/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-07-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jul 04 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  15. # [00:12] <moo-_-> does IE8 understand data attributes?
  16. # [00:12] <moo-_-> like
  17. # [00:12] <moo-_-> it doesn't lose them and I can access them from Javascript?
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  20. # [00:13] <moo-_-> hmm
  21. # [00:13] <moo-_-> should work
  22. # [00:13] <Epeli> moo-_-: yeah, should
  23. # [00:13] <moo-_-> hey Epeli
  24. # [00:13] <Epeli> hey
  25. # [00:13] <moo-_-> shouldn't you be on holiday or something? :D
  26. # [00:13] <Epeli> no? :)
  27. # [00:14] <Epeli> next month :)
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  29. # [00:18] <Epeli> besides I would probably still hack on something :P
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  91. # [03:00] <cgcardona> werd
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  101. # [03:54] <johnc> how do you guys generallly connect to sftp sites?
  102. # [03:55] <johnc> i usually use expandrive but wondering if you guys do something else
  103. # [04:10] * psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|away
  104. # [04:15] <thatryan> Transmit
  105. # [04:21] <ColinHarman> definitely Transmit
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  107. # [04:28] <johnc> cool thanks guys
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  115. # [05:07] <DrAwesomeClaws> http://mlasky.github.com/FunJs/ Playing with webgl, lots of room for improvement but just showing off my bit of code that i'm proud of, haha
  116. # [05:07] <DrAwesomeClaws> only tested in FF5 / Chrome on OS X, your mileage may vary
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  121. # [05:32] <cgcardona> DrAwesomeClaws: nice
  122. # [05:33] <DrAwesomeClaws> runs so much faster in FF5, I need to sit down and work out all the timing params and get everything running in constant time
  123. # [05:33] <DrAwesomeClaws> need to look into window.requestAnimationFrame() more
  124. # [05:33] <DrAwesomeClaws> thanks btw
  125. # [05:34] <DrAwesomeClaws> and I'm using an old version of box2d in JS form... I can probably update that and gain some decent performance
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  149. # [07:04] <LoneStar99> why does the following canvas drawing look gigantic? http://bobc.in/im/drop/cc/tp/bcqo-0
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  157. # [07:44] <tw2113> cgcardona who all is in your opera list?
  158. # [07:44] * Quits: dotnimrod (~dotnimrod@74.60.126.79) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  159. # [07:44] <tw2113> er circle :P
  160. # [07:44] <cgcardona> 1 sec
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  162. # [07:45] <cgcardona> https://plus.google.com/u/0/107922126865007340585/about
  163. # [07:46] <cgcardona> https://plus.google.com/u/0/112093417623838595355/posts
  164. # [07:46] <tw2113> just a list will be fine :P
  165. # [07:46] <tw2113> names etc
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  167. # [07:46] <cgcardona> Geoffrey Sneddon
  168. # [07:46] <cgcardona> David Vest
  169. # [07:46] <cgcardona> and of course nimbu
  170. # [07:47] <cgcardona> i only have 1 person from apple and 3 from google right now. So opera is winning
  171. # [07:47] <cgcardona> not massive circles I'll admit :p
  172. # [07:47] <tw2113> ah
  173. # [07:47] <cgcardona> how bout u?
  174. # [07:48] <cgcardona> anyone from opera that I don't have?
  175. # [07:50] <tw2113> molly holzschlag
  176. # [07:51] <tw2113> only one i can pinpoint at the moment
  177. # [07:51] <cgcardona> k thank
  178. # [07:51] <cgcardona> s
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  181. # [07:59] <tw2113> i've had 2 bowls of ice cream and more sounds damn good
  182. # [08:04] <cgcardona> you're free
  183. # [08:04] <cgcardona> go for it
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  387. # [12:17] * Disconnected
  388. # [12:17] * Attempting to rejoin channel #html5
  389. # [12:17] * Rejoined channel #html5
  390. # [12:17] * Topic is 'Welcome, amigos :: Ask any question about html5 & Friends. || Author Spec: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/ || Full spec: http://whatwg.org/html5 || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.org http://mzl.la/9giLwR http://html5homi.es'
  391. # [12:17] * Set by marienz!~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz on Fri Nov 05 18:43:30
  392. # [12:17] <xec> dpy: something like this? http://jsfiddle.net/vu6sQ/
  393. # [12:19] * Quits: derekjohnson (~derekmj74@host81-149-242-230.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  394. # [12:19] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@FL1-119-240-253-187.tky.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  395. # [12:20] <xec> dpy: the minus signs throwing it off anyway, but i still get undefined here: http://jsfiddle.net/vu6sQ/1/
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  397. # [12:22] <dpy> xec: http://jsfiddle.net/vu6sQ/2/
  398. # [12:23] <xec> now i get "t.dataset is undefined" =/
  399. # [12:23] <dpy> oh, I'm sorry, I thought .dataset was html5
  400. # [12:24] <xec> works in chrome but not firefox apparently
  401. # [12:24] <xec> another reason to stick to jquery i guess
  402. # [12:25] <dpy> Oh, I'm sticky with jquery already, no probs
  403. # [12:25] <xec> :)
  404. # [12:26] <dpy> but .dataset should be supported by html5 browsers nonetheless, afaik
  405. # [12:26] <dpy> it also implements the translation to camelCasing
  406. # [12:27] <dpy> (jQuery's private dataAttr function implements this btw)
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  409. # [12:28] <dpy> correction, it's the public data() plugin that does this.
  410. # [12:29] <dpy> xec: mind you, that in both cases, the typeof the attribute is still a string, regardless of its perceived string contents.
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  412. # [12:30] <xec> right
  413. # [12:31] <xec> how would you use it as a function
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  416. # [12:34] <dpy> you wouldn't.
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  418. # [12:36] <xec> xD
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  421. # [12:40] <xec> dpy: i think i got it now! http://jsfiddle.net/vu6sQ/4/
  422. # [12:41] <dpy> :)
  423. # [12:41] <xec> sorry for wasting your time :D
  424. # [12:41] <dpy> np
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  439. # [13:21] <moo-_-> is it possible to do a drag and drop operation between Facebook album (different window) and your web app?
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  441. # [13:21] <moo-_-> sounds not very likely scenario
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  473. # [15:08] <mokush> any ideea if moz is going to implement "overflow-style: marquee;" ?
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  475. # [15:23] <moo-_-> mokush: hopefully not! :D
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  477. # [15:23] <moo-_-> I remember <marquee> tag from HTML... 3?
  478. # [15:24] <mokush> moo-_-: well everybody still supports the tag
  479. # [15:24] <mokush> except gecko. it does support it, but in a funny way
  480. # [15:24] <moo-_-> The colt can't kill the Devil, eh?
  481. # [15:25] <mokush> I got a client bashing my ballz with this damn marquee so I must cope with it.
  482. # [15:25] <jetienne> i bet <blink> is still all over ;)
  483. # [15:25] <moo-_-> mokush: but I assume you you can probably do your own marquee with CSS animations ;)
  484. # [15:25] <moo-_-> or tranforms
  485. # [15:25] <mokush> moo-_-: sadly, I can't, because it need dynamic content. :(
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  487. # [15:25] <moo-_-> mokush: it should not affect whether it is dynamic or not?
  488. # [15:25] <moo-_-> just put it to <div> container
  489. # [15:26] <jetienne> mokush: css is about position, the content is in the ht;l
  490. # [15:26] <jetienne> html
  491. # [15:26] <moo-_-> and CSS3 animate it all over the place
  492. # [15:26] <mokush> moo-_-: well with dynamic content, I don't have a fixed width
  493. # [15:26] <mokush> so I don't know where to scroll it to.
  494. # [15:26] <moo-_-> mokush: scroll 100%?
  495. # [15:27] <mokush> moo-_-: 100%? well I have to change the left position to a negative value. I and I have to way to dettermine the value.
  496. # [15:27] <moo-_-> hmm
  497. # [15:28] <moo-_-> there must be a way
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  499. # [15:29] <moo-_-> can you use calc() or whatever dynamic expressions there are available?
  500. # [15:29] <moo-_-> as you can grab the width in javascript easily
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  503. # [15:33] <mokush> moo-_-: I didn't think of calc(), but support for it it absolutely horrible from what I remember
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  510. # [15:42] <NoNoNo> moo-_-: mokush: http://caniuse.com/calc
  511. # [15:42] <mokush> NoNoNo: yeah, horrible
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  513. # [15:43] <moo-_-> ooh
  514. # [15:43] <NoNoNo> moo-_-: mokush: Depending on your needs, you might use 'box-sizing' http://caniuse.com/css3-boxsizing
  515. # [15:43] <moo-_-> android browser included
  516. # [15:43] <moo-_-> nice
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  545. # [16:38] <LoneStar99> anyone here which can take a look at a coanvas?
  546. # [16:38] <LoneStar99> canvas?
  547. # [16:42] <LoneStar99> need to figure out why an image appears huge
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  552. # [16:47] <LoneStar99> why is this image so bloated? http://bobc.in/im/drop/cc/tp/bcqo-0
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  570. # [17:01] <logan5236_> hi
  571. # [17:01] <logan5236_> i dont understand the use of link tags in some cases, like this one -> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" href="data.xml"> , can someone explain me whats the use ?
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  574. # [17:04] <logan5236_> anyone there ?
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  578. # [17:08] <cgcardona> :)
  579. # [17:08] <logan5236_> :)
  580. # [17:08] <logan5236_> i dont understand the use of link tags in some cases, like this one -> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" href="data.xml"> , can someone explain me whats the use ?
  581. # [17:09] <logan5236_> cgcardona: can you help me
  582. # [17:09] <cgcardona> hmm. From the one line that I saw after I entered the room it looks like that link is for an atom feed. but I dont know much about atom feeds. What was the question?
  583. # [17:10] * Joins: ryanneufeld (~ryanneufe@S01060019e1edefc1.vc.shawcable.net)
  584. # [17:10] <logan5236_> what is the use of it ?
  585. # [17:10] <logan5236_> makes no sense, user cannot click it and go to that page, can he ?
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  587. # [17:10] <cgcardona> not positive but I think it's for a feed reader
  588. # [17:10] <cgcardona> i don't think humans are supposed to click it
  589. # [17:11] <cgcardona> but like I said I'm not entirely sure. You might have better luck in #web.
  590. # [17:11] <logan5236_> feed reader ? like google leader ?
  591. # [17:11] <logan5236_> reader*
  592. # [17:11] <logan5236_> what would they do with it ? :-/
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  594. # [17:11] <cgcardona> i think they follow it and get the content
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  596. # [17:12] <logan5236_> do they ?
  597. # [17:12] <logan5236_> usually you just make a rss feed and it has the options to subscribe by default
  598. # [17:12] <cgcardona> sounds like you know more about it than me ;)
  599. # [17:12] <logan5236_> and i think readers might be just getting new content from that page!
  600. # [17:12] <cgcardona> rss/atom I've never done
  601. # [17:12] <logan5236_> umm, hmm
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  604. # [17:13] <logan5236_> its ok, thanks for yout time :)
  605. # [17:13] <cgcardona> np
  606. # [17:13] <logan5236_> lets see if anyone can anwer, but no one is answering !!!!
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  608. # [17:13] <cgcardona> everyone is raging at some 4th of july party
  609. # [17:13] <cgcardona> they'll stagger in here sooner or later
  610. # [17:14] <cgcardona> all roads lead to #html5
  611. # [17:14] <logan5236_> ohh ?
  612. # [17:14] <logan5236_> what party ?
  613. # [17:14] <logan5236_> 4th july , what party ?
  614. # [17:14] <cgcardona> a bunch of different ones i'm sure
  615. # [17:14] <cgcardona> not one in particular
  616. # [17:14] <logan5236_> hmm
  617. # [17:14] <logan5236_> i dont know about any party today :)
  618. # [17:15] <cgcardona> yeah i don't hear about em in my underground bunker either but that's what I read on the interwebs
  619. # [17:15] <cgcardona> (it's a series of tubes)
  620. # [17:15] <logan5236_> xD
  621. # [17:16] <logan5236_> ok then
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  699. # [19:14] <vrlogrs> hey guys
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  701. # [19:14] <vrlogrs> i was hoping somebody could help me validate my page
  702. # [19:14] <vrlogrs> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fvrlogrs.com%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=HTML5&group=0&verbose=1&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.2
  703. # [19:15] <vrlogrs> i dont understand what the errors mean
  704. # [19:15] <vrlogrs> :S
  705. # [19:17] <vrlogrs> anyone? please
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  707. # [19:18] <sedovsek> vrlogrs: Don't put anything above <!DOCTYPE html>
  708. # [19:18] <sedovsek> It should be the first thing in the document.
  709. # [19:19] <vrlogrs> but, i got my php stuff above it
  710. # [19:19] <vrlogrs> not good?
  711. # [19:19] <sedovsek> You can put your PHP code after <body>, I'm pretty sure. :)
  712. # [19:19] <asonge> only if you're not sending headers
  713. # [19:20] <vrlogrs> but you gotta have session_start() as the first thing
  714. # [19:20] <vrlogrs> so <?php session_start(); ?> has to be first
  715. # [19:20] <asonge> vrlogrs: just make sure that the doctype is the first thing OUTPUTTED
  716. # [19:20] <asonge> doesn't matter where the php is
  717. # [19:20] <vrlogrs> but, it is :S
  718. # [19:20] <asonge> well, aside from php working correctly
  719. # [19:20] <asonge> no, it isn't
  720. # [19:20] <asonge> you are outputting a comment somehow
  721. # [19:21] <moo-_-> crappy PHP code
  722. # [19:21] <moo-_-> the world most spoken programming language
  723. # [19:21] <vrlogrs> oh, crap
  724. # [19:21] <asonge> php, my first language, and my largest hate.
  725. # [19:21] <vrlogrs> that voltrank stuff is coming up first
  726. # [19:21] <sedovsek> You're also outputinh <div style... before <!doctype html> which is wrong.
  727. # [19:21] <vrlogrs> ok, ill change that
  728. # [19:21] <vrlogrs> thanks guys
  729. # [19:22] <sedovsek> moo-_- & asonge: why exactly you dislike PHP?
  730. # [19:22] <asonge> when you start to do advanced things you start running into inconsistencies because the language was never planned
  731. # [19:22] <asonge> there's no forethought in the language design, so you realize how hobbled-together it is
  732. # [19:22] <moo-_-> sedovsek: in encourages very bad design patterns, leading to situations like one above
  733. # [19:23] <sedovsek> moo-_- that's ridicilous
  734. # [19:23] <moo-_-> PHP has good points, though
  735. # [19:23] <sedovsek> It's just a bad USE of PHP, not that PHP is bad.
  736. # [19:23] <vrlogrs> i fixed it guys - a fault of voltrank's advice
  737. # [19:23] <moo-_-> sedovsek: but with PHP you have more bad use than with other programming languages
  738. # [19:23] <moo-_-> tools wouldn't allow you to go to the bad situation in the first place
  739. # [19:23] <sedovsek> I would agree with that.
  740. # [19:23] <asonge> sedovsek: php's scoping rules, for instance, really encourage horrible design patterns.
  741. # [19:23] <moo-_-> it's like C++ of web development
  742. # [19:24] <moo-_-> a chainsaw ready to clip off your foot
  743. # [19:24] <asonge> moo-_-: C++ was at least planned
  744. # [19:24] <asonge> the implicit type conversions are the source of so many bugs
  745. # [19:24] <asonge> (in php)
  746. # [19:25] <moo-_-> PHP should have strict mode enabled by default
  747. # [19:25] <sedovsek> I would say it is possible to write good code in php.
  748. # [19:25] <moo-_-> should not complete web pages if there is even one WARN
  749. # [19:25] <asonge> it does now, actually
  750. # [19:25] <asonge> well, it completes them
  751. # [19:25] <moo-_-> should disable old mysql driver by default
  752. # [19:25] <moo-_-> and so on
  753. # [19:25] <asonge> it does
  754. # [19:25] <asonge> since php5
  755. # [19:25] <asonge> which was 5 years ago
  756. # [19:25] <sedovsek> :)
  757. # [19:26] <moo-_-> asonge: why I am still seeing so many hosting without mysqli? :)
  758. # [19:26] <moo-_-> +providers
  759. # [19:26] <asonge> moo-_-: because shared hosting providers often use turn-key solutions and never actually build php from source or even from OS repos
  760. # [19:26] <asonge> they get them through cpanel or whatever BS
  761. # [19:26] <sedovsek> What else do you use for small web pages/web apps if you are building any?
  762. # [19:27] <moo-_-> sedovsek: google app engine
  763. # [19:27] <vrlogrs> guys, im still having validation issues :(
  764. # [19:27] <vrlogrs> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fvrlogrs.com%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=HTML5&group=0&verbose=1&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.2
  765. # [19:27] <moo-_-> it's perfect for "get it done and let it run"
  766. # [19:27] <asonge> sedovsek: i've got a php framework i like to use for basic sites...but few of the sites i make are basic.
  767. # [19:28] <sedovsek> asonge: Which one is that?
  768. # [19:28] <moo-_-> asonge: well, one could say that cheap PHP is the worst programming language of the world ;)
  769. # [19:28] <asonge> i usually use php for the frontend, and just a few html files and lots of javascript with an API for the backend (often the backend in erlang)
  770. # [19:28] <asonge> i don't need SEO on the backend, and it's hidden behind logins
  771. # [19:29] <asonge> sedovsek: i wrote it, and it's not really ready for wide release
  772. # [19:29] <moo-_-> erlang
  773. # [19:29] <moo-_-> that's like... hardcore
  774. # [19:29] <moo-_-> some real-time chat backend?
  775. # [19:30] <asonge> i use it when i have to make a daemon
  776. # [19:30] <asonge> because erlang backends are impossible to kill when designed properly...even if you crash parts of it
  777. # [19:30] <asonge> just make sure the very very core is stable
  778. # [19:30] <vrlogrs> anyone understand the errors? please
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  780. # [19:30] <moo-_-> vrlogrs: yes
  781. # [19:31] <asonge> vrlogrs: well, obviously, fb: stuff isn't going to validate
  782. # [19:31] <moo-_-> vrlogrs: you might need to declare fb: namespace?
  783. # [19:31] <moo-_-> I am sure if it's needed with HTML5 doctype
  784. # [19:31] <moo-_-> but for more old-fashioned way it is needed
  785. # [19:31] <sedovsek> vrlogrs: never mind these warnings...
  786. # [19:31] <asonge> i really wouldn't worry about those
  787. # [19:32] <vrlogrs> ok, so the page is OK?
  788. # [19:32] <vrlogrs> no worries
  789. # [19:32] <sedovsek> Altought one div seems to be closed, but never opened?
  790. # [19:32] <vrlogrs> yah, i dont get that either
  791. # [19:32] <sedovsek> although*
  792. # [19:32] <asonge> moo-_-: right now, i'm writing a site that streams audio and such, and i use erlang in front of icecast so i can intercept and do more flexible auth and other things.
  793. # [19:32] <asonge> i can also inject audio into the stream
  794. # [19:33] <moo-_-> vrlogrs: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6237053/is-fbml-compliant-with-html-standards in any case
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  796. # [19:33] <sedovsek> Does anyone find lack of concurrency a problem of PHP?
  797. # [19:33] <asonge> sedovsek: no.
  798. # [19:33] <moo-_-> asonge: nice. is it based on your won code or icecast or such?
  799. # [19:33] <sedovsek> I used to hate that function names are incosnsitant... and the function arguments.
  800. # [19:33] <sedovsek> inconsistent*
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  802. # [19:34] <moo-_-> sedovsek: yes. and unless you go strict you end up giving parameters in wrong order and kaboom! :)
  803. # [19:34] <asonge> sedovsek: i find in the web world, if you're working with 1 thread/process per request, introducing threading/forking on that is a bad idea (in general)
  804. # [19:34] <asonge> i mean, unless it's erlang
  805. # [19:34] <asonge> where a new process costs 400B of memory
  806. # [19:34] <asonge> and you can spawn a million in a second
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  808. # [19:35] <asonge> say you were using python and wanted to thread on an HTTP request...you've got GIL blocking you anyway.
  809. # [19:36] <asonge> and from what i hear, ruby's threading isn't exactly lightweight
  810. # [19:36] <moo-_-> asonge: yeah PHP and Python are the same.
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  812. # [19:36] <moo-_-> processes
  813. # [19:36] <moo-_-> not threads
  814. # [19:36] <moo-_-> it's bad for memory consumption
  815. # [19:36] <moo-_-> I especially hate Plone CMS
  816. # [19:36] <moo-_-> each process cost 500 MB memory on a complex site
  817. # [19:36] <asonge> it's good for multiprocessing though
  818. # [19:36] <asonge> php does have a multithreaded mode
  819. # [19:36] <asonge> the waiting on locks part kills the performance
  820. # [19:36] <moo-_-> asonge: running PHP in multithread is like asking blood from your nose >_<
  821. # [19:37] <sedovsek> moo-_-: you can't do it, as far as I know.
  822. # [19:37] <moo-_-> PHP is so badly designed that it even does not have garbage collection, so I wouldn't give it any access outside the process
  823. # [19:37] <moo-_-> launch run kill
  824. # [19:37] <asonge> it does have GC now, but yeah
  825. # [19:37] <asonge> it's better to have it off anyway
  826. # [19:38] <asonge> when a request takes .2s, gc will make the request last longer
  827. # [19:38] <asonge> the gc is for people who do wrong things with php...like write php daemons
  828. # [19:38] <asonge> (i don't understand these people)
  829. # [19:38] <sedovsek> moo-_-, well, some say javascript was badly designer. Was done in 10 days... but look at it now...
  830. # [19:38] <sedovsek> It's basicly used everywhere.
  831. # [19:38] <moo-_-> yeah. PHP has one good purpose, answering HTTP requests. It should not be used for anything else :)
  832. # [19:38] <moo-_-> sedovsek: yeah
  833. # [19:39] <moo-_-> sedovsek: have you seen this presentation about Javascript history by this Yahoo guy?
  834. # [19:39] <moo-_-> very good
  835. # [19:39] <sedovsek> moo-_-: Which one? Dough C.?
  836. # [19:39] <moo-_-> crokford
  837. # [19:39] <sedovsek> I've read his books...
  838. # [19:39] <asonge> understanding how to leverage javascript's strengths wasn't obvious to people a while back, imho
  839. # [19:40] <asonge> after reading crockford, i started to understand the right way to do things in JS
  840. # [19:40] <moo-_-> here http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=crockonjs-1
  841. # [19:40] <asonge> too many people try to make language X work like language Y instead of just playing to the strengths of the language.
  842. # [19:40] <sedovsek> moo-_-: Thanks for the refference. I'll check it later.
  843. # [19:41] <asonge> lots of people try to make php work like java :/
  844. # [19:41] <asonge> or javascript work like java
  845. # [19:41] <moo-_-> this is one of my favorite quotes
  846. # [19:41] <moo-_-> He put them together in a really interesting way, really fast; he completed the whole thing in a couple of weeks. It's a shame that he wasn't given the freedom that Xerox had to spend a decade to get this right. Instead of ten years it was more like ten days, and that was it. I challenge any language designer to come up with a brand new design from scratch in ten days and then release it to the world and call it done and see what happens with that.
  847. # [19:41] <moo-_-> Netscape was not a company that had time to get it right, which is why there's no longer a Netscape.
  848. # [19:42] <asonge> moo-_-: i'm almost glad he didn't have more time in a way, he could've turned it into actionscript.
  849. # [19:42] <asonge> *shudder*
  850. # [19:42] <moo-_-> asonge: I'd still like my classes, thank you! :)
  851. # [19:42] <asonge> i really like just using closures
  852. # [19:42] <moo-_-> with closures you have shoot off your foot problem with easily
  853. # [19:42] <moo-_-> with re-entrant functions
  854. # [19:43] <moo-_-> javascript does not exactly encourage you of being careful
  855. # [19:43] <asonge> i made a little toy one time, after separating a lot of the state out from the functions in some js i was playing with
  856. # [19:43] <asonge> i'd save the js, and issue a command in the erlang shell and it'd send down the new JS
  857. # [19:45] <asonge> though i had good success with my last large JS project in triggering jquery namespaced events to do all the UI interactions and had the UI just call functions, but not retreive any state
  858. # [19:46] <sedovsek> Can we see it?
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  860. # [19:46] <asonge> it needs to be cleaned up, so i don't want anyone to make fun :)
  861. # [19:46] <sedovsek> :)
  862. # [19:46] <sedovsek> Well, it's a pet project, right?
  863. # [19:46] <sedovsek> So noone really cares.
  864. # [19:46] <sedovsek> I do *pet projects* all the time.
  865. # [19:47] <sedovsek> Like http://twittground.me/ for instance :)
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  867. # [19:47] <moo-_-> let's see
  868. # [19:47] * moo-_- gives sedovsek some link love
  869. # [19:48] <asonge> this is more than just a pet project (the second one)
  870. # [19:48] <asonge> http://www.bitsizzle.com/docs/player.php
  871. # [19:48] <moo-_-> yuck I can see branding logos among people
  872. # [19:48] <sedovsek> moo-_-: beacuse you follow them :P
  873. # [19:48] <moo-_-> sedovsek: is there some correlation to a frequence of images?
  874. # [19:48] <moo-_-> like who tweets more get more images?
  875. # [19:48] <asonge> it's still very incomplete, and this was the first iteration that i finished...so it needs to be redone 1 more time before i'll be happy.
  876. # [19:49] <asonge> and there's a few weird GUI states left to track down
  877. # [19:49] <asonge> but my biggest problem was how asyncronous this actually was...loading the flash and having to interact with that only when it was ready
  878. # [19:50] <sedovsek> asonge: This is awesome.
  879. # [19:50] <sedovsek> So if get it... it uses html5 if possible? else flash?
  880. # [19:50] <asonge> html5 audio is nice, but incomplete
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  882. # [19:50] <asonge> it uses flash first, because flash's he-aac support is just the best user experience
  883. # [19:50] <sedovsek> what if the user has no flash?
  884. # [19:50] <asonge> also, the flv has the metadata in it directly into the stream (this is all live-streamed from a laptop in my closet)
  885. # [19:50] <asonge> then it goes down to html5
  886. # [19:51] <sedovsek> is it possible to play FLV with html5?
  887. # [19:51] <asonge> if you look at the code, there's a giant driver section
  888. # [19:51] <asonge> nono
  889. # [19:51] <sedovsek> Oh, so you still have to have more than 1 audio format?
  890. # [19:51] <asonge> this is all being broadcast in aac in flv, mp3 in flv, ogg, aac, and mp3
  891. # [19:51] <asonge> this is live encoded audio
  892. # [19:51] <sedovsek> Ou.
  893. # [19:51] <asonge> (the business targets radio stations)
  894. # [19:51] <asonge> static files are simple as all hell
  895. # [19:52] <asonge> streams are really iffy, particularly mp3 in html5 browsers...chrome breaks mp3 streams every other release.
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  897. # [19:53] <asonge> once we get money, i'm going to hire an actual designer
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  899. # [19:53] <sedovsek> :))
  900. # [19:53] * asonge waits for moo-_- to pick it apart to hell :/
  901. # [19:53] <moo-_-> asonge: well
  902. # [19:53] <moo-_-> I press play, hear 0.2 s sample and then quiet :)
  903. # [19:53] <asonge> i'll probably end up making the drivers into full-blown classes
  904. # [19:54] <asonge> moo-_-: browser/platform?
  905. # [19:54] <moo-_-> FF4/Linux
  906. # [19:54] <asonge> do you have flash?
  907. # [19:54] <moo-_-> yeah
  908. # [19:54] <sedovsek> moo-_-: http://twittground.me/ actually just randomly chooses (max) 100 of your twitter friends.
  909. # [19:54] <asonge> moo-_-: i wonder if i should skip flash on linux, it's too unstable.
  910. # [19:54] <sedovsek> I could fetch them all, but it would take too much time.
  911. # [19:54] <asonge> ff + flash is unstable
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  914. # [19:54] <asonge> (on linux, in particular)
  915. # [19:54] <moo-_-> asonge: I press twice
  916. # [19:54] <moo-_-> works
  917. # [19:55] <moo-_-> buffering - UI state issue?
  918. # [19:55] <asonge> probably so
  919. # [19:55] <sedovsek> <moo-_-> sedovsek: is there some correlation to a frequence of images?
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  921. # [19:55] <sedovsek> This is actually a good idea. :)
  922. # [19:55] <asonge> there's some unreachable states i haven't found yet, that i know of
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  934. # [19:56] <sedovsek> Oh, mIRC still have that issue? Servers split? How does it called?
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  938. # [19:59] <moo-_-> sedovsek: I think it's IRC network issue
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  940. # [20:00] <tw2113> yeah, not a client issue
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  952. # [20:13] <cgcardona> lunch bbiab
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  980. # [20:53] <sedovsek> moo-_- & tw2113: Yea, I know that. I just forgot how does it called? Just *server split* I guess?
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  982. # [20:54] <electronpluspl-1> Hi
  983. # [20:55] <tw2113> netsplit sedovsek
  984. # [20:55] <tw2113> server split is probably another term
  985. # [20:58] <sedovsek> You're most probably right.
  986. # [20:58] <sedovsek> Truth is I'm from Slovenia. We might have used different termin.
  987. # [20:59] <sedovsek> But it was long ago since I used mIRC on a daily basis.
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  993. # [21:07] <moo-_-> "It turns out that because JavaScript is such a powerfully expressive language, a surprisingly small amount of JavaScript can transform the DOM — which is one of the world's awfulest APIs — into something that is pleasant and productive. It's an amazing thing. "
  994. # [21:08] <moo-_-> sedovsek: you know, there are other IRC clients beyond mIrc ;)
  995. # [21:08] <sedovsek> Enlight me. :)
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  998. # [21:11] * asonge <3's irssi
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  1000. # [21:15] <tw2113> xchat
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  1008. # [21:24] <sedovsek> I don't really see a reason for switching to anything else...
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  1012. # [21:33] <DrAwesomeClaws> anyone care to run the little webgl demo over at http://mlasky.github.com/FunJs/ and let me know if it runs decently smooth / what hardware, browser you're on? It's early code, just messing around. Probably only works in newer FF / Chrome variants
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  1024. # [21:52] <KaOSoFt> Hello there. I don't know where to ask this, but I'm curious: if I have a way to type in, let's say, an en dash, should I do it directly, or use a named reference (&ndash;)?
  1025. # [21:53] <moo-_-> KaOSoFt: depends
  1026. # [21:53] <KaOSoFt> On what?
  1027. # [21:53] <moo-_-> KaOSoFt: I would do type it directly, but I am sure all my source code files are in UTF-8 encoding
  1028. # [21:53] <moo-_-> if you are using some ugly frameworks or proramming languages this might not be the case
  1029. # [21:54] <moo-_-> because it makes HTML source much more readable
  1030. # [21:54] <KaOSoFt> Oh, yeah, I know, I meant as a preference. I plan on using UTF-8 as well.
  1031. # [21:56] <moo-_-> I don't see any reasons why in the modern world you couldn't directly write it to the source code
  1032. # [21:57] <snover> using entities is silly
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  1034. # [21:59] <KaOSoFt> I got curious because I was taking a look at the character viewer in my OS, and there were all the characteres ready to be copy-pasted, instead of using its Unicode code or named reference.
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  1056. # [22:21] <Daljo628> Anyone play around with flexboxes before? I've got a page acting hinky ... two columns with the same box-flex value aren't syncing up width-wise.
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  1059. # [22:24] <aidalgol> Why is the verse on this page rendering in oblique even though I have explicitly specified that it should be italic? http://nathan7.eu/~aidan/bat/bat.html
  1060. # [22:25] <Daljo628> Have you defined an italic version of the font?
  1061. # [22:27] <aidalgol> Yes, but also a bold/oblique one.
  1062. # [22:28] <aidalgol> If I remove the oblique definition, the italic font is used.
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  1074. # [23:05] <Ms2ger> aidalgol, oblique == italic as far as browsers are concerned, I believe
  1075. # [23:05] <aidalgol> Ms2ger: I thought oblique was bold?
  1076. # [23:05] <aidalgol> *.
  1077. # [23:06] <aidalgol> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/font-style
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  1080. # [23:10] <Ms2ger> No, oblique is fake italic
  1081. # [23:11] <Ms2ger> Boldness is controlled by font-weight
  1082. # [23:11] <aidalgol> Oh!
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  1085. # [23:13] <aidalgol> Ms2ger: Why does "font-weight: lighter" have no visible effect in my browser?
  1086. # [23:14] <Ms2ger> Because you can't get lighter than the default for most fonts
  1087. # [23:14] <Ms2ger> Try it inside a bold element
  1088. # [23:14] <aidalgol> Figured it was something like that.
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The end :)