/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-06-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jun 23 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:00] <LoneStar99> when using canvas and a new color eg. "#006699" is picked a drawing is completely colored in "#006699" ??
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  5. # [00:01] <LoneStar99> instead of keep previous color and only painting new lines in "#006699"?
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  13. # [00:10] <danbeam> what's the difference between WebRTC and web sockets?
  14. # [00:10] <danbeam> anybody know?
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  18. # [00:13] <snover> lots and lots?
  19. # [00:14] <danbeam> descriptive, ;)
  20. # [00:14] <ryanneufeld> Real Time Connection vs Socket?
  21. # [00:14] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: ya
  22. # [00:14] <ryanneufeld> conceptually, not sure
  23. # [00:14] <ryanneufeld> actually, no idea
  24. # [00:14] <ryanneufeld> lol
  25. # [00:14] <ryanneufeld> color me uselsess
  26. # [00:16] <snover> it’s sort of like asking what is the difference between jquery and xmlhttprequest
  27. # [00:17] <paul_irish> danbeam: webrtc is like.. you can build skype and tinychat and chatroulette in your browser with javascript
  28. # [00:17] <danbeam> snover: so one's just wrapping the other? ;)
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  30. # [00:18] <danbeam> paul_irish: can't do that with websockets? ?-?
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  32. # [00:18] <paul_irish> is websockets appropriate for video/audio data?
  33. # [00:18] <danbeam> have no idea
  34. # [00:18] <danbeam> it's just data, no?
  35. # [00:19] <danbeam> is XHR suitable for binary? well, you can ...
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  37. # [00:20] <paul_irish> it is now.
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  39. # [00:20] <paul_irish> now that you can XHR in buffers
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  43. # [00:22] <danbeam> yeah, it's much better now that you don't have to do bitwise hacks, but still not really seeing the difference between webrtc/websockets other than you're handling more specific types of media natively with WebRTC whereas you're doing just more generic stuff with web sockets (it seems like)
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  47. # [00:37] <paul_irish> ryanneufeld: "That was done by the talented Matt Ward. I passed the message on to him."
  48. # [00:37] <ryanneufeld> Cool, love how they get in the memes
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  77. # [01:21] <alisalaah> How do you do a complete video chat without flash, to access the computers webcam/mic and so on.
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  94. # [01:36] <thatryan> hows it going peoples
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  96. # [01:37] <tw2113> i may get to work sometime thatryan
  97. # [01:37] <thatryan> good for you
  98. # [01:37] <tw2113> including some new work for html email templates AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
  99. # [01:37] <thatryan> booo
  100. # [01:39] <tw2113> i get to go back to table layouts!
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  117. # [02:10] <paul_irish> "Indeed. For my users, I'm tempted to say "Sorry, I can't support Firefox because Firefox doesn't support Firefox", and switch them all over to Opera."
  118. # [02:10] <paul_irish> cc nimbu
  119. # [02:10] <paul_irish> from the thread where neckbeards proclaim they don't get FF's new versioning model http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/06/22/172229/No-Additional-Firefox-4-Security-Updates
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  123. # [02:11] <nimbu> o
  124. # [02:11] <paul_irish> i abs agree that FF needs to fix their addon versioning. and they needed to do that months ago
  125. # [02:11] <paul_irish> but w/e
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  129. # [02:25] <danbeam> paul_irish: yeah, addons developers are fucked
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  131. # [02:25] <danbeam> paul_irish: Mozilla has been really bad about giving a shit about them at all
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  133. # [02:26] <thatryan> danbeam: meaning the peeps who build addons are asses?
  134. # [02:26] <paul_irish> :/
  135. # [02:27] <danbeam> thatryan: heh, if you're thinking in Trey Parker/Matt Stone terms
  136. # [02:27] <thatryan> lol
  137. # [02:27] <thatryan> so, bi-winning ;)
  138. # [02:27] <danbeam> dual
  139. # [02:27] <danbeam> actually
  140. # [02:28] <danbeam> paul_irish: I'm still not sure there's a 64 bit SDK for OS X, but they just magically released FX4 for Mac as 64 bit
  141. # [02:28] <danbeam> so anything using C++ could be totally screwed
  142. # [02:29] <danbeam> I think some people here scraped together a .tgz off of some guys devbox
  143. # [02:29] <danbeam> to slap together FX4 support for various plugins
  144. # [02:29] <danbeam> and FX5 is already out!
  145. # [02:30] <danbeam> Mozilla is basically giving the finger to addon developers, IMO
  146. # [02:30] <danbeam> just my opinion, though
  147. # [02:30] <danbeam> not that of my employer or anyone else
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  189. # [04:19] <paul_irish> http://metafizzy.co/blog/frustrated-stuck-tired-defeated/ this was nice
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  193. # [04:28] <Eightamrock> paul_irish: David Desandro's site is great, really good use of css3 animations in the footer
  194. # [04:28] <paul_irish> amen
  195. # [04:28] <Eightamrock> Great developer
  196. # [04:28] <paul_irish> though those are transitions but i'll let it go
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  198. # [04:29] <Eightamrock> transitions**
  199. # [04:30] <Eightamrock> will IE9 support transitions?
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  201. # [04:32] <Eightamrock> NM, limited support for transforms, no support for transitions... whomp
  202. # [04:32] <miketaylr> IE10 will
  203. # [04:33] <danbeam> I feel like naming them transforms and transitions is confusing
  204. # [04:33] <danbeam> but I'm pedant
  205. # [04:33] <danbeam> I'm a pedant*
  206. # [04:34] <danbeam> (^^ proof)
  207. # [04:34] <paul_irish> why
  208. # [04:35] <danbeam> I always confuse the terms
  209. # [04:35] <danbeam> just sound the same
  210. # [04:35] <Eightamrock> as paul_irish pointed out I prefer to call it all animation, though pragmatically it doesn't make sense there are clear differences and needs for the nomenclature
  211. # [04:35] <danbeam> they are different in content
  212. # [04:35] <danbeam> but they sound the same
  213. # [04:36] <paul_irish> what
  214. # [04:36] <danbeam> plus transform is ambiguous, IMO
  215. # [04:36] <paul_irish> what?
  216. # [04:36] <paul_irish> ?slap danbeam
  217. # [04:36] * bot-t slaps danbeam around a bit with a large trout
  218. # [04:36] <danbeam> whatever
  219. # [04:36] <danbeam> I always get them confused
  220. # [04:36] <danbeam> plus CSS transitions are animated
  221. # [04:37] <danbeam> but they're not animations
  222. # [04:37] <paul_irish> you should go use these things
  223. # [04:37] <danbeam> iono, maybe as I find more uses for them I'll learn the difference
  224. # [04:37] <danbeam> yes
  225. # [04:37] <danbeam> that's the biggest issue, I haven't used them much
  226. # [04:37] <paul_irish> i know
  227. # [04:37] <danbeam> as I haven't seen the business case for them yet
  228. # [04:38] <paul_irish> hardware accellerated css bro
  229. # [04:38] <paul_irish> doing js animation in the DOM on mobile is slow as shit
  230. # [04:38] <paul_irish> needs to go on the GPU
  231. # [04:38] <paul_irish> thats where trans & trans shines
  232. # [04:38] <paul_irish> same on desktop
  233. # [04:39] <danbeam> I don't do mobile yet
  234. # [04:39] <paul_irish> bro
  235. # [04:39] <paul_irish> if i was op i would boot you right now
  236. # [04:40] <paul_irish> /kick danbeam come back when you've done trans & trans on mobile
  237. # [04:40] <danbeam> k
  238. # [04:41] <Eightamrock> Anything JS is extremely slow on mobile
  239. # [04:42] <danbeam> "trans & trans" <-- intentional trolling because of my ambiguity remark, lol?
  240. # [04:43] <danbeam> I get the perf. benefits for doing CSS transitions vs. JS animation, but when you don't support mobile and need to support IE6 with a team of 2, it gets pushed pretty low in the prio. list
  241. # [04:44] * Joins: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  242. # [04:44] * nimbupani is now known as nimbu
  243. # [04:44] <danbeam> paul_irish: but doesn't a CSS transition that affects a subtree (i.e. an change to an elment positioned other than fixed/absolute) still cause a reflow for every frame?
  244. # [04:44] <danbeam> a change*
  245. # [04:44] <danbeam> an element*
  246. # [04:45] <paul_irish> danbeam: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/3/transition/
  247. # [04:45] <paul_irish> uses css transitions if it can, falls back to js anim otherwise
  248. # [04:45] <paul_irish> oh and its Yahoo code. :p
  249. # [04:45] <paul_irish> danbeam: depends what you're transitioning.
  250. # [04:46] <paul_irish> transforms and opacity, background color, etc... no reflows
  251. # [04:46] <nimbu> in webkit he means
  252. # [04:46] <danbeam> can you cancel CSS transitions?
  253. # [04:46] <nimbu> depends on what u mean by cancel.
  254. # [04:46] <paul_irish> nimbu: whats webkit specific?
  255. # [04:46] <nimbu> transforms opacity
  256. # [04:46] <nimbu> i dunno if opacity is hw-accel in moz
  257. # [04:47] <danbeam> nimbu: I'm moving something from 0 to 1000px real slow, and I need to stop and reverse in the middle
  258. # [04:47] <paul_irish> right, might now be hwaccel but it shouldnt be causing reflows
  259. # [04:47] <paul_irish> just repaints
  260. # [04:47] <nimbu> o right like dat
  261. # [04:47] <nimbu> yah
  262. # [04:47] <danbeam> paul_irish: but I'm talking about size of an element
  263. # [04:47] <nimbu> srry i confuse two often
  264. # [04:47] <nimbu> danbeam: u can trigger another transition and stop current one from what spec tells
  265. # [04:48] <paul_irish> assuming its not fixed/abs .. and you're not using transform:scale(n)... eflows everywhere of course.
  266. # [04:48] <Eightamrock> paul_irish: Can I ask an off topic question, why do you define soft tabs as being the standard as opposed to normal tab spacing?
  267. # [04:48] <nimbu> loaded question
  268. # [04:48] * Eightamrock is reading the front end coding standard
  269. # [04:48] <paul_irish> on isobar?
  270. # [04:48] <Eightamrock> yeah
  271. # [04:49] <paul_irish> :/
  272. # [04:49] <danbeam> paul_irish: I think reflowing the sub-DOM is probably worse than setInterval(function(){el.style.top = ++i + 'px';}, 50);
  273. # [04:49] <paul_irish> those are all reflows bro
  274. # [04:50] <danbeam> paul_irish: I know
  275. # [04:50] <paul_irish> if its done with css then at least the browser can schedule multiple actions into a single reflow/repaint cycle
  276. # [04:50] <danbeam> paul_irish: I'm saying if a reflow is involved I can't see a huge gain of doing in CSS vs. JS
  277. # [04:50] <paul_irish> and give you a better frameframe
  278. # [04:51] <danbeam> paul_irish: it depends on how the UI & JS threads are implemented
  279. # [04:51] <danbeam> AFAIK
  280. # [04:51] <paul_irish> in fact, framerates always have the potential to best absolute best if you're using a declarative animation API
  281. # [04:51] <paul_irish> aka transitions, animations, or requestanimationframe
  282. # [04:52] <paul_irish> danbeam: of course it does.
  283. # [04:52] <danbeam> if it's just round robin UI -> JS -> UI -> JS then it'll always be better to use CSS, yeah
  284. # [04:52] <paul_irish> GOOD THEN
  285. # [04:52] <danbeam> haha
  286. # [04:52] <paul_irish> ttyl danny
  287. # [04:53] <danbeam> but if you're doing JS JS -> UI -> JS JS -> UI it's not flushing those JS style mutations anyways
  288. # [04:53] <danbeam> anyways, you're right that I need to use them more
  289. # [04:53] <nimbu> danbeam: srry i just jumped in but what are u trying to do anyway
  290. # [04:53] <danbeam> but there hasn't been an overwhelming need to yet, because I work on a product that doesn't care
  291. # [04:54] <danbeam> nimbu: paul_irish wants me to use CSS for everything so I'll understand the difference between transitions and transforms
  292. # [04:54] * danbeam inb4 moar rage
  293. # [04:54] <nimbu> danbeam: they confuse you too huh
  294. # [04:54] <nimbu> THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER danbeam!!!
  295. # [04:54] <danbeam> yup
  296. # [04:54] <nimbu> i got a preso u might wanna look
  297. # [04:54] <danbeam> hit me
  298. # [04:54] <nimbu> http://nimbu.in/txjs/
  299. # [04:55] <danbeam> nimbu: sweet, <marquee>s
  300. # [04:55] <nimbu> :))
  301. # [04:56] <danbeam> paul_irish: btw, I will check out using YUI transitions where it makes sense if it's low effort to drop in
  302. # [04:57] <paul_irish> there are a few libraries that do that
  303. # [04:57] <paul_irish> but in general creating a new API is better than trying to map an animate() api to transitions
  304. # [04:57] <paul_irish> thus why YUI transition exists
  305. # [04:57] <danbeam> yeah, I gotcha
  306. # [04:57] <danbeam> any of them Yahoo! or Google created? I'm guessing those are the only ones I'll be able to use in the near future
  307. # [04:57] <danbeam> (other than YUI)
  308. # [04:58] <paul_irish> no idea what closure has.
  309. # [04:58] <paul_irish> hahah
  310. # [04:58] <danbeam> fo sho
  311. # [04:58] <danbeam> they'll have something eventually
  312. # [04:58] <danbeam> or it'll get written for them
  313. # [04:58] <danbeam> :)
  314. # [05:01] * Quits: JoshManders (~Josh@unaffiliated/killswitch) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  315. # [05:02] <danbeam> nimbu: JS + requestAnimFrame is faster than css animation in slide28 for me (for now)
  316. # [05:02] <danbeam> nimbu: is it supposed to be a comparison?
  317. # [05:02] <nimbu> danbeam: yeah thats coz its not timed like the css animation!
  318. # [05:02] <nimbu> no its just supposed to be like "similarish"
  319. # [05:02] <danbeam> nimbu: ok
  320. # [05:03] <danbeam> nimbu: yeah, was wondering, didn't see calcs to try to make them the same tick time
  321. # [05:03] <nimbu> yeah :)
  322. # [05:03] <nimbu> i was too lazy
  323. # [05:03] <danbeam> ok
  324. # [05:03] <danbeam> haha
  325. # [05:03] <danbeam> 41.67 sec/tick in JS
  326. # [05:04] <danbeam> btw
  327. # [05:04] <nimbu> o i c
  328. # [05:04] <danbeam> I think...
  329. # [05:04] <nimbu> it depends on frequency with which requestAnimationFrame fires tho
  330. # [05:04] <danbeam> yeah, time in JS blows
  331. # [05:04] <nimbu> should be 60fps
  332. # [05:04] <nimbu> well reqAnimFrame does not >_> or is not supposed to
  333. # [05:04] <danbeam> ok
  334. # [05:04] <nimbu> its approx that in browsers that support rAF
  335. # [05:05] <danbeam> so if you wanted to do 240 iters in 10 sec
  336. # [05:05] <danbeam> how would you calc?
  337. # [05:05] <nimbu> u cant
  338. # [05:05] <danbeam> oh
  339. # [05:05] <nimbu> oh wait
  340. # [05:05] <danbeam> k
  341. # [05:05] <nimbu> u can
  342. # [05:05] <nimbu> coz that would be just 24 fps
  343. # [05:06] <danbeam> yeah, guess it is
  344. # [05:06] <nimbu> u gotta get new date and compare to old date and call ur call back if its time
  345. # [05:06] <nimbu> afaict
  346. # [05:06] <nimbu> otherwise just make a new rAF
  347. # [05:07] <nimbu> i think moz exposes time as a param for rAF? and webkit does not? i am not sure. paul_irish got a post which has links to deets
  348. # [05:08] <paul_irish> i think both impls pass in the time value as an arg now
  349. # [05:08] <paul_irish> mdc should have that info up to date
  350. # [05:08] <paul_irish> cuz i updated it
  351. # [05:08] <paul_irish> i think
  352. # [05:10] <danbeam> yeah, this is cool that how JavaScript handles time (as well as animations) is changing so much compared to the old model
  353. # [05:10] <danbeam> because +new Date kinda sucked
  354. # [05:10] <danbeam> and listening to jdalton talk about the issues with JSPerf, I'm glad there will be good stuff to take it's place soon
  355. # [05:11] <danbeam> or like paul_irish and nimbu have told me, why not skip JS all together, :)
  356. # [05:12] <nimbu> yeah thats an easier option if u have simple animations
  357. # [05:12] <danbeam> yup
  358. # [05:12] <danbeam> good preso, btw, too bad I didn't get to see it in person
  359. # [05:12] <danbeam> when I'm interested by just the slides I know it was good, :)
  360. # [05:13] <nimbu> danbeam: hahaha u did not get to see the entertainment at the en
  361. # [05:13] <nimbu> end*
  362. # [05:15] <danbeam> oh yeah, what happened?
  363. # [05:16] * Joins: shipit (~shipit@173-228-28-48.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  364. # [05:18] <nimbu> i think paul_irish would explain it better
  365. # [05:18] <nimbu> its too embarrassing
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  372. # [05:24] <paul_irish> i have no idea what happened
  373. # [05:24] * Quits: phishy (~jeff@c-71-192-162-156.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  374. # [05:24] <paul_irish> i think people applauded
  375. # [05:24] <paul_irish> sounds about right.
  376. # [05:26] <nimbu> orly
  377. # [05:26] <danbeam> haha
  378. # [05:27] <nimbu> anyway danbeam i tripped on the display connector and slides were off at the end and I also tripped again on the table cloth hanging off the edge of the table.
  379. # [05:27] <danbeam> oh, lol, rough
  380. # [05:27] <danbeam> were you hurt or just your pride?
  381. # [05:27] <nimbu> danbeam: it was just entertainment
  382. # [05:27] * Quits: crooooooow (~crooooooo@pool-71-245-182-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: crooooooow)
  383. # [05:28] <danbeam> haha
  384. # [05:28] <nimbu> i think there are videos
  385. # [05:28] <nimbu> or so I have heard
  386. # [05:28] <danbeam> nimbu: did you gladiator and ask the crowd if they were entained?
  387. # [05:28] <danbeam> lol
  388. # [05:28] <nimbu> please dont tell me when they are are out.
  389. # [05:28] <danbeam> haha
  390. # [05:29] <danbeam> I don't really wanna see my JSConf preso either, I was so tired and stressed from >_> various stupid twitter things <_< I had done earlier that day
  391. # [05:29] <danbeam> so I won't tell you about yours if you don't tell me about mine
  392. # [05:29] <danbeam> lol
  393. # [05:29] <nimbu> ohhh oops i was at JsConf actullly
  394. # [05:29] <nimbu> but didnt see most talks
  395. # [05:30] <danbeam> it's all good, I was up against the pistolslut
  396. # [05:30] * Joins: gabo2 (~gabo2@p76003-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  397. # [05:30] <danbeam> so naturally nobody came
  398. # [05:30] <danbeam> lol
  399. # [05:30] <nimbu> ohhh
  400. # [05:30] <nimbu> i almost like disrupted that talk.
  401. # [05:30] <nimbu> coz i couldnt control my laughter.
  402. # [05:30] * Quits: gabo2 (~gabo2@p76003-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
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  405. # [05:33] <tw2113> any of you brainiacs know why I'd suddenly be having "failed to load resource" issues with chrome? and is cache manifest possibly an issue with it?
  406. # [05:34] <paul_irish> she was amazing
  407. # [05:34] <paul_irish> tw2113: dunno
  408. # [05:35] * Joins: m1chael (~m1chael@ip68-9-58-51.ri.ri.cox.net)
  409. # [05:36] <tw2113> hmm, i think it may be just this one browser
  410. # [05:36] * Joins: Badababuba (~Badababub@nodester.com)
  411. # [05:36] <tw2113> i'm going to shrug it off for now
  412. # [05:39] <tw2113> bit more info and i can email this job application
  413. # [05:40] <Eightamrock> tw2113: where you applying?
  414. # [05:41] * Quits: skqr (~skqr@extwdig.dig.com) (Quit: Saionara, techies.)
  415. # [05:41] <tw2113> http://www.henkinschultz.com/
  416. # [05:41] * Joins: crooooooow (~crooooooo@pool-71-245-182-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net)
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  418. # [05:46] <tw2113> Eightamrock they need a web developer, and i think i'd be a good fit
  419. # [05:47] <Eightamrock> their menu is buggy, I hope they are hiring you to fix it
  420. # [05:48] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  421. # [05:48] <Eightamrock> tw2113: I think so my friend, good luck!
  422. # [05:48] * Quits: fcuk112_rw (~fcuk112_r@188-223-81-90.zone14.bethere.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  423. # [05:48] <Eightamrock> We should start a reference network.
  424. # [05:48] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  425. # [05:48] <tw2113> here's the posting http://posthaste.henkinschultz.com/2011/06/14/web-developer/
  426. # [05:49] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~rztjonath@50.9.188.24)
  427. # [05:50] <tw2113> i don't see anything that i lack 100% experience in
  428. # [05:50] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5B326EA9.dip.t-dialin.net)
  429. # [05:50] * danbeam is now known as danbeam_
  430. # [05:53] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5B326BF9.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  431. # [06:07] * Quits: vier (~Josh@b218-1.nat.uq.edu.au) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
  432. # [06:08] <Eightamrock> tw2113: when you interview just use big words scare them with your brain power
  433. # [06:09] <tw2113> any examples?
  434. # [06:11] * Joins: luchenbill (~gnome@shellium/member/unfunf)
  435. # [06:11] <ryanseddon> don't use big words they're probably looking for someone to be able to translate techy stuff to something they can understand
  436. # [06:12] <tw2113> from what i understand, they have enough people who are designers
  437. # [06:12] <tw2113> but they lack the developer half
  438. # [06:13] * Quits: thatryan (~thatryan@c-24-4-109-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  439. # [06:13] * Quits: Eightamrock (~Eightamro@c-98-221-151-72.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  440. # [06:13] <tw2113> so i wager a lot of WordPress theme creation, which i'm just fine with
  441. # [06:14] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245) (Quit: miketaylr)
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  448. # [06:17] <tw2113> the heck is up, thatryan ?
  449. # [06:17] <thatryan> tw2113: starting new codez to redo my site
  450. # [06:17] <thatryan> sup wit you
  451. # [06:18] <tw2113> i need to install WordPress somewhere soon and put a dummy frontpage up
  452. # [06:18] <tw2113> and i'm waiting for some info for who to address a cover letter to
  453. # [06:18] <tw2113> other than that, not much
  454. # [06:21] <thatryan> good times
  455. # [06:23] <tw2113> how old are you thatryan if i may ask
  456. # [06:26] <thatryan> ill be 32 next month
  457. # [06:26] * Quits: jeffszusz (~jeffszusz@66.11.186.38) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  458. # [06:27] <tw2113> you'll be old enough to remember the TMNT concert tour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMNT:_Coming_Out_of_Their_Shells#Concert_tour
  459. # [06:27] <thatryan> lmao
  460. # [06:27] <thatryan> oh my
  461. # [06:28] <tw2113> the worst part? i found a torrent for the recorded concert, and am watching it
  462. # [06:28] <thatryan> get to work
  463. # [06:29] <tw2113> noooo
  464. # [06:30] * Quits: Ali- (~Ali@ip98-169-20-230.dc.dc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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  467. # [06:32] * Joins: dspree (~dspree@unaffiliated/dspree)
  468. # [06:34] <tw2113> damn, they're already stopping security update support for Fx4
  469. # [06:34] * Joins: jeffszusz (~jeffszusz@66.11.186.38)
  470. # [06:40] <ryanseddon> They want you to forget about versions
  471. # [06:40] <ryanseddon> it's gonna be versionless from 5 and background updates, like chrome
  472. # [06:45] <tw2113> i like the background updates
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  485. # [07:18] <tw2113> what code thatryan ?
  486. # [07:18] * Joins: Ankheg (~Ankheg@fs91-201-3-30.dubna-net.ru)
  487. # [07:19] <thatryan> my site
  488. # [07:19] <tw2113> what you trying to make it do?
  489. # [07:20] <thatryan> nothing, just rebuilding
  490. # [07:20] <thatryan> blank mind
  491. # [07:20] <tw2113> no comment
  492. # [07:23] <thatryan> lol
  493. # [07:23] <tw2113> unset['mind']
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  495. # [07:42] <littlebearz> :P
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  497. # [07:48] <tw2113> thatryan http://maqueapp.com/
  498. # [07:49] <tw2113> i just found it interesting and know you're at your computer
  499. # [07:49] <thatryan> oohh neato
  500. # [07:49] <thatryan> thanks yo
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  528. # [08:46] <paul_irish> now reading:
  529. # [08:46] <paul_irish> http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2011/06/21/The-faster-release-process-of-Firefox
  530. # [08:46] <paul_irish> http://mike.kaply.com/2011/06/21/firefox-rapid-release-process/
  531. # [08:46] <paul_irish> http://mike.kaply.com/2011/06/23/understanding-the-corporate-impact/
  532. # [08:46] <paul_irish> in succession.
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  534. # [08:48] <paul_irish> poor mozilla. why they get so much heat for something that works very well for chrome is like... just a huge bummer
  535. # [08:48] <ryanseddon> because they're not google?
  536. # [08:49] <tw2113> because they used to be netscape?
  537. # [08:49] <ryanseddon> Sound like a bunch of complainers to me
  538. # [08:49] <nimbu> ryanseddon: !!!
  539. # [08:49] <nimbu> i am asking u questions
  540. # [08:49] <paul_irish> http://mozilla.github.com/process-releases/draft/development_specifics/
  541. # [08:49] <tw2113> whaaaaaaaa they're giving me more cool new shit too fast!
  542. # [08:49] <paul_irish> all these developers who are NOT web developers are bitching that this is bad for web developers
  543. # [08:49] <paul_irish> stab stab.
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  546. # [08:52] <paul_irish> http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2011/06/21/The-faster-release-process-of-Firefox#c15219 this comment is something ive been thinking of for the shitty IE intranet audience
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  549. # [08:55] <paul_irish> also didnt linus just declare the kernel gets a similar versioning scheme
  550. # [08:58] <tw2113> i am loving the background update stuff
  551. # [09:02] <niftylettuce> :-)
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  553. # [09:02] <niftylettuce> quick question, do any of us find time to sleep?
  554. # [09:02] <niftylettuce> tw2113: sup dood
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  556. # [09:03] <niftylettuce> sprite cow rox btw
  557. # [09:04] <tw2113> sleep?
  558. # [09:05] <tw2113> niftylettuce i just launched a WordPress site with a very static front page for the moment
  559. # [09:05] <tw2113> no links going to or from it
  560. # [09:05] <tw2113> mostly from it, but it looks awesome so far
  561. # [09:06] <tw2113> i should probably consider sleep soon because i have family visiting tomorrow
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  566. # [09:11] <niftylettuce> tw2113: yea i got a 9am meeting then gotta drive 3 hours and then another mtg :'(
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  568. # [09:14] <ryanseddon> faster background updates of browsers is a massive win for developers, I can use the new shit sooner
  569. # [09:14] <tw2113> ha! "corporations cannot follow that speed"
  570. # [09:15] <tw2113> they haven't been able to follow the speed for a decade because they built shit on IE6 specifically
  571. # [09:15] <ryanseddon> corps are still holding onto IE6, they can go die
  572. # [09:15] <ryanseddon> I just finished work on a corp site that has been going for almost 2 years, that's considered fast for them
  573. # [09:16] <tw2113> "Web authors will have to sniff even more browser versions"
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  575. # [09:16] <ryanseddon> :S which article is that from?
  576. # [09:16] <tw2113> to me, that's still called feature sniffing and provide fallback when X feature isn't supported
  577. # [09:16] <tw2113> http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2011/06/21/The-faster-release-process-of-Firefox
  578. # [09:17] <tw2113> the thing that made the most sense to me was his tiny update at the bottom, related to add-on authors
  579. # [09:17] <ryanseddon> I just updated my add-on to have maxVersion set to *
  580. # [09:18] <ryanseddon> problem fixed
  581. # [09:18] <ryanseddon> until it breaks but whatever
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  585. # [09:27] <tw2113> awww, Fx5 doesn't have -moz-text-decoration-color yet
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  697. # [13:14] <jetienne> q. is there a way to bind all events from a given dom elements ? without knowing their name i mean. like element.addEventListener("*", function(){})
  698. # [13:14] <skylamer`> if the thing on " " is css may be it is
  699. # [13:15] <jetienne> skylamer`: ? i was talking about event like "click" or "canplaythru" or "keypress"
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  701. # [13:15] <skylamer`> i dont know :)
  702. # [13:15] <jetienne> no css close... or i misunderstanding something :)
  703. # [13:16] <jetienne> ok :)
  704. # [13:17] <mokush_> anyone documented support for window.opener?
  705. # [13:18] <mokush_> jetienne: why would you want to do such a thing?
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  707. # [13:18] <jetienne> mokush_: to see which event is triggered and in which order
  708. # [13:19] <mokush_> jetienne: are you manualy triggering anything?
  709. # [13:20] <jetienne> mokush_: potentially i launch a <audio> via controls with the mouse
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  712. # [13:21] <mokush_> jetienne: the media events elements have the play event, you can use that
  713. # [13:21] <jetienne> mokush_: we are drifting. i want to bind all events wwithout knowing about them
  714. # [13:22] <jetienne> if the <audio> tag was working as expected, i would not need that :)
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  717. # [13:23] <mokush_> jetienne: well you can use something like a for loop to get all the properties of the element and create an array with that
  718. # [13:23] <jetienne> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/using_audio_and_video_in_firefox <- current solution is to copy all those events, and bind them by hand
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  725. # [13:23] <jetienne> and hope other browsers doesnt implement others event names
  726. # [13:24] <mokush_> jetienne: but make sure there's no other properties added by a , for ex., jquery
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  728. # [13:24] <jetienne> mokush_: i think we are a miscommunication here
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  732. # [13:28] <mokush_> jetienne: something like this, but you'll need a way to differenciate between properties. http://jsfiddle.net/GqtYw/4/
  733. # [13:31] <jetienne> mokush_: this is the current 'solution' of what im trying to do. http://pastebin.com/pEwbBVeV
  734. # [13:31] <jetienne> mokush_: as you can see, we are not talking about the same thing :)
  735. # [13:31] <jetienne> i look for a way to bind all events from a given dom elements ? without knowing their name i mean. like element.addEventListener("*", function(){})
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  787. # [15:30] <tbassett> hi. do you know who's behind the @html5 account on Twitter? :)
  788. # [15:31] <dr0id> I am
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  791. # [15:37] <plh_> tbassett, it's more than one individual
  792. # [15:38] <dr0id> funny
  793. # [15:38] <dr0id> @html6-10 all booked
  794. # [15:38] <dr0id> couldn't view after 10 cause twitter is hanging my chrome :/
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  808. # [16:07] <alisalaah> http://html11.org/
  809. # [16:08] <skylamer`> йьйьйьйьйь
  810. # [16:08] <skylamer`> :D)_
  811. # [16:08] <alisalaah> i -think- they have @html11 aswell
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  824. # [16:20] <ManBG> Where I can found web sites written in HTML ?
  825. # [16:20] <ManBG> I mean: List of html sites ?
  826. # [16:21] <Wilto> ...Google.com?
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  828. # [16:21] <ManBG> Wilto google but most sites are on php :)
  829. # [16:21] <Ms2ger> Php outputs HTML
  830. # [16:22] <moo-_-> PHP is a drug
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  837. # [16:38] <alisalaah> drugs are good
  838. # [16:38] <alisalaah> drugs save lives
  839. # [16:39] <ManBG> not really
  840. # [16:39] <ManBG> :D
  841. # [16:39] <alisalaah> Java = crack, heroine, etc
  842. # [16:39] <alisalaah> PHP = antibiotics
  843. # [16:39] <moo-_-> I thought Java was coffee
  844. # [16:39] <alisalaah> i meant good drugs not "bad" drugs
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  864. # [17:05] <akshay> Hi, I want to know can I use canvas today without fearing that specifications might change later one and may break my code. After all, Canvas is still under "Working Draft"
  865. # [17:06] <Ms2ger> Canvas won't change significantly
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  867. # [17:06] <Ms2ger> Once something has been implemented and shipped by multiple browsers, it's pretty much frozen
  868. # [17:07] <akshay> But as per this link Working Draft means that specs may change: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W3C_recommendation
  869. # [17:07] <moo-_-> akshay: of course it may change
  870. # [17:07] <moo-_-> akshay: browsers will change in any case
  871. # [17:07] <moo-_-> akshay: are you living in a stable world or what? :)
  872. # [17:08] <moo-_-> akshay: I suggest you target IE 5.5 :)
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  874. # [17:09] <Ms2ger> akshay, the stage in the W3C process doesn't really matter
  875. # [17:10] <akshay> moo-_-: . If I write some code today I want it to keep working even in browsers that come 3-4 years later. I can be sure about HTML4.01 code but not about something which is in working draft
  876. # [17:10] <Ms2ger> akshay, there have been major changes to published recommendations, because they didn't match browsers
  877. # [17:10] <Ms2ger> You can't be sure about HTML4, actually
  878. # [17:10] <moo-_-> akshay: no, you want to sell a high priced support contract which covers possible changes in the future and you will build only against a known browsers
  879. # [17:10] <moo-_-> otherwise your life does not make sense as a web developer
  880. # [17:11] <moo-_-> you can't keep it working unless you can see the future
  881. # [17:11] <akshay> Ms2ger: how ?
  882. # [17:11] <akshay> Ms2ger: I mean. Why?
  883. # [17:11] <Ms2ger> Because it didn't match browsers
  884. # [17:12] * psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|away
  885. # [17:13] <Ms2ger> The idea behind the W3C Process is that the W3C invents something, and browsers then implement it flawlessly
  886. # [17:14] <akshay> Ms2ger: ok
  887. # [17:14] <Ms2ger> But if what the W3C specifies can't be implemented in browsers without breaking a significant number of pages, the W3C will end up having to change
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  890. # [17:17] <moo-_-> Ms2ger: I thought it was that nothign becomes spefication unless there is two compatible implementations?
  891. # [17:17] <Ms2ger> moo-_-, that's the case now
  892. # [17:17] <Ms2ger> That wasn't true when HTML4 and CSS2.0 were published
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  918. # [17:55] <thatryan> could someone help me with a quick github question? :)
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  920. # [17:56] <Ms2ger> Not if you don't tell us what your question is
  921. # [17:57] <cylentwolf> ms2ger: you must guess it apparently
  922. # [17:57] <thatryan> hey all, I forked a repo, made some changes, then my pull request got merged, how can I "resync" my fork to the new master?
  923. # [17:57] <thatryan> :)
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  925. # [17:58] <moo-_-> thatryan: git pull new@master.address
  926. # [17:59] <thatryan> moo-_-: thanks, now what if my dumb ass did it all on github itself ;)
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  932. # [18:05] <moo-_-> http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/google-working-on-video-chat-for-chrome-skype-cowers-in-fear/
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  965. # [18:45] <alisalaah> www.aim.com/av is neat, but ofcourse in flash
  966. # [18:45] <alisalaah> sorry FLASH*
  967. # [18:46] <alisalaah> everyone always capitalizes it, i think just to mimic the annoyingness of it's existence
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  969. # [18:47] <JonathanNeal> hola
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  995. # [19:14] <paul_irish> Ms2ger: http://www.impressivewebs.com/html5-form-attribute/#comment-9273 can you help me understand the bugs contributing to that?
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  997. # [19:16] <Ms2ger> paul_irish, the fact that those annotations are updated manually
  998. # [19:17] <Ms2ger> Or rather, that they aren't
  999. # [19:18] <paul_irish> oh.
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  1001. # [19:18] <Ms2ger> There's been some talk about using caniuse.com's data
  1002. # [19:19] <paul_irish> he has a json feed i use in a few places.
  1003. # [19:19] <Ms2ger> Feel like writing a script to do that? :)
  1004. # [19:19] <paul_irish> :p
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  1044. # [20:06] <shichuan> anyone here used web workers on android 2.3 or ios 4.3 (not ios 5) before? from my testing, they are not yet supported right?
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  1047. # [20:10] <MikeSmith> workers not supported in iOS at all, I think
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  1049. # [20:11] <shichuan> MikeSmith: exactly
  1050. # [20:12] <shichuan> MikeSmith: here is an bizarre article: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/x-html5mobile4/index.html
  1051. # [20:12] <shichuan> when i test it, doesn't work an any major mobile browser
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  1053. # [20:12] <shichuan> only works on opera mobile and firefox mobile
  1054. # [20:12] <shichuan> nimbu: opera mobile FTW!
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  1056. # [20:13] <shichuan> MikeSmith: can't figure out how the screenshots were taken
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  1094. # [21:08] <alisalaah> I have a friend who works on a DoD contract and asked me if access to IRC would be considered a work appropriate request for access since they would have to allow him access to the ports needed, though I guess he could webchat like with Freenode's qwebirc.
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  1096. # [21:10] <alisalaah> But I told him he could make a decent case for it since they run Linux servers and use a lot of FOSS in his department and Freenode is a great resource for that stuff. He was concerned though that it would cause trouble asking for IRC access, has anyone here had to do that at a job?
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  1166. # [22:44] <twisted> paul_irish told me to ask a question I asked in #whatwg here so it's just a copy from there
  1167. # [22:44] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> yo
  1168. # [22:44] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> #ja-mainnav div.main div.ja-megamenu ul.megamenu li.active a:hover {
  1169. # [22:44] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> doesn't work
  1170. # [22:44] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> but
  1171. # [22:44] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> #ja-mainnav div.main div.ja-megamenu ul.megamenu li.active a {
  1172. # [22:45] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> does...
  1173. # [22:45] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> and I'm totally beat
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  1175. # [22:45] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> css validator gives me a lexicon error
  1176. # [22:45] <twisted> 22:34 < twisted> tried different encodings, (ascii, latin1, utf8 (default))
  1177. # [22:45] <twisted> also just tried deleting the file, making a new one, pasting it from a non-rtf capable editor
  1178. # [22:45] <twisted> tried vim, same problem :S
  1179. # [22:45] <twisted> https://h1890978.stratoserver.net:8443/sitepreview/http/aislings.nl/templates/aislings/css/menu/mega.css
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  1183. # [22:47] <twisted> even if I take the working line and edit it inside chrome it's suddenly *gone*
  1184. # [22:47] * CrashDiet_ is now known as CrashTest_
  1185. # [22:47] <paul_irish> does that selector need to be so long?
  1186. # [22:48] <twisted> tried it shorter
  1187. # [22:48] <twisted> still doesn't work
  1188. # [22:49] <twisted> just made it half the size, everything else still works
  1189. # [22:49] <paul_irish> twisted: i just ran it through the validator and had no errors.
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  1191. # [22:50] <twisted> paul_irish: still does not work
  1192. # [22:50] <twisted> you can refresh the .css file I posted
  1193. # [22:50] <twisted> selector is half the size now, same problem
  1194. # [22:50] <paul_irish> it's not a browser bug.
  1195. # [22:50] <twisted> well, :hover is pretty standard haha
  1196. # [22:51] <paul_irish> yes. something about your DOM doesnt match this selector
  1197. # [22:52] <twisted> ok then explain to me (sorry but I've been fighting with this for 2hours now) how come 'a' works but 'a:hover' doesn't
  1198. # [22:52] <twisted> same dom
  1199. # [22:53] <paul_irish> twisted: there is no change in those two rulesets
  1200. # [22:54] <paul_irish> you apply the same color and bold it again
  1201. # [22:54] <twisted> yeah
  1202. # [22:54] <twisted> I know
  1203. # [22:54] <twisted> when I join them with a , it doesn't work
  1204. # [22:54] <twisted> now it suddenly worked when I just have a:hover
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  1206. # [22:58] <twisted> found the bug
  1207. # [22:58] <twisted> thanks all
  1208. # [22:58] <twisted> it moves the a
  1209. # [22:58] <twisted> and it's not long enough
  1210. # [22:58] <twisted> but the whole lexicon error
  1211. # [22:58] <twisted> threw me off
  1212. # [22:58] <paul_irish> :)
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  1215. # [23:00] <danbeam_> howdy
  1216. # [23:00] * danbeam_ is now known as danbeam
  1217. # [23:01] <danbeam> anybody here still touch IE6?
  1218. # [23:01] <paul_irish> plenty do.
  1219. # [23:01] <paul_irish> http://piffle.abdoc.net/ <== new tool thing
  1220. # [23:01] <paul_irish> kinda neat
  1221. # [23:03] <danbeam> anybody know if AlphaImageLoader allow x-domain images?
  1222. # [23:05] <danbeam> allows*
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  1226. # [23:09] <danbeam> Nicole Sullivan thinks they don't (http://www.julienlecomte.net/blog/2007/07/4/#comment-300) but my tests disagree
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  1243. # [23:38] <paul_irish> danbeam: i agree with tests.
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  1246. # [23:39] <danbeam> paul_irish: ok
  1247. # [23:39] <danbeam> paul_irish: I DM'ed Nicole
  1248. # [23:39] <danbeam> paul_irish: I hope she agrees with us too
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  1264. # Session Close: Fri Jun 24 00:00:00 2011

The end :)