/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-07-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jul 20 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  20. # [00:23] <danielfilho> I hate when people at work just don't give a shit for ANY performance best-practice on front-end :(
  21. # [00:23] <danielfilho> still, I love my job :)
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  78. # [01:52] <dilvie> Any gotcha's detecting html5 audio support I should be aware of?
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  130. # [04:00] <sandprickle> halloo?
  131. # [04:00] <materialdesigner> hi
  132. # [04:00] <sandprickle> i've got a q
  133. # [04:01] <materialdesigner> sure, what is it?
  134. # [04:01] <sandprickle> about the HTML5 Boilerplate
  135. # [04:01] <sandprickle> ok
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  137. # [04:01] <nimbu> ask sandprickle
  138. # [04:01] <sandprickle> so basically i'm pretty inexperienced
  139. # [04:01] <sandprickle> when it comes to webdev
  140. # [04:02] <sandprickle> but have been keeping up on stuff to some degree
  141. # [04:02] <sandprickle> i'm working on a site now
  142. # [04:02] <sandprickle> wondering if i should use boilerplate
  143. # [04:02] <sandprickle> on the one hand, people smarter than me put it together, so i should probably use it
  144. # [04:03] <sandprickle> on the other hand, I would like to know why I do everything
  145. # [04:03] <sandprickle> if you follow
  146. # [04:03] <materialdesigner> sure
  147. # [04:03] <nimbu> sandprickle: read the wiki and decide
  148. # [04:03] <nimbu> ?g github html5boilerplate wiki
  149. # [04:03] <bot-t> nimbu, HTML5 Boilerplate Documentation (beta) - GitHub - https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/wiki
  150. # [04:03] <nimbu> oops actually
  151. # [04:03] <nimbu> http://h5bp.com/docs/
  152. # [04:04] <sandprickle> ok
  153. # [04:04] <sandprickle> i've looked at the docs a bit
  154. # [04:05] <sandprickle> yeah I don't think it will be too much of a problem to figure out what's going on, disregarding time
  155. # [04:05] <materialdesigner> well exactly how new are you? WHen you look at the boilerplate's code, is it all gibberish? or is it mostly "I don't understand why this is best practices, but I do understand what it does"
  156. # [04:06] <sandprickle> closer to the latter i think
  157. # [04:06] <sandprickle> but some of it I don't understsand what it does
  158. # [04:06] <materialdesigner> for example?
  159. # [04:06] <sandprickle> hmm...
  160. # [04:07] <sandprickle> <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
  161. # [04:07] <sandprickle> it explains that in the comment briefly
  162. # [04:07] <sandprickle> just didn't really know about that outside of h5bp
  163. # [04:07] <sandprickle> ...
  164. # [04:08] <sandprickle> never really learned about <meta name="author">
  165. # [04:08] <sandprickle> or <meta name="description">
  166. # [04:09] <paul_irish_> x-ua-compat works the exact same outside
  167. # [04:09] <paul_irish_> most of h5bp is just.. little snippets collected
  168. # [04:09] <paul_irish_> so its not like they all depend on eachother
  169. # [04:09] <materialdesigner> I was wondering if paul_irish_ was around :)
  170. # [04:09] <paul_irish_> come on you totally had that, materialdesigner
  171. # [04:09] <materialdesigner> I didn't want to steal your thunder, man
  172. # [04:09] <paul_irish_> sandprickle: there is rough evidence meta description is used for google SERP snippet
  173. # [04:10] <sandprickle> ok
  174. # [04:10] <paul_irish_> author isnt used by anything but hey its nice to say who wrote it in case anyone viewsources
  175. # [04:10] <paul_irish_> materialdesigner: please do steal it
  176. # [04:10] <sandprickle> like us
  177. # [04:10] <paul_irish_> like us
  178. # [04:10] <sandprickle> I should really just take the time sometime to go through h5bp and study till I understand it all
  179. # [04:11] <sandprickle> the question is, should I finish my uncle's site first?
  180. # [04:11] <materialdesigner> there's also the humans.txt approach
  181. # [04:11] <paul_irish_> it would be one of the better codebases to do that with
  182. # [04:11] <materialdesigner> (in regards to meta author)
  183. # [04:11] <paul_irish_> yes
  184. # [04:11] <sandprickle> actually wouldn't humans.txt be better?
  185. # [04:11] <grantg> paul_irish: I'm running Super Mario Bros. 10x speed in Google Chrome. :3
  186. # [04:11] <paul_irish_> sandprickle: read it nowwww
  187. # [04:11] <materialdesigner> lol
  188. # [04:11] <paul_irish_> grantg: sweet.
  189. # [04:12] <materialdesigner> humans.txt is nice if you've got a large group of people you want to thank
  190. # [04:12] <sandprickle> true
  191. # [04:12] <materialdesigner> copywriters, developers, designers, etc
  192. # [04:12] <grantg> I added an option to speed up the emulator by an integer factor
  193. # [04:12] <paul_irish_> <meta name=author value="go view the humans.txt file bro">
  194. # [04:12] <grantg> chrome takes it alllllll the way to 30x
  195. # [04:12] <sandprickle> I was thinking it would shave a few bytes off the html file
  196. # [04:12] <sandprickle> that would work too
  197. # [04:12] <grantg> 30 * 60 = 1800 FPS
  198. # [04:12] <grantg> :O
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  200. # [04:12] <paul_irish_> grantg: and the canvas perf holds up?
  201. # [04:12] <sandprickle> (why did i say that? :P)
  202. # [04:13] <paul_irish_> i thought the canvas scaling bug has been fucking your emu for a while now
  203. # [04:13] <materialdesigner> sandprickle: the other awesome thing about the html5bp is its build script
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  205. # [04:13] <grantg> paul_irish_: It renders internally at 1800 FPS, but blits at 60 fps
  206. # [04:13] <grantg> technically 62.5 fps blit rate
  207. # [04:13] <paul_irish_> sandprickle: best not to think about shaving bytes from HTML until you're heavily compressing all your images
  208. # [04:13] <paul_irish_> which.. you're not. :)
  209. # [04:13] <grantg> but it computes the graphics at 1800 FPS in JS
  210. # [04:13] <grantg> with rendering the sprites and background layers
  211. # [04:14] <grantg> to a virtual framebuffer js array
  212. # [04:14] <paul_irish_> grantg: apparently some people are talking about highend graphics monitors with 80hz which means the 60fps of rAF isnt perfect for everyone :/
  213. # [04:14] <sandprickle> so basically just minify and i'm good as far as html goes?
  214. # [04:14] <materialdesigner> html minification isn't even really necessary
  215. # [04:14] <materialdesigner> sure it's *nice*
  216. # [04:14] <paul_irish_> sandprickle: use the h5bp build script
  217. # [04:14] <grantg> paul_irish_: Well your gameboy does 59.7 FPS
  218. # [04:14] <sandprickle> which minifys
  219. # [04:14] <sandprickle> right?
  220. # [04:14] <paul_irish_> optionally
  221. # [04:14] <grantg> And I ignore extra blits that occur in one iteration
  222. # [04:14] <paul_irish_> the point is that you shouldnt think about that shit when you're writing code.
  223. # [04:14] <paul_irish_> grantg: oic
  224. # [04:14] <grantg> so it does one blit per setInterval. :P
  225. # [04:15] <sandprickle> worry more about semantics, etc
  226. # [04:15] <sandprickle> ?
  227. # [04:15] <grantg> paul_irish_: It still computes the LCD emulation and rendering at 1800 FPS internally to a JS array
  228. # [04:15] <grantg> :O
  229. # [04:16] <sandprickle> i actually did <meta> instead of <meta /> to make the file smaller
  230. # [04:16] <sandprickle> hehe
  231. # [04:16] <materialdesigner> -_-
  232. # [04:16] <paul_irish_> ?slap sandprickle
  233. # 06[04:16] * bot-t slaps sandprickle around a bit with a large trout
  234. # [04:16] <materialdesigner> lol
  235. # [04:16] <sandprickle> lol
  236. # [04:16] <grantg> ?slap bot-t
  237. # 06[04:16] * bot-t slaps grantg around a bit with a large trout
  238. # [04:16] <paul_irish_> hahahah you wish
  239. # [04:16] <nimbu> good lord sandprickle
  240. # [04:17] <grantg> fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu
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  242. # [04:17] <materialdesigner> man, I can't wait to get my coffeescript IRC bot up and running
  243. # [04:17] <grantg> ?slapxonecas
  244. # [04:17] <bot-t> grantg, Couldn't find "slapxonecas" in jQuery Docs.
  245. # [04:17] <grantg> ?slap xonecas
  246. # [04:17] <grantg> :/
  247. # [04:17] <grantg> aww
  248. # 03[04:17] * paul_irish_ is now known as paul_irish
  249. # [04:17] <grantg> heh
  250. # 06[04:18] * grantg turns down the speed on SMB
  251. # [04:18] <grantg> ran out of time. xD
  252. # [04:18] <sandprickle> so really, how many empty elements would it take for <> vs < /> to make a difference
  253. # [04:18] <sandprickle> ?
  254. # [04:18] <materialdesigner> a gajazillion
  255. # [04:18] <materialdesigner> you'd be better spent smush.it your images
  256. # [04:18] <materialdesigner> using spritecow to make sprites
  257. # 02[04:18] * Quits: benv_ (~benv@50-0-80-160.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  258. # [04:19] <materialdesigner> finding a CDN
  259. # [04:19] <sandprickle> ok
  260. # [04:19] <materialdesigner> any other millions of things
  261. # [04:19] <materialdesigner> using an asynchronous JS loader
  262. # [04:20] <sandprickle> ok
  263. # [04:20] <materialdesigner> but don't prematurely optimize
  264. # [04:20] <materialdesigner> it's a poor waste of your time
  265. # [04:20] <materialdesigner> get that shit done. get it up. get it working.
  266. # [04:20] <sandprickle> ok
  267. # [04:20] <materialdesigner> you can worry about optimizing when his e-commerce is making millions
  268. # [04:20] <sandprickle> sounds good
  269. # [04:20] <materialdesigner> :)
  270. # [04:20] <sandprickle> I do want to make it fast tho
  271. # [04:20] <tw2113> i'm sad...i wasn't able to do a remote dragonfly debugging earlier
  272. # [04:21] <paul_irish> try harder
  273. # [04:21] <materialdesigner> for a generic website, it'll still be plenty fast. Unless you are using a multi MB background image heh
  274. # [04:21] <tw2113> i think it was because it was connecting to my external modem IP and not my computer's router-provided one
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  277. # [04:26] <grantg> lol
  278. # [04:26] <grantg> chrome crash
  279. # [04:26] <grantg> couldn't handle the powa
  280. # [04:27] <grantg> crankshaft oh noes
  281. # [04:30] <sandprickle> ok i'm back; had to take out the garbage
  282. # [04:30] <sandprickle> ok thx
  283. # [04:31] <sandprickle> yeah it will be a one page scrolling job I think
  284. # [04:33] <sandprickle> weel l8ers peeps
  285. # [04:33] <sandprickle> i should hang here more often
  286. # [04:33] <sandprickle> thx everyone
  287. # [04:33] <materialdesigner> np sandprickle
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  299. # [04:41] <sandprickle> oh hey
  300. # [04:41] <materialdesigner> ?
  301. # [04:42] <sandprickle> should I read the h5pb docs or go through the code first? or both
  302. # [04:42] <materialdesigner> read the relevant code after reading a section of the docs
  303. # [04:42] <sandprickle> ok
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  305. # [04:44] <sandprickle> thx
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  315. # [05:17] <sandprickle> paul_irish or anyone else involved in h5bp
  316. # [05:17] <sandprickle> looks like a bad link here:
  317. # [05:17] <sandprickle> http://html5boilerplate.com/docs/#The-markupā˜…the-order-of-charset-meta-tags-and-title
  318. # [05:18] <nimbu> seems to render for me
  319. # [05:18] <sandprickle> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc288325(VS.85).aspx
  320. # [05:18] <sandprickle> that link to the msdn
  321. # [05:18] <sandprickle> above link from GitHub wiki
  322. # [05:19] <sandprickle> on the h5bp it is messed up
  323. # [05:19] <sandprickle> sorry if this is the wrong place for this
  324. # [05:19] <nimbu> sandprickle: ah kk
  325. # [05:19] <sandprickle> wasn't sure if I should file a bug report
  326. # [05:19] <nimbu> naw can convert to a short url
  327. # [05:19] <nimbu> i will do that now
  328. # [05:21] <nimbu> fixed sandprickle
  329. # [05:21] <sandprickle> ok cool
  330. # [05:21] <sandprickle> should I have filed a bug report or was this cool
  331. # [05:22] <nimbu> its fine
  332. # 02[05:22] * Quits: dpogue (~dpogue@S010600226b831d53.vf.shawcable.net) (Quit: :q!)
  333. # [05:22] <sandprickle> oh actually at html5boilerplate.com/docs it still seems to be screwed...
  334. # [05:23] <sandprickle> sorry if I didn't make that clear
  335. # [05:23] <sandprickle> the link on the wiki seemed fine
  336. # [05:23] <paul_irish> replace star with another #
  337. # [05:24] <nimbu> no paul_irish its that msdn link within
  338. # [05:24] <nimbu> i fixed it in github but i guess it takes time to propagate
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  340. # [05:24] <sandprickle> ok no prob I got there from GitHub so i've got it
  341. # [05:25] <sandprickle> thx guys
  342. # [05:25] <paul_irish> OOOOOOKKKKKK
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  348. # [05:36] <JonathanNeal> Arrr!
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  350. # [05:38] <materialdesigner> long time to propagate is damn right
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  359. # [05:55] <TheEmpath> hail nodelings
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  361. # [05:56] <TheEmpath> i've leveraged node.js at my game company
  362. # [05:56] <TheEmpath> woops
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  400. # [06:56] <Jantire> I'm reading the HTML5 spec, and it's awesome
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  435. # [08:17] <Jantire> <meter> vs <progress>?
  436. # [08:17] <Jantire> Other than a differnet color
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  469. # [09:19] <skylamer`> mike5w3c hi, whatsup boy :D)
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  535. # [10:50] <PHPart> Hi room
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  585. # [12:46] <noob596> can anybody show me a working example of jstree
  586. # [12:46] <noob596> please
  587. # [12:46] <noob596> how do i use it in html
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  597. # [13:10] <noob596> anybody home?
  598. # 03[13:11] * psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|away
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  600. # [13:12] <OzDave_mbp> they all left for the beach
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  605. # [13:24] <noob596> okay
  606. # [13:24] <noob596> how come u r still here
  607. # [13:24] <noob596> :S
  608. # [13:24] <noob596> :D
  609. # [13:24] <OzDave_mbp> hehe
  610. # [13:24] <OzDave_mbp> I live in australia, everywhere is a beach
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  613. # [13:25] <noob596> can u help me out?
  614. # [13:25] <noob596> with js
  615. # [13:25] <noob596> ?
  616. # [13:25] <OzDave_mbp> not my lang of choice, I can fumble and try, there is a ##javascript room which would be far better.
  617. # [13:26] <noob596> i am trying to get a tree displayed
  618. # [13:27] <noob596> http://pastie.org/2242286
  619. # [13:27] <OzDave_mbp> ask the blokes on that link, they will solve it 10 times faster I bet
  620. # [13:27] <noob596> this is my code
  621. # [13:27] <noob596> okay
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  623. # [13:29] <noob596> noones there
  624. # [13:29] <noob596> :(
  625. # [13:29] <OzDave_mbp> there is heaps of people there
  626. # [13:30] <OzDave_mbp> Ive lurked it for a few days past
  627. # [13:30] <noob596> no ones answering i mean
  628. # [13:30] <OzDave_mbp> its not a 30 second tv commercial world. just be a little patient
  629. # [13:30] <noob596> okay
  630. # [13:30] <noob596> :D
  631. # [13:30] <OzDave_mbp> :)
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  707. # [15:26] <kollapse> Not sure if this is the right place to ask but here goes: Anyone here have any hints on how to do indexable hash navigation in a site ? For example I want a dynamic ajax-based navigation that would use hashes (such as site.com/index.php#4asd27qsd) instead of normal static navigation (such as site.com/index.php?p=asd&a=23).
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  709. # [15:28] <henrikkok> kollapse: that is a hot potato topic. But you could look at a project such as Backbone.js
  710. # [15:28] <kollapse> henrikkok: hot potato ?
  711. # [15:28] <kollapse> I've managed to do something about 2 years ago but I'm not sure if it was INDEXABLE.
  712. # [15:28] <kollapse> As in if bots such as Google Bots can use hashes to index content.
  713. # [15:29] <henrikkok> google propsed that you should use #! (hashbang)
  714. # [15:29] <henrikkok> But there are a lot of opinions about that topic
  715. # [15:30] <x29a> indexedDB, y u no stable?
  716. # [15:30] <kollapse> Hashbang, heh, funny name, never heard of it. Such as www.site.com/index.php#!a23adwa23arsd ?
  717. # [15:31] <kollapse> I'm willing to give it a try. If Google Bot has implemented specific hash recognition, what's the problem ?
  718. # [15:31] <henrikkok> yes that could be a way www.domain.com/#!/user/kollapse
  719. # [15:31] <henrikkok> twitter also uses hashbang
  720. # [15:32] <henrikkok> kollapse: i recommend google the topic "hashbang" - there are a lot of blog posts about it
  721. # [15:33] <kollapse> henrikkok: By #!a23adwa23arsd I mean something like a SHA-256 encrypted hash, so the user just sees a random "identifier" instead of actual data such as "page=123,id=2,name=something"
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  723. # [15:34] <henrikkok> You can use whatever you want :-)
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  727. # [15:37] <henrikkok> HTML5 gives you pushState which is what you want
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  733. # [15:41] <jetienne> is there a shim for that ? or something which fallback nicely if pushState isnt supporter by the browse r?
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  735. # [15:42] <tbranyen> jetienne: no, its unshimable
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  741. # [15:46] <kollapse> henrikkok: Hmm. Is there any way to detect if a client that connects to a server is an indexing bot (such as Google Bot ) ?
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  743. # [15:47] <henrikkok> jetienne: there is. look at History.js on github
  744. # [15:48] <tbranyen> henrikkok: thats not a shim...
  745. # [15:48] <tbranyen> that uses location.hash and is notihng new
  746. # [15:49] <jetienne> henrikkok: thx
  747. # [15:49] <henrikkok> tbranyen: but it is a nice fallback :-)
  748. # [15:49] <tbranyen> stupid hashes i hate thee
  749. # [15:50] <henrikkok> kollapse: you can look at the userAgent but that is more a backend thing i think
  750. # [15:51] <kollapse> henrikkok: Maybe one could implement both types of navigation (hash-based and classic), use hashes by default and switch back to classic whenever a bot is encountered.
  751. # [15:52] <kollapse> If it's just a matter of UserAgent, I guess some server-side programming would be enough for differentiating between a human being and a bot.
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  753. # [15:54] <kollapse> Maybe use classic <a> links with href such as page.php?var1=sasd&var2=2123 and use a little javascript to turn these to hash-based links if the client that accesses the page is human (based on a boolean transmitted to JS from the server-side part).
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  755. # [15:54] <kollapse> It's rather sketchy ... but might just work.
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  757. # [15:55] <kollapse> That way bots would only deal with clasic referrers and would not have to go up against hashes and complicate things.
  758. # [15:55] <kollapse> Leaving hash-based links to be only used for user navigation with history and for sharing links between 2 human beings.
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  760. # [15:56] <henrikkok> You can catch all clicks on <a /> elements with javascript and do that hash thing - so only people that has js enabled will use this "system"
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  765. # [15:56] <kollapse> That's easily done with jQuery.
  766. # [15:57] <kollapse> Along with the usage of event.preventDefault()
  767. # [15:57] <kollapse> Yeah... might just work.
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  770. # [15:57] <henrikkok> yes
  771. # [15:57] <henrikkok> kollapse: maybe take a look at jquery mobile, they do the exact same thing
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  773. # [15:58] <kollapse> I guess indexing bots filter out the URLs and access them separately, they don't .... click... right ?
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  775. # [15:59] <henrikkok> I have no clue, but i would be surprised if the did a "click"-event :D
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  779. # [16:01] <kollapse> Maybe they employ something like this to workaround, say, hotlinking restrictions ?
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  853. # [17:41] <JonathanNeal> ahoy
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  857. # [17:47] <Aric> Should I use vim or emacs for writing html5 files?
  858. # [17:49] <Marble68> Does anyone have a recommendation on vertically centering a fieldset? Should I create a wrapper DIV that is 50/50 and then position the fieldset relative and 50% margin-top? I'm strugging to make margin-top actually do anything
  859. # [17:49] <Marble68> (sorry for the noob question)
  860. # [17:50] <Marble68> - To clarify - to do anything with a percentage or auto. If I set px; it applies.
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  863. # [17:52] <kywebguy> anyone using html5 boilerplate?
  864. # [17:52] <kywebguy> im having problems with google maps api
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  866. # [17:53] <kywebguy> there is a discription of how to fix my problem on this page https://github.com/paulirish/html5-boilerplate/wiki/FAQs
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  868. # [17:54] <kywebguy> however, I have searched throughout the entire project and cannot find this line of code /docwriteregexwhitelist/.test(q)
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  874. # [17:58] <kywebguy> anyone have an idea?
  875. # [17:58] <nimbu> kywebguy: are you using h5bp from github?
  876. # [17:58] <nimbu> or the d/l one
  877. # [17:58] <kywebguy> the downloaded one
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  882. # [18:01] <nimbu> yeah we removed that kywebguy
  883. # [18:01] <nimbu> in v 1.0
  884. # [18:02] <nimbu> so i guess the FAQ needs to be updated
  885. # [18:02] <kywebguy> so my problem isnt related to boilerplate?
  886. # [18:02] <nimbu> i dont think so.
  887. # [18:02] <nimbu> if you are using v1.0
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  891. # [18:06] <kywebguy> thanks
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  901. # [18:19] <noob> guys i need to make rows in a table collapsible
  902. # [18:20] <noob> can any one heklp me
  903. # [18:20] <noob> how do i start doing it
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  948. # [19:15] <xonecas> o/
  949. # [19:16] <BrianBlakely> \o
  950. # [19:17] <tbranyen> \m/ \m/
  951. # [19:17] <xonecas> ook at all these awake devs :-)
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  956. # [19:20] <xonecas> Has anyone here used backbone.js?
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  992. # [19:55] <sandprickle> noob: I have not done much at all with tables :P
  993. # [19:55] <sandprickle> i'm noobish myself
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  1005. # [20:07] <niftylettuce_> it appears they had 16 people, but only 15 mustaches @ http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61JWHe04iKL.gif (tw2113)
  1006. # [20:08] <tw2113> yeah, i shaved the previous day in that picture
  1007. # [20:08] <tw2113> and grew my hair out insanely fast :P
  1008. # [20:08] <niftylettuce_> via http://goo.gl/7yZFr
  1009. # [20:08] <niftylettuce_> lol
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  1016. # [20:17] <niftylettuce_> xonecas: =)
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  1036. # [20:36] <paul_irish> should we do an html5 hangout later on?
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  1038. # [20:39] <skylamer`> yes
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  1041. # [20:39] <skylamer`> diid you look in to the new 'Tilt' addon for mozilla, paul ?
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  1043. # [20:41] <paul_irish> link plz
  1044. # [20:42] <paul_irish> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2011/07/tilt-visualize-your-web-page-in-3d/
  1045. # [20:42] <paul_irish> thx
  1046. # [20:42] <paul_irish> yah i saw this morn
  1047. # [20:42] <paul_irish> i think everyone and their mom had this idea
  1048. # [20:42] <paul_irish> but they pulled it off extremely well
  1049. # [20:42] <nimbu> s/mom/dad/
  1050. # [20:42] <Michael> That's pretty badass
  1051. # [20:42] <skylamer`> :)
  1052. # [20:43] <skylamer`> its a pretty early stage right now from what im looking, but its good
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  1067. # [21:00] <xonecas> paul_irish: can you let me know when the hangout happens, I would like to join if I can :-)
  1068. # 02[21:02] * Quits: cjaredrun (~cjaredrun@216-235-101-HCC-37.hcc.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1069. # [21:03] <Michael> You mean the HUDDLE?
  1070. # [21:03] <paul_irish> no i mean a hangout
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  1076. # [21:10] <skylamer`> mothereffingangout ? :D)
  1077. # [21:12] <xonecas> Hangout, huddle, ^ what he said, either way it would be nice to catch up after being gone for so long
  1078. # [21:13] <dilvie> I'd love to hangout, but I can't figure out how to work them into my schedule. );
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  1088. # [21:23] <ExpertOrBust> anone know of any cons to using HTML5 x-webkit-speech tag? besides its only available in webkit browsers?
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  1092. # [21:27] <skylamer`> any one look in that 'webputty' thing? :)
  1093. # [21:30] <tbranyen> webputty seems like a really sketchy idea
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  1096. # [21:36] <BrianBlakely> ExpertOrBust: No downsides that I know of. It won't slow the browser down, it just renders text fields with a little extra control.
  1097. # [21:40] <BrianBlakely> skylamer`: I think WebPutty is a really good idea. It's a spiffy editor + hosting + "FTP" application
  1098. # [21:41] <BrianBlakely> I'm not sure if the concept will catch with people, but I think it's innovative
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  1101. # [21:44] <dilvie> expertorbust: it sometimes gets the text wrong?
  1102. # [21:44] <dilvie> =)
  1103. # [21:45] <skylamer`> thiz remaining opec-source will be good, but i look at some thing to like 'free only for early adopters' :)
  1104. # [21:45] <ExpertOrBust> Thanks BrianBlakely & Divie
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  1120. # [22:07] <ShaunR> does html5 need a /> tag on things like <br>?
  1121. # [22:07] <skylamer`> no becauz in html 5 u dont use things like 'br's :)
  1122. # [22:08] <ShaunR> ok, what about input or <img> or etc..
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  1124. # [22:08] <skylamer`> it depends
  1125. # [22:09] <skylamer`> if you want to close it without to put some thing else in it make it with just />
  1126. # [22:10] <ShaunR> input and img last i checked could wrap anything...
  1127. # [22:10] <ShaunR> couldnt*
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  1129. # [22:10] <skylamer`> :D)
  1130. # [22:11] <skylamer`> just make it , i dont know the specs exactly ... look and then ask again if you ...
  1131. # [22:12] <dilvie> ShaunR: It's a good idea to always close your tags, just for maximum compatibility.
  1132. # [22:12] <ShaunR> ok, thanks
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  1134. # [22:12] <Ms2ger> Not really
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  1136. # [22:13] <Ms2ger> "self-closing" tags will cause you to write <script src="foo" /> at least once in your life
  1137. # [22:13] <Ms2ger> And then you'll stop doing it
  1138. # [22:13] <dilvie> Ms2ger: empty script tags are not allowed, even though they're common.
  1139. # [22:14] <dilvie> But that doesn't mean that you should abandon all compatibility with HTML.
  1140. # [22:14] <Ms2ger> Excuse me?
  1141. # [22:16] <dilvie> MS2ger: you're excused?
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  1149. # [22:19] <dilvie> Yeah, I'm a n00b. Empty script tags are allowed, but you can't self-close a non-void element.
  1150. # [22:24] <xonecas> html allows for absent closing tags (there are some tags that need them though, like script). Xhtml every tag must be closes wither with a self close /> or with a closing tag
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  1152. # [22:24] <xonecas> in html you can use simple attributes like <input type="checkbox" checked>
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  1154. # [22:25] <xonecas> in xhtml you have to write it all: <input type="checkbox" checked="checked" />
  1155. # [22:25] <Ms2ger> Not true
  1156. # [22:25] <Ms2ger> You can write checked="" in XHTML
  1157. # [22:25] <xonecas> Ms2ger: I didn't know that :-)
  1158. # [22:25] <Ms2ger> Now you know :)
  1159. # [22:25] <xonecas> but in the end you should use the correct syntax to match your doctype
  1160. # [22:26] <Ms2ger> Doctypes are irrelevant
  1161. # [22:26] <dilvie> html5 is compatible with xhtml on purpose.
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  1166. # [22:26] <xonecas> I wouldn't go as far as saying irrevelant
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  1168. # [22:27] <xonecas> dilvie: I'm hoping this doctype outlives version 5 and that backwards compatibility
  1169. # [22:27] <Ms2ger> They have exactly one purpose, and that's to keep you out of quirks mode in text/html
  1170. # [22:27] <dilvie> well, the new doctype is supposed to be the one doctype to rule them all.
  1171. # [22:27] <xonecas> dilvie: for a long time I hope :-)
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  1173. # [22:29] <dilvie> me too
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  1183. # [22:39] <paul_irish> jn: you there?
  1184. # [22:39] <paul_irish> newp
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  1224. # [23:29] <gavacho> pual_irish: you should sign up to speak at stackoverflow's Dev Days conf in sf
  1225. # [23:29] <gavacho> :)
  1226. # [23:29] <gavacho> imma be attending hehe
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The end :)