/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-06-25 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jun 25 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:00] <paul_irish> :)
  4. # [00:00] <paul_irish> wanna PR it?
  5. # [00:00] <paul_irish> <3z
  6. # [00:00] <danbeam> no, not anymore
  7. # [00:01] <danbeam> <3z
  8. # [00:03] <paul_irish> youdont?!
  9. # [00:03] <paul_irish> comeonnnnn
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  14. # [00:16] <paul_irish> bot-t: tell grantg http://code.google.com/p/gwt-nes-port/
  15. # [00:16] <bot-t> paul_irish, Okay.
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  36. # [00:57] <dpy> hey guys
  37. # [00:58] <dpy> does anyone happen to know a way to completely turn off any form of caching in chrome? I'm starting to get annoyed by chrome not reloading files when I change them during debugging...
  38. # [00:58] <dpy> I've tried the commandline options, I've tried incognito mode... it just keeps the cached version...
  39. # [00:59] <ColinHarman> not that i know of other than incongnito mode. sorry mate
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  43. # [01:06] <dpy> damn
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  47. # [01:06] <dpy> I wonder what they use at google to debug their web apps
  48. # [01:07] <dpy> (firefox+firebug? :p)
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  54. # [01:25] <paul_irish> i hard refresh, like i learned a long time ago.. :/
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  166. # [05:39] <niftylettuce> how do you tab \t in Chrome Inspector?
  167. # [05:39] <niftylettuce> not sure of hotkey
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  209. # [07:15] <paul_irish> http://blip.tv/jsconf/jsconf2011-andrew-dupont-everything-is-permitted-extending-built-ins-5211542
  210. # [07:15] <paul_irish> god so good
  211. # [07:16] <paul_irish>
  212. # [07:16] <paul_irish> http://memela.com/
  213. # [07:17] <tw2113> 365 odd updates to F15 is a slow process
  214. # [07:18] <dr0id> paul_irish: hey
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  217. # [07:22] <paul_irish> dr0id: sup
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  219. # [07:22] <paul_irish> chriseppstein: sup
  220. # [07:22] <chriseppstein> paul_irish: heya
  221. # [07:22] <chriseppstein> not much. codin'
  222. # [07:22] <paul_irish> sry we haven't beer'd yet
  223. # [07:23] <chriseppstein> np. I'm super busy too
  224. # [07:23] <chriseppstein> :)
  225. # [07:23] <paul_irish> i'm under quota with beers i owe a lot of people too
  226. # [07:23] <paul_irish> beer debt.
  227. # [07:23] <chriseppstein> ugh
  228. # [07:24] <chriseppstein> well you can get your answer to your question if you listen to my engineyard interview on their podcast
  229. # [07:24] <paul_irish> chriseppstein: html5 boilerplate is ramping up our ruby-based build script though
  230. # [07:24] <paul_irish> which means happy sass funtimes soon
  231. # [07:24] <dr0id> been coding a bit
  232. # [07:24] <chriseppstein> http://www.engineyard.com/podcast/s01e28-chris-eppstein
  233. # [07:24] <paul_irish> jina!
  234. # [07:24] <chriseppstein> paul_irish: w00t
  235. # [07:24] <paul_irish> yeah so i was talking to divya about this
  236. # [07:25] <paul_irish> is that... like.. well.. divya was but she's busy...
  237. # [07:25] <chriseppstein> jina is great
  238. # [07:25] <paul_irish> jina is like.. compass developer relations
  239. # [07:25] <chriseppstein> ha
  240. # [07:25] <chriseppstein> she's just barely getting going w/ compass but she's all about the sass
  241. # [07:25] <paul_irish> word
  242. # [07:25] <paul_irish> well she's def a good person to get all up on things
  243. # [07:25] <chriseppstein> :)
  244. # [07:26] <paul_irish> haha
  245. # [07:26] <paul_irish> "i'm been a frontend engineer ... and then architect.."
  246. # [07:26] <chriseppstein> O_o
  247. # [07:26] <paul_irish> you just mean to say you're much betterer at things
  248. # [07:27] <tw2113> what? no anarchist?
  249. # [07:27] <chriseppstein> so much
  250. # [07:27] <paul_irish> soooo much
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  255. # [07:27] <paul_irish> developer.. engineer.. architect ... scientist.. researcher.. fellow..
  256. # [07:27] <chriseppstein> I'm front-endy right now tho
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  258. # [07:27] <paul_irish> dibs on being a front-end fellow
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  260. # [07:28] <chriseppstein> working on a style guide for caring.com
  261. # [07:29] <chriseppstein> it's going to be teh awesomest
  262. # [07:31] <chriseppstein> most style guides are documentation. ours is code :)
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  265. # [07:34] <paul_irish> chriseppstein: you gonna publish it?
  266. # [07:34] <chriseppstein> i'll blog about it
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  268. # [07:34] <chriseppstein> describe the process
  269. # [07:35] <chriseppstein> but it's pretty site specific, not sure it makes sense to release it. Maybe some doc tools can be extracted
  270. # [07:36] <paul_irish> you explained the name!!!
  271. # [07:36] <paul_irish> yay
  272. # [07:36] <paul_irish> :)
  273. # [07:36] <chriseppstein> :D
  274. # [07:37] <paul_irish> ok gtg but will listen more later.
  275. # [07:37] <paul_irish> pz bro
  276. # [07:37] <chriseppstein> later
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  332. # [09:09] <mike5w3c> http://platform.html5.org/
  333. # [09:10] <mike5w3c> simple information page about the technologies that make up the platform
  334. # [09:10] <mike5w3c> with links to the actual specs
  335. # [09:10] <mike5w3c> suggestions for additions welcom
  336. # [09:10] <mike5w3c> *welcome
  337. # [09:10] <mike5w3c> patches also welcome
  338. # [09:10] <mike5w3c> https://github.com/sideshowbarker/platform.html5.org
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  341. # [09:21] <tw2113> why must all the git gui's for linux, suck?
  342. # [09:22] <iraebrasil> how many designers you know off are passionate for linux? ;)
  343. # [09:23] <asonge> how many linux git users like gui's
  344. # [09:24] <Ms2ger> Three?
  345. # [09:24] <dr0id> 5
  346. # [09:25] <tw2113> just motivation to stick with terminas
  347. # [09:25] <tw2113> terminals*
  348. # [09:26] <iraebrasil> agreed with asonge, I am on mac and I hardly open any git guis anyway
  349. # [09:27] <tw2113> granted, i'm a little jealous of macs getting a github client
  350. # [09:27] * Quits: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id) (Quit: Leaving.)
  351. # [09:29] <iraebrasil> look at this gist for some awesome git configuration ideas... https://gist.github.com/717284
  352. # [09:30] <iraebrasil> I used gui much more before I tweaked my config based on that
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  354. # [09:34] <iraebrasil> OMG! I wasn't aware of the mac app for github!
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  356. # [09:41] <niftylettuce> unicorn spotted in epiduo.com TV commercial
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  358. # [09:42] <niftylettuce> iraebrasil: im designer, passionate 4 linux
  359. # [09:43] <niftylettuce> I like github a lot
  360. # [09:43] <niftylettuce> but terminal much, much faster
  361. # [09:43] <niftylettuce> especially colored terminal XD!!!
  362. # [09:44] <iraebrasil> =)
  363. # [09:45] <iraebrasil> here is one of the few places to find designers passionate about linux... i never said they were non existent, but I don't know any
  364. # [09:46] <iraebrasil> well i guess i know now
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  372. # [10:11] <dr0id> mike5w3c: I like that img :P
  373. # [10:11] <mike5w3c> the face?
  374. # [10:12] <dr0id> yes
  375. # [10:13] <mike5w3c> that's a self-portrait of me
  376. # [10:13] <mike5w3c> smoking some thai stick
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  386. # [10:35] <niftylettuce> !tell bot-t hi
  387. # [10:35] <niftylettuce> ?tell bot-t hi
  388. # [10:35] <bot-t> niftylettuce, Stop playing with me!
  389. # [10:35] <niftylettuce> haha
  390. # [10:35] <niftylettuce> ?tell iraebrasil got so sick of designers not properly designing to specs, decided to go front-end and been in the mix since =)
  391. # [10:35] <bot-t> niftylettuce, Okay.
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  395. # [10:54] <skylamer`> ?tell niftylettuce :)
  396. # [10:54] <bot-t> skylamer`, Okay.
  397. # [10:56] <niftylettuce> protip /msg bot-t :P
  398. # [10:56] <bot-t> (1 min 49 secs ago) <skylamer`> tell niftylettuce :)
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  400. # [10:57] <dr0id> niftylettuce: so since designers couldn't design well, you have taken the job now ?
  401. # [10:58] <dr0id> hi sean`
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  411. # [11:10] <niftylettuce> dr0id: designers that were affordable at the time couldn't ;)...
  412. # [11:10] <dr0id> Hmm
  413. # [11:10] <dr0id> you freelance ?
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  415. # [11:14] <sean`> yo dr0id
  416. # [11:14] <dr0id> sean`: how ya doin man ? :)
  417. # [11:14] <sean`> good
  418. # [11:14] <sean`> u?
  419. # [11:14] <dr0id> ok here :D
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  422. # [11:17] <dr0id> aLeSD: hi all
  423. # [11:17] <dr0id> aLeSD: I'd like to understand if html5 is the future
  424. # [11:17] <dr0id> aLeSD: is html5 the future ?
  425. # [11:17] <dr0id> sean`: what's your rake on this ^^ ?
  426. # [11:17] <dr0id> take*
  427. # [11:17] <sean`> lol
  428. # [11:17] <sean`> html5 is the now
  429. # [11:18] <aLeSD> hey
  430. # [11:18] <dr0id> hey ho
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  435. # [11:36] <niftylettuce> dr0id: not really freelance :/
  436. # [11:37] <dr0id> niftylettuce: ok
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  438. # [11:42] <dr0id> aLeSD: did you get your answer ?
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  440. # [11:47] <aLeSD> i got it
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  474. # [14:02] <anujwalia> how to embed multiple canvas one above another
  475. # [14:02] <anujwalia> ?
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  482. # [14:14] <Trond--> why a html5 channel when there is a html channel?
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  484. # [14:22] <dr0id> because there is freenode when there is efnet
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  496. # [14:49] <daleharvey> bleh, dumb question, how do I get box-sizing to work so the input first its content - http://pastebin.me/6231f899a4dfa7765bc64b62020024e0
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  517. # [15:37] <Ramosa> when should one choose canvas and when should one choose SVG ?
  518. # [15:37] <Ramosa> to make non-interactive vector graphics
  519. # [15:43] <daleharvey> im gonna go ahead and say the clue is in the name :P
  520. # [15:43] <Ramosa> it's a riddle?
  521. # [15:43] <daleharvey> if you want vector graphics, choosing SVG (scalable vector graphics) is probably sensible :)
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  524. # [15:46] <Ramosa> oh.. but canvas does vector graphcis too
  525. # [15:46] <Ramosa> no?
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  529. # [15:51] <daleharvey> no, canvas is a 2d drawing api, you can implement vector graphics on top of canvas
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  531. # [15:51] <Ramosa> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Canvas_tutorial
  532. # [15:51] <Ramosa> the clock and the landscape on the right are not vector graphics?
  533. # [15:52] <daleharvey> no, they are raster drawings, you cant edit them
  534. # [15:53] <Ramosa> i think we are just having a technical discussion now :)
  535. # [15:53] <Ramosa> anyone understand what I really mean? :p
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  567. # [16:33] <daleharvey> anyone know of any browser plugin / whatever that will output a non flat pdf?
  568. # [16:34] <daleharvey> err, that was a terrible question, I want work work on an existing design in fireworks / whatever, am looking for a way to import it as some kind off non flat format (so the text is selectable etc). printing a webpage to a non flat pdf sounds like the most viable
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  571. # [16:36] <daleharvey> Ramosa: I understand the differences between canvas / svg reasonably well :P if you ask a more specific question then I might have a better answer, but you asked what you should do vector graphics in, and svg is a fairly obvious answer
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  600. # [17:52] <Ramosa> im going to draw some vector graphics based on server-side data, and currently just producing JSON that is painted on a Canvas... but figure I could just generate SVG from the server directly, so no javascript code is needed
  601. # [17:56] <shepazu> Ramosa: yes, it's pretty easy to draw both from similar code... what specifically are you using the image for?
  602. # [17:57] <Ramosa> its a chart, that will be reused many places on the website with different data
  603. # [17:57] <Ramosa> i agree its "easy" from both.. but which to choose? :)
  604. # [17:59] <Ramosa> SVG has no relation to HTML5 i guess
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  609. # [18:20] <shepazu> Ramosa: HTML5 defines how you can use SVG inline in the document
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  612. # [18:20] <shepazu> hi, nimbu
  613. # [18:21] <shepazu> Ramosa: for that case, you could use either one
  614. # [18:21] <shepazu> just depends on what you prefer
  615. # [18:21] <Ramosa> shepazu, and that's the problem, I'm quite indecisive :p
  616. # [18:21] <Ramosa> where can I read about HTML5/SVG inline
  617. # [18:22] <shepazu> SVG will automatically scale smoothly if you plan to change the size of the chart (or if the user zooms in)
  618. # [18:22] <Ramosa> thats an advantage!
  619. # [18:23] <shepazu> then use SVG!
  620. # [18:23] <shepazu> yay!
  621. # [18:23] <Ramosa> yaaay
  622. # [18:23] <Ramosa> but how HTML5 improves on it, im interested in knowing more about
  623. # [18:24] <shepazu> SVG inline is basically the same as regular SVG, you just create the document inside the HTML doc
  624. # [18:24] <Rik`> Ramosa: you may need to use Raphaeljs or svgweb to make it work in IE8, Firefox 3.6
  625. # [18:25] <shepazu> yeah, but nobody has FF 3.6
  626. # [18:25] <Ramosa> ahh backwards compatibility, not my problem :)
  627. # [18:25] <shepazu> (in fact, now nobody will know what version of FF they have, starting with FF5)
  628. # [18:26] <MikeSmith> Ramosa: Mozilla hacks article on svg is good
  629. # [18:26] <Ramosa> and before you refered to SVG with seperate html requests?
  630. # [18:27] <shepazu> Ramosa: HTML5 doesn't change anything about SVG (other than the parsing), it just allows SVG to be used directly inline
  631. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/05/firefox-4-the-html5-parser-inline-svg-speed-and-more/
  632. # [18:27] <shepazu> so, it changes HTML, not SVG
  633. # [18:27] <Ramosa> ok thanks
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  635. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> html5 makes svg taste better
  636. # [18:28] <shepazu> but people still consider SVG to be an "HTML5 technology", for various reasons
  637. # [18:28] <shepazu> yeah, what MikeSmith said
  638. # [18:28] <Rik`> shepazu: there are still 10% using 3.6
  639. # [18:29] <Ramosa> still kinda hard to decide when to choose canvas over svg
  640. # [18:29] <shepazu> HTML5 makes it easier to use SVG in browsers
  641. # [18:33] <shepazu> Ramosa: here's my guidelines http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/06-schepers-atmedia/canvas-svg.svg and http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/06-schepers-atmedia/canvas-svg-uses.svg
  642. # [18:33] <shepazu> hit the down aroow to see the bullet points
  643. # [18:33] <shepazu> or arrow
  644. # [18:34] <Ramosa> heh
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  647. # [18:35] <shepazu> Rik`: is that mostly enterprise? I'm surprised by that number
  648. # [18:35] <Ramosa> what do they mean that SVG is accessible
  649. # [18:35] <Rik`> shepazu: I don't know who but that's what statscounter says
  650. # [18:36] <shepazu> Ramosa: text in SVG is text, so screenreaders can read it
  651. # [18:36] <shepazu> that said, infographics need more specification to make them truly accessible
  652. # [18:36] <shepazu> we're working on that
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  654. # [18:38] <shepazu> Ramosa: fwiw, this slide has a working charting engine in SVG http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/06-schepers-atmedia/chart.html
  655. # [18:40] <Ramosa> great, i said chart to make you understand the concept actually im going to draw piano keys :)
  656. # [18:40] <Ramosa> but this kind of interactivity is nice
  657. # [18:40] <shepazu> ah, cool
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  659. # [18:41] <Ramosa> overwhelmed by links right now :)
  660. # [18:41] <shepazu> Ramosa: http://schepers.cc/web-audio-goes-to-eleven
  661. # [18:41] <shepazu> sorry
  662. # [18:41] <shepazu> :)
  663. # [18:42] <shepazu> huh, my piano is broken!
  664. # [18:42] <Ramosa> nice, did you make it?
  665. # [18:42] <shepazu> they must have changed the Moz audio API
  666. # [18:43] <shepazu> yeah
  667. # [18:43] <shepazu> it was easy
  668. # [18:43] <Ramosa> hmm what a coincidence :)
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  670. # [18:43] <shepazu> but that's static SVG, not generated via script (IIRC)
  671. # [18:43] <Ramosa> right.. i need to generate with script to visualize chords and stuff
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  707. # [20:12] <paul_irish> https://twitter.com/#!/html5/status/84678239473246209
  708. # [20:12] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/mFmoZR @html5: Yes, we are drinking your milkshake. Get used to it. The Web platform will win.
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  730. # [21:37] <paul_irish> feedback plz
  731. # [21:37] <paul_irish> Heard about that new inertial scrolling from iOS5 that's blowin up? We done got that :) https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/pull/577 /thx @joeybaker
  732. # [21:37] <paul_irish> for a html5boilerplate tweet
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  734. # [21:41] <Peter`> That request is 26 minutes old now, you've got four more minutes to tweet or it'll be old news
  735. # [21:41] <Peter`> this is the internet, you know! Stuff gets old quickly
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  751. # [21:58] <Saadi> can i ask a css3 question here?
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  762. # [22:37] <paul_irish> Saadi: if its a good question :)
  763. # [22:37] <Saadi> nvm
  764. # [22:37] <Saadi> i fixed it
  765. # [22:37] <paul_irish> woo
  766. # [22:38] <Saadi> css text-shadow wasnt working on an element with a backimage that had a back position in negative numbers
  767. # [22:38] <Saadi> o i removed the sprite
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  771. # [22:41] <paul_irish> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2003/01/apple-says-fuck-you-to-mozilla/
  772. # [22:43] <tw2113> lol "Apparently the fact that Paul Festa linked here from his CNET article is going to reduce my Livejournal to the unadulterated depths of uselessness that the Slashdot forums have pioneered, so I guess I'll just turn off comments until the newbie shitstorm blows on by. "
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  783. # [22:55] <iraebrasil> was this before firefox 1.0? afaik firefox 1.0 was a needed rewrite that tossed off a lot of the bloated code, was it not?
  784. # [22:55] <bot-t> (12 hours 10 mins ago) <niftylettuce> tell iraebrasil got so sick of designers not properly designing to specs, decided to go front-end and been in the mix since =)
  785. # [23:01] <iraebrasil> :)
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  790. # [23:07] <snover> iraebrasil: no. firefox 0.0 split from the monolithic mozilla suite
  791. # [23:09] <iraebrasil> I was under the impression that they rewritten a lot of the interface and some of the gecko engine
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  796. # [23:21] <cgcardona> running this small example http://pastebin.com/58SQ9xCf in my browser is causing is giving me this error in the console. `Security error" code: "1000` related to the frameBuffer. Any ideas?
  797. # [23:22] <grantg> is soaif in here?
  798. # [23:22] <bot-t> (23 hours 5 mins ago) <paul_irish> tell grantg http://code.google.com/p/gwt-nes-port/
  799. # [23:22] <cgcardona> ^that error is in FF
  800. # [23:22] <tw2113> afternoon grant and carlos
  801. # [23:22] <cgcardona> hey tw2113 howzit?
  802. # [23:22] <paul_irish> grantg: dunno a soaif
  803. # [23:22] <grantg> But it's Java?
  804. # [23:23] <tw2113> can't complain
  805. # [23:23] <paul_irish> yeah i'm just pointing it out
  806. # [23:23] <grantg> paul_irish: gwt-nes is java, no?
  807. # [23:24] <paul_irish> yes
  808. # [23:24] <grantg> so what's html5 about it?
  809. # [23:24] <paul_irish> the gwt compilation result :p
  810. # [23:24] <grantg> heh
  811. # [23:24] <paul_irish> nice that he did the web audio api for gwet
  812. # [23:24] <paul_irish> gwt
  813. # [23:25] <grantg> Y U NO Native JavaScript?
  814. # [23:25] <grantg> Port to java, meehhhhhh
  815. # [23:25] <grantg> :P
  816. # [23:25] <grantg> haters gonna hate. :P
  817. # [23:25] <grantg> *Port to JavaScript
  818. # [23:25] <grantg> It needs to be written in JavaScript, not compiled to it, otherwise me no likey. xD
  819. # [23:26] <grantg> paul_irish: They might as well take vNES and compile the java to javascript
  820. # [23:27] <grantg> omfg, it's slower than jsnes
  821. # [23:27] <grantg> and no mozaudio support
  822. # [23:27] <grantg> :(
  823. # [23:28] <grantg> also the java source code looks to be forked from another java nes emu
  824. # [23:29] <grantg> :(
  825. # [23:29] <cgcardona> why am I getting a security error when I try to access the frameBuffer? From googling around it seems to be related to having the resource in the same directory which I do.
  826. # [23:29] <cgcardona> event.frameBuffer = fail // :-|
  827. # [23:30] <cgcardona> wondering if it's cause i'm on FF5?
  828. # [23:31] <grantg> paul_irish: I wonder if he facebookized it yet?
  829. # [23:31] <grantg> I did to mine
  830. # [23:31] <paul_irish> haha
  831. # [23:31] <grantg> http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=212033522168516
  832. # [23:31] <grantg> :P
  833. # [23:31] <paul_irish> niceee
  834. # [23:31] <grantg> "Cause you need to be able to chat with other people on facebook while you pokemon"
  835. # [23:31] <grantg> humm
  836. # [23:32] <grantg> 600 or so users....
  837. # [23:33] <grantg> paul_irish: I wonder why everyone is avoiding XAudioJS
  838. # [23:33] <grantg> They want fancy pants docs?
  839. # [23:34] <grantg> Because I'm seeing a lot of people have things only for moz audio or for web audio only
  840. # [23:34] <grantg> rather than use XAudioJS to have both AND a flash fallback AND a wav pcm fallback if flash even fails
  841. # [23:34] <grantg> :/
  842. # [23:36] <grantg> paul_irish: Also V8 really needs to fix setInterval
  843. # [23:36] <grantg> That "add one ms to the delay" bug f**ks up a lot
  844. # [23:36] <grantg> you put 16 ms, chrome thinks 17 ms
  845. # [23:37] <grantg> while firefox on mac keeps it at 16
  846. # [23:38] <grantg> whoa
  847. # [23:38] <grantg> wall of text
  848. # [23:39] <paul_irish> huh.
  849. # [23:39] <paul_irish> is that reported?
  850. # [23:39] <paul_irish> never heard of it
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  853. # [23:43] <grantg> try it yourself
  854. # [23:44] <grantg> do time diff / number of iterations
  855. # [23:44] <cgcardona> grantg: XAudiojS looks good
  856. # [23:44] <grantg> it's off
  857. # [23:45] <grantg> cgcardona: thanks
  858. # [23:47] <grantg> paul_irish: I swear the js gba emulator runs as fast as jsnes and gwt-nes
  859. # [23:47] <grantg> lolwtf
  860. # [23:48] <grantg> brb
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  862. # Session Close: Sun Jun 26 00:00:00 2011

The end :)