grantg> the Gaussian algorithm probably, but he hasn't seen my algo. :P
# [21:45] <cheilmann> you keep it in your pensive?
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# [21:50] <cheilmann> It is pretty amazing that we don't need much photoshop any longer with CSS3
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# [21:50] <cheilmann> but then again, we need it for beautiful things like that:
# [21:50] <cheilmann> http://www.sadanduseless.com/2011/02/awfully-photoshopped-russian-wedding-pictures/
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# [22:08] <danbeam> cheilmann: saw those, pretty awesome
# [22:08] <danbeam> cheilmann: what's with the small groom in the bride's hand thing?
# [22:08] <cheilmann> some fetish
# [22:08] <cheilmann> :)
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# [22:09] <danbeam> cheilmann: lol
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# [23:25] <paul_irish> raise your hand if you already use line-height with unitless values
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# [23:25] <nimbu> raise your hand if you know what that means.
# [23:26] <swalk> raising my hand to both
# [23:26] * cylentwolf keeps his hand half raised
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# [23:32] <tw2113> what's line height?
# [23:32] <tw2113> *runs away*
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# Session Close: Tue Jun 21 00:00:00 2011

The end :)