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- # Session Start: Thu Jun 23 00:00:00 2011
- # Session Ident: #html5
- # [00:00] <LoneStar99> when using canvas and a new color eg. "#006699" is picked a drawing is completely colored in "#006699" ??
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- # [00:01] <LoneStar99> instead of keep previous color and only painting new lines in "#006699"?
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- # [00:10] <danbeam> what's the difference between WebRTC and web sockets?
- # [00:10] <danbeam> anybody know?
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- # [00:13] <snover> lots and lots?
- # [00:14] <danbeam> descriptive, ;)
- # [00:14] <ryanneufeld> Real Time Connection vs Socket?
- # [00:14] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: ya
- # [00:14] <ryanneufeld> conceptually, not sure
- # [00:14] <ryanneufeld> actually, no idea
- # [00:14] <ryanneufeld> lol
- # [00:14] <ryanneufeld> color me uselsess
- # [00:16] <snover> it’s sort of like asking what is the difference between jquery and xmlhttprequest
- # [00:17] <paul_irish> danbeam: webrtc is like.. you can build skype and tinychat and chatroulette in your browser with javascript
- # [00:17] <danbeam> snover: so one's just wrapping the other? ;)
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- # [00:18] <danbeam> paul_irish: can't do that with websockets? ?-?
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- # [00:18] <paul_irish> is websockets appropriate for video/audio data?
- # [00:18] <danbeam> have no idea
- # [00:18] <danbeam> it's just data, no?
- # [00:19] <danbeam> is XHR suitable for binary? well, you can ...
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- # [00:20] <paul_irish> it is now.
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- # [00:20] <paul_irish> now that you can XHR in buffers
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- # [00:22] <danbeam> yeah, it's much better now that you don't have to do bitwise hacks, but still not really seeing the difference between webrtc/websockets other than you're handling more specific types of media natively with WebRTC whereas you're doing just more generic stuff with web sockets (it seems like)
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- # [00:37] <paul_irish> ryanneufeld: "That was done by the talented Matt Ward. I passed the message on to him."
- # [00:37] <ryanneufeld> Cool, love how they get in the memes
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- # [01:21] <alisalaah> How do you do a complete video chat without flash, to access the computers webcam/mic and so on.
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- # [01:36] <thatryan> hows it going peoples
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- # [01:37] <tw2113> i may get to work sometime thatryan
- # [01:37] <thatryan> good for you
- # [01:37] <tw2113> including some new work for html email templates AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
- # [01:37] <thatryan> booo
- # [01:39] <tw2113> i get to go back to table layouts!
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- # [02:10] <paul_irish> "Indeed. For my users, I'm tempted to say "Sorry, I can't support Firefox because Firefox doesn't support Firefox", and switch them all over to Opera."
- # [02:10] <paul_irish> cc nimbu
- # [02:10] <paul_irish> from the thread where neckbeards proclaim they don't get FF's new versioning model http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/06/22/172229/No-Additional-Firefox-4-Security-Updates
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- # [02:11] <nimbu> o
- # [02:11] <paul_irish> i abs agree that FF needs to fix their addon versioning. and they needed to do that months ago
- # [02:11] <paul_irish> but w/e
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- # [02:25] <danbeam> paul_irish: yeah, addons developers are fucked
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- # [02:25] <danbeam> paul_irish: Mozilla has been really bad about giving a shit about them at all
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- # [02:26] <thatryan> danbeam: meaning the peeps who build addons are asses?
- # [02:26] <paul_irish> :/
- # [02:27] <danbeam> thatryan: heh, if you're thinking in Trey Parker/Matt Stone terms
- # [02:27] <thatryan> lol
- # [02:27] <thatryan> so, bi-winning ;)
- # [02:27] <danbeam> dual
- # [02:27] <danbeam> actually
- # [02:28] <danbeam> paul_irish: I'm still not sure there's a 64 bit SDK for OS X, but they just magically released FX4 for Mac as 64 bit
- # [02:28] <danbeam> so anything using C++ could be totally screwed
- # [02:29] <danbeam> I think some people here scraped together a .tgz off of some guys devbox
- # [02:29] <danbeam> to slap together FX4 support for various plugins
- # [02:29] <danbeam> and FX5 is already out!
- # [02:30] <danbeam> Mozilla is basically giving the finger to addon developers, IMO
- # [02:30] <danbeam> just my opinion, though
- # [02:30] <danbeam> not that of my employer or anyone else
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- # [04:19] <paul_irish> http://metafizzy.co/blog/frustrated-stuck-tired-defeated/ this was nice
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- # [04:28] <Eightamrock> paul_irish: David Desandro's site is great, really good use of css3 animations in the footer
- # [04:28] <paul_irish> amen
- # [04:28] <Eightamrock> Great developer
- # [04:28] <paul_irish> though those are transitions but i'll let it go
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- # [04:29] <Eightamrock> transitions**
- # [04:30] <Eightamrock> will IE9 support transitions?
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- # [04:32] <Eightamrock> NM, limited support for transforms, no support for transitions... whomp
- # [04:32] <miketaylr> IE10 will
- # [04:33] <danbeam> I feel like naming them transforms and transitions is confusing
- # [04:33] <danbeam> but I'm pedant
- # [04:33] <danbeam> I'm a pedant*
- # [04:34] <danbeam> (^^ proof)
- # [04:34] <paul_irish> why
- # [04:35] <danbeam> I always confuse the terms
- # [04:35] <danbeam> just sound the same
- # [04:35] <Eightamrock> as paul_irish pointed out I prefer to call it all animation, though pragmatically it doesn't make sense there are clear differences and needs for the nomenclature
- # [04:35] <danbeam> they are different in content
- # [04:35] <danbeam> but they sound the same
- # [04:36] <paul_irish> what
- # [04:36] <danbeam> plus transform is ambiguous, IMO
- # [04:36] <paul_irish> what?
- # [04:36] <paul_irish> ?slap danbeam
- # [04:36] * bot-t slaps danbeam around a bit with a large trout
- # [04:36] <danbeam> whatever
- # [04:36] <danbeam> I always get them confused
- # [04:36] <danbeam> plus CSS transitions are animated
- # [04:37] <danbeam> but they're not animations
- # [04:37] <paul_irish> you should go use these things
- # [04:37] <danbeam> iono, maybe as I find more uses for them I'll learn the difference
- # [04:37] <danbeam> yes
- # [04:37] <danbeam> that's the biggest issue, I haven't used them much
- # [04:37] <paul_irish> i know
- # [04:37] <danbeam> as I haven't seen the business case for them yet
- # [04:38] <paul_irish> hardware accellerated css bro
- # [04:38] <paul_irish> doing js animation in the DOM on mobile is slow as shit
- # [04:38] <paul_irish> needs to go on the GPU
- # [04:38] <paul_irish> thats where trans & trans shines
- # [04:38] <paul_irish> same on desktop
- # [04:39] <danbeam> I don't do mobile yet
- # [04:39] <paul_irish> bro
- # [04:39] <paul_irish> if i was op i would boot you right now
- # [04:40] <paul_irish> /kick danbeam come back when you've done trans & trans on mobile
- # [04:40] <danbeam> k
- # [04:41] <Eightamrock> Anything JS is extremely slow on mobile
- # [04:42] <danbeam> "trans & trans" <-- intentional trolling because of my ambiguity remark, lol?
- # [04:43] <danbeam> I get the perf. benefits for doing CSS transitions vs. JS animation, but when you don't support mobile and need to support IE6 with a team of 2, it gets pushed pretty low in the prio. list
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- # [04:44] * nimbupani is now known as nimbu
- # [04:44] <danbeam> paul_irish: but doesn't a CSS transition that affects a subtree (i.e. an change to an elment positioned other than fixed/absolute) still cause a reflow for every frame?
- # [04:44] <danbeam> a change*
- # [04:44] <danbeam> an element*
- # [04:45] <paul_irish> danbeam: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/3/transition/
- # [04:45] <paul_irish> uses css transitions if it can, falls back to js anim otherwise
- # [04:45] <paul_irish> oh and its Yahoo code. :p
- # [04:45] <paul_irish> danbeam: depends what you're transitioning.
- # [04:46] <paul_irish> transforms and opacity, background color, etc... no reflows
- # [04:46] <nimbu> in webkit he means
- # [04:46] <danbeam> can you cancel CSS transitions?
- # [04:46] <nimbu> depends on what u mean by cancel.
- # [04:46] <paul_irish> nimbu: whats webkit specific?
- # [04:46] <nimbu> transforms opacity
- # [04:46] <nimbu> i dunno if opacity is hw-accel in moz
- # [04:47] <danbeam> nimbu: I'm moving something from 0 to 1000px real slow, and I need to stop and reverse in the middle
- # [04:47] <paul_irish> right, might now be hwaccel but it shouldnt be causing reflows
- # [04:47] <paul_irish> just repaints
- # [04:47] <nimbu> o right like dat
- # [04:47] <nimbu> yah
- # [04:47] <danbeam> paul_irish: but I'm talking about size of an element
- # [04:47] <nimbu> srry i confuse two often
- # [04:47] <nimbu> danbeam: u can trigger another transition and stop current one from what spec tells
- # [04:48] <paul_irish> assuming its not fixed/abs .. and you're not using transform:scale(n)... eflows everywhere of course.
- # [04:48] <Eightamrock> paul_irish: Can I ask an off topic question, why do you define soft tabs as being the standard as opposed to normal tab spacing?
- # [04:48] <nimbu> loaded question
- # [04:48] * Eightamrock is reading the front end coding standard
- # [04:48] <paul_irish> on isobar?
- # [04:48] <Eightamrock> yeah
- # [04:49] <paul_irish> :/
- # [04:49] <danbeam> paul_irish: I think reflowing the sub-DOM is probably worse than setInterval(function(){el.style.top = ++i + 'px';}, 50);
- # [04:49] <paul_irish> those are all reflows bro
- # [04:50] <danbeam> paul_irish: I know
- # [04:50] <paul_irish> if its done with css then at least the browser can schedule multiple actions into a single reflow/repaint cycle
- # [04:50] <danbeam> paul_irish: I'm saying if a reflow is involved I can't see a huge gain of doing in CSS vs. JS
- # [04:50] <paul_irish> and give you a better frameframe
- # [04:51] <danbeam> paul_irish: it depends on how the UI & JS threads are implemented
- # [04:51] <danbeam> AFAIK
- # [04:51] <paul_irish> in fact, framerates always have the potential to best absolute best if you're using a declarative animation API
- # [04:51] <paul_irish> aka transitions, animations, or requestanimationframe
- # [04:52] <paul_irish> danbeam: of course it does.
- # [04:52] <danbeam> if it's just round robin UI -> JS -> UI -> JS then it'll always be better to use CSS, yeah
- # [04:52] <paul_irish> GOOD THEN
- # [04:52] <danbeam> haha
- # [04:52] <paul_irish> ttyl danny
- # [04:53] <danbeam> but if you're doing JS JS -> UI -> JS JS -> UI it's not flushing those JS style mutations anyways
- # [04:53] <danbeam> anyways, you're right that I need to use them more
- # [04:53] <nimbu> danbeam: srry i just jumped in but what are u trying to do anyway
- # [04:53] <danbeam> but there hasn't been an overwhelming need to yet, because I work on a product that doesn't care
- # [04:54] <danbeam> nimbu: paul_irish wants me to use CSS for everything so I'll understand the difference between transitions and transforms
- # [04:54] * danbeam inb4 moar rage
- # [04:54] <nimbu> danbeam: they confuse you too huh
- # [04:54] <nimbu> THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER danbeam!!!
- # [04:54] <danbeam> yup
- # [04:54] <nimbu> i got a preso u might wanna look
- # [04:54] <danbeam> hit me
- # [04:54] <nimbu> http://nimbu.in/txjs/
- # [04:55] <danbeam> nimbu: sweet, <marquee>s
- # [04:55] <nimbu> :))
- # [04:56] <danbeam> paul_irish: btw, I will check out using YUI transitions where it makes sense if it's low effort to drop in
- # [04:57] <paul_irish> there are a few libraries that do that
- # [04:57] <paul_irish> but in general creating a new API is better than trying to map an animate() api to transitions
- # [04:57] <paul_irish> thus why YUI transition exists
- # [04:57] <danbeam> yeah, I gotcha
- # [04:57] <danbeam> any of them Yahoo! or Google created? I'm guessing those are the only ones I'll be able to use in the near future
- # [04:57] <danbeam> (other than YUI)
- # [04:58] <paul_irish> no idea what closure has.
- # [04:58] <paul_irish> hahah
- # [04:58] <danbeam> fo sho
- # [04:58] <danbeam> they'll have something eventually
- # [04:58] <danbeam> or it'll get written for them
- # [04:58] <danbeam> :)
- # [05:01] * Quits: JoshManders (~Josh@unaffiliated/killswitch) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
- # [05:02] <danbeam> nimbu: JS + requestAnimFrame is faster than css animation in slide28 for me (for now)
- # [05:02] <danbeam> nimbu: is it supposed to be a comparison?
- # [05:02] <nimbu> danbeam: yeah thats coz its not timed like the css animation!
- # [05:02] <nimbu> no its just supposed to be like "similarish"
- # [05:02] <danbeam> nimbu: ok
- # [05:03] <danbeam> nimbu: yeah, was wondering, didn't see calcs to try to make them the same tick time
- # [05:03] <nimbu> yeah :)
- # [05:03] <nimbu> i was too lazy
- # [05:03] <danbeam> ok
- # [05:03] <danbeam> haha
- # [05:03] <danbeam> 41.67 sec/tick in JS
- # [05:04] <danbeam> btw
- # [05:04] <nimbu> o i c
- # [05:04] <danbeam> I think...
- # [05:04] <nimbu> it depends on frequency with which requestAnimationFrame fires tho
- # [05:04] <danbeam> yeah, time in JS blows
- # [05:04] <nimbu> should be 60fps
- # [05:04] <nimbu> well reqAnimFrame does not >_> or is not supposed to
- # [05:04] <danbeam> ok
- # [05:04] <nimbu> its approx that in browsers that support rAF
- # [05:05] <danbeam> so if you wanted to do 240 iters in 10 sec
- # [05:05] <danbeam> how would you calc?
- # [05:05] <nimbu> u cant
- # [05:05] <danbeam> oh
- # [05:05] <nimbu> oh wait
- # [05:05] <danbeam> k
- # [05:05] <nimbu> u can
- # [05:05] <nimbu> coz that would be just 24 fps
- # [05:06] <danbeam> yeah, guess it is
- # [05:06] <nimbu> u gotta get new date and compare to old date and call ur call back if its time
- # [05:06] <nimbu> afaict
- # [05:06] <nimbu> otherwise just make a new rAF
- # [05:07] <nimbu> i think moz exposes time as a param for rAF? and webkit does not? i am not sure. paul_irish got a post which has links to deets
- # [05:08] <paul_irish> i think both impls pass in the time value as an arg now
- # [05:08] <paul_irish> mdc should have that info up to date
- # [05:08] <paul_irish> cuz i updated it
- # [05:08] <paul_irish> i think
- # [05:10] <danbeam> yeah, this is cool that how JavaScript handles time (as well as animations) is changing so much compared to the old model
- # [05:10] <danbeam> because +new Date kinda sucked
- # [05:10] <danbeam> and listening to jdalton talk about the issues with JSPerf, I'm glad there will be good stuff to take it's place soon
- # [05:11] <danbeam> or like paul_irish and nimbu have told me, why not skip JS all together, :)
- # [05:12] <nimbu> yeah thats an easier option if u have simple animations
- # [05:12] <danbeam> yup
- # [05:12] <danbeam> good preso, btw, too bad I didn't get to see it in person
- # [05:12] <danbeam> when I'm interested by just the slides I know it was good, :)
- # [05:13] <nimbu> danbeam: hahaha u did not get to see the entertainment at the en
- # [05:13] <nimbu> end*
- # [05:15] <danbeam> oh yeah, what happened?
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- # [05:18] <nimbu> i think paul_irish would explain it better
- # [05:18] <nimbu> its too embarrassing
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- # [05:24] <paul_irish> i have no idea what happened
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- # [05:24] <paul_irish> i think people applauded
- # [05:24] <paul_irish> sounds about right.
- # [05:26] <nimbu> orly
- # [05:26] <danbeam> haha
- # [05:27] <nimbu> anyway danbeam i tripped on the display connector and slides were off at the end and I also tripped again on the table cloth hanging off the edge of the table.
- # [05:27] <danbeam> oh, lol, rough
- # [05:27] <danbeam> were you hurt or just your pride?
- # [05:27] <nimbu> danbeam: it was just entertainment
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- # [05:28] <danbeam> haha
- # [05:28] <nimbu> i think there are videos
- # [05:28] <nimbu> or so I have heard
- # [05:28] <danbeam> nimbu: did you gladiator and ask the crowd if they were entained?
- # [05:28] <danbeam> lol
- # [05:28] <nimbu> please dont tell me when they are are out.
- # [05:28] <danbeam> haha
- # [05:29] <danbeam> I don't really wanna see my JSConf preso either, I was so tired and stressed from >_> various stupid twitter things <_< I had done earlier that day
- # [05:29] <danbeam> so I won't tell you about yours if you don't tell me about mine
- # [05:29] <danbeam> lol
- # [05:29] <nimbu> ohhh oops i was at JsConf actullly
- # [05:29] <nimbu> but didnt see most talks
- # [05:30] <danbeam> it's all good, I was up against the pistolslut
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- # [05:30] <danbeam> so naturally nobody came
- # [05:30] <danbeam> lol
- # [05:30] <nimbu> ohhh
- # [05:30] <nimbu> i almost like disrupted that talk.
- # [05:30] <nimbu> coz i couldnt control my laughter.
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- # [05:33] <tw2113> any of you brainiacs know why I'd suddenly be having "failed to load resource" issues with chrome? and is cache manifest possibly an issue with it?
- # [05:34] <paul_irish> she was amazing
- # [05:34] <paul_irish> tw2113: dunno
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- # [05:36] <tw2113> hmm, i think it may be just this one browser
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- # [05:36] <tw2113> i'm going to shrug it off for now
- # [05:39] <tw2113> bit more info and i can email this job application
- # [05:40] <Eightamrock> tw2113: where you applying?
- # [05:41] * Quits: skqr (~skqr@extwdig.dig.com) (Quit: Saionara, techies.)
- # [05:41] <tw2113> http://www.henkinschultz.com/
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- # [05:46] <tw2113> Eightamrock they need a web developer, and i think i'd be a good fit
- # [05:47] <Eightamrock> their menu is buggy, I hope they are hiring you to fix it
- # [05:48] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [05:48] <Eightamrock> tw2113: I think so my friend, good luck!
- # [05:48] * Quits: fcuk112_rw (~fcuk112_r@188-223-81-90.zone14.bethere.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [05:48] <Eightamrock> We should start a reference network.
- # [05:48] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
- # [05:48] <tw2113> here's the posting http://posthaste.henkinschultz.com/2011/06/14/web-developer/
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- # [05:50] <tw2113> i don't see anything that i lack 100% experience in
- # [05:50] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5B326EA9.dip.t-dialin.net)
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- # [06:08] <Eightamrock> tw2113: when you interview just use big words scare them with your brain power
- # [06:09] <tw2113> any examples?
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- # [06:11] <ryanseddon> don't use big words they're probably looking for someone to be able to translate techy stuff to something they can understand
- # [06:12] <tw2113> from what i understand, they have enough people who are designers
- # [06:12] <tw2113> but they lack the developer half
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- # [06:13] <tw2113> so i wager a lot of WordPress theme creation, which i'm just fine with
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- # [06:17] <tw2113> the heck is up, thatryan ?
- # [06:17] <thatryan> tw2113: starting new codez to redo my site
- # [06:17] <thatryan> sup wit you
- # [06:18] <tw2113> i need to install WordPress somewhere soon and put a dummy frontpage up
- # [06:18] <tw2113> and i'm waiting for some info for who to address a cover letter to
- # [06:18] <tw2113> other than that, not much
- # [06:21] <thatryan> good times
- # [06:23] <tw2113> how old are you thatryan if i may ask
- # [06:26] <thatryan> ill be 32 next month
- # [06:26] * Quits: jeffszusz (~jeffszusz@66.11.186.38) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
- # [06:27] <tw2113> you'll be old enough to remember the TMNT concert tour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMNT:_Coming_Out_of_Their_Shells#Concert_tour
- # [06:27] <thatryan> lmao
- # [06:27] <thatryan> oh my
- # [06:28] <tw2113> the worst part? i found a torrent for the recorded concert, and am watching it
- # [06:28] <thatryan> get to work
- # [06:29] <tw2113> noooo
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- # [06:34] <tw2113> damn, they're already stopping security update support for Fx4
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- # [06:40] <ryanseddon> They want you to forget about versions
- # [06:40] <ryanseddon> it's gonna be versionless from 5 and background updates, like chrome
- # [06:45] <tw2113> i like the background updates
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- # [07:18] <tw2113> what code thatryan ?
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- # [07:19] <thatryan> my site
- # [07:19] <tw2113> what you trying to make it do?
- # [07:20] <thatryan> nothing, just rebuilding
- # [07:20] <thatryan> blank mind
- # [07:20] <tw2113> no comment
- # [07:23] <thatryan> lol
- # [07:23] <tw2113> unset['mind']
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- # [07:42] <littlebearz> :P
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- # [07:48] <tw2113> thatryan http://maqueapp.com/
- # [07:49] <tw2113> i just found it interesting and know you're at your computer
- # [07:49] <thatryan> oohh neato
- # [07:49] <thatryan> thanks yo
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- # [08:46] <paul_irish> now reading:
- # [08:46] <paul_irish> http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2011/06/21/The-faster-release-process-of-Firefox
- # [08:46] <paul_irish> http://mike.kaply.com/2011/06/21/firefox-rapid-release-process/
- # [08:46] <paul_irish> http://mike.kaply.com/2011/06/23/understanding-the-corporate-impact/
- # [08:46] <paul_irish> in succession.
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- # [08:48] <paul_irish> poor mozilla. why they get so much heat for something that works very well for chrome is like... just a huge bummer
- # [08:48] <ryanseddon> because they're not google?
- # [08:49] <tw2113> because they used to be netscape?
- # [08:49] <ryanseddon> Sound like a bunch of complainers to me
- # [08:49] <nimbu> ryanseddon: !!!
- # [08:49] <nimbu> i am asking u questions
- # [08:49] <paul_irish> http://mozilla.github.com/process-releases/draft/development_specifics/
- # [08:49] <tw2113> whaaaaaaaa they're giving me more cool new shit too fast!
- # [08:49] <paul_irish> all these developers who are NOT web developers are bitching that this is bad for web developers
- # [08:49] <paul_irish> stab stab.
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- # [08:52] <paul_irish> http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2011/06/21/The-faster-release-process-of-Firefox#c15219 this comment is something ive been thinking of for the shitty IE intranet audience
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- # [08:55] <paul_irish> also didnt linus just declare the kernel gets a similar versioning scheme
- # [08:58] <tw2113> i am loving the background update stuff
- # [09:02] <niftylettuce> :-)
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- # [09:02] <niftylettuce> quick question, do any of us find time to sleep?
- # [09:02] <niftylettuce> tw2113: sup dood
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- # [09:03] <niftylettuce> sprite cow rox btw
- # [09:04] <tw2113> sleep?
- # [09:05] <tw2113> niftylettuce i just launched a WordPress site with a very static front page for the moment
- # [09:05] <tw2113> no links going to or from it
- # [09:05] <tw2113> mostly from it, but it looks awesome so far
- # [09:06] <tw2113> i should probably consider sleep soon because i have family visiting tomorrow
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- # [09:11] <niftylettuce> tw2113: yea i got a 9am meeting then gotta drive 3 hours and then another mtg :'(
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- # [09:14] <ryanseddon> faster background updates of browsers is a massive win for developers, I can use the new shit sooner
- # [09:14] <tw2113> ha! "corporations cannot follow that speed"
- # [09:15] <tw2113> they haven't been able to follow the speed for a decade because they built shit on IE6 specifically
- # [09:15] <ryanseddon> corps are still holding onto IE6, they can go die
- # [09:15] <ryanseddon> I just finished work on a corp site that has been going for almost 2 years, that's considered fast for them
- # [09:16] <tw2113> "Web authors will have to sniff even more browser versions"
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- # [09:16] <ryanseddon> :S which article is that from?
- # [09:16] <tw2113> to me, that's still called feature sniffing and provide fallback when X feature isn't supported
- # [09:16] <tw2113> http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2011/06/21/The-faster-release-process-of-Firefox
- # [09:17] <tw2113> the thing that made the most sense to me was his tiny update at the bottom, related to add-on authors
- # [09:17] <ryanseddon> I just updated my add-on to have maxVersion set to *
- # [09:18] <ryanseddon> problem fixed
- # [09:18] <ryanseddon> until it breaks but whatever
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- # [09:27] <tw2113> awww, Fx5 doesn't have -moz-text-decoration-color yet
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- # [13:14] <jetienne> q. is there a way to bind all events from a given dom elements ? without knowing their name i mean. like element.addEventListener("*", function(){})
- # [13:14] <skylamer`> if the thing on " " is css may be it is
- # [13:15] <jetienne> skylamer`: ? i was talking about event like "click" or "canplaythru" or "keypress"
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- # [13:15] <skylamer`> i dont know :)
- # [13:15] <jetienne> no css close... or i misunderstanding something :)
- # [13:16] <jetienne> ok :)
- # [13:17] <mokush_> anyone documented support for window.opener?
- # [13:18] <mokush_> jetienne: why would you want to do such a thing?
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- # [13:18] <jetienne> mokush_: to see which event is triggered and in which order
- # [13:19] <mokush_> jetienne: are you manualy triggering anything?
- # [13:20] <jetienne> mokush_: potentially i launch a <audio> via controls with the mouse
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- # [13:21] <mokush_> jetienne: the media events elements have the play event, you can use that
- # [13:21] <jetienne> mokush_: we are drifting. i want to bind all events wwithout knowing about them
- # [13:22] <jetienne> if the <audio> tag was working as expected, i would not need that :)
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- # [13:23] <mokush_> jetienne: well you can use something like a for loop to get all the properties of the element and create an array with that
- # [13:23] <jetienne> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/using_audio_and_video_in_firefox <- current solution is to copy all those events, and bind them by hand
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- # [13:23] <jetienne> and hope other browsers doesnt implement others event names
- # [13:24] <mokush_> jetienne: but make sure there's no other properties added by a , for ex., jquery
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- # [13:24] <jetienne> mokush_: i think we are a miscommunication here
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- # [13:28] <mokush_> jetienne: something like this, but you'll need a way to differenciate between properties. http://jsfiddle.net/GqtYw/4/
- # [13:31] <jetienne> mokush_: this is the current 'solution' of what im trying to do. http://pastebin.com/pEwbBVeV
- # [13:31] <jetienne> mokush_: as you can see, we are not talking about the same thing :)
- # [13:31] <jetienne> i look for a way to bind all events from a given dom elements ? without knowing their name i mean. like element.addEventListener("*", function(){})
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- # [15:30] <tbassett> hi. do you know who's behind the @html5 account on Twitter? :)
- # [15:31] <dr0id> I am
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- # [15:37] <plh_> tbassett, it's more than one individual
- # [15:38] <dr0id> funny
- # [15:38] <dr0id> @html6-10 all booked
- # [15:38] <dr0id> couldn't view after 10 cause twitter is hanging my chrome :/
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- # [16:07] <alisalaah> http://html11.org/
- # [16:08] <skylamer`> йьйьйьйьйь
- # [16:08] <skylamer`> :D)_
- # [16:08] <alisalaah> i -think- they have @html11 aswell
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- # [16:20] <ManBG> Where I can found web sites written in HTML ?
- # [16:20] <ManBG> I mean: List of html sites ?
- # [16:21] <Wilto> ...Google.com?
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- # [16:21] <ManBG> Wilto google but most sites are on php :)
- # [16:21] <Ms2ger> Php outputs HTML
- # [16:22] <moo-_-> PHP is a drug
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- # [16:38] <alisalaah> drugs are good
- # [16:38] <alisalaah> drugs save lives
- # [16:39] <ManBG> not really
- # [16:39] <ManBG> :D
- # [16:39] <alisalaah> Java = crack, heroine, etc
- # [16:39] <alisalaah> PHP = antibiotics
- # [16:39] <moo-_-> I thought Java was coffee
- # [16:39] <alisalaah> i meant good drugs not "bad" drugs
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- # [17:05] <akshay> Hi, I want to know can I use canvas today without fearing that specifications might change later one and may break my code. After all, Canvas is still under "Working Draft"
- # [17:06] <Ms2ger> Canvas won't change significantly
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- # [17:06] <Ms2ger> Once something has been implemented and shipped by multiple browsers, it's pretty much frozen
- # [17:07] <akshay> But as per this link Working Draft means that specs may change: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W3C_recommendation
- # [17:07] <moo-_-> akshay: of course it may change
- # [17:07] <moo-_-> akshay: browsers will change in any case
- # [17:07] <moo-_-> akshay: are you living in a stable world or what? :)
- # [17:08] <moo-_-> akshay: I suggest you target IE 5.5 :)
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- # [17:09] <Ms2ger> akshay, the stage in the W3C process doesn't really matter
- # [17:10] <akshay> moo-_-: . If I write some code today I want it to keep working even in browsers that come 3-4 years later. I can be sure about HTML4.01 code but not about something which is in working draft
- # [17:10] <Ms2ger> akshay, there have been major changes to published recommendations, because they didn't match browsers
- # [17:10] <Ms2ger> You can't be sure about HTML4, actually
- # [17:10] <moo-_-> akshay: no, you want to sell a high priced support contract which covers possible changes in the future and you will build only against a known browsers
- # [17:10] <moo-_-> otherwise your life does not make sense as a web developer
- # [17:11] <moo-_-> you can't keep it working unless you can see the future
- # [17:11] <akshay> Ms2ger: how ?
- # [17:11] <akshay> Ms2ger: I mean. Why?
- # [17:11] <Ms2ger> Because it didn't match browsers
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- # [17:13] <Ms2ger> The idea behind the W3C Process is that the W3C invents something, and browsers then implement it flawlessly
- # [17:14] <akshay> Ms2ger: ok
- # [17:14] <Ms2ger> But if what the W3C specifies can't be implemented in browsers without breaking a significant number of pages, the W3C will end up having to change
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- # [17:17] <moo-_-> Ms2ger: I thought it was that nothign becomes spefication unless there is two compatible implementations?
- # [17:17] <Ms2ger> moo-_-, that's the case now
- # [17:17] <Ms2ger> That wasn't true when HTML4 and CSS2.0 were published
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- # [17:55] <thatryan> could someone help me with a quick github question? :)
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- # [17:56] <Ms2ger> Not if you don't tell us what your question is
- # [17:57] <cylentwolf> ms2ger: you must guess it apparently
- # [17:57] <thatryan> hey all, I forked a repo, made some changes, then my pull request got merged, how can I "resync" my fork to the new master?
- # [17:57] <thatryan> :)
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- # [17:58] <moo-_-> thatryan: git pull new@master.address
- # [17:59] <thatryan> moo-_-: thanks, now what if my dumb ass did it all on github itself ;)
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- # [18:05] <moo-_-> http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/google-working-on-video-chat-for-chrome-skype-cowers-in-fear/
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- # [18:45] <alisalaah> www.aim.com/av is neat, but ofcourse in flash
- # [18:45] <alisalaah> sorry FLASH*
- # [18:46] <alisalaah> everyone always capitalizes it, i think just to mimic the annoyingness of it's existence
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- # [18:47] <JonathanNeal> hola
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- # [19:14] <paul_irish> Ms2ger: http://www.impressivewebs.com/html5-form-attribute/#comment-9273 can you help me understand the bugs contributing to that?
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- # [19:16] <Ms2ger> paul_irish, the fact that those annotations are updated manually
- # [19:17] <Ms2ger> Or rather, that they aren't
- # [19:18] <paul_irish> oh.
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- # [19:18] <Ms2ger> There's been some talk about using caniuse.com's data
- # [19:19] <paul_irish> he has a json feed i use in a few places.
- # [19:19] <Ms2ger> Feel like writing a script to do that? :)
- # [19:19] <paul_irish> :p
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- # [20:06] <shichuan> anyone here used web workers on android 2.3 or ios 4.3 (not ios 5) before? from my testing, they are not yet supported right?
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- # [20:10] <MikeSmith> workers not supported in iOS at all, I think
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- # [20:11] <shichuan> MikeSmith: exactly
- # [20:12] <shichuan> MikeSmith: here is an bizarre article: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/x-html5mobile4/index.html
- # [20:12] <shichuan> when i test it, doesn't work an any major mobile browser
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- # [20:12] <shichuan> only works on opera mobile and firefox mobile
- # [20:12] <shichuan> nimbu: opera mobile FTW!
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- # [20:13] <shichuan> MikeSmith: can't figure out how the screenshots were taken
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- # [21:08] <alisalaah> I have a friend who works on a DoD contract and asked me if access to IRC would be considered a work appropriate request for access since they would have to allow him access to the ports needed, though I guess he could webchat like with Freenode's qwebirc.
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- # [21:10] <alisalaah> But I told him he could make a decent case for it since they run Linux servers and use a lot of FOSS in his department and Freenode is a great resource for that stuff. He was concerned though that it would cause trouble asking for IRC access, has anyone here had to do that at a job?
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- # [22:44] <twisted> paul_irish told me to ask a question I asked in #whatwg here so it's just a copy from there
- # [22:44] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> yo
- # [22:44] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> #ja-mainnav div.main div.ja-megamenu ul.megamenu li.active a:hover {
- # [22:44] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> doesn't work
- # [22:44] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> but
- # [22:44] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> #ja-mainnav div.main div.ja-megamenu ul.megamenu li.active a {
- # [22:45] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> does...
- # [22:45] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> and I'm totally beat
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- # [22:45] <twisted> 22:33 < twisted> css validator gives me a lexicon error
- # [22:45] <twisted> 22:34 < twisted> tried different encodings, (ascii, latin1, utf8 (default))
- # [22:45] <twisted> also just tried deleting the file, making a new one, pasting it from a non-rtf capable editor
- # [22:45] <twisted> tried vim, same problem :S
- # [22:45] <twisted> https://h1890978.stratoserver.net:8443/sitepreview/http/aislings.nl/templates/aislings/css/menu/mega.css
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- # [22:47] <twisted> even if I take the working line and edit it inside chrome it's suddenly *gone*
- # [22:47] * CrashDiet_ is now known as CrashTest_
- # [22:47] <paul_irish> does that selector need to be so long?
- # [22:48] <twisted> tried it shorter
- # [22:48] <twisted> still doesn't work
- # [22:49] <twisted> just made it half the size, everything else still works
- # [22:49] <paul_irish> twisted: i just ran it through the validator and had no errors.
- # [22:49] * Parts: jo-erlend_ (~jo-erlend@94.80-203-106.nextgentel.com)
- # [22:50] <twisted> paul_irish: still does not work
- # [22:50] <twisted> you can refresh the .css file I posted
- # [22:50] <twisted> selector is half the size now, same problem
- # [22:50] <paul_irish> it's not a browser bug.
- # [22:50] <twisted> well, :hover is pretty standard haha
- # [22:51] <paul_irish> yes. something about your DOM doesnt match this selector
- # [22:52] <twisted> ok then explain to me (sorry but I've been fighting with this for 2hours now) how come 'a' works but 'a:hover' doesn't
- # [22:52] <twisted> same dom
- # [22:53] <paul_irish> twisted: there is no change in those two rulesets
- # [22:54] <paul_irish> you apply the same color and bold it again
- # [22:54] <twisted> yeah
- # [22:54] <twisted> I know
- # [22:54] <twisted> when I join them with a , it doesn't work
- # [22:54] <twisted> now it suddenly worked when I just have a:hover
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- # [22:58] <twisted> found the bug
- # [22:58] <twisted> thanks all
- # [22:58] <twisted> it moves the a
- # [22:58] <twisted> and it's not long enough
- # [22:58] <twisted> but the whole lexicon error
- # [22:58] <twisted> threw me off
- # [22:58] <paul_irish> :)
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- # [23:00] <danbeam_> howdy
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- # [23:01] <danbeam> anybody here still touch IE6?
- # [23:01] <paul_irish> plenty do.
- # [23:01] <paul_irish> http://piffle.abdoc.net/ <== new tool thing
- # [23:01] <paul_irish> kinda neat
- # [23:03] <danbeam> anybody know if AlphaImageLoader allow x-domain images?
- # [23:05] <danbeam> allows*
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- # [23:09] <danbeam> Nicole Sullivan thinks they don't (http://www.julienlecomte.net/blog/2007/07/4/#comment-300) but my tests disagree
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- # [23:38] <paul_irish> danbeam: i agree with tests.
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- # [23:39] <danbeam> paul_irish: ok
- # [23:39] <danbeam> paul_irish: I DM'ed Nicole
- # [23:39] <danbeam> paul_irish: I hope she agrees with us too
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The end :)