/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-07-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jul 21 00:00:01 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  7. # [00:03] <paul_irish> gavacho: right now i'm planning to speak at it
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  16. # [00:10] <gavacho> nice
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  18. # [00:10] <dilvie> sold out. );
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  29. # [00:16] <paul_irish_> bot-t: tell grantg you should follow https://twitter.com/#!/ilmarihei or something
  30. # [00:16] <bot-t> paul_irish_, Okay.
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  33. # [00:18] <dilvie> paul_irish: Where can I find which features of the HTML5 audio and video spec are supported by the current version of Chrome?
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  69. # [00:18] <dilvie> I know the whole try it and see philosophy, but I need a way to determine if I made a typo, or of it just isn't gonna happen. =)
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  209. # [04:00] <cuqa> heyho, whats the correct syntax? disabled="disabled" or disabled?
  210. # [04:02] <snover> depends if you are using xhtml dialect or html dialect
  211. # [04:02] <snover> xhtml former, html latter
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  228. # [04:39] <wtfman__> ok ty
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  264. # [05:59] <operator1> I don't understand how to have localStorage values persist after reload. Any help please....?
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  266. # [06:00] <operator1> can this be done in javascript and be very simple??
  267. # [06:04] <operator1> all the examples from the internet work great.... ONLINE! But, I really want to use this technology without connection to the web
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  279. # [06:27] <cypha> might be a ridiculous question, but can html5 replace ajax?
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  290. # [06:52] <gavacho> no
  291. # [06:52] <gavacho> they're not alternative technologies
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  295. # 06[07:01] * tw2113 wishes people got it out of their heads that html5 replaces X thinggggggggg
  296. # [07:01] <tw2113> thing*
  297. # [07:01] <tw2113> g key got stuck
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  323. # [08:18] <JonathanNeal> ahoy
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  342. # [09:02] <like-nooob> I'm testing my site. I was trying to use target in an href link to push content to an iFrame. Unfortunately Firefox and IE in my testing pop open a new window instead of updating the iframe content. Opera works brilliantly. Any thoughts?
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  418. # [11:02] <mneimne> hey guys i work in a telecommunication company we have a system built using .NET tech its all drag an drop and gui my suppervisor is thinking of porting this appliction to a web application using html5 and php is it possible
  419. # [11:02] <mneimne> ?
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  431. # [11:15] <mneimne> helooo
  432. # [11:15] <mneimne> anyone here ?
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  434. # [11:18] <dr0id> no, no-one
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  453. # [11:45] <beevi7> guys, i'm a frontend engineer studying business administration. now i'm looking for something i could write my bachelor thesis about. should be relevant to html5
  454. # [11:45] <beevi7> anyone here having more ideas than i? (0, in words: zero)
  455. # [11:46] <henrikkok> Maybe a bad start to those html5, if you have no ideas from start :-)
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  457. # [11:53] <beevi7> henrikkok i think the biggest problem is that i'm studying business administration, not computer science. so it must have something to do with "business" in any way.
  458. # [11:54] <wtfman__> with html5 you can do business websites
  459. # [11:54] <beevi7> i thought about writing something about the advantages of open web standards over proprietary solutions
  460. # [11:55] <jetienne_> beevi7: with a TODO list for mobile with jquery mobile
  461. # [11:56] <beevi7> what do you mean?
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  463. # [11:57] <jetienne_> beevi7: a TODO list is usefull for business. it is mobile so hype. and jquery mobile is simple to use and looks rather nice by default
  464. # [11:57] <jetienne_> http://jquerymobile.com/demos/1.0b1/
  465. # [11:57] <beevi7> that's true. but i dont think a jquery mobile todo list is the right topic to write a 60+ pages thesis about?!
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  467. # [11:57] <jetienne_> beevi7: up to you to see
  468. # [11:58] <jetienne_> large font + screenshot are good :)
  469. # [11:58] <beevi7> (although i love jquery and would also love to have something jquery related to write about)
  470. # [11:58] <beevi7> he he. the font size is given, unfortunately
  471. # [11:58] <beevi7> 10pt arial :/
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  473. # [12:01] <Kichael> can someone explain the <section> tags use case for me?
  474. # [12:01] <Kichael> please :)
  475. # [12:01] <simmerz> Hi, is there any way with an offline "HTML5" app of sending a file or set of data stored locally as an attachment via email in a mailto: link? Or am I in the wrong place to ask that question?
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  479. # [12:13] <x29a> simmerz: using jquery or $favouriteFramework, you could prepare a file in cache and send it with the right headers for the user to download it
  480. # [12:13] <x29a> thats the idea, i want to look into that as well
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  482. # [12:15] <simmerz> x29a: right, except if you don't want a backend server. don't think it's doable
  483. # [12:15] <simmerz> otherwise, yes
  484. # [12:16] <simmerz> x29a: your solution is much the same as required using ActionScript/Flash 9, which can't process the file itself, but can send and download data
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  487. # [12:20] <x29a> simmerz: i asked over in #jquery, lets see if they know a way
  488. # [12:20] <simmerz> x29a :)
  489. # [12:23] <x29a> simmerz: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6175421/how-can-i-generate-a-file-and-offer-it-for-download-in-plain-javascript and similar might help
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  494. # [12:24] <simmerz> x29a: ta
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  522. # [13:20] <noobie25> hi
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  563. # [15:03] <DannyButterman> Hi There. Is there a way to update two iframes in the same page, using a single form ?
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  568. # [15:10] <DannyButterman> someone ?
  569. # [15:11] <ericbarnes> probably have to use js for that
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  573. # [15:13] <OzDave_mbp> DannyButterman: http://www.dynamicdrive.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2529.html
  574. # [15:13] <OzDave_mbp> use your google foo more next time bloke ;)
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  579. # [15:20] <DannyButterman> OzDave_mbp: thank you. I've already looked for a solution using google, but to no avail.
  580. # [15:20] <OzDave_mbp> no worries mate
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  600. # [15:58] <dpy> hi guys
  601. # 02[15:58] * Quits: danj (~danj@s15372200.onlinehome-server.info) (Quit: Wake me up)
  602. # [15:58] <dpy> I'm confused by the output of the w3c validator for html5 (I know, it says it's experimental).
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  604. # [15:59] <dpy> I'm feeding it an html5 page that has: <div data-foo[0]="123"></div>
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  606. # [15:59] <dpy> it bombs on the data-* name, saying it must be an xml name
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  608. # [16:00] <dpy> this contradicts what I read on this draft: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/syntax.html#attributes-0
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  610. # [16:00] <OzDave_mbp> never seen a div used like that
  611. # [16:00] <dpy> Which basically says: anything goes, as long as it is unicode and not [\0"'>/=]
  612. # [16:01] <dpy> OzDave_mbp: question is, is it allowed by the standard
  613. # [16:01] <dpy> The whatwg page clearly says it is, the w3c validator, though experimental, seems ferm: it isn't
  614. # [16:01] <OzDave_mbp> <div class="blah" id ="blah"> div contents here</div>
  615. # [16:02] <OzDave_mbp> u are doing some sort of array in the div?
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  617. # [16:02] <dpy> I'm using straight brackets in the name, never mind the meaning
  618. # [16:02] <OzDave_mbp> an array called foo[0] with 1 pocket holding the value "123"
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  620. # [16:03] <OzDave_mbp> usually that would be reserved for another language like js etc
  621. # [16:03] <dpy> OzDave_mbp: you are coupling a meaning to what I just typed, please focus on the theoretical question
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  623. # [16:03] <OzDave_mbp> I clearly understand whats going on, do you?
  624. # [16:04] <dpy> is that whatwg authoritive in any way?
  625. # [16:05] <tbranyen> didn't they merge?
  626. # [16:05] <tbranyen> or something
  627. # [16:05] <OzDave_mbp> http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_div_test
  628. # [16:05] <dpy> OzDave_mbp: I understand that you think you understand how to interpret the data attribute, yes. I just want to prevent a discussion about why anyone should name a data-attribute as such
  629. # [16:05] <OzDave_mbp> one of those guys huh
  630. # [16:05] <OzDave_mbp> <div data-foo[0]="123">munted</div>
  631. # [16:05] <tbranyen> w3schools owns
  632. # [16:05] <tbranyen> best site on the net
  633. # [16:06] <tbranyen> i surf there all the time
  634. # [16:07] <dpy> what about the divtest? I don't see any validation results...
  635. # [16:09] <dpy> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/syntax.html#attributes-0
  636. # [16:09] <dpy> This seems more official
  637. # [16:10] <dpy> but the attribute text is an exact copy
  638. # [16:10] <dpy> ok, validator.w3c.org has a bug
  639. # 06[16:10] * dpy reports
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  642. # [16:16] <Ms2ger> w3schools is a horrible site
  643. # [16:16] <Ms2ger> I'd be surprised if half of what they say is true
  644. # [16:17] <OzDave_mbp> yeah we should stop and take your advice super random guy
  645. # [16:17] <OzDave_mbp> ircxperts lol
  646. # [16:17] <Ms2ger> Have a look at w3fools.com, other random guy
  647. # [16:17] <OzDave_mbp> love your site idork.com
  648. # [16:17] <Michael> nimbu had a good reference site
  649. # [16:18] <Ms2ger> Not mine, it's paul_irish_'s IIRC
  650. # [16:18] <Michael> What about htmldog.com?
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  652. # [16:18] <Michael> Just saw it
  653. # [16:19] <Michael> Nevermind. It's not very comprehensive
  654. # [16:19] <Michael> But yeah w3schools is a lacky site
  655. # [16:20] <nimbu> oh what Michael?
  656. # [16:20] <nimbu> caniuse.com ?
  657. # [16:20] <Michael> No that's badass but no
  658. # [16:20] <Michael> You had an html reference site much better than w3schools I thought
  659. # [16:20] <Michael> Maybe it was someone else
  660. # [16:20] <nimbu> it was MDN afaik
  661. # 03[16:20] * Joins: Jackneill (~Jackneill@unaffiliated/jackneill)
  662. # [16:21] <nimbu> ?g Mozilla developer network javascript reference
  663. # [16:21] <Michael> Hmm
  664. # [16:21] <bot-t> nimbu, JavaScript Reference - MDN Docs - Mozilla Developer Network - https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference
  665. # [16:21] <nimbu> well there is the opera web standards curriculum but thats more to learn about webdev if you are a beginner
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  668. # [16:24] <Michael> I can't remember blah
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  678. # [16:38] <dpy> ok, what a mess
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  683. # [16:39] <dpy> validator.w3 says: for all you html5 validator bugs go to validator.nu. And there they don't have an obvious validator component in bugzilla... So I'm left with "subscribing to a mailing list"
  684. # [16:40] <dpy> for reporting a mere bug
  685. # [16:40] <nimbu> dpy: what is the bug?
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  690. # [16:41] <dpy> nimbu: validator.nu is giving false errors for data-attribute names
  691. # [16:42] <dpy> for example data-[="foo" is valid
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  693. # [16:42] <Ms2ger> That would be HTML5 Schema, I guess
  694. # [16:42] <dpy> data-$="something"
  695. # [16:42] <dpy> is valid
  696. # [16:43] <dpy> I would expect HTML5 Schema to be about bugs about in schema?
  697. # [16:43] <dpy> -about
  698. # [16:43] <dpy> (2nd)
  699. # [16:43] <Ms2ger> Or maybe Non-schema reporters
  700. # [16:43] <Ms2ger> checkers*
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  702. # [16:45] <dpy> http://validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fjsbin.com%2Fetabil%2F3
  703. # [16:46] <nimbu> dpy: you could also post in #whatwg
  704. # [16:46] <dpy> It says it is using a schema for validation: Info: Using the schema for HTML5+ARIA, SVG 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 (experimental).
  705. # [16:46] <dpy> irc channel?
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  709. # [16:47] <Ms2ger> I'd just file in General
  710. # [16:49] <shepazu> data-foo[0]="123" is interesting, I wouldn't have thought that would be legal, but it's a neat idea
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  717. # [17:00] <dpy> shepazu: it isn't allowed apparently
  718. # [17:00] <dpy> while the syntax part of the spec allows it, it's the semantics part that prohibits it
  719. # [17:02] <OzDave_mbp> http://imgur.com/YWvDA
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  760. # [17:56] <HugoDaniel> hi
  761. # [17:56] <HugoDaniel> can i include a <nav> inside the main document <header> tag ?
  762. # [17:56] <HugoDaniel> does it make sense ?
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  764. # [17:57] <OzDave_mbp> why would you want to put public content into the header?
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  768. # [17:58] <HugoDaniel> OzDave_mbp: aint the <header> tag used to define the "header" of a section in html5 ?
  769. # [17:58] <OzDave_mbp> ahh mt bad its 2 am here time for me to down tools
  770. # [17:58] <OzDave_mbp> my*
  771. # [17:59] <OzDave_mbp> I read <head>
  772. # [17:59] <nimbu> HugoDaniel: yes you can
  773. # 03[17:59] * Parts: OzDave_mbp (~OzDave_mb@27-33-43-79.static.tpgi.com.au)
  774. # [17:59] <nimbu> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/sections.html#the-nav-element HugoDaniel
  775. # [17:59] <nimbu> see the e.g.
  776. # [18:01] <HugoDaniel> :D
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  779. # [18:02] <HugoDaniel> cool, thanks nimbu :)
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  781. # [18:05] <kywebguy> HugoDaniel: I personally would not
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  783. # [18:05] <kywebguy> HugoDaniel: what will you achieve by doing so?
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  788. # [18:08] <HugoDaniel> i want to do something like the google top bar. but with my company logo on the left side, and the links for each section of the company (which are independent) there
  789. # [18:09] <nimbu> HugoDaniel: please use
  790. # [18:09] <nimbu> nbg
  791. # [18:09] <nimbu> no big deal even
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  793. # [18:09] <kywebguy> HugoDaniel: im sorry i misunderstood i thought you meant your main navigation. I would say yes that it is ok
  794. # [18:09] <kywebguy> HugoDaniel: lol nvmd that last statement
  795. # [18:10] <kywebguy> HugoDaniel: couldnt you achieve that layout using css without putting the main navigation in the header?
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  801. # [18:14] <HugoDaniel> another thing...
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  803. # [18:14] <HugoDaniel> ...what kind of event attributes can i use in a <a> tag ?
  804. # [18:15] <HugoDaniel> is it okey if i override <a> default behaviour when clicked to call my JS function ?
  805. # [18:15] <nimbu> ya
  806. # [18:15] <HugoDaniel> i guess that would raise the issue of updating the browser history
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  808. # [18:16] <phishbot> yes
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  810. # [18:21] <HugoDaniel> i dont quite like the w3schools website
  811. # [18:21] <HugoDaniel> where can i read the html5 spec properly ?
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  814. # [18:22] <nimbu> HugoDaniel: w3schools has nothing to do with the spec
  815. # [18:22] <nimbu> HugoDaniel: read the spec at http://whatwg.org/html
  816. # [18:23] <HugoDaniel> ah ok
  817. # [18:23] <HugoDaniel> thanks
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  824. # [18:28] <louisremi> Does anyone know what version of Chrome is this Baidu browser based on? http://liulanqi.baidu.com/index.html
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  826. # [18:29] <HugoDaniel> <a onclick="ahah()">Forms</a> <- is this ok ?
  827. # [18:30] <nimbu> HugoDaniel: preferably you would use <script></script> and then attach events that way rather than inline.
  828. # [18:31] <HugoDaniel> oh, i have a script like this: <script src="code.js"></script></body>
  829. # [18:31] <HugoDaniel> right at the bottom of the </body>
  830. # [18:32] <HugoDaniel> i dont know how to attach events in any other way
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  832. # [18:32] <HugoDaniel> where can i read about that ?
  833. # [18:32] <nimbu> ?g Mozilla developer network javascript reference
  834. # [18:32] <bot-t> nimbu, JavaScript Reference - MDN Docs - Mozilla Developer Network - https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference
  835. # [18:32] <HugoDaniel> yes, i know that one
  836. # [18:32] <HugoDaniel> im reading that one also
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  839. # [18:38] <HugoDaniel> i see :) cool
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  848. # [18:45] <kywebguy> With the nav element, is there any reason to continue using ul to markup navigations?
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  856. # [18:54] <BrianBlakely> kywebguy: What goes inside the <nav>? The pattern I've seen is <nav><ul></ul></nav>
  857. # [18:55] <BrianBlakely> Where the <nav> is really just a signal that says "Hey, the elements inside here are for navigation; they're not any old list"
  858. # [18:55] <kywebguy> BrianBlakely: well I was wondering if the ul could be done away with. <nav> <a>home</a></nav>
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  864. # [18:57] <BrianBlakely> kywebguy: Well, ul indicates that all its list items should be taken together, and they rely on each-other for full meaning
  865. # [18:57] <kywebguy> BrianBlakely: ok so nav does not do that, thank you
  866. # [18:59] <BrianBlakely> Nope, it doesn't. You could have <p> inside there, but because it's inside a <nav>, it's indicated that the <p> is intended for some navigational purpose, unlike <p>s outside of the <nav>
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  881. # [19:10] <Michael> Any news on the script "type" attribute and whether it is officially deprecated, or what value to use?
  882. # [19:11] <Michael> I'm tired of htmlunit warnings that the author says "just ignore them"
  883. # [19:11] <nimbu> yes just ignore is what everyone recommends.
  884. # [19:11] <nimbu> so do we in h5bp
  885. # [19:11] <Michael> but it's ugh @ log output
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  887. # [19:12] <nimbu> ignore log output
  888. # [19:12] <nimbu> :)P
  889. # [19:12] <Michael> lol
  890. # [19:12] <Michael> I guess I'll IO::popen and filter those lines
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  1068. # [22:55] <WILDsharustar> WILDsandy: HI!
  1069. # [22:55] <paul_irish>
  1070. # [22:55] <paul_irish> http://www.browserscope.org/evolution?category=usertest_agt1YS1wcm9maWxlcnINCxIEVGVzdBib2KQGDA&v=top-d
  1071. # [22:56] <WILDsandy> hello
  1072. # [22:56] <WILDsharustar> hi :)
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  1087. # [23:34] <tomh> hey, anyone here knows if you can safely replace jquery with zepto for jquery mobile?
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  1092. # [23:40] <danheberden> unrelated question, anyone here knows if you can safely replace the i7 2.3GHz processor in a macbookpro with a 486 processor?
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  1094. # [23:40] <standup75> short answer is no. but you actually really need to check what subset of jquery you're using. I remeber trying to switch from jquery to another lightweight framework for a webapp, but I ended up comming back to jquery, cause I was using many functions that were not available. and I did not have the time to refactor everything
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  1111. # Session Close: Fri Jul 22 00:00:00 2011

The end :)